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Education Minister Eva Lawler sheds further light on the mobile phone ban at public schools · 360 with Katie Woolf

0:00
Speaker 1: Yesterday, the Education Minister Evil Laula announced a new mobile
0:03
Speaker 1: phone policy that would be in place as of.
0:06
Speaker 2: Day one Term one next year.
0:08
Speaker 1: The government says the new mobile phone policy strives to
0:12
Speaker 1: strike a balance between harnessing the educational value of mobile
0:15
Speaker 1: devices and the risk of distraction or social harm through
0:19
Speaker 1: their misuse. The policy is going to preclude private use
0:24
Speaker 1: of devices throughout the school day, including recess and lunch breaks,
0:28
Speaker 1: and students must keep their devices turned off. Now joining
0:32
Speaker 1: me on the line to tell us more about the
0:34
Speaker 1: ban is the Minister for Education Eva Laula.
0:38
Speaker 2: Good morning to your minister.
0:39
Speaker 3: Good morning Katie.
0:40
Speaker 2: Now why was this change made?
0:44
Speaker 3: Pretty much, I think nearly every conversation I've had since
0:47
Speaker 3: I've returned as Education Minister at some stage got to
0:51
Speaker 3: the conversation led to the disruptions of mobile phones, the
0:55
Speaker 3: hassle's mobile phones were causing. So, whether that was talking
0:59
Speaker 3: to Council of Government, schools organizations, so the parent organization,
1:03
Speaker 3: whether that was talking to principals, teachers and parents as well.
1:08
Speaker 3: So it became a constant where people were saying, you know,
1:11
Speaker 3: the problems that the mobile phones were causing. So whether
1:14
Speaker 3: that was you know, teachers saying the disruption to learning,
1:18
Speaker 3: whether it was parents saying, you know, the bullying that
1:22
Speaker 3: they and the things that they saw with their own
1:24
Speaker 3: children that upset them. So it really was around you know,
1:28
Speaker 3: seeing their kids in having phones in front of them,
1:32
Speaker 3: you know, day in, day out almost and saying, you know,
1:35
Speaker 3: they contribute of his mobile phones attribute to conflict. You know,
1:38
Speaker 3: our kids are saturated in technology.
1:41
Speaker 1: You know.
1:41
Speaker 3: It was all those sorts of conversations, and so it
1:43
Speaker 3: was like I did some research, We had conversations with
1:46
Speaker 3: the department, I had conversations with some principles, We talked
1:50
Speaker 3: to a few people, lots of people really about it,
1:53
Speaker 3: and it was like, well, other states have done this.
1:56
Speaker 3: WA did it in twenty twenty they banned phones from schools.
2:00
Speaker 3: So I think it was the sensible solution, that was
2:02
Speaker 3: the right policy position to do. And so I had
2:07
Speaker 3: the leaders forum yesday, the Leader's Summit, so all the
2:09
Speaker 3: principles in the territory get together for two days for
2:12
Speaker 3: professional development. So I thought that was the opportune time
2:15
Speaker 3: when I had every principle in the room to be
2:17
Speaker 3: able to say this is what we're going to do, and.
2:19
Speaker 1: From what I can gather it has received widespread support.
2:23
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a parent. Obviously my kids are quite young.
2:25
Speaker 1: They're not taking mobile phones to school, but there is
2:28
Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about the misuse of those mobile phones.
2:31
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't have to look too far on
2:33
Speaker 1: social media to see sort of just how badly those
2:36
Speaker 1: phones are being misused. There's been vision go around at
2:39
Speaker 1: different times of fights being filmed at lunchtime and various
2:43
Speaker 1: other things. Minister, were there any particular incidents that had
2:46
Speaker 1: occurred that really made you go, you know what, we've
2:48
Speaker 1: got to make a change here.
2:50
Speaker 3: No, I mean the conversations when I heard that kids
2:53
Speaker 3: were making tiktoks at lunchtime, you know, interviewing teachers, you know,
2:57
Speaker 3: all of those sorts of things. You're realizing that it's
2:59
Speaker 3: actually gone too far, and your teachers constantly having to
3:04
Speaker 3: talk to kids in classroom about putting away their phone.
3:07
Speaker 3: You know, the stories around bullying, and I think we
3:10
Speaker 3: all know the story around Dolly. That issue of bullying
3:13
Speaker 3: as well, was you know, one of the extreme examples.
3:15
Speaker 3: So it really was though that I call it a
3:18
Speaker 3: saturation in technology. I mean, it was lots of things, Katie.
3:22
Speaker 3: It wasn't actually one thing it really is. I think
3:25
Speaker 3: we need we need our kids to be focused, We
3:28
Speaker 3: need our kids to be learning. You know, a lot
3:30
Speaker 3: of our kids are a long way behind in their learning.
3:34
Speaker 3: To me, anything that we can do to reduce the disruptions.
3:37
Speaker 3: This is a society we live in. We know that.
3:40
Speaker 3: But I think if we can have those hours between
3:42
Speaker 3: you know, eight and two thirty when kids are at
3:44
Speaker 3: school where they're focused on their learning, they're talking to
3:46
Speaker 3: their friends, at least we're not seeing kids getting those
3:51
Speaker 3: spending their time on their mobile phone.
3:53
Speaker 2: How exactly is it going to work?
3:55
Speaker 1: How are you going to you know, how is it
3:57
Speaker 1: going to be implemented and rolled out across the schools?
4:00
Speaker 3: So yeah, so as of today, I mean that was
4:02
Speaker 3: the conversations. That was good to be able to talk
4:05
Speaker 3: to all the principles in one place. The department will
4:08
Speaker 3: work on putting out a policy, you know, all the collateral,
4:11
Speaker 3: all the information that goes with that, so every single
4:14
Speaker 3: school has that information. We do need to work with
4:17
Speaker 3: parents around that. So I'll meet with cogso to make
4:20
Speaker 3: sure the parent organization is really clear around what we do.
4:24
Speaker 3: But you know, schools introduce you have rules in their
4:28
Speaker 3: school all the time, whether it's about banning something else
4:31
Speaker 3: or what they do. So then it will be up
4:33
Speaker 3: to the individual schools and teachers to manage that and
4:36
Speaker 3: what will need.
4:37
Speaker 1: To be what will happen if a kid does turn
4:39
Speaker 1: up with a mobile phone and they're not supposed to.
4:43
Speaker 3: Well, I mean all those things are up to the school.
4:45
Speaker 3: But I mean they as we know with schools around
4:47
Speaker 3: any other behaviors, you see some kids who are very
4:51
Speaker 3: compliant and do the right things, and always there's some
4:53
Speaker 3: that don't. So they will have in place, I'm sure
4:56
Speaker 3: some really clear directions around you know, the first time
4:58
Speaker 3: it's a warning, the second time it might be you know,
5:01
Speaker 3: some time out or you know, detention or whatever else
5:04
Speaker 3: that school uses to manage kids' behavior. And that you know,
5:07
Speaker 3: the next level might be ringing a parent and them
5:10
Speaker 3: coming and taking the phone home. You know, there's the
5:12
Speaker 3: schools manage whatever it is, whether that's smoking, vaping, fighting,
5:17
Speaker 3: any of those behaviors. Schools manage those. So the department
5:20
Speaker 3: will work with their regional directors who manage all our schools,
5:25
Speaker 3: and they'll work with the principle and.
5:26
Speaker 1: Do you reckon, I mean there has been some discussion
5:28
Speaker 1: about whether there should be more education within our schools
5:31
Speaker 1: as well about the way in which kids treat each
5:33
Speaker 1: other when they are online, and that's cyber bullying. Is
5:36
Speaker 1: that something that's happening already or do you think we
5:38
Speaker 1: need to see a bit more of that so it does.
5:41
Speaker 3: Happen like there is truly is there is a lot
5:44
Speaker 3: of work around cyber bullying those you know, across our schools.
5:48
Speaker 3: But I think it's one that we just have to
5:49
Speaker 3: constantly keep reminding young people about, because yeah, some of
5:53
Speaker 3: our nicest kids turning to trolls when they get online
5:57
Speaker 3: is a it's horrifying to see. And I mean, I've
6:00
Speaker 3: my children are much older, but I know mine. I've
6:02
Speaker 3: got three nieces who've only recently finished school and some
6:06
Speaker 3: of the things that I see, and you know, because
6:08
Speaker 3: I'm friends with them on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok
6:11
Speaker 3: or whatever else it is, and yeah, it is, you know,
6:14
Speaker 3: I often have to remind around behaviors and yeah, I
6:18
Speaker 3: think it's become a big issue in our school. Well,
6:20
Speaker 3: I know it's become a big issue in our school.
6:22
Speaker 3: So very happy to be the minister that's banned it.
6:25
Speaker 3: Of course, like anything, will evaluate that in twelve months
6:28
Speaker 3: time or so see how it's all gone. But really
6:32
Speaker 3: it is about making sure our kids actually yet put
6:35
Speaker 3: away their phones and what.
6:37
Speaker 2: They're supposed to do at school. You know, this is
6:40
Speaker 2: the thing.
6:40
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, we don't actually want
6:42
Speaker 1: our kids making tiktoks. We don't want you know, like
6:44
Speaker 1: fair enough if they're doing that outside of school hours.
6:47
Speaker 1: But the last thing you want to see is videos
6:48
Speaker 1: then of kids fighting and doing different things that they
6:51
Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing, and you know it plastered all over
6:54
Speaker 1: social media.
6:55
Speaker 3: Oh and as you say, nasty things said about her,
6:58
Speaker 3: you know, another girl that's their class, and taking photos
7:02
Speaker 3: of that and sharing those photos and just saying, you know,
7:05
Speaker 3: really nasty things that most people wouldn't even say to
7:07
Speaker 3: somebody's face, but happy to say it. So that the
7:10
Speaker 3: line is phones off and away all day. And we'll
7:13
Speaker 3: be reminding between now and the start of the school year,
7:16
Speaker 3: reminding parents around that. I hope parents get behind us
7:20
Speaker 3: and support us around this initiative.
7:22
Speaker 1: Well look, I think it's a good call. I think
7:24
Speaker 1: the government's done the right thing in this space. And
7:27
Speaker 1: I do like the fact as well that it is
7:28
Speaker 1: going to be something that you'll assess. So if you
7:31
Speaker 1: find that it's not working well, some other actions can
7:34
Speaker 1: be taken. But Minister, let's move along because we know that.
7:37
Speaker 1: Yesterday there has been some concerns raised about taxi services
7:41
Speaker 1: around the Northern Territory. They say they want urgent changes
7:44
Speaker 1: to keep vehicles on the road. The Blue Taxi company
7:48
Speaker 1: manager Helen Paschos, said that his issues including fuel prices,
7:52
Speaker 1: competition from ride share companies, drivers shortages, and government regulation.
7:57
Speaker 1: We're hitting passengers and operators. Here's a little bit of
8:00
Speaker 1: what Helena had to tell us yesterday on the show.
8:03
Speaker 4: The government regulates for fairs and for the government to
8:06
Speaker 4: flatly refuse to listen and to up the meat and
8:10
Speaker 4: feed for the driver, that to us is unfair, makes
8:14
Speaker 4: it anti competitive, and it gives consumers a choice. Let
8:18
Speaker 4: them decide whether they want to pay the three dollars
8:21
Speaker 4: extra and have a taxi industry. Is it fair now
8:25
Speaker 4: that all these people are being strangded and not having
8:28
Speaker 4: a service.
8:29
Speaker 1: That's the alternity, Minister, how do you respond to those comments? So?
8:34
Speaker 3: I think the taxi industry, like our buses, but like
8:38
Speaker 3: probably all industries across the territory or across Australia at
8:41
Speaker 3: the moment are experiencing lack of employees. So the taxi
8:45
Speaker 3: industry is finding it really hard to get drivers. Same
8:48
Speaker 3: with buses, same with diesel mechanics, truck drivers or even
8:53
Speaker 3: you know, all of our industries are finding that really hard.
8:55
Speaker 3: So that is one of the issues is around making
8:57
Speaker 3: sure that we have enough taxi drivers. Uber has come in.
9:02
Speaker 3: Uber's been a disruption that's come in that's worldwide. That's
9:05
Speaker 3: not going to change. People are making a choice around
9:09
Speaker 3: using taxis or Uber. It's just like people make a
9:12
Speaker 3: choice around a hotel or airbnb. So there are those
9:15
Speaker 3: disruptions to an industry that has been an industry or
9:19
Speaker 3: a taxi industry has been around probably hundreds of year,
9:21
Speaker 3: one hundred years or so. So there is a disruption
9:24
Speaker 3: that they've found hard. But the government did do a
9:27
Speaker 3: Commercial Passenger Vehicle Review and now there is a steering
9:31
Speaker 3: committee that there's a reference group that meet regularly where
9:36
Speaker 3: we listen to the issues of the taxi industry and
9:40
Speaker 3: we continue to try and address those issues well.
9:43
Speaker 1: And look Uber and the driver's shortage or obviously things
9:46
Speaker 1: that the government can't control, but things like that fair increase. Well,
9:50
Speaker 1: that's something that the government can actually control and can
9:54
Speaker 1: help with. It's the same as the regulation. Are you
9:57
Speaker 1: meeting with the taxi companies about this? My understanding is
10:00
Speaker 1: that they've got a full consensus here, like they're in
10:02
Speaker 1: agreement on what they think needs to happen, but they're
10:05
Speaker 1: struggling to have you guys sit down at the table
10:07
Speaker 1: with them and make this happen.
10:10
Speaker 3: So the fair increase was one that they were demanding.
10:14
Speaker 3: The tax industry was demanding at a paying an increase
10:18
Speaker 3: of I think it was around thirty percent, So you know,
10:22
Speaker 3: we didn't believe that was feasible, so we came up
10:24
Speaker 3: with what we thought was a reasonable position for the industry.
10:29
Speaker 3: But we truly do meet with them. There is, as
10:32
Speaker 3: I said, this steering group that meets regularly. All those
10:36
Speaker 3: meetings are minuted, there's actions there, there's opportunities for people
10:40
Speaker 3: to have a say around the industry. We know it
10:43
Speaker 3: is a difficult industry and we continue to work with them.
10:46
Speaker 3: As I said, there are so many the recommendations are
10:50
Speaker 3: being implemented, but there are lots of discussions around those,
10:54
Speaker 3: and will continue to work with the industry one of
10:57
Speaker 3: the ones that we that came up in that was
11:00
Speaker 3: not enough taxis for people with disabilities. So we've put
11:04
Speaker 3: in place a scheme where, you know, to encourage the
11:07
Speaker 3: uptake of those multi purpose taxis that there's a grand
11:12
Speaker 3: of fifteen thousand dollars for people to be able to
11:15
Speaker 3: you know, to be able to if you're an eligible operator,
11:18
Speaker 3: to be able to accommodate a wheelchair. So we've done
11:21
Speaker 3: lots of work in this area. Will continue to have
11:23
Speaker 3: those meetings with the taxi industry, but it is an
11:26
Speaker 3: industry that's hurting at the moment.
11:28
Speaker 1: I understand that a minister, they are hurting, and you know,
11:31
Speaker 1: as you pointed out, obviously Uber's been a huge disruption
11:34
Speaker 1: to them. You know, we know that there is a
11:37
Speaker 1: workforce shortage. But if they are saying that they need
11:39
Speaker 1: a fair increase, and they're saying to you right now,
11:42
Speaker 1: we need that fair increase so that we can stay
11:45
Speaker 1: operating and that we can actually try to entice drivers
11:48
Speaker 1: and you know, keep up our standards because they are
11:52
Speaker 1: regulated unlike the likes of Uber. You know, why not
11:56
Speaker 1: sort of come to some kind of compromise so that
11:58
Speaker 1: we're able to keep them going because I guess the
12:00
Speaker 1: risk here is that the taxi industry ends up decimated.
12:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there has been. Yeah, so there has been
12:07
Speaker 3: a tariff increase, So there has been. The issue was
12:11
Speaker 3: it wasn't as much as the taxi industry wanted. So
12:13
Speaker 3: the taxi industed industry wanted the thirty percent increase. The
12:17
Speaker 3: Northern Territory government gave an increase and I think it
12:20
Speaker 3: was about seven and a half percent increase. So that's
12:23
Speaker 3: the issue is around what the increase was. So so
12:26
Speaker 3: preted to sit.
12:27
Speaker 1: Back down at the table with some if that increase,
12:29
Speaker 1: if they're saying it's not enough, but you guys feel
12:31
Speaker 1: as though that's seven percent is enough. Are you prepared
12:33
Speaker 1: to sit back down at the table with them and renegotiate.
12:37
Speaker 3: Well, you know, what we have to take into account though,
12:40
Speaker 3: is also the users, you know, So it's not from
12:44
Speaker 3: a government point of view. It's not just looking at
12:47
Speaker 3: the industry. We also have to actually think of the
12:50
Speaker 3: people who are using taxis and make sure that it's
12:53
Speaker 3: fair for them. So it is a difficult position to
12:56
Speaker 3: be in as a government around fares, but you know,
13:00
Speaker 3: I think that's what we need to be able to
13:01
Speaker 3: do is really look at both sides of this.
13:05
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, wouldn't it be a consumer's choice?
13:07
Speaker 3: We're happy.
13:08
Speaker 1: I mean if it does get too expensive, shouldn't it
13:10
Speaker 1: be then a consumer's choice? And I guess that was
13:12
Speaker 1: what Helen was saying on the show yes andday. Look,
13:14
Speaker 1: I'm not a regular taxi user, but we were called
13:17
Speaker 1: yesterday by people who are regular taxi users, and some
13:20
Speaker 1: were saying, you know, they actually don't mind paying a
13:22
Speaker 1: little bit more if it means that they're actually able
13:24
Speaker 1: to get a taxi.
13:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's going to be seven point nine percent
13:28
Speaker 3: is the increase. So that was the I said, it's
13:31
Speaker 3: a bit like I guess an EBA discussion. Really they
13:34
Speaker 3: wanted thirty percent, we said, we said it at seven
13:37
Speaker 3: point nine percent, which you know, was looking at CPI,
13:40
Speaker 3: looking at all of those issues, we thought that was
13:43
Speaker 3: a fair amount. But as I said, some of these
13:46
Speaker 3: issues that the taxi industry are experiencing are things that
13:50
Speaker 3: are global, like as I said, worker shortage. But you know,
13:54
Speaker 3: some of those actions are also being resolved by the
13:56
Speaker 3: federal government. You know, nine and I think it's nine
13:58
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand migrants are coming into Australia, you know,
14:02
Speaker 3: with the affordability, bringing more houses online so that we
14:05
Speaker 3: can have more migrants here who are often, let's face it,
14:09
Speaker 3: the people who are the ones that are driving our taxi.
14:11
Speaker 3: So yes, they wanted thirty percent. The government, you know,
14:15
Speaker 3: as I said, looked very carefully at that. It's seven
14:17
Speaker 3: point nine percent. But some of these issues around fuel prices,
14:22
Speaker 3: some of these issues around drivers are ones that are
14:26
Speaker 3: bigger than just the Northern Territory.
14:28
Speaker 1: And so at this point in time, there isn't going
14:30
Speaker 1: to be any sort of change in this space.
14:32
Speaker 2: It is going to be business as usual.
14:35
Speaker 3: So we, as I said, there is a price increase
14:39
Speaker 3: to seven point nine percent, which is a you know,
14:42
Speaker 3: a fair increase, well fair fair increase, and we thought
14:47
Speaker 3: that was a reasonable one. It's not. It's not going
14:50
Speaker 3: to thirty percent. That's that's you know, that's been taken
14:53
Speaker 3: off the table. It's seven point nine percent. But we
14:56
Speaker 3: do continue to meet with the taxi industry. There are
15:00
Speaker 3: formal meetings. There are, as I said, a steering committee
15:03
Speaker 3: where people meet and go through the recommendations, implement the
15:06
Speaker 3: recommendations and talk about what the issues are for that industry.
15:10
Speaker 1: Right Minister, I am going to move along because there
15:12
Speaker 1: is quite a bit happening around the place, and we
15:14
Speaker 1: know that the federal budget obviously a massive infrastructure has
15:17
Speaker 1: been flagged for the Northern Territory. You are the Minister
15:20
Speaker 1: for infrastructure here in the territory. Two point five billion dollars,
15:24
Speaker 1: When do you anticipate that work is going to get
15:26
Speaker 1: underway on some of these projects?
15:29
Speaker 3: So most of these projects of work is already underway.
15:31
Speaker 3: So the one point five billion for Middle Arm, there's
15:34
Speaker 3: already the Northern Territory government put I think was about
15:37
Speaker 3: nineteen million into the budget this year of our own
15:40
Speaker 3: money to start the work there, and I mean not
15:42
Speaker 3: even to start. We'd already we're doing those assessments. So
15:46
Speaker 3: you know, there's been about two hundred assessments done, so
15:49
Speaker 3: that the planning, the design, all of those sorts of
15:52
Speaker 3: work is already underway. The same with the Regional Logistics Hubs.
15:56
Speaker 3: Those projects we'd put I think thirty million into Catherine,
16:00
Speaker 3: so that works underway. The same with the Tanami, the
16:02
Speaker 3: Central Artum roads. So pretty much all of the projects
16:05
Speaker 3: that have got dollars were already underway. They had some
16:09
Speaker 3: dollars from the federal government or from us. They're important projects.
16:13
Speaker 3: So the work is already rolling.
16:15
Speaker 2: Through now we know that.
16:16
Speaker 1: I mean you've just touched on this, even with the
16:18
Speaker 1: taxi industry, that workforce shortage. Have you got any concerns
16:21
Speaker 1: around delivering some of these projects and that work force shortage.
16:26
Speaker 3: So with the most of the roads, we have about
16:29
Speaker 3: five really big local companies, family companies who do our
16:34
Speaker 3: civil work in the territory. We have a good spread
16:36
Speaker 3: across the territory. Some are based in Central Australia, some
16:40
Speaker 3: are based up here in Darwin. So no, not around
16:43
Speaker 3: the roads. As I said, we have good people who
16:46
Speaker 3: are delivering great projects for us around the roads. Some
16:49
Speaker 3: of the other construction work, yes, you know we're always
16:52
Speaker 3: they're always looking for new employees and that's work that's constant.
16:56
Speaker 3: But you know that's the reality across Australia around making
17:00
Speaker 3: sure that we have people. Some of the other issues
17:02
Speaker 3: have been around supply chains and the cost that we're
17:05
Speaker 3: seeing around you know, increases in cement, increases in steel prices.
17:09
Speaker 3: But no, we feel that, you know, we've got the
17:12
Speaker 3: workforce that we can keep moving on these projects.
17:14
Speaker 1: Minister, give us a bit of an update on Tiger Brennan.
17:16
Speaker 1: I know that there is quite a bit happening at
17:18
Speaker 1: the moment.
17:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, so a fabulous Northern Territory company, Sitzler long Term
17:23
Speaker 3: Territory Company, are really plowing ahead with that. I drive
17:27
Speaker 3: past every day and I jokingly say I sort of
17:29
Speaker 3: project management manage it from the window of my car.
17:31
Speaker 3: But it is going to be amazing. So if you
17:34
Speaker 3: come down Verrama Road you'll be going over the top.
17:38
Speaker 3: If you're driving between Darwin and Palmeersan, you'll just flow
17:41
Speaker 3: through straight through there, so it'll take away those traffic lights.
17:45
Speaker 3: But we're going to see an increase in traffic coming
17:48
Speaker 3: out of East Ham once the ship lifts there. So
17:51
Speaker 3: it is about how terrible that intersection has been. It's
17:55
Speaker 3: our busiest intersection. It has been quite unsafe, but it
17:59
Speaker 3: was also about the priest that we're going to see
18:01
Speaker 3: coming out of Eastaham. So yeah, going really well and
18:05
Speaker 3: hope it hopes to be opened by about July twenty
18:08
Speaker 3: twenty four.
18:09
Speaker 1: Well Eva Laula, the Minister for Education as well as
18:12
Speaker 1: Infrastructure Planning and Logistics and well Transport and the Treasurer.
18:17
Speaker 1: Lots of portfolios, lots of hats. We always appreciate your time.
18:20
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you very much.