Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / NFL heiress glass purse attack on stranger and New Year’s Eve teen murder rampage

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NFL heiress glass purse attack on stranger and New Year’s Eve teen murder rampage · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: one thirty two. WHOA what are you doing? Can you
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: imagine the scene when I look at these photos? After
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  Speaker 1: a an allegedly drunken night out at one of New
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  Speaker 1: York City's finest restaurant and bars an heiress, an actual heiress,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: yes they still exist, to an NFL empire, apparently gets
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  Speaker 1: into a drunken brawl. You remember Cinderella had the glass slipper, Well,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: this one has a glass clutch. It's it's like a
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  Speaker 1: little those little opera pocketbooks, the little fancy pocketboo. Look
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  Speaker 1: you take with you two parties and events. She has
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  Speaker 1: been made of glass. I've actually managed to find a
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  Speaker 1: picture of her at another event holding the glass clutch
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  Speaker 1: and allegedly, amidst a stream of anti Semitic slurs, she
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  Speaker 1: cracks a guy over the head with a glass clutch.
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  Speaker 1: What the hey, there's photos of the alleged victim with
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  Speaker 1: blood streaming down his face, and then she high tells it.
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  Speaker 1: You can't see anything from her but elbows and tailhole.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: That's right gone. I Nancy Grace and this is Crime Stories.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. You know it's not
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  Speaker 1: about the whop on the head. True, it was with
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  Speaker 1: a glass object, although it be a fancy three D pocketbook. Um,
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  Speaker 1: it's not about that. It's about poor man and rich
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  Speaker 1: man justice. That's what it's about. Well does she get
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  Speaker 1: away with cracking somebody on the head, blood streaming down
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  Speaker 1: their head, anti Jewish slurs, hate talk, and then elbows
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  Speaker 1: and tailhole down the street. What's going to happen? Thank
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  Speaker 1: you for being with us, Joining me out of New
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  Speaker 1: York veteran psychologist Karen Stark. Also with me forensics expert
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, professor at Jacksonville State University, and reporting
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: today Bobby Maxwell, Crime Stories investigative reporter, and of course
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  Speaker 1: with me, Alan Duke and Jackie Howard here in the studio.
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  Speaker 1: First to you, Bobby Max. Will's start at the beginning,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: leave no detail out, tell me the whole thing. I've
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  Speaker 1: got to hear the whole thing. Well, Nancy, Jacqueline Kent Cook,
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  Speaker 1: as you mentioned, the socialite, the football heiress, nine years
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  Speaker 1: old old, was with her boyfriend. Hold on, let me
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: dissect every sentence, every word the football heiress. Now, isn't
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: it true that her grandfather was an owner of the
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Washington Redskins. Is that correct? Actually, she's the daughter late
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Jack kn't cook. Her dad had ownership steaks in the
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  Speaker 1: Washington Redskins, the l A Lakers, and the l A Kings,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: not just the Redskins, but the Lakers and the King's. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about a lot of money. Okay, all right,
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  Speaker 1: go ahead, let's just start with that. Now, she's with
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  Speaker 1: her boyfriend, right, is that what you said. Yes, she's
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  Speaker 1: with her boyfriend and a very nice Upper east Side
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  Speaker 1: Italian restaurant in New York City. Uh caravaggio. Okaya, hold on, sorry,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: sorry about this, Bobby Karen Stark. You and I know
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  Speaker 1: what the Upper east Side means. Okay, the Upper west Side,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: like looking right on the west upper West you're looking
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  Speaker 1: down directly on Central Park, and those apartments go for
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  Speaker 1: you know, ten fifteen, twenty million dollars for a two
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  Speaker 1: or three bedroom apartment in New York you buy your
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: apartment or rent. Now on the Upper east Side, which
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  Speaker 1: is really an enclave of the wealthy. You know, um,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: my place was slumming it totally, and but the Upper
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: east Side that ain't shabby. Here and start what about
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: this restaurant. I believe I know exactly which one it is.
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  Speaker 1: It's right near Fifth Avenue, and um, it's well that
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  Speaker 1: says it all right there on the avenue, Fifth Avenue.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: There's a song about it the Easter parade. Remember Fifth
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  Speaker 1: Avenue is like the height of luxury. Okay, go ahead.
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  Speaker 1: And it's a wonderful Italian restaurant. Actually we were supposed
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  Speaker 1: to be there New Year's Eve, and um, it just
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: is a place where everyone is seen and there to
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  Speaker 1: be seen. In addition to the terrific food. Is it
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  Speaker 1: like Elaine? Well not quite, but yes, because it's upscale
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  Speaker 1: restaurant and people know about it and the food. Could
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  Speaker 1: just tell me how much is a plate aposta at
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  Speaker 1: this place? At least? Nancy, you know you can get
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: a box of spaghetti for nine nine cents? Did you
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  Speaker 1: know that? I'm just putting it out there. Okay, but
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  Speaker 1: not at Carava, not at Carvoggio. You sound so valley girl,
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  Speaker 1: like all up in your fancy kneedsa Okay back to
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  Speaker 1: Bobby Maxwell, I've set the scene. I'm at Carvaggio. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: go ahead. And they finished their dinner, Jacqueline and her
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: boyfriend and I'd first like to know what they had,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: but I know that that's getting crazy. But when I
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  Speaker 1: was prosecuting cases, I would absolutely get the receipt because
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  Speaker 1: I want to know and I want to tell that
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  Speaker 1: jury what they had for their appetizer, How many drinks,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: which is very important in this case, that they had,
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  Speaker 1: What was their entree? Did they share a dessert? Did
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: they have after dinner coffee, you know, spiked with booze.
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  Speaker 1: I need to hear it the whole thing. I want
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: to know if their dinner was. I want to know.
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  Speaker 1: But anyway, go ahead, I'll get off the food for
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: a moment. Go ahead. I guess you can tell. I'm
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: back on weight watchers. Go ahead, all I want to
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: think about us what other people are eating? Go ahead, Bobby.
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  Speaker 1: They first needed to the coach check Nancy, where they
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: were in line behind a family and um, maybe taking
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: a little bit too long for her good, and allegedly
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: said to the seventy seven year old woman who was
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  Speaker 1: getting her coat, hurry up to Okay, what what white? White? Wait?
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I don't take very kindly to that.
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  Speaker 1: My my paternal my dad's grandmother, Anna Pearl Judah, I'm
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  Speaker 1: not taking very kindly to this at all. What now
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  Speaker 1: the coach? Everybody's getting their coat and what happened? They
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: were apparently taking too long for Jacqueline's mind, and she
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  Speaker 1: proceeded to say to the seventy seven year old woman,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: hurry up, jew and when another let that sink in
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: for just one moment. You know, Karen Stark specifically want
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: you to weigh in on that. It's just it. Well,
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  Speaker 1: of course I'm Jewish, so it's very painful. But any
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  Speaker 1: kind of hate crime, Nancy, is just tying to heinous.
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  Speaker 1: It's just I can't believe that somebody in this day
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  Speaker 1: and age, even though she may be thinking it, would
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  Speaker 1: actually come out and say something like that, and it
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  Speaker 1: didn't stop and to a senior to a senior lady
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  Speaker 1: who's standing there trying to get her little coat to
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  Speaker 1: get outside. If someone had said something like that to
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  Speaker 1: my mother, I am telling you, Karen start, they would
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  Speaker 1: have got a knuckle sandwich. No mayo, I'm not kidding
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: to me, Nancy. When people who when they drink that much,
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  Speaker 1: you know, so their inhibitions are loosened, and this alcohol
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  Speaker 1: is not a defense. Voluntary be cans. How many times
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: if I screamed that at you over the last since
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  Speaker 1: nineteen whenever, nineties seven when we started courting, and forever.
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  Speaker 1: But I'm not saying it is a defense. All I'm
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  Speaker 1: saying is that what's really there, it's like mel Gibson, right,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: it comes out and it's vicious. Speaking of mel Gibson,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: take a listen to this, you know. But they're too
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  Speaker 1: big and then okay, stupid like a Vegas Vegas, and
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: you go around stashing around in your tight clothes and stuff.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: I won't stand for that anymore. I don't. I don't
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  Speaker 1: want around it. I don't want to be there. I
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: don't work around in tight clothes. I say, you look
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  Speaker 1: like and if you get raped by a pack of
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  Speaker 1: your fault, all right, because you provoked it. You are
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  Speaker 1: provocatively dressed all the time with your fake boots. You
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  Speaker 1: feel you have to show up in tight out of
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  Speaker 1: it and tight pants behind. And that gray thing today
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  Speaker 1: was enough. I'm telling you. I'm just telling you the truth.
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  Speaker 1: I don't like it. I don't want that woman. I
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: don't want to mel Gibson. And back to Manhattan and
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  Speaker 1: they the expensive Italian restaurant. They were out, they were
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  Speaker 1: at then what happens to Bobby Maximim, Well, one of
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: the members of the party, UM then said what did
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  Speaker 1: you say? And Jacqueline Kent Cook responded, I said, hurry
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  Speaker 1: up to you, We've got places to go, and um
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the woman responded to her, we've all got played says
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  Speaker 1: to go, and they had a few choice words. Well
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  Speaker 1: that's interesting right there, Bobby Maxwell that she didn't respond
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  Speaker 1: with a response slur, you know, like you know, she
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  Speaker 1: just the the elderly lady just said, well, we all
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  Speaker 1: have places to go, and totally ignored the fact that
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: this young lady, excuse me, this young woman, UM had
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: tried to hurl a Jewish slur. I mean, Joe's goot, Morgan.
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  Speaker 1: I know you're a forensics expert, but I believe you
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  Speaker 1: and I are very familiar with the fact that the Israelites,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: he Brews, Jews have been mistreated. Says I can remember
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: all the way back to Moses, but demanding let my
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: people go. Remember it goes all the way back that
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: they have been tortured and mistreated, way back way back. Nancy,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know quote my grandmother, my grandmother always said, uh,
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  Speaker 1: you must be kind to the Jewish people because they
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  Speaker 1: are the children of God. Now, whether or not, you know, uh,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: you lean in a religious way or not, I've always
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  Speaker 1: adhered to that. Uh. And plus it's just a fact
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  Speaker 1: that you just want to be kind uh kind to people, uh,
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  Speaker 1: simply out of for humanity's sake. It's a small planet.
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  Speaker 1: We have to get along. Let me tell you something,
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  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott mortgage. What's that? It goes down from there?
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, Bobby Maxwell. So the the old ladies getting
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  Speaker 1: her coat, I mean, how cold is it, you know,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: twenty degree eighteen degrees she's getting her coat there at
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: the hat check. And then what happens? And then that
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: confrontation happened and a few words were said. It moves
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: outside where the with an old lady? She didn't go out,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: her father or her her son brother um went outside. Well,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: thank goodness, her son stood up for his mom. All right.
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  Speaker 1: So now it's at all the street. Okay, here, all
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  Speaker 1: these rich people out fighting in the streets. Okay, a parent,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Go ahead. I can't just see the fur flying right now.
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  Speaker 1: Well he was very calm about well as calm as
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: calm could be in that kind of situation, because he
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: said why would you say that to my family? Again,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: he wasn't and he wasn't mentioning any slurs or anything
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: at the time. He just asked why she would do
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: that to a seventy seven year old woman. And at
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: that point is when the actual crime was committed, because
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: jack one Kent Cook smashed her designer purse or glass
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: designer purse into habercorn the victim's head. M Okay, wait,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: just so happened? Believe it or not? Have the video listen.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm tous him on five? Then right, come here, stop,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: come here, stop you doing kidding me? What are you doing?
• 13:21
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• 13:42
  Speaker 1: in between a rich, drunk lady and her three hundred
• 13:45
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  Speaker 1: on Sirius x two, after a an allegedly drunken night
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: out at one of New York City's finest restaurant and bars,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: an heiress to an NFL empire, apparently gets into a
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: drunken brawl. Allegedly, I missed a stream of anti Semitic slurs.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: What happened then, Bobby Maxwell? I mean, I just heard
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of cursing in bleeps, and I see her,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the heiress, the NFL heiress, getting up off the ground
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: and running and screaming something about self defense as the
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: guy is, you know, now sitting on the sidewalk with
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: blood gushing from his head. Yeah, you know, according to
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: the video, which was taken by the victim's daughter, And
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: it's a good thing there was, because it's clear that
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: she's trying to pull Um the victim down on her
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and her boyfriend's then yelling, you know, things like it
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: was his fault that she fell and hit her. Look
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: like she was hit her head against the car um.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: So they were trying to turn this whole situation around
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: on the Habercorn family. Well, it didn't help any that
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: the woman uh states that she wasn't even out on
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: New Year's Eve, that she had a splint on her feet,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: the splint on her finger was the result of slamming
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: her hand in a cab door. Now that's quite the
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: coinkie dink that she's on this video on New Year's even.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I mean even I a thousand miles awake until it's her,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: and she also happens to have her finger in a splint. Um.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: You know what's interesting, Joseph Scott Morgan about this is
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: that she's obviously a millionaire, and I'm wondering if she's
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: going to skate off scott free for this. But in
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: your line of work, to slam somebody over the head
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: with glass, you can kill someone that way, Yeah, yeah
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: you can. Uh. And in addition to that, uh, let's
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: just looking at the photos from this is it is
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: rather horrific. This uh, this pocket book that you had mentioned.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I'd been looking at it last night. It's got very
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: very uh tight angles on the edges, and uh, she
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: would have generated what's referred to as blunt force trauma.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: And if this thing is in fact made out of glass,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: which it looks to be if it shattered, you can
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: get a little satellite injuries as well. And this guy's
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: got quite a bit of blood. Uh that's coming off
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: of the crown of his head. So she split his
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: head open pretty well. I'd be interested in how many
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: stitches he had. Uh. One more thing. Um, you know,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: money obviously, uh can't buy good manners, that's for sure.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: You're still the banner of my crime online article money
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: can't buy class Truer words were never spoken. Now let's
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: move forward. Bobby Maxwell was telling us, and immediately the
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: finger pointing starts, and she, the NFL heiress, begins to
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: blame the alleged victim in this case, Karen Stark, why
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: is that? And and claiming she wasn't there. She's on video, Karen,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: she's being defensive, Nancy. You know, she's she's saying I
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: wasn't there, And she's trying to deny that it really happened,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: or that she objectified someone and used anti Semitic slurs. Yeah,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: she's just defending into the accusation. But and even though
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: it's on even though it's on video, and that's that's
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: called denial. Remember, she was of course released on her
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: own recognizant on Thursday, she's do you back in court
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: with an order of protection in place requiring her to
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: stay away from her alleged victim. Now again, this is
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: the daughter of Jack Kent Cook, who had ownership in
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: the Washington Redskins, the l A Lakers, and the l. A.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: King's I'm looking at her now as she's been described
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: as emotionless in Manhattan criminal Court in the last hours
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: after having been arrested for allegedly assaulting this lawyer. Now,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: she was not, of course, charged with hate talk on
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: his seventy seven year old mother, but she stands accused
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: of attacking Matthew Habercorn outside a Manhattan restaurant. Caravaggio, the
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: lawyer who us with his family in Redwood City, claims
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: all the troubles started when his mother was getting her
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: coat after their meal. Um, it went on and on,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: and he confronted her about what she had said to
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: his mom outside the restaurant, and that is when she
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: allegedly bashes him in the head with a mirrored Lulu
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Guinness clutch. Okay, now this is all according to the
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: n y p D. Boy, what a mouthful she gave him.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: You called me and effing you called me an effing
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: b you call me a c. Cook can be heard
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: shouting all this in the video. Let's talk about her
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: in court. Okay, this is after all the blood, after
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: all the arrest. She appears in court. What happened in
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: court to Bobby Maxwell, Crime Stories investigative reporter, what happened, Well,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: she was her, as you said, very calm about it
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: and and claimed that he was the one that went
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: to her. He was started the altercation. She looks extremely emotionless.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: What does that mean? Care and start your the shrink. Well,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: that kind of a flat affect means that she's whatever
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: is going on with her. I'm imagining that this is
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: how she comes across that. You know, she internalizes it.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's why if she drinks too much, it all
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: comes out. So she's keeping her face very neutral and
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: not allowing anyone to know that she has any kind
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: of an emotional response to this. At the time of
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: her father's death, she was left with a five million
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: dollar trust. At age twenty one, payments go went to
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars at thirty five. She receives annual
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: sums of eight per cent of the trust currently valued
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: at over six million dollars. Well, of course they're all
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: seeing each other over the money. But in court, uh,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: she did not, she denied, apparently um and told police
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: this was not her fault. When she was stopped by
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: the police after leaving a diner without paying her bill once,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: according to Boston dot Com, she started her car despite
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: cops yelling at her not to turn on the vehicle
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: prior to getting in the car because she couldn't find
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: a taxi cook quote stepped into the street, lifted her skirt,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: and exposed her rear into the cops. Um. When being
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: booked on that incident, she asked everyone do they know
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: where her father was and threatened to have their badge
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: of strips. Studying one billion dollars goes a long way.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Joe Scott, how many times have
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: I heard I'll have your badge for this, Joe Scott?
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: That never it typically never works. Yeah, yeah, you you
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: you know, people say you don't know who I know. Uh, well,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: you know, for the average police officers, the average police
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: officers bringing home you know, maybe uh forty five dollars
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: per year, I can tell you, uh, they probably don't
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: know who she knows. But one thing that they do
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: know is that they know a jerk when they come
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: across one. Because and this is this is repeated over
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and over and over again. This goes to a bigger
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: issue in our society, Nancy. You know, you look at
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: everything that's going on in entertainment and media and all
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: these other places where people think that they can just
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: because they have power and they have money, they can
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: just run over anybody that they want to. Sometimes the
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: chickens come home to roost, and in this in this case,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I hope that they make an example out of her. Well,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: is everybody sitting down for this one? You might need
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: to lay down because now the millionaire heiress Jacqueline Kent
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Cook is cross suing. She's actually suing the alleged victim,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: and in court held up her swollen right ring finger,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: as her lawyer said the digit was broken in the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: quote scuffle. She has actually filed a cross complaint against
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: the man she allegedly bashed in the head with a
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: three dollar glass clutch um. The lawyer also claimed she
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: did not make an anti Semitic remark and was only
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: defending herself when Habricorn pursued her outside. Okay, Now, who
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: are you going to believe in court? As I always
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: tell juries, Joe Scott Morgan, you are the sole judge
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: of credibility, not me, not the judge, not the defense. You, you,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the jury, have to decide who's telling the truth here?
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Are you gonna believe her who, according to Boston dot Com,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: lifted her skirt and shot a moon at the cops
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: and threatened to take their badges, Or a seventy seven
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: year old lady trying to get her hat and coat
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: at the check back coach check You know it's it's
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: going to clearly be he says, She say, but only
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: one person ended up bloody and bashed in the head.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you can't argue about that. No, no, you can't.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, when this thing
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: is finally litigated, if it goes into a civil civil venue,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: which you know, I don't know how far the d
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: A will take this from a criminal perspective, but from
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: a civil venue, it all comes you know, who who's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: got the bigger who's got the largest purse here no
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: pun intended, Who's got the most money? Who can you
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: know kind of make this and it's interesting that she
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: would counter through these people as a result of this,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: her poor little finger got broken, will prove that it
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: got broken, and they'll parade experts up there and say that,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: oh no, it was in fact broken, and it's it's
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: you know, uh, it's ridiculous. Uh. To this point, what
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: you have here is just at the end of the day,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: you have somebody it has no manners, does not respect
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: other people, and has probably always gotten her word. Thomas said.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: She also went to confront Cook and the socialite told her,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: why don't you use your money to get a nose job? Okay,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Karen Stark. Yet another attack, a verbal attack, not and
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: and again there's anti Semitism involved in that slur. And
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: from what I was reading that, her boyfriend also said
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: to the daughters that were there of this gentleman, happy
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: but mitzvah okay out of nowhere. You know, I don't
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: get the hatred. But what I'm concerned I can't. I
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: can't cure that. But in court, I know that prosecutors
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: can send this woman to jail. I want to pause
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: and thank our partners right now, in addition to you
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: guys joining us across the air waves and awesome guests
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: joining me today legal Zoom. What will your story be
• 27:05
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• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Where life meets legal legal Zoom. Thank you. Just before midnight,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: neighbors down the street heard gun shots. I heard that
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: side before, you know, a cop down here, cot down there,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: lined up around the street. He spoke, you know, always smiling,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: you know, not a biling kid or anything like that.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I woke up and I thought it was fireworks. Been
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: thinking about it. I don't think our fireworks up me up.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I think it was gun shots that woke me up.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: A New Year's ad teen murder rampage? What what? Okay?
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: You know, when I was still a teen, we lived
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: out in the middle of nowhere, and for our excitements,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: as there was nowhere to go and nothing to do,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: we would go on the front porch and beat pots
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: and pans to beat away the old year and throw
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: pennies now to welcome the new year. And my poor
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: children are now being subjected to the same ritual you're
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: see because you know, I couldn't drive at fourteen fifteen,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: I had nowhere to go. Okay. My parents didn't drink,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: so there was although my father was not afraid of
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: a cocktail. Don't tell my mom, but I mean they
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: would stay in with us. There wasn't nowhere to go
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: and nothing to do, so we had to make our
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: own excitement. Okay, we only got one shadow and there
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: was no New Year's Eve ball dropping excitement going on.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: But how did this suddenly turn into New Year's Eve
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: teen murder rampage? I'm focusing right now along my all
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: star panel on two teens, one that kills and murders
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: his family and the other that murders her boyfriend and
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: robs him. What I mean? Larry Mayher is joining me
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories contributing reporter about a New Year's Eve teen
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: murder mascert. Let's let's start with the young man, a
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: teen boy that has referred to as quote a nice
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: kid by everybody that knows him, that wipes out his
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: family on New Year's Eve? What happened? Larry? According to
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: police in Long Branch, New Jersey, the sixteen year old
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: took a semi automatic assault style rifle and open fire
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: inside their house. And stop stop stop right there. Sorry. Sorry, Now,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Alan can tell you it's very hard for me to
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: let a man specifically get a whole sentence in. But
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, did you just say a sixteen year
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: old has an assault rifle? How did that happen? Let's
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: just start with that, Okay, how did he get an
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: assault rifle? Police say, he had access to it because
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: it was the legal weapon of someone in his family.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Go ahead in the home, okay. According to police, he
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: used the assault rifle to kill his father, his mother,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: his sister, and a family friend. To other members of
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: the family, and a third person who was also a
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: family friend, managed to get out of the house while
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: the shooting was underway. This all happened just minutes before
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: midnight on the night of New Year's Eve. I just
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: don't understand it. I don't understand it. So that's a total.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: We'll see the parents, the friend, two other members of
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the family. How many people in all did he murder?
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Four people were killed, three people escaped. Good crazy? This
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: teen boy guns down his family just moments before the
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: ball drops before midnight. Is struck to Ashley Willcott, lawyer
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: and child advocate. He's sixteen years old. But murder much
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: less mass murder which equals more than one body, I
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: mean two bodies, and you're into statutory mass murder. That
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: is one of the seven deadlies, or as we call them,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: the designated felonies by which you are almost automatically bound
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: over to be treated as an adult. Let me see
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: if I can remember them there's murder, rape, aggravated assault,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: armed robbery, um arson, I'm missing too. Let's see here,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: would it be child moless station? I'm missing one. What
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: could it be? What? Ashley? I couldn't remember if manslaughter
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: was one of that later, I'm missing one of the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: seven designated seven deadlies. Anyway, I know this is one
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: of them. Now, how does it work, Ashley? When eighteen
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: boy commits one of the designated felonies under which you
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: get tried as an adult, it's called a bind over process,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that's right. So um, the prosecutor can determine whether or
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: not they want to ask that the child be treated
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: as an adult in the adult criminal system or be
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: allowed to be charged as a juvenile in the juvenile
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: court UH system for delinquent acts, and honestly, with murder charges,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I have never seen a child not treated as an
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: adult in the criminal system, even if the child has
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: special needs. Frequently, most likely they are going to charge
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: that child as an adult. It's murder. In this case,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: there are extenuating circumstances that that will be to the
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: boy's benefits. His name is Scott Kellogi and he's referred
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: to by everyone that knew him prior to this as
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: a quote nice kid. He is autistic, is he not?
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Ja Leis Mitchell. Yes, he had learning disabilities and for
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: a Kim Nancy, he was home schooled. So here you
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: have a sixteen year old with learning disabilities who may
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: be struggling. Apparently he was teethed at school translate bullied
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: at school. And he has an older sister who was
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: absolutely stunning and you can just tell she's very popular
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: just by looking at her. She looks like something out
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: of a you know, a cheerleading movie. And um, so
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: he's at home with his mother, who is his mother
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: and his teacher in a sense because he was being
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: home school for a time, and you know, sixteen is
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: a very turbulent time, the hormones, the sense of rebellion,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: and then you add in a semi automatic assault rifle,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: a line around the house. It's a prescription for disaster.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happens. Let me go to Dr
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Patricia Sauner, psychologist. I would need to know, I guess
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: his level of functioning. I mean, I've seen a photo
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: of him in a graduation cap and gown. I would
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: need to know what level where he was under the
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: spectrum the umbrella of autism. Was it a mild case
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: of Aspergers or was it profoundily autistic? What difference would
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: that meg? Dr Patricia Saunders such a great point. There's
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: a world of difference between mild Aspergers and fully autistic
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: um adolescent. The fully autistic adolescent is pretty much out
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: of touch with reality and only response to their inner
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: stimuli and trying to suppress their feelings of anxiety and anger. UH.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: High functioning Aspergers is often kids who do reasonably well
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: in school. They have a lot of problems socially. They
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: tend not to have friends, who tend to be isolated
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: because they don't have the social skills and they can't
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: recuse some other people. What they both have in come
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: and is problems with impulse. And so you take the
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: brew that James described that lessons before and you've got
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: a potential for dynamite. Just wonder how it will factor in.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, lawyer and child advocate and founder of child
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: crime watch dot com on Facebook. Ashley, how will this
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: factor into the decision as to whether this teen boy
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: is going to be treated as an adult? Now, remember
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: if he's treated as an adult, he sentenced as an adult,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: but he has kept in a juvenile facility until he's
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: twenty one. That's right. So keep in mind that the
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: whole goal and aim of juvenile court dealing with children
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: as rehabilitation. So it's not punitive in nature. It's not
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: intended to be punitive in nature and penalize the child
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: for committing a crime. Instead, it is meant to be
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: real abilitative. And so I think one of the important
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: factors is in New Jersey, what does it mean in
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: terms of what services are available to help treat this
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: child with his specific special needs and perhaps rehabilitate. Having
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: said that, he'll remain in jail. And so it does
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: depend what is the adult system offer versus the juvenile
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: system offer in that particular state. But Vincent Hill, private investigator,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I mean to have the intent to go get a
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Sydney automatic assault rifle pointed, mow down your family, wound others.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: That is a specific intent, Vincent. Yeah, Nancy is very specific.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: And we're talking four victims and possibly two others that
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: escape the residents. So you may be able to argue
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: one shot to one family member was impulsive, but at
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: some point I'm sure prosecutors are going to argue that
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: he had every opportunity to stop what he was doing
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: because he killed four of his family, well, three family
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: members and a close friend to the family. So the
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: intent was there to do exactly what he did, and
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: it was very tragic, especially the way it ended the
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: year for the family. Well, this is what we know.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: The very latest is that the judge has ordered the
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Cologi case uh in the Long Beach shootings to remain close.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: That's in Mommouth County, New Jersey. This is what we
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: know right now regarding a teen that goes on a
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: New Year's Eve murder rampage and wipes out his family.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: But to his defense, if you look at what his
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: brother writes, his own brother, his heartbroken brother of this
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: New Jersey team who allegedly shoots and kills his parents, sister,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: and family friend and New Year's even massacre, wrote a
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: heart breaking social media message to honor them. Collogi's little brother,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Scott has been accused of opening fire on his family
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: just before the New Year was ushered in. The brother
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: says quote, give the ones you love an extra kiss
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: or tell them I love you. Oh oh man, I'm
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: moving now. From that to our next New Year's Eve
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: teen murder massacre and the case of a girl, Yvaughne Ramirez,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: who murders and robs her boyfriend just before the ball drops.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Larry May Her Crime Stories investigative reporter, What happened? This
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: is also a tangled case in that Van Raquel Ramirez
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: has told two vastly different stories about what happened to
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend, Josh McKinney. We know that it took place
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: in a place called Bayport, Texas, which is part of
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: the Port of Houston, is an industrial area. Took place
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: on a street at about four thirty in the morning.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: A witness reported seeing McKitty, the boyfriend, holding Ramirez, the girlfriend,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: in a headlock, with a gun pointed at her head,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: and then a few minutes later hearing gun shots and
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: McKinney was killed by the gunshots. Ramirez told police initially
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: that he dropped his gun, it went off and shot him.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Then she said they were in a struggle and he
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: had the gun pointed at her. She managed to take
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: a different gun away from him and shoot him with
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: it in self defense. This is all compounded by what problem,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: what's the other story? Other story? Is this was a
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: robbery attempt that Ramirez had told McKinny she had stolen
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: his gun collection and wanted two thousand dollars to get
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: it back. And then the altered Paian erupted on the
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: street and he ended up dead. Um. The two very
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: different stories make it a little difficult for investigators to
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: sort out what happened. They have one. I winness, excuse me,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: excuse me. I'm just staring right now at the photo
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: of the defendant, this teen girl with the two tongue piercings. Um,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: it's strategically located across the tattoos on her chest, which
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: end in a rose between her breasts. Okay, Um, not judging,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: not judging. It's gonna take all I can do, Ashley Willcott.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: I don't even argue with the twins when they do
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: this or that wrong. I'm saving that for um smoking drugs,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: alcohol and tattoos. I'm saving all my fighting for that. Okay, Ashley.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Do you see these photos of the of the alleged killer,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: which is beautiful? Get her gorgeous. She's beautiful, beautiful, she
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: looks like a model. Want to hang out with when
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: they're older? Right? Oh? No, not exactly, but I will
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: say that she's physically beautiful, which apparently is very deceiving. Now,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Larry Mayheer has told us there's two sides to this,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Jane Lls Mitchell, what's the other side? Well, I think
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: this is a case of two young people. First of all,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: there were drugs involved. She told investigators that they were
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: getting high together. It's four thirty in the morning, so
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: nobody should be out or as somebody said, what happens
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: after midnight on the street is never good. And wait
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: a minute, wait a minute, you've totally you've totally twisted
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: what I told Jerrys. You stole that from me. Jane Lliz,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I'm calling you out. That's felony theft, that's grand larceny.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: What I would tell juries is nothing good happens after midnight,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: and you've totally bastardized it. I don't know what you
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: just said, but can you at least go back to
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: the pure But nothing good happens after midnight? Did you
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: say this was at four thirty in the morning. Yes, uh,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: And there was a struggle on the street involving guns.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: So you have a young woman who is obviously up
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: to no good. Either way her scheme is somehow, um,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: not just getting together with a young man to have
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: a good time. There's a plot there and um, apparently
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: she was demanding two thousand dollars from this young man
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: to get if he wanted to get his guns back.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: And so that's when the encounter turned very violent and
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: he had put her. He put her in the Headlah
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: blah blah, that's what she's saying. Dr Patricia Saunders. Have
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: you ever noticed that you can have a perfectly nice
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: person and then they get tangled up with the wrong
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: man or woman and everything goes sideways. I mean, this
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: kid that was killed, this boy um had or do
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: you plan to join the Marines after graduating from college? Uh?
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Somebody says, quote, he's such a sweet guy and so
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: well mannered, always saying thank you, m please. He was
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: such a nice boy. Now that's one quote about him.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to reconcile that with some photos he's posted
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: online and this girl that he took up with. What
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: do you think, pat Saunders? Can it be you're this
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: great person and then you get poisoned by somebody else? Oh,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: he had to have been complicit in some way. One
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: story that's out there is that they were planning some
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: kind of robbery. So this is really a mess in
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: terms of what really happened. What you said earlier can
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: be especially for young people and adolescents that they get
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: mixed up with the wrong people. I'm no fan of
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: tattoos and piercings myself, Nancy. Wait wait, whoa wait wait,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: wait whoa right there, Dr Patricia Saunders, correct me if
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong. But didn't I run into you on the
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: East Side one time and you're with your husband and
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: you had a bunch of dogs you were walking, Jane,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: You'll love to hear that. And wasn't your husband very
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: heavily tattooed? I have a tattoo, but it's not okay,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: So back to your husband, is it wasn't your husband
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: very heavily tattooed? From military? Yes? Okay? So now what
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: were you saying about not being a fan of tattoos? Well, blessed.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I will never forget. I will never forget. I'll never
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: forget what I did dancing with the Stars. And you
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: guys all know my my executive producer and my bestie
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: hunt Dean from h Chillen went out to Dancing with
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: the Stars that we were doing our evening show from
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: out there, and everybody on the cast of Dancing with
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: the Stars had a tattoo. One day he comes and
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: he's got a tattoo. I said, Dean, have you lost
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: your mind? And I forgot what. I just could not said,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: what does that even say? And as I remember some
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: mishmash of like his initials and his wife's initials, I
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: don't even know what it was or cross, I don't
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: know what it was. Well, he didn't even tell his wife. Okay,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: so he goes flies home. I was out there and
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: I had my husband and my children with me, and
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: so he would fly home and then he would come back,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: you know, after the weekend. He came back. Of course
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: his wife was furious. So what did he do? He
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: ran out and got another tattoo about like forgiveness and
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: all that quote out of the Bible of some obscure
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: quite like you have totally. Yeah, he totally had lost
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: his mind. And from now and he wears long sleeves.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, so there you go, and Dr Pat Saunders
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: denying her love for tattoos. Pat, can I do ask
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: you if you dare tell me what what is your tattoo?
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I want to know. Is it like a rose at
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: the at your your booty? Crack? No, and it would
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: never do that. It's a pegasus on my arm, a
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: flying horse. Okay, that's so much classier. Okay, thank you
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: for letting me have all my fun as we're talking
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: about the massacre. Bottom line, what's going to happen with
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: this girl, Larry Mayheer? What what's the standing right now?
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: What is she charged with? Is she charged? What's happening?
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: She is charged with murder. She is being held uh
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: in lieu of fifty thou dollars bail. She's at last
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: report in the hospital because during this altercation she was
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: also shot um and so she has been treated for
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: a gunshot wound and is hospitalized at a Houston Harris
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: County jail. And Um. Unlike the shooter at in New Jersey,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: she's an adult. She's nineteen. The victim was also nineteen.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: I can just only imagine what the victim's parents are
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: going through right now. They probably had no idea what
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: he was out doing at that time. And now, I mean,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know what his personality was. I just know
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: he was a young boy Joshua McKinney with plans to
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: head into the Marines after college, and now he's dead
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: over what. Larry may Her, Jane Villez Mitchell of Jane
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Unchained dot com. Dr Patricia Saunders, psychologist, joining me from Manhattan.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: Vincent hill Renow, I'm private an investigator. Ashley Wilcot, founder
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: of child Crime watch dot com on Facebook, Alan and Jackie,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us as we
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: watch these cases unfold. Nancy Grace crimed story signing off,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: good Bye friend,