Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Illuvium Joins Virtuals for A.I. Gaming️‍🔥CEO Kieran Warwick INTERVIEW

Transcript

Illuvium Joins Virtuals for A.I. Gaming️‍🔥CEO Kieran Warwick INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

0:05
Speaker 1: Web three, gaming and AI are starting to come into
0:08
Speaker 1: the same sentence and conversation. Today we're going to be
0:10
Speaker 1: breaking down this with someone you've seen on the show before.
0:13
Speaker 1: And then as Karen Warwick coming over from Alluvial Alluvium,
0:16
Speaker 1: he will be joining with us here shortly, so stay tuned.
0:19
Speaker 1: My name is Paul Barrow, Welcome back in the tech path.
0:21
Speaker 1: Let's go into it today. I do want to thank
0:22
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0:45
Speaker 2: Let's go into it.
0:46
Speaker 1: And now we've talked and done quite a bit with
0:49
Speaker 1: the Alluvium team over the past years, many years in
0:53
Speaker 1: understanding the evolution of web three, and I want to
0:56
Speaker 1: kind of start it off, give you guys a little
0:58
Speaker 1: bit of the storyline of where we come from around this,
1:01
Speaker 1: let's go to a clip that Grant Warwick and I
1:03
Speaker 1: talked about in the past.
1:05
Speaker 2: Take a look, and these.
1:06
Speaker 1: Are kind of our wish list for Illuvium. Is there
1:10
Speaker 1: some things that you guys are working on right now
1:12
Speaker 1: to address these issues?
1:14
Speaker 3: Every single one of those things on the list.
1:16
Speaker 1: All right, so this was our wish list, you know,
1:18
Speaker 1: as you guys saw there, I'll bring it back up
1:20
Speaker 1: on screen here. Immutable ax still a wall garden. That
1:23
Speaker 1: was a big question. Hopefully we get a chance to
1:26
Speaker 1: get that answer today. Cross platform mobile browser, consoles, etc.
1:30
Speaker 1: And then dynamic personalization interactions basically AI. And of course
1:35
Speaker 1: this has been quite some time ago. I think this
1:37
Speaker 1: one goes back to over a year ago when we
1:39
Speaker 1: were kind of going around on this.
1:41
Speaker 2: And then I'm going to go to another.
1:43
Speaker 1: Clip because this clip we'll get into a little bit
1:45
Speaker 1: about where Illuvium is now. And one of the most
1:49
Speaker 1: recent announcements they just made Tickle.
1:51
Speaker 3: It like.
2:28
Speaker 4: Sentient NPC's infinite content powered by g A m E.
2:36
Speaker 1: All Right, so you guys know g A ME obviously
2:39
Speaker 1: from the area around virtuals AI, and we've talked about
2:43
Speaker 1: virtuals protocol quite a bit. So I want to bring
2:45
Speaker 1: in Kieran Warwick coming in from Eluvium.
2:48
Speaker 3: How are you, Karen Hey, Paul notes a bad how
2:50
Speaker 3: are you?
2:50
Speaker 2: Nice to see you?
2:51
Speaker 1: Thanks for staying up later, getting up early, I should
2:53
Speaker 1: say there in Australia, so we appreciate it. The Traider
2:57
Speaker 1: we just played and kind of gave us a little
3:00
Speaker 1: bit of insight test to what you guys are doing.
3:01
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about the virtual's partnership, I guess,
3:04
Speaker 1: or the integration that you're using with game.
3:08
Speaker 5: Sure.
3:08
Speaker 3: So when we announced our new Overworld, which will be
3:14
Speaker 3: basically transforming into an MMO light, we thought about what
3:20
Speaker 3: was going to be introduced into that and there's a
3:23
Speaker 3: whole bunch of new content, storyline that you go and
3:28
Speaker 3: play through, quests, boss raids, everything that you would expect
3:34
Speaker 3: in a normal MMO, maybe just cut down a little
3:38
Speaker 3: bit so we can deliver it faster than usual. And
3:44
Speaker 3: one of the things that we've been talking about for
3:46
Speaker 3: a long time at Alluvium is the introduction of AI
3:51
Speaker 3: and how we would integrate it into our games, And
3:56
Speaker 3: the one that makes the most amount of sense is
4:00
Speaker 3: being able to use it for things like a dynamic
4:04
Speaker 3: quest where it's not the same for each situation or
4:11
Speaker 3: each group that goes in there. Things like the path
4:16
Speaker 3: you take, what you say to the different NPC will
4:21
Speaker 3: give you a different storyline that unfolds. And this is
4:26
Speaker 3: a obviously quite bleeding edge when it comes to gaming.
4:31
Speaker 3: There hasn't been that many games that have integrated this
4:35
Speaker 3: sort of tech. And I'm very familiar with the virtuals team.
4:41
Speaker 3: I actually advised them when they were pathed out originally,
4:46
Speaker 3: and so I got to talking with them and their
4:50
Speaker 3: game framework. They actually tested inside of Roadblocks, and I
4:55
Speaker 3: took a look at it, and it just makes sense
4:59
Speaker 3: that they're We're in a position now where obviously their
5:03
Speaker 3: token has really taken off. They've been able to get
5:08
Speaker 3: a ridiculous team together of machine learning engineers, data scientists,
5:15
Speaker 3: and all of the things that we probably don't have
5:20
Speaker 3: the ability to build ourselves they can bring into Alluvium
5:25
Speaker 3: for us, and so the partnership just makes sense in
5:28
Speaker 3: terms of just really really bringing the game to life.
5:32
Speaker 1: Alluvium actually tweeted about this, so it's a little bit
5:34
Speaker 1: more of a breakdown AI driven strategies around the NPCs.
5:38
Speaker 1: You were mentioning that what would be the timeline for
5:41
Speaker 1: this in terms of seeing something coming out of Alluvium
5:46
Speaker 1: with the VIRTUALS protocol.
5:50
Speaker 3: So we don't have a date yet on when we're
5:55
Speaker 3: thinking about the MMO going live. How we do want
5:59
Speaker 3: to play it, though, is we've got a huge community
6:03
Speaker 3: that's very excited about this, as you know. And instead
6:09
Speaker 3: of going out with an alpha or a beta and
6:12
Speaker 3: trying to launch it really really quickly and then keeping
6:16
Speaker 3: that alpha or beta open for you know, as long
6:20
Speaker 3: as the next step comes, we'll probably do it in
6:25
Speaker 3: little snippets and we'll say, hey, we're introducing these three
6:31
Speaker 3: quests and you can go in experience those for a
6:36
Speaker 3: week period, and we will then gather all the feedback
6:41
Speaker 3: from the players and then we can work out, okay,
6:45
Speaker 3: which direction do we want to take things in. And
6:47
Speaker 3: so that's more of like a higher level sort of
6:51
Speaker 3: development decisions that we're making when we start building the MMO.
6:58
Speaker 3: But I don't have it's still so so I think
7:01
Speaker 3: we made this announcement logically yesterday and the MMO was
7:05
Speaker 3: just before Christmas, so I don't have a set day
7:10
Speaker 3: for you.
7:10
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Well, the good thing is that there
7:13
Speaker 1: is a race on right now. If you just take
7:14
Speaker 1: a look at Geno Pits, they're starting to integrate this
7:17
Speaker 1: as well.
7:18
Speaker 2: The likelihood of seeing an acceleration.
7:21
Speaker 1: I think this may grow faster in the gaming community
7:24
Speaker 1: than much of the tech that we've seen over the
7:26
Speaker 1: past years being developed.
7:27
Speaker 2: So the race is coming.
7:29
Speaker 1: And if you look at Powerworld even they are jumping
7:32
Speaker 1: into this, and one of the things that they noted
7:35
Speaker 1: in the article, I think I highlighted it.
7:37
Speaker 2: Let me see if I can find it here for you.
7:39
Speaker 1: With Powerworld, our idea is to take this a step
7:42
Speaker 1: further by aiming for automation with emotion, so that's where
7:46
Speaker 1: AI agents will start to actually interact. I think that's
7:49
Speaker 1: going to be a huge thing component with it. How
7:52
Speaker 1: big of an impact do you think AI and AI
7:56
Speaker 1: agents are going to play on web three gaming?
7:59
Speaker 6: Honestly, if if and I think I was asked this
8:02
Speaker 6: probably by you, maybe maybe a few other people three
8:05
Speaker 6: or four years ago, and I said, look, the tech
8:08
Speaker 6: is just not there right and I don't see it
8:12
Speaker 6: making a huge impact in the next like five to
8:15
Speaker 6: ten years.
8:17
Speaker 3: That has completely changed for me with the introduction of chat,
8:21
Speaker 3: GBT and all of the other AI models that they're
8:24
Speaker 3: all in a major race to who can build the
8:28
Speaker 3: best LLM out there, and it's just the progression is
8:32
Speaker 3: is like something I've never ever seen before in tech,
8:36
Speaker 3: Like it's it's almost scary the point we're going to
8:39
Speaker 3: get reach and how quickly, and so I can't see
8:44
Speaker 3: it not disrupting not just Web three gaming, but but
8:49
Speaker 3: mainstream game mainstream gaming and things like Power World and
8:53
Speaker 3: Pokemon like very very quickly.
8:56
Speaker 1: Well, let me play a clip for you, because this
8:57
Speaker 1: will this will get you into the frame to your point.
9:01
Speaker 1: I think the tech is here now, and in fact,
9:03
Speaker 1: it was just announced that CES.
9:06
Speaker 2: Let me cut to that clip real quick.
9:11
Speaker 7: The world's first AI boss monster, built with Nvidia Ace
9:16
Speaker 7: artificial intelligence, enables Asterian to analyze the player's information, identify
9:22
Speaker 7: unique skills of each player, and determine who to attack first.
9:27
Speaker 7: Asterian recalls past battle similar to the current situation. It
9:31
Speaker 7: then determines the most probable course of action to achieve victory.
9:35
Speaker 7: Asterian adapts attacking with unpredictable patterns. It cannot be defeated
9:41
Speaker 7: twice with the same strategy.
9:45
Speaker 8: Introducing pobg Ally, the world's first co playable character designed
9:50
Speaker 8: to play like a human teammate. I'm looking for a
9:53
Speaker 8: level three vest and five point five six Mo.
9:55
Speaker 7: Found a level three vest and ammo nearby pingo for you.
9:59
Speaker 8: Can you play.
9:59
Speaker 3: Them on it?
10:00
Speaker 9: Moving left?
10:01
Speaker 8: I couldn't have done it without you.
10:03
Speaker 7: I know, I carry for a living, So.
10:08
Speaker 1: That in itself is a pretty big leap forward to
10:11
Speaker 1: your point, tech wasn't there Now it's here.
10:14
Speaker 2: I know it's early.
10:16
Speaker 1: What do you think about what in Vidia has been
10:18
Speaker 1: able to do this quickly and be able to announce this.
10:22
Speaker 3: It's insane, you know, that's the holy grail of what
10:26
Speaker 3: people look for in things like MMOs. You know, when
10:30
Speaker 3: you've gone in and you've faced a boss or you've
10:33
Speaker 3: gone in and done a raid before, it loses the appeal,
10:39
Speaker 3: right Like the replayability inside of the game goes down
10:42
Speaker 3: the more and more you play. And yeah, you get
10:45
Speaker 3: the hardcore people that say, I don't care, I'm going
10:47
Speaker 3: to go in and defeat that boss ten times over.
10:51
Speaker 3: But imagine if you could say to that person, you're
10:53
Speaker 3: going to go in there, he's going to act. This
10:55
Speaker 3: boss is going to act differently based on the last
10:58
Speaker 3: interaction that you have with them, based on you know,
11:02
Speaker 3: as you saw in that video, what defenses you're bringing
11:05
Speaker 3: in what attack strategies you're bring in, No one strategy
11:09
Speaker 3: can defeat it the same Again, it's so powerful that
11:17
Speaker 3: it has to disrupt the rest.
11:20
Speaker 1: Of gaming well, and to your point, I think it
11:23
Speaker 1: also disrupts gameplay in general, you know, because now you're
11:27
Speaker 1: talking about what we've seen, you know, whether it's twitch
11:30
Speaker 1: streamers or really the ecosystem that lives inside game two
11:35
Speaker 1: right now, and most of those top level gamers have
11:38
Speaker 1: done so because of repetition. This is going to be
11:41
Speaker 1: a whole new era possibly within gaming that could change
11:43
Speaker 1: things pretty quickly. Let's leap over to blockchains. This was
11:47
Speaker 1: a tweet you put out. A lot of people were
11:49
Speaker 1: asking us to move to Ronan. One thing is for sure,
11:52
Speaker 1: we can't stay on Immutable's legacy chain. So what is
11:57
Speaker 1: the plan for Alluvium?
12:00
Speaker 3: First and foremost, our plan is on the games right,
12:03
Speaker 3: like we've we went live in July last year, and
12:09
Speaker 3: we probably launched a little bit undercooked. We had a
12:12
Speaker 3: whole bunch of pressure, like it's been three and a
12:15
Speaker 3: half years, just launched, just launched, and we needed to
12:18
Speaker 3: add a few more things, hence the transformation of our overworld.
12:23
Speaker 3: And so the biggest thing is focusing on the games,
12:27
Speaker 3: but the underlying infra is also super important. Right, we
12:33
Speaker 3: are still on Immutable's legacy chain X and the amount
12:39
Speaker 3: of features that we don't have access to purely because
12:44
Speaker 3: they have stopped not supporting us. They do a really
12:48
Speaker 3: good job in saying, look, we've got to make sure
12:50
Speaker 3: Alluvium's good. They're one of our marquee games. But there
12:55
Speaker 3: are limitations with the X chain, and those limitations don't
13:02
Speaker 3: exist on their EVM compatible Partnerships chain with Polygon, and
13:09
Speaker 3: so you know, for us, it's not a matter of like, hey,
13:14
Speaker 3: can we stay on X. We have to move and
13:20
Speaker 3: the probably the most sensible move in terms of like
13:25
Speaker 3: low lift and what we've already spoken to Immutable about
13:28
Speaker 3: is just migrating to the zk EVM chain. The reason
13:34
Speaker 3: for that that tweet was not a you know, a
13:36
Speaker 3: clickbaite like, hey, let's see who's who's around, Like I
13:40
Speaker 3: know that you go on Ronan and those guys and
13:45
Speaker 3: girls there are insane. The marketing value, the player numbers
13:51
Speaker 3: that you get are huge on that chain. I would
13:55
Speaker 3: say one of the biggest limitations for us is a
14:00
Speaker 3: huge portion of the Ronan players mobile based right, which
14:06
Speaker 3: Our Over the World is not on mobile yet. It's
14:09
Speaker 3: such a huge game that has high intensity graphics that
14:13
Speaker 3: it won't be for a long time. So that is
14:17
Speaker 3: one of the like when we think about this decision,
14:19
Speaker 3: like where do we go, that is one thing that
14:22
Speaker 3: sort of sticks out.
14:23
Speaker 1: Okay, So my question would be, this is why gamble
14:26
Speaker 1: on zk EBM, you know, simply a new chain versus
14:30
Speaker 1: jumping over to something say like an Avalanche AVAX. You
14:35
Speaker 1: look at the retro nine thousand, I mean they are
14:37
Speaker 1: really rolling out a lot of in what we've seen
14:41
Speaker 1: is more and more games starting to roll into this platform.
14:44
Speaker 1: This could be one of the key gaming chains in
14:47
Speaker 1: the future. Would you even consider possibly an Avalanche integration?
14:54
Speaker 3: So we're considering all possibilities. We've looked at even some
14:59
Speaker 3: of the newer chains that are that have come out recently,
15:05
Speaker 3: but Avalanche is obviously one of them that we've been
15:08
Speaker 3: looking at for a long time. And our CTO actually
15:14
Speaker 3: came to me a couple of days ago because he's
15:17
Speaker 3: the one who's you know, really pushing this this chain
15:22
Speaker 3: conversation forward, and he said, hey, I'm also now zooming
15:27
Speaker 3: in on Avalanche. It looks like they've got quite a
15:29
Speaker 3: few updates where previously we weren't able to either easily
15:35
Speaker 3: migrate or do a couple of features that we needed
15:38
Speaker 3: that we don't have available now they're here now, and
15:44
Speaker 3: obviously a subnet is pretty attractive, So definitely not ruling
15:49
Speaker 3: it out. And there are some huge titles that are
15:52
Speaker 3: coming out on Avalanche, So we just haven't made our
15:56
Speaker 3: decision yet, but I will say, you know, we're still
16:01
Speaker 3: very very deeply in told with Immutable. They've done an
16:05
Speaker 3: amazing job to support us, so will absolutely continue those conversations.
16:10
Speaker 1: Well, think about this, you know, as you start to
16:12
Speaker 1: make your decision, because if you look at this, I'm
16:14
Speaker 1: not pitching Avalanche, but I'm just looking at where the
16:16
Speaker 1: markets are trending. And you've got Anamalia which is number
16:20
Speaker 1: five right now over within retro nine thousand almost.
16:23
Speaker 2: Let me look at that.
16:24
Speaker 1: This is crazy, pretty crazy numbers in terms of what
16:27
Speaker 1: we've seen with Avalanche in general. Within that and beyond Avalanche,
16:34
Speaker 1: and you look at just being able to maintain development
16:38
Speaker 1: over the next six months to a year. This is
16:42
Speaker 1: something that you guys have stated before. You guys have
16:46
Speaker 1: reduced a lot of cost in your overhead last few months,
16:50
Speaker 1: your burn rate is still nine hundred came out. That
16:52
Speaker 1: still seems high.
16:54
Speaker 2: Again, I don't know.
16:55
Speaker 1: The operation side of it, but the point is is
16:58
Speaker 1: how long can you stay around? I mean, this is
17:01
Speaker 1: a heavy burn and you're talking about a lot of
17:04
Speaker 1: competition coming into space, especially from AI agents and the
17:07
Speaker 1: development of new AI tools.
17:11
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's a really good question, and I give
17:15
Speaker 3: a similar answer to our previous situations where you know,
17:22
Speaker 3: we're heading to a point where we're going to have
17:25
Speaker 3: less than twelve months of runway from about like mid
17:28
Speaker 3: fed with with what we've got in the treasury. But
17:34
Speaker 3: we made some moves recently or late last year where
17:41
Speaker 3: we basically took a whole bunch of tokens out of
17:45
Speaker 3: another part of the treasury where we couldn't access that
17:49
Speaker 3: for things like fundraisers, and we moved that into our
17:55
Speaker 3: normal treasury and now they're available to either to do
18:00
Speaker 3: a community raise, a BC rais. And where previously we
18:05
Speaker 3: only had a million tokens that were available to us,
18:11
Speaker 3: we've now got one point eight seven million that are
18:14
Speaker 3: available to us, which gives us a bit more flexibility.
18:19
Speaker 3: But the main thing here is that we're reducing costs,
18:22
Speaker 3: Like previously we had one point two million dollars. Now
18:26
Speaker 3: we're aiming to get that down even further. And our
18:30
Speaker 3: revenue is also going up, right, So that burn it's
18:34
Speaker 3: not just purely you know, nine hundred k.
18:36
Speaker 2: Where is the reerator?
18:38
Speaker 1: Where's the revenue going up in? I mean, how are
18:41
Speaker 1: you getting new revenue? Explain that?
18:44
Speaker 3: Sure? So Overworld has revenue, Our game cosmetics have revenue.
18:49
Speaker 3: So when someone jumps in and they play Arena and
18:52
Speaker 3: they want to buy a new skin that they see
18:55
Speaker 3: someone else has, or drone blasts or whatever, we get
18:59
Speaker 3: a little bit of revenue from that. Obviously, anyone going
19:04
Speaker 3: into the over World right now and paying for fuel,
19:07
Speaker 3: we make money off that. And we also have our
19:13
Speaker 3: Alluvium Beyond product that sort of sits outside of the
19:16
Speaker 3: core three games, and that is generating a considerable amount
19:23
Speaker 3: each way, from around about one to one point five million, which,
19:28
Speaker 3: you know, it it's not where we want it to be.
19:33
Speaker 3: But when you're talking about having a nine eight hundred
19:35
Speaker 3: K burn and all of a sudden you generate you know,
19:38
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty K revenue a month, it takes
19:41
Speaker 3: it down, you know, a considerable amount.
19:44
Speaker 1: All right, increasing sales volume, big key, there is going
19:47
Speaker 1: to be self custody. This was a clip that we
19:49
Speaker 1: talked to Grant about quite some time ago.
19:52
Speaker 2: Let me play this for you.
19:54
Speaker 1: The ability to eventually hold illuvtars in a wallet like
19:58
Speaker 1: maybe a Solana like Phantom. Okay, in terms of the
20:03
Speaker 1: importance level of that, where would you put that right
20:06
Speaker 1: now on your list?
20:08
Speaker 3: I would say that, M sorry, it's it's it's a
20:15
Speaker 3: it's a hard question for me to answer. That's okay,
20:19
Speaker 3: it's hard to it's it's hard to say how important
20:22
Speaker 3: it is.
20:23
Speaker 7: I feel like it's it's almost too early to answer that.
20:26
Speaker 1: So obviously this was self custody is the killer app.
20:29
Speaker 1: I mean, this is just a I believe it's got
20:32
Speaker 1: to be one of the key features for successful projects
20:35
Speaker 1: in the future. What is your opinion on self custody?
20:40
Speaker 3: I absolutely think we need self custody. But for us
20:43
Speaker 3: to build the tooling inside the game to to be
20:47
Speaker 3: able to go, you know, cross chain, any platform where
20:52
Speaker 3: you know, our users can have it in the Salona
20:56
Speaker 3: wallet or their you know, their avalanche or whatever. It's
21:01
Speaker 3: a very it's a lot of investment for our development teams,
21:09
Speaker 3: and I wonder, you know, what's going to be the
21:12
Speaker 3: impact for that short term. And as we've just spoke about,
21:16
Speaker 3: we've got a decent amount of runway, but we don't
21:20
Speaker 3: want to be doing things where it might just be
21:23
Speaker 3: seen as something novel and obviously a really really good feature,
21:29
Speaker 3: but how much impact is that going to have on
21:32
Speaker 3: us today versus a you know, introducing a new feature
21:36
Speaker 3: like questing inside the overworlds. It's kind of one of
21:40
Speaker 3: those things where the infra questions that we have of
21:45
Speaker 3: what do we need to build in the future come
21:48
Speaker 3: after unless they're really really critical things. They come after
21:55
Speaker 3: the games being in a good place.
21:58
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I think you know.
21:59
Speaker 1: The the thing that we continue to see in the
22:01
Speaker 1: market is there's so many projects out there that have
22:05
Speaker 1: gone this direction.
22:06
Speaker 2: You look at just the Saga rewards, this has been
22:08
Speaker 2: one of them.
22:09
Speaker 1: Genopet's early access right there. That's a good example of
22:13
Speaker 1: what's happening within the ecosystem. There's honey Land on Solana,
22:18
Speaker 1: many of these getting into the idea of where mobile
22:21
Speaker 1: gaming is going to be integrated. Obviously, the capacity of
22:24
Speaker 1: being able to self custee. A lot of these NFTs
22:27
Speaker 1: and digital assets is.
22:28
Speaker 2: Going to be pretty critical.
22:29
Speaker 1: So all of that, and then you look at even
22:31
Speaker 1: some of the things that are happening with major brands
22:33
Speaker 1: McDonald's right here with Pokemon Go and the likelihood of
22:37
Speaker 1: seeing more of that. We've already seen the partnership with
22:40
Speaker 1: McDonalds and Doodles.
22:42
Speaker 2: There's going to be many more.
22:43
Speaker 1: We're privy to a lot of companies that are already
22:46
Speaker 1: going in this direction that we consult with, and they're
22:49
Speaker 1: all leaning into this kind of future. So it is
22:52
Speaker 1: one that I think is super important. What about ARVR,
22:56
Speaker 1: I mean, we've talked about this before, you and I specifically.
23:01
Speaker 1: I think this was a clip we did actually referencing
23:05
Speaker 1: this quite some time ago.
23:06
Speaker 2: Take a look.
23:07
Speaker 1: Do you feel like we're going to see the major
23:09
Speaker 1: players like a meta meaning Facebook and others that really
23:12
Speaker 1: kind of move in this direction. Do you see this
23:15
Speaker 1: as more of an XR you know environment in.
23:19
Speaker 3: The next couple of years. It's it's gonna be tough.
23:21
Speaker 10: The question that you just asked is, well, shouldn't alluvium
23:24
Speaker 10: take advantage of AR and VR tech? In my opinion, no,
23:29
Speaker 10: this space is so incredibly early. It just is you're
23:32
Speaker 10: creating an experience for customers that don't exist on hardware
23:36
Speaker 10: that's not ready to be triple A yet. It doesn't
23:39
Speaker 10: make sense strategically.
23:40
Speaker 4: Sorry.
23:41
Speaker 1: I mean, you can either skate to where the puck
23:44
Speaker 1: was five minutes ago, or you can skate to the
23:46
Speaker 1: where the puck is going to be, you know, five
23:48
Speaker 1: minutes from now. That's the difference between winning and losing.
23:51
Speaker 1: Andrew and I have gone back and forth on this.
23:53
Speaker 1: We had pretty i wouldn't say heated debate, and you know, listen,
23:56
Speaker 1: a year has passed since we had that conversation. There's
23:59
Speaker 1: enough there. Now, what is your opinion of ar VR?
24:02
Speaker 1: Because I feel like your game is perfect for this.
24:05
Speaker 3: It won't work, you know, because it's just never been
24:08
Speaker 3: done before. So you're still targeting a niche market.
24:12
Speaker 1: Likelihood of having AI integration coming down the pipe for
24:15
Speaker 1: gaming in ar VR is real.
24:25
Speaker 7: We're also bringing photo realistic spaces to the metaverse.
24:31
Speaker 4: Into the scanaverse. Is the first metaquest experience to bring
24:35
Speaker 4: user created three D Gaussian splats to life, captured by
24:38
Speaker 4: people from every corner of the world.
24:52
Speaker 5: This is the best wearable display ar glasses on the market.
24:57
Speaker 5: Ar glasses had to be connected to another div if
25:00
Speaker 5: you wanted them to have spatial awareness, you needed a puck. Yeah,
25:04
Speaker 5: here's our approach to Candra modular. Look at this little
25:06
Speaker 5: thing here, So this is the X real I. This
25:09
Speaker 5: is a modular sould separate camera that just fits in
25:13
Speaker 5: right in the bridge of the nose to give your
25:14
Speaker 5: first person point of view photo and video.
25:16
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:16
Speaker 5: And now that the big unlock again is our X
25:18
Speaker 5: one ship. It's our own process that unlocks and spatial computing,
25:23
Speaker 5: which means your glasses now of spatial awareness.
25:25
Speaker 4: All right.
25:25
Speaker 1: So there's a lot that's happened in two years there, Carrie.
25:29
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like we gave we gave a whole
25:31
Speaker 1: space of time there of trying to figure out is
25:34
Speaker 1: x R ar V are really going to be a thing.
25:36
Speaker 2: It's here, We're gonna see it.
25:38
Speaker 1: It's gonna happen in gaming and the reality now that
25:42
Speaker 1: we're seeing these ar glasses come to market. You know,
25:45
Speaker 1: I was even concerned as to whether or not how
25:47
Speaker 1: fast they would, you know, with metiquests and all that,
25:49
Speaker 1: But now in video leaked out this right here. Uh,
25:52
Speaker 1: and this is their patent on ar glasses, which they
25:56
Speaker 1: just disclose. I mean, we are man, we are so
25:58
Speaker 1: close to this man it is here in terms of
26:01
Speaker 1: the advices and most likely the cost. With that being
26:04
Speaker 1: the case, would you change your position.
26:11
Speaker 2: Into an arb R space.
26:13
Speaker 3: I think if you had asked me in terms of
26:16
Speaker 3: like what do I think for the tech and the future,
26:19
Speaker 3: I think it always had the ability to become a
26:25
Speaker 3: more mainstream product that was more cost effective and accessible
26:30
Speaker 3: to a lot more people. I think that was the
26:32
Speaker 3: obvious path of this tech. I didn't think it was
26:36
Speaker 3: going to be one of those things that just dies.
26:38
Speaker 3: And there's so many different products that have been trying
26:45
Speaker 3: to get this right. But I think the difference between
26:50
Speaker 3: us and say like a Pokemon that starts stabbling into this,
26:54
Speaker 3: or a brand that specifically has been introduced to solve
27:01
Speaker 3: this type of thing, like what the pet brand that
27:04
Speaker 3: you just put up Ginopet.
27:08
Speaker 11: Yeah, they're in a position where they've got an established
27:13
Speaker 11: brand that already has an IP that's been used and
27:17
Speaker 11: played by hundreds of thousands of people out there, right,
27:21
Speaker 11: and so for us to basically put all our eggs
27:26
Speaker 11: into one basket would be a bit of a risk.
27:31
Speaker 11: And that's why I think you're seeing Andrews say that.
27:34
Speaker 3: You're seeing Grant say that, and unfortunately you're going to
27:38
Speaker 3: hear me say that. Now. It's just too big of
27:42
Speaker 3: a risk for us to not quite get it right
27:46
Speaker 3: and then need to iterate on that and wait for
27:49
Speaker 3: different pieces of technology to come out to make it
27:51
Speaker 3: a little bit better. We right now have to get
27:55
Speaker 3: our core competency right, and that means generating millions of
28:01
Speaker 3: players playing our IP, generating revenue. So then we can
28:06
Speaker 3: build an R and D department that sits over to
28:10
Speaker 3: the right and says, okay, hey, this new technology has
28:13
Speaker 3: come out, we want to test this. We want to
28:15
Speaker 3: see if we can integrate this in one of our games,
28:18
Speaker 3: and then you know, prove it in a very small
28:23
Speaker 3: sample space and then you know, maybe we roll that
28:26
Speaker 3: out across our IP, or maybe we say, hey, we've
28:30
Speaker 3: got enough money here. Now let's say maybe our next
28:35
Speaker 3: title is going to have VA literally built in from
28:39
Speaker 3: the get go, which is going to make things a
28:41
Speaker 3: lot more cost effective. That would be our take on that.
28:45
Speaker 3: So it's not us saying we're you know, we're not technophobes.
28:49
Speaker 3: They're like, no, that's that that can never work. It's
28:52
Speaker 3: just a situation of like where are we going to
28:54
Speaker 3: focus our time and our development efforts.
28:59
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so I've got one more clip and I'm
29:01
Speaker 1: going to play it. But it's not meant for you.
29:04
Speaker 2: This has meant a game. This is meant for game.
29:07
Speaker 1: Developers because we got a lot of people that are
29:09
Speaker 1: watching what Alluvium does. You guys are one of the
29:12
Speaker 1: I would say the industry lights in terms of early
29:15
Speaker 1: movers in the last cycle, tremendous graphics. A lot of
29:19
Speaker 1: people were trying to figure out a copy what you
29:21
Speaker 1: guys had done, and ARVR has always been kind of
29:24
Speaker 1: our position of where the future might end up, and
29:27
Speaker 1: we feel like it's close. I want to go to
29:29
Speaker 1: this Andrew Bosworth clip here that we'll explain a little
29:32
Speaker 1: bit more for you developers out there that are trying
29:34
Speaker 1: to make a move.
29:35
Speaker 12: Take a look with developers, they have lots of options.
29:39
Speaker 12: What's the one minute pitch to them if they're thinking
29:43
Speaker 12: about building for these devices, these VR, mixed reality or
29:47
Speaker 12: AR devices.
29:48
Speaker 13: The market's super efficient and so yep, there's a lot
29:50
Speaker 13: of people on the phone, but it's also the hardest
29:51
Speaker 13: place to get noticed or stand out. It's the hardest
29:53
Speaker 13: place to do new things because there's nothing new that
29:55
Speaker 13: you can do there. Phones haven't changed in ten years,
29:58
Speaker 13: whereas these new devices are risky because the audiences are smaller.
30:02
Speaker 13: But you have an enthusiastic audience who's deeply engaged in
30:05
Speaker 13: is absolutely desperate to see new things, to try new experiences.
30:10
Speaker 13: So if you have a great idea, you know, it
30:12
Speaker 13: feels like a gold mine. It's going to be hard
30:15
Speaker 13: to break out on the phone, and it's designed to
30:17
Speaker 13: make it hard for you.
30:18
Speaker 9: Today we're planning a brand new game on Steam called Powerworld.
30:22
Speaker 9: This game, I think is going to be super popular.
30:24
Speaker 9: It's only just been released today. I'm playing on the
30:26
Speaker 9: Quest three. I'm using the Virtual Desktop streamer and then
30:30
Speaker 9: inject and that's it. I'm in the game. This is
30:33
Speaker 9: a third person mode, but you can mess around with
30:35
Speaker 9: the uivyon menu.
30:36
Speaker 1: All right, So I've got it so that I can
30:38
Speaker 1: play in first person point of view.
30:41
Speaker 3: WHOA.
30:44
Speaker 7: So I've been dreaming of a Pokemon viewer game and
30:47
Speaker 7: this is definitely the closest we have come to.
30:49
Speaker 3: That, playing powerworlding VR with Xbox Cloud Gaming.
30:58
Speaker 1: All right, So you can see obviously they're you know,
31:01
Speaker 1: Bosworth's got to go. I think a compelling pitch as
31:03
Speaker 1: to you know, for new devs and even projects that
31:05
Speaker 1: are trying to get off the ground. So we can
31:07
Speaker 1: definitely see that. I have one last idea for you,
31:10
Speaker 1: and UH that is the idea of spatial UH and
31:14
Speaker 1: three D assets where Alluvium could go.
31:17
Speaker 2: So here's just a theory that we're.
31:20
Speaker 1: Kind of proposed, not proposing to you, but giving you
31:22
Speaker 1: some ideas, and that is UH going to the IP
31:26
Speaker 1: model and building because I think that's what is one
31:30
Speaker 1: of the biggest values that Luvium has, unbelievable IP and
31:34
Speaker 1: being able to build off of an IP going into
31:36
Speaker 1: three D assets using you know, spatial computing. What we're
31:40
Speaker 1: seeing already with some of these projects out there. You've
31:42
Speaker 1: seen over you've probably seen this project right here, Rebase.
31:46
Speaker 1: All of those would flit right in. And then there's
31:49
Speaker 1: McDonald's they're already doing this today.
31:52
Speaker 2: Here, they're doing it today.
31:54
Speaker 1: I know, it's just right there, man, It's like you
32:00
Speaker 1: can just pull it out and it's just do it.
32:02
Speaker 1: I want to go that route, you know, unite into
32:05
Speaker 1: this ecosystem that could be the future.
32:07
Speaker 3: This is a lot closer in the direction that we
32:11
Speaker 3: would go potentially in the future than some of the
32:16
Speaker 3: other AR and VR ideas, right, Like, this is something
32:20
Speaker 3: that we could do. We have the asset department to
32:23
Speaker 3: be able to pull this off pretty quickly. Yeah, but again,
32:27
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's not something that we have on
32:30
Speaker 3: our roadmap right now. But as as always, I appreciate
32:33
Speaker 3: that you guys are on the bleeding edge and we're
32:35
Speaker 3: really trying to push the face.
32:37
Speaker 1: Hey listen, we're trying to get web through gaming to
32:39
Speaker 1: become gaming of the future, and I think it is
32:42
Speaker 1: the place it is going to happen. We've been saying
32:45
Speaker 1: this for years. It's a scenario that we just believe
32:48
Speaker 1: very passionately in. Is that if you believe in gaming, interaction,
32:52
Speaker 1: a lot of entertainment, you know, finally tech is here,
32:56
Speaker 1: the market is here, the demographic is here.
32:59
Speaker 2: Now we just need.
33:00
Speaker 1: The developers to kind of come in and jump into
33:03
Speaker 1: that whole thing. So anyway, Hey, it's been good catching
33:07
Speaker 1: up with you, Karen. I love to talk with you.
33:09
Speaker 1: We love getting inside to what you guys are up to.
33:11
Speaker 1: Definitely keep us abreast of what you guys are doing,
33:14
Speaker 1: and I think you guys, you know, hopefully this will
33:17
Speaker 1: continue to evolve for Eluvium here in the next especially
33:21
Speaker 1: with the AI partnership with virtuals. I'm excited to see
33:24
Speaker 1: how that turns out. But thanks for coming in today.
33:26
Speaker 1: We appreciate it.
33:27
Speaker 3: Thanks very much for having me on Paul Chase.
33:29
Speaker 2: You bet all right, Sea.
33:31
Speaker 1: All right, guys, if you're not in our Diamond Circle,
33:33
Speaker 1: make sure and get in on that. It's a great
33:34
Speaker 1: place to get additional content on another podcast we do
33:37
Speaker 1: over there, more research all that's available, and of course
33:39
Speaker 1: follow me out there on ex app Paul Baron, We'll
33:42
Speaker 1: catch you next time right here on tech Path