Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Did Missouri governor blackmail mistress? Mystery child found dead in Cleveland

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Did Missouri governor blackmail mistress? Mystery child found dead in Cleveland · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: to Nancy's beats dot com. Today Crime Stories with Nancy
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Speaker 1: Grace on Serious x M Triumph Channel one thirty two.
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Speaker 1: Wait just a minute. A former Navy seal, a Rhodes scholar,
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Speaker 1: the founder of a veteran's charity, a quote good husband
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Speaker 1: and father, and by all accounts you know, even my
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Speaker 1: partner in Crime. Alan Duke says he's a darn good
1:34
Speaker 1: looking guy. Now I don't find him good looking, but
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Speaker 1: that's just me because I know the rest of the story.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
1:44
Speaker 1: being with us. I'm talking about a governor, a governor
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Speaker 1: of Missouri who is admitting now to a sex affair
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Speaker 1: but denying blackmail. You know what if a merry guy
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Speaker 1: is running around having sex, uh, I don't like it,
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Speaker 1: but my ears don't perk up. Blackmail, that's a whole
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Speaker 1: another can of worms. I'm talking about Governor Eric Gryighton,
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Speaker 1: who sought Missouri's highest office. His resume seemed almost too
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Speaker 1: good to be true. But it's true, as I said,
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Speaker 1: Former Navy Seal Rhodes, scholar, founder of a veteran's charity,
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Speaker 1: Faithful husband and father? What went wrong? Joining me right now?
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Speaker 1: Dr Tiffany Sanders, Chicago psychologist, Nema had Dotti l a
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Speaker 1: criminal defense lawyer and former prosecutor. Aren't Harris Crime Stories
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Alan Duke and Jackie Howard to break it
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Speaker 1: down and put it back together again, Aren't Harris? Can
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Speaker 1: we just start at beginning? How does blackmail get into
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Speaker 1: the same sentence with Navy seal Rhodes scholar, father and husband.
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Speaker 1: How does blackmail inject itself in there? Let's find us
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Speaker 1: back just a second as see to the alleged uh incident.
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Speaker 1: This is someone who he met. It was his hair dresser.
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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, which incident, the blackmail or the sex.
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Speaker 1: This is the alleged mistress who has said on a
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Speaker 1: tape that was given to a TV station by her
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Speaker 1: very angry ex husband who has been stalking the Navy
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Speaker 1: seal in tweets for quite a while. She says that
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Speaker 1: he tied her up. Well, he taped her hands two
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Speaker 1: rings in the basement. He wanted her to come downstairs
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Speaker 1: so we could quote make her feel good and also
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Speaker 1: show her how to do a proper pull up. Okay,
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Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. Jackie
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Speaker 1: here in the studio is just laughing. Okay, can we
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Speaker 1: all get real just for a moment. Okay, First of all,
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Speaker 1: why is the hair addresser at his house? Number one?
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Speaker 1: Number two? If I got to a guy's house and
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Speaker 1: he tells me he wants me to go in the
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Speaker 1: basement to make me feel good and learn to do
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Speaker 1: a proper chin up or pull up or whatever it
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Speaker 1: is you just said. Right there, I'm gone. Okay, Dr
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Speaker 1: Tiffany Sanders, please take off your psychologist hat just for
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Speaker 1: a moment and put on your regular working woman hat.
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Speaker 1: First of all, a married man wants to take you
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Speaker 1: in his basement to quote make you feel good. You
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Speaker 1: know what, I feel good walking out the door. This
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Speaker 1: is not a young girl. She's at a married man's
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Speaker 1: home and he wants to take her to the basement
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Speaker 1: to quote make her feel good and do a pull up. Okay,
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Speaker 1: that is laughable, right, Nancy. You know this is a husband,
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Speaker 1: a former Navy seal. Professionalism when you're interacting with other professions,
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Speaker 1: there's no need to make each other feel good. If
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Speaker 1: she's doing a service and she cuts your hair, that
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Speaker 1: makes you feel good, and then you give her a
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Speaker 1: chip as you pay, and you escort her out the door.
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Speaker 1: So he was actually trying to seduce her. I'll make
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Speaker 1: you feel good. Let me bring you in this place,
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Speaker 1: and let me show you how to do it properly.
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Speaker 1: Those are tactics of a of a single man who's
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Speaker 1: aggressively pursuing a woman, not of a politician and an
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Speaker 1: upstanding citizen who is supposed to be leading the state
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Speaker 1: or a future leader of the state. I'm very sad
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Speaker 1: and disappointed to hear that if my husband had done
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Speaker 1: anything like that, Oh, we would truly have a problem.
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Speaker 1: If David Eugene Lynch invites another woman to the basement
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Speaker 1: to teach her how to do a pull up, Honey,
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Speaker 1: he's coming home to all his clothes burning in the
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Speaker 1: front yard, and all the locks change exactly whenever he
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Speaker 1: smarts up. I say something loving like, how does every
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Speaker 1: other weekend sound to you? Okay? That straightens them up
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Speaker 1: pretty quickly, Arn't Harris, stop laughing because you know David. Okay,
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Speaker 1: I want to get back to this. Arn't Harris. There
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Speaker 1: you see a woman's view of let me teach you
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Speaker 1: how to do a pull up in my basement. For
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Speaker 1: all of you guys listening to serious sex in one two,
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Speaker 1: please do not use that pitiful pickup line, come to
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Speaker 1: my basement, let me teach you how to do a
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Speaker 1: pull up? But actually aren't. Maybe it is a good
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Speaker 1: pickup line because seemingly it worked art well. Nancy, I'm,
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Speaker 1: according to the uh, the student of push ups. She
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Speaker 1: did go to the basement. Uh, she did say that
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Speaker 1: she knew that this was a seduction scene. Uh, and
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Speaker 1: she just froze. Apparently he taped her hands to some
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Speaker 1: rings according to uh. To her, uh, presumably to make
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Speaker 1: it easier to hold onto them while she was doing
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Speaker 1: the push up. But then she sees a flash and
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Speaker 1: knows that he is taking a picture of her when
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Speaker 1: she hears him say, if you ever say anything or
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Speaker 1: mention my name, these will be widely circulated. This is
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Speaker 1: according to her ex husband, who is very angry and
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Speaker 1: has been tweeting the governor quite a while accusing him
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Speaker 1: of of these things that he finally has acknowledged. Are
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Speaker 1: are you're putting the cart before the horse? Hold on?
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Speaker 1: Let me back it up. When you first said taped
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Speaker 1: her fingers two rings, I just assumed you were putting
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Speaker 1: tape in the back of a ring on your finger
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Speaker 1: to make it fit your finger. Did I get that wrong?
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Speaker 1: I'm reading between the lines, Nancy as a next native
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Speaker 1: guy who knows no seals and knows how how you
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Speaker 1: do pull ups and how to make them easy. Uh,
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Speaker 1: that is, if you can somehow tape your hands in place.
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Speaker 1: It's the only thing that I can imagine. He was
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Speaker 1: doing unless there was some bond did you going on?
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Speaker 1: Which she doesn't just allege. Alan, What I'm trying to
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Speaker 1: say is, these were not rings that fit on your fingers.
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Speaker 1: These were exercise pull up rings. I believe Art left
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Speaker 1: out the part where she was naked and blindfolded, Alan Duke,
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Speaker 1: these were exercise pull up rings. She was naked and blindfolded.
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Speaker 1: Let's just try to start at the beginning. The hair
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Speaker 1: addresser goes to his home ostensibly to do his hair.
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Speaker 1: He invites her to the basement to quote make her
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Speaker 1: feel good and show her how to do a pull up.
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Speaker 1: She goes down there, according to Art Harris, and he
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Speaker 1: tapes her hands to pull up exercised rings. Somehow she
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Speaker 1: ends up naked and blindfolded, and there's a photo taken
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Speaker 1: and that sets the ball in motion. But to Neema
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Speaker 1: had Dotti, very well known l a criminal defense lawyer, Nema,
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Speaker 1: I don't want to throw you a bone on this one,
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Speaker 1: but so far I have not heard a crime yet. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: definitely not. And on top of everything, there is some
9:04
Speaker 1: type of motive even by the ex husband that his
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Speaker 1: marriage fell. Apart as to maybe stretching the truth a
9:11
Speaker 1: little bit, well, don't you think of photos? Pictures speaks
9:14
Speaker 1: a thousand words, aren't Harris? What are you saying about
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Speaker 1: a photo? The hairdresser notices a flash and assumes that
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Speaker 1: he has taken photos of her nude. Uh he she says.
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Speaker 1: He then said, look, if you ever say anything is
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Speaker 1: my name, because will be widely circulated. He denies that,
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Speaker 1: of course, through his lawyer. And as far as the
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Speaker 1: crime goes, I'm trying to figure out why it is
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Speaker 1: now being investigated by the local d A. Uh, the
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Speaker 1: husband says. The FBI has has called Uh. So, I
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Speaker 1: don't know if that is in relation to a blackmail
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Speaker 1: alleged blackmail threat or an email the the wife sent
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Speaker 1: him to say, you know, we gotta cut this off,
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Speaker 1: hurting com many people that email his surface Nancy in
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Speaker 1: the local newspaper. Uh. And so you have a lot
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Speaker 1: of snippets of so called evidence that is is a
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Speaker 1: little murder. As a matter of fact, let's take a listen,
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Speaker 1: Alan Deep, could you please roll the conversation we have
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Speaker 1: recorded allegedly by the hairdresser's ex husband and her husband
10:32
Speaker 1: tell me the truth. So on Saturday morning, before my
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Speaker 1: first client, I did go to his house percent. Ever,
10:45
Speaker 1: like I said, nothing was period, had ever happened or
10:48
Speaker 1: taken place until this snowball tornado just happened. I know
10:53
Speaker 1: I brought it on. So she's explaining. Alan Deep explaining
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Speaker 1: to her ex husband that her interactions with Governor Grighton
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Speaker 1: we're sometimes initiated by her. They met because she did
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Speaker 1: his hair, But the fact that they met professionally and
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Speaker 1: she initiated some of their sex interactions does not relieve
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Speaker 1: him from that. But again, Alan, an extramarital affair is
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Speaker 1: not a crime. It was consensual. Okay, let's let's listen
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Speaker 1: to that. That Eric a year ago, and I instantly
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Speaker 1: had a big crush on it. So to Dr Tiffany Sanders,
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Speaker 1: Chicago psychologist, she says she feels drawn to the governor,
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Speaker 1: but when he told her, I want you to come
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Speaker 1: over to his home, she had first said no, she
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Speaker 1: wanted to meet for coffee, and he responds, I can't,
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Speaker 1: I can't be seen with you. This is wrong. Listen
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Speaker 1: to what she said, and I said, I know, So
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Speaker 1: he said, just just come to my house. And here's
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Speaker 1: the slippery slope. Dr Tiffany. She says, she agrees to
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Speaker 1: go to his house to quote talk talk. I don't
12:16
Speaker 1: want to talk to a married man. I don't even
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Speaker 1: want to talk to them absolutely. What what's the purpose
12:21
Speaker 1: of the conversation. You could essentially email your rate, what
12:27
Speaker 1: you know, send pictures of your portfolio of work you've done.
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Speaker 1: What do we need to discuss? And the reason why
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Speaker 1: he didn't want to possibly meet with her in public
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Speaker 1: is because he didn't want to give an image of
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Speaker 1: doing something improper, So he begs you to meet behind
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Speaker 1: closed doors. That's a clear warning sign, though, And where
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Speaker 1: is this woman's judgment? She also was married, so you
12:50
Speaker 1: have to think about it. If your husband was doing
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Speaker 1: something like that, wouldn't you be offended? So somewhere at
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Speaker 1: all sense of judgment on both parts is to totally missing.
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Speaker 1: And I am surprised that this woman made these are
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Speaker 1: took these steps. Take a listen to what Elsie, a
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Speaker 1: legend mistress, has to say. He said, I'll make you
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Speaker 1: feel better because I'll make you so good. Come downstairs.
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Speaker 1: I want to show you how to get a proper
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Speaker 1: pull up. And I knew that he would being sexual,
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Speaker 1: and I still let him. I mean used some sort
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Speaker 1: of tape I don't know what it was, and takes
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Speaker 1: my hands to these rains and then he blind bled
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Speaker 1: on me. I don't know, I don't even know. I
13:42
Speaker 1: just know, and he's stuffed back and so fleshed bild.
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Speaker 1: He said, you're never going to mention my name otherwise
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Speaker 1: thing that was so aren't Harris Crime Stories contributing reporter.
14:04
Speaker 1: That's exactly as you said. It is supported in these
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Speaker 1: recorded conversations about the flash. No one has seen the photos, Nancy,
14:12
Speaker 1: or they haven't been produced. He denies uh taking them,
14:17
Speaker 1: but I think at one point he may say I
14:20
Speaker 1: had some photos and I deleted them. But there, you know,
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Speaker 1: there's not So where's that evidence that he was supposedly
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Speaker 1: going to use the blockmailer? We don't know. We do know.
14:32
Speaker 1: This husband has been calling newspapers, tweeting and turning over
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Speaker 1: tapes he's made of his wife discussing this, and that
14:44
Speaker 1: has created a firestorm in Missouri and demands for him
14:49
Speaker 1: to resign, and now a local d A saying the
14:52
Speaker 1: local citizens deserve a full investigation of this as a
14:57
Speaker 1: matter of fact. Aren't. Once again, you're right. Take to
15:00
Speaker 1: listen to what the ex husband has to say. This
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Speaker 1: is what he tells news for and why you still
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Speaker 1: upset and took a bigure of my wife naked as blackmail?
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Speaker 1: There is no worse person. I think it's as bad
15:15
Speaker 1: as it gets. I think it's as bad as it
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Speaker 1: gets when somebody takes advantage of somebody, so to l
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Speaker 1: a criminal defense attorney, Niema has Ati, Niema, this is
15:27
Speaker 1: where the allegation of blackmail comes in. It's what the
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Speaker 1: governor allegedly tells the mistress about the photo. Yes, you know, Nancy.
15:39
Speaker 1: One more issue that bands out to me as well
15:42
Speaker 1: is even after the alleged blackmail takes place. Uh, the
15:47
Speaker 1: mistress does alleged that there's one more physical altercation even
15:50
Speaker 1: after that. So Nima Haidati, you're right, You're right about
15:56
Speaker 1: that timeline of events. She us go back to the well.
16:01
Speaker 1: But does that negate the initial blackmail? No, it does not.
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Speaker 1: Initial alleged blackmail go ahead. No, based on those facts. Uh,
16:12
Speaker 1: if th facts are true, then this does equated to blackmail. Um,
16:18
Speaker 1: there is a threat to release something embarrassing to the public,
16:23
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what allegedly happened in that case. I'm
16:26
Speaker 1: trying to sort through all this to Alan Duke. He
16:33
Speaker 1: has issued a statement what does his statement say, Alan, Yes, Nancy.
16:40
Speaker 1: After this just emerged very recently, he and his wife
16:43
Speaker 1: issued a joint statement. In fact, they sort of did.
16:46
Speaker 1: In her voice, she says, a few years ago, before
16:49
Speaker 1: Eric was elected governor, there was a time when he
16:52
Speaker 1: was unfaithful in our marriage. This was a deeply personal mistake.
16:56
Speaker 1: Eric took responsibility. We dealt with this together honestly and privately,
17:01
Speaker 1: and that was the initial statement. He did admit to
17:05
Speaker 1: being unfaithful, though, and that's probably the important thing. But
17:09
Speaker 1: they say it is over, let's forget about it. Well,
17:13
Speaker 1: the reality is, um, if you locked up every guy
17:17
Speaker 1: that's been unfaithful, well, who would be left? Jackie, She's saying,
17:22
Speaker 1: I don't know, would there be anybody left. I swear
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Speaker 1: on a stack of Bibles that my husband and my
17:29
Speaker 1: father were never unfaithful, and I'm going to go to
17:31
Speaker 1: my grave believing that. And I don't want to know
17:34
Speaker 1: anything different. But I mean, what I'm saying is to
17:39
Speaker 1: be unfaithful, to cheat on your wife or husband is
17:44
Speaker 1: not a reason to lose a job. Period. When he
17:48
Speaker 1: comes back up for reelection, then that people of Missouri
17:52
Speaker 1: can decide if they want him to be their governor anymore.
17:54
Speaker 1: I mean, look at Clinton for Pete, say, he was
17:57
Speaker 1: voted in twice and we know he ran around owned.
18:00
Speaker 1: So let's take this thing through. The problem with this, though,
18:06
Speaker 1: is blackmail. That is a crime. If this rises to blackmail?
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Speaker 1: Two Art Harris Crime Stories, contributing reporter Art. Is there
18:18
Speaker 1: actually a formal investigation going on? Is this governor Missouri
18:24
Speaker 1: governor under criminal investigation for blackmail? The circuit you got,
18:30
Speaker 1: the circuit attorney is looking into this, she says, and
18:34
Speaker 1: has asked anyone with any knowledge to call her office
18:38
Speaker 1: and they will follow up on on on any tips
18:42
Speaker 1: if these this vaccinario is true. And he takes a
18:46
Speaker 1: picture of her, blindfolded and naked and says, if my
18:49
Speaker 1: name gets out, your picture is going to be everywhere.
18:53
Speaker 1: That's blackmail. But how do you prove that to a jury? You?
18:59
Speaker 1: It seems to me it's a tough one if you're
19:02
Speaker 1: a d a uh, And it's a dream case if
19:05
Speaker 1: you're a defense lawyer. First of all, you don't have
19:08
Speaker 1: a photo. Uh. Second of all, you have her statement
19:11
Speaker 1: to her husband that that's what happened, and they are
19:16
Speaker 1: now divorced. This has caused a rupture in their marriage.
19:20
Speaker 1: Uh they have a daughter. Uh the guidance have children
19:25
Speaker 1: and you know so this that rupture is the marriage.
19:29
Speaker 1: I guess so. I mean if I walked in and
19:32
Speaker 1: found David with another woman and either one of them
19:34
Speaker 1: were tied up doing a pull up naked in a blindfold?
19:37
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for would fly? Arn't for would fly? You
19:41
Speaker 1: don't know it. But I want to get back to
19:44
Speaker 1: what concerns me. I don't care what they're doing in
19:47
Speaker 1: their private time. I do not care. But what I
19:50
Speaker 1: care about it's a crime. Now, you said this is
19:53
Speaker 1: tough to prove. How are you going to prove it? Well,
19:55
Speaker 1: I'll tell you how. It's called a jury trial. That's how.
19:58
Speaker 1: If they believe the amen, then they'll convict. If they
20:02
Speaker 1: don't believe it was a legitimate blackmail, then they will not.
20:06
Speaker 1: That's how you prove it, win or lose. You put
20:09
Speaker 1: it to a jury. You give it your best shot.
20:11
Speaker 1: Remember all those days in court together, aren't Harris? I
20:14
Speaker 1: remember you, Nancy, Uh, imploring the jury of a young
20:20
Speaker 1: woman who was fifteen and looked older. But in your
20:23
Speaker 1: eyes you told the jury I'll never forgets she is
20:26
Speaker 1: a child of God and Nancy. They came back and
20:29
Speaker 1: they believe you, and they believed the you know, the
20:33
Speaker 1: the victim. So you know, you don't know what the
20:35
Speaker 1: jury is gonna believe. But it does boil down to credibility,
20:38
Speaker 1: it really does. I'm just trying to figure out. I'm
20:41
Speaker 1: gonna go back to Nema Haddadi on this. Nema, what
20:44
Speaker 1: is your understanding? I mean, I think I understand very
20:47
Speaker 1: well what is blackmail? But do you believe this is blackmail?
20:52
Speaker 1: Do you think a jury would convict you know, I
20:55
Speaker 1: don't based on the facts right now, technically allegedly, yes,
21:01
Speaker 1: the way that the facts are put out there, if
21:03
Speaker 1: if you were to believe the recording guest, I believe
21:06
Speaker 1: that the jury would um come back. They have the
21:10
Speaker 1: elements of black mouth. But I feel like for a
21:13
Speaker 1: defense attorney, there's a lot of issues. There's a lot
21:16
Speaker 1: of things missing, there's a lot of motive there. Um,
21:20
Speaker 1: there's just it seems like a lot of issues to
21:22
Speaker 1: Mighty the water. Well, we've done some legal research and
21:26
Speaker 1: um Aunt Harris and I worked on a case like
21:28
Speaker 1: this together many many years ago. But Missouri's wire tapping
21:34
Speaker 1: law is a one party consent, which means if you're
21:40
Speaker 1: on the phone and you're you're talking to someone, one
21:43
Speaker 1: of you agrees to be taped and the other one
21:47
Speaker 1: doesn't know. That's okay, all right. You can record your
21:52
Speaker 1: own conversations. And that is what the ex husband did
21:55
Speaker 1: in this scenario. He taped his conversations with his wife
21:59
Speaker 1: as she was describing this sex encounter with the governor.
22:03
Speaker 1: You know what, I hate to see a good governor,
22:07
Speaker 1: if he is in fact a good governor, a Navy seal,
22:11
Speaker 1: veteran's charity organizer, a Rhodes scholar, go crashing down. Especially
22:18
Speaker 1: hate to see his family go crashing down over an affair.
22:23
Speaker 1: If the wife wants to put their relationship back together.
22:26
Speaker 1: But if blackmail is involved, that, as I said, is
22:31
Speaker 1: a whole another can of worms. We are on it,
22:35
Speaker 1: you know, switching gears very quickly. Are you exhausted, Art Harris? Okay?
22:41
Speaker 1: Because you've got the two boys you've raised, you've got
22:44
Speaker 1: a much younger wife. Okay, I'll just put that out there.
22:47
Speaker 1: You're traveling all over the world reporting, um writing the works,
22:53
Speaker 1: because I am, you know me, trying to keep up
22:55
Speaker 1: with the twins. I'm half dead all the time. Have
22:58
Speaker 1: you guys heard of super foods because I read about
23:01
Speaker 1: it and heard about it and didn't know what it was.
23:04
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24:50
Speaker 1: I'm traveling across the country. In fact, we're heading to
24:54
Speaker 1: Kyoga County in Cleveland and the Medical Examiner's office. We
24:59
Speaker 1: have learned and that the remains of a four year
25:03
Speaker 1: old taught have been discovered. Not only have they been discovered,
25:10
Speaker 1: no one has claimed them to Arn't Harris Crime Stories
25:15
Speaker 1: contributing reporter are what can you tell me? How can
25:18
Speaker 1: someone not notice their four year old child is missing? Nanthy,
25:22
Speaker 1: This is something that has traumatized even the homicide detectives.
25:26
Speaker 1: He's never seen a case like this in the seventeen
25:29
Speaker 1: years on the force. They have found a skeletal remains
25:34
Speaker 1: of a four year old Uh in garbage bags in
25:39
Speaker 1: the back of a vacant house. This was back in
25:40
Speaker 1: September twenty uh landscape refinds the bags he's a skeleton,
25:45
Speaker 1: calls police. They're taken to the medical examiner's office and
25:49
Speaker 1: she does a facial reconstruction, uh and develops a photo
25:55
Speaker 1: of this this child, and the police put it out
25:58
Speaker 1: on the media. No one has come forward to say
26:01
Speaker 1: they have lost a child. A child is missing, and
26:04
Speaker 1: the theory is, well, maybe it came off someone came
26:09
Speaker 1: off the highway near here and tossed the child, so
26:13
Speaker 1: it may not be local. But this is a horrible mystery,
26:17
Speaker 1: uh that someone would not come forward and claim, uh,
26:20
Speaker 1: this body, this child. No one was reported a child
26:23
Speaker 1: missing and so Nancy, this is something uh for cs.
26:27
Speaker 1: I take a listen to detective into not five and
26:31
Speaker 1: homicide now for almost seventeen years, and this is the
26:33
Speaker 1: first case I've had like this. To Alan Duke joining
26:36
Speaker 1: me in l A. Alan, this is not some um
26:40
Speaker 1: quote bad area of town. This is a pretty nice
26:44
Speaker 1: looking home and the child has found amidst garbage bags
26:47
Speaker 1: in the back. But the kicker is it's under construction.
26:51
Speaker 1: They're renovating or remodeling or rebuilding, and workers are the
26:55
Speaker 1: one that found ones that found the skeletonized remains. It
26:59
Speaker 1: was a escaper who was cleaning up the yard. Apparently
27:02
Speaker 1: they're getting ready to reoccupy it. But it's it's unoccupied
27:04
Speaker 1: now and has been apparently for a while. But yeah,
27:07
Speaker 1: nobody was living there. The fact that it was amongst
27:10
Speaker 1: or in trash bags says to me this was a
27:13
Speaker 1: homicide because a child does not die by accident without
27:18
Speaker 1: nine one one being called. Say they drowned in the bathtub,
27:21
Speaker 1: or they fell, or they got run over in the street,
27:25
Speaker 1: you would typically call nine one one. Why would you
27:28
Speaker 1: put you know, as much like top Mom Casey Anthony,
27:31
Speaker 1: why would you put the child in a trash bag
27:34
Speaker 1: and throw away the body unless it was a nefarious death. Now,
27:39
Speaker 1: this child has been skeletonized, so the child has been there,
27:43
Speaker 1: according to them, at least several months. The child is
27:49
Speaker 1: around four years old with dark wavy hair. That's all
27:54
Speaker 1: we know now, Art, you and I have been working
27:59
Speaker 1: together many many cases, and we know that it is
28:05
Speaker 1: phenomenal what sketch artists can do as far as reconstructing
28:11
Speaker 1: what a corpse would look like in life, and they've
28:15
Speaker 1: done a pretty good job. Art. It's astounding what the
28:19
Speaker 1: artist has done here, Nancy Uh and you know this
28:23
Speaker 1: is a She's given the child a personality. It looks
28:27
Speaker 1: like in these photos even a smile uh, and smile
28:31
Speaker 1: she made because she found several teath and things that
28:36
Speaker 1: even one of them was a little chipped. And so
28:39
Speaker 1: the picture picks a a happy child here, uh before
28:44
Speaker 1: uh he ran into a terrible trauma. Uh and was
28:50
Speaker 1: was tossed like a piece of garbage. You know the
28:53
Speaker 1: fact that you what you just told me A chip
28:55
Speaker 1: tooth that indicates to be some type of impact. If
28:59
Speaker 1: the two that's still in the mouth, that means the
29:02
Speaker 1: child had impact to the mouth forcibly enough to chip
29:06
Speaker 1: a tooth. It's not like animals got ahold of it
29:10
Speaker 1: and they found a tooth outside the body and anything
29:13
Speaker 1: could really have happened to it. This chip tooth was
29:16
Speaker 1: still in the child's mouth, which tells me there was
29:19
Speaker 1: a forcible impact to the mouth. Also, uh, the date
29:23
Speaker 1: the child has been there about four months, So we're
29:25
Speaker 1: looking for a four year old that's been gone at
29:28
Speaker 1: least four months. Dark wavy hair also d NA there
29:36
Speaker 1: should be if there's any hair, enough hair to get
29:39
Speaker 1: a nucleus which means the root of your hair. From that,
29:43
Speaker 1: if it's allowed in the state, I would advise familial
29:48
Speaker 1: d n A. A familial d n A search Alan
29:53
Speaker 1: do you, and I've gone round and round about familial DNA.
29:57
Speaker 1: What that is is say Art Harris Sorr, but you're
30:00
Speaker 1: about to be dead. In this scenario, I find Art
30:03
Speaker 1: Harris's body, I don't know who it is. So I
30:06
Speaker 1: take Art's DNA and I compare it through familial DNA
30:12
Speaker 1: to everybody in codis. That is the nationwide directory of
30:19
Speaker 1: d n A. It's basically d n A of a
30:22
Speaker 1: lot of the felons and some misdemeanors across the country.
30:26
Speaker 1: It will identify if this DNA is related to anybody
30:32
Speaker 1: behind bars right now or anybody in their family are alan.
30:37
Speaker 1: Don't you think that would be a good next step. Yeah? Yeah, Well.
30:41
Speaker 1: The the nice thing about familiar DNA is while Art
30:43
Speaker 1: doesn't have a criminal record, maybe his evil sister does
30:47
Speaker 1: not that I know he's got one. But let's say
30:51
Speaker 1: her DNA is in the system, and they can match
30:54
Speaker 1: it up and say, okay, somebody related to this woman
30:59
Speaker 1: is our perpetrator or a suspect, and they will then
31:02
Speaker 1: start looking around in this in the family. Then you
31:05
Speaker 1: go to that woman and say, hey, tell me about
31:07
Speaker 1: your relatives who could have possibly done this. Now Here
31:12
Speaker 1: you would be doing it in reverse. You've got the
31:15
Speaker 1: victims DNA from a root, a nucleus of the hair,
31:19
Speaker 1: and if you've got a tooth still attached to the gum,
31:22
Speaker 1: you might be able to get DNA there. So you
31:25
Speaker 1: would be trying to find somebody related to this child
31:30
Speaker 1: behind bars. And I'm happy to report that in this
31:34
Speaker 1: jurisdiction Ohio, they do allow the use of familial DNA.
31:41
Speaker 1: Take a listen to what the police say in this
31:44
Speaker 1: most recent press conference. There was a homicide in the
31:48
Speaker 1: same area around the same time frame that we discovered
31:51
Speaker 1: these remains, and we thought it may have been connected,
31:54
Speaker 1: but no, it's not connected at all anything else. How're
32:08
Speaker 1: how I would say that there's somebody that misses this
32:16
Speaker 1: for year old, They just haven't put the pieces together
32:19
Speaker 1: to know that we're looking for this person. So that
32:23
Speaker 1: sketch that guys have blasted out every place. I mean,
32:27
Speaker 1: we checked every known database that we have for a
32:31
Speaker 1: child at that age arrange to be missing, and we
32:34
Speaker 1: can't find one that matches this description. So of course
32:37
Speaker 1: there's somebody that the child and just end up there.
32:41
Speaker 1: So we're just asking to public help and and identifying
32:44
Speaker 1: this child and and given us some kind of closure
32:48
Speaker 1: and information as to how this transpired so that we
32:50
Speaker 1: can finish this case. But again to Dr Tiffany Sanders,
32:54
Speaker 1: Chicago psychologists, how do you not notice your four year
32:59
Speaker 1: old child is gone for four months? Nancy? It's unthinkable.
33:04
Speaker 1: It makes me question the parents love and care for
33:07
Speaker 1: the child, which obviously is probably nothing, and what whether
33:11
Speaker 1: that child was abused or neglected when they were under
33:14
Speaker 1: her care. So this is a person who is callous.
33:18
Speaker 1: They have no regard for human life. That's why they
33:21
Speaker 1: didn't copy file a police report and maybe dropped that
33:24
Speaker 1: body off in a different location. These parents did not
33:28
Speaker 1: do what the parents supposed to love, protect, teach, care,
33:32
Speaker 1: guide their child. And this young, unfortunate, beautiful four year
33:37
Speaker 1: old could have been a valuable member to our society.
33:40
Speaker 1: That is a little boy. It's a little boy with wavy,
33:45
Speaker 1: dark hair. The sketch artists put the hair down to
33:50
Speaker 1: just down the neck. Take a listen. Little boy did
33:54
Speaker 1: have a strong chin. He had all six of his
33:57
Speaker 1: top front teeth. So I did him smiling because the
34:01
Speaker 1: teeth can be very diagnostic, meaning we recognize, and I
34:06
Speaker 1: think the tip of one of his canines was a
34:08
Speaker 1: little bit shifted, and I think that even shows in
34:11
Speaker 1: the picture I drew. I'm just looking at this sketch.
34:14
Speaker 1: It's incredible. It's a really good sketch. For anyone with
34:18
Speaker 1: any information, help us, help us identify this child. The
34:23
Speaker 1: tip line to one six seven two one five, six
34:28
Speaker 1: one zero, press one two one six seven to one
34:32
Speaker 1: five six one zero or two one six six two
34:37
Speaker 1: three five four six four two one six six two
34:41
Speaker 1: three five four six four. The location is Kyoga County.
34:49
Speaker 1: The remains of this little four year old boy were
34:52
Speaker 1: found on Long Mead Avenue. There's no doubt about it.
34:57
Speaker 1: Right now, we're trying to determine the cause of death,
34:59
Speaker 1: and Medical Examiner's Office says they are still in the
35:02
Speaker 1: early stages of their investigation to establish an identification and
35:08
Speaker 1: a cause of death. They're still working on it. I
35:12
Speaker 1: guess our Harris, the fact that the child is skeletonized,
35:17
Speaker 1: it's going to be very difficult to determine co d
35:20
Speaker 1: cause of death. You know, they've got to rule out
35:22
Speaker 1: all sorts of things that you've you've gone strangly relation death.
35:25
Speaker 1: For example, is the highoid bone broken in the neck,
35:29
Speaker 1: and that's one thing they would want to rule out um.
35:32
Speaker 1: You know what about the teeth. I mean you suggest
35:35
Speaker 1: that perhaps a victim of of domestic abuse of sorts,
35:38
Speaker 1: maybe of the mother's boyfriend. What's happened to the mother
35:42
Speaker 1: We don't know, but the tooth is chipped, couldn't have
35:44
Speaker 1: been from a bicycle fall. I mean, all these things
35:47
Speaker 1: have to be ruled out. But they're working backwards. Listen
35:50
Speaker 1: to detective and to not this long meat addresses you know,
35:55
Speaker 1: close pro semit, interstate and for eight. So maybe someone
35:59
Speaker 1: has pa us and through trying to find a place
36:01
Speaker 1: to you know, dump the child. Trying to get the
36:05
Speaker 1: UM child identified. Silver PLAF called on offer information who
36:09
Speaker 1: could be? Has been quite a bit of DNA testing
36:12
Speaker 1: already trying to identify the child, but so far, you know,
36:16
Speaker 1: the child that's unidentified. If you have information, please help
36:20
Speaker 1: us solve the mystery of this tiny child's remains. I
36:26
Speaker 1: want to pause and thank our partners who are making
36:30
Speaker 1: our program today on serious XMO possible as we investigate
36:36
Speaker 1: the discovery of this Taughts remains. It's legal zoom and
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38:03
Speaker 1: you not only for what you do for Americans across
38:06
Speaker 1: the country every day, but for being our partner on
38:10
Speaker 1: Syria Sex in two Today Now we traveled to Lancaster,
38:15
Speaker 1: South Carolina, where a three year old little girl has
38:19
Speaker 1: been found dead. Police and Lancaster stunt to find this
38:24
Speaker 1: child dead. To Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert and professor
38:31
Speaker 1: of forensics at Jacksonville State University, what do we know
38:34
Speaker 1: about the cause of death? Cause of death is listed
38:38
Speaker 1: as blunt force trauma to the head in this particular case, Nancy.
38:43
Speaker 1: That's right, Joe Scott. The police are saying in Lancaster County, well,
38:46
Speaker 1: actually the corners are saying that this child died from
38:52
Speaker 1: blunt force trauma to the head which resulted in bleeding
38:58
Speaker 1: inside the skull. Uh. It's akin to having a car crash.
39:05
Speaker 1: That's how severe the head injury was. What causes bleeding
39:10
Speaker 1: to the brain or subdural bleeding. What happens, Nancy, is
39:16
Speaker 1: that when an individual is struck uh in the head. Uh,
39:21
Speaker 1: tiny little vessels rupture, rupture within the brain. And you know,
39:26
Speaker 1: as we all know, our brain is contained within a
39:29
Speaker 1: little sack inside of our skull, and then of course
39:32
Speaker 1: within skull and that pressure begins to build up. You
39:36
Speaker 1: can imagine this little girl struggling for breath. And what
39:39
Speaker 1: happens is they the vessels, the blood vessels in the
39:43
Speaker 1: brain essentially strangulate because it's so constricted and so tight
39:47
Speaker 1: and there's so much blood and there's no relief from this.
39:52
Speaker 1: I recall very well when my little nephew was struck
39:56
Speaker 1: by a car a van by a woman with three
40:00
Speaker 1: screaming kids in the back. He was out riding his
40:02
Speaker 1: bicycle and he had bleeding inside the skull. Luckily, he
40:11
Speaker 1: got raised to the hospital and they put a shunt S, H, U,
40:15
Speaker 1: and T in his skull. That's when I'm still a prosecutor,
40:19
Speaker 1: and they did that to relieve the pressure on the skull.
40:23
Speaker 1: They actually bore a hole in his head and put
40:28
Speaker 1: a tube down the top into his head to relieve pressure.
40:33
Speaker 1: Because that kind of a blow to the head, your
40:36
Speaker 1: brain starts to swell and it can only go so
40:41
Speaker 1: far because of your skull, and then once that happens,
40:45
Speaker 1: you die. And I will never forget flying down the
40:49
Speaker 1: interstate to get to the hospital and walking in and
40:54
Speaker 1: he had a tube coming out the very top of
40:57
Speaker 1: his head. I remember this moment. I to my knees
41:01
Speaker 1: and started praying, because I mean, I'm no doctor, as
41:05
Speaker 1: we all know, but I knew how how serious it was.
41:12
Speaker 1: I'm happy to report that he went on too after
41:16
Speaker 1: a very very long stained children's hospital, to be a
41:21
Speaker 1: double major in college in chemistry in i T. And
41:26
Speaker 1: now he's a sharpshooter I T tech for a big
41:29
Speaker 1: corporation with a wife and a baby that moved in
41:33
Speaker 1: with me with her dog and cat. So you know
41:38
Speaker 1: it can't have a happy ending if you go to
41:42
Speaker 1: the hospital that didn't happen with this little baby, and
41:48
Speaker 1: I'm imagining the injury that by the second grew worse inside.
41:54
Speaker 1: The child said, this is a yes no answer, Joe
41:57
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. Could this type of try to have happened accidentally?
42:02
Speaker 1: It's like she was in a car crash, but she
42:04
Speaker 1: was in a bathtub. Yes, so you think she could
42:09
Speaker 1: have gotten multiple blows to the head while in the bathtub. Okay,
42:14
Speaker 1: so that's a yes no. Um, that's not an answer
42:19
Speaker 1: what the coroner is saying, It could not have happened accidentally.
42:23
Speaker 1: To Bobby Maxwell joining me contributing reporter with crime stories, Bobby,
42:30
Speaker 1: the cops were told that she was in the bathtub,
42:35
Speaker 1: that the babysitter checked on her and she was looking
42:40
Speaker 1: around and breathing that's in the warrant. What more do
42:43
Speaker 1: we know, Bobby, Well, we know that she left the
42:47
Speaker 1: bathroom and when she came back she said she was unresponsive.
42:51
Speaker 1: She are you talking about the little the baby? Kayla
42:54
Speaker 1: Cook was the one who then found a little Lilian unresponsive?
43:00
Speaker 1: You mean the babysitter. Kayla Cook is the girlfriend of
43:04
Speaker 1: little Lilian's father. She was the one in charge of
43:08
Speaker 1: her that day, and she was the one that put
43:10
Speaker 1: her in the bathtub, checked on her later and found
43:13
Speaker 1: her unresponsive. So her story doesn't make any sense. Bobby. Uh,
43:19
Speaker 1: what more do we know about the girl being found unconscious?
43:24
Speaker 1: Lilian not breathing when police recalled to their Heath Circle home.
43:32
Speaker 1: What more do we know about her injuries? Um? The
43:36
Speaker 1: Kayla Cook called after saying the child was unresponsive. The
43:40
Speaker 1: child was supposed to be in the care of the grandmother,
43:44
Speaker 1: according to an Apartment of Social Services UM hand down.
43:49
Speaker 1: So Kayla wasn't even supposed to have the child in
43:52
Speaker 1: her in her care at that time. The child did
43:55
Speaker 1: die by means of a blunt force trauma, according to
44:00
Speaker 1: officials on the scene, and she had bruises on her
44:03
Speaker 1: body as well. Um. When nine one one was called
44:07
Speaker 1: and the responders got there. They said she was unresponsive
44:11
Speaker 1: and she did die in the hospital. She was covered
44:15
Speaker 1: in bruises, numerous bruises across her body. Okay, right there,
44:21
Speaker 1: covered in bruises. Joe Scott Morgan speaking as a forensics expert.
44:27
Speaker 1: When you find a child with blunt force trauma to
44:30
Speaker 1: the head and they're already bruises on her body, that
44:35
Speaker 1: screams pre existing abuse to me. If the bruises are
44:38
Speaker 1: already visible informed, yes, you're absolutely right. Now explain that, Well,
44:45
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a bruises. One of the things that
44:47
Speaker 1: we do, uh, in forensics is something called the aging
44:51
Speaker 1: of bruises, and this gives us an idea. You know, dependently,
44:55
Speaker 1: we can all identify with an old bruise that we
44:57
Speaker 1: have on our body and high changes colors. It's very simple.
45:00
Speaker 1: That's one of the things that we do when we're
45:03
Speaker 1: doing these examinations to determine, uh, how long these bruises
45:08
Speaker 1: have been in place and have they been healing. Remember,
45:10
Speaker 1: these things are occurring in life. You don't get a
45:13
Speaker 1: bruise if you're dead. Okay, So this this trauma has
45:17
Speaker 1: to happen in life and the question is going back,
45:22
Speaker 1: hold on, hold on right there. Bruises don't happen when
45:25
Speaker 1: you're dead. Bruises do not happen post mortem. Why because
45:29
Speaker 1: the blood cannot coagulate or form at the point of impact.
45:35
Speaker 1: Because your blood is not pumping, you get bruises post mortem,
45:41
Speaker 1: post after mortem death, post mortem bruising does not happen.
45:46
Speaker 1: And at the time they find the baby with her
45:49
Speaker 1: head bashed in, a three year old Lillian with her
45:53
Speaker 1: head bashed in in the tub from numerous blows. When
45:57
Speaker 1: you fall in the bathtub, you get one low, you
46:00
Speaker 1: don't fall and then fall again on the other side
46:03
Speaker 1: of your head, and then fall again on the front
46:05
Speaker 1: and fall again on the back. That doesn't happen. That
46:08
Speaker 1: is against the laws of nature. So multiple blows to
46:11
Speaker 1: the head do not happen that way. Plus, she's covered
46:15
Speaker 1: in bruises, bruises that are visible when the E. M. T.
46:18
Speaker 1: S get there. What does that mean? That means that
46:21
Speaker 1: bruises existed before. That means to me the child was
46:26
Speaker 1: beaten before this day. That's what I'm saying, Joe Scott,
46:31
Speaker 1: you're right on target without assessment, Nancy, and I think
46:35
Speaker 1: one of the bigger questions is going to the care
46:38
Speaker 1: of this child? Is how far back in time do
46:42
Speaker 1: these bruises go. Do we have bruises that date three,
46:47
Speaker 1: four or five days, maybe even a week prior to
46:51
Speaker 1: her death? And this goes to this idea of how
46:55
Speaker 1: much agony, how much torment was this poor little angel
46:59
Speaker 1: in prior to the fatal blow that was struck in
47:02
Speaker 1: the bathroom. What do we know, Bobby Maxwell joining us
47:06
Speaker 1: investigative reporter, What do we know about this girlfriend this
47:10
Speaker 1: kill a cook? Well, we know that she was with
47:13
Speaker 1: her boyfriend according to her Facebook page for a good
47:16
Speaker 1: year year and a half um and she was living
47:21
Speaker 1: with the boyfriend and the little toddler and was in
47:25
Speaker 1: her care that day. Kayla has children of her own
47:29
Speaker 1: according to her Facebook page, and um was in this relationship,
47:34
Speaker 1: but does does not show a single picture on her
47:37
Speaker 1: Facebook page of little Lilian, who she had been with
47:41
Speaker 1: for a year and a half. This all goes down
47:44
Speaker 1: with the girlfriend in the home alone. Let me understand
47:48
Speaker 1: Bobby Maxwell was the girlfriend the twenty five year old
47:52
Speaker 1: kill a cook, the only one in the home at
47:56
Speaker 1: the time the child died. I mean, there's a theory
47:58
Speaker 1: in the law which you know, Bobby Race absloquitur, which
48:02
Speaker 1: means the thing speaks for itself. In law school it's civil,
48:06
Speaker 1: not criminal. But in law school they gave us the
48:08
Speaker 1: example of a big bag of flower falling out of
48:12
Speaker 1: a window onto somebody's head and it kills them as
48:14
Speaker 1: they walk underneath, and nobody is in the in the room,
48:18
Speaker 1: which means the thing speaks for itself. It fell out
48:21
Speaker 1: the window on its own and must have been placed
48:26
Speaker 1: there negligently. So here you've got her alone with a
48:31
Speaker 1: little girl in the home, and the girl ends up
48:34
Speaker 1: beating dead in the bathtub. It speaks for itself as
48:37
Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned. She's the only one home. Who
48:40
Speaker 1: else could it have been? I mean, are we sure
48:43
Speaker 1: nobody else was home at the time. No one was
48:45
Speaker 1: home when the E. M s got to the house,
48:49
Speaker 1: and and Kayla was the one that made call. Her
48:54
Speaker 1: brain injuries were so severe she died quote within minutes
48:59
Speaker 1: of the head injury. I want answers. If you know
49:04
Speaker 1: anything about this death, if you know anything about this investigation,
49:10
Speaker 1: please called Child Help one eight hundred four a child
49:17
Speaker 1: or the Lancaster Police Department eight zero three to eight
49:22
Speaker 1: three one one seven three repeat eight zero, three to
49:29
Speaker 1: eight three one one, seven stories signing off goodbye friend,