Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep.244 'Imposter Syndrome' - Reflection with Rebecca Stone

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Ep.244 'Imposter Syndrome' - Reflection with Rebecca Stone · The STA Clinician Podcast

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Music.
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Hey people, how are you doing? Welcome to episode 244 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast.
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My name is Matt Phillips, Correlli of RunchoutLive.com. And as always,
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this episode is being recorded live eight o'clock on a Tuesday on the Sports
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Therapy Association YouTube channel.
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In this 10th episode of our Reflection series, I will very shortly be chatting
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with sports therapist Rebecca Stone of glosssportstherapy.co.uk,
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also known as Becky, also known as Becky Carroll. I'm sure she has other names as well.
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Famous for her hats, the therapy expo, and all sorts of things people will know her for.
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And she will be reflecting on episode two, which was recorded way,
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way, way back on June the 2nd, the second episode ever of the podcast in 2020
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with special guest Jack Chew of the PhysioMatters podcast team.
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And it was entitled Imposter Syndrome.
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So very much looking forward to that. As always, people who have joined us live,
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then feel free to ask questions.
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Just kind of bring a few of your comments up on the screen.
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Please do not ask me to pronounce this okay cecily hislop
1:14
if you could pronounce that that'd be great stephen bar are we
1:17
on yes you are steve thanks for joining us to glenn murphy mbe go
1:21
becky we are all behind you question marks okay not
1:23
sure that's about yes we are and gary benson
1:26
pence of the founder of the sta is in here to create some
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order amongst these people which i think
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is going to be necessary so great thanks for joining us live if you listen to the podcast
1:35
and thank you very much as well you're welcome to join us um on a
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tuesday if you'd like to ask questions to the guest or share the time with
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fellow minded therapists and just
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before we bring up becky for tonight's episode i
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must thank last week's reflectioner who was jessica janeman of ease therapies
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who reflected on episode 222 which is called a therapist guide to hypermobility
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that was recorded in december 2024 last year with special guest bonnie southgate
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obviously i love all these episodes.
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And it's like, ask me to choose between my kids.
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Actually, I could do that. No, I wouldn't. But yeah, all the episodes are great.
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But I particularly enjoyed this episode and it's a huge value to all therapists
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because Jessica not only comments and reflects on that episode about hypermobility,
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but also shares her personal journey and that of her daughter with hypermobility
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and Ehlers-Danlos syndromes.
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The discussion emphasizes the lack of information out there and the continued
2:30
misdiagnosis that, in the case of Jessica, caused 40 years to pass before her
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condition was finally recognised.
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One of the most important messages to come out of that episode from last week
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is that the term hypermobility is an umbrella term.
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And as health practitioners, we need to be more aware of this.
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Basically, putting the 50-minute chat into...
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A minute, within this umbrella term hypermobility lies a very important population
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of repeatedly undiagnosed heritable connective tissue disorders,
3:00
like Ehlers-Danlos syndromes, for example, but there are others.
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And whilst hypermobility is often one of the symptoms, as clinicians,
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we need to be aware of asking about other symptoms like gastric and respiratory
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issues, skin conditions, allergies, fatigue, et cetera,
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to help these people not wait an average of 10 years to be diagnosed and make
3:18
the situation worse and put up with often an unnecessary, the anguish-filled
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10 years of not knowing what the hell's going on and not even realising that
3:27
symptoms are connected to one thing.
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So yeah, do check out that episode. For information and support on hypermobility
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and Ehlers-Danlos syndromes, then follow the exceptional work of Dr.
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Jessica Eccles and SEDS, S-E-D-S Connective.
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All the links are at the podcast. If you go to the podcast app,
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you'll see the links on the show notes.
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And as always, if you've got any information or feedback, then you can welcome
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to go to the YouTube channel,
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leave some comments there or email me matt at the sta.co.uk right then let's
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crack on with tonight's show imposter syndrome so reflecting on past episode
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two my guest tonight is sports therapist rebecca stone.
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Music.
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You're listening to the sports therapy association podcast putting evidence
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back into soft tissue therapy.
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Hey Rebecca Stone, Becky Carroll, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. How are you?
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I'm wonderful. I'm okay. You've got people watching YouTube,
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we've decided on Becky Carroll on the screen. Just clear this confusion up so
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it's not profusion anymore.
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I started my business Rebecca Stone Sports Therapy before I was married.
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So hence the difference in name.
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It's actually quite good because my clients can't actually
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find me on Facebook through my personal channels only
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my professional ones positive skill and everything great it's
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great to see you back again and we were trying to work out you've been on the show a few
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times i'm always well received and always well loved when people
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see you and get together with you at therapy expo you were
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with us about a year ago actually it links
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kind of with tonight's chat and it was episode 183 physios
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versus sports therapists which was kind of
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a clickbait to try and get people to tune in but that was
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a wonderful example of people from different titles and
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professions just realizing we're all on the same page but
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i'm interested before we get into that for people who don't know
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you becky could you let us know what part of the world is what you do so i'm
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based near chooksbury which is north gloucestershire as far north of the southwest
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as you're gonna guess and i have been working on my own since 2007 so what 18
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18 years so a solo practitioner in sports therapy,
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Oh, I'm also a regional rep for the Southwest alongside Alex Moore.
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Very cool. Yes. And we love the work you do. Very kind of you.
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18 years. I look at you and think, how? How?
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Where did that go? Oh, stop it. Oh, stop it. I don't know why I did the same with me.
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But yeah, incredible. I just, I don't, I don't believe I can hang out with other
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people who've been working for 20 years.
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It just doesn't seem to make sense in my mind. But anyway, so out of the 240
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episodes of the Sports Therapy Association podcast. You chose episode two to
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reflect on imposter syndrome. Why? Why this episode?
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Well, okay. So I hadn't long been with the Sports Therapy Association when I
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saw this podcast and it resonated with me because it was only really when I
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joined the Sports Therapy Association that I realized that imposter syndrome
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was something that I was suffering with.
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And And actually, this podcast has helped me immensely to try and kind of overcome
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the draws of imposter syndrome.
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But I think that the one area where it really resonated with me was if you view
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imposter syndrome as like a product of pursuing perfection.
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If you can accept the fact that perfectionism is like an act of fiction that
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helps to quieten the fictitious villain that we name imposter syndrome,
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that very much was something that
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I experienced when I worked at Gloucester Rugby Club for
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a year and my role as a
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sports therapist there was to manage symptoms
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so to use my skills to manage the symptoms the
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physios that were there were to diagnose any injuries
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conditions and I felt that I wanted to
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move more into the assessment and diagnostics which
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I felt I didn't really have so it was
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suggested to me that I looked at doing a master's in
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physiotherapy so I went
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along to the interview and I
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realized very quickly that it wasn't going to fit me
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at all it was all the
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questions on that interview were based around
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my experience as sports therapist how would that help me
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as a physiotherapist in the NHS so
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all the questions were based around NHS and so I thought well I've been recommended
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to do a master's in physiotherapy to further my career in the sporting arena
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but all of the focus was on the NHS so I felt that actually by obtaining a physio masters.
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I would probably actually add to my imposter syndrome because I come away not
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knowing what I wanted to go in to know if that makes sense.
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Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So in the end then,
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so you decided not to do the physios.
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Yes. And what avenue did you go down then?
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I continued working in, so I finished working with Gloucester and then I was
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working in amateur and semi-professional rugby, which I did for 10 seasons.
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And I was running my own clinic anyway.
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And life just took me down a different avenue.
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But as I progressed through with additional learning and I built my confidence.
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I realized actually there was a lot more up
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here that I wasn't actually tapping into
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that was you know I already knew
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I just didn't trust that I knew it cool maybe for
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people aren't aware could you give us a definition of imposter
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syndrome and how it applies in the context of a
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soft tissue therapist yeah okay well the
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Oxford English Dictionary definition is the
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persistent inability to believe that one's success
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is deserved or has been achieved as a
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result of one's own efforts or skills and I persistent I'd
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say is the word that we need to focus in on and
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I'm glad that I don't I can say wholeheartedly I
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do not have imposter syndrome because thankfully it's not persistent
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but it's interesting
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it's not a medical condition is it it's not an actual it's not
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an actual ailment that we can you know
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label but it is a term that describes a
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pattern of thoughts and feelings so i think
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we all experience degrees of
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imposter syndrome or symptoms of imposter syndrome thinking that we don't know
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as much as we possibly do and yeah do you think down a rabbit hole do you think
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it's kind of i mean before we talk about jack what Jack said in the episode,
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who's obviously a physio from the Physiomatics podcast team.
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Do you have the impression that
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imposter syndrome is kind of more rife in non-allied health professionals?
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Or is there a perception of this maybe? Yeah, I mean,
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I can only really comment on from that perspective because I'm not an allied
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health professional, but I would say there probably is purely because we would
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look through a lens of physiotherapy is a protected,
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profession whereas we're not and therefore does that mean that there's more
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weight behind physiotherapists?
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That's where you go mentally with it but.
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I think we need, the problem is with imposter syndrome is, in my opinion,
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is that it comes from comparing yourself to others, right?
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So I think actually, if you just forget what everyone else is doing,
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what everyone else is, you know, what their title is and where they've come
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from, their background, and you just focus on what you know,
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so you're focusing on facts, not feeling,
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then actually we've got a lot to bring to the table, which may differ,
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which is not necessarily a bad thing from it might differ from physiotherapy
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and it can it does differ from physiotherapy but it also.
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Complements each other very nicely and we just need to remember that what we do,
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is what we do and what they do is what
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they do sounds simple doesn't it
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but then the human mind it does IP and the and the
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worry and fear and everything and the fact that humans are
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unpredictable and I think that's maybe that's one of the problems I think
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working with humans is and the way we're
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taught we're kind of and we've talked about this in other episodes we're
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taught as if humans are like cars and
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that we're taught that we can be mechanics and some of us years ago
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actually called ourselves body mechanics and you know sports mechanics
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and stuff and and then we realized that humans aren't like cars and there's
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not like a manual and because of the nervous system in the brain the fact we're
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complex not complicated that our patients and clients do react differently and
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and we can't even hope to know why this is and i think that maybe throws a little
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spanner in the works and makes this thing, oh,
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maybe I don't know what I'm, you know, I'm supposed to be doing,
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but maybe that's part of our training.
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Maybe we're taught, well, maybe we should be kind of taught to expect to not
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understand or to be surprised a little bit more. Is that fair, do you think?
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I think so. Yeah, definitely. Good. I'm glad.
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So this is a reflection episode. So you listened to this episode and what were
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some of the points you took out of it?
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Well, what I loved was the irony of some things that Jack said.
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Obviously, he's talking about imposter syndrome. I said to you before we came
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on air, I'm likely to do the same if I haven't done so already.
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But I wrote down a couple of quotes that Jack said, which one of them was,
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I shall probably disappoint you.
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He's already saying, you know, I've got imposter syndrome right now.
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I'm going to disappoint you.
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And the other thing he said was, I am no one really.
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I just have access to a network of quality thinkers.
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And I thought, that's great because I remember when I was watching that episode
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the first time around, I was thinking, Jack Chu, who's Jack Chu?
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So I Googled and I thought, oh, wow, Jack Chu.
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And the fact that he then presented himself to me as human was great because
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we can look to the bigwigs in the industry and think they're quite godly and
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they're on their little pedestal.
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But in actual fact, we're all the same. We all have the same feeling, don't we?
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And so it was really nice to actually listen to the episode again and pick out
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that what he's talking about, actually, he's suffering with.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's almost, I mean, I'm a bit of a sucker for it.
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I think it's, I think it kind of lies in the same bed as being humble and not kind of too confident.
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I think a lack of confidence is quite healthy, particularly in our,
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I think, in life in general. I suppose sometimes not, it has its drawbacks.
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It depends what situation you're in. But if you listen to Jack True these days,
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I mean, with the empire, he's got behind him in terms of therapy live and as
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well as all the podcast episodes and the MSK Think Lab, MSK Reform and everything.
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He'd still probably start going, oh my God, I'm going to let you all down now
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because he admits he's like, you know.
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And yeah, I think a lot of my involvement in podcasts and things is probably
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being affected by Jack and his humbleness.
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Anything I can't master is his kind of trusting Mank accent,
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which obviously is the reason why his podcast is so much better than mine.
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People don't trust southerners whereas if you're a northerner,
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yeah, sort of yes. They trust the beard though. They trust the beard.
14:47
Sure, and he did admit on this podcast he can never grow a beard,
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so that's good. I did recognise that.
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Cool, what else then? So that was nice, yet you noticed how Jack himself was
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setting himself up to like, I've got a bit of that. Nice. What else did you pick up from it?
15:02
The fact that we shouldn't necessarily be wary of feeling like we have symptoms of imposter syndrome,
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but we should be wary of how we respond to those feelings.
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And what I mean by that is, if you're experiencing feelings of imposter syndrome,
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I think you've said this before, actually,
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Matt, where you said there was a period of time where you were referring on
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constantly to physios because you felt, I don't know what I'm doing,
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I'll refer on to physios.
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If you're constantly referring on to physios, then clearly...
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That's not a good way to react to imposter syndrome. Occasionally we have to
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refer, and obviously if there are red flags, et cetera, et cetera,
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then referring is obviously very necessary.
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But if we're referring on because we feel that we don't know enough,
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or we feel like we're not confident enough, should I say,
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then we need to reflect and then change that and think, well,
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what can I do to build my confidence and make me think differently about this situation?
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Another thing that i've heard thrown around quite
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a lot is fake it till you make it which i i believe is is important
16:15
with confidence but if you're faking the
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skill set then that's dangerous and you're stepping outside
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of your remit so again if you're feeling these these feelings of
16:24
imposter syndrome but you're thinking well it's
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okay it's just this thing called imposter syndrome and so
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you just kind of like what we were saying about i had a
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chat with tristan attenborough and he was saying the dangers
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of the other end of the scale if it were of
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imposter syndrome is that you just rest on your laurels
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by saying well this what i'm feeling is imposter syndrome therefore it's okay
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and it's not okay if you're stepping outside of
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your remit yeah so i kind of went down a bit of rabbit hole when i was watching
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the episode again what jack was saying about the uh yeah the confidence element
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it's interesting isn't it because it was 2020 so yeah five years ago around
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that a long time ago. And I like to think...
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I mean, five years later, imposter syndrome seems to appear in every single
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form you go into to do a soft tissue therapy. It's kind of a bit of a buzzword at the moment.
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Yeah, five years ago, it was kind of like, what's that? What is this?
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What is this? And, but it's a conversation that's still going on today.
17:24
But yeah, it's true what you said. I want to highlight that.
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Tristan Atterbury, who was reflecting a couple of weeks back,
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he did mention that on the show and it's a really good point.
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And we should, it's healthy to kind of play devil's advocate with here.
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On the one hand yeah people beat yourself up have confidence in what you do
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you know it's especially if you haven't got that much experience then it's naturally
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you're going to doubt yourself and you're going to have to ask others and that's
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healthy but if you're doubting yourself because the Tristan Attenborough said
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that imposter syndrome like your definition is is where you,
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undervalue yourself when actually you've got the competencies and actually you
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you should you deserve that success you know what you're doing and he pointed
18:04
out very well on that episode a few weeks ago that there's a danger now of therapists
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who try to do something that's not in their scope and they shouldn't really
18:14
be doing it or even thinking about it.
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And then they're going, oh, this is just a bit of imposter syndrome.
18:19
I can go with this. That's okay. I heard about this and it's not that at all.
18:22
And that's, that was a really, that was a, obviously from Mr.
18:25
Trish Attenborough, it was a great point.
18:27
But yeah, people need to think about that, don't they?
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They do. And when I was thinking about this earlier, like I just.
18:35
The irony of the whole thing is that with imposter syndrome,
18:39
you have a lack of self-belief and yet we don't seem to doubt our own judgment
18:45
on that lack of self-belief, if that makes sense.
18:49
So you're saying, you know, I'm thinking I don't have the confidence to do X,
18:54
Y, Z, but I'm not actually doubting that.
18:58
Oh yeah, I see what you mean. Like a double, yeah. Yeah. And you think that
19:02
you should. And I suppose that's where you need to take stock and take yourself
19:06
away from the situation, reflect and go, well, how do I move forward from this?
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You want to focus on progression, not perfectionism, don't you, really?
19:15
This is true. It's a good point. When you were talking about,
19:18
I do remember in the episode, I was talking about the early days.
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I mean, I was so lucky because I was in a multidisciplinary clinic for 10 years.
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I was surrounded by extended scope physiotherapists, great osteopaths, loads of experience.
19:29
And it was a case of where I was like, oh, this knee is not doing what I thought
19:33
it was going to do, or it's not responding or they're, I'm not getting a positive
19:37
for this test where I really think it is this and knock, knock,
19:40
knock. Hi, Paul. Sorry, me again.
19:42
What's up can you just check this guy oh okay and time
19:46
after time it was like matt you're doing everything fine just because it's not
19:49
doing this doesn't mean just keep doing what you're doing you know it's
19:51
gonna be a loading protocol do what you do you're fine and after
19:54
a while i was lucky because you know i realized now hold on i can trust myself
19:58
and go with it wait to see how symptoms change over the week but for clinicians
20:02
who are by themselves you haven't got this have you so i'm i'm wondering whether
20:08
that must be so much more so much more difficult and i never experienced that
20:11
so what was it like for you?
20:13
Was there always somebody you could ask or were you in that situation where
20:16
it was like, I've got to do it?
20:19
Yeah, there are a few solo health professionals in my area that I got to know pretty early on.
20:27
I met up with them and we had a chat and then I realized,
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well, you're someone that I'm not going to reach out to
20:35
and you're somebody that I am and so
20:38
having that little network is helpful and I
20:41
think like I was saying earlier really that it was only really
20:44
when I joined the STA that I felt like
20:47
I had a better network to kind of have those conversations but yeah before that
20:54
point I suffered a lot with the idea that I didn't know enough and and I convinced
21:00
myself for a while that although I got a first class honours I convinced myself
21:04
that they put the first class honors next to the wrong name.
21:07
You know, but actually it wasn't me that got the first, it must have been someone
21:09
else, but I just put it wrong on the sheet, you know?
21:14
And I don't know, I don't want to get too wishy-washy about it,
21:16
but my dad is like the oracle and he's always really good at,
21:19
you know, going, look, just settle down, go to what you know.
21:23
What do you know? And just keep it simple. And actually, a very valid point
21:28
is delivering honesty to your client and saying, look, you know,
21:32
the way you described your pain, your injury, it's like drawing puzzle pieces in together.
21:37
And do these puzzle pieces fit this puzzle or is it from a different puzzle?
21:41
And, you know, and if those puzzle pieces fit, then it's most likely to be that
21:46
you're suffering with a killer's tendinopathy.
21:49
And therefore, we'll look at doing this kind of treatment approach and loading.
21:53
And if we don't get the the outcome that
21:56
we're looking for we can we can go on a different avenue or
21:59
I know someone I can refer on to so it's kind of like trying to put a positive
22:06
spin on the imposter syndrome and making it more of a vocalized thing rather
22:09
than internalized by saying look I don't have x-ray vision I don't know but
22:15
what I do know is putting us down this path that should make you better.
22:19
And I think actually with receiving a positive response to that kind of honesty
22:25
actually eradicates those feelings of imposter syndrome.
22:30
That's a really nice point. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of.
22:35
When you keep it all bottled in and start fearing that I can't say it's my patient
22:39
or I can't ask them any more questions or I can't delve a bit deeper or return
22:43
to my subjective because they're going to think I'm stupid when really,
22:46
this might be a time to go,
22:48
let's have a little chat about this because there's something I'm missing here.
22:52
And the patient's probably going to help clear that up. You might have not listened
22:55
to them enough. So yeah, it's a good point. I like that.
22:59
Um i suppose the other
23:01
thing to say really is that within our industry it's not an exact science is
23:06
it it's ever evolving and i feel like we're just it's just educated guesswork
23:12
at best and so until until we can say that our our topic our industry is black
23:20
and white there's always
23:21
element of do I know enough you know
23:24
it's always going to be there but I think
23:27
if we can yeah not focus
23:30
on trying to be the perfect version of ourselves and actually accept the fact
23:33
that it's a continuing journey of progression then you can kind of learn to
23:39
accept that imposter syndrome is a positive thing well the symptoms of imposter
23:43
syndrome are a positive thing just don't let it consume you.
23:47
That's a good point. Eat it, set it and done.
23:50
Yeah, but then again, these should all be things that are introduced on a level
23:54
4, on a level 5, and that's what should make up that kind of improved learning
24:00
experience as opposed to here are some more special tests or some more ways of.
24:05
Moving this around.
24:07
You reminded me actually, Jack says in the episode, he mentions how one thing
24:11
that can help, this uncertainty you mentioned, which is natural with human beings
24:15
is following the evidence.
24:16
And he says, there was a quote saying, evidence should be our guide.
24:19
And that's one of the big unifiers.
24:21
By following it, we end up with more similarities than differences.
24:25
For you, is that,
24:27
you know, is that something which has affected you where being evidence-informed
24:31
doesn't mean just doing what's being supported by, you know,
24:35
randomized controlled trials, but we have to kind of have that evidence as the
24:38
foundation of everything if we're going to be singing off the same hymn sheet.
24:42
Yes. Yeah. I am one of those people that I like to read the data.
24:49
I like to look at the research and the latest what's going on.
24:52
That doesn't necessarily mean that I,
24:56
poo-poo any anecdotal element
25:00
to it either i think it's a balance isn't
25:03
it and i i you know i'm saying to clients often that
25:06
just because we haven't got the evidence yet doesn't mean that we won't and
25:11
that's not me saying that oh well we'll just tell you to eat cucumber and you'll
25:14
get better because one day we'll prove that it does it's just that okay if if
25:20
stretching after your gym session makes you feel better the next day,
25:24
brilliant, carry on doing it.
25:26
Although the research isn't there to support why, if it makes you feel better, then you carry on.
25:32
But yes, I'd say probably 75% of the way I'm applying myself to my work is very
25:39
much led by evidence-based research.
25:45
That still doesn't stop the imposter syndrome, does it? Even if you're 100% evidence.
25:51
I mean if you if all you do i'm not trying not to annoy you on here but if all you do,
25:58
if you believe that cupping for example is the solution to everyone who comes in your clinic,
26:04
okay and you're doing cupping cupping cupping cupping whether they've got whatever
26:07
it is oh yeah let's get your back let's do some cupping if you start getting
26:10
some doubts and thinking oh i shouldn't be doing this i'm a great cupper but
26:14
i really don't think this is helping then that's where if you were looking at
26:17
the evidence which kind of shows that cupping might help in some situations with this and that,
26:21
then, then you wouldn't find yourself in that situation.
26:25
So people who are doing stuff, which isn't, who are wholly doing stuff,
26:28
which isn't that highly supported by evidence. Yeah.
26:31
I wouldn't be, you know, you're more likely to find, if you do feel imposter
26:35
syndrome, it's because it's kind of like in a voice going, you know what,
26:38
this can't be the solution to everything. So it's kind of healthy that you are getting it.
26:41
But if you're following the evidence and then getting some imposter syndrome,
26:44
but you know, you're following what research is saying, I guess there's a little
26:47
bit of consolation in that. You can think, well, hold on, deep breath.
26:51
I'm following what the evidence informed thing. This is one of those examples
26:54
where human being is just acting differently than what other people in trials have.
26:58
So I think it is one of the reasons to make sure all people who are working
27:03
with people in pain, you've got to follow the evidence and you can do stuff
27:06
on the periphery and do all these sort of things if your clients like it.
27:10
But ultimately, if you're working with someone who's in pain and you're getting
27:14
paid to help someone get out of pain or live with their pain,
27:17
then yeah, the evidence has got to be, yeah, isn't it?
27:21
I think. Anyway, a bit of a lecture there. Let's have a look at people in the comments who have,
27:26
we've opened up some thought here, becky thank you very much dan daniel alexander
27:30
williams is who's been on the show before
27:32
people hope you recognize it a great episode on
27:36
communication and daniel teaches mi motivational interviewing
27:40
so look out for the episode thanks for joining us daniel he says totally agree
27:43
with you on that matt i was lucky too working in the same clinic and
27:46
learning from mike grice good old mike grice everyone's lucky learning.
27:49
From mike grice and i've lost
27:52
my place now he was always at hand as a second opinion that really helped
27:55
my confidence over the years i realized i was lucky with that i wonder how
27:57
i would have fled fed if i was on
28:00
my own in a clinic how is someone alone in the clinic and feeling
28:03
alone competent seek someone out to help or able to refer to
28:06
locally join the sta as a given i think what
28:08
you just said becky that's reminded me this is where professional so that's
28:11
what a professional association should be doing and this is why
28:14
i mean i'm biased and you're biased because we know gary and
28:17
we know gary's intention is not to sell courses is not
28:20
to try and make money out of a professional association in
28:23
fact he's left another association or organization
28:27
because that's what the priority was to make money out of
28:29
getting members gary and the sta
28:32
is all about providing support so people who
28:35
are fellow therapists if you've got questions the idea is you can go to one
28:39
of the coffee chats you can collaborate and talk discuss things with fellow
28:43
therapists and get the support there so so yeah that's the idea anyway so that
28:47
mentioning mike rice actually because i do his anatomy sessions on a Monday.
28:54
And I spoke to him once about, because he's so knowledgeable and the way he
29:00
presents, you think it's, it's all up here.
29:03
And I said to him, like, do you have to prep.
29:06
You know, for each week and each section you're presenting? Or do you just know it all?
29:12
He was like, absolutely not. I have to prepare. I have to go over.
29:16
I was like, oh, thank God.
29:18
Because you do have this idea that you need to learn it all and retain it all
29:23
and be able to regurgitate it all.
29:25
And it was so nice for him to be like, you know, no, I have to keep going over
29:29
it, which is why he's presenting the anatomy course that he does is because
29:34
it's so important to go over and over and over it.
29:36
So again I was saying earlier it made him very much human
29:39
to me which was nice because we
29:43
all have to keep learning oh without a doubt yeah Mike's a great
29:46
example of what an educator should be without a
29:49
doubt Jessica gentlemen Jessica gentlemen from thanks for
29:52
joining us Jessica last week I was talking about Jessica says I really
29:55
like that idea I'll work out what idea it was I think it
29:58
was incredibly freeing when I learned I could say I don't know
30:00
and it'd be all be okay yeah exactly I think that's such an
30:03
important if you can honestly look at your patient in
30:06
the eyes and go this isn't what i expected this
30:09
is interesting but this is what humans do and just and have
30:12
that conversation the patient's not going to judge you if
30:15
anything they're going to like the fact that you're not treating them like a car you
30:17
know that they're going to go wow this guy's really interested this i was really
30:20
like people people can smell dishonesty and myelon and actually i asked well
30:25
i can't my breath my yeah my mouth went from my brain the other day i was uh
30:28
had a client in and he's a golfer and he made a reference to 84 like I had an 84 or something.
30:37
84 was the number anyway I went oh and he went oh do you know what that is and
30:41
I said actually you know what I don't have no idea why I responded that way
30:44
because I don't I don't understand golf at all and I thought I could have very
30:49
easily gone down an avenue where I was I've got into sticky waters because I
30:54
obviously sounded like I knew what I was on about but I didn't.
30:58
Yeah we all do that sometimes don't we but it's good that you didn't just continue
31:01
going oh yeah An A4, yeah.
31:03
I've done that before as well, and it's just not a clever idea.
31:08
It's not. But it's true, yeah, Jessica. It is so freeing, isn't it?
31:12
But again, it's to do with our training.
31:15
Unless you get a great educator, then most traditional systems are setting you
31:20
up as the expert and the fixer, the person with the white coat who is going
31:24
to fix everything, and that's not.
31:26
It does work with cars. But with cars, if it doesn't work, you just scrap it and throw it away.
31:31
With human beings no you can't do that you're not
31:34
a mechanic um you just got to persevere and find
31:36
out what works for that person and they're or listen to them and
31:39
let them tell you what works so great point jessica thanks
31:42
so much for joining us after last week um stephen bar
31:45
says even following the evidence oh i
31:48
was going to do an accent then that even following the evidence we still
31:51
doubt ourselves don't we yeah true but i
31:54
think i think it provides having that
31:57
foundation and a confidence the evidence shows that we shouldn't just rely on
32:01
the evidence i mean that's what evidence in form is the three pillars of the
32:05
stall is like don't just follow the evidence because it won't give you everything
32:08
so the evidence is in the patient's expectation is really important and what
32:13
what's any kind of contextual effect i'm just seeing dairy's comment,
32:16
which is that i respect yeah respectfully decline that one gary thank you there,
32:21
Gary Spence, and founder of the STA, says, I'd be very happy to spend a few
32:24
hours bringing you up to speed on golf terminology and etiquette,
32:27
Becky. There you go. He will as well, though. Just call him.
32:30
Oh, I know he would. Yeah. But no fault.
32:34
Oh, you're doing a Phoebe there. Oh, yeah. I really wish I could, but I don't want to.
32:41
Excellent. So looking back at Jack's episode, I mean, actually,
32:44
now that we've been speaking of Gary,
32:46
Gary mentions, and it's so nice to hear this at the end of the episode,
32:50
because I do take pride in the sort of information collectively we were talking
32:54
about and giving out five years ago.
32:56
And back then, Gary said, the biggest thing I would like to change is the way
33:01
therapists see other local therapists as competition instead of allies.
33:06
And that was, I mean, we shouldn't be surprised when Gary's saying things like this, leading the pack.
33:12
But I think that's part maybe of imposter syndrome as well.
33:15
Just if you're not communicating with your therapist if you're not collaborating.
33:18
If you're holding everything in and competing then you're gonna
33:22
have so much self-doubt so have you found oh sorry
33:25
no go on have you found that i was wondering whether collaboration and
33:28
talking with others has helped well that's what i
33:31
was gonna say it was when i first graduated in 2007 the
33:35
first cpd course i did they started
33:39
off by you know doing their so who are you and where are
33:42
you from and there were
33:44
i think two or three of us that were sports therapists in the
33:47
room full of maybe 40 or 50 people and
33:51
when I introduced myself and said I was a sports therapist there was
33:54
a from the room and I
33:57
kid you not they physically divided the room between
34:00
physiotherapists sports therapists and other
34:03
oh really and in that
34:06
moment I felt oh dear I've made
34:09
enemies here you know and it's very much us
34:12
and them like in fact yeah I'm glad that I've not
34:15
experienced that certainly in recent years and
34:19
the more conversations I have with physiotherapists in
34:22
particular as I've been really positive you know as like
34:25
I was saying earlier you know this is what I do this is what you do and how can
34:27
we work together and I've got a couple of really lovely
34:30
physiotherapists in my area that we work together so I feel like that the competition
34:38
element has definitely for me personally drifted away although I feel like I
34:44
might be conjuring up some competition now by putting that out into the universe.
34:48
But I feel like sports therapy is a little bit more understood by physiotherapy now.
34:55
I'd like to think anyway. Yeah, I think there's definitely a movement towards it.
35:00
I mean, we're all in our little confirmation bias a little bit because of the
35:03
kind of guests we have on the show.
35:05
But, you know, we've had on the show some fantastic allied health professionals
35:08
and other professionals who are on their website now are just avoiding just,
35:14
you know, targeting one type of health professional and everybody in there. And it's lovely to see.
35:20
So, yeah, let's go with it. Let's go with things are getting better.
35:23
I think so. but jack says on the episode that if you do speaking to everybody
35:28
out there now if you do have a bad experience with one physio or chiro and osteo
35:32
or an allied health professional.
35:33
Don't let that tar all of
35:36
the others kind of thing you know jack makes that very clear on
35:39
there you might even have two or three physios but it's not all of
35:41
them and yeah same as you do on them to judge
35:44
all sports therapists or massage therapists with the same brush
35:47
you must have do i think that's a good although yeah
35:51
i definitely i think actually what i just said when
35:54
i do introduce myself to a general public you
35:57
know when you go to a party or a wedding or something what do you do oh i'm a
36:00
sports therapist oh so you massage people that's generally
36:03
what you get back and that's rather irritating that's still
36:06
very much you know the generic response you get
36:09
so there's obviously still work to be done but uh there we go yeah it's tricky
36:16
but i reckon all professions probably get that you know yeah it's something
36:21
we just have to kind of work with how do you how do you what's your follow-up
36:25
to that to just visit out or do you kind of clarify.
36:28
Depends how much i've been drinking really.
36:32
Well and it depends on the vibe you get doesn't there's no point trying to vomit,
36:37
all over them with the whole like this is actually what i do and you know if
36:41
they're really receptive to it but sometimes i have just gone well yeah that's
36:45
kind of kind of that right,
36:47
i've got to be honest i'm a masseuse that's what i am a masseuse they might
36:52
drink yeah yeah so collaboration definitely as if people are suffering from
36:57
from foster syndrome out there.
37:01
Then i was gonna say yeah collaborate and
37:04
talk to fellow therapists but just make sure that you're branching out
37:07
not just talking to a hundred of you because that's
37:10
a danger as well just try watch out for facebook groups and just
37:12
hang out in the same company because that's not going to help you either yeah no
37:16
i at the um at the expo sports therapy expo two years ago i think you were talking
37:23
about this the other week actually is that i made a purposeful bid to go to
37:29
talks that went against my biases just to try and.
37:34
Kind of changed my perspective a little bit and it was it was beneficial
37:37
but i did find myself going oh i knew i shouldn't have come in here but
37:41
it's good it's good that you crossed that step yeah so that's
37:44
what part of the imposter syndrome and getting over it isn't it is like just
37:47
is reflecting on it and thinking on how do i change this yeah definitely yeah
37:52
without a doubt right time is ticking on we are trying to keep these episodes
37:56
shorter because people say they're more likely to start it if it ends sooner
37:59
than an hour so just a quick mention on on the topic of collaboration.
38:03
This is something which we are very conscious of and we are highlighting and
38:08
putting together into the program for this year's STA Southwest Conference,
38:12
which is happening in Exmouth,
38:14
hosted by the ST School and Hands-On Hub on September the 20th and the 21st.
38:20
I'm going to be emceeing it, you'll be pleased to know, over the two days and
38:24
also giving a talk on day two called Mindful Strides, Communication Skills and Working with Runners.
38:29
But the whole conference has been designed with collaboration and reflection in mind.
38:34
What we're trying to do is kind of provide a healthier learning environment,
38:39
should we say, where you are going to have to talk to each other.
38:42
Reflect, speak out loud and kind of, well, you don't have to do it.
38:46
It's totally up to you, but you're going to be invited to do it because that's
38:49
part of the learning process.
38:50
I mean, otherwise it's just going to be another conference where you go there,
38:53
listen to loads of people and get back to clinic on Monday morning and think,
38:56
I can't remember any of that what the hell was that all about so i do encourage
38:59
you if you're in that region it is a regional thing so we're not expecting you
39:02
to travel too far you can if you want to i'd recommend you give it a go if you
39:06
can but yeah if you're in that area around exmouth devon then september the
39:11
20th and 21st is when we're going to be there and tickets are on sale at thestschool.co.uk.
39:17
There's a substantial early bird discount until the end of june and there's
39:22
an sta member discount until the end of June as well that you will find in the normal places,
39:27
STA Facebook member page, for example, or if you can't find it,
39:30
then obviously mattatthesta.co.uk and we'll help you out with that and hopefully see some of you there.
39:37
Right then, tonight we've been reflecting on episode two, Imposter Syndrome,
39:41
that was recorded June the 2nd, 2020, with Jack Chew, the Physiomatics team.
39:46
And my wonderful reflecting guest has been sports therapist Rebecca Stone,
39:50
slash Becky Carroll, of glossesportstherapy.co.uk.
39:53
Becky, if people have enjoyed what you're saying, then what's the easiest way
39:58
for them to keep in contact with you and follow you?
40:00
I'm on Facebook, Becky Stone Sports Therapy. I do have Instagram,
40:04
but I'm a bit of a dinosaur and therefore don't use it.
40:07
But give it a go and your website gloss-sportstherapy.co.uk.
40:14
It's there as well fantastic wonderful well
40:16
thank you so much giving you your time again it's lovely to see you again thank
40:19
you for inviting me oh it was it was a it was a given i love the way your mind
40:24
works and i think you're inspiring as i've said quite a few times every time
40:27
i'll be on the show you are you are inspirational but don't let it get to be
40:31
i like to see a little bit of that imposter syndrome always in you it's nice,
40:35
thanks everyone for joining us live if and people listen
40:38
to the podcast if you'd like to tune in and join us next week
40:41
then on june the 10th and my
40:44
reflecting guest is going to be sophie gover
40:47
the run doctor.co.uk who has
40:50
chosen to reflect on episode 146 of
40:55
the sports therapy association podcast which was entitled get
40:58
analysis for runners of modern approach which was actually back
41:01
in 2023 when gary decided to turn
41:04
the tables on me and interview me about the
41:07
topic of gate analysis for runners so a little bit weird i'm going to be talking
41:10
to someone who's going to be reflecting on an episode where i was the guest
41:13
on it but we'll work it out somehow it'd be lovely to see sophie gover again
41:17
of run doctorsco.uk and it'd be a great episode if you're interested in anything
41:20
to do with running and gate analysis so you are welcome to join us live for that if you want,
41:25
Tuesday 8 o'clock on June the 10th.
41:28
Otherwise, it will be available a few days later on all your favorite podcast apps.
41:32
Right then. Thank you so much, everybody. People joining us live are raving
41:36
over. You really enjoyed that. Thank you, says Jessica Jannerman.
41:39
Jessica, it was a tough pitch after last week's episode, which was record-breaking
41:45
in terms of feedback and downloads.
41:47
Then, yeah, Becky had it tough, but did us proud.
41:50
Becky did us proud from Gloucestershire. So it was great, as expected.
41:55
Stevie Barr says, nice chat, Becky and Matt.
41:58
Okay, thanks. Dot, dot, dot. Thanks, Stevie, for your Glasgow welcome.
42:03
And Sir Glenn Murphy MBE says, agree with all that you said, Becky. Well done.
42:10
Oh, thank you. Which is nice as well. Thanks, people for joining us live.
42:14
It's so nice to see you in here.
42:15
And I do thank you. It makes it having some people in here and everyone who downloads it as well.
42:20
Right then, that's it, everybody. thank you once again to becky carroll hopefully
42:24
we'll see some of you next tuesday if you do enjoy what we do do please leave
42:28
a rating and review takes a couple of minutes and it just helps the good word
42:32
of our guests get out there take care and we'll see you soon.
42:35
Music.