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TCW67: The 2 largest economies in the world are having a BDE-off. · The Curve

• 0:00
  Hi and welcome to the Curve Weekly. The podcast that keeps you up to date with all the money,
• 0:06
  business and stock market tea. Everyone should experience for us at least once in their lives
• 0:10
  and Annie shouldn't miss out just because she can't afford it. Help me own pool.
• 0:15
  Oh, Elle, how exciting. We've got a surprise guest in studio. Thanks for having me guys.
• 0:20
  Welcome! This is the first time we've had like a co-host.
• 0:25
  Oh, it's fun. No pressure. The pressure is amazing. All the finance knowledge and all the stats
• 0:31
  news. Yep. She's well prepared. For anyone who listened to the episode when I spoke about my
• 0:38
  god, honestly, it doesn't feel like forever ago, by the way. Yes. When last year I had a bit of a
• 0:45
  financial blowout and I was essentially going on holiday with no money, like I got to the point
• 0:51
  where I couldn't afford a bus to the airport to the holiday, so I had to call Ella, okay,
• 0:58
  alcohol host, to be like, do you drink for me $30? I need to pay for this bus. It was a real financial
• 1:06
  milestone, I will say. I haven't been in that situation quite as badly since. I had still a few
• 1:13
  like, oh no, I can't do anything all weekend because... Do you think that was like a light bulb
• 1:18
  moment though of like, okay, I need to get my shirt sorted. I think, no, do you know what?
• 1:24
  It's so funny and hindsight because yeah, like I get how from your perspective, you look at that
• 1:30
  and you're like, how does that happen? Like how does someone get to the point where they have
• 1:36
  literally no money in their account and they're about to go on a five day holiday, literally?
• 1:40
  Yeah. However, honestly, I'm like, I look back at it with a bit of grace for myself because
• 1:47
  I don't feel paid. Do you feel more financially secure? And just like, okay, but do you feel
• 1:56
  better? Don't attack now. Like I feel, I can feel it in you. I feel like you just, yeah, I feel
• 2:03
  that you just have your shirt sorted a bit more now. I don't know, I think maybe it's because
• 2:08
  like we just moved to London, there was a lot going on, a lot of probably extra costs you didn't
• 2:12
  think of all that was now. Maybe it's a bit more like sea salt. Do you know what I think? I think
• 2:16
  I'm the kind of person that I don't know something until I know it. So times that you've been,
• 2:21
  you've said things which sound so obvious to you, i.e. like if you're running out of money and you
• 2:28
  need to do like, you know, you you have a lot of foresight. Yeah. I think now that that's happened
• 2:34
  because I'm always have like a slight trauma response from that situation. Every time I get kind
• 2:39
  of somewhat close to that, I'm like, oh, I can't let that happen again. So I'll transfer money or
• 2:43
  I'll do this. I think it's similar to my investing journey, my all of the things. I've learned from
• 2:50
  mistakes. I haven't learned from foresight because I don't know until it's happened. So we got
• 2:54
  real deep on that. So the whole point and so what we're sorry, that was meant to be an introduction
• 2:58
  to Ella. So Ella was the friend that I called when I had my last giant financial blowout. I
• 3:04
  needed to transfer me money so that I could get a bus to the airport. The whole thing was very
• 3:08
  stressful, but Ella came on the podcast and spoke about having been in a similar situation,
• 3:13
  being our world of resonate. And I think it's important for us on this podcast, even though we have
• 3:18
  a very financially literate Victoria Harris, to also highlight when things very often don't go
• 3:26
  to plan, even if you're educated and trying a best. So anyway, that's if you listen to that
• 3:30
  episode, you might recognise her voice, but the reason she's here today, we have been doing a whole
• 3:36
  lot of research. We really wanted to understand where our community we're at in terms of learning
• 3:42
  and investing. And it's just like one of those things we've got courses, we've got all these
• 3:49
  learning places like in the feedback that we get from the courses is amazing. And people learn so
• 3:54
  much, but I know I look at my own experience. I've done the courses. Am I still the
• 4:00
  am I this queen investor who's investing a very five seconds now? And so it was kind of this
• 4:04
  hunch that we had that if this is the way that I am, I've learned heaps, but like am I actually
• 4:08
  implementing as much as I should be? Maybe not. So we wanted to kind of do a bit of a deep dive
• 4:13
  into where everyone who listens to the podcast engages with our brand is at to see if there's
• 4:20
  anything else that we can can do to help facilitate more confidence and more women actually investing.
• 4:26
  And yeah, that's the key thing is more women actually investing because it's like we can educate
• 4:31
  the cows come home and but if you're not actually investing, you're not changing last
• 4:36
  trajectory. And that's exactly what we want to do. So we're called on the big guns aka
• 4:41
  allegrodenlattie who is a bit of a research queen. So she's worked. Do you want to just give
• 4:46
  a bit of context for some of the because you've done a lot of like product development research
• 4:50
  and the whole thing was like I called out in a bit of a state. I was like, okay, I've had all these
• 4:55
  ideas. I think we should do x, y, z and she was like, so we're done. We're doing like research,
• 5:00
  if you talk and I was like, no. And it's just like, I mean, if you've never done that before,
• 5:04
  how are you meant to know? Like the whole idea of building a product, you obviously want to listen
• 5:10
  to the people you're doing it for. But like that process was super fun. I've never done that before.
• 5:15
  So like, Ella, can you help us to figure out what we're up to and what we do? So we wanted to,
• 5:21
  she's actually been over from Amsterdam. She was here yesterday and we did our little focus group.
• 5:27
  Do you want to maybe just talk about what we did last night? Because it was, it was,
• 5:31
  that hasn't even heard about how we, it was so funny thing. You're in your element.
• 5:35
  You're like, right, hi, everyone. They're a gender for this evening. And I was like, wow,
• 5:39
  she really turned it on. It was great. You're such a good speaker and like so good at making people
• 5:43
  feel comfortable. Yeah. It's such a skill out. I was like, very proud. I'm literally dying inside
• 5:49
  right now. You go saying that. It's like, you want to, you've got two lives, your work life,
• 5:53
  and then your personal life. And then when your friends see you in your work life, you're like,
• 5:56
  I feel genuinely ill. I remember that in my work life, and you're going to be like,
• 6:01
  on Monday, how is your weekend? And I'd be like, in my head, I'm not going to tell you that I
• 6:05
  had a massive night on Saturday and Friday and Saturday. You know what I'm like,
• 6:09
  oh, pretty chill. I just read some books and people ask what your hobbies? I'm like, oh gosh.
• 6:15
  I'm visiting obviously. Are you having breathing? It's all I do. Yeah.
• 6:20
  I'm sorry. Okay. So where do you want me to start?
• 6:25
  Should we talk about like just what we did last night? Yeah, I think it would be cool to
• 6:28
  shoot what we did last night. So we put it up on Instagram last week where we said,
• 6:32
  anyone that's in London would be opened, like spending a couple of hours with us.
• 6:38
  We bribed with pizza and wine. Can you come in? And we had quite a few people be like,
• 6:43
  yeah, I'm free. I'll come in. And I was actually shot and so excited.
• 6:46
  Because when it was a sunny Thursday, like the sun has just come out in London. And here we are
• 6:53
  being like, hi, can we have her two hours of your time? Come inside. Yeah, come inside.
• 6:56
  And it was awkward as to us turn into three hours as well. I was like, but anyway, we basically went
• 7:00
  through this process of understanding when people decided to invest what was that light bulb
• 7:05
  moment, what was going on in their life. And then yeah, just like brainstorming different ideas
• 7:10
  of what might have helped them do it quicker or keep investing. And I just loved that there was
• 7:16
  six, actually seven women that turned up to a random location, knowing nobody, to talk about
• 7:22
  money and investing with each other. Like it was, it's pretty impressive. It would be scary.
• 7:26
  They're all so lovely as well. They were so cool. I was like, let's be friends.
• 7:30
  It's also like a testament to what you guys have found in some of your prior research of, I think,
• 7:37
  had 432 respondents to your investing club survey. Literally one person said, no, I wouldn't
• 7:46
  be interested in a investing club. I feel like there's this energy of like women wanting to get
• 7:51
  together, even if they don't know each other and actually talk about this stuff. That was one
• 7:58
  of the biggest takeaways of last night. It was like, at the end, we were saying goodbye, like,
• 8:01
  thank you so much. Sorry for keeping you, you know, over a minute, sorry, but everyone's like,
• 8:06
  we really enjoyed this. You know, and they didn't even want to do it. I'm still there. They're like,
• 8:10
  this has been great, even just to sit here and talk about money. Oh my god, that's really cool.
• 8:15
  Yeah, I think there's like just such a craving for that space to be held. And we've
• 8:20
  better to do it than you guys. And I loved how they were like, you know, would love to keep in
• 8:23
  comfort. It would be kind of like the tasting phase. And I was like, oh my gosh. Wow,
• 8:28
  okay, I thought they'd be like, see you by, thanks for the pizza. I was really refreshing to hear.
• 8:34
  But the reason that we wanted to bring this up and bring Ella into this curve weekly is that
• 8:39
  the ongoing process of figuring out what is the best thing we can do that's going to be helpful
• 8:45
  for your journey investing and to keep learning in the best way is having a two-way conversation.
• 8:52
  I think that's been my favorite thing about the curve today is like, it's yes, it's more
• 8:57
  often than not me, just me and Vic on the microphone. But the amount of conversations we have in
• 9:02
  email or like DMs or all over our platforms and socials, hearing from and talking to people
• 9:08
  that are learning alongside us is amazing. And so I think what we've kind of decided with this
• 9:13
  next phase and as we build out what those offerings look like and how we can kind of further
• 9:19
  help push the narrative forward of more women investing is actually having conversations about
• 9:23
  what would be helpful. And so we just wanted to say to everyone who's listening, anyone that has
• 9:30
  found our content useful but also would love to, yeah, I guess have a bit more help when it comes
• 9:35
  to investing and growing your wealth, we would love to ask if you would be open to participating in
• 9:41
  a research piece. So we've put together another massive survey, which to be fair,
• 9:49
  you're probably going to take you at least 10 to 15 minutes. We'll be honest, it's not a quick,
• 9:53
  you know, one and done, but we're going to send that out in an email tomorrow and just keep an
• 10:00
  eye on your inbox. If it comes in, we're going to put a little like thank you slash bribery in there
• 10:06
  so that the first, you know, however many people that complete it get exquisite. So we'll have all
• 10:10
  those details in the email, but yeah, I guess we just want to say we would be super grateful if
• 10:15
  you're open to coming on this like discovery journey with us because we don't want to go and spend
• 10:20
  heaps of money on something that's not going to be helpful. Yeah, we want you guys to benefit.
• 10:24
  It's also a really rare opportunity in that what you guys have created and with the community
• 10:32
  and how engaged everyone is to do this approach of like it's effectively community lead design
• 10:41
  for both sides for the community to be able to literally come to you guys and go this is what we
• 10:46
  want and why and the fact that you've already got the relationship in the two-way conversation
• 10:53
  channel open is like from my perspective and in what you're doing product development, a dream
• 11:00
  like the conversations already started this is going to be this beautiful exchange of like literally
• 11:05
  the community going this is what we want and why and yeah, I'm so excited for how it turns out
• 11:11
  because it's very rare that there is that conversation. And I do think in the financial space like
• 11:17
  and this is not to shit over all the products that are out there, but you know often they've been
• 11:21
  created by guys and often they don't appeal to women and so I think to be in a situation where
• 11:27
  there's hate to be created for people that have financial knowledge and there's so many amazing
• 11:33
  platforms out there like you know like the difference that platforms like Shazies and other
• 11:38
  DIY platforms have democratized and allowed us to all invest with small amounts is amazing,
• 11:43
  but I think that you know it's just there's just I think a lot more that could be done to help
• 11:48
  support the investing journey for women all over the world and so yeah it is super unique to be
• 11:54
  able to be like what do you actually need and want and then to be able to help facilitate
• 11:59
  that hopefully is really exciting. So this is basically a sort of please help us
• 12:05
  please fill out our surveys that we'll try and make as fun as possible. That's just a
• 12:08
  256 questions, but yeah, no we're coming at the fuck down. I messaged Ella being like this is
• 12:16
  the way through and I was like oh my god I'm falling asleep and this is my
• 12:20
  yeah my confidence. Yes I was like I kind of would prefer eating these. I'll be given
• 12:24
  a door to a survey roast. Yeah it is getting reduced. We also we can add content in their videos
• 12:31
  trope pictures. Oh it's a note. No I'm just trying to get one of the amount of people that have
• 12:36
  messaged me. There's no question 56. Oh fine. Yes. Okay I think that's probably enough
• 12:43
  about our plans, but Ella just since you're here and this is rare to be here from Amsterdam,
• 12:48
  do you want to just stay in chat for the curve weekly? Like do you want to just be a part
• 12:52
  you don't have to say anything you can just sit and listen because you have a single beat of
• 12:57
  sweat stopping down my face. But if you feel like you'd like to interject at any point please do it.
• 13:02
  The stocks are going very very well. The stock market is going up.
• 13:09
  Bellard. Bellard is it. Is it a bull or a bear? Take over. There's been a bit of an update
• 13:16
  with TikTok. Okay. So remember a while ago the the US government was like we're going to ban
• 13:23
  TikTok and it's about to be passed as law. No is it real? At least TikTok sells to
• 13:33
  sorry bite bite dancers the parent company and these they sell TikTok to a US company.
• 13:38
  Yeah. So it's getting to like crunch time but now bite dance. How can they force a company
• 13:44
  to sell? That's what I don't understand. Boy so you can ban it from the US or you can sell
• 13:48
  so a US company owns it. Imagine the meetings that they'll be having like the like you know top
• 13:53
  management being like what do we do. But like I kind of imagine having to sell the curve or
• 13:59
  shut it down. You're not like you'd be quite a sad conversation I think. I mean I think that
• 14:04
  you sell it to someone you don't want to sell it to. Yes but you can't operate. It's like
• 14:09
  thanks. It's like the worst the best worst outcome. I don't know. Yeah. But anyway so it's
• 14:15
  the now bite dance has sued the US government. So they're saying that you're violating free speech
• 14:24
  which is the first amendment. So you're like people should be able to say what they want and share
• 14:29
  their free speech effectively. And so it's now come down to a battle of yeah free speech
• 14:35
  or national security. It's kind of like they're both so bloody important. It's like the financial
• 14:40
  loss for bite dance. Bite dance. One dance. What's a good one? Bite dance. One dance. Sorry that's
• 14:47
  right. There's no sense. We just had a little conversation about the whole Drake Kendrick Lamar.
• 14:52
  Beef. Beef. So that was probably from my brain. Can you update me? I genuinely don't know what's
• 14:55
  going on. I don't know. I do. So they both of them kind of think they're the king of hip hop right
• 15:01
  and they release like this song. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's popping off. Yeah. And then Drake.
• 15:07
  There was an AI track. Like they made an AI track of a Drake song. And then Drake put that sample
• 15:13
  it in his song. So Kendrick Lamar's like, what are you up to? You know? Like using AI in your songs.
• 15:19
  Typical. Oh. Yeah. Shit. And P Diddy. God. There's a lot going on in the non-finance world. But we
• 15:26
  are here to talk about. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can people and you can't
• 15:33
  invest and bite dance right? I don't know. I'm pretty sure it's a private company which
• 15:38
  but yeah. Can you Google that? It is a private company. Yeah. But I think it's more like
• 15:44
  how this is going to impact. Yeah. There's so many ideas. Yeah. Small businesses. Like people
• 15:49
  that earn living off TikTok in the US. So it's not so much the idea of what TikTok's going to
• 15:54
  lose is the idea of what all of those little small businesses. Yeah. Exactly. They've built
• 15:59
  incredible businesses on those platforms. I mean, you know, it's kind of a good thing to relate
• 16:03
  to the party with TikTok. Oh my gosh. So all the massive. I mean, we're not in the US.
• 16:10
  No, I know. But I mean, like all the massive. I did go down a spiral. I was like, oh my gosh.
• 16:14
  What are we going to do? And I was like, oh, no, I don't know. Do you know what our TikTok was
• 16:19
  very embarrassing for a while? We had like two followers. We've caught over 10,000. That's all
• 16:23
  that bad. No, that's great. Do you know actually the, and this is credit to the TikTok algorithm?
• 16:29
  I'm pretty sure the reach you get on TikTok, even though audience is so much smaller.
• 16:33
  It's so much bigger. Yeah. So I do think it's definitely the algorithms are great. Yeah.
• 16:39
  It's definitely superior in terms of exposure and like what I think Instagram has, it's
• 16:46
  now so regulated. And it's algorithms away. It serves content that it makes it really hard
• 16:51
  for people to kind of like build the platform on there, which sucks. And so I think TikTok's
• 16:55
  done that so well. I mean, we're still literally absolute babies on that. And oh my god,
• 17:01
  this video went semi viral this week on our TikTok. The comments. Sorry. Can I just quickly read
• 17:07
  this? Because this is absolutely hilarious. So there's a video that, well, I think that's
• 17:12
  the difference between TikTok and Instagram though, is the comments, the comments.
• 17:16
  So you get roasted on there. You get so funny. So like basically,
• 17:20
  Vic was talking at last week about how she went on a date with someone or she, no, she went
• 17:25
  home with someone. No, no, I'm sorry. I met him at a bar and we hooked up at the bar,
• 17:31
  like kissed and then he dropped me home in an Uber and he continued to his house.
• 17:36
  Yes. So he knew my address. Oh, and so in the next day was Valentine's.
• 17:41
  And I woke up to this bottle of tequila on my doorstep. And I was like, I was instantly like,
• 17:48
  what a fucking crepe. Yeah. And then we were like, how funny it is now though,
• 17:52
  if that happened now, you'd be like, oh my god, marry me. You know, like dating your 20s versus
• 17:56
  dating your 30s. Quite funny. And you just see all these green flags in your 20s. And you're like,
• 18:01
  no, I'm not ready. No, I'm not ready. And then you get your 30s and you're like, where are
• 18:04
  the fuck? It's just all red flags everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Bring me a bottle of tequila,
• 18:09
  this is some of the comments on TikTok. Like she didn't drink the bottle of tequila as well.
• 18:14
  And then like, 26 people have liked it. Just love to see woman cry when they figure out it's too
• 18:18
  late for them. Majority of woman figure out the right guy when it's too late. So when we try it's
• 18:25
  creepy and we also try a woman moan that we don't bother anymore, literally can't win. Humble
• 18:30
  thyself. Geez, the guy probably liked her. Thought it would be a nice gesture to show you just
• 18:36
  simply can't win. Oh my god. This is why guys don't waste their time. It's called being kind,
• 18:41
  but sending a valentine say gift is creepy. Gee was. She's cooked. Clancy woman. Oh, not anyway. Sorry,
• 18:49
  have a stop. Yeah, I'm okay. Okay. So she keeps going. She wants to hear more. So anyway,
• 18:56
  the point is TikTok might be banned in the US, which means a shitload of money being lost for
• 19:03
  small companies and also TikTok as well. I wonder how many billions is created from TikTok?
• 19:09
  Yeah. Like what that amount just gets wiped from the yeah, yeah, definitely. And it's like, I think
• 19:15
  it's a good reminder to like diversify your revenue streams, your platforms, if you are a small
• 19:20
  business, because like you never know if something's going to get hacked or something's going to
• 19:24
  get like shut down or something might increase its price. It might impact you a lot. So it's like
• 19:29
  just diversify your revenue. But I think this will play out for a lot longer than we expect,
• 19:34
  because it's it's like a big dick energy. It's like it's just kind of going, you know what,
• 19:40
  you've done this. I'm going to do this. It's tit for tat. Yeah. It's like it's natural security.
• 19:45
  It's free space. No, it's not. It's too the two biggest economies in the world having a
• 19:50
  penis competition. Sorry. Just let it out. Yeah. Yeah. In other news, Bumble. So they had a really
• 19:57
  great result. Can we just for a second fangle over what you heard? Yeah. She is iconic. I really just
• 20:07
  look at what she has done for female. I hate sorry, I know you hate this as well, but like the whole
• 20:14
  like the way she's built that company, she's had kids, she's had a life and she's
• 20:18
  created like a billion dollar company. I'm just like you are awesome. And she said so under the
• 20:22
  radar. I wasn't until she listed and all of the sudden was this. Yeah. I can't. I don't know.
• 20:28
  I just I think if I was to have you know how people like who would you like to have dinner with,
• 20:32
  they're dead or alive, she would probably be up there. She'd be on the table. Yeah. Mine's
• 20:35
  Madeleine McCain. That's what I wish you. No, I actually agree. I don't know. I don't know what
• 20:43
  happens. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Sometimes you honestly shock me with like honestly, I just like
• 20:52
  is so so lefty. I'm just like, I'm okay. Oh my god. The biggest ministry. That would be phenomenal.
• 21:03
  Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I don't see this with you. I don't see this with you.
• 21:16
  Anyway, so Bumble had a really great result. It's like so sad to stick with that. Not of Gandhi.
• 21:24
  What likes Marla Luther King? No. Absolutely not. I'm okay. Yeah.
• 21:32
  10-year-old. Oh, sorry. Okay. I'll meet you soon. I'm so sorry if this has been
• 21:36
  triggering. So yes. Bumble had a really great result. Bumble had a really great result. So
• 21:42
  they've down got four of you. Sorry. I'm looking so funny. It's like I'll meet you soon.
• 21:51
  Sorry. Okay. I'm sorry. Sorry. So I don't know why though. These dating app platforms just don't
• 22:04
  do well. Like they release great results. They share prices up for a bit and then it starts falling
• 22:09
  again. Like Bumble's share prices down 80% since it IPO in 2021. Wow. Like it just keeps going
• 22:16
  down and down and down. And yes, this results. So it grew. It's app downloads by nearly 20% and
• 22:21
  it's got four million users, which you probably was like, woohoo. Maybe like 250 million in three
• 22:26
  months. But then the share price goes up a bit and then it just falls away again. So it's like there's
• 22:31
  something fundamentally wrong with your business model. If this share price is continuing to fall
• 22:36
  and fall and fall and fall. Because even good results like good financial results can't keep,
• 22:42
  can't support it. Which means there's something people don't like about the future of the business
• 22:47
  or which is kind of comes back to the whole business model. So it is the business model or is it
• 22:52
  the industry in terms of online dating? And the reason I'm asking it is just because I definitely feel
• 22:59
  this undercurrent, particularly with Gen Z, like turning away from funds. I think people are a bit
• 23:04
  like actually fuck my screen. You know, like I'm not. I don't want these phones anymore. Like I
• 23:10
  want to actually live my life. I just wonder if there's some kind of prediction around social media
• 23:16
  meeting online that's going to somewhat fall off a cliff in the next five years. And I don't know
• 23:20
  that could be totally off. But Tinder and Hinge haven't done well. Their share prices are down
• 23:25
  massively. So it's just like, do you think it's the business model? And if so, what part of it?
• 23:29
  Like I think it's, I think it's a business model and that you go on it.
• 23:34
  You the whole aim is to find a partner or or find a friend. And then once you do, you leave the
• 23:40
  platform. So there's not that recurring usage there is what you're dating. But then and I'm
• 23:46
  speaking, you know, very stereotypically here, but majority of people find a partner and then
• 23:51
  are with them for a very long time. So you're not using these apps again. Oh my god. What if they
• 23:55
  did some kind of commission thing where if you like found your long term partner online,
• 23:59
  you had to pay Hinge for like, yeah, you know, like so much. But instead of paying a marriage
• 24:04
  to forget you at pay Hinge. Yeah. The question though, because Hinge's whole, well, maybe it's just
• 24:09
  what they talk about in terms of their brand and marketing and how they're actually trans like
• 24:12
  into their business model. But you know, their whole thing is like, this app has been built to be
• 24:16
  deleted. They are like, yes, they do say that. Yeah. And so you wonder with the like, how that
• 24:22
  turns up in the actual business model or how they're, but from an investment point of view,
• 24:28
  you're constantly having to find new customers. Yeah. I think from a user customer point of view,
• 24:33
  it's great. From an investment point of view, maybe it's not great. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.
• 24:37
  Yeah. Anyway, this is a bit up your alley. So if an alley, yeah. So last week,
• 24:44
  some investors, so when you invest in a company, you buy a share, you can actually vote on things
• 24:49
  that the business decides to do. So you can say yes or no, you can say, I don't want these
• 24:53
  directors on the board making decisions. And a bunch of investors have come together at shell
• 25:00
  and said that they want them to be more, they want them to be better with their
• 25:07
  emission target goals. And they've said that they want them to align with the Paris Agreement.
• 25:14
  And can you update me on the Paris Agreement? Maybe L, you could explain this. Yeah.
• 25:19
  It's just the UN has conferences every year. As you know, the Paris Agreement was one year
• 25:26
  where they put the 1.5 degree limit and wrote it into an agreement that is international.
• 25:35
  So even on the UN kind of signs up to it. Some people didn't sign, but it's now the gold standard
• 25:41
  for any entity, national, international and especially companies now need to stick to or it's
• 25:50
  kind of like the good thing to do, the corporate responsible thing to do. And so a lot of big
• 25:56
  corporations, even small ones have aligned all their emissions reduction targets to be in line
• 26:02
  with this Paris Agreement. So we're all effectively on the same river,
• 26:06
  heating to the same destination. And now, because it was, it was 2030, isn't it?
• 26:12
  Well, 2050. 2030, yeah. So now we're getting closer to 2030. There's a number of big companies
• 26:18
  that are like, you know what, we're not, we're not going to hit it and we're pulling out or like,
• 26:22
  we can't commit to it. It's just too, too stringent, too difficult. And big companies like
• 26:29
  Shell is one of them, which is really one of the biggest oil and gas companies in the world.
• 26:34
  And so investors are now going, hang on a second, no, no, that's not good enough. Like,
• 26:37
  you need to. Yes, because honestly, you almost would think people that are invested in that
• 26:42
  company kind of maybe don't care is much, you know, which is such a shit thing to say, but
• 26:47
  if you're investing in an oil and gas company, you probably don't have super high environmental
• 26:51
  values, right? Yeah. Well, this is the conversation. If we're sitting here not investing in Shell
• 26:58
  because of what it does, but there's other people that invest in these companies to bring change.
• 27:03
  And they buy shares, they become shareholders, so they can vote and say, no, no, you have to stick
• 27:08
  to your agreement or you have to do better or, you know, so they, they're actually doing a better
• 27:15
  job than we are because we're just sitting here going, no, no, we don't, those are companies
• 27:19
  who I know want support. But there's also a step up from that is like, you can invest in them and
• 27:24
  yes, you're, you're giving them money to grow, but you're also giving them money to change.
• 27:28
  Interesting. What do you think about that? I think it's also, I think that this whole idea of
• 27:35
  like activists investing and there's also a theory called the Just Transition Theory, which is just
• 27:40
  a fancy name to say that if we're going to change the world, we can't just scrap the old one and
• 27:45
  go, sorry, Shell, buy, you know, we're going to shut your whole company down. It's just absolutely
• 27:50
  infeasible to do it and it's also delusional to think we can do it that way. And so there's this
• 27:54
  theory called the Just Transition Theory, which asks that question is, how are we going to transition
• 27:59
  these huge companies that ultimately profit off extraction? They too need to be transition.
• 28:05
  What's the most effective way to do it? Exactly. The next point is get people in there who actually
• 28:10
  by law have the ability to vote and almost like strong arm them from the inside to change. Also,
• 28:18
  these companies, they're the only ones that have their hands in so much infrastructure, so many
• 28:23
  supply chains, they're the ones that have to make the change, right? And they're like a tiny little
• 28:28
  improvement from them. It's huge because they're like so massive. But this is the thing, it's like you
• 28:34
  can get in there and you can try and bring around positive change. But then there might be other
• 28:39
  investors that are like, no, no, we're happy with the status quo. So it's kind of this like
• 28:43
  battle. And but also like bringing about change and investing in new technologies, that costs money.
• 28:50
  So they need capital to transition. So I don't know, it's just this constant discussion and argument
• 28:58
  and thought process in the investing world is that a lot of people are like, you know what? We're
• 29:03
  not going to invest in oil and gas or anything like that. And other people just have a different
• 29:10
  view that we want to get in there and actually bring around change. So there's no right or wrong.
• 29:14
  It's just if you kind of shut off and say like, no, I'm not investing all these companies because
• 29:20
  they find to be and don't align with my values. It's almost like out of sight out of mind and you're
• 29:25
  not having an impact, you're just turning a blind eye. And so I do understand the concept of it.
• 29:30
  I just think for me, if I had money that I was benefiting from, like I just don't know if it would
• 29:37
  sit with me. Like I don't know how to explain it. There's no right or wrong either. It's like you
• 29:42
  putting your money and you in hundreds of thousands of other people giving money to companies that
• 29:47
  that are having a positive impact on the environment. You're sucking away, like you're giving
• 29:52
  their money to grow and the companies that aren't doing good can see that. And they're like, oh,
• 29:56
  fuck, well, how do we get access to that money? We have to change ourselves. So you're not, it's not
• 30:01
  that it's out of sight out of mind. Like your money is still sending a signal. And it's just,
• 30:07
  it's how you how you want to approach it. Some people are like, I don't want to be an active investor
• 30:12
  or you know, it might leave that to to to to funds or companies that don't be stuck.
• 30:18
  Has bigger. Yeah. And they can buy a bigger stake. And they yeah. But like it's just a really good
• 30:23
  example of, you know, finally, people aren't just sitting there and owning these companies and,
• 30:28
  you know, they're passionate about their issues, speaking up and using their voice. Yeah.
• 30:32
  Ella, I'm curious because you're such a like just for context, Ella's done a lot of work in like
• 30:37
  the climate space and and about like redesigning companies and it's just like very, very skilled
• 30:44
  and aware of what's going on in the world. And I'd love to know from you, you're also obviously
• 30:49
  interested in investing. How how where you sit in that spectrum of like when it comes to investing
• 30:55
  is it because I know you care so much about the planet. When it comes to investing, is it something
• 30:59
  that actually genuinely sues your decision whether or not you invest in a company or like, how do
• 31:04
  you feel about it? I think so. I think it's it's also hard though because if you're not confident
• 31:10
  in investing and you're adding that variable and you're like, okay, I really don't know what I'm
• 31:14
  going to do now. But then what you guys or I've learned a lot from you guys about just like get
• 31:19
  really clear on what your principles are and just almost use it like a checklist of being like,
• 31:23
  it's pretty easy to just do a little Google and see what a company's up to and then do that.
• 31:28
  And the money markets are crazy and the sense of they fund so much extraction. But then we,
• 31:34
  it's going to take the money markets to save the world effectively. And so the quicker we can all
• 31:40
  yes, invest this way or yeah, yeah, make this a priority. It's like because you genuinely vote
• 31:46
  with your dollars, right? That is it. You vote for the world you want with your dollars. So I'm
• 31:51
  just so resonate with what you guys talk about about like just getting in the market as quickly as
• 31:55
  possible. And that's sorry, that's from an investor point of view and a consumer point of view.
• 31:59
  Yeah, you know, it's like businesses can't function without money from an investment point of
• 32:03
  view and a customer point of view. So there's kind of two ways that you can align money with your
• 32:09
  values. I'm just thinking lastly, yeah, I'm like poor Emily, don't have anything to edit this.
• 32:16
  Lastly, we had some kind of good news out of the UK about the June to pay gap. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:22
  So last year, the June to pay gap has fallen to its lowest level. Yeah, it's still 9% but
• 32:30
  it's okay. Are we getting there? We're down from 9.2 to 9. It's going to help us celebrate the
• 32:36
  win. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is great. Yeah. If you're listening to this podcast,
• 32:40
  do a little boogie. But I looked at that figure and I was like, oh, that's good. It's going
• 32:45
  the right direction, but yeah, it's still 9%. And then I was like dig to deeper into different
• 32:50
  industries in the UK and their pay gaps, the gender pay gaps. And finance, it's over 20%.
• 32:58
  What? Like over 20% less for the same job. Like, anyway, yeah. Guys must just be like,
• 33:07
  getting a 20% pay rise, a 20% pay rise that anyone listening, any females and finance listening
• 33:12
  should be going and asking for a 20% pay rise. That's just in the UK. And then accommodation
• 33:18
  in like hospital, there was less than 1%. So that's, that's quite good. Yeah. But the other thing
• 33:24
  was that British Airways, this is one of the biggest UK employers. So they employ, and yeah,
• 33:31
  so they've got about, I think it's about 30, 40,000 people they employ. They've got a 30%
• 33:37
  gender pay gap in their firm. Like, that's insane. And that's all because pilots predominantly
• 33:43
  men, they get paid more air hostesses, or alpha staff, you know, and they're there, but they
• 33:50
  get paid less. But it's like, well, that's, there's an issue there in itself. Do you know what I mean?
• 33:55
  That's like, oh, I don't know. It's yeah. And then next to one's gap in Victoria's Secret,
• 34:01
  so they're a really big UK retailer. They again, yeah, they've got a really, really bad
• 34:06
  gender pay gap as well. And that's again, people in head office, usually male, people in the stores.
• 34:11
  They've got a retail, people in the stores. Yeah. Victoria's Secret has been run by men for
• 34:17
  years. That's the whole, that's the whole, like, the whole issue is that men sitting in a
• 34:21
  border and being like, this is what society wants to see on a runway. They nearly got cancelled,
• 34:27
  because you know, when there was the kind of a backlash movie. So it's like sort of that. It's
• 34:31
  like the all men on their page. And if you think about those runway shows that we used to watch
• 34:36
  when we were teenagers being like, oh my goodness, this is what women should look like. And if you
• 34:40
  look at the advertising now, they've completely been like, oh, put that aside. Forget we ever did
• 34:45
  that. Now they're like, body diversity, racial diversity. I'm like, too little too late. Too
• 34:50
  little too late. Victoria's Secret. Like, lead the way. Don't react. You know? It's like, you're
• 34:56
  only doing this because of the pressure that you had, not because you thought it was the right
• 35:00
  thing to do. Honestly, if there's one thing, I mean, there's many things I would like to extract
• 35:04
  from society. But if there's one thing that I would love to eliminate from all consciousness and
• 35:08
  all women everywhere is the idea of weight. Like, I hate. And I honestly, I'm actively like, no,
• 35:15
  I noticed myself thinking things about my body. And then I'm like, no, and I'm really try to go
• 35:19
  against it. It is so hard. Like the amount of messaging that you get directly in subliminary
• 35:25
  around like what we should look like. And the fact that that came from like random white men in
• 35:29
  a board room makes you mad at it. And honestly, it makes me just want to eat millions of muffins
• 35:33
  and like, they like go again. Go tell them. Anyway, let's wrap this up. I'm sorry. It was so long.
• 35:42
  Oh, thanks for coming. Thanks guys. This was fun. I'll see you next week.
• 35:47
  You could have flying from Amsterdam. Yeah. You're great. Thank you. Also, anyone listening please
• 35:52
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• 36:01
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• 36:07
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• 36:40
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