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Chuck Thurston - Urantia Philosophy · Urantia Radio

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All right. Coming up is our interview with
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Chuck Thurston on this edition of the Rancho Radio Podcast.
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Don't forget to follow us online at your ranchoradio.net, where
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we archive all of our podcast and also follow us on Spotify,
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the home of the Rancho Radio podcast.
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We'll talk for about an hour and we're going to cover a whole
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host of very interesting topics. My time with Chuck Thurston in
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just a moment on the Rancho Radio podcast
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and that's why I wanted to bring you on because you wrote
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something that I had an opportunity.
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One of my listeners sent me what you wrote and we were happen to
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be talking about the Lucifer influence in today's world and
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Calagastia and his role and I found what you wrote to be
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absolutely fascinating about that.
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No. Cool.
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Yeah, is. That the adjudication time
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frame, yes, talking about the expansion of time and how time
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is different for us than it is. So I want to get to a little bit
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about that, but I do want to kind of do a little bit of an
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introduction. Chuck Thurston started reading
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the Rancho book in the mid 70s and after exploring many other
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sources, spiritual insight, the discovery of the ranch book, he
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says and its teachings mark the beginning of a new and
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profoundly life changing growth and understanding of the nature
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of God and the meaning of our existence.
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You know, I think we all kind of have that same thing in common,
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don't we? Yeah.
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Yeah, I think we do. What did you, what had you tried
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before? All kinds of things.
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You know, like what were some of your?
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You know, things that were popular in the 60s and 70s?
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Yeah, EST. That was one of them, right?
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I never, I never got into Ask Earhart seminars, seminars,
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training. Yeah, I had a lot of friends who
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did, but I never did that the way the way it was.
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I think I might have been part of a church group that had the
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way, because I remember our our Bible looked a little different
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from everybody else's. But it was basically a sort of a
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hippie Jesus religion, you know? Yeah, yeah.
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No, I didn't run that so much. But I was in like Alan Watts and
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Timothy Leary and some Eastern Eastern philosophies.
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Yeah, things like that. Sure.
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Maharesh Mahesh Yogi. Studied some of that and some of
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the Indian philosophies too. I mean the India in India.
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They evolved the largest concept of Infinity I think I've ever
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found anywhere. I mean they had a sense of
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eternity and Infinity that was missing from most cultural
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philosophies. I found that very intriguing.
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Did you read Byron Belitso's book about the Odyssey?
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Recently came out with that one. I didn't don't mean to throw it
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at you at it quickly, but he kind of touched on the The
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Odyssey and he's again talking about Odyssey.
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Yeah, about. Yeah, I've looked at some of
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that. The the basis of it being if
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there's a God, why does why are bad things allowed to happen?
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So he really kind of delves into that.
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But there is the common thing that I'm getting from a lot of
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people that's different now in this decade than it was in in
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the twenty 10s. And the certainly the first part
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of the first part of the new century is that it's become
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dark, and I'm not sure why. It seems like it's harder and
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harder to have faith, but it's actually strengthened my own
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resolve in the ranch book. I've never been more convinced
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now that the ranch book is what it says it is because it's now
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it's offering solutions to problems that maybe weren't so
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prominent in the 1990s, You know?
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And you know, they talk about, right?
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I mean, we weren't worried about totalitarianism when I first
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started reading the ranch book. But they dedicate an entire
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chapter to it and they give, they give instruction to us.
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It's almost as if they're giving us something to help us save
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ourselves from something that you know, Am I wrong in feeling
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that? Way well the threat is the
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threat is always there and it's certainly been there big time in
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the long over the last hundred couple, 100 years.
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So I'm not sure it really went away, but maybe we're we were
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distracted by other things. But the rise of social media has
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made me much more aware of a lot of things.
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I mean, you can't escape it if you if you take an independent
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and you know, if you hold an independence of mind and just
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look to see what's out there. Not necessarily going to the
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mainstream news sources, you know, which tend to have a very
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indoctrinating effect, because I'm sure you're aware, yeah,
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it's changed. Side of that, if you look
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outside of that, then you begin to see more clearly, I think
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some of these dark forces that are in play and also the good
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forces that are rising up in opposition.
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I mean, that's one of the things I find so encouraging about
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citizen journalism and the, you know, the rise of independent,
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you know, podcasters and Youtubers and things like that.
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Some of them are heroic in my mind.
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I mean, they're so dedicated to keeping a show out sometimes
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every day. They do so much research, it's
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just remarkable. So if you find there's good
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stuff out there online, if you can find it, you know, you just
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have to have your mind open and then we'll, you know, have a
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have a desire for an alternate view on things.
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And it is out there, and there's a lot of it that I find very
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encouraging, but it's also being oppressed, you know, suppressed
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and bugs. Throttle, there's a real,
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there's real battle going on. I mean, it's been going on for a
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long time, ever since the rebellion broke out, but it's
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kind of relocated to this sphere of information.
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You know, the control of information is a big, big part
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of what? Where the struggle is taking
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place right now, it is because there are people who have a
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certain agenda. Maybe they view humanity, see
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it. You know, To me, the number one
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problem in the world is that we have a lot of millionaires and a
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lot of people of tremendous influence.
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The Mark Zuckerbergs and and and man, the thing that I'd like to
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do is you shove A Urancho book into their hands and send them
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away for a year and make them read that book.
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Because what I see, No, seriously.
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Because, you know, yeah, they have these illusions of
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grandeur. They're going to chemtrail the
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the skies and control the weather.
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And they're going to do all these radicalized, dehumanized,
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atomized. And I know the most highs must
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be looking down at these these people and going, what are these
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guys doing? Do any of them know about the
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ranch book? Yeah, probably not.
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Well, it's really, it's a godless kind of thinking too.
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Yeah, it's like it's like self. Self dedification, you know, we
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need to deify the human race as opposed to turning to God for,
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you know, a sense of reality and guidance.
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It's wanting to usurp that. I mean, that's what Lucifer was
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about, you know, His whole rebellion was about self
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dedification, denying the existence of the Universal
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Father and positing himself as God.
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Or like Calligasi said, calling himself God of Urantia.
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So that that pattern of self dedification runs all through
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our culture where, you know, there's a hubris, there's a self
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aggrandizing dimension to it that has no real moral limits.
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And that's part of the problem, because there's no higher sense
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of reality that we're all part of, you know, the part in the
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whole relationship. You know, I think part of the
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secret of moving forward is individuals voluntarily taking
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responsibility for the good of the whole, and that everyone has
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a mind toward that. Then it's not just about more
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for me, it's about what's good for everybody.
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And that's a real change in thinking that gradually, I'm
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sure will occur. Over the future age, well,
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eventually we'll get there. I think eventually we have the
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potential. You know, there's a couple.
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Of lines, of course. One line when in talking about
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the different governments and how they evolve at different
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rates, there's a comment, I'm not sure exactly where it is,
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where where it talks about certain republics are even now
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in formation. So they may be talking about,
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you know, maybe some African governments right now that are
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in their fetal stage and they haven't quite emerged to that
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point. Or maybe you know some European
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nations that have the potential, you know, to go on to be, you
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know, sort of higher achieving. Another quote I'll throw out
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there. It says when 3/4 of the youth
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are distracted or focused on the external world, civilization is
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in danger and and man well. Think about STEM.
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Think about STEM. That's what STEM is.
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Science, Technology, engineering and Mathematics.
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So China, you know, it's all about STEM.
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And they're an officially atheistic country in their
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philosophy, so that's an example of that.
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There's no attention at all. I mean within at least the STEM
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concept for philosophy or literature or religion.
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And you know, any of those things that we know brings
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closer to God and have the real true unifying and uplifting
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influence, I think better potential because it's not there
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in China. You're not seeing the youth
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smash and grab. You're not seeing the youth
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10,000 people showing up one day in downtown New York City
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because they want to. You're seeing that here.
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We're supposed to be the enlightened ones, but we're not
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I. Mean.
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They do have. They do have, you know.
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Yeah, outbreaks of opposition from time to time.
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But what we're seeing here is something different.
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What we're seeing different here is more like how it was when the
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Communists were taking over. Yeah.
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Like the the Great Leap Forward or you know what Stalin or what
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Lenin and those guys were doing in Russia back when they were
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massacring all the Christians and stuff.
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So what we're seeing here is kind of the early stage of a
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Communist takeover, you might say.
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Or it has that look about it. It does, yeah.
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And that's kind of what's disturbing about it is that the
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ideological struggle that you think is going on between
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secularism and and Jesus's teachings.
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What's the in your mind? What is the great conflict that
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the world right now is is going through based on your knowledge
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of the ranch book and your own wisdom?
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Well, you know, it has different phases and different levels to
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it, but I have noticed that when something good comes along, it's
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almost inevitably opposed by something destructive to try and
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take it down so. The forces of destruction are
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very active and responsive to good things when they do begin
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to happen. So we kind of have to be on our
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guard and aware of that. As you know, we proceed with our
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efforts, you know, to bring the truth of the Ranch book into the
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world and give people a real understanding of Jesus and who
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he was and what he taught. You know, that's going to be
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opposed. There's just no way to for that.
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You know, there's no way to avoid that.
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But we can be wise about how we proceed and have some
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understanding and some anticipation.
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Maybe it's the kinds of opposition that will come up so
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that we can, you know, kind of be strong about it and perhaps
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avoid some of the obvious pitfalls.
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Do you think that the Uranture do you, in that line of thought?
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And do you think that the Uranchable can hold up against
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any arguments that would be pitted against it?
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In other words, what you know. I don't think a lot depends on
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who's doing the arguing. Certainly possible.
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Yeah, of course. I mean, I mean, the ranch book
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itself argues for itself very convincingly as far as I'm
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concerned. But for a human, you know, for
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one of us, like you or me or those we know that are dedicated
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to this work, we have to develop the the understanding to present
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the arguments in our own words. So we're not just quoting
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passages out of the book that we actually have a lived
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understanding that we can refer to and put into words that's
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compelling and attractive. That's see, that's the other
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part of it has to be attractive. I mean, there's nothing
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attractive about destruction. There's nothing attractive about
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sin and evil. It appears to have power because
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it has force behind it. But the consequences of it are
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not attractive. They're not appealing.
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It's not something you want to be part of.
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So what we have on our side is something very, very attractive
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and we have to know how to present it in an attractive way.
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And beyond that, create a culture around it that's
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attractive. And that's I think sort of the
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project we're all working on. You know, like Derek and I on
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our podcast or your work you're doing work others are doing.
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We're creating a culture little by little, you know, slowly, but
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it's emerging and there's a character to that culture.
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That is inherently appealing to anyone that has their heart open
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or their spiritual eyes open. They'll respond to that and see
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it and say, yeah, I want to be part of that.
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I want to, I want to help. What can I do?
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You know, that sort of spirit that draws upon the originality
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and initiative that we each have in potential within us to
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express our spirit, you know, divine.
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Spirit, inspiration, you know we have all these gifts.
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It's spirit. You know, our threefold spirit
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endowment with the thought of gesture and spirit of truth and
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the and the Holy Spirit from the Mother.
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Spirit that is very powerful, very powerful stuff that we've
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been given. But we need to understand and
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discover how to experience it. You know, like Jesus said, you
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know the important thing is growing in your ability to feel
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the presence of God. And that I've always taken that
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comment of his very, very much to heart.
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Yeah. Because that's that's really the
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transforming type of experience. Yeah, That, you know, brings us,
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yeah, closer to God. I guess one way of saying it is,
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you know, I was thinking as you're speaking and you're
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saying some really compelling moving stuff, but it's like
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veganism isn't just what you eat.
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It's a lifestyle, you know. And in the same way religion is,
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It should be religion. Real meaning.
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Everything in your life has to be a spiritual thing.
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And there's a connection through all of it.
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It's not separated parts. You know, sometimes people have
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to think religious is being okay, You got to be religious or
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you got to believe certain things.
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Well, it's actually a convictive tissue that ties everything in
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your life together because you know that, like knowing about
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the mansion worlds, for example. Having that literal explain to
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me what is actually going to happen tells me that I'm going
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to be held accountable for everything I do here.
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So why not start living that life now?
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You know, why can't we live the lives that the truth that Jesus
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taught us now? Not because we want to be
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forgiven or receive salvation. That's an assumption.
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The assumption's already there. You know you by your faith,
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you're safe, right? So why can't religion just be a
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real, real, realistic approach to living life as a spiritual
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person? Doing things, just knowing that
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you're doing something good for somebody else is God's will.
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And it's nothing more or less than that.
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But you know. Yeah, you can start that way,
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yeah. Yeah.
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Well, and then of course the piece about sharing the inner
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life with God, You know, that's kind of their working definition
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of doing God's will. Is sharing our inner life with
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God. So that means being in constant
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communion, just always checking with God, having conversation,
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having communion, having what I call a feeling of withness, the
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feeling of being with God all the time.
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And that transforms us, you know, because it's sort of an
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entrainment almost, you know that, Familiar with that concept
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of entrainment. You know what I mean by that?
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Like you have two vibrating things.
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They're vibrating at different rates, but after a little while
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they start vibrating at the same rate.
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Yeah, I've seen that. It's amazing how energy is.
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Yeah, sort of like that. So.
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Yeah. So, so we're invited to entrain
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with Spirit. So for our thinking to become
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more and more it's true to Spirit values for example.
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And that's kind of what our adjuster gives us, it gives us
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you know? Pictureization is a destiny, but
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it's always in value terms, I think.
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So when we seek guidance, what that's going to come through
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value guidance. So like I say, the one thing we
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can always ask for, you know, in terms of prayer, is knowledge of
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the Father's will that we can always ask for and then try to
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put that into practice. But it has to be a result of our
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own efforts. You know, we have to try to try
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to figure it out ourselves, but we'll get an inner sense.
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You know that sense of this is the way walk there in.
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You know when they talk about the spirit of truth, you know,
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at every crossroads and I'm sure you've had that experience, I
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think all of us probably have that, you know, an active faith
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engagement with God where. Or flummoxed or puzzled by some
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situation that's come up. We can decide what to do, but
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we've identified the options, right?
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I can do this. I can do this or I can do that.
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You know, we put in the work in that sense and then we lay it
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before God, and we get kind of a just a value insight.
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It's kind of almost mysterious, but there's a feeling about one
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of those options that feels right.
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And once that happens, it's obvious, Oh yeah, of course.
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That's the right thing to do, you know.
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And the way that happens, it's an it works on the evaluation
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level. So you think about decisions.
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There's always been evaluations. That's one of the things I've
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talked about at Burning Man. Yes, there's a sequence of
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reality flow that, you know, we discover after a while.
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So at Burning Man, I used the, the example of, like, going to
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Burning Man, right. So the person's like, well, am I
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going to go to Burning Man or not?
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So they have to evaluate that decision, right?
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Yeah. So if they evaluate the decision
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and decide that, yes, they want to do that, then they have to do
19:05
all the preparations. And that's where it gets on to
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the mind level. That's think of all the stuff
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they got to get together in order to actually make it there.
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And then finally, you know, they get in their car or their truck
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and whatever, they hit the road and that's when it's the
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material level. So there's this reality flow
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that always goes from values to meanings to engagement with
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material reality. And I don't think people
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understand that very well. I mean, for me, one of the great
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revelations of the Ranch book is this understanding of reality,
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having these three levels, you know, body, mind and spirit, and
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they're real. And we can engage those 3 levels
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in our growth and decision making processes and everything
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we do. How much of it?
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What are the building blocks that you have to kind of have in
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order to be able to go in the direction you're talking about
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where you can? In other words, what's the
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What's the key curiosity? Curiosity is a big one.
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I mean it it begins with urges. I think, you know, I recently
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been doing some studies stuff and we did a podcast, whatever.
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But about the adjutant mind spirits and they're all
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described as, they're all described as urges, which is
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kind of a revelation. When I noticed that, I didn't.
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I didn't noticed that until pretty recently.
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I mean, the first couple are described more as intuitions and
20:30
impulses, but the other five are clearly described as urges.
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And so those have been put within us to motivate us to get
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us moving. So like recently I visited my
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daughter. She has a 2 year old son, right?
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He's such a bundle of urges. He can't believe it, but it's
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urges and frustrations. It's this combination of urges
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and frustrations, you know, and that's why 2 year olds are
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always, you know, you get all upset, you know, but then they
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try again. But it's the urges to keep us
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moving, you know, It's like the urge to communicate.
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For example, the spirit of council, they have the urge to
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these little 2 year old. Yeah, he's learning words like
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one word at a time. You know, he's just now
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beginning to string them together into these sort of make
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believe sentences. But it's all about this urge to
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communicate. This is the spirit of council.
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So that urge drives our development.
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Those urges, Dr. Our development and the thought of justice is
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also described as an urge, and that's our highest spiritual
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urge. So the urge to know God is
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natural within us if we don't suppress it or deny it.
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Or if you've been taught and that, yeah, but even that isn't
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true because you know, following gong.
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Is a good example. You know, for 100 years these
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people were taught not to go anywhere near religion or they
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could risk being imprisoned. And yet, somehow, some spiritual
22:00
idea enveloped 100 million people over a 10 year period.
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Yeah, yeah. Look at the brutality of the
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suppression of that. Yeah, but you're still emerged
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like a flower grows through a crack.
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You know, it's a great, that's a great example, yeah.
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But you're right. God is reaching down.
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What did I read the quote of the day today was the sun will not
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be satisfied till every mortal has found God or something.
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You know there's there's a reaching down.
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Something is pulling us in. No, I agree.
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Yeah, yeah. Every time we reach up, there's
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a down. There's always an upreach in the
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downreach going on simultaneously.
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What I want to I don't. I want to go to something now
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that I my instincts tell me. But you have a lot to say about
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it. What do you think the role?
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What do you think the relationship will be?
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Or maybe, what do you hope the relationship will be between
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Christians and your ranchons? Do we need each other?
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Yeah. Well, that's a really
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interesting question. I didn't grow up with a really
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strong, I mean, my family background is all Christian, but
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my parents were more academics. My dad was more of a science
23:14
guy. I mean, my mom held on to or
23:17
Christianity more than my father did, but not that they ever lost
23:22
it, but it to some extent it lost credibility, which I think
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is what a lot of us have seen. You know that the Christianity I
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grew up with at least didn't, you know, too much of it just
23:35
seemed like it was made-up or weird, you know, like virgin
23:37
births and things like that. You know, it's just like there's
23:40
a loss of credibility if you're coming from more of a scientific
23:42
background, which I did because that was kind of the culture of
23:45
my family, especially with my father.
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So I'd always put things through this kind of a reality test in
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my thinking, you know. And with my dad, you could
23:56
always tell me this. The only way to determine
23:58
reality is through the repeatable experiment.
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So that that's a principle within within science.
24:07
You know, if you can repeat the same experiment the same way,
24:10
then that shows that there's something there, right?
24:12
And that works on the material, that works on the material
24:15
level. But then how do you address the
24:17
levels of philosophy and spirit? You know, all the all the good
24:22
stuff, you know, beauty, truth and goodness, those things, you
24:25
know, right? And you know, our conversations
24:29
didn't go too far in those directions.
24:30
But then I found the ranch book, tried to show it to him, and he
24:33
said, oh, this is the science that is this what they believed
24:35
in the 50s, you know. So he kind of dismissed it,
24:38
which is frustrating without even looking at the rest of it.
24:42
So you don't necessarily think that Christians are going to
24:45
adapt and or that somehow the ranch book will be Christified
24:49
or? Will there be a marriage?
24:51
And because the Orancho book seems to say we need them, that
24:55
Christianity has its own problems.
24:58
But you know, that's, that's the breonic, you know, Yeah, but
25:02
they do say it's sort of like Jesus said to the Jews back in
25:05
the day. If you don't accept this, others
25:07
will. That's good. 10 tiles, you know,
25:10
and they'll accept it. So it's kind of the same as the
25:13
Orancho book. If the Christians kind of are so
25:16
stubborn because they're not willing to look at it, then
25:19
it'll pass on to others. They're like brothers, you know.
25:21
Others will discover it. And you know this.
25:24
So my, my sympathies are kind of more with the secularist in a
25:27
weird way. Although, you know, I understand
25:30
Christianity and I see the value of it, and I've come to
25:33
appreciate it more over the years since I've been studying
25:35
the Ranch book. I have a greater appreciation,
25:38
Yeah, me too, than I had growing.
25:41
I kind of looked at them as brothers.
25:43
Yeah, well, there's all different kinds of Christians
25:46
too. Yeah.
25:47
You know, they shouldn't be all pigeonholed into one box.
25:50
True. You know, the ones that are the
25:52
most ones that are the most frustrating to me, I guess, are
25:55
the ones who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.
25:59
You know, that belief, which is so hardcore and so strong among
26:04
certain Christians, it just take turns their minds into not.
26:08
I mean, there's just no way you can reckon.
26:11
There's a lot of rigidity, conflicting, conflicting
26:14
passages in the Bible. There's nobody can resolve that
26:17
without understanding they were written by human beings who
26:20
were, you know, some were maybe God like, and a lot of them
26:23
weren't. You know, there's a lot of
26:24
political agendas running through the Bible.
26:26
You know, from the day it's already.
26:28
Well, the the chapter on the Old Testament especially.
26:32
And the thing about the Old Testament that people don't seem
26:34
to grasp, is that there's two very different guide concepts in
26:38
play in the Old Testament. And the Old Testament is about
26:42
the war between these two guide concepts.
26:44
You know, the righteous God psalms and some of these early,
26:48
you know, coming from the Salem missionaries and other sources.
26:52
And then there's stuff that started happening in this in
26:55
around 600 BC, where the efforts to sabotage Michael's, the stole
27:00
got underway. And they introduced all these
27:03
really dark and demonic nationalist, cruel nationalist
27:07
teachings, you know, began with Deuteronomy.
27:11
And that really poisoned the receptivity of the, you know,
27:18
the Hebrew Nation. For Michael's The Stool, and
27:22
that's totally in in conflict. But not only the earlier
27:27
teachings, the older teachings, you know the best stuff in the
27:30
Bible, the oldest stuff. But then there were also the
27:33
prophets. And then you get like Isaiah and
27:35
some of those, and then there's wonderful, wonderful stuff
27:38
there. But it wasn't enough to open
27:41
their hearts. Was this your position then that
27:44
you believe that since Callagastia was aware that
27:48
Michael was going to be, that he tried to sabotage it by making
27:54
by basically militarizing Jewish theology so that it would become
27:58
antagonistic about against every other tribe, right.
28:02
And so that was a way of poison Pilling, in a way.
28:06
Yeah. So that when Michael, that's one
28:09
of the things he did, he did some other things too, but that
28:12
was a big one, was poisoning the scriptures of the Hebrew nation.
28:20
And to to where they were. They were so enamored with this,
28:23
these new promises of worldly power and dominion is the
28:28
leadership that the idea of becoming spiritual teachers,
28:33
bringing God to the other nations, it says, oh, that's
28:35
boring, you don't want to do that.
28:37
We want to take over the world and have power and glory.
28:41
So there was a Switcher in there that happened, you know?
28:48
And I also see a little bit of, you know, starting around 600 BC
28:51
and earlier, but that was the, yeah, definitely a poison pill.
28:56
So you, you see the intransigence of the Jewish
28:59
leaders during the time of Jesus.
29:01
I mean individuals were very willing, some at least were very
29:04
willing to hear what he had to say.
29:06
But the, the leaders were intransigent.
29:09
And the goal, you know, was Malkizadak 2000 years earlier,
29:13
was to have the Hebrew nation welcome Jesus and then carry his
29:17
message to the world. That was the plan.
29:19
That was Nakabena's plan. And the the first thing that
29:26
happened to Derail that was the dispersion of the northern
29:28
Kingdom, because those were the Israelites, the Israelites were
29:33
the northern Kingdom. And you know the story about
29:35
Nathaniel, You know Jesus met Nathaniel, you remember what he
29:39
said, Behold the genuine Israelite in whom there is no
29:43
deceit. And that's and that's how Jesus
29:48
would have been received by the Northern.
29:52
Kingdom, but it was wiped out. It was just first, you know, the
29:56
people were scattered, so all was left was the Judites in the
29:59
South, which were taken over by the priesthood.
30:03
And that's when they started introducing this nationalistic
30:06
teachings that took the place of the original covenant.
30:12
With this new covenant that you know, if you massacre all the
30:17
surrounding tribes, you'll win, right?
30:20
Or something like that. So instead of taking God to the
30:23
rest, to the other nations, they were taking fear and destruction
30:27
to the other nations, which is a complete inversion of the
30:30
original covenant, you know, with Makaventa and Abraham.
30:35
So to me that seems like a very deliberate move on Callagasta's
30:38
part. And it had very telling effect,
30:41
as we can see, because Makavena was never able to bring the
30:46
Hebrew nation around to the point that they would welcome
30:49
and recognize Jesus. Because they were looking even
30:51
political deliverer, right. Well, right.
30:55
Yeah, right. And that was done.
30:57
I mean that was a deliberate thing.
30:58
It was done starting around 600 BC with the introduction
31:03
Deuteronomy. So that's a, you know, and they
31:08
tell the story. Well, Jesus mentioned, you know,
31:11
the the Witch of Endor. Remember that where, you know,
31:15
they're just going along with the apostles.
31:16
I guess they were an indoor or something.
31:18
So you recounted a little bit about that story and you can
31:21
find it in the Old Testament. It's very clearly told about the
31:25
wish and indoor, you know, about how the advice was given.
31:31
You know, you know there's this woman with this familiar spirit
31:35
and called up apparently a secondary midwear pretending to
31:39
be Samuel or something like that.
31:43
Yeah. And that you know caused and who
31:46
was it? Not Cyrus, but The Who was it
31:50
that was the leader at that point.
31:53
Jeez, wait a minute. I'm thinking of his name.
31:55
But anyway, so then he lost that battle and a lot of that him
31:59
losing that battle the ranch book describes as tragic.
32:02
And that was set up by this meeting where he had gone to try
32:05
to get advice from the switch and then and A and a secondary
32:09
midwear posing and Samuel race from the dead misled him so.
32:15
Now, was that an evil fallen midwear that had done this?
32:18
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's what That's what
32:20
Jesus was saying to his bosses when they were in Oh.
32:23
That's that's right, yeah. He's referencing that this is
32:25
going to stop these, these rebel midwear is going to be rounded
32:28
up after I'm gone. So this is not going to
32:30
continue. But you should understand that
32:32
this is exactly is actually what happened during that time.
32:36
So it's not hard to imagine around 600 BC the same thing,
32:40
you know rebel midware Calagassia, you know rebel
32:43
midware poses the Lord thy God something like that and present
32:47
all these teachings just overall the tribal elders thinking
32:50
they're talking to God when they're asking talking to
32:52
Calagassia and the teachers got into the got into those
32:57
scriptures that way probably. Please ask my.
33:00
Well, that's then that raises another question.
33:02
I'll ask then, then the What do you think, if anything?
33:06
Callagastia might be doing to inhibit the growth of the
33:08
Urancho book. Or do you think?
33:11
That the Urancho book is on the right course for right now.
33:14
Yeah. What do you think?
33:15
Yeah, No, that's a that's a good question.
33:19
Well, I. Don't know.
33:21
Any thoughts. Some people say it's not growing
33:24
fast enough, not from what I can see.
33:27
I mean, I get the reports like a lot of people, you know, the
33:30
reports are looking pretty good, I mean.
33:33
You know, for a book that doesn't get any kind of
33:35
marketing or advertising, you know, yeah, it's growing
33:39
phenomenally in, in places in Africa and places I would never
33:42
would of South America. Yeah, South America, but then
33:46
they got that Europe. Thing going on is it?
33:48
Does it going on anything in Europe?
33:49
Yeah, Europe. See that.
33:50
That was the result of World War II.
33:52
Europe was secularized and religion was discredited.
33:55
And that was one of the purposes of World War II was to destroy
33:58
Christianity, the nation and all that stuff.
34:01
So that was pretty that effort on Callagassee's part was pretty
34:05
successful in Europe and we see the consequences of it,
34:07
especially in the Scandinavian countries.
34:10
You know, they've gone very atheistic.
34:12
On the other hand, countries like Hungary seem to be, yeah,
34:17
totally Christianity. Even in Russia, states in the
34:19
Eastern Europe, they've held on more successfully, I think to
34:24
their Christian faith. Yeah.
34:26
And other countries too. I mean, you go to I was in Italy
34:28
some years ago and it's still all turn out, you know, and they
34:31
have cathedrals everywhere. Sure.
34:34
You know, So there's there's stuff going on that's still
34:38
alive in people's heart. But you think the Midwayrs are
34:41
focus. What do you think their concerns
34:43
are right now? You talk to anybody about that,
34:48
like amongst fellow Uranchins, because we know that.
34:51
From the Apocrypha, some of the writings were that the midwares
34:55
are very concerned about communism during and it delayed
34:58
the publishing of the the book. Yeah, that's one of those
35:02
apocryphal stories that I have questions about actually,
35:05
because it wasn't communism popped up out of nowhere in
35:08
1950. I mean it was got started way
35:11
earlier. That's what World War Two was
35:13
about. Yeah, you know, it was about
35:16
communism and the end even much earlier than that, so it
35:21
probably didn't just start. Well, that's true, the danger of
35:25
communism. So I wonder about some of those
35:28
stories you know? Tell me a little bit.
35:30
I want to, I want to get to some of the more exciting things that
35:33
are you and Derek are doing. Tell us a little bit about.
35:37
I know, you also should get good credit.
35:39
You and Christy Larson, part of the Cosmic Blog talk radio thing
35:43
that's been around for like a decade now, right?
35:46
Wait, you mean Cosmic Citizen? Is it a cosmic citizen I'm
35:50
talking about? Yeah, that's Paula.
35:52
Paula Yeah. So tell me about some of your
35:54
other, your other endeavors, specifically with the UB films
36:01
and what you're doing with Derek.
36:02
You guys have been also involved with that.
36:04
So how is that coming along? Are you finding more and more
36:07
new readers? Are you finding you're making an
36:10
impact? What is Tell us?
36:12
Yeah, no, our, our subscribers grown a lot.
36:16
You know, since we've started. You know, we have well and well
36:18
over 1000 subscribers now. I mean, I don't know what the
36:21
current number is, but I I feel like we're, you know, achieving
36:27
as much success as we can hope for.
36:29
It takes time for these things to take hold, but we get a lot
36:34
of interesting comments and people are finding the podcasts
36:36
that aren't necessarily your answer book readers and
36:39
commenting positively about them.
36:40
So I take that as a hopeful sign.
36:44
I mean some of the topics, you know, there's understanding
36:47
about a lot of these things. It's not very as you know out
36:51
there in the culture there's a lot of confusion about a lot of
36:54
things and you know we run run up against that.
36:57
But people are pat are glad to hear what we're talking about
37:02
generally. I mean, for the first, I don't
37:04
know, a couple years, we're doing mostly like spiritual
37:07
topics, like stuff about Jesus and other things related to mind
37:13
and spirit and things, you know, Marantz and stuff like that.
37:15
And then lately we've been doing more historical topics, and
37:19
those are also being very well received.
37:22
You know, like we did a show about Noah, for example.
37:24
Like, we're taking a look at here's what it says in the
37:27
Bible, here's what it says in the ranch book, you know, and
37:29
comparing them and developing a understanding that sort of tries
37:35
to incorporate both perspectives when people get an better idea
37:39
of where the stuff in the Bible came from.
37:43
Yeah. And then who uplifting that with
37:46
what we learned from the ranch book, You know, so there's like
37:48
several Noahs, for example. And, you know, how does that all
37:52
sort out? And same thing with the book
37:54
with Enoch, the book of Enoch. That was a really interesting
37:57
one to research and prepare because there's several Enochs
38:00
as well. You mean in the Biblical
38:03
history? What do you mean there's several
38:04
Enochs? Well, there's the Enoch that was
38:09
just not obtained over in in the land of not who became a, you
38:14
know, a spiritual teacher. But then there's the biblical
38:17
idea that Enoch was the son of was still part of the Pedamic.
38:22
Machine and they But the Bible she doesn't understand about the
38:27
second garden versus the first garden.
38:29
So everything in the Bible that's referenced as the Garden
38:33
of Eden or Adam and Eve is all really the second Garden.
38:37
There's no awareness understanding of the first
38:40
garden. That's interesting.
38:42
I never really thought about that.
38:44
You're right, although there are references made in the Genesis
38:49
about the Three Rivers and I, I would think that had more to do
38:53
with the first garden before it fell.
38:57
Yeah, there might be some. There might be some hints, but
39:00
in terms. Of the and the mist would come
39:02
up, you know and all that. Yeah, yeah, right.
39:05
So the, the, but then there's the Book of Enoch.
39:08
You know who wrote the Book of Enoch?
39:10
That's. Not the same as Yeah, so clarify
39:12
that for me. Is the book of Enoch written
39:15
now? Is that the Enoch that
39:17
translated with his thought of gesture?
39:19
And actually, well, that's one of the questions.
39:21
So we know that Enoch fused. Right.
39:24
Yeah. So that's his distinction was
39:26
was. Yeah, right, right.
39:28
That was he the author of the Book of Enoch.
39:30
I mean, these are questions that are hard to really fully answer.
39:33
But one of the things that I've noticed is that preparing some
39:36
of these shows is that there's this huge body of apocrypha out
39:40
there. You know in the Book of Enoch is
39:41
one of them. It almost made it into the
39:44
Bible. But but there are many others
39:48
like the Book of cash or for example, and I don't know, if
39:51
you go to the website to track this up, there's literally, I
39:54
don't know, maybe, I don't know, hundreds, but close to that of
39:58
other books that are. That didn't right?
40:00
When you begin to look into this stuff, you realize that the
40:03
books that are in the Bible, they're also apocrisy.
40:07
It's just the ones that they happen to.
40:08
Select the ones that like there's.
40:10
All these other books. Maybe have equals standing in
40:14
some sense or have certainly have worthwhile material in them
40:18
that maybe could be also taken seriously.
40:22
So that's that's a big puzzle. You know what to do with all the
40:24
apocrypha like in the Which one is it?
40:27
I think it's in the the second book of Enoch.
40:30
I'm not sure there's a whole section that describes the the
40:33
rebellion in Dalmatia. I'd like to read that.
40:36
How can I but? With different name but with
40:38
different names. Oh, I see.
40:40
The names are different. But if you follow the story, it
40:44
sounds exactly what what happened to Dalmatia, you know,
40:46
interesting. Yeah.
40:49
So there's these echoes reaching way back into the past and some
40:53
of these writings can you just sort of your jaw drops.
40:57
I mean the power of of oral tradition to carry forward some
41:03
of these stories over just incredible stretches of time is
41:07
just like, you know, it's awesome.
41:10
I mean it's. Hard to believe, but there it
41:12
is, you know, so you can find these things A couple of minutes
41:18
left. I want to talk quickly.
41:19
Are you surprised? I noticed AI has a real good
41:23
grasp, or at least it seems to me.
41:25
Somebody sent me something the other day where they asked
41:28
ChatGPT to create a website that has all the other your answer
41:32
related websites and it assembled a collection of all
41:36
these websites that are out there that are it's beautiful.
41:40
I'm I don't even anyway her website or the person who wrote
41:44
it, your answer resources.com that's actually created by a I
41:48
and I did a couple of experiments.
41:50
When A I I'm not a big fan of a I, I'm kind of hands off on this
41:54
one, but I'm I'm amazed at how much it it is able to pull a
42:01
fairly cohesive, somewhat accurate representation of the
42:06
arrangements. You gotta watch it though,
42:08
because it'll be there'll be really some very the road isn't
42:12
that to. Embedded in, yeah.
42:14
With the equals, Yeah, so you have to.
42:16
You have to. It wouldn't be a good resource
42:18
to find out. Discretion.
42:20
Yeah, but. But some of the stuff it comes
42:23
up with, it's pretty remarkable, you know, if I'm not using
42:26
concerning. To create imagery for our
42:28
podcast. Oh yeah.
42:29
Oh, yeah, right, That's. That's that's been hugely
42:32
helpful. I mean, I mean it takes some
42:35
trial and error sometimes to get something useful, but you know
42:39
like I was trying to get an image of a of a fan door, you
42:42
know, somebody riding on a fan door.
42:44
So I so I in my prompt, my prompt that I put in, I put in
42:49
passenger bird, right. And then then Mid Journey came
42:54
back with a bird sitting in an airplane looking out the window
42:57
literal. Yeah.
43:00
So it could be very literal. You're a should mention you're
43:05
yeah, you're a digital artist and a photographer.
43:08
So you enjoy putting together works of your ranch of concerts.
43:12
Yeah. Where can we go and see some of
43:14
your? Work well, I have an Instagram
43:18
account. OK.
43:20
It's Thurston dot Chuck. All right.
43:22
I'll, I'll follow you. At Thurston dot Chuck.
43:25
Yeah, and that's all. It's just it's just photography.
43:30
I've. Been doing photography for a
43:31
long time, so I try to imbue it with a spiritual sense that it's
43:34
not specifically like you're asking topics and things like
43:38
that. I see you're trying to create
43:40
Marancha. See, that's the attempt at
43:43
Marancha, right? Yeah, I should also give credit
43:48
to Derek as well because he puts together a really nice
43:52
production. I don't know who's behind it,
43:54
but I know the behind the scenes is is crucial to anything and do
43:59
you think the there will ever do you think pop culture will kind
44:03
of end it with this? I want to kind of end it on a
44:05
lighter note. But I, I, I look at the
44:08
amazement of the popularity of things like Star Wars.
44:10
Well, it used to be back when it was a real good Star Trek some
44:14
of the stuff. It seems like the young people
44:16
today are ready to start talking about life on other planets, and
44:19
they're kind of assuming that we're not alone.
44:23
It seems like they would be ripe for a lot of the information
44:26
that's in the Ranch book, and we get them very excited about the
44:29
future. Yeah, well, that's one of the
44:32
reasons we're doing this historical stuff.
44:34
You know, it's like the ancient aliens and all that kind of
44:36
stuff captured people's imagination.
44:38
So trying to fill in some of the real history, which is just as
44:41
cool, if not cooler stuff they make up, you know, along those
44:46
lines. I mean, not completely without
44:48
evidence. I mean the stuff that, you know,
44:50
the Ancient Aliens people, they do the best they can with the
44:53
information they have available, I suppose.
44:57
But it's exciting to be able to talk about those things in a way
45:00
that actually ties it back to real history, where you can find
45:03
like real artifacts that. So the reality of some of these
45:08
things that are described in the ranch, both that are mistaken to
45:12
be, well, in a way sort of, you know, we have been visited and
45:15
endowed by, Oh yeah, many times right off.
45:18
Planet off planet. Gifts of culture and race, even
45:23
genetics and things. So that's real.
45:24
That's that's real. It's just how you understand it
45:27
and how you understand the purpose of it and what's behind
45:30
it. That's kind of the key.
45:33
That's often missing that there's a divine purpose or you
45:37
know, that's what's always missing to it, that that
45:39
actually to me is the missing element to a lot of this ancient
45:43
alien stuff. They they're not clear on the
45:44
motive. They think that these people are
45:47
just popping up and it's like everything else random, and they
45:50
just showed up and they found us.
45:51
No, no, no, no, no, We are here. I'll see if I can find this
45:56
quickly if I can. I'll be proud of myself, if not
45:59
okay, I got inspired. Like watching ancient Aliens.
46:02
It's a fun thing to do. But here's the literal flat
46:05
fact. If you're a drive by that,
46:07
here's what the ranch book says. Your ranch is a 600 and 6th
46:10
world in the 24th system of the 70th constellation in the 84th
46:15
universe. Our universe capital is called
46:17
Salvington. It is one of 100,000 local
46:20
universes in the in the seven universes which comprise this
46:25
and make up the entire 7 universes, the current, what do
46:29
they call it? It's the Grand Universe.
46:32
Havana is the central universe that encircles the the Isle of
46:36
Paradise, the dwelling place of the Universal Father, the
46:39
Eternal Son, and the Infinite Spirit.
46:41
That's about as literal as you're going to get.
46:44
Yeah, and in in in in explaining just how organized are you.
46:49
Our universe really is. Yeah, yeah, totally.
46:52
Exactly. So that means there's 600 and
46:55
there's 13 planets that have evolved life since our planet
47:00
evolved life, it takes us to 619.
47:03
So if you divide that by a billion years, it seems like
47:06
every million years or so, give or take, there's a new planet
47:10
emerging with life. Now when you look at it from
47:12
that perspective, it's it's very literal, it's very physical,
47:16
It's not very romantic, but it it makes the point that we're in
47:19
an organized system here, right? This isn't random causation.
47:24
I just thought I'd share that with you, you know?
47:25
So. Yeah.
47:26
Well, to go along with that, this sort of fascination or
47:30
fixation on ETS or UFOs or extraplanetary mortal species, I
47:37
think is driven to some extent and maybe to a large extent by
47:42
an intuitive desire to understand the presence of
47:46
celestial beings. Because the understanding of the
47:50
presence of celestial beings has been largely lost.
47:54
And that's what we really need to Well, that's what we really
47:56
need to know about. And that's what the eraser both
47:59
teaches us about. You know, about the midwears and
48:02
the angels and all these other beings that we can't see, but
48:05
they're here and they're here to help us.
48:07
So I think there's been a kind of a transposition going on,
48:10
maybe on an intuitive level or something where there's urge to
48:16
know about celestial life has been.
48:19
Sort of twisted into this fascination with ETS and UFOs.
48:23
Oh yeah. Which is not, as I don't think
48:27
that has anywhere near the significance.
48:29
What's that one? The.
48:30
Celestial presence on the planet The opening of the papers on
48:34
this graphic planet Government at Roll Call today.
48:38
Yeah, right, exactly. They have their morning meeting
48:41
that they described who attends and all of that.
48:46
Yeah, I think my favorite is the creation of the Andron over
48:49
Nebula, where there was actually a being who went out and filed a
48:54
permit. Yeah, they had to file a permit.
48:58
They had to wait for the paperwork.
49:02
But it's real, you know? It's all just fascinating mind
49:06
blowing, really. Really.
49:08
If you think about that, the whole thing is mind blowing.
49:11
And, you know, who knows, Maybe it didn't come in time to save
49:14
this civilization, which I wonder, you know, remember they
49:18
said, boy, if Jesus had had come just maybe a couple of decades
49:21
earlier, would he been able to save the Roman Empire?
49:25
And so I think about that a lot, you know, But he, he got, he was
49:31
smart, he, he had the Greeks as a Plan B.
49:35
And it worked for him. Yeah.
49:37
Yeah, that was. Smart.
49:38
It wasn't what they intended. But you know, there were
49:42
workarounds, so he made the best of the situation as he found it.
49:46
No question about that. You know what I found?
49:48
All this, and Mack Avena was right there too, you know,
49:52
constantly, you know, this battle of wits with Callagaski
49:55
was going on all the way down. That's a fascinating aspect too.
50:00
Yeah, but it wasn't God's plan for Jesus to be crucified.
50:05
Then it wasn't Melchizedek's plan either.
50:07
And it wasn't Jesus's plan. It was Caligaski's plan.
50:11
Yeah. You know there's a in reading
50:13
the paper 19. One reader recommended I read
50:17
paper 119 which goes through all the bestowal experiences of
50:21
Michael and Oh yeah, and I just realized after 40 years of
50:25
studying this, you know he he got a lot of of experience
50:29
working with Rebellion Seared he did.
50:33
Yeah, he went into rebellion situations.
50:36
Yeah. I wonder if he had the foresight
50:38
to think I know where my last bestowal is going to be, so I
50:42
better learn as much as I can about all of this.
50:46
That's pretty smart. I don't know.
50:50
Yeah. All right.
50:51
Well, again, Chuck Thurston and just follow him on Instagram and
50:56
I'm sure you'll find him out there.
50:57
I see him all the time out there on anything great writings that
51:01
you have in your work with UV, yeah.
51:02
Mainly is our pod our UBM channel?
51:04
Yeah, UVM scurry to the channel and that's on YouTube.
51:07
That's where we do it, yeah. That's where we do our Uranchal
51:09
stuff. Yeah, on YouTube.
51:11
Very good. Chuck Thurston, ladies and
51:13
gentlemen, on this edition of the Uranch Radio Podcast.