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STSE #78: Extremism in Dogs · Sometimes There's Side Eye

• 0:12
  Welcome to Sometimes There's Side Eye, a podcast about two
• 0:16
  friends having real and unfiltered conversations about
• 0:19
  dogs and people listen as we talk about our lives with dogs,
• 0:23
  training, behavior, share some laughs and a whole lot of
• 0:27
  banter. I'm Heather.
• 0:30
  And I'm Christy, what are we talking about this week,
• 0:33
  Heather? This week we are going to talk
• 0:36
  about one of my pet peeves. So many of them.
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  To choose from. It's true it's true we are going
• 0:43
  to talk about extremism in dogs. I I don't even remember why I
• 0:51
  sent Christy a voice note this week.
• 0:53
  Something happened. I was listening to something or
• 0:58
  I saw something on social media. Who the hell knows.
• 1:01
  But I send Christy a voice note as I'm pulling into my Starbucks
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  and I'm like Christy, I think we should do an episode on extremes
• 1:12
  in dogs. And I start ranting off all
• 1:14
  these subjects. So I wanted to do an episode
• 1:19
  about it because I think we talk about it here and there,
• 1:22
  probably more me than you. And we did touch on it when we
• 1:26
  were doing our series about ethical breeders and responsible
• 1:31
  rescue. But I think that there are a lot
• 1:33
  of areas where people really go to extremes in dogs and.
• 1:37
  I know never. I know it's like there are
• 1:41
  certain subjects that I will not talk to just anyone in the
• 1:44
  public about when it comes to dogs because I'm like, I don't
• 1:47
  even want to deal with it. And when did talking about what
• 1:49
  you feed your dog become like a taboo subject?
• 1:53
  I. Feel like it is.
• 1:55
  It is totally. I I cannot.
• 1:58
  I cannot. So anyway, that was my idea.
• 2:03
  So I was kind of, you know, thinking what are areas that
• 2:08
  people really kind of go all the way left, all the way right on?
• 2:12
  And what do we do about that? And really it's on brand for us
• 2:18
  because I just feel like we should always lead with
• 2:20
  compassion and remember that everyone has different
• 2:23
  experiences and that shapes who they are and that shapes how
• 2:31
  they move in the world. And so although you might have
• 2:35
  an experience that sends you, you know, way to one side,
• 2:38
  somebody else has the opposite. And, and depending on where they
• 2:42
  are in life and where they're where their heads at and their
• 2:45
  hearts at, you could really like hurt somebody if you took
• 2:49
  things, took things too far. So I feel like that's on brand
• 2:53
  for us. Yeah.
• 2:55
  Do you want to talk about what happened in your algorithm?
• 2:59
  So then Christy started getting stream videos recommended to her
• 3:04
  and her algorithm. If you guys could see my eye
• 3:08
  roll right now, like I'm telling you, she sends this to me and
• 3:13
  she's she mentions vaccines and I get like all of a sudden both
• 3:19
  sides like don't vaccinate anything, vaccinate everything.
• 3:23
  Vaccines are poison. Vaccines are miracles.
• 3:26
  I love it. I don't even think we're about
• 3:29
  vaccines. Please totally listen to me.
• 3:31
  And now, after this conversation, I'm going to get
• 3:33
  so many more. It's probably true your.
• 3:36
  Phone is always listening, yes. It is so something happened
• 3:41
  where I started following someone on Facebook and watching
• 3:45
  videos and this person is very, very, very breeder focused and
• 3:52
  ethical breeder focused. And she has some very strong
• 3:56
  views. And Christy was going on her
• 4:00
  page and trying to make comments that where people could see the
• 4:05
  other side and, you know, because I consider her very
• 4:09
  extreme. And I told Christy I was like,
• 4:14
  what are you doing? Like, why are you doing this to
• 4:17
  yourself? You should actually just block
• 4:19
  her because it's going to drive you crazy.
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  And what was your? Yeah, and all my infinite
• 4:26
  wisdom, I said. But if I don't tell them how,
• 4:29
  well they know they're wrong. But honey, what did I say back
• 4:33
  to you? They don't care what you have to
• 4:36
  say because they are extremist. And so also like as you come
• 4:43
  across people like that, remember, and maybe it's like 47
• 4:47
  year old Heather, protect your peace people at all costs
• 4:50
  because. I also did not really think they
• 4:55
  that the world is relying on me to know they're wrong about
• 4:58
  things. But but after Heather pointed
• 5:00
  out like I was, I was sucking water out of a sinking ship, I
• 5:05
  was like, well, I have to come up with something.
• 5:08
  Yeah. The reason I'm doing it?
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  But I mean seriously, protect your peace, it's not worth
• 5:13
  arguing with someone. So hot button topics that I had
• 5:21
  said in my voice. Note, as my examples were
• 5:25
  ethical breeders only, shelter dogs are garbage and nothing
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  good comes from that, which I wholeheartedly do not agree.
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  And the proof in the pudding, Mr. Bulldog, The flip side of
• 5:43
  that of course being the extreme of no one should ever breed
• 5:47
  anything ever again, and there are no ethical breeders there.
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  There is no need to ever have a dog reproduce ever again.
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  So we have the flip side of that extreme, which Christie circa
• 6:01
  1999 would have been. Whoop, whoop.
• 6:06
  Probably not. You're actually not an extreme
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  personality. But I was, I mean, I, I was
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  posting like there's no reason to go to a reader.
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  But also I will say with the people I knew at the time, I
• 6:24
  don't know if there is a still. I don't know if there was a
• 6:27
  reason for any of them to go to a.
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  Breeder Fair. Because nobody at that point in
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  my life was looking for the things that you're looking for,
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  that I'm looking for, that people who are going to ethical
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  breeders are looking for. They were just buying backyard
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  bred dogs they just wanted. A puppy.
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  Any puppy. Puppy, yeah, and, and maybe a
• 6:53
  specific breed of puppy, but like they didn't know that
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  health testing existed or that, you know, if the mom was kept
• 7:00
  well or the dad was like aggressive or, you know, they
• 7:03
  didn't know any of these things. And so I would say maybe I mean,
• 7:08
  I definitely wouldn't phrase it the same way like that.
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  There's no reason to go to a breeder because I obviously have
• 7:14
  taken quite a few steps back on that.
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  But I would maybe just say. Hey.
• 7:21
  What are you trying to get out of this?
• 7:22
  Yeah. I guess.
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  Leading with curiosity. Yes, that was going to be part.
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  Of it, yes, I jumped. The gun.
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  No, I agree. Always leading with curiosity.
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  Like why what? Like asking but asking
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  open-ended questions. Asking questions in a respectful
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  way, you know, not what feels like a judgy way, which
• 7:45
  sometimes is hard. There's an art to that.
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  There is, because I do remember there was a couple at my gym
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  years ago and they really wanted to get a rescue puppy.
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  And they went to get the rescue puppy and the people at the
• 8:00
  rescue were like, well, you work full time, why do you want a
• 8:03
  puppy and why can't you do? And so they did ask questions,
• 8:06
  but it was very accusatory and they said, you know what?
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  We'll just, we'll just go on Craigslist and buy a $25 mutt
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  like accidental breeding or, you know, backyard.
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  But they didn't care. They just wanted a puppy.
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  They wanted to go to rescue first, but they were given such
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  a hard time, they just drove him to a backyard breeder, I guess.
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  What? They still got a puppy.
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  So, like, yeah. And she had.
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  And here's the crazy thing. She had so many problems, and
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  they were such committed owners. They got trainers on board.
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  They did all the things for her without ever feeling angry or
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  upset about it. I'm thinking man.
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  They would have been a great owners.
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  Great owners have the for any rescue dog, puppy or adult, you
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  know, anything. That's the people that we want
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  in rescue. Not because the dogs have
• 9:01
  problems, but because you just want committed owners.
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  It's a missed opportunity, and I think that happens a lot when
• 9:09
  people like, can't see the forest for the trees, you know?
• 9:13
  OK, That obviously was the biggest one that I thought of
• 9:17
  dog food. So that was one of my other
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  examples and I. Before we go to dog food, can I
• 9:28
  jump back to the breeding? Go.
• 9:31
  Oh, you might kill me. So we might have to edit this
• 9:34
  out. What about doodle extremists?
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  In what way? Explain.
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  So there is no. Like pro or no?
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  At both, I think, I think that there's two extremes kind of on
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  both sides that I don't really know on the pro side other than
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  that people. That are like doodle or die I
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  mean. Doodle or die.
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  That's. Out there, That's out there,
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  yeah. OK.
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  And then on the other side, what I see a lot is like there's,
• 10:08
  there's never been an ethical doodle breeder in the history of
• 10:11
  any doodle. There's never been any mixed
• 10:14
  breed breeder who's ethical in any way, which is fascinating
• 10:21
  because I, I don't think then people necessarily understand
• 10:24
  where breeds come from because they're mixed breeds to create
• 10:29
  new breeds. Like that's what happens and I
• 10:33
  have found myself because sometimes I just like to pick a
• 10:36
  fight online. Sometimes I'm just extra spicy.
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  Christy has. Been.
• 10:43
  Known to pick a fight online? Carry on.
• 10:47
  But realistically, I don't want to pick a fight.
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  I do want people to know though, like, hey, if you're going to
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  get a doodle and that's what you're dead set on, let's find
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  you someone who's doing health testing.
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  Let's find you someone who understands puppy culture, who
• 11:03
  is selling on contracts so these guys don't end up in the
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  shelter. And if we can do that, then then
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  I do think there's an ethical path to getting a doodle.
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  And I will say when I, when I say like, hey, actually there,
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  there are doodle breeders who are doing health testing.
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  What happened last? Night we went to dinner with a
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  friend and it happened last night.
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  We told her. She was surprised to hear that
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  we knew, but. She was also very open to it,
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  but. She was surprised.
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  To hear Yeah, yeah. And what I usually get back
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  though, instead of like, oh, I didn't know that was happening.
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  Like I'd like to research that more.
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  If I, if I say, hey, here's, you know, some proof.
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  I hear no, they're not actually doing health testing.
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  They're doing, they're doing Embark testing.
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  And I say, no, actually they're doing OFA testing.
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  Well, they're just doing it. They're prelim, they're prelim
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  testing. And I'm like, actually, no, they
• 12:00
  waited. In moves.
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  Until they were two years old. Well then are they?
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  Are they testing for sports? And I said no, because that's
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  not their audience. Like, no, no, your audience.
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  They want a dog living in their home.
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  They're not. Most doodle owners are not
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  looking for their next. Sport they are not.
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  You know, and so yes, wherever, whatever I came back with, they,
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  they moved the bar to somewhere else, which I have started then
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  saying like, hey here, here's the five things I've come back
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  to you with and you keep moving the bar.
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  So it's become apparent that whatever proof I give you with
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  statistics, with websites, with everything, you're not going to,
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  you're not going to believe this or you just you, your bias, your
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  own personal bias about the matter will not allow you to
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  receive this information. Access time?
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  Yeah, that used to be me. Yeah, it used.
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  To be me. It did, yeah.
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  But but what changed my outlook actually is being open, curious
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  and leading with compassion because and and training puppies
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  and realizing what the average pet owner is actually looking
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  for for their family. And that is really what started
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  to like change things for me and be like, you know what, who am I
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  to judge? As long as the Breeders are
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  doing their due diligence to make sure that the families and
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  the puppies have a good life, we are selling on contract, we are
• 13:49
  educating, we are supporting all all the things we've already
• 13:52
  talked about a million times. Who am I to hate?
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  I, I mean, ultimately where I am at this point in my life is
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  number 1. I don't want the dogs to end up
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  without a home and #2 I don't want to see more.
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  I'll tempered dogs out in the world.
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  Those are my number. One and #2.
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  At this point in my life with what I've seen and what I know,
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  So I agree with you and I think that there's absolutely like
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  some extremes in that. I think that the doodle hate is
• 14:29
  coming down a smidge. I think that it it is a little
• 14:36
  bless just a little bit and no well, from what I see like I do,
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  and I think that because like think about it, me 10 years ago,
• 14:48
  I was hate and right. So I'm an example like people
• 14:52
  are and and I don't see people who were like doodle, doodle,
• 14:57
  doodle going. I fucking hate doodles.
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  Like that's not. Happening.
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  So like it's the people migrating from absolutely not
• 15:04
  to, I mean, just do it right. So I do think that there's some
• 15:08
  migration and I think I really do think that there's a
• 15:11
  geographic influence to the doodle situation because like
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  what I see a lot on some of the different interesting groups
• 15:25
  that have a lot of trainers in it is that people say, oh, well,
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  I'm in this area of the US, Of course we're talking to the US,
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  I'm in this area of the US. And we have a couple really
• 15:37
  solid doodle breeders here who are putting out really nice
• 15:40
  dogs. And So what I see coming through
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  my training classes and my training programs are actually
• 15:46
  really well-rounded, excellent dogs.
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  And then you have other trainers in other geographical areas that
• 15:52
  are saying, oh wow, well, everything we have is shit and
• 15:56
  they're all I'll tempered and this is what we're seeing.
• 15:58
  So it does also seem to be a geographic thing within the US.
• 16:05
  It does make sense. And I think that hopefully as
• 16:11
  people are more educated that what should be happening will
• 16:16
  continue to carry through and that people under become more
• 16:20
  educated. But as always, education is the
• 16:24
  key to all of it. And having that curious open
• 16:26
  mind. So I'll admit I was wrong on the
• 16:29
  doodles because I remember saying when doodles first became
• 16:33
  popular so many years ago, they were just starting in their
• 16:36
  popularity. I said give it five years, the
• 16:39
  shelter will be full of them. Yeah.
• 16:42
  We're still not seeing that I. Mean we see them, but.
• 16:45
  We see them come through occasionally.
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  It's not no, we're not for. The world for the amount of
• 16:53
  doodles in the world right now, we are not seeing that equal
• 16:58
  number in shelters. Because.
• 17:01
  Dogs. Yeah, because the amount of
• 17:02
  doodles that were produced during COVID is astronomical.
• 17:06
  And like all those dogs are five and six years old.
• 17:09
  And like if if those that the we should be inundated with that
• 17:15
  situation. I agree with you.
• 17:17
  I mean, it's happening. And I'm sure that too is
• 17:19
  geographical. You know, we're in a big city.
• 17:22
  So pit bulls are still the thing.
• 17:25
  Now we have King Corso's, which is terrifying.
• 17:27
  You know, we have these other breeds that are starting what?
• 17:32
  No, say King Corso, No. No, no, no, That's not what I
• 17:35
  meant. It's terrifying that like now
• 17:37
  that's what's being backyard bread.
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  That's what's. Terrifying.
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  Because it's an even bigger, even more powerful dog that's,
• 17:45
  oh, it's like the shepherds of the 80s and the Dobermans of the
• 17:49
  90s and the Rottweilers of the 2000.
• 17:51
  You know, like, I feel like Connie Corso's are like the
• 17:53
  next. And I'm like, oh, it's so scary.
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  No, I love Mia. Connie Corso.
• 17:59
  We can't just leave it with. No.
• 18:01
  Oh, gosh. No, no, no, no.
• 18:02
  That's not what I. Meant no, no, no, not at all.
• 18:06
  Not at all. OK, so that's that one.
• 18:09
  Food is so tough because there are people who are like, I only
• 18:17
  feed raw and that is all I do and every dog and it cures
• 18:22
  everything and raw is blah, blah, blah.
• 18:25
  And I'm gonna sit here like I fed a raw diet to four out of my
• 18:29
  five dogs for six years. I it was what was working for
• 18:34
  what I had going on with the dogs I owned.
• 18:37
  And it was an extremely positive thing for those dogs.
• 18:42
  When we adopted Daisy, I tried to transition her so that did I
• 18:46
  say 4 out of five? Yeah.
• 18:48
  So that she all five dogs would be on raw Daisy was not
• 18:52
  compatible with a raw diet. I tried everything.
• 18:56
  It was not compatible for her. And so if I would have just gone
• 19:03
  blindly into the night and been like on my raw escapade of like
• 19:07
  it must happen. You know, I just it wasn't what
• 19:11
  was right for her. And so I just think that there
• 19:14
  again, we have to be careful and we have to realize that just
• 19:20
  because you have had success for I don't even care if it's 20
• 19:27
  years, you might have the dog tomorrow that it doesn't work
• 19:32
  with. And also your experience is not
• 19:34
  someone else's experience. Your breed is not someone else's
• 19:37
  breed. Yeah, all the things.
• 19:39
  All the things, all the things. I also think, I mean, I think
• 19:44
  it's great when people are like, hey, I feed raw and that's all I
• 19:47
  feed my dogs and great if that's working for you.
• 19:50
  There's a lot of people who only feed raw and are very kind about
• 19:54
  it and non judgmental. However, when you start saying
• 19:58
  like everyone needs to feed raw, I think that comes from a place
• 20:01
  of privilege. Yes.
• 20:03
  Do you understand how much raw cost?
• 20:05
  Like I can either do sports with my dog or I can feed raw on my
• 20:10
  my current budget. I cannot do both as a single
• 20:13
  person. Yeah, Jackson's living on a
• 20:16
  single income and he's not bringing in any money himself.
• 20:20
  So. The warehouse decisions, it also
• 20:23
  comes from a place of privilege in relation to time and energy,
• 20:28
  because feeding a raw diet takes a lot of work and I can say that
• 20:33
  because I've done it and. The the broad diets.
• 20:37
  Yeah, but that's even more expensive, right, Right.
• 20:40
  So. So many companies.
• 20:42
  And but the research to make sure you're doing it right, to
• 20:45
  make sure it's well balanced, to make sure they're getting the
• 20:47
  supplements they need to make sure.
• 20:49
  I mean, it is a it is a whole thing.
• 20:52
  So it's, I totally agree with you.
• 20:54
  You're coming from a place of privilege when it comes to what
• 20:58
  you can afford, what time you have, what resources you have,
• 21:01
  your ability to understand new nutrition and what a dog needs
• 21:05
  and like what is accurate and what isn't.
• 21:08
  I mean, there's just so much to it.
• 21:11
  Or you can do a traditional diet, take that for whatever you
• 21:16
  want to take it for, and you can move on with your life and throw
• 21:20
  it in a cup or a bowl. I do remember we were at a sport
• 21:24
  event and it was a bunch of people like that.
• 21:26
  I feel very comfortable around and but one of the girls was
• 21:31
  sharing that her, her dad had, she was dog sitting or
• 21:35
  something. And she goes, you know, my dad's
• 21:37
  old school, he just feeds kibble and his dog's kibble is in a
• 21:41
  plastic bin in the garage. And I'm like, Oh, I don't think
• 21:46
  right now is the time to say my dog is on kibble and his kibble
• 21:50
  is in a plastic bin in the garage.
• 21:54
  And they were all like, oh, Can you imagine?
• 21:57
  Like, oh, and I'm like, Oh no, I can't imagine.
• 22:03
  Well, and also can we just acknowledge that this day and
• 22:07
  age, there are 1,000,000 things to think about, worry about and
• 22:11
  that will kill you and cause cancer for your dog.
• 22:13
  I can't worry about and think about all of those things.
• 22:18
  I literally cannot. I am hanging on by a thread most
• 22:22
  days. No, I am not using a plastic bin
• 22:25
  for my kibble like Christie and I'm not using like a plastic
• 22:29
  water bowl. But tomorrow I might because I
• 22:32
  just don't have the spoons. Give me a fucking.
• 22:34
  Break At least my water bowl's not plastic.
• 22:39
  And actually, it's just like now in the bag in the garage and.
• 22:45
  I agree with you as she's like Jesus, we only have so much.
• 22:49
  Another thing I I didn't even think about that.
• 22:52
  Yeah. It's like another way for us to
• 22:54
  judge ourselves. How dare you fail, Christy.
• 22:58
  Oh my gosh. OK, so food so much.
• 23:04
  What else did I. Well, vaccines, so.
• 23:07
  Christy literally talking about this.
• 23:09
  All I'm going to say is this, you have a vet that you pay to
• 23:14
  go to for a reason. Do your research, be as educated
• 23:19
  as you feel you have time and resources for as much as you're
• 23:22
  invested in, and then make a plan and off you go.
• 23:26
  That's all I have. I can't, I'm not gonna, I'm not
• 23:30
  gonna talk to someone about their what they feed their dog,
• 23:34
  how they their vaccination schedule or what religion they
• 23:37
  are. Absolutely no, no, no, no
• 23:40
  touching those subjects like they're all on the same level.
• 23:44
  But seriously, I mean, you pay to go to a vet and a vet is a
• 23:49
  professional. And it's no different than you
• 23:51
  paying to go to your chiropractor or you paying to go
• 23:54
  to your ENT doctor. You know they are the
• 23:58
  professional, they are the specialists, so off you go.
• 24:01
  And if you have worries about it, like talk to you bad about
• 24:05
  it in any regard, whether you're you're worried about over
• 24:09
  vaccinating or not vaccinating enough or does this really do
• 24:14
  the things it says it does? Can you provide me where you're
• 24:18
  getting your research? And that's OK to ask for like
• 24:22
  it's OK to do your research. Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:26
  But maybe don't do it on Google or TikTok.
• 24:29
  You don't. Don't do your research on
• 24:31
  TikTok. Yes, and just keep in.
• 24:33
  Mind when you're being an extremist telling people where
• 24:36
  to do their research? No, but.
• 24:38
  It's a good point because if you sit there and you're reading
• 24:41
  something and you think this feels really extreme, it
• 24:44
  probably is. Yeah, yeah.
• 24:47
  So just keep it in mind. Yeah.
• 24:51
  So what do we have? We have rescue, breeding, dog
• 24:56
  food, vaccines. Was that everything on my list?
• 25:01
  Those were like my hot topics. I feel like that I was really
• 25:05
  having an issue with. But really, it's not about the
• 25:08
  individual topics. No, that's not what.
• 25:11
  This episode's even. About training, Training as
• 25:13
  always. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:14
  Training always brings both extremes out and we're
• 25:18
  definitely more middle of the road.
• 25:20
  If I see a prong caller, I'm not calling the ASPCA.
• 25:24
  No, but if you're yanking your dog around and hanging it by a
• 25:27
  prong caller, I might. But.
• 25:29
  Honestly, if you're doing that on a flat collar, I might.
• 25:32
  True. Fair.
• 25:33
  Like fair, you know? Yeah, Yeah.
• 25:36
  So yeah. Yeah, I, I definitely think the
• 25:40
  whole training thing can get into extremes.
• 25:43
  And I probably most of our listeners or I assume aren't
• 25:48
  deep into the dog training algorithm, but there's a lot of
• 25:51
  shit going on right now in dog training and the two different
• 25:55
  spectrums fighting with each other and arguing.
• 25:58
  And I read some of it and I'm just like, y'all are like really
• 26:02
  missing the boat here. You're spending so much time and
• 26:05
  energy fighting with each other about what's right and what's
• 26:08
  wrong. Go train your dog and go help
• 26:10
  someone else train their dog. It's so, it's so toxic.
• 26:16
  And if we could just lead with the curiosity, lead with the
• 26:20
  compassion, realize that everyone starts somewhere and
• 26:24
  everyone's experiences are different.
• 26:27
  I mean, I just think that we would get so much further and
• 26:32
  learn so much more from each other that would shape our
• 26:36
  future in a much more positive way.
• 26:39
  Yeah, I think that's the best part about being curious, am
• 26:44
  compassionate is you can learn so much from other people.
• 26:49
  You can also impart knowledge when you lead with compassion.
• 26:56
  You know, when you say, oh, I love this breed of dog and I
• 27:00
  know they're a handful, I've dealt with this breed, but I
• 27:03
  still love that they're so sassy.
• 27:06
  And what are the things that are working for you and not working
• 27:09
  for you? You know what, I had that same
• 27:10
  issue. Have you tried this?
• 27:12
  You know, take it or leave it. But you know, this has worked
• 27:14
  for me. Instead of saying you're doing
• 27:17
  it wrong, you're a horrible person.
• 27:20
  That's such a different conversation and actually gets
• 27:25
  you hopefully closer to what you want, which is compassion for
• 27:29
  that dog, kindness for that dog. Yeah, because we want, we want
• 27:34
  dogs and owners to be equally successful with each other.
• 27:39
  Yeah. That's what we want.
• 27:42
  Yeah, we want them to enjoy. Yeah.
• 27:45
  I want people to enjoy living with their dogs.
• 27:48
  Yes. Can we have that?
• 27:51
  Can we have that be the bar? I like that bar.
• 27:53
  That's what we're gonna shoot for.
• 27:55
  Yeah, I agree. So I think part of the main
• 27:58
  reason I really wanted to to talk about this was just as a
• 28:02
  reminder for all of us, myself included.
• 28:05
  It's always good for us to have a reminder that when we are
• 28:09
  having a conversation with someone.
• 28:11
  Obviously this is centered around dogs, but it's probably
• 28:14
  good advice anywhere in your life that leading from that
• 28:18
  place of compassion and curiosity can flip the script.
• 28:22
  It can change the narrative, it can change the conversation, and
• 28:26
  it actually can and open someone's ears to listen instead
• 28:33
  of completely being shut down because the approach is one of
• 28:39
  caring and kindness. Yes.
• 28:42
  And OK, this is so as you were saying that I was thinking about
• 28:48
  a conversation I was having with my mom earlier this week, not
• 28:51
  about dogs, but something else. And I said, mom, compassion is
• 28:57
  not earned. It's given.
• 29:01
  And, and sometimes I want people to earn my compassion.
• 29:05
  Like I'm just being honest. Like I want people to earn my
• 29:08
  compassion, but that's not how that works.
• 29:11
  I choose to give it even when it's not earned.
• 29:16
  Yeah, because it says more about you than them.
• 29:18
  What? How?
• 29:19
  Like what path are you trying to walk?
• 29:21
  Right. Yeah, I like that.
• 29:25
  That's some tough shit right there, Christy.
• 29:28
  We just took it to another level.
• 29:31
  Oh, my goodness. Well, I hope that if anything,
• 29:37
  it gives you something to think about.
• 29:39
  And if there was some, there's, it doesn't even matter what the
• 29:42
  subjects are. I just brought up some hot
• 29:44
  buttons for me. And yeah, I hope it gives you
• 29:48
  something to think about and that you're gentle with yourself
• 29:51
  and your dog as usual, and then as gentle with others as you can
• 29:55
  be. Yeah.
• 29:57
  Yeah. As much as possible.
• 29:59
  Yes, if you've enjoyed this episode, subscribe, rate and
• 30:04
  share us wherever you get your podcast.
• 30:07
  Also come on over to Instagram and engage with us at Sometimes
• 30:11
  Their Side Eye. Thanks for listening everybody.
• 30:14
  Talk to you next time. Bye bye.