Latest / How Hard Can It Be? with Diana Maria Riva / Anjali Bhimani on Going After Your Dreams, Dealing with Grief, and Why Midlife isn’t All Downhill

Transcript

Anjali Bhimani on Going After Your Dreams, Dealing with Grief, and Why Midlife isn’t All Downhill · How Hard Can It Be? with Diana Maria Riva

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: In life, we have snack size, travel size, and fun size.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: And my next guest brings her entire fun-sized self to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: midlife unapologetically. In today's vibrant conversation, we're gonna talk about
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: everything from why life doesn't always need to feel like
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: a fight, and how sometimes a self-help book can feel
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: like a fork in the eye, and how the only
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: way to go from midlife is up. So truly, how
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: hard can it be? How hard can it be? Welcome
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: to another episode of How Hard Can It Be? I'm
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  Speaker 1: your host, Deanna Maria Rebem. We are speaking to Gen
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: X women navigating midlife's most fantastic bullshit. And I am
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  Speaker 1: very excited. And there's a lot of you who are
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: going to be very excited for this guest that we
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: have today. I met her through the Instagrams-ish, but then
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: we did meet at a gifting suite. And then she
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  Speaker 1: guest starred on Dead to Me. But you also know
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: her from Modern Family, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, Auntie Ruby and Miss Marvel.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: How many of you are losing it now? But she's
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: also the voice of many incredible characters and gaming, such
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  Speaker 1: as Overwatch and Apex Legends. Please help me welcome Anjali Bhimani!
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, I love how you said it too.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: It's like, it's very Latin now.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, did I put the accent in the wrong place?
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: No, it was perfect.
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  Speaker 1: I love it.
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  Speaker 2: It's a name that kind of suits a lot of
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  Speaker 2: different languages.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, it does.
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  Speaker 2: Because it's Anjali Bhimani. Well, it's Anjali Bhimani in India.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I go by Anjali. But then I feel like Italians
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  Speaker 2: are like, Anjali Bhimani. And then Latinas are Anjali Bhimani.
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  Speaker 2: And it's like, I just love it. And then, of course,
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  Speaker 2: the French is Anjali Bhimani. I mean, that sounds romantic, too.
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  Speaker 2: Now I want to sleep with you.
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  Speaker 1: It's a panty dropper all of a sudden. Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Do you have a middle name?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, my middle name is Bharat, which was my father's name,
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  Speaker 2: because that is the tradition in India is you take
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  Speaker 2: your husband's name when you marry your husband as your
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  Speaker 2: middle name. But before that, your father's name is your
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  Speaker 2: middle name. So mine, I did not take my husband's name.
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  Speaker 2: My husband's Rick Barry O'Dell. I did not take his
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  Speaker 2: name as my middle name. I kept Bharat because, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to be connected.
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  Speaker 1: To my dad. Anjali Bharat.
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  Speaker 2: Rick.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 2: You're like, there's a lot of names there. Anjali Rick
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  Speaker 2: Mario Dil. No, we're just not.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Deanna Hank Riva. Yeah, see what I'm saying?
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  Speaker 2: It doesn't work. It doesn't quite work.
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  Speaker 1: It works better with the Indian culture.
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  Speaker 2: Although it is strange. It was strange to me as
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  Speaker 2: a kid that you would then, as a woman, automatically
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  Speaker 2: have a man's name as your middle name rather than
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  Speaker 2: getting a chance to honor the women in your family
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: but you know traditionally back in ye olde timey it
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  Speaker 2: was not a particularly matriarchal society even though everybody knew
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: that the women were running the show.
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  Speaker 1: We have something in common when i did my homework
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  Speaker 1: we're both from ohio we're in ohio cincinnati.
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  Speaker 2: Girl okay well i was born in cleveland saw that
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  Speaker 2: us the original cleveland indians before that got changed um
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  Speaker 2: it's a dumb joke i don't know why i made
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  Speaker 2: it um But, yeah, I lived there... We lived there
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  Speaker 2: just until I... Right before I turned four.
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  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
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  Speaker 2: And then we moved out here.
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  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
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  Speaker 2: We moved out to Orange County because my mom was like, listen,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not waking up at 3 o'clock in the morning
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  Speaker 2: to deliver babies anymore because she was an OB-GYN.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And... So we moved out to California, and I grew
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  Speaker 2: up in Orange County.
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  Speaker 1: You know what I read about your parents, which made
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  Speaker 1: me stop and reread that again? Your parents met in
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  Speaker 1: med school while doing a play. That is correct. You
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  Speaker 1: can do a play while you're in med school? You
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  Speaker 1: have time to do a play? Hey, we are Indians.
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  Speaker 2: We are overachievers, okay?
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  Speaker 1: We do anything.
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  Speaker 2: We'll get it all done all at once and have
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  Speaker 2: time left in the day.
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  Speaker 1: My mistake.
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  Speaker 2: You need something done, give it to an auntie. No,
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  Speaker 2: they did. So my dad was a member of this
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  Speaker 2: like intercollegiate drama troupe with his best friend.
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  Speaker 1: An intercollegiate drama troupe. I didn't even know there could
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  Speaker 1: be such a thing.
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  Speaker 2: Everybody has hobbies.
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  Speaker 1: Am I dissing on that? No, no, no.
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  Speaker 2: I was like in their copious free time. They're doing plays.
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  Speaker 2: What the hell? Shouldn't they be so? Studying medicine.
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  Speaker 1: It's amazing. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So they were doing the next play they were doing.
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  Speaker 2: And my dad kept like vetoing all of the women
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  Speaker 2: that his best friend was saying, what about this girl?
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  Speaker 2: What about this girl? To play a role opposite him.
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  Speaker 1: That's the wrong Juliet.
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  Speaker 2: And he got really, Kanthibai got really, really frustrated. And
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  Speaker 2: my dad said, okay, you know what? Don't worry about it.
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  Speaker 2: The next woman that walks down those stairs, if she
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  Speaker 2: speaks Gujarati, I will choose her and we will move
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  Speaker 2: on with this. And it was my mom. Oh.
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  Speaker 1: Yep.
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  Speaker 2: And then she spent the next like three years or more,
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  Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly how many, rebuffing him until she
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  Speaker 2: finally caved and said yes. And I was like, that's how.
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  Speaker 1: You do it, mom. That's right. You didn't just give
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  Speaker 1: me an opportunity. I gave you time.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Exactly.
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  Speaker 1: I love that. And it's, it's just, it's, it sets
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  Speaker 1: up a good, I also saw how much your father
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  Speaker 1: meant to you and, um, and that he, he passed
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  Speaker 1: away and, but he was clearly your hero.
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  Speaker 2: He was, it wasn't even that he was my hero
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  Speaker 2: so much as like, he was my knight. He was,
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  Speaker 2: he was my, my, my noble defender. Um, uh, And
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  Speaker 2: I learned a lot, obviously, from him. But me and
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  Speaker 2: my father and my mother, even though they were kind
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  Speaker 2: of like opposites attracting, I really feel like there's this
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  Speaker 2: beautiful balance of things that they gave me. They were both, yes,
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  Speaker 2: they came from traditional families, but they were both kind
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  Speaker 2: of bucking tradition with a lot of things that they
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  Speaker 2: were doing. My mom becoming a doctor instead of like
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  Speaker 2: being a nice Indian girl and getting married and moving
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  Speaker 2: on with her life at the time. And my dad,
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  Speaker 2: by marrying my mom... And so for him, I think
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  Speaker 2: the coolest thing about my dad was how big he
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  Speaker 2: felt things because he had no problem showing his feelings
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  Speaker 2: for better or for worse. He had no problem showing
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  Speaker 2: his feelings, but it made it safe for me. to
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  Speaker 2: feel like, oh, that's normal. You're allowed to express those.
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  Speaker 2: And he loved theater. He called it the drama. He
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  Speaker 2: loved drama. And even after, even when they were still
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  Speaker 2: doctors in OC, he directed a play with a bunch
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  Speaker 2: of their friends. Oh my God, he was an overachiever.
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  Speaker 2: They put it up at Yorba Linda Civic Light Opera.
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  Speaker 2: My mom is really the perfectionist, though. My dad was
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  Speaker 2: really laissez-faire, like kind of go with the flow kind
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  Speaker 2: of guy. My mom is like, I am going to
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  Speaker 2: get this done to this degree and no one's going
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  Speaker 2: to know about it because I'm not talking about it.
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  Speaker 2: I'm actually busy doing it while you're all talking about it.
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  Speaker 2: And she's still that way.
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  Speaker 1: So when you come from that kind of stock, do
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  Speaker 1: you arrive at a chapter like Midlife, since this is
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  Speaker 1: the tone and the theme of the show, knowing everything?
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  Speaker 1: Did your mom tell you? As informed as your mother was.
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  Speaker 2: I have arrived and I know everything.
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  Speaker 1: Listen. This is it. No, look. With as much as
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  Speaker 1: your mother researched, Did she research midlife and give you
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  Speaker 1: all that?
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  Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. A lot of my mom's advice was
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  Speaker 2: what not to do based on her own experience. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: that's the start. My mom did not want me to
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  Speaker 2: become a doctor, which is unusual for an Indian parent.
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  Speaker 2: But she said, I don't want you to have to
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  Speaker 2: work this hard. It's grueling. The stress is not good
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  Speaker 2: for you. At the time, you know, she said, at
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  Speaker 2: the time that she was coming up, she was like,
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  Speaker 2: it's a man's world and they make it very clear.
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  Speaker 2: And I just don't want you to have to give
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  Speaker 2: up the things that I had to give up in
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  Speaker 2: order to make this work. Now, I think obviously there
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  Speaker 2: are incredible women doctors out there who are not having
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  Speaker 2: the experience that my mother had. But just the freedom
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  Speaker 2: to come to my parents and be like, okay, you guys,
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  Speaker 2: I am not going to be a doctor. Wait, wait,
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  Speaker 2: wait for it.
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  Speaker 1: Wait.
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  Speaker 2: Okay. I'm going to be an actor.
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  Speaker 1: Wait, wait.
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  Speaker 2: Here's what happens. I save us all medical school. We
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  Speaker 2: don't have to pay for that. And I get to
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  Speaker 2: play doctors on TV. Oh. So you can still tell
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  Speaker 2: all the aunties and uncles you have a daughter who's
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  Speaker 2: a doctor, but we save all that money. And no
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  Speaker 2: one dies on my watch. Yes. Unless it's fake.
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  Speaker 1: Unless it's an episode of, yeah. Unless it's fake.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, so yeah. So most of, a
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  Speaker 2: lot of her advice was what not to do. And she's...
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  Speaker 2: She's happy. She's free. She's brilliant. She's all of these things.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm sure you have had this experience with your family, too.
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  Speaker 2: So much of the immigrant experience is working so hard
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  Speaker 2: to fight forces that are beyond their control and not
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  Speaker 2: realizing that that fight isn't normal.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Like, not everybody has to fight that fight. Yeah. And
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  Speaker 2: I think as she– so that is– I guess that's
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: one of the huge pieces of wisdom is you don't
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: have to live life with your fists up. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's beautiful that she put that– planted
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  Speaker 1: that seed in your head because little did she know
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  Speaker 1: or did she know that this industry is a fight.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: When you go into a profession like this, it is
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: a fight.
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  Speaker 2: But, again, my parents gave me this beautiful gift. When
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I said I wanted to be an actor, they were like, cool,
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  Speaker 2: three rules. One– treat it like a real job.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Just like you're going to be a doctor. Treat it
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  Speaker 2: like that. Work hard to be really good at it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And three, pay your own bills. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: That's it.
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  Speaker 2: That's it. That's pretty much for me. I very much
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: was like, cool. I just want to make a living
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  Speaker 2: doing what I love. Yeah. And it was never about
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: fame or notoriety or any of those things. And and
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  Speaker 2: the freedom of the Even though my parents had high
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  Speaker 2: expectations of me as a human, my lowered expectations of like, cool,
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  Speaker 2: that's all I have to achieve to be successful enabled
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  Speaker 2: me to go past that. Because I think if I
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: had put the pressure on myself early on to get
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: where I am now, I would have faltered.
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  Speaker 1: That's a great way of looking at it and recognizing that,
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  Speaker 1: because I think that we not only just, you know,
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  Speaker 1: children of immigrants, but also our generation, which we are,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: as I've quoted in here many times before after reading it,
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  Speaker 1: we are the regions of resourcefulness. And when you come
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: from the kind of stock that says pay your own bill.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: be independent, be self-reliant and resilient, then all of those
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: things mixed together, mixed in with our Gen X group
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: of women, we're on that treadmill and we run. Sometimes
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: it's a treadmill. Sometimes it's just the wheel. Why am
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I blanking on that? A hamster wheel. Sometimes it's a
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: treadmill because you can slow it down, you can get off, whatever.
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  Speaker 1: Or sometimes it's just a hamster wheel and it just
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: keeps going.
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  Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong. I live in a place of,
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  Speaker 2: you're not doing enough. There are all of these voices
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  Speaker 2: in my head that I tried to keep it May,
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  Speaker 2: but it's the curse of the A student or the
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: A plus student that every time you get an A,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: you're just like, okay, phew, but now I got to
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: get to the next one. You don't celebrate it because
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: you're like the fear of falling beneath the expectation that
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: you have. So my husband's always being like, babe, take
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: the W. Why are you not celebrating this good thing?
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  Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got that. That's done.
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  Speaker 2: I got to get to the next one. So I
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: definitely have that hamster wheel in me. there's usually at
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: least one point in the year where I just have
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: a full-on meltdown where I'm like, I've been doing too much.
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  Speaker 2: I have to fix this. I have to adjust, whatever
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  Speaker 2: it is. And that does come from having high expectations
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  Speaker 2: of myself.
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  Speaker 1: Coming back to Anjali, when did Anjali know or have
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  Speaker 1: a moment that was, oh, shit, is this midlife? Was
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: it something that your mom told you not to do
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  Speaker 1: and you started finding yourself doing it?
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  Speaker 2: No.
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  Speaker 1: Or something that was, what was that?
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  Speaker 2: Here's the thing, like, and I hope this doesn't mean
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: that I have fooled you into getting me on this show.
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  Speaker 2: But even now, like, almost, I'm turning 52 in a
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: couple months. Even now, I'm like, cool, I'm halfway. But
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  Speaker 2: it doesn't feel like midlife because I don't really count
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  Speaker 2: a lot of the beginning of our lives where we're
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: not conscious of actually doing the thing. I feel like
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  Speaker 2: things just started to make sense. And frankly, I learned
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  Speaker 2: how to live without being depressed because I struggled with
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  Speaker 2: that for a very long time. I feel like that
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  Speaker 2: maybe has happened in the last couple of decades.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Well, there you go. By the way, when I decided
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: to have this show, and I say a lot, somewhat
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: tongue in cheek or jokingly of how hard can it be?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: This midlife's bullshit because it's all of it. It's bullshit.
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  Speaker 1: It's fantastic. And it's, is it really that hard at
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: the end of the day? If, you know, all those
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: things to talk about it and air it out, because
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: the more we hear things like what you have to
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: share from your experience of it, you're not the first
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: guest to sit here with me and say, I literally
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: feel like I am tapping into my greatest hits, my
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: greatest moments now. So you're not alone in that. And
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: it's great to hear it because if you haven't tapped
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: into that, It's there. It's waiting for you.
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  Speaker 2: And I feel like society, certainly when we were growing up,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: a little bit less now because there are more people
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: speaking about how great it is like you are. We
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: were taught, oh, after a certain age, it's all downhill
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: from here. Good luck, especially as actresses. And meanwhile, I
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: hit 50 and I'm looking at all my friends and
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, they're hotter than they've ever been.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: And they're succeeding in ways that blow my mind. And
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: they're having a great time doing it. And so, yeah,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm halfway but not mid-life. Like, it
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: feels like I have a lot more life to go
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: than I probably clocked in the past. Also because, you know,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: you spend so much of your young life being like, oh,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to be older. Oh, I can't wait
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: until this. Oh, I can't wait until this. And then
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: it feels like after a while you're like, whoops, I
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: meant to go backwards. And now I just– now I
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: just like– finding out what the next year is.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Because I've had enough experience now getting to those milestones
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: or just the next year being better or the next
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: year being better, even when there are like awful years.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Like last year was a very, very, very challenging year,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: both personally and in the world. And yet, coming through
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: it and what I learned from it, I feel like, yeah,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: it's just getting better.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: What did you learn from it?
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: How to handle grief in a really, really, in a
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: more painful way than actually my father's passing. My father's
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: passing made sense to me because he had a heart
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: condition that he had been dealing with for many years,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and he left this planet so gracefully. We would take
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: the whole podcast to tell you the story of it.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: But there was enough time to say goodbye, and it
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: happened in a very beautiful way. And my husband and
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: I got married at the foot of his bed before
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: we let him go. But last year, my dog passed away.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: And for people who don't, I mean, I know it sounds,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I always feel a little silly saying this, especially for
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: people who don't have this connection with animals. And I
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: don't want to say my dog is like a human
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: child because they're very different things. But the connection that
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I had to Charlie was largely about coming into my
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: own in a way at the same time as I
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: got him. And he was the harbinger of all good
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: things that came to me after him. And so last
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: year when he passed, I was unmoored. And I didn't know–
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: I felt like I didn't know how to be a
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: happy person without this creature in my life because he
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: had been there the whole time from when I had
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: figured out how to not be depressed on a daily basis.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: And he was there for it. And so– and he
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: taught me how to love myself because I was like, oh,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: I just have to do what I– literally do what
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I do for the dog, which– Sounds crazy, but it
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: was so simple because I didn't understand what loving myself meant.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I was like, I don't even like myself. How do
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: I love myself? And everybody's telling me I can't love
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: someone else until I love myself. Well, that's bullshit. You
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: can absolutely learn how to love someone else by loving
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: someone else and how to love yourself by loving someone else.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I learned so much from him. He's all
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: over my book. He inspired the big charity event that
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I do every year. So yeah, but that grief hit
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: me in a really... I knew it was going to
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: be bad, but I didn't know it was going to
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: be that bad. I didn't know it was going to
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: be that hard. Yeah. And because my husband was going
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: through it at the same time, we couldn't necessarily... We
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: could be there for each other, but not necessarily be
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: there for each other in the way that, like... Both
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: of us could fall apart at the same time.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Because we needed— Someone needs to stay standing. But, yeah.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: And I was working out of town, and it was
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: like— and the work didn't stop until December. And finally in December,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I was like, I need to spend two weeks under
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: a weighted blanket and cry, and then I will come
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: back to the world. But learning how to move through it,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: even though I'm sure it is going to be different
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: in all of its forms that I experience it in life—
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Learning how to move through it and knowing that there
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: would be a time when, yes, thinking about him might
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: make me sad or make me cry and him not
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: being here. There is more thinking about the love and
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: feeling the love than there is feeling the lack.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And today is actually his home day. Today was the
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: day we brought him or I brought him home because
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I had him before I had my husband. I had
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: a D.O.G. and then I got a D.A.W.G.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: So so today is his home day. So we celebrate that, too. Yeah.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: You know, I lost. I hear you. And I think
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: it's something that I learned recently because I was on
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: my way to coming down here to film a couple
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: episodes of the podcast. And my dog did not sleep
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: well the night before, my big dog. And he was
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: my first real pet. I had never had a dog
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: growing up. And so I got this dog for my
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: kids when they were eight. No, probably like seven and nine.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: My kids were like seven and nine and they're 21
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: and 24 now. And my big dog suddenly just looked
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: very ill and was not acting right. So I dropped everything.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I took him to an emergency room. facility, and he
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: passed away two hours later. And I wasn't ready for it.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: He was 16. He lived a full, full life for
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: a big dog.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: No, but you were never ready for it.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I did not understand it until I walked through it.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And it's a grief. It's a grief of its own.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: And I was talking to a guest who really pointed
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: out about how just as a working mom and as
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: a single parent and all the things that she was
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: on the hamster wheel when she had lost in her life, she,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: she didn't, she felt she didn't have time to grieve.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: And if you don't give yourself that time to grieve,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: it will surface. And, and, uh, It sounds like you
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: had to walk yourself through that too.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I did. Thankfully, I didn't have to walk myself through
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: it alone. I was working on a show and made
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: a very dear friend during that show. And he helped
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: because I was away from home and I couldn't be
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: with my husband during that time. And there were a
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: lot of people who would let me, and a lot
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: of places, not just people, that I could let it
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: out in spurts, like letting the pressure off of a
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: pressure cooker. Yeah. Just letting it out in spurts so
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: that when I finally did... did get a window to
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: actually feel it, it wasn't, it didn't consume me. Yeah.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: It was something that I could feel and move through
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: rather than fighting the feeling. And that's the other thing that,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, and this is not something that I learned
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: last year. This is something that I've learned over time
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: is how much you have to feel something. rather than
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: fighting it in order to pass through it. I agree.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: The only way is through.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: No matter what the topic is.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: No matter what it is. You know, like I'm just
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: getting arguments with my husband because I'd be doing auditions
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: at home and either he would be helping me or
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: I'd be talking about it and I'd be like just
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: bitching up a storm about how bad I was and...
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: All this stuff. And I'm so frustrated that I'm not
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: getting this. And he's like, babe, babe, you got to
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: be nicer. You got to be gentle. And I'm like,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: don't tell me about my process. I have to feel it.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I have to feel it.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I have to move through it. Don't tell me what
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: to feel. Don't tell me what to do. You're not
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: the boss of me. So now he fully understands because
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: he's seen it happen where I'm like, and he's experienced
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: it too, where if you have a big feeling, whether
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: it's one you want to have or not, there has
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: to be a place to even if you have to
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: put it on the shelf to be professional or to
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: be in public or whatever, or to take care of
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: your kids or other people around you, once you take
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: that off the shelf, you've got to give yourself the
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: freedom to move, to feel it and move through it
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: rather than be scared of it or rail against it. Yeah.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: That is the one part of grief I never experienced,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: which is denial.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: I never experienced that.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Of all the stages.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Of all the stages. I think that also comes from
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: my mom.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: She's very spiritual and she's a Hindu and she has
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: just an understanding of the life and death cycle that
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: is so peaceful. And watching her move through grief as
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: she has lost friends and lost my father and everything,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: there's an acceptance of this is what is. This makes sense.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Feel it, but this is also what is.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: And it's just happening now. This big feeling is just
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: happening now.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: You went on... You mentioned just recently, just before, that
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: you wrote a book, and it was called I'm Fun Size.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I am Fun Size, and so are you.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: And so are you. And it was based off of
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: a YouTube series that you had started. Tell us a
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: little bit more about the impetus for this wonderful fun size. Sure, sure, sure. So.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: For a while, I had had an urge to do
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: something like a blog or a vlog or whatever we
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: were calling it those days. But I couldn't figure out
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: what the angle was going to be. Like, how am
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I going to do it? What's it going to be for?
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And I had been like, oh, maybe it's going to
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: be a thing for women with petite clothing. But something
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: felt off. And around the time that I booked my
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: first big video game, Overwatch... I also met this extraordinary...
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, gamers are incredible. The gaming community is so... Wonderful.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: I cannot tell you.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: They are a loyal group.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: They are loyal. They take care of each other. I
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: know we hear, and especially as parents, people hear about
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: the toxicity in gaming and they hear about all of
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: these other things. But for every one toxic player, there
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: are a hundred quieter ones who are taking care of
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: each other. And so I was getting all of this
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: support and love from that community. And my dad had
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: just passed. People were just showing up with fan art
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: and all sorts of things. And then one day I
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: was like, let's have a Fan Art Friday on Twitter,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: which I refused to call X. And I was like,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: let's have a Fan Art Friday. And I thought maybe
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: two or three pieces of art would pop up. And
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: it was boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Artists of all degrees of expertise, whether it was stick
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: figures or it was beautiful stuff. And I immediately said,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: you have to get off your ass and do something
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: for these people. This you have to make something because
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: you cannot use– it has to be perfect as an
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: excuse anymore, make it. And that around the same time,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I remember, because, you know, I'm a tiny human, so
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: I've been called fun size before. And I was like,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: but wait, wait, fun size, aren't we all fun size?
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Because aren't we all built for fun?
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is what has, I've had, this has
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: been a sticking point with me in looking at your title,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: because I was like, I would never call myself fun size. No,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: and most.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: People who are in a not tiny body wouldn't think
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: of it that way.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I'm voluptuous and so are you.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I am curvy and so are you. But the thing is,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I think the world is... We all deserve to have
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: these fun and big and amazing lives, but the world
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: has a way, or even the voices in our head
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: have a way of potentially making us feel small on
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: the inside. We're scared and at the worst of all, alone. Yep.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And so what I wanted to do with that book
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: and with the series and with the book is just
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: let people know you're not alone.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: And... At the same time, the gaming community had been,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of people would send me DMs asking me
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: questions I had no right to answer about life. I'm like,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I can barely live my own life. I'm not giving
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: you advice about yours. That's like, I shouldn't be. But
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: what I can share and what no one else has
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: is my stories and my experiences. And if my stories
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: can somehow, you know, if someone asks a question, which
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: is how I ended up doing the series, was having
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: people writing questions to my email address. And if my
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: story helps you see the world just one notch of
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: the kaleidoscope to the left or right and helps shift
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: that viewpoint and helps in that way, then great. Take
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: my story. For the love of God, there's nothing to
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: hide here. Even the embarrassing stuff, I'm like, this is hilarious.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: So let's share this. And like my mom... I love
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: giving people the freedom of like, here's something that happened
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: to me that I handled poorly. Or here's something that
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I hope you don't have to go through. And if
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: you are going through it, know that you're not alone.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: So that's what the series was about. And I would
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: talk to whoever I was on set with and ask
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: them questions or whoever I was recording with. And then
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: the book... I'd been told that I should write for
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: a very long time. People were like, you're a great writer.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't know about that. But now
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: I had a mission. Now I was like, oh, cool.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I can take this... this series and just make it
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: accessible in another form. But also I wanted it to
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: be really fun because self-help books make me want to
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: stick a fork in my eye. You know, like I can't.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: By the way, that's the title of your next book. Yeah, exactly.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Stick a fork in my eye. That's one of the chapters.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Self-help books makes me want to stick a fork in
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: my eye.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No, and my friend Marisha, who wrote
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: the foreword, said something like, it's the last thing I
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: want to do when I'm feeling shitty. Is read a
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: self-help book. I want to go hang out with friends.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: But that's what I wanted the book to feel like.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: And that's what she said the book felt like is
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: just a conversation with a friend who, you know, because
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: there's always someone, especially with the Internet, there's always someone
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: who to walk to walk by you when you were
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: experiencing something or tell a joke or send a meme
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: and and and know that the world would miss you
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: if you were gone. So whatever you are feeling and
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: whatever you are experiencing, it is unique to you, but
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: you are not alone.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: That was just the most important thing. So it looks
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: like a children's book, but there are too many F-bombs
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: for it.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: To be children's. Oh, love it.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: It is absolutely not for children. Do not send this
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: to your children.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Even better. Well, mine are adults now, so I can
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: give it to my children. No, please give it to them.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: And there are illustrations that make it look like a
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: children's book, but it's really... Even better. I just wanted
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: it to be fun.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Is there something that you haven't done yet that you
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: have your sights on?
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Action comedy.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Like, name one of your favorites. Oh, my God.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Actually, recently, it's not even an action.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I made sort of an action comedy. Listen, you didn't
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: even hesitate. You have that out there, and it has
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: been projected into the universe.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I've been wanting to be an action hero my whole life.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: When I was a little girl, like, I'm five feet
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: tall now. So you can imagine how pint-sized I was then.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be an American gladiator. I was convinced
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I was going to be an American gladiator.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Please, yes.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, I'm going to be an
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: American ninja warrior. And I am the most unathletic person
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: you have ever met in your entire life. It's just, yeah,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: it's not in the cards. But I love... So the
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: one that kept hitting me recently was the spy who
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: dumped me. The spy who... The one with Mila Kunis
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: and Kate McKinnon.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Is it? Is that what it is, Pablo?
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: It's so.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I love watching action movies where ordinary people are forced
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: into that position. That it's not that, like, the action
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: hero is so perfect and they know how to execute something. Like,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I can watch that like I appreciate a dance concert, right?
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I can watch that. But if you watch Jackie Chan
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: in any movie that he has ever been in, there
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: is a feeling of, with every movement that he makes,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: even though you know full well he knows what he's
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: doing and he can tell you.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: There's an expression of surprise and uncertainty. There's always like, oh,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: like he's actually emotionally experiencing this. So you kind of
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: feel like, cool, he's just a normal guy who happens
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: to fall into this. Who can kick your ass.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Who can kick your ass.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I can do that. So I really, and I also,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like, I mean... My body's still, it's
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: still going. It still knows how to do the things.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I might have like gained a little bit
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: of weight with age, but I also realized, cool, well,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: if I'm a little bit heavier, then I don't have
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: to take the fat from my ass and inject it
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: in my face. It's going to be already there.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: My face is full.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I don't have to worry about getting gaunt. I literally
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: realized that four days ago. Because I've been fighting against,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I've been like, you know, feeling a little bit bigger,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: which is funny because I know I'm, again, I'm like
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: five feet tall.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: She's tiny. If you're listening to the podcast, she's tiny. Again,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I would never call myself fun size two, but she
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: is truly fun size.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: But see what I'm saying? Like all of our bodies,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: they're the candy coated shell. I talk about that. The
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: candy's on the inside. The body's just the shell. But
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: we talk so much about the shell. And we judge
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: ourselves so much by the shell. So I was kind of,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: you know, I've been lamenting that for some time. And
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: then this week I was like, wait a minute. This
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: is going to save you so much trouble. You're not
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: going to need Botox. You're not going to need filler.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Just stay a little bit over what you want. Your
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: husband loves it.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: My husband's like, come on.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Like, let's keep, please, yes. Yes and.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Yes and.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, I....
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Action comedy.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Action comedy. Action comedy.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: If you don't mind me asking, because you've mentioned this
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: a couple of times when you say, I'm sure it's
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: a layered answer, but when you say, I learned how
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: to live without my depression. What does that mean? What
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: did that look like?
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I do want to clarify. I don't call it
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: my depression.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: And that is a thing I learned from my dear
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: friend and mentor, Kat Stone. When we own a condition...
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: and make it us, it's really hard to move through it.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: But when you say, I am depressed, I'm dealing with depression, whatever,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: like if you put it in those words, words matter,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: and it just pulls apart some of the power.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: And that alone, because she really helped me so, so much.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: I would not be here without Ken Stem. She's extraordinary.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: And so I, yeah, I struggled with it God, I
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: struggled with it on and off until probably 42, somewhere
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: around there. And I just didn't, I can't say like,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I can't be like, oh, there was a moment or
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: anything like that. It was small steps and pieces of
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: information and surrounding myself with the right people.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Boy, that's a big one.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Because I tell you what, confirmation bias is a bitch.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: If you are If you are around people who tell
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: you the world is a certain way, it's very hard
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: to see it another way. And I was just, my
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: picker was broken.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, I've used that sentence before.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my picker was broken. So as I was, you know,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: starting to surround myself with people who kind of live
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: the same way I do where I'm like, every time
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I meet someone, I'm like, ooh, what do you want?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: How do we get it? Yeah. What are we going
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: to do? Tell me what lights you up. This is fun.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: By the way, the first time we met in person,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: like we were at the Astra Awards or whatever, it
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: was that kind of a love fest. Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Because it's so exciting because you're like, ooh, I want
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: to do fun things with you. Yes. What do we
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: want to do? Yeah. Things are cool.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Cool.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Um, so, so yeah, I, surrounding yourself with, I say
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: this a lot, people who accept you exactly as you are,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: but will not let you settle for being less than
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: you can be. They will let you fall apart, but
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: they won't let you beat yourself up so much that
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: you can't get up and go do it.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Did you find that you went through a big transition
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: with who was in your life?
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, part of it was, uh, I, I,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: I got out of a very difficult relationship and, uh,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And because I had sold my apartment in New York
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: during that time when we were going back and forth
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: between New York and L.A., I stayed put in L.A.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: And I just— so I was making a whole new group
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: of friends because I was out in L.A. And every
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: city I've moved to— The city before told me how
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: much I was going to hate it. When I was
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: moving to New York, Chicago was like, oh, New York,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: it's really tough. People are mean. And I was like,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: this place is great. What are you talking about?
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And L.A.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Was the same thing. Oh, people in L.A. are so, like,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: shallow and lame. And I was like, I met the
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: most artistic and giving and excited about life people I've
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: ever met in my lifetime. And I met my husband.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: And I met all of these folks at the same time,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: right after I met Charlie, my dog.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: And.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Suddenly, like being around people who don't hate everything around them,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: which sounds like it's common sense, but let's face it,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: we all have someone in our lives who is that.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden I was like, wait, this is
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: what it feels like?
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: This is what it feels like. To be among, quote unquote,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: your people.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Isn't it amazing that it can take a minute in life?
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: And hopefully, I feel like this is the goal with
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: my children is to. You know, I've been trying to
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: tell them since they in high school, when friends really
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: start to play a part in your life and college
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: and whatnot. And, you know, surrounding yourself with people who
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: really who get you and allow you to be you
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: and who are there for you. Because it's amazing how
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: long we will carry around an old piece of luggage
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: that does not do shit for us.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Even things that I have seemingly moved past, they do
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: take up real estate in my brain.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: They do.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: And guess what?
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: These bitches, these people.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: No, I don't want to say bitches as women. These people,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: they're not paying rent. They're living rent-free in my head.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: I need to evict them. They're bad tenants.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I don't like them there. And yeah, realizing how things stick.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I just don't want to be around... people where there's
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: the potential to feel like a voodoo doll with pins
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: in you everywhere. But I certainly did not get that.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I certainly did not get that for a very long time.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: My husband was a really important part of that. I've
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: never met someone in my whole life who cared more
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: about my happiness and my success than I do. And
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: that was him.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: What is the most important thing or what is the
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: one thing that the two of you want to make
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: sure you do or you have? In your relationship going
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: forward and entering this chapter. Oh, wow. What a great question.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: What's important to the two of you to either have
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: or nurture or improve?
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, adventure has always been a part of our life.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: So that's like the floor. Love that.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: That's a great place.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Because he's a touring musician and I'm an actress and
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: we're such a cliche. But we're also having a great time.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Just remembering that we're always on each other's side. Mm-hmm. That, like,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: we're always, it's not us against the world, but it's that, again,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: you're not alone. I got you. Those were the three
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: sexiest words he ever said to me. When we were
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: first dating, it wasn't I love you. It was when
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: he was like, I got you. And I was like, oh,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: my God, let me just take my panties off right now.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Because the way he would say it. He would say
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: things like when I'd get up to do something that
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: I didn't need to do to try to take care
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: of everyone around me. He would just gently pull me
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: down and be like, you got nowhere else to be
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: but sitting right here.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: So you need to remember that the next time you
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: are correcting him on encouraging you to take your time
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: while they audition. And he's like, take your time. Don't
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: tell me how to feel.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: No, my husband knows full well. If he wants me
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: to do something, tell me I can't or I shouldn't.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Like he has been given the golden key. He knows
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: if he was a manipulator, he would know what to
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: do because he knows it. But yeah, yeah. Being on
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: each other's side is a big thing. And that being
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: each other's champion the whole way. We have both gone
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: through so much. Even just the courting process of getting
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: together was so filled with so many challenges. Yeah. that
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: once we got to marriage, we were like, oh, shit,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: this is going to be fun. Because if we could
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: handle that, look out. Like, yeah, I didn't need the
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: ring on my finger, and neither did he, but we
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: did it because we wanted to celebrate with the world,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: and we wanted to celebrate. My mother and father wanted
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: just joining families and everything. And, yeah, it's just been
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: a wonderful adventure. And I say that knowing full well,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: and I want everyone to hear this, that that includes
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: really shitty times.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Even with each other. Yeah. Having to grieve at the
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: same time over that dog was rough.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: And having to walk parallel paths of grief rather than
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: coming together. Or periods of just challenges with each other and...
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: You know, arguments and.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: All of that.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Like, it's not, it is not easy, but it is
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: work you want to do with the right person. Yes.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: And you can feel the difference between that kind of
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: work in a relationship and the work you do when
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: it's not right. Because that work, that second kind of work,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: makes you feel small.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: It does not make you feel fun-sized. It makes you
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: contract and it makes you all sorts of things that
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: none of us want to be. No.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: And then, you know, if you're the frog in the
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: pot and you can't even tell anymore that you're doing
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: this kind of work that is actually, you know, you
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: think you tell yourself that you're putting effort and commitment
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: into something when what it's really doing is tearing you
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: down more and more and more. Yeah. It's getting that
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: reality check with yourself that this isn't the way it's
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: supposed to be. Either you hear it in yourself or
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: you have enough people tell you it's not supposed to
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: be this hard. It's not supposed to be that kind
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: of work. But you said it right there. It's the
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: kind of work that you want to do. I'm going
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: to ask you because you know a lot. But I
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: want to open the floor to something that you may
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: not know. So I love, I want you to fill
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: in the blank or actually pose the question. Is it
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: just me? or is anybody else Fill in the blank.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Something there, like, you know, something that you might be
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: experiencing or walking through or going through that you're like,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: am I the only one? Is it just me?
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Well, it's actually a really positive thing.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Is it just me or is this everything's downhill from
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: here total bullshit?
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's total bullshit.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: It's total bullshit, right? It's total bullshit.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Like, it's sort of a rhetorical question.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Is it just me or is everyone around thinking, like,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: every time I talk to anyone younger than me, I'm like,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I have seen the future and it is grand.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Don't be afraid.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: It's wonderful.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I get so surprised every year. Is it
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: just me or does it just get better? And not
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: better in a like, ooh, everything is gorgeous and perfect, but...
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: The higher my age, my age is inversely proportional to
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: the number of fucks I give about things, right? So
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: the older I get, the less I have. But you
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: care about the things that matter to you rather than
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: caring about all of these things that you realize don't matter.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: And every time I hit another point of like, oh, yeah,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: I can peel that off. I don't need that. I
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: thought I needed that. I don't need that.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, it's not, it's not a, it's, it's
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: not a bad thing. It's a, it's, it's, is it
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: just me or like, is this kind of getting great?
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: And can this, and, and is it just me again,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: rhetorical question, because I know my answer. Is it just
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: me or can you change your mind about your entire
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: life at any age?
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that you should say that
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: because I always say that when I'm mentoring young people, especially,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: you know, young people in theater programs at my alma
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: mater or whatnot. My advice to you is you can
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: change your mind. Just dive in and you can change
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: your mind later. I tell my daughter, my son, you
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: can just try it. You want to try it. So
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: do it. You can change your mind.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: And we can, too.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Because part of trying it is finding out if you
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: like it.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: If you hate it, you don't have to do it.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But it's great that you bring it up, too,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: because at this stage in game and live from whatever,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of us who can think that, well,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to change my mind. Well, says who?
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: There could be certain restrictions, but have you explored what
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: avenues of trying?
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: And much like my dog grabbing one toy and trying
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: to drag another toy along with him, you can do...
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: More than one thing. Yes. In fact, right now, especially
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: the world we live in is kind of built for
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: us to diversify our creative portfolio.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: We need to be invested in more than one lane
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: of our lives and one lane of our careers. So
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: every time I've moved into a new medium work-wise... It's
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: come from a state of like, oh, I didn't know
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: I could do that. Cool. Let's add that branch to
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: the tree.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Cool. They're going to let me do this.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Amazing.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go do this. I don't know if
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I'm any good at it, but we're going to find out.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: I'm going to try. Yeah. Yeah. You are the epitome
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: of walking fun size inside and out. You bring an
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: energy that is so magnetic and charismatic and uplifting and
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: inspiring for, you know, my audience is obviously women, but
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: anybody who's listening to this. should just know that you
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: are the real deal. You walk around with this energy
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and you clearly live it and it shines and it shows.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad that I could have you on here
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: to share that because it's just a great reminder that
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: we all have that in us somewhere. And if it's not,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: it's about reengaging with it or connecting with it or
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: finally giving yourself that moment to find it.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: And if you are in that dark place, believe me,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: because I have been there. I have been on my
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: knees over, I don't want to get through the next day.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: I have felt that. I guarantee you there is a
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: place you can go. There is a way through it,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: and there is another side of it. You just have
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: to believe it's there and fight for it. I have
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: fought for my happiness so hard, I'm not giving it
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: up ever. Yes.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Now, okay, this is a really interesting distinction. You fought
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: for your happiness against the depression.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Correct. Correct.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: The happiness does belong to you. Correct. The depression is
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: a separate entity that gets evicted. Yep. Love that. Yep.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Exactly. I love you. I love you.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad we did this.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: How hard can it be? With Diana Maria Riva is
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: a Hyphenate Media Group production in partnership with iHeart's My
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Cultura podcast network. For more of your favorite shows, visit
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.