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The Strange Death of Shane Todd · Conspiracy! The Show

0:10
Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show, the world's most trusted conspiracy
0:16
Speaker 1: dary podcast, with your hosts Adam Todd Brown and Olivia Hidar.
0:32
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to an upbeat, good time an episode
0:37
Speaker 2: of Conspiracy The Show. I'm Adam Todd Brown. Who are you?
0:40
Speaker 3: I'm Olivia Hidar.
0:42
Speaker 2: And that makes us your hosts. Olivia, how's it going?
0:45
Speaker 3: You know, it goes, it goes. It's been a it's
0:48
Speaker 3: been a gray week.
0:49
Speaker 2: It's been it's been a gray week. It's been a
0:53
Speaker 2: while since we recorded. We intended to record this last week,
0:59
Speaker 2: and in between recordings went out into the other room
1:02
Speaker 2: of the studio and found sewage dripping from the ceiling, which,
1:08
Speaker 2: uh oh, what a money pit. That place has been
1:11
Speaker 2: good times.
1:12
Speaker 4: I really am glad that I did not taste it,
1:16
Speaker 4: which was my first impulse where I go out there
1:21
Speaker 4: and there's water dripping from the ceiling and onto electronic equipment,
1:26
Speaker 4: and so we're both kind of suddenly very frantic here, right,
1:32
Speaker 4: and I'm like, what is this?
1:35
Speaker 3: Is this even water? Maybe it's cool.
1:37
Speaker 4: End because we've had several HVAC issues at the studio.
1:43
Speaker 5: And so I almost did and I'm not an expert
1:46
Speaker 5: in anything, So I don't know why, but I almost
1:50
Speaker 5: did the little put my finger in a thing and taste.
1:53
Speaker 3: I did not.
1:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you didn't do that yet.
1:56
Speaker 3: I don't know what ended up being sewage.
1:58
Speaker 2: I don't know what good ops and it could have been.
2:00
Speaker 2: It's not like it was going to be sprite or something.
2:02
Speaker 3: It was going to be either free on or water.
2:05
Speaker 2: Right, theyre you gotta snort that, right, Yeah, exactly if
2:08
Speaker 2: my understanding of using free on as a drug is correct. Yeah,
2:14
Speaker 2: how desperate do you gotta be? There's an R and
2:16
Speaker 2: B singer from the nineties I know who died that way.
2:21
Speaker 4: I remember that that was a whole scare when I
2:25
Speaker 4: was in school for like for a few weeks.
2:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never got into it myself.
2:32
Speaker 3: Now you didn't. Never huff.
2:35
Speaker 2: No, just not my thing, you know. I know it
2:38
Speaker 2: makes me a bit of a square.
2:39
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, I just stick to weed.
2:41
Speaker 2: I wear the label proudly. So we're talking about.
2:45
Speaker 3: Some stuff this week.
2:47
Speaker 2: This is a story I had never heard of. I
2:50
Speaker 2: don't want to I don't want to spill the beans
2:52
Speaker 2: on where I found it, but I told you I
2:54
Speaker 2: found a pretty interesting resource. For potential podcast topics in
3:02
Speaker 2: the future, and included in that resource was the highly
3:07
Speaker 2: suspicious twenty twelve death of an American man named Shane Todd.
3:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had not heard of this.
3:15
Speaker 2: His last name is misspelled. It's spelled with two d's.
3:18
Speaker 3: Oh, which you mean just in general misspelled?
3:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like my middle name is Todd, and it's
3:25
Speaker 2: Todd with one dath which makes it proper?
3:28
Speaker 3: Doesn't it mean something different two d's.
3:31
Speaker 2: It means death with one d right, I know that.
3:34
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know what it means with two d's.
3:37
Speaker 2: Why would I care?
3:38
Speaker 3: Means life could be which would be interesting.
3:41
Speaker 2: Oh the irony there? Oh man. Yeah, this is relatively
3:47
Speaker 2: recent news, but it's also already on the verge of
3:50
Speaker 2: being forgotten forever.
3:52
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean it's ten years old at this point,
3:55
Speaker 3: so yeah.
3:55
Speaker 2: But still, I mean in the big scheme of things.
3:58
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, Like in the GLI, isn't.
4:00
Speaker 2: Our entire existence just a blip on the radar?
4:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, less than less than a day in
4:07
Speaker 4: the geologic calendar, Like.
4:09
Speaker 2: We're not even here. So yeah. A lot of the
4:13
Speaker 2: background on this comes from an investigation done by the
4:18
Speaker 2: Financial Times, which we'll link to. We'll link to all
4:22
Speaker 2: of the articles that we reference here, but that Financial
4:25
Speaker 2: Times article really lays everything out. It's very well done
4:29
Speaker 2: and very long.
4:32
Speaker 3: It'll take you a morning. You know, you got to
4:35
Speaker 3: read it.
4:36
Speaker 2: Yeah. He was living in Singapore at the time he died,
4:39
Speaker 2: and he worked for a company called im E aka
4:44
Speaker 2: the Institute of micro Electronics. Joined the company in December
4:48
Speaker 2: twenty ten, shortly after graduating college, and his stint with
4:53
Speaker 2: IME lasted for about eighteen months, at which point he
4:56
Speaker 2: accepted a job with an American firm and was planning
5:00
Speaker 2: to move back to the US. On his last day
5:03
Speaker 2: of work, he had lunch at a steakhouse with several
5:06
Speaker 2: colleagues and then signed off for the day at five
5:09
Speaker 2: sixteen pm by sending an email that said, thanks for
5:12
Speaker 2: help and make my time at IME a memorable experience.
5:16
Speaker 2: I wish you all the best of luck in the future.
5:18
Speaker 2: Please keep in touch. And so after that, his girlfriend
5:22
Speaker 2: in Singapore, a woman named Shirley Sarmiento, who I believe
5:25
Speaker 2: is a nurse. I don't know why that matters, but
5:27
Speaker 2: I recall from the article she was a nurse. She
5:30
Speaker 2: expected to hear from him later that day, and she
5:33
Speaker 2: did not, and she didn't hear from him the next day.
5:36
Speaker 2: So then she went to his apartment, which what a
5:39
Speaker 2: patient girlfriend. She waited until Sunday.
5:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, she gives him his space.
5:45
Speaker 2: That's nice something to be said for that, that's for sure, exactly.
5:48
Speaker 2: And so she finally on Sunday heads over to his
5:52
Speaker 2: apartment and she gets there, she finds the door unlocked,
5:56
Speaker 2: and inside she finds Shane Todd hanging from a bathroom door.
6:00
Speaker 2: There's a chair on the floor approximately five feet away
6:03
Speaker 2: from where his body was hanging, and he was dead.
6:07
Speaker 2: This happened one week before he was due to return
6:10
Speaker 2: to the United States. Singapore police ruled this a suicide
6:15
Speaker 2: right away, which means they didn't investigate. And I know
6:19
Speaker 2: it's a weird comparison, but that detail reminds me a
6:22
Speaker 2: lot of Kurt Cobain, sure, because that's the same thing.
6:28
Speaker 2: At the time. In Seattle, they had a law or
6:32
Speaker 2: a rule within the Seattle PDE that if any regular
6:37
Speaker 2: ass beat cop determined that an incident was a suicide,
6:41
Speaker 2: they never sent any murder investigators or homicide detectives anything
6:45
Speaker 2: like that. So great that kind of becomes the sticking
6:50
Speaker 2: point here. They immediately ruled it a suicide and never
6:55
Speaker 2: did any investigation. I mean they eventually do an investigation.
6:58
Speaker 3: Sure takes a while.
6:59
Speaker 2: And what the Singapore police end up telling Shane Todd's
7:03
Speaker 2: family is that he had drilled holes into his bathroom wall,
7:07
Speaker 2: bolted in a pulley, then slipped a black strap through
7:11
Speaker 2: the pulley, wrapped it around the toilet several times, and
7:14
Speaker 2: then tethered the strap to his neck and jumped from
7:17
Speaker 2: its chair. God, that's elaborate.
7:20
Speaker 4: It's very like they're really saying he really wanted to
7:25
Speaker 4: kill himself. He was dedicated, yeau, he built some route
7:30
Speaker 4: Goldberg contraption.
7:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he had to like go out and buy
7:34
Speaker 2: stuff for this? Do they have do they know where
7:36
Speaker 2: he got it? I wonder if that came up in
7:38
Speaker 2: the investigation?
7:39
Speaker 3: What investigation?
7:40
Speaker 2: Yeah? Good point, good point burn. So, upon receiving this news,
7:46
Speaker 2: Shane's parents, Mary and Rick made their way to Singapore,
7:50
Speaker 2: along with Shane's two younger brothers, John and Dylan. Or
7:54
Speaker 2: maybe it's Dilon. I hope it's Dilon. I hope this.
7:57
Speaker 2: I hope this family pronounces it.
7:59
Speaker 3: You hope his name is Dialon?
8:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the rapper from making the band. Of course,
8:04
Speaker 2: of course you get the reference. Let's just move on, of.
8:08
Speaker 3: Course, yest's let's move on.
8:10
Speaker 2: So when they were allowed to see Shane's apartment, they
8:13
Speaker 2: were shocked by what they did not find. For one thing,
8:18
Speaker 2: there were no holes in the bathroom wall.
8:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems important.
8:22
Speaker 2: It seems Yeah, if the police explanation is that he
8:26
Speaker 2: drilled holes in the wall to install an elaborate pulley system, Yeah,
8:31
Speaker 2: where are those holes? And was the pulley still there?
8:34
Speaker 2: I'm assuming they would have taken that down too, but.
8:37
Speaker 3: It feels like the family would get the pulley.
8:39
Speaker 2: Yes, that actually becomes a big sticking point later. Also, yeah,
8:46
Speaker 2: there were no bolts, there were no screws, right, the
8:49
Speaker 2: toilet was in a completely different location in the bathroom
8:52
Speaker 2: than they'd initially been told. And again, no crime scene tape,
8:58
Speaker 2: no dusting for fingerprints, nothing at all to indicate an
9:01
Speaker 2: investigation had happened. And so beyond the scene in the bathroom,
9:05
Speaker 2: Shane Todd's family and an investigation by the Financial Times
9:10
Speaker 2: both say his apartment just look like someone in the
9:13
Speaker 2: middle of a move. Yeah, boxes were packed, laundry was
9:16
Speaker 2: being done, He wrote out price tags for his furniture
9:19
Speaker 2: that he was trying to sell all this normal stuff
9:22
Speaker 2: in laundry.
9:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you do before you kill yourself.
9:27
Speaker 2: And I know there's people who are going.
9:28
Speaker 3: To say, of course there are always exceptions.
9:31
Speaker 2: Yes, and that I know it's not there's no standard
9:34
Speaker 2: operating procedure for suicide, obviously, and I do accept that.
9:40
Speaker 2: But also people who would argue that have to accept it.
9:42
Speaker 2: Sometimes people just get murdered, and sometimes people try to
9:46
Speaker 2: make it look like suicide or an accident when they
9:50
Speaker 2: do it.
9:50
Speaker 3: Look, we've all seen Michael Clayton. We know what happens.
9:53
Speaker 2: That movie's so good.
9:55
Speaker 3: It's one of the great American.
9:57
Speaker 2: Films of rips.
10:00
Speaker 3: It's amazing.
10:03
Speaker 2: So one thing that was weird and that I still
10:06
Speaker 2: find weird. If the police are genuine in their opinion
10:11
Speaker 2: that this was a suicide, they seized all of his
10:13
Speaker 2: phones and computers. And on the one hand, sure they
10:19
Speaker 2: did that so they could look for suicide notes. But
10:23
Speaker 2: on the other hand, when they found those notes, they
10:26
Speaker 2: did not return those computers or those phones. They just
10:30
Speaker 2: gave the family and Shane's girlfriend printouts of these alleged
10:36
Speaker 2: suicide notes.
10:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I'm gonna say.
10:41
Speaker 2: It, sure as shit does. While they were at the apartment,
10:44
Speaker 2: some of Shane's friends dropped by, and one of the
10:48
Speaker 2: things that they all said, and this is also important later,
10:52
Speaker 2: especially when we talk about the suicide notes, is that
10:56
Speaker 2: he was very happy to be going back to the
10:59
Speaker 2: United States because he hated his fucking job.
11:03
Speaker 3: That seemed to be everyone's overwhelming impression.
11:06
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, his friends say that, his girlfriend says it.
11:10
Speaker 2: His mom talks about having conversations with him where he
11:14
Speaker 2: was uneasy about his job. So if nothing else at
11:17
Speaker 2: the time of his death, he definitely had something to
11:20
Speaker 2: look forward to, which was getting out of Singapore. Another
11:24
Speaker 2: important detail this is movie shit, This could be a movie.
11:28
Speaker 2: Probably On the way out of Shane's apartment, his mom,
11:32
Speaker 2: Mary notices a little device that she thinks is like
11:36
Speaker 2: a speaker or something, and she asks if it's maybe
11:39
Speaker 2: something the kids can use, and her husband is like,
11:43
Speaker 2: just throw it in the bag, we'll worry about it later.
11:47
Speaker 2: And they did that. They tossed it in the bag
11:51
Speaker 2: they left, And that becomes really important because if you're
11:54
Speaker 2: wondering why someone would kill Shane Todd, the answer is
11:58
Speaker 2: on that device. His mom took with him. Yeah, because
12:02
Speaker 2: it turns out it was not a speaker. It was
12:04
Speaker 2: an external hard drive and it contained a backup of
12:09
Speaker 2: all his files from his work at ime. And it
12:12
Speaker 2: turns out shortly after being hired, he was put in
12:16
Speaker 2: charge of a five man team focused on GA N devices,
12:22
Speaker 2: which are devices that run on a substance called gallium nitride.
12:27
Speaker 2: There is an explainer video in the article we'll link to,
12:30
Speaker 2: but Olivia, please five minutes on gallium nitride and how
12:34
Speaker 2: it works.
12:36
Speaker 4: So gallium is a non toxic liquid metal similar to mercury,
12:42
Speaker 4: and I'm assuming nitride refers to some sort of nitrogen compound,
12:48
Speaker 4: and that is.
12:48
Speaker 3: The extent of my chemical knowledge.
12:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, if anyone wants to really really sciencey explanation, just
12:55
Speaker 2: watch the video. But from what I can glean from it,
12:59
Speaker 2: you know that thing where all our devices need silicon
13:02
Speaker 2: to run, This is like silicon on steroids. It can
13:07
Speaker 2: withstand more heat and just more abuse than regular silicon.
13:13
Speaker 2: So it makes it, you know, valuable in developing technology
13:16
Speaker 2: both for civilian and military use. Yeah, which seems to
13:22
Speaker 2: be the concern here. Shane was working on gallium nitride
13:27
Speaker 2: projects and that's not anything scandalous. What scandalous is who
13:31
Speaker 2: he was working on that project with the hard drive
13:34
Speaker 2: his mom removed from his apartment showed he was working
13:37
Speaker 2: on a joint project between I AM and America's absolute
13:42
Speaker 2: mortal enemy in the tech space, Huaweih. Yeah, are you
13:46
Speaker 2: familiar with the Huawei saga?
13:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm broadly familiar.
13:51
Speaker 4: I mean I don't have an intimate you know, I'll
13:53
Speaker 4: know all of the details about everything, but like I'm
13:55
Speaker 4: familiar with their phones.
13:57
Speaker 3: I had a TV ah Huawei TV once spy much, Yeah,
14:02
Speaker 3: I do.
14:02
Speaker 2: Actually, Yeah, the United States versus Huawei would be an
14:09
Speaker 2: interesting episode in and out of itself.
14:13
Speaker 4: I mean there's there's a lot going on there and
14:15
Speaker 4: it's still ongoing.
14:16
Speaker 2: So yes, yeah, we basically kidnapped their CEO.
14:22
Speaker 3: Yeah weird, but yeah.
14:25
Speaker 2: One of the reasons we're so scared of Huawei is
14:28
Speaker 2: because we have our suspicions that they are directly tied
14:33
Speaker 2: to the Chinese government and that their equipment, especially their
14:38
Speaker 2: five G equipment, is going to be used to spy
14:41
Speaker 2: on us. Yeah, And at first it seemed like we
14:43
Speaker 2: were kind of alone in that, but now other countries
14:47
Speaker 2: are starting to get on board with that idea, like
14:50
Speaker 2: I saw Portugal recently has weighed maybe banning Huawei's five
14:55
Speaker 2: G equipment.
14:56
Speaker 4: I mean, I assume that there's probably some sort of
15:00
Speaker 4: connection there, in the same way that there's a connection
15:02
Speaker 4: between the US government and tech groups like Google and ample.
15:07
Speaker 3: Like.
15:07
Speaker 4: It's not like this is classic US throwing stones and
15:11
Speaker 4: glasshouses in my opinion.
15:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, I for one thing, I'm pretty sure the reason
15:16
Speaker 2: we don't want China putting five G equipment in our
15:20
Speaker 2: country is the same reason we don't want China running
15:23
Speaker 2: TikTok in our country. It's because we want to do
15:26
Speaker 2: the spying right, and like with TikTok, we want to
15:30
Speaker 2: do the mental experiments on our children through our own
15:33
Speaker 2: social media apps. We don't want China coming here and
15:36
Speaker 2: doing that to our kids. And yeah, I don't doubt
15:40
Speaker 2: that there's some validity to what the US says about Huawei.
15:44
Speaker 2: And even then it could just be fucking I've been
15:47
Speaker 2: beat over the heads so hard with that propaganda.
15:51
Speaker 4: I mean maybe, but like again, I really do think
15:54
Speaker 4: it's more just it's probably true in the same way that.
15:58
Speaker 3: It's true for the US in so many ways. And
16:01
Speaker 3: so because wahweh.
16:02
Speaker 2: Is still huge. I looked it up. There's still the
16:04
Speaker 2: number three smartphone maker in the world.
16:07
Speaker 3: They're they're massive, man.
16:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, And here's the thing. Back when this story first
16:12
Speaker 2: started gaining steam in the US, the Huawei versus US thing,
16:16
Speaker 2: that was my thought was, oh, well, I bet the
16:19
Speaker 2: US government doesn't want that because they can't spy on
16:22
Speaker 2: me with that. So I bought a Huawei phone in Olivia.
16:25
Speaker 2: I fucking loved it. It was one of my favorite
16:28
Speaker 2: phones I've ever had.
16:30
Speaker 4: You've definitely told me about your Huawei experience, and I
16:33
Speaker 4: think it sounds great.
16:35
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's tough.
16:37
Speaker 4: We've kind of settled on a reel on a format
16:40
Speaker 4: for the smartphone, and as long as you're kind of
16:42
Speaker 4: hitting a lot of those boxes, yeah, have a good time.
16:45
Speaker 3: That's why Android is so good.
16:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, and huaweih it felt like an iPhone but it
16:51
Speaker 2: ran on Android. Yeah, Oh it was not. And it
16:55
Speaker 2: was cheap as shit. I think I've made two hundred
16:57
Speaker 2: and ninety nine dollars for it.
16:58
Speaker 3: Yeah.
17:04
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, this is Adam, host of the podcast you're
17:08
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17:10
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18:04
Speaker 2: we love you. Let's get back to the show. So anyway,
18:14
Speaker 2: the files on Shane Todd's hard drive showed he was
18:17
Speaker 2: working on a joint project between IME and Huawei to
18:21
Speaker 2: develop an amplifier device powered by gallium nitride. And again,
18:26
Speaker 2: that sounds innocent enough, but those devices have both civilian
18:30
Speaker 2: and military applications. So because he's working with Huawei, just
18:35
Speaker 2: by extension, our thought is going to be Oh, he's
18:37
Speaker 2: working with Chinese government.
18:39
Speaker 3: Sure, or they're involved in some capacity.
18:42
Speaker 2: Right, And so, as part of their investigation, The Financial
18:46
Speaker 2: Times showed Shane Todd's files to a guy named Robert
18:50
Speaker 2: York who was a professor of electrical and computer engineering
18:54
Speaker 2: at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and he said
18:57
Speaker 2: it would be quote unnerving but not surprising end quote
19:01
Speaker 2: if Huawei was working on gallium nitride technology, and said
19:04
Speaker 2: that it could be used for a number of military
19:06
Speaker 2: applications high powered radar, electronic warfare, including signal jamming, and
19:12
Speaker 2: even potentially some weapons. Sure, the signal jamming thing is interesting.
19:16
Speaker 3: Yeah.
19:17
Speaker 2: Do you remember when the Navy's seventh Fleet, which is
19:21
Speaker 2: like the most prestigious of the Navy fleets, we're having
19:26
Speaker 2: all of these issues with like mishaps during training and
19:32
Speaker 2: accidents and shit that, if I recall correctly, was blamed
19:37
Speaker 2: on signal jamming by China.
19:41
Speaker 3: Yeah. I only vaguely remember that. I do.
19:44
Speaker 4: I kind of know what you're talking about, but I
19:46
Speaker 4: can't remember it very well.
19:48
Speaker 2: And this is all twenty twelve that we're talking about.
19:51
Speaker 2: And I believe the seventh Fleet stuff was closer to
19:54
Speaker 2: like twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, So maybe China got it done.
19:59
Speaker 3: Maybe, who knows.
20:00
Speaker 2: Shane's job was to find the necessary equipment to conduct
20:04
Speaker 2: this research, and he ends up going through a publicly
20:07
Speaker 2: traded company based in New York called Vico. He flew
20:11
Speaker 2: out to New York to work out the deal and
20:13
Speaker 2: learn up on their equipment, and according to people who
20:17
Speaker 2: knew him, he came back from this meeting very concerned.
20:21
Speaker 2: He talked to his mom around this time and said
20:23
Speaker 2: he was working with Ime on a project with a
20:27
Speaker 2: Chinese company. Did not name the company. They didn't find
20:29
Speaker 2: that out until they found this hard drive that it
20:32
Speaker 2: was Huawei. And he said in the meetings they would
20:35
Speaker 2: ask him really technical questions that would relate to like
20:38
Speaker 2: military type stuff, and he would answer them, and then
20:42
Speaker 2: everyone in the room would start speaking Mandarin. He said
20:45
Speaker 2: it felt like they were intentionally trying to exclude him.
20:50
Speaker 3: Yeah.
20:51
Speaker 2: Probably, He told his mom he felt he was being
20:53
Speaker 2: asked to compromise American security and somehow, I still don't
20:57
Speaker 2: think the American government is the one who killed him.
21:00
Speaker 3: No, they would be lower on They wouldn't be my top.
21:04
Speaker 2: Choice probably right, But we'll get there. Yeah, he at
21:08
Speaker 2: this point was so concerned. He told his mom, I'm
21:11
Speaker 2: going to call you every week, and if you don't
21:14
Speaker 2: hear from me for a week, call the American embassy.
21:17
Speaker 2: So he was stressed. He was very stressed out, so
21:21
Speaker 2: much so that his mom said it turned him religious,
21:25
Speaker 2: which is an interesting twist. Yeah, his girlfriend recalled him
21:29
Speaker 2: saying that quote. There were things he had done that
21:32
Speaker 2: could get him in trouble with the US government. But
21:35
Speaker 2: there's an interesting twist here in that the equipment he
21:38
Speaker 2: ends up buying from this Vico company required an export
21:43
Speaker 2: license from the US Commerce Department, and they got that
21:47
Speaker 2: license right, So the US at least knew a little
21:50
Speaker 2: bit about what he was doing and wasn't obviously that concerned.
21:55
Speaker 4: Sure, I mean, yeah, I have to imagine that. Yeah,
21:59
Speaker 4: that seems like yeah.
22:02
Speaker 2: And so if it was the US government that was upset,
22:05
Speaker 2: it feels like that trouble would have come a little
22:08
Speaker 2: sooner than it did because he was obviously on our radar. Granted,
22:13
Speaker 2: this is the US government. The only thing that works
22:17
Speaker 2: about it is like our bombs. Basically, other than that
22:21
Speaker 2: kind of a fucking nightmare, I don't know what kind
22:23
Speaker 2: of green screen font CRT terminal keeping track of this
22:29
Speaker 2: shit on right within the depths of the US government.
22:33
Speaker 3: But it's printed out on matrix paper.
22:36
Speaker 2: And yeah, could be that too. If I had to guess,
22:40
Speaker 2: I would say it was something that happened at that
22:43
Speaker 2: steakhouse Goodbye lunch did him in, because yes, he did
22:47
Speaker 2: briefly see a psychiatrist in the weeks before his death,
22:52
Speaker 2: and that can point in the suicide explanation direction. But again,
22:57
Speaker 2: everyone says he was mostly just happy to be leave.
23:00
Speaker 2: And then he gets some really good news at that
23:02
Speaker 2: going away party lunch with his coworkers, he mentions that
23:06
Speaker 2: he'd accepted a new job with a company called neu Voutronics,
23:11
Speaker 2: a US research firm that works with the US Defense
23:15
Speaker 2: Department and NASA. Now, if we're looking for motive for
23:19
Speaker 2: someone to kill Shane Todd, I think that's it.
23:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, look like I don't want to victim blame, but
23:26
Speaker 4: like maybe have like a buffer job between your defense
23:29
Speaker 4: contractor positions, you know, like maybe like go work at
23:34
Speaker 4: like a big lots or something, subway subway, be a
23:39
Speaker 4: sandwich artist for a minute and then and then go
23:42
Speaker 4: on to the next contractor.
23:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a risky choice, and again, yeah, you
23:48
Speaker 2: don't want to victim blame, but also maybe just like
23:51
Speaker 2: and keep that news, keep that news under wraps.
23:53
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm obviously like I would never suggest that. Yeah,
23:58
Speaker 4: it's just funny.
23:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I do think that would be your motive
24:03
Speaker 2: if another government was working on something that they didn't
24:08
Speaker 2: want the United States to know about. First of all,
24:10
Speaker 2: didn't work with a US fucking scientist on it. Also,
24:15
Speaker 2: this guy was really good, like he was at one
24:17
Speaker 2: point an article described him as a doctor of gan devices,
24:23
Speaker 2: Like he got a doctorate just in those, which that's
24:28
Speaker 2: got to be a limited talent pool to draw from.
24:32
Speaker 4: Well maybe, I mean, if they're that useful then maybe not.
24:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, who knows. But yeah, he lets everyone know he's
24:38
Speaker 2: about to go work for a US company that works
24:41
Speaker 2: with the United States military. And if this was a
24:43
Speaker 2: foreign government working on this project for their military, I
24:46
Speaker 2: could see them wanting him killed. So he didn't take
24:51
Speaker 2: what he learned back to the United States. Yeah, that
24:54
Speaker 2: might have been the plan the whole time.
24:56
Speaker 3: Maybe, yeah, maybe.
24:58
Speaker 2: Because you would have to know he's going to go back.
25:00
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:01
Speaker 2: So the next stop for the Todd family was the
25:04
Speaker 2: Singapore Police, where they talked to a guy named Detective
25:06
Speaker 2: Mohammed Kaldoon, and he reiterated the police story about how
25:11
Speaker 2: Shane hung himself. And this is where they hand over
25:14
Speaker 2: the printouts of the suicide notes that they said were
25:18
Speaker 2: on Shane's computer. Because suicide is no time to leave
25:22
Speaker 2: a personal touch for the ones we love. Yeah, you're
25:26
Speaker 2: gonna want that to be really cold and unforgiving printed
25:29
Speaker 2: type common sands.
25:35
Speaker 3: That would be very funny.
25:39
Speaker 2: And so one was addressed to dear everyone, and the
25:43
Speaker 2: other two dear mom and dad. And then there were
25:45
Speaker 2: three shorter notes for his girlfriend, his brothers, and his friends.
25:50
Speaker 2: Which that's that's a lot, yeah, putting a lot of
25:53
Speaker 2: thought into it. Shane's mom read the notes then handed
25:56
Speaker 2: them back to the detective and said, my son might
25:59
Speaker 2: have killed himself, but he did not write this. Yeah,
26:02
Speaker 2: and that's always pretty damning evidence in my opinion. Man, Like,
26:09
Speaker 2: for one thing, you know, if you're typing out a
26:11
Speaker 2: suicide note that's sketchy in and of itself.
26:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, do you think do you think in twenty
26:18
Speaker 4: twenty three, like conspirators will are using like chat GBT
26:23
Speaker 4: to make fake suicide notes for their victims they're like
26:27
Speaker 4: coming up with it would be is what this would
26:29
Speaker 4: sound like?
26:30
Speaker 2: If not, they will be soon. Now that'll we put
26:33
Speaker 2: that out into the air.
26:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my fault because it's not I.
26:38
Speaker 2: Mean, it's not the worst idea. You run enough of
26:40
Speaker 2: a person's writing and social media posts.
26:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not the worst idea. It's close.
26:48
Speaker 2: It's up there.
26:49
Speaker 3: It's up there, but not quite the worst.
26:52
Speaker 2: And one of those notes, and this is the part
26:55
Speaker 2: about him hating his job where that adds this is great.
26:59
Speaker 2: One of the notes praised i AM and its management,
27:03
Speaker 2: and another apologized for being a burden to his family.
27:07
Speaker 2: Regarding that family thing, his mom was like, he's always
27:10
Speaker 2: been a great student. He left immediately to go to
27:14
Speaker 2: college and a job right away. He's been the opposite
27:18
Speaker 2: of a burden, like his whole life.
27:21
Speaker 3: Right.
27:21
Speaker 2: And then his girlfriend is the one who was like,
27:23
Speaker 2: he hated that job and he hated the management. There
27:28
Speaker 2: there is no way he would have thanked them in
27:31
Speaker 2: his suicide note.
27:33
Speaker 3: It's real. Did the management write this energy?
27:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like it's like did his manager kill him?
27:42
Speaker 3: Like was it a personal job?
27:44
Speaker 2: I would specifically request a promotion from my coworker.
27:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got no idea who could have done this.
27:53
Speaker 2: But they did ask that you get a promotion. So
27:58
Speaker 2: here we are so prior to have Shane buried in Pomona, California,
28:03
Speaker 2: his family asked the mortuary to take photographs of Shane's
28:06
Speaker 2: body and they sent those to a pathologist, doctor Edward Adelstein,
28:11
Speaker 2: chief of pathology at the Harry S. Truman Veterans Hospital
28:14
Speaker 2: in Missouri, which is how they say it there, and
28:19
Speaker 2: he wrote up a report that suggested that the bruising
28:22
Speaker 2: on Shane's knuckles and hands should have been examined further
28:26
Speaker 2: to see if they were from a struggle with another person,
28:28
Speaker 2: and also that the marks on Shane's neck were more
28:31
Speaker 2: indicative of a quick death as opposed to suicide. His
28:35
Speaker 2: theory was that Shane did not hang to death, but
28:38
Speaker 2: was instead garrotted to death by an attacker. Wouldn't those
28:42
Speaker 2: both take about the same amount of time?
28:44
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. A garrott could crush your windpipe.
28:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, but technically supposed to also.
28:52
Speaker 4: But if you're hanging yourself in the way that they're
28:56
Speaker 4: saying that he hung himself, which is like using his
29:01
Speaker 4: body weight to press.
29:02
Speaker 3: Down on his larynx from like some crazy Rube Goldberg device.
29:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, that would take a lot longer because that you're
29:09
Speaker 4: basically dying by asphyxiation.
29:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, I suppose a garat.
29:14
Speaker 4: A garrot can also sever arteries, Like there's all sorts
29:18
Speaker 4: of extra damage that a garat does.
29:21
Speaker 2: You sure know a lot about how a garat works.
29:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, I played several Hitman games and.
29:27
Speaker 2: They're all where were you when John Bene Ramsey died?
29:30
Speaker 3: Uh? I think it was in kindergarten, so probably not
29:34
Speaker 3: you then, probably.
29:36
Speaker 4: I mean probably not. Look, I didn't have all my
29:39
Speaker 4: faculties back then.
29:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be hard to remember. Hey, we would
29:42
Speaker 2: forgive you.
29:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was a kid. It was playful.
29:50
Speaker 2: So they send this report to the Singapore Police and
29:53
Speaker 2: they're like, get fucked, it was suicide. We don't care.
29:56
Speaker 3: Those are the exact words of the statements.
29:59
Speaker 2: A quote the Singapore Police nuts huh. And around the
30:03
Speaker 2: same time, they had that hard drive with Shane's work
30:06
Speaker 2: files on it examined by a computer analyst who found
30:10
Speaker 2: that someone accessed the hard drive and files about the
30:14
Speaker 2: IME project after Shane's death, but before the family had
30:18
Speaker 2: possession of it, so someone was in his apartment after
30:21
Speaker 2: he died looking at his shit, and I think they
30:24
Speaker 2: later say it was the police, which that was my
30:27
Speaker 2: thought too, was the police. But also why would the
30:30
Speaker 2: police leave that there and take all his other shit?
30:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is strange if someone looked over. I don't
30:37
Speaker 4: know why anyone, any conspirator would leave that hard drive
30:41
Speaker 4: if they had seen it and went through it.
30:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean maybe they just forgot Wow. I mean
30:46
Speaker 2: that happens, like I guess. I watch enough true crime.
30:50
Speaker 2: I know there's crimes out there that had been solved
30:52
Speaker 2: because the person who did it left a checklist like something.
30:55
Speaker 4: That would happen in HBO's Barry exactly seen Barry. I
31:00
Speaker 4: just know it's about the hit man.
31:03
Speaker 2: It's good, but I haven't kept up with it on
31:05
Speaker 2: a couple of seasons behind anyway, Hey everybody, this is Adam,
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32:16
Speaker 2: So, as a result of this, the family returns to
32:20
Speaker 2: Singapore to once again try to get someone to look
32:23
Speaker 2: into Shane's death. The first person they met at the
32:25
Speaker 2: US embassy essentially lectured them about the seriousness of accusing
32:30
Speaker 2: the Singapore police of being corrupt.
32:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, saksman.
32:35
Speaker 2: But then another embassy representative shared some interesting news, which
32:39
Speaker 2: was that the FBI wanted to be involved into the
32:43
Speaker 2: investigation of Shane's death, and that offer was rejected by
32:47
Speaker 2: the Singapore police. So there's a whole lot of nothing
32:51
Speaker 2: to see here. Please stop asking energy coming from the
32:55
Speaker 2: Singapore police, because why wouldn't you just let the FBI
32:59
Speaker 2: look into Yeah?
33:00
Speaker 4: Why not? Well, I mean, look, I mean, what do
33:04
Speaker 4: we know from police movies they hate jurisdictional moves like that.
33:10
Speaker 4: I don't know, fucking that's the police don't deserve that
33:14
Speaker 4: sort of visit of the doubt.
33:17
Speaker 2: And I mean who is the closer ally with Singapore,
33:22
Speaker 2: China or the United States? Probably China, right, I'm asking.
33:26
Speaker 3: I don't assume China.
33:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know enough about diplomacy in the world
33:30
Speaker 2: stage to know that for sure.
33:32
Speaker 3: But I know geographically where Singapore is. Yeah, it just
33:38
Speaker 3: makes more.
33:38
Speaker 4: Sense that it would be heavily involved with China.
33:43
Speaker 2: Right. So I could see China going to them and
33:45
Speaker 2: being like this was a suicide.
33:48
Speaker 3: I mean, just good old fashioned money.
33:49
Speaker 2: And to be fair, I could see the United States
33:51
Speaker 2: doing that too.
33:52
Speaker 4: I could also absolutely they're not off the suspect list.
33:56
Speaker 3: No, No, they're just low.
33:58
Speaker 2: Yeah.
33:58
Speaker 4: I didn't like it really doesn't feel like something like
34:02
Speaker 4: an American job.
34:03
Speaker 3: It just doesn't feel like it, you know.
34:05
Speaker 2: But well, if nothing else, the United States would Okay, see,
34:09
Speaker 2: here's what the United States would want you to think
34:12
Speaker 2: is that they would wait until he got back to
34:14
Speaker 2: the United States to do it. Oh, I guess, but
34:17
Speaker 2: that's just what they want you to think. So when
34:20
Speaker 2: it happens in Singapore, consider that they can be like,
34:24
Speaker 2: we would have waited for him to get back to
34:26
Speaker 2: the United States.
34:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think so, though now it would probably
34:31
Speaker 4: we don't really care about that.
34:33
Speaker 2: It's the same is that sort of a myth about
34:37
Speaker 2: how if you owe a drug dealer even any amount
34:40
Speaker 2: of money, they're going to murder you. Sure, And it's like, no,
34:43
Speaker 2: it's more in their benefit to keep you alive as.
34:46
Speaker 3: A drug addict, like it, would rather have the money back.
34:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'd rather have the money, and they'd rather continue
34:52
Speaker 2: selling you drugs exactly the future if he was already
34:56
Speaker 2: coming our way, That's what I'm thinking. Bringing this work
34:59
Speaker 2: with them, there would be no point for the United
35:02
Speaker 2: States to kill them.
35:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, it just doesn't really make any logical sense. I
35:06
Speaker 4: can't really get a read on a US motive for
35:10
Speaker 4: this other than we're evil as shit and so we
35:13
Speaker 4: just might do it.
35:15
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the Todd family also met with IME representatives
35:21
Speaker 2: while they were there. Yea, And that meeting sounds like
35:24
Speaker 2: it was really fucking intense.
35:27
Speaker 3: Yeah.
35:28
Speaker 2: Ime refused to answer any questions and at the end
35:33
Speaker 2: of the meeting, Ime's lawyer was like, you are not
35:36
Speaker 2: to ask any more questions. You were not to call us,
35:39
Speaker 2: you were not to visit us. There is to be
35:41
Speaker 2: no more investigation. And they were like out, which that
35:45
Speaker 2: feels suspect a little bit frankly, like especially when they're
35:50
Speaker 2: talking about a former employee, like yeah, they're employees.
35:55
Speaker 4: This is the thing, like we're talking about. You know
35:58
Speaker 4: what could get the US to do this. We could
36:00
Speaker 4: get China to get involved and do this, But a corporation,
36:05
Speaker 4: it's so easy to slip in to the well, we
36:09
Speaker 4: can just kill him mindset, right, you know, because everything
36:12
Speaker 4: comes down to profit margins in the end.
36:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're right. It was like if maybe Huawei
36:18
Speaker 2: itself isn't involved with the Chinese government, but they still
36:21
Speaker 2: killed them.
36:22
Speaker 3: Yeah maybe Huawei maybe I.
36:23
Speaker 2: Am yeah, any number of suspects yep.
36:28
Speaker 3: Like for real.
36:29
Speaker 4: The one of the suicide notes just feels like it
36:32
Speaker 4: was written by a manager at Iami.
36:35
Speaker 2: It's crazy, which what a weird step? Like, yes, oh
36:39
Speaker 2: I know what will make us look less suspicious?
36:42
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like why not be like I hate my job
36:45
Speaker 4: and that's why I want to die or whatever?
36:48
Speaker 3: You know that that would at least kind of make sense.
36:52
Speaker 2: Sorry Uncle Sam, anything would be better than what they
36:59
Speaker 2: came up with.
37:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, Uncle Sam.
37:02
Speaker 2: So against all odds, this Financial Times article ends with
37:05
Speaker 2: what seems like is going to be good news. After
37:08
Speaker 2: all the pressure, the authorities in Singapore finally gave in
37:12
Speaker 2: and informed the Todd family that a coroner's inquest would
37:16
Speaker 2: be held to investigate the death of Shane Todd. They
37:19
Speaker 2: also asked if, in the name of aiding that investigation,
37:24
Speaker 2: if the Todd family would maybe consider returning that hard
37:28
Speaker 2: drive they removed from his apartment, which, fucking.
37:32
Speaker 3: Lol, would you kindly?
37:36
Speaker 2: They did not return the hard drive. They offered to
37:38
Speaker 2: send a copy of the contents, and it's like they
37:40
Speaker 2: already have that suure. So the coroner's inquest convenes in
37:46
Speaker 2: May twenty thirteen, and by July twenty thirteen concluded once
37:52
Speaker 2: again that Shane Todd died by his own hand. Things
37:56
Speaker 2: did not go well for the Todd family during this inquest.
37:59
Speaker 3: Yeah.
38:00
Speaker 2: For one thing, the medical examiner from Missouri, who concluded
38:03
Speaker 2: Shane was garrotted, revised that position under questioning m He
38:08
Speaker 2: still maintained that Shane was probably killed, but just wasn't
38:12
Speaker 2: garrotted sure, And even that position put him at odds
38:16
Speaker 2: with four other medical examiners who testified, two from the
38:20
Speaker 2: US and two from Singapore. Here's the thing that doesn't
38:23
Speaker 2: mean that much to me, sure, because one thing I
38:25
Speaker 2: know from watching a ton of true crime documentaries and
38:29
Speaker 2: TV shows is that no matter what side of a
38:32
Speaker 2: case you're on, you can find a scientist who will
38:36
Speaker 2: come to court and argue for your side of things.
38:40
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and not to mention the fact that all of
38:43
Speaker 4: these experts are making their decisions based on photographs of
38:48
Speaker 4: a corpse, not from a physical examination.
38:51
Speaker 2: Right, and without any of the extenuating circumstances, right, really
38:57
Speaker 2: taken into account. I doubt they were taking his employment
39:00
Speaker 2: situation into account, any of the national security stuff.
39:04
Speaker 4: Well yeah, and also not only was it the course,
39:08
Speaker 4: but it was like weeks old by the time it
39:10
Speaker 4: was photographed, right, and that's going to make things look
39:14
Speaker 4: different and who knows.
39:16
Speaker 3: Yeah.
39:17
Speaker 2: So the US Embassy in Singapore, who I really don't trust,
39:20
Speaker 2: as it turns out, not at all, released a statement
39:25
Speaker 2: that said, quote, the inquiry into doctor Todd's death was comprehensive,
39:29
Speaker 2: fair and transparent.
39:32
Speaker 3: It wasn't mission accomplished.
39:35
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. And so meanwhile, the Todd family. They withdrew
39:39
Speaker 2: their support of the inquiry almost as soon as it started. Yeah,
39:43
Speaker 2: and we're not present when the verdict was announced. This
39:46
Speaker 2: is a quote from Rick Todd. It was apparent that
39:49
Speaker 2: the state was only interested in proving suicide and that
39:53
Speaker 2: was why we left. They never interviewed us, and it
39:56
Speaker 2: became obvious from the court that they never investigated the
40:00
Speaker 2: possibility of murder. Yeah, so that's shady. Yeah, that makes sense,
40:06
Speaker 2: and against all odds, it's about to get shadier because
40:10
Speaker 2: the family continued looking into things on their own, but
40:14
Speaker 2: they hit a pretty big roadblock in mid twenty fourteen.
40:18
Speaker 2: For months, they'd been requesting two pieces of evidence, the
40:22
Speaker 2: noose and the towel that were found around Shane's neck
40:26
Speaker 2: when his body was discovered, because, according to reports conducted
40:31
Speaker 2: during that coroner's inquest, both items contained the DNA of
40:37
Speaker 2: two unknown persons, which that's pretty important. But because the
40:43
Speaker 2: ruling was suicide and they never did a murder investigation,
40:47
Speaker 2: they never tested that DNA to see who it belonged to,
40:51
Speaker 2: which seems like pretty important stuff in a case of
40:54
Speaker 2: this magnitude. So, of course, shortly after the coroner's inquiry ended,
40:59
Speaker 2: The Singapore Police destroyed the noose and the towel both,
41:05
Speaker 2: and their argument was that it was standard operating procedure
41:08
Speaker 2: to destroy items associated with a suicide.
41:12
Speaker 4: It's it's standard operating procedure to destroy incriminating evidence for
41:16
Speaker 4: people who bribe.
41:17
Speaker 3: Us, exactly, that's all. It is very standard.
41:22
Speaker 2: And they would have destroyed this at a time when
41:25
Speaker 2: there are court motions being filed back and forth over this,
41:29
Speaker 2: there's letters being sent.
41:30
Speaker 3: Over it, there's a hubbub.
41:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a pretty big deal. And eventually they're just like, sorry,
41:37
Speaker 2: we burnt that shit.
41:39
Speaker 3: Whoops.
41:40
Speaker 2: Oh no, do you want to send you a different one?
41:43
Speaker 2: We can send a different one.
41:46
Speaker 3: This news from this other guy, we can send to you.
41:49
Speaker 2: We got this Singapore PD hand towel. I can send
41:53
Speaker 2: you one of those.
41:53
Speaker 3: We'll fashion like the one that we left on your
41:56
Speaker 3: son's body.
41:57
Speaker 2: Exactly. At one point during this back and forth, the
42:01
Speaker 2: Singapore government wanted the family to explain why they wanted
42:05
Speaker 2: the items back, and their lawyer was like, fuck you,
42:10
Speaker 2: that is their property. His quote was, it's like justifying
42:14
Speaker 2: to a robber why you want your belongings returned. Nevertheless,
42:19
Speaker 2: they destroyed that shit. Great This is a quote from
42:21
Speaker 2: Mary Todd Rick, and I wanted the towel and the
42:24
Speaker 2: strap returned to us in order to do what the
42:27
Speaker 2: SPF should have done in the first place, to test
42:31
Speaker 2: the DNA. We have ample evidence that our son was murdered,
42:35
Speaker 2: but the towel and strap were the only DNA evidence
42:38
Speaker 2: in Shane's case, and now they have been destroyed forever.
42:41
Speaker 2: So that's a bummer. Yeah, big bummer, especially when you
42:44
Speaker 2: take this next piece of info into account. As part
42:47
Speaker 2: of their own investigation, the Todd family had Shane's alleged
42:50
Speaker 2: suicide notes examined by two separate experts. One, doctor Carol Chaski,
42:56
Speaker 2: executive director of the Institute for Linguistic Evidence in Delaware,
43:00
Speaker 2: use code on pops a checkout to say fifteen percent
43:03
Speaker 2: off your first semester wow, sent the Todds an official
43:08
Speaker 2: assessment that said, in part that quote the alleged suicide
43:11
Speaker 2: note is not a real suicide note. She said she
43:14
Speaker 2: would be willing to testify in court over those findings.
43:18
Speaker 2: Another expert, doctor David Camp, a professor of criminal justice
43:22
Speaker 2: at Blackburn College in Illinois, wrote a ten page analysis
43:27
Speaker 2: that concluded that the notes were quote not written by
43:30
Speaker 2: a person who was socialized in the same culture or
43:34
Speaker 2: with the same linguistic pattern end quote. But again, that
43:38
Speaker 2: was all like seven or eight years ago exactly, and
43:42
Speaker 2: it's seeming like that's probably where things are going to
43:46
Speaker 2: end in terms of the investigation into the death of
43:50
Speaker 2: Shane Todd. What do you think do you think he
43:53
Speaker 2: killed himself or do you think he was murdered.
43:55
Speaker 4: I think it's a tragic accident, you know, true didn't
44:00
Speaker 4: hit his neck on the counter and.
44:02
Speaker 2: Right got this strap and the towel wrapped around it exactly.
44:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, uh, yeah, no, I mean it feels like I
44:08
Speaker 4: don't know, I think im probably did it.
44:11
Speaker 3: Really, that's the vibe I kept kidding.
44:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Ime is a good possible culprit too, because
44:18
Speaker 2: he was going to be taking that shit to another
44:21
Speaker 2: company that's exactly working in the same space.
44:24
Speaker 3: Yeah.
44:25
Speaker 2: It also seems like the time of his death is
44:29
Speaker 2: a little sketchy, like in terms of when exactly he died.
44:33
Speaker 2: I wonder if they kidnapped him first and then sent
44:37
Speaker 2: someone in to like see if he had downloaded those files,
44:41
Speaker 2: which he had. Yeah, but even then, maybe take that
44:44
Speaker 2: hard drive. I don't know.
44:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard to say. It doesn't feel like he
44:50
Speaker 4: did it himself. No, seems unlikely, but who knows.
44:55
Speaker 2: There is one more really interesting twist. Even though there
44:59
Speaker 2: is no real ending or resolution to this story now,
45:03
Speaker 2: it seems like it mostly ends with Singapore destroying those
45:06
Speaker 2: last two pieces of evidence, but the family has not
45:09
Speaker 2: given up. Most recent development on their end is that
45:12
Speaker 2: Mary Todd ran for Congress in Montana in twenty twenty two,
45:17
Speaker 2: which is where the family lives, with solving the mystery
45:20
Speaker 2: of her son's death as part of her platform.
45:24
Speaker 3: You just don't get that one very often.
45:26
Speaker 4: Yeah, in a political platform, I want to solve my
45:29
Speaker 4: son's murder.
45:32
Speaker 2: But also I don't know. We all grieve our own way.
45:35
Speaker 3: But sure.
45:36
Speaker 2: I found this sentence from the Shane section of her
45:41
Speaker 2: campaign website a little odd. She ran as a conservative
45:44
Speaker 2: should be not a surprise given this line. Quote, we
45:48
Speaker 2: went to our government and met with officials in the
45:50
Speaker 2: Obama administration, and ultimately they did nothing. End quote. Yeah,
45:56
Speaker 2: and it's like I feel you marry, but Trump clearly
45:59
Speaker 2: didn't do anything either.
46:01
Speaker 3: Yeah.
46:01
Speaker 2: I don't know that your son's death is a partisan issue.
46:08
Speaker 3: That's the thing that's really weird about it to me.
46:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, thoughts in prayers.
46:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I feel terrible that this happened to them.
46:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're covering your son's death for a reason. Yeah,
46:20
Speaker 2: which is I believe you, Mary, I believe he was murdered.
46:24
Speaker 2: But also, did you even ask Trump if so? What
46:28
Speaker 2: did he say?
46:29
Speaker 3: He doesn't even know where Montana is?
46:32
Speaker 2: No? No, absolutely not.
46:34
Speaker 3: He would probably point at Wyoming.
46:38
Speaker 2: I mean I might too. Come on, can't promise anything's
46:44
Speaker 2: got the little little round part? Oh sure, sure, sure,
46:47
Speaker 2: sure so. Yeah, the death of Shane Todd is still
46:50
Speaker 2: officially ruled a suicide. Yeah, even though Trump tried to
46:54
Speaker 2: get the deep state to say otherwise.
46:56
Speaker 3: Well, he didn't try hard enough.
46:58
Speaker 2: Obviously not.
46:59
Speaker 3: And did she her campaign, her congressional campaign didn't go anywhere.
47:03
Speaker 2: No, she lost it, she didn't. She came in third
47:06
Speaker 2: in the primary.
47:06
Speaker 4: I think out, I guess help me solve my child's
47:11
Speaker 4: murder is as universal of a platform as she might
47:15
Speaker 4: have thought.
47:16
Speaker 3: I really am sorry about it, Like, I'm not trying
47:19
Speaker 3: to make fun of her kid getting murdered. But no,
47:21
Speaker 3: you promoting it like that is It's just a weird.
47:25
Speaker 2: Thing to politicize in that way.
47:28
Speaker 3: It's a funny grieving process.
47:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's again I would be all on your
47:34
Speaker 2: side if you just left it at I went to
47:37
Speaker 2: my government and they didn't do anything because again Trump
47:41
Speaker 2: clearly didn't do anything either, absolutely not, which does kind
47:45
Speaker 2: of make it seem like she's politicizing her son's death
47:49
Speaker 2: in a very needless way.
47:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels it feels exploitative, but hey, she.
47:55
Speaker 2: Went through some shit, yeap, who can blame her? And
47:58
Speaker 2: I think that's our episode, right.
48:00
Speaker 3: I think so we did it.
48:01
Speaker 2: We did on the next episode. I don't know what
48:05
Speaker 2: we're talking.
48:06
Speaker 3: About, who knows.
48:07
Speaker 2: We'll figure it out, but it's a surprise. Yeah, it'll
48:10
Speaker 2: be a bonus episode for all you subscribers, which just
48:14
Speaker 2: a reminder as always if you do want to subscribe,
48:18
Speaker 2: you can go to Patreon dot com, slash on pops
48:21
Speaker 2: on popsnetwork dot supercast dot com, or right there in
48:25
Speaker 2: your Spotify app and you can get bonus episodes all
48:29
Speaker 2: the time, all of the time. Also, you should listen
48:32
Speaker 2: to going back our lost rewatch podcast yes, which is
48:36
Speaker 2: out on the streets now.
48:38
Speaker 4: Which is now a from Rewatch Podcasts for some bonus episodes.
48:43
Speaker 2: While we're doing the Bone Con and those bonus episodes
48:46
Speaker 2: are also available if you are a Conspiracy subscriber.
48:50
Speaker 3: Did you catch up on season two yet?
48:51
Speaker 2: Not yet. I've been really busy dealing with dripping sewage
48:55
Speaker 2: from my studio ceiling.
48:58
Speaker 3: But the episode was interesting. I'm excited to see what's
49:01
Speaker 3: going on.
49:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to watch it. So yeah, check that out. Olivia,
49:05
Speaker 2: do you have anything to plug? Alright, let's get out
49:09
Speaker 2: of here. Olivia say goodbye, bye, goodbye everybody. We love you,
49:18
Speaker 2: people of