Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1159: Improving Lives with Archery - Sam Westfall

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Ep. 1159: Improving Lives with Archery - Sam Westfall · Adventure Sports Podcast

0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for adventuring with us, as we discover what incredible athletes and outdoor enthusiasts are doing all over the world.
0:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Now here's your host, Kurt Linville.
0:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello friends, welcome to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Today is December the 28th, which means this comes out on the 29th, the New Year.
0:29
[SPEAKER_01]: 2026 is just around the corner and it's amazing to me.
0:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope that your holidays have been fantastic so far.
0:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that I've had a delightful time with friends and family and just enjoy nature.
0:44
[SPEAKER_01]: We've taken several good hikes.
0:49
[SPEAKER_01]: before the New Year's comes.
0:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to say that Mother Nature has not been kind when it comes to snow this year, but hey, things can always change.
1:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to give you a quick update on the Kilimanjaro trip and the fundraiser for we see hope.
1:07
[SPEAKER_01]: to help homeless children, impoverished children in Africa, in several different nations in Africa, to get a better shot, maybe a second shot at life.
1:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is something that I've been thinking about.
1:23
[SPEAKER_01]: when one person is given the opportunity and takes it to actually build a better life, to live a better life, then that gets passed on to the next generation, to the kids, and to their kids, the grandchildren, and beyond and beyond and beyond, so when we help one child today, we might be
1:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm excited about that opportunity to make a difference in someone's life, it could be long-lasting and actually impact many lives going forward into the future.
2:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the Adventure Sports podcast has been raising money for we see hope and our goal is to raise approximately a dollar per foot that I'm going to climb on Kilimanjaro.
2:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Kilimanjaro is almost 20,000 feet tall.
2:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's 19348 or something like that.
2:23
[SPEAKER_01]: 93 something.
2:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, of the $20,000 goal, now this is kind of a bittersweet sort of a thing.
2:31
[SPEAKER_01]: The Adventure Sports podcast has raised $3,576, and I think that's wonderful.
2:40
[SPEAKER_01]: The generosity is so appreciated, those of you that have contributed to we see hope to make a difference for lives in Africa.
2:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I thank you for the bottom of my heart.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's beautiful.
2:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I look at that number, I think, you know what?
2:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a fair chunk of change.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: This gonna make a huge impact for these kids.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Money goes a long way in Africa.
3:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, two or three hundred bucks will feed a family for a year there.
3:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're talking about with a money we've raised, maybe 10 families that will be benefited, but more than that it's about the kids who will get an education, they'll get clothing, they'll get a place to live, they'll get food, they'll get a chance to actually build a productive life and to make a difference in the world.
3:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you again to all of you that have contributed.
3:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I am so very, very thankful.
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I am leaving for Africa here in about three weeks.
3:38
[SPEAKER_01]: and super excited.
3:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also want to be really just candid with you.
3:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a long time since I've done a big adventure and it's been a long time since I've done a big adventure overseas.
3:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm surprised, but I started getting the pre-trip jitters just a little bit.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And isn't that the excitement of adventure travel and adventure sports?
4:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that I wonder what's going to happen.
4:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I ready for this?
4:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this going to be a great experience or is it going to not feel my butt?
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's part of why we do adventure.
4:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what helps us to learn so much more about ourselves and also to learn better ways that we can care for others.
4:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Tom, who's also one of the guys going on this trip.
4:25
[SPEAKER_01]: He sent out a message two or three days ago and he said,
4:30
[SPEAKER_01]: we're going to get to the top together as a team and whatever the highest point is that we make that'll be the summit for us.
4:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think what he was trying to communicate there is we're going to encourage each other.
4:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to pull each other if necessary, but we're in this together.
4:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that idea.
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We're in this together, especially during the holiday season.
4:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really good to remember that you need friends, you need family, you need community, and we are in this together.
5:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we pull together, we can make a huge difference in the world.
5:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you again so much.
5:09
[SPEAKER_01]: for your generosity, and if you would like to contribute, go to charity.pledget.org, and it's climbing for change at Kurt Lindville.
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So the whole URL I'll put in the show notes, but it's charity.pledget.org slash climbing for change slash at Kurt Lindville, and that is the place where you can donate
5:34
[SPEAKER_01]: through the adventure sports podcast so that we can keep track of how much has been given to we see hope for the kids in Africa so thank you in advance and again it'll be in the show notes now this program is a subject I don't think we've ever talked about before on the adventure sports podcast I think it's going to be fantastic it's very fresh we're talking about the healing
6:00
[SPEAKER_01]: power, maybe even the healing, epigenetic power of the ancient, ancient art form of archery.
6:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Today's show is going to be a little off the beaten path for the Adventure Sports podcast.
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be talking about archery, but archery for a reason and how that connects us to nature and also to fitness.
6:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I have Sam Westfall with us who was in the army.
6:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Sam worked as a mechanic on the M1 Abrams tank, which is pretty amazing.
6:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And he uses archery as a way to encourage active military veterans and their families.
6:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just a really cool thing that he has going on.
6:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to learn more about archery, kind of as a periphery to an adventure sport.
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So Sam, welcome to the program.
6:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Morning, girls.
6:56
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you?
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing well.
6:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So where are you located, Sam?
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We're we're out of color to spring Colorado Colorado okay and Colorado Springs.
7:06
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a big military town kind of makes is.
7:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
7:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you have let's see Peterson Air Force.
7:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You have Fort Carson.
7:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You have.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
7:17
[SPEAKER_01]: There's there's Air Force.
7:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You had a me.
7:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there you go.
7:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's River.
7:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: and Norab.
7:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And Norab.
7:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Norab used to be in the mountain, but I understand it's more and Peterson now, or is it kind of, um, I think a lot of the command is out of Peterson, but Norab still exists.
7:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So Cheyenne Mountain is still Cheyenne Mountain.
7:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a place where a lot of people obviously, military people get their start in the Air Force, they get their training, they get, you know, they get station there to do all the wonderful things to help defend the United States.
7:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And so let's just start out by recognizing that and saying thank you to everyone for their service.
7:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
7:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Sim Archery.
8:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love that.
8:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the way that's worded yes.
8:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me describe for those of you who can't see Sam has on a t-shirt and on this t-shirt it has a a frowning face, a plus sign, a symbol of a person shooting a bow, an equal sign, and then a smiling face.
8:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that.
8:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So tell us what you drive in here.
8:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's just that.
8:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's our tree is therapy.
8:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, if you are sad, if you were depressed, if you are stressed anxiety, PTSD, whatever the taste may be, and you grab a bow and you launch narrow to target.
8:40
[SPEAKER_02]: You immediately become happy because a little bit of that stress, anxiety, sadness, depression, PTSD, I'll go out with that arrow.
8:46
[SPEAKER_02]: While you've got that bow drawn back, all the voices, all the noises, all the clutter, all the chaos, all the bills do I have to pay what chores do I have to do, it all goes quiet.
8:55
[SPEAKER_02]: All you can do is focus on that bow string, that arrow, the target, and let go.
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, people often talk about finding the flow or being in the moment or that sort of thing.
9:07
[SPEAKER_02]: This is peak for that, right?
9:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
9:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one thing to go hiking up a mountain, whether it's a 3000 footer or a 14 or doesn't matter.
9:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're in your zone, and you're focused on what you're trying to do.
9:19
[SPEAKER_02]: But a bowstring is totally different, because as soon as that bowstring comes back, everything all the noise goes quiet.
9:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So it really has to keep you in the moment in that focus in order to keep that arrow where you want it to be.
9:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I can see that in one of the reasons is because archery was kind of a big deal from me growing up as a kid, even though I would never say I got accomplished at it.
9:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But I understand it.
9:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Matter of fact, this is just a little aside.
9:49
[SPEAKER_01]: three or four years old.
9:51
[SPEAKER_01]: The first Robin Hood movie came out, the Cartoon, and there was a competition, and I drew a picture of someone shooting a bow, and I won the competition, which meant my family got to go to the movie for free, and I got a stuffed toy.
10:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was that's win.
10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a lot of fun, but maybe that's what kicked it off from that point forward.
10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I was constantly trying to learn how to shoot a bow.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I understand what you're talking about to some degree because of that experience.
10:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think a lot of people out there that have never shot a bow are probably like, what do you mean?
10:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Shooting a bow creates peace, focus, put your own, what's that about?
10:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you're hiking, let's use hiking as the example.
10:39
[SPEAKER_02]: When you're hiking, you're focused on the hike.
10:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You're hope focused on breathing.
10:43
[SPEAKER_02]: You're keeping your feet underneath you.
10:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Keep in balance.
10:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's great.
10:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Predominantly, a little bit of upper body, mostly lower body sport.
10:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Archery is a little different.
10:52
[SPEAKER_02]: It is mental as much as it is physical.
10:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And for what we do, it's a thing that like a golf course.
10:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a mile and a half loop.
11:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Only you're doing it with a bow and arrow.
11:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So we've set up a 25 to 30 target archery course and you're going for a hike.
11:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're taking the bow out for a walk as it were.
11:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to shoot at a flamingo target.
11:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to shoot at a big foot target.
11:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to shoot an armadillo, whatever the case may be.
11:17
[SPEAKER_02]: But you're taking the bow for a hike.
11:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's the lower body workout.
11:20
[SPEAKER_02]: The upper body workout is the act of pulling that bow string back repeatedly.
11:25
[SPEAKER_02]: The mental focus is where that clarity comes into play.
11:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I said, it just tones down everything.
11:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It allows you to let loose of all those stresses and anxieties and just really focus
11:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, something interesting, any sort of the shooting sport, whenever you aim at a precise target, your heartbeat will make whatever you're aiming with, go up and down, and up and down, and up and down.
11:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing with archery, so you have to be able to quiet even your heartbeat and your breathing and be able to shoot in perfect rhythm with that, especially if you've been hiking to get there, right?
12:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
12:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Explain how to be accurate.
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So then shooting a target and how that relates to what we're talking about here.
12:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
12:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I've shot competitively for decades at this point, whether it was with a firearm or with a bow, it doesn't matter.
12:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Then to your point, right, you have to be able to control your mind, your breathing, your heart rate, even physical, whether it's firearms or bow, you have to be able to control the physical aspect of it to make sure that I get shots accurate.
12:36
[SPEAKER_02]: with a bow it's a little different.
12:38
[SPEAKER_02]: In the firearm space, you know, you're holding that firearm up and you've got a brace for the recoil of it, whatever that amount of recoil is.
12:47
[SPEAKER_02]: With a bow, you're actually letting that string go, so it's just allowing that arrow to cruise out and hit that target.
12:53
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're shooting a compound bow, that's one thing, because those have a peep site on the string and a site on the bow in a target pin.
13:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So that allows you to be really accurate, especially a close distance, it's a long distance, it's a little different game.
13:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But on a recurve bow, which is what all the rentals are, yet it's a little bit different space.
13:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And for those that have never shot before, I say grab the string, pull it back, get that string to the corner of your mouth, let it touch the string, touch the end of your nose, where those fingers touch, and then just let those fingers roll out and let that arrow go.
13:26
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll learn as you shoot consistently, or as you practice consistently, where that arrow is gonna go, and you can adjust high left, low right, whatever the case may be, to get that arrow to where you want it to be.
13:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, so it takes a lot of control, a lot of precision, a lot of focus.
13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's, that's where the mental focus art is coming in, I guess.
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're going to actually, well, you can't be distracted.
13:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you can, but it's not going to play out well in the long run.
13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
13:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have events, let's just describe one of these events, so that people know what you do.
14:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You have events where people come and compete and the camaraderie and the fun and then, you know, all the stuff.
14:05
[SPEAKER_01]: right, but explain that to us.
14:07
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it that you do?
14:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would use the word compete loosely.
14:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more of a fun shoot.
14:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It really just has a camaraderie building event.
14:16
[SPEAKER_02]: If Curtis were to come out to the event and April, you're going to show up whether you register online or you register Dave does a matter.
14:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It's $40 registration fee $15 additional for rentals.
14:27
[SPEAKER_02]: If you need a rental, we walk you out.
14:29
[SPEAKER_02]: We do 10 to 15 minutes
14:34
[SPEAKER_02]: We let you play on a entry level course, and that's 10 targets, nothing's more than 20 yards and everything is full broadside to it, so it's really it that confidence booster, that build the skill set, get comfortable with shooting, and then we take down the fun part.
14:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So that takes you over to the next level course, and that's where the hike really begins, so we're going to start you with moving targets, because why should it station everyone you can get stuff that moves.
14:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to start you with moving targets, and then the mile and a half loop comes into play.
15:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Whether it's a shine mountain shooting complex, whether it's up in the mountains, or a couple of the other venues.
15:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You're really just going for that hike, you're taking the boat for a walk.
15:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, say, 25 to 35 targets, somewhere out there.
15:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything from four feet worth of distance to 120 yards.
15:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got a shooting cone, you've got a target cone as long as you're between the cones.
15:20
[SPEAKER_02]: you can move up to wherever you're comfortable at.
15:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned a couple of shots have something similar to a CrossFit but with our treat.
15:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So whether it's sandbag kettlebells or sandbag workout program, you're going to walk up, you're going to have that challenge shot that says you have to do 20 kettlebell swings and where you, before you can even take the shot.
15:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've got to cut yeah, exactly.
15:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got a couple of the where your shooting companions are going to be trash talking.
15:45
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to be yelling screaming shouting having fun hoot and hoot and holler while you're trying to focus and so it just creates that camaraderie in that community around it and allows for a lot more fun to be had when you put competition and a scorecard now it becomes an ego thing and I was trying to avoid that so I really just wanted to be a fun shoot.
16:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's great.
16:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the idea, and this is true for all adventure sports, I think, if people do them in the right way, which is people get together with common interest and the fun begins and people get to know each other, and you know, Sam, when people are struggling, maybe it's PTSD, maybe it's it's some other challenge, just we get down sometimes.
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: what we need more than anything else I think is that camaraderie.
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's getting back out with people and interacting with people in a positive and fun way.
16:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really what the Adventuresports podcast is about.
16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about that community and I like what you're doing there.
16:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you talk to us about how your focus is on veterans and their families?
16:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
16:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So as you mentioned in the start of it, I'm an army veteran myself.
16:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a service disabled
16:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a long story over a lot more beer.
17:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So that put me in a spiral of depression, a little bit of PTSD you went along with it over the years.
17:07
[SPEAKER_02]: After a number of years out of the military and a lot of alcohol and firearms in between which was not a good combination, a buddy of mine put a bone in my hand and said, just try it.
17:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So, first time I drew that bowstring back, like I said, it all went quiet, everything contained the chaos went away when I let go of that arrow, little stress, anxiety and depression went out with it.
17:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Now that can't be right.
17:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So I asked him for another arrow, hand to be another arrow.
17:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I did the same thing and I felt the exact same way the second time.
17:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: That was 15 years ago.
17:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I've used archery as my therapy for the last 15 years, more than anything else in the world.
17:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Step to away from firearms wholeheartedly, predominantly step to away from alcohol.
17:45
[SPEAKER_02]: archaries my thing now and that's I want to provide that as an outlet and an opportunity for other military and veterans and families and like I said it's open in the public so if you need an outlet this is it going around the country and doing different events and competitions most of the archery related events don't offer rental gear my said let's change that so for 15
18:14
[SPEAKER_02]: hit quiver with their arrows and now you can go play and it's really it's not breaking the bank but it gets you out trying our tree as a sport so that you can figure out if it's going to work for you or not.
18:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would recommend people try it actually.
18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to share this.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people say well that's cute.
18:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I grew up on a farm and, you know, I already mentioned that I had this whole Robinhood thing going on.
18:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to be able to shoot.
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I remember I found some, uh, bailing twine, you know, that that I hate bills with.
18:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
18:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
18:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I cut a persimmon tree sapling.
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't, I didn't shape it or do anything to make it good.
18:53
[SPEAKER_01]: All I did was tie the twine to the tree, right?
18:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And that meant that it didn't even bend symmetrically.
19:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you had to shoot it from the top so that you'd get a flight that was somewhat even.
19:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was kind of a crazy thing.
19:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know how many thousands of hours I shot that person and bow and I made my arrows out of cane and some chicken feathers there you go
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was there was no precision or technology involved, but I shot it so long and learned its quirks that I actually got to the point that I could hit things.
19:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And I used to prop up a 1 by 12 and put a paper plate on it because that was a good size target, you know, and I could consistently hit that paper plate from 2530 yards with my makeshift mess.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That's impressive.
19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But here's the thing, the reason I've dealt in this story, Sam, is because I came from an emotionally violent home.
19:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I spent my time in the woods, I spent my time with that bow.
20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's something that I can say, yeah, I get it.
20:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why what you're talking, but you focus on the target.
20:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes you out of all of that.
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: and then here's the part that I find as the arrow flies through the air there's hope it's charged it's like will I hit the target did I do it this time there's something about that you know you're learning hope
20:33
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a had a small event on Sunday and a Marine Corps veteran that had some severe issues going on in her life over the last couple of years since she got out, she explained that she'd never shot a boat before and she explained it after the fact of it was a big exhale.
20:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
20:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And that everything just washed out with that arrow.
20:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that crazy?
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we talked just briefly before I hit record here about how some of the movies have portrayed archery in the recent, more recent history, and we talked about Hunger Games being one of them, and I think that when it aligns more perhaps in some of the others with what we're talking about, because here you have people that are suffering and people that are trying to recover from oppression and some very difficult situations.
21:19
[SPEAKER_01]: and put into a situation that's extraordinarily stressful, but the bow played a big role there.
21:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, it was, yeah, it was just as much part of the actors or actors as any of the others.
21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and there's one of the things I should mention, I don't know if you're into this at all, but I also use a bow to start fires with a bow and drill.
21:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, okay, that's a totally different kind of technology, but it's another way that
21:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So can we go into that a little bit at the origins of bows and arrows and what that's all about?
21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, and I can only go so deep with that, but yeah, I happy to go down that path.
22:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So humans have been fighting, we're hunting, whatever the case may be for millennia.
22:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And
22:09
[SPEAKER_02]: At some point they got tired of chasing stuff with spears and wanted to be able to reach out and hit it from a longer angle, you can only throw a spears to so accurate, so bows and arrows were created, it moved its way into the Olympics, you know, more than a thousand years ago, it's been a popular way to, by the combat or hunt.
22:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Since then, and for those that want to hunt with a boat, good on you, I've hunted with a boat for the last 15 years.
22:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a great way to keep a neutral ground in a hunting space, gives it more of a fair chase opportunity between you and the animals.
22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't want to hunt and you just want to come out and shoot a random flamingo target, that's fine too.
22:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I got no grudges there either.
22:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It really just is, you know, use it to what it's beneficial for you, how you need it.
22:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, something else that comes to mind here.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm theorizing, I'm no expert on this, okay.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Epigenetics.
23:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So we didn't even know that epigenetics was a thing until probably 10 or 15 years ago, but what we've learned is that there is a genetic memory and it has to do with a methylation of your DNA genes, so what gene expression you get, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
23:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Your DNA doesn't dictate everything about you, it's your lifestyle and what you learn and how you are raised and what your grandparents were like and their grandparents were like and all of this gets passed down generationally until there are some things that are such a historical archetype that I think humans tend to have a connection and one of those we've talked about on this show is horses.
23:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
23:47
[SPEAKER_02]: He coined therapy is a wonderful thing too.
23:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
23:50
[SPEAKER_01]: The connection there is amazing.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But another one of those is the bow and arrow.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, the two go together because learning to shoot from horseback is what allowed the horns to take over the known world.
24:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, right, you know, it's really something that goes way, way, way back.
24:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's part of the reason why when someone picks up a bow for the first time.
24:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a hypothesis, right?
24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But maybe there's something there that they're connecting with.
24:19
[SPEAKER_01]: They pull it back, they take a breath, they try to calm their their body so that they can, you know, get a good shot, and then they release.
24:30
[SPEAKER_01]: With that release comes this hope.
24:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the rest goes away.
24:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, why not?
24:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been programmed for thousands of years by this exercise.
24:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
24:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Modern firearms are only a couple hundred years old.
24:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Previous to that.
24:45
[SPEAKER_02]: most warfare or predominant levels of hunting were with a boat.
24:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
24:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Well this is beginning to make a lot more sense to me and I've long connected a bow or archer.
24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You will just say it that way.
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I've long connected archery with nature.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And it seems like any time, you know, you're going to go out to shoot.
25:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to go to a space where you have room, you're outside, right?
25:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But then the idea of doing kind of a challenge course, where you're hiking through, you're getting your heart rate up, and then you have all these additional inputs to make it even harder, I get it.
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I can see how that could be really beneficial.
25:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell you what, Sam, can you recount?
25:27
[SPEAKER_01]: an anecdote or two about people that have come to your club to your business and they've started shooting and how it impacted their lives positively.
25:41
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25:44
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25:56
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26:10
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26:45
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26:57
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27:04
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27:09
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27:13
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27:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But like I said, I mentioned the Marine Corvette just from this past weekend.
27:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got a Army veteran and his son.
27:33
[SPEAKER_02]: They have come to five of the seven events in 2025.
27:37
[SPEAKER_02]: They've absolutely enjoyed it.
27:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And the boys only nine years old.
27:40
[SPEAKER_02]: They've had a wonderful time.
27:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Danny is the father's name.
27:43
[SPEAKER_02]: He's come out and he said, you know, every event is different.
27:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And I appreciate that.
27:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Every different scenario is different.
27:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So even if I've got,
27:51
[SPEAKER_02]: The same shooting scenario, but it's a different target in a different direction or a different angle.
27:56
[SPEAKER_02]: He said it creates a new challenge every time.
27:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And for Danny, as an army vet, it's a an opportunity for him to destress.
28:04
[SPEAKER_02]: B, he said it's a fantastic and wonderful opportunity for him to connect with his nine-year-old son and do something different outside of what they normally do.
28:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It just gives him a whole different space to play in.
28:18
[SPEAKER_01]: that's super cool.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, another thing I like about it is the stealthy nature of it, the silence of it.
28:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
28:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's don't know why that is quiet.
28:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, instead of a big bang, you know, you've got a dwind.
28:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It is that.
28:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if that you know to go out here that arrow thump that target's a flack and you know it's a solid here It's not when you hear that flack, but otherwise it's just a Or even if it misses in it hits the tree or whatever the steel plate that I've because I do have steel challenges in there as well So if you hear arrow hit and it's off steel it goes ping and then I laugh because that's it just fun for me It's not my arrow
28:57
[SPEAKER_02]: The arrow has been done, right?
28:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the arrow's destroyed.
29:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But creating those different challenges and things that will make people stop, take a breath, slow down, really think about what that shot is, and how to make it.
29:11
[SPEAKER_02]: In the design of the course that I've laid out, hey, it's fun for me to lay it out.
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Be it's great for them to experience something different every time.
29:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, when you started shooting, I mean, you already described a little bit how it impacted your life.
29:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It gave you a new focus.
29:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But can you go into a little bit of detail?
29:30
[SPEAKER_01]: What was it about archery that was so compelling?
29:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of like I mentioned, I spent years in the competitive firearm space where there was IDPA, Epsychus, PSA,
29:40
[SPEAKER_02]: two-ven three-gun indoor combat at the exporting clays.
29:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I played the gambit of different firearms and kind of what those scenarios built.
29:48
[SPEAKER_02]: The common theme across almost all of those is they put up a human silhouette downrange for me to shoot at.
29:55
[SPEAKER_02]: From veteran perspective, obviously it wasn't the best scenario for me because it kept reintroducing problems or reintroducing those stressors.
30:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I never picked it up until my buddy called me out on it.
30:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But going to a bow and
30:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you mentioned, a bow is quiet.
30:12
[SPEAKER_02]: A bow is therapeutic just in the the mental physical nature of you don't have it's not just holding a rifle and pulling a trigger.
30:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It's physical 65 pounds of draw to pull it back.
30:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the mental focus to be able to control that draw weight.
30:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Focus where you're at that pin is on the target.
30:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Let it go.
30:32
[SPEAKER_02]: and changing the targets up to where you like to mention a flamingo, a porcupine, a big foot, a yeti armadillo, whatever the case may be.
30:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not that human silhouette downrange, so it just creates a calmer space overall.
30:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Being as it's an outdoor adventure, and it's kind of that hike that's in the background, you're getting a full body mental head to toe workout all the way through.
30:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's neat.
30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know where this question's going to go, but I have to ask,
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'd be shooting fairly horizontally, and I would miss the target, and then the arrow would bury itself in the grass.
31:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Just vanishes.
31:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And is there a way to not lose all your arrows?
31:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Over the years, I've found that using so the you mentioned chicken feathers on the back end of your arrows that you're building.
31:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are called veins or feathers, depending on which type of arrow you're working with.
31:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I have found that pink and white stick out the most for me.
31:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So if I use pink and white veins on the back end of my arrow, I can usually see it whether them up in the mountains or whether I'm in the deep scrub or in the sagebrush.
31:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are the ones that are bright enough that stick out for me.
31:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Modern technology has come a long way.
31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So, the knock that is at the very back of the arrow that actually attaches to the string to control that arrow with the string, they've made electronic LED knocks that light up now.
31:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So, whether it's red or green or blue or pink.
31:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, pull the bow string back, that arrow's already knocked.
31:57
[SPEAKER_02]: When you let go of that arrow, there's a little switch inside of that knock that allows that turns that light on in that arrow.
32:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, it becomes lit up as it's in flight.
32:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
32:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So, let me shift gears a little bit.
32:10
[SPEAKER_01]: We already talked about the history of Bose and arrows and how far back it goes.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Finding arrowheads.
32:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's, those that can go out and do it and have the patience for it.
32:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Good on you.
32:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's, it's interesting.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I just did a real quick look to see what the legality is because some people like to collect aeroheds and one have you.
32:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And my understanding is if you're on private property and yet permission, and you're not digging for it, then, you know, that's okay.
32:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not supposed to remove artifacts from any public lands, obviously.
32:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just say that straight up, but I want to tell you a couple of stories of just to get your response because it's on topic It has to do with nature and it has to do with our cheering it has to do with arrowheads.
32:51
[SPEAKER_01]: My dad and I were standing in a gravel bar And when I say gravel bar, it was flint gravel just the same material that arrowheads have made out of and we're standing on a pile of I don't know a million small stones, right?
33:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's what gravel is, and my dad just, all of a sudden, he wasn't looking for it.
33:12
[SPEAKER_01]: He just all of a sudden reaches down and picks up an arrowhead and hands it to me.
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like it reached out to him, and I know that sounds, that sounds really strange.
33:20
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it sounds about right.
33:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this arrowhead was actually from one of the earliest human groups after the last Ice Age.
33:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that arrowhead best as I can tell was over 10,000 years old.
33:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, okay, we just connected.
33:38
[SPEAKER_01]: with a human being.
33:39
[SPEAKER_01]: History all the way back.
33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone shaped this by hand and used it to live to survive.
33:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's another thing about arrowheads that I find so fascinating is that you almost always find broken ones.
33:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason is because a broken one is the one that, you know, underweat behind.
33:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
34:01
[SPEAKER_01]: if you find a complete arrowhead it was lost because it was a lot of work they were valuable you know you're not going to leave one behind if it's still useful the only way that you would lose that arrowhead is if it was in an animal that ran away or you shot it into the weeds like I always did you couldn't find it right.
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: but it was kind of interesting because you can spot once you have an eye for it, you can spot broken arrowheads all day long but finding one without a break in it, you know, that's really rare and really really special.
34:31
[SPEAKER_01]: One last story and then I want your response to this.
34:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I was on my motorcycle on a dirt road, gravel road.
34:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm flying down this road.
34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably doing 25 miles an hour.
34:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw an arrowhead in the gravel as I went flying 30 miles an
34:47
[SPEAKER_01]: and i went back and had to respawn it and picked it up and it was the arrowhead on one side it had uh... that just these are just colors in the flint veins in the you know mineral veins in the rock but on one side it has a bear's head and in the other side it has a woman's face with their her hair blowing past her face okay
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, what is that about?
35:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you how down to someone.
35:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's start with if you saw an arrowhead while you're riding your motorcycle at 20 miles an hour, you're not focused on the right thing.
35:21
[SPEAKER_02]: You should be focused on the road, but to find it with any type of imprints even if it's got, you know, whether it's just coloring in the rock or whatever the case may be.
35:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you mentioned, there was a lot of work, effort, time, energy that went into making those throughout the centuries, and they all have some level of emotional attachment.
35:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So if someone said, you know, this is for my bare hunt this year, there's a chance that that's where it went, and this is, you know, my significant other.
35:45
[SPEAKER_02]: that that's where that goes.
35:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Now this is my lucky charm as it were.
35:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever the case may be, yeah.
35:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And whether that was carved or etched or like you said coloring in the rocks, that's you found the right rock in order to make the the chips that you wanted for it to bring that bear out of the side of it, that's pretty cool.
36:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the part that I don't know about, and I'll just throw this out there, and people can laugh at me, that's fine.
36:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know is how I start this.
36:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not claiming anything.
36:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying I don't know.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But it seems to me that if you go into nature and you're willing to accept that it's mysterious and there are things we don't know.
36:21
[SPEAKER_01]: you'll have experiences that you'll kind of go you know I could I could discount that and say all that was nothing or I could say no that was that was pretty unique and it's mysterious and I don't understand it um let's call it about 13 to 14 years ago I was up for an elk hunt here in Colorado was going up over a saddle in between two little mountains dropping down into the next valley
36:44
[SPEAKER_02]: and I was pretty deep in.
36:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I was probably three to four miles back from the nearest camper and I was probably two miles from my own truck.
36:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And once I hit one over the top of the saddle and started dropping down in, I found an old campsite.
36:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Meaning probably I would guess two to three years old, where the tent and the sleeping bag were still up there.
37:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the gear was still in there, but it was all weather worn, sun bleached, wind beat up, tore up.
37:09
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, but it was still was there.
37:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I said, when you get out there into you allow nature to be nature, and I've got up there and just calm and quiet and I can along and found that and went, I'm curious to what happened here, but I don't want to hang out to find out.
37:24
[SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting.
37:25
[SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting.
37:27
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a hunter, I think it was two or three years ago now here in Colorado, kind of a similar scenario, found a pile of bones that were not elk deer bear.
37:36
[SPEAKER_02]: wound up being a hunter that had passed away 30 some years ago, and the wallet was within arms reach that pile of bones.
37:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That hunter was able to return that wallet to the family and close that loop for that family that lost that family member hunter decades ago.
37:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, these are crazy stories.
37:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I do have a theory and again, no one has to agree with this.
37:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a theory.
38:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But my theory is that I'm human consciousness.
38:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you see it in the animal world all the time.
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you see a flock of starlings flying by and they seem to fly with one mind, I have seen animals react universally all at once, different species, all reacting together.
38:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, how did they all know?
38:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Or here's another one, Sandhill Crane's.
38:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched as a great example.
38:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I watched a flock of these cranes in the Platt River.
38:32
[SPEAKER_01]: As morning came on, they start squawking and making all their racket, and it goes on for several minutes before they finally take flight to go into the fields and try to find some food.
38:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But I thought that one of them would squawk a different squawk,
38:46
[SPEAKER_01]: and then one would start to fly and they would all follow.
38:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Or something like that.
38:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's no what happened.
38:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Somewhere around 100,000 birds leapt out of the water simultaneously.
38:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to the millisecond, I'm like, okay, we have senses that we can't explain and I'm not going to try to explain it, but I'd this ties into everything we're talking about.
39:07
[SPEAKER_01]: We see it in the animal kingdom and it's part of what, you know, it's part of the skill set that helps them survive.
39:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, I'm sure it's some of it's a level of instinct built in.
39:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Elkherd, great example of her in Colorado.
39:22
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a matriarch of the herd, and that's the bleed cow of the Elkherd.
39:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, while there's a bull elk that kind of runs and dominates what that herd does and what it looks like, but he is really there kind of like a lion.
39:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He's there to breed.
39:35
[SPEAKER_02]: where is the matriarch really runs that elk herd?
39:38
[SPEAKER_02]: What that matriarch decides to go and where she decides to go, what she decides to go, where she decides to go, she's hungry, that whole herd is going to go get food.
39:46
[SPEAKER_02]: If she wants water, that whole herd is going to go during the same time.
39:50
[SPEAKER_02]: That level of instinct throughout that species plays into, I think, to your point, what we do, we just lost that deep instinct because of the technology that we're working on now.
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, here's the question, is it possible that the arrowhead not itself, but the lost arrowhead somehow is connected to the human emotion that was tied into it, the intention of that human, that lost it, that shaped it, that relied on it for life.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and then across across time, somehow we can, we still have a deep in for you.
40:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, is that possible?
40:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, anything's possible.
40:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, there's things that we can't explain anymore.
40:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Even with all the science and technology that we have, there's things we can't explain.
40:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, it's entirely possible.
40:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess it kind of rolls full circle back into what I was talking about the deep history of the bow and arrow and the epigenetic connections to it and how important it was to people.
40:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's maybe that's part of why it's so effective that you've discovered it's so effective to encourage people.
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I don't know.
40:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Certainly right back up of get out and try it.
40:59
[SPEAKER_02]: and see where it leads you.
41:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's get into a little bit of the how-to.
41:03
[SPEAKER_01]: If someone wants to try archery, they can come to you and try it.
41:06
[SPEAKER_01]: That's absolutely.
41:07
[SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome.
41:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're in Colorado Springs and your company is Valor Archery Challenge.
41:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
41:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So people can find you that way and go out and try it.
41:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I recommend that.
41:18
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's somewhere else and they're not around Colorado Springs, what's a good way for people to get to try it and be introduced into the sport.
41:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So depending on where they are, there's a couple other businesses that are similar to what I'm doing, especially for the military and veteran focus.
41:34
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a handful of others throughout the country.
41:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Finding one of those that's close and proximity to you, great.
41:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, go to your nearest archery range, go to your nearest archery shop, bow shop, and say, I would like to try a bow.
41:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Explain to that shop person technician owner, whatever the case may be.
41:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Explain to them, I would like to try archery.
41:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I may be want to hunt, I may be want to target shoot, I may be want to compete.
41:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And they will put the right bow in your hands for whatever that scenario is going to be.
42:02
[SPEAKER_02]: If they're not putting the right bow in your hands, reach out, I'm happy to answer questions, and then we go from there.
42:08
[SPEAKER_01]: last cool.
42:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're different types of bows you mentioned a couple of them.
42:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The reserve.
42:14
[SPEAKER_01]: We've heard one of those compounds.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Long bows.
42:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, explain what these are.
42:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So people know.
42:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So long bow think of it medieval style long bow.
42:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It is just to your point.
42:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It's that stick and string.
42:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a long piece of wood bent with a string attached that just sends an arrow at a lower speed but a higher draw weight typically because you're forcefully bending that stick
42:37
[SPEAKER_02]: A recurve is a similar stick and string.
42:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Only the ends of the bows are twisted out, so it allows for a little bit more bend, a little bit easier pull.
42:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes they have more draw weight.
42:48
[SPEAKER_02]: My rental bows for kids are at 15 pounds, so it's pretty easy for anybody to grab a hold and send pull back.
42:55
[SPEAKER_02]: My adult rentals are at 30 pounds.
42:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, whether you're a small frame big frame it really gives the opportunity for anybody to grab a hold of it and send an arrow.
43:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you get into the compound space, and that's where all the draw weight is up front, but when you hit the cams on the end of the limbs, the cams roll and allow that draw weight to reduce, usually by 80 to 90%.
43:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So to go from a 65 pound draw to 12 pounds, and you can hold that 12 pound back for extended periods of time.
43:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Whether you're target shooting, it allows for an easier target shoot.
43:27
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're hunting with it, it allows that animal to
43:29
[SPEAKER_02]: move out from behind the trees so you can wait to take the shot, plenty of different opportunities for affordability or availability and you know what your shoulders can handle.
43:39
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, the compound is super cool technology, the way that it does that.
43:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's something to be said for the the recurve or the long bow and that when you pull back something that takes that much strength and then you have to hold it long enough to aim.
43:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That's part of the sport, right?
43:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
43:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So where is like the mentions of the compound?
44:00
[SPEAKER_02]: All the draw way is up front.
44:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You put that draw weight and then that those cams are all over it breaks that
44:09
[SPEAKER_02]: to your point with the recurs, it is low draw weight up front, but the farther you pull back, the harder that the heavier that draw weight is, so it's three pounds here, it's 30 pounds here, it's full draw, and to be able to hold that 30 pounds back to get a lot more energy.
44:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I want more focus.
44:27
[SPEAKER_01]: If I remember correctly, the real bow that I shot as a kid was a 45-pound bow.
44:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That's...
44:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a kid.
44:35
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a very stout bow, yeah.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was really, really hard for me.
44:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And my dad shot, I believe, at 55.
44:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Which sounds about right.
44:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember one day, and I don't have any information about this at all, except for this memory.
44:49
[SPEAKER_01]: My dad and I were supposedly bow-hunning, though I don't think we were actually hunting.
44:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We're walking through the woods with bows,
44:55
[SPEAKER_01]: We came across some people in a Jeep and they stopped and my dad visited with these people a little bit and they drove away and my dad says well that's the world's champion archery shooter right there.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and I thought, wow, how does that happen?
45:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, at the time, the person at one had were in a world championship.
45:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just remember as a kid thinking, I'm at Robin Hood.
45:23
[UNKNOWN]: Right?
45:23
[SPEAKER_01]: No one.
45:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But that was back when they were shooting, they weren't shooting compounds.
45:27
[SPEAKER_01]: They were shooting recurps.
45:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were, they were high weight bows, I think, so that they could get a straighter shot.
45:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Even today, if you're talking to a 65 pound recurve, that's a lot of draw weight, that tears your shoulders up pretty fast.
45:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I know plenty of guys that are out there doing it, and guys that are hunt with them, and more power to you, that's a lot more skill.
45:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause again, you don't have the people site, you don't have the front site, you don't have target pins, you're just pull it back, and it is an instinctual style of shooting to get that error to go where you want it to be.
46:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So that is all just truly repetition.
46:05
[SPEAKER_01]: There's something I'm gonna throw a little math in here, Sam, and everyone out there forgive me, but I actually was a math major, so I have to do it.
46:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Any type of projectile, right?
46:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Integrality will travels in a parabolic arch.
46:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And you learn this in the military, I'm sure, if you wanna aim in Abrams Tank, you've gotta understand that parabola and how to aim it.
46:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But all of that said, think about football or baseball or archery.
46:35
[SPEAKER_01]: If you had to mathematically write out the formula to hit your target.
46:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The amount of math involved there, first of all, is the second order equation.
46:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very complex.
46:44
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about quadratics.
46:45
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about, you know, if you're trying to figure out how fast it needs to go, what angle it needs to leave the launch point to go the distance to hit the target.
46:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It is so complex.
46:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's it's algebra 2 level stuff and he one could do it, but the amount of time it would take to calculate it would be ridiculous, but we do that instinctually.
47:05
[SPEAKER_02]: To an extent, to an extent, with the compound bows, you know, when you're start talking about 65 pound draw weight,
47:13
[SPEAKER_02]: at 29 and a half inch draw length and then the arrow weighs 450 greens or whatever the case may be.
47:19
[SPEAKER_02]: They're thankfully there already websites that build those site tapes for your site.
47:25
[SPEAKER_02]: They've already done all that math and calculated that so it makes it easier.
47:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you're talking about a recurve or a longbow, yeah, you are correct.
47:32
[SPEAKER_02]: You're doing it in your head.
47:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So, for the event on Sunday that I just had, I had handful of targets that were 25, 30 yards at most, but I put one out there at about 55 yards.
47:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And for a recurve, that's a really long shot.
47:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But I told the folks that were out there, hey, look, when you get to that target, you're welcome to move up, or you're welcome to shoot it from the cone.
47:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's funny to see the people they draw back, and they angle a little bit more.
47:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Let it go back and lean back with it and let that arrow go and see where it comes up at.
48:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's your there's your problem and your trajectory going in full extent right there.
48:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and it becomes second nature if you shoot enough you start hitting things because you just see it and you judge the distance without measuring.
48:15
[SPEAKER_01]: you know how what the angle needs to be without measuring.
48:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's, it's fascinating.
48:20
[SPEAKER_01]: The way that that can work.
48:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing as a quarterback throwing a football, you know, 75 yards and hitting a moving target perfectly.
48:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what on earth?
48:31
[SPEAKER_01]: The math behind that is so complex.
48:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It took the time to even begin it.
48:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You would have lost your opportunity, right?
48:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But something about, and I'm just gonna say, I think that's another reason why archery is so appealing
48:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's because it's almost magic.
48:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
48:48
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a great way to word it.
48:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It is.
48:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But from a healing perspective, it is that magic.
48:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Just from a getting out there and experiencing it, it's just, like I said, the Marine Corps veteran in this past week instead, it's just therapeutic.
49:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It's exhaustive breath of just, okay, everything washes away.
49:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
49:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I had never really put that together until you mentioned it.
49:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I thought, oh.
49:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's one of the reasons as a kid that that little persimmon bow when I had so much fun.
49:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
49:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Just made such a huge impact.
49:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, I don't know.
49:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, thousands of hours.
49:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I messed with that bow.
49:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and for the scenario that you were in, that was probably your positive impact in your life, because you could see that arrow that that...
49:32
[SPEAKER_02]: twig that stick with the chicken feathers to go out and hit that target.
49:37
[SPEAKER_02]: We're missing figure out how to accommodate for it.
49:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm going to throw this in there too.
49:41
[SPEAKER_01]: If there are any Greek scholars out there, there's a word, harmatia.
49:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you familiar with it, Sam?
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not.
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: The word means to miss the target.
49:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
49:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And that word is translated from the Greek into English as sin.
49:53
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
49:53
[SPEAKER_01]: okay.
49:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it makes sense.
49:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's how far back these concepts go that when we miss the mark in our lives.
50:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And we face the consequences where that's a lost arrow or a lost meal or whatever it is.
50:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
50:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how far back.
50:12
[SPEAKER_01]: This stuff goes, ancient, ancient concepts.
50:16
[SPEAKER_02]: When you look at petroglyphs, higher glyphs, whatever the case may be, you've seen the hunters that are out there with the spears, and there's also at least one or two that have a bow.
50:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And some of those petroglyphs higher glyphs are thousands of years old at this point.
50:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Our tree's been around a long time.
50:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It will be around a long time past us.
50:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, so if someone wants to buy a bow and they're just starting out and like I want to learn how to shoot and let's Let's say that they want to start with a recurve.
50:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I just making that up, but what are your recommendations?
50:47
[SPEAKER_01]: What, what should they be looking for?
50:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So, first and foremost, understand what you want to use the bow for.
50:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I said, whether that's target shooting, whether that's hunting, whether that's competing with it.
50:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And those are three very different categories.
51:00
[SPEAKER_02]: But understanding what that in goal for your bow is, will really drive which bow that that shop owner, that archery tech, that bow tech will send you down the path.
51:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So, understand what your in goal is.
51:13
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll help push the right bow into your hands.
51:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't buy the first bow that you touch.
51:17
[SPEAKER_02]: If you've got several different archery stores in your local area, even with its 50 miles, 70 miles, go to each of those archery shops and say, same scenario, I want to compete, I want to target shoot, or I want to hunt with it.
51:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And each of those will carry a different brand a different model, try out each of them.
51:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Figure out which one feels best for you and what's in your price range.
51:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Go with that to start with, and then as you skill set improves, and as your knowledge of archery improves, then you've got a better idea of, okay, now I know I need this, this, and this, or I want to look more towards this, this, and this for my next bow.
51:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I shot my first compound for five years before I did any upgrades.
51:59
[SPEAKER_02]: By then I was outshaving what it was capable of, and I've had to upgrade
52:07
[SPEAKER_01]: it just keeps going and going.
52:09
[SPEAKER_01]: What about arrows?
52:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of the same scenario, you're going to start with whatever the store has in stock and what's easily available in affordable for you.
52:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Know that you're going to lose them, know that you're going to break them, know that you're probably going to go through two dozen arrows in your first six to eight months.
52:24
[SPEAKER_02]: by what you can afford.
52:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Shoot what you can afford.
52:27
[SPEAKER_02]: As your skill set improves, as your knowledge improves, and as your aim improves, then you can start getting tweaking into, you know what, I'm ten years in, and I'm going to start building my own arrows, where it's, I buy a bear shaft arrow, which has nothing on it.
52:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Add my own veins or fletchings to it.
52:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I do use glue and insert the tip by the light it up knocks, because that's what I want.
52:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm less likely to lose those arrows.
52:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, the rabbit hole is bottomless at this point.
52:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's fun.
52:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you really want to get into the rabbit hole, make your own arrows and flesh them yourself from natural materials and see what your ancestors were up against.
53:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a whole different skill set.
53:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of time and effort and energy and you'll be very, very cautious about losing them.
53:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a great way to connect with deep history, I think.
53:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very, very cool.
53:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Different types of points.
53:19
[SPEAKER_01]: They're broad heads, they're target practice points.
53:22
[SPEAKER_01]: What, what should people be aware of?
53:24
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're normal target competition shooting, stick with field points, they're usually rounded or very poiny.
53:32
[SPEAKER_02]: But their bullet looking shape brought heads usually have blades attached, whether it's mechanical or fixed blade broadheads.
53:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are really designed for hunting purposes, so avoid any broadheads unless you're truly going hunting.
53:45
[SPEAKER_02]: If you've got see something that says blunt tip or judo tip, those are for hunting small games, so whether it's squirrels, rabbits, grass, whatever the case may be there.
53:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But stick with the field points if you're going to shoot competitions or targets.
53:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
53:58
[SPEAKER_01]: and a big one, we've not even touched on.
54:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Safety.
54:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Safety is the fun part.
54:03
[SPEAKER_02]: The archery community is very, very helpful.
54:05
[SPEAKER_02]: More so than the firearms community.
54:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you go to the gun range and you say, you know, I got a new gun and I've never shot before.
54:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's kind of kind of back away from your real slow.
54:14
[SPEAKER_02]: there might be one or two that you know step up to try and help you but really you're on your own.
54:18
[SPEAKER_02]: The archery community is not like that.
54:20
[SPEAKER_02]: If you go to the if you go to a archery store you go to a archery range and you say I just bought the boat last weekend there's going to be several guys that step up and say can we help can we coach can we drive you in the right direction.
54:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it really is a totally different community.
54:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So one thing that I was surprised to learn is that you can fill a coffee canful of sand and they don't catch a bullet from a rifle or from a handgun easily.
54:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But you can shoot an arrow all the way through the hand.
54:49
[SPEAKER_01]: All the way through that will go all the way through and in a sense, it's kind of surprising.
54:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the gun will shoot further, but the amount of momentum.
54:58
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of kinetic energy inside of an arrow for those that are firearms-related folks.
55:03
[SPEAKER_02]: If you think about a 9-mill pistol, that bullet that leaves the end of the barrel is half inch long and weighs about 115 grains and it's doing about 900 feet per second.
55:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So that kind of, that's that kinetic energy that builds in a trajectory for that short shot, but hugely impactful.
55:21
[SPEAKER_02]: But it comes to a very quick stop when you put it in sand.
55:24
[SPEAKER_02]: that arrow on the other hand.
55:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Most hunting target arrows are in the range of 350 to 450 grains.
55:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Some go into the if you're hunting big game hippo type things you're in the 800 grain arrow.
55:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're doing about, or 300 feet per second.
55:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So that kinetic energy that's built into those arrows is considerable.
55:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
55:44
[SPEAKER_01]: We could go into the math, but I'm going to skip that this time.
55:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you do them, the momentum calculations, it becomes apparent, which one actually carries the bigger punch.
55:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess that's kind of what that's about.
55:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about one more thing, Sam, and maybe we can wrap this up.
55:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
56:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm mentioning this.
56:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about a story related to archery.
56:05
[SPEAKER_01]: that had a big impact on you.
56:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be a time to things when really, really well or time to things went poorly or something that just changed your outlook on, you know, whatever.
56:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But think about that.
56:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want to mention one more thing.
56:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is looking behind your target.
56:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, that's a safety thing.
56:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You always want to look behind your target because your projectile might go through the target.
56:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You might miss the target.
56:27
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to know what's on the other side.
56:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's also a lesson for life.
56:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm throwing this one out there
56:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We should always look beyond our target for wisdom.
56:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And I say it really well with that.
56:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that third beer at the bar might look really, really good as a close-up target, but if you can look on the other side of that to your DUI, or now you're going to fill the next morning and might change your decision matrix.
56:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a great way to word that.
56:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.
56:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, there's so many things in life where the short quick decision, the quick target, looks so rewarding, but if we look beyond it, we might make a different decision.
57:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a metaphor for Marchery that I've clung onto.
57:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's helped me in life.
57:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So, now to the question.
57:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell us a story about something that had a big impact on you?
57:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me give you a scenario first, and then I'll tell you a story.
57:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a scenario.
57:24
[SPEAKER_02]: If we go back to the my August event this year for Colorado, Dorisman Days Partnership, I had a flat open chunk of field to work in.
57:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It was flat, not a tree, not a scrub, not a blade of grass, higher than six inches.
57:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything was wide out in the open.
57:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, how do you create a challenge in a wide open, flat chunk of scenario like that?
57:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So I put two targets.
57:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you got to shooting cone number 11, there was two targets.
57:50
[SPEAKER_02]: one was up close and one was a distance.
57:53
[SPEAKER_02]: The one was up close had a steel deflector, whether it was a piece of rebar, whether it was a steel panel, whether it was a steel fence line.
58:00
[SPEAKER_02]: That creates that level of challenge up close.
58:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Or you can shoot the exact same target out of distance with no steel deflector.
58:07
[SPEAKER_02]: You get to take the reward or pick the reward that you want.
58:11
[SPEAKER_02]: The long shot or the short, up-close challenging, I may break an arrow.
58:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, instant feedback instead of reward, right?
58:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so when we go kind of to your point of think about what's beyond your target.
58:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Most of my events I build in a backstop behind the target so that if you do miss the target completely, there's a backstop behind it.
58:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You may not like that backstop.
58:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It may be rocks.
58:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It may be the far side of a creek where your feet are going to get wet, but there's always a backstop.
58:38
[SPEAKER_02]: when you look in a hunting perspective, that backstop might be another animal behind it.
58:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And in Colorado, you were licensed for one animal, not two.
58:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, your target and what's beyond it.
58:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a key thing when you go through a hunter's eye program.
58:52
[SPEAKER_02]: For me, I had a scenario where I let a narrow go.
58:56
[SPEAKER_02]: hit the one deer.
58:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Thankfully, and I didn't see the other deer because she was predominantly behind another tree behind it.
59:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But it went through the first deer, and I caught just into the edge of the tree behind her.
59:09
[SPEAKER_02]: If I'd have been another half inch to the right, it would have hit the second deer.
59:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So thankfully it hit the tree that ruined my arrow, but
59:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I did get my deer on the ground.
59:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I was able to harvest that animal and bring it home safely, but it really had me thinking after the fact of, hey, for the next year, for next season, for future seasons, I need to be of where better of what's beyond my target because my arrow is going to pass through that deer all the way through and understanding where that's going to go after the pack.
59:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, yeah, like we were talking about that is a metaphor for life.
59:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
59:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Understand that back as well.
59:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you understand that it's called Parmatia.
59:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's their consequences, perhaps, for our decisions.
59:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's fun.
59:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Sam, thank you very much for your time today.
59:55
[SPEAKER_01]: We've already found through an hour, which is amazing, and how can people get more information?
1:00:00
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're interested in our tree challenge.com, the website stays up to date with all the events.
1:00:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing is booked out until April 25th of next year, but we do have 10 events booked here in Colorado for next year.
1:00:11
[SPEAKER_02]: That's potentially going to jump to 11.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I have another conversation next week with a couple of folks.
1:00:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but yeah, come on out, grab a bow, sling some arrows, have some fun, win some raffle prizes, uh, give away $14,000 worth of gear this year from most of my sponsors.
1:00:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So, just an opportunity to come out and have fun and enjoy the day.
1:00:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And that might be the most important part.
1:00:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Come out, have some fun, meet some other people who are enjoying this and spend some time together.
1:00:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's a wonderful thing.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Can people reach you through the website as well as their contact us option for support at BellararcharyChallenge.com.
1:00:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right Sam, well thank you very much, I appreciate your time.
1:00:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for the second, appreciate it.
1:00:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you bet and for all the listeners out there, hey, another option we've not talked about on the adventure sports podcast before, but a new way to get out there and have some fun.