Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / FSU student Maura Binkley gunned down in "HOT YOGA CLASS" by INCEL Perv

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FSU student Maura Binkley gunned down in "HOT YOGA CLASS" by INCEL Perv · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Now will why my kids
0:11
Speaker 1: are inside the emergency? Yeah, they be in place. I
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Speaker 1: was leaving and a lady who came up ball covered
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Speaker 1: in blood spain. I've just been shot. Okay where she
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Speaker 1: shot at? She was shot and hurt. Either could either
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Speaker 1: went here in her shuster in her back. I'm not
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Speaker 1: her hole in your suge. Okay? Is she breathing. She's breathing.
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Speaker 1: She's talking to conscis very hurt, bleading sud Okay, Anthony,
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Speaker 1: We've got multiple victims shoot into the test. We've got
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Speaker 1: crushed under, We've got him about her. I'm did anybody
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Speaker 1: see a sets that I will never forget that nine
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Speaker 1: one one call when apparently a woman hating misogynist who
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Speaker 1: brands women's quote horse and sluts in songs on YouTube
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Speaker 1: opens fire in a yoga studio joining me today. One
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Speaker 1: of the victims more Bankley's father, along with renowned journalist
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Speaker 1: Christine Emba. It's a phenomena called in cell listening. Everybody
1:20
Speaker 1: really hit her. So there, wait, what's your store called? Hey? Okay, Carlas,
1:24
Speaker 1: are you doing the like three buds man? You're like, okay,
1:27
Speaker 1: we get hey, Okay, calm down, baby. We got him
1:30
Speaker 1: on the way. Okay, they got him on the way.
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Speaker 1: Are you going to say play? What's the store called?
1:35
Speaker 1: Has yoga killers? Wait? What's your store called? You'll be okay.
1:41
Speaker 1: We got him. What's your name? Had a shooter? So
1:44
Speaker 1: very think he shot on the people, but every okay,
1:47
Speaker 1: you of shooter. He was blak and he was like
1:51
Speaker 1: he was waiting wide way short. He was kind of happy.
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Speaker 1: He got a belly. He was wearing her hat. Family.
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Speaker 1: He came in tide room when you run shooting out everyone. Okay,
2:02
Speaker 1: people down on the floor. He shot Okay, people down.
2:05
Speaker 1: It's like three welcome. Okay. It's not just him. It's
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Speaker 1: not this in cell misogynist. It is a phenomena that
2:17
Speaker 1: is growing across our country. You were just hearing the
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Speaker 1: nine one one call the day of a horrific shooting
2:25
Speaker 1: at a hot yoga studio. The shooter's name, I hate
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Speaker 1: to even mention it, Scott Barley. Seven people shot. Of course,
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Speaker 1: women flocking to the studio in the evening hours after work,
2:42
Speaker 1: joining me. Jeff Binkley, his daughter Maura, was shot in
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Speaker 1: the hot yoga studio. You know, Jeff, I will never
2:52
Speaker 1: ever forget the morning I learned about Maura's death. What
2:57
Speaker 1: do you recall of that? I know it was just
2:59
Speaker 1: a haze in your mind. Well, I mean I would
3:02
Speaker 1: call everything, the initial phone call from one of Mara's roommates, mom,
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Speaker 1: discussions with the hospital, Dallassee police, you know, just the
3:18
Speaker 1: the whole process of notification. That's a nightmare and it um,
3:25
Speaker 1: but but you you remember everything and of course piecing
3:30
Speaker 1: together what happened. It was in the evening. Um, you know,
3:35
Speaker 1: we drove down to Tallahassee the next day. We're in
3:38
Speaker 1: touch with people the whole time. But didn't take long
3:44
Speaker 1: for a pretty clear picture to emerge of what happened
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Speaker 1: and why. Now it is a phenomena that is crossing
3:53
Speaker 1: our country, and I've reported on various cases, and I've
3:58
Speaker 1: been trying to verbalize is that what this is? What
4:02
Speaker 1: does it mean? Why are so many men opening fire
4:06
Speaker 1: out of anger toward women? And then I found a voice,
4:11
Speaker 1: a voice that puts some sense to it. It's Christine
4:15
Speaker 1: Emba from the Washington Post. Her article, men are in
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Speaker 1: trouble in cells are proof. I never knew the word
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Speaker 1: in cell. You know, I thought I knew it all
4:24
Speaker 1: about criminal law. I thought it knew it all about
4:26
Speaker 1: being a crime victim. But when I read Christine's column,
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Speaker 1: I was overwhelmed because it verbalized what I've been trying
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Speaker 1: to say. I'm just a trial lawyer, you know, Christine
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Speaker 1: Emba with me, Washington Post columnist, Christine, tell me about
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Speaker 1: your theory of in cell What is in cell? I?
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Speaker 1: In cels? In cells? Yes, so it's not surprising that
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Speaker 1: you hadn't heard of them, because this is a sort
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Speaker 1: of Internet subculture, and it's only more recently become visible
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Speaker 1: in the mainstream because of events like the shooting and
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Speaker 1: others elsewhere. But these in cells are self described. Involuntary
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Speaker 1: cellibus is what they term themselves. Okay, wait, wait, waite
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Speaker 1: White Christine, Okay, I'm a big admirer of yours. But
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Speaker 1: when you say things like involuntary cellibus, I'm just gonna
5:27
Speaker 1: break it down. I'll say it in regular people talk.
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Speaker 1: It's guys that cannot find a sex partner. It's guys
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Speaker 1: that cannot get a date. And I know, let me
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Speaker 1: just say it in my terms. They get angry, and
5:43
Speaker 1: time passes and they get angry or and angry or
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Speaker 1: and angrier and then they start hating the very people
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Speaker 1: they want to go out with. Now you called it
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Speaker 1: involuntary celibacy, I did, yeah, and they're totally right on
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Speaker 1: of the you know, one of the strange things about
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Speaker 1: this Internet subculture, many Internet sub cultures, is that it's
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Speaker 1: weirdly self reinforcing. UM. They have called themselves you know,
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Speaker 1: involuntarily celibate or involuntarily single um, as though the world
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Speaker 1: has completely rejected them, when in reality, a lot of
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Speaker 1: these are just you know, kind of normal guys. Lots
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Speaker 1: of people have gone through, you know, periods where they
6:21
Speaker 1: were single and they didn't want to be single, or
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Speaker 1: like wish they had a partner. Um. But many of
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Speaker 1: these are young men who you know, get on these
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Speaker 1: forums and talk about it, give themselves a name, you know,
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Speaker 1: self reinforced. When someone else voices their frustration was being single,
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Speaker 1: you know, all of the other people on these forums
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Speaker 1: will chime in, and they've even developed you know, a
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Speaker 1: home like social and political theory around why this is happening.
6:50
Speaker 1: And there's chin Yeah, Christine, I've got I'm looking at
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Speaker 1: your article again and the way you describe it. They
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Speaker 1: believe in cell and it's short for involuntary celibacy. That's
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Speaker 1: where the name comes from. In cell she Christine Embat
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Speaker 1: the Washington Post mentioned their communities which are all online. Okay,
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Speaker 1: trust me. They're not getting together in person and going
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Speaker 1: out for dinner somewhere at olive Garden. No, they're up
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Speaker 1: at one and two o'clock in the morning on these
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Speaker 1: crazy websites whining, she says, self reinforcing. That's my interpretation
7:29
Speaker 1: of what you just said. They think, and I'm reading
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Speaker 1: from her article. They think their looks or personality traits
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Speaker 1: have consigned them to life long loneliness, and they add
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Speaker 1: fuel to the fire by elaborate and elaborately misogynistic women,
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Speaker 1: hating theories to blame other people for their plight, choosing
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Speaker 1: only a handful of the most attractive men to be with,
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Speaker 1: that's what they accuse women of and disdaining the rest.
8:01
Speaker 1: But you know, some maple would say that's putting perfume
8:05
Speaker 1: on the pig. Take a listen to our free and
8:07
Speaker 1: Carrie Sanders at NBC News, this is what it really is.
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Speaker 1: This morning, troubling new details are emerging about the man
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Speaker 1: responsible for the deadly shooting at a Tallahassee yoga studio.
8:18
Speaker 1: Police identifying the gunman as forty year old Scott Paul Barley.
8:22
Speaker 1: Authorities say he killed two people on Friday and shot
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Speaker 1: five others before taking his own life. It appears Barley
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Speaker 1: posted dozens of misogynistic and racist videos on YouTube. The videos,
8:35
Speaker 1: which were not widely viewed, have been removed by YouTube
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Speaker 1: because of their offensive content. According to arrest records, Barely
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Speaker 1: had a history of harassing women in Florida. According to
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Speaker 1: one Tallahassee police incident report, in twenty twelve, he was
8:50
Speaker 1: arrested for battery for grabbing girls butts near FSU's campus.
8:55
Speaker 1: A twenty sixteen arrest report for battery states that Barley
8:59
Speaker 1: approached a woman at a Tallahassee area pool and slapped
9:03
Speaker 1: her butt, grabbed it, and shook it. Both charges were
9:06
Speaker 1: eventually dropped. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, the shooter who
9:25
Speaker 1: took the lives of two people in the hot yoga
9:28
Speaker 1: Tallahassee class, started looking into the studio in May of
9:31
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Chief Ngel de Alio says in addition to
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Speaker 1: looking into the studio, Scott Burley was also searching for
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Speaker 1: yoga related pornography. It wasn't until July of twenty eighteen
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Speaker 1: when he bought the gun he would use at Hot
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Speaker 1: Yoga Tallahassee. He made that purchase in Orange City. A
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Speaker 1: few days later, Burley went to the Tallahassee indoor shooting range.
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Speaker 1: In early August, he started looking deeper into the studio,
9:54
Speaker 1: checking out maps and a class schedule. On August seventeenth,
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Speaker 1: he called Hot Yoga Tallahassee. Chief Delio says the studio
10:01
Speaker 1: didn't recall anything specific about the conversation. On October fourteenth,
10:05
Speaker 1: he booked his hotel room in Tallahassee, and on Halloween
10:08
Speaker 1: he bought hearing protection and a yoga mat. Wow, the
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Speaker 1: degree of premeditation in Scott Bailey's attack on women in
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Speaker 1: a Tallahassee Hot Yoga studio overwhelming. That was our friend
10:20
Speaker 1: at wt Excel Tallahassee, Valerie Meals reporting. I'm Nancy Grace.
10:24
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
10:27
Speaker 1: We have an all star panel and we are trying
10:31
Speaker 1: to examine a very very upsetting trend has called insal's. First,
10:38
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Jeffrey Binkley. His daughter
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Speaker 1: Maura was shot at the Hot Yoga studio there in Tallahassee.
10:48
Speaker 1: He co founded Mara's Voice m A U r A.
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Speaker 1: Mara's Voice to help fund in cell research. I had
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Speaker 1: no idea what in cell even was. I kept reporting
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Speaker 1: on and actually prosecuting cases where men were angry, they
11:08
Speaker 1: didn't have dates and would attack women, usually in the
11:11
Speaker 1: form of a rape case, many many of them in
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Speaker 1: inner city Atlanta. And now this it's escalated to murder.
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Speaker 1: Jeff Benkley, I know I'm projecting after the murder of
11:25
Speaker 1: my fiance, say what you must have been feeling. But
11:28
Speaker 1: now that I have the twins Jeff, John, David and Lucy,
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Speaker 1: I can't even imagine somebody taking one of them away
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Speaker 1: from me. And it's just overwhelming when you look back
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Speaker 1: on the phone call when you learned Mara was a victim.
11:50
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts now? As you're hearing Christine Emba
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Speaker 1: and we're about to be joined by Wendy Patrick, author
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Speaker 1: of Red Flags, John Cardillo, former NYPD and veteran psychoanalyst,
12:02
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, Jeff, when you hear us all just
12:06
Speaker 1: talking about it, you know, sometimes when people ask me
12:08
Speaker 1: about Keith's murder, even to this day, I just want
12:12
Speaker 1: to break down and cry. I don't know how you
12:15
Speaker 1: do it. What runs through your mind while we're talking
12:17
Speaker 1: about this, Well, here's here's what runs through my mind.
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Speaker 1: Our culture has to change, you know Mar's wife, which
12:30
Speaker 1: is I think that you know, that's the important thing,
12:37
Speaker 1: and it was about love, care, support, encouragement for others.
12:45
Speaker 1: But along with that, I think that, you know, the
12:48
Speaker 1: most important manifestation of love is our care for our
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Speaker 1: brothers and sisters. And part of that, a big part
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Speaker 1: of that is that responsibility and accountability for their safety
13:02
Speaker 1: to go to school, to go to a church or synagogue,
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Speaker 1: to go to a gym or yoga studio and not
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Speaker 1: be victim to behavior of individuals part of hateful, violent
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Speaker 1: grievents written subcultures. And that's what Mara's voice is about,
13:24
Speaker 1: is about not only research, but education engagement around the
13:30
Speaker 1: intersection of hate and violence in our society. Mara wanted
13:35
Speaker 1: to be a diplomat bring people together. So our responsibility
13:41
Speaker 1: is to again continue what she started. So that's our
13:46
Speaker 1: focus through all the pain that's there every hour, every day.
13:50
Speaker 1: But there was a light. There's a voice that no hateful,
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Speaker 1: cowardly crying. Jeff Benkley. You know, just when I think
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Speaker 1: I am just too tired to keep trying or even
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Speaker 1: look at one more case, then you talk and I
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Speaker 1: completely am inspired and renewed to keep trying and just
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Speaker 1: hearing your voice. And I'm thinking of John, David and Lucy,
14:20
Speaker 1: my twins, and what I want for them. Christine Emba
14:24
Speaker 1: with me. Washington Post columnist article of menner and trouble
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Speaker 1: in Cells or Proof has brought to light and brought
14:32
Speaker 1: a name, a title, an analysis of what is happening.
14:37
Speaker 1: I mean, Lucy right now is about to turn twelve.
14:40
Speaker 1: In six years, she'll be off to college and going
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Speaker 1: to yoga studios and work out classes and spin class
14:47
Speaker 1: or whatever she'll be doing at that time. I want
14:51
Speaker 1: the same thing Jeff Benkley wants Christine Emba. I want
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Speaker 1: her to be free and not live in fear. And
14:58
Speaker 1: right now with the insale movement happening, I mean, Christaine,
15:04
Speaker 1: you had to go to those sites. For instance, Reddit
15:08
Speaker 1: just banned them, but those crazy web chats they engage in.
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Speaker 1: What did you learn, Christine Amber, You're right, I did
15:16
Speaker 1: have to go to the site, and they are disturbing.
15:20
Speaker 1: To save the least the conversations start. You know, at
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Speaker 1: their basic level, they're men, they're usually young men. They're lonely,
15:30
Speaker 1: which is something that happens to everybody at some time
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Speaker 1: or another. But you know, they end up living online
15:37
Speaker 1: and living in their own world where they create this
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Speaker 1: idea of women who are incredibly cruel and themselves as
15:46
Speaker 1: you know, actually helpless before them. And then they become
15:50
Speaker 1: angry because they think they deserve access to women. But
15:55
Speaker 1: you know, behind it all, I think what we're seeing
15:59
Speaker 1: is really sort of a lack, well a lack of
16:02
Speaker 1: a lot of things that are common in our society,
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Speaker 1: you know, taking hold and manifesting in a really dangerous way.
16:09
Speaker 1: Many of these are young men who are perhaps underemployed,
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Speaker 1: you know, not in school, not in training. That's a
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Speaker 1: phenomenon that's you know, really increased over time as women
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Speaker 1: are beginning At a minute, Christaine Emba, you know, as
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Speaker 1: my grandmother used to say, idle hands the devil's workshop. Absolutely,
16:31
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what you're saying. When you're not at work,
16:34
Speaker 1: you're not at school, you're not out doing something, you
16:37
Speaker 1: have time to fester, to sit at home and think
16:40
Speaker 1: about all your problems and really a lot of self analysis. Okay,
16:44
Speaker 1: you know what speaking of self analysis with me, Doctor
16:47
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, John Cardillo, former NYPD, Wendy Patrick, trial
16:52
Speaker 1: lawyer out of California, author of Red Flags. Okay, doctor
16:56
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, are you sitting down? Yes? I am. Okay, Well,
17:01
Speaker 1: I think you better lay down for this. I've been
17:03
Speaker 1: waiting to play this because I hate to even hear
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Speaker 1: the voice, but I want you to hear Scott Barely,
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Speaker 1: the hot yoga shooter. I feel a compulsion now to
17:14
Speaker 1: discuss and address the origins of my misogynism and the
17:22
Speaker 1: rebirth and when it was reborn. Nobody, nobody emerges out
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Speaker 1: of the womb one particular way, or viewing or seeing
17:39
Speaker 1: one particular group of people one particular way. It occurs
17:43
Speaker 1: over a source of accumulated experiences, or maybe it's one
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Speaker 1: perpetual individual. I know a girl and I was teaching.
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Speaker 1: I hated her mom and she was kind of a
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Speaker 1: I didn't she Well, that's a whole other story. Okay,
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Speaker 1: doctor Bethanie Marshall, I need a shrink help me out.
18:02
Speaker 1: There's a lot more, but that's the only one I
18:04
Speaker 1: felt like a play right now. Well, these in cells,
18:07
Speaker 1: and this perpetrator in particular who's talking, really embody the
18:13
Speaker 1: traits of mass murders. They've just found a very clever
18:17
Speaker 1: rationalization for murdering women. And what we know about mass
18:21
Speaker 1: murderers is that they're what one researcher calls injustice collectors.
18:26
Speaker 1: They have a paranoid relationship with society. They feel disempowered.
18:30
Speaker 1: They look at society as an all you can eat
18:35
Speaker 1: buffet where everybody gets to serve up helpings for themselves,
18:40
Speaker 1: but they don't get any of it personally. Everybody else
18:43
Speaker 1: gets all the treasures in life and they get nothing.
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Speaker 1: And these mass murders, in particular, these cells, they plot
18:50
Speaker 1: and plan nancy. They are obsessed with the idea of killing,
18:54
Speaker 1: and they often have all these manifestos. They ramble, they write,
19:00
Speaker 1: they're all kinds of risk factors. Often they do not
19:03
Speaker 1: have jobs. They're disenfranchised, they feel rejected, but in reality
19:08
Speaker 1: they have removed themselves from society because they're envious and
19:13
Speaker 1: they feel that everybody else is better than them. But
19:16
Speaker 1: they're resentful at a pathological level. It's not the normal
19:20
Speaker 1: resentment of somebody who maybe somebody gets a job promotion
19:24
Speaker 1: and they get passed over for that same promotion. It's
19:27
Speaker 1: this belief that everybody has gotten something that they haven't gotten,
19:32
Speaker 1: and they are going to wipe out the objects of
19:35
Speaker 1: their envy. So it's I wouldn't even say with these
19:37
Speaker 1: in cells that it's that they want to have sex
19:40
Speaker 1: with women but they can't get a sex partner. I
19:43
Speaker 1: think it's more basic than that. I think they feel
19:45
Speaker 1: that these women have better lives and they are envious
19:48
Speaker 1: of that, and they just want to blot out their existence.
20:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Upon arriving on sea, officers
20:12
Speaker 1: found multiple victims suffering from gunshot wounds. Emergency responders commily
20:17
Speaker 1: provided aid and transported five victims to local hospitals. One
20:23
Speaker 1: victim has passed away at the hospital. The other four
20:26
Speaker 1: victims at this time we're in pridical condition and we're
20:29
Speaker 1: working closely to identify them, work with them and notify
20:32
Speaker 1: their families. At this time, all indications are this is
20:36
Speaker 1: the act of a single person. The Chief of Police,
20:38
Speaker 1: Michael Delio in Tallahassee, describing a mass shooting at a
20:42
Speaker 1: hot yoga studio in Tallahassee. The victims women the purp
20:47
Speaker 1: and in cell involuntary celibate with me, the dad of
20:54
Speaker 1: victim Mara Binkley, Jeff Bnkley. When you hear the when
20:59
Speaker 1: you listen now to the press conferences and the nine
21:03
Speaker 1: one one calls, does it even seem real? What was
21:07
Speaker 1: your ride light? You got in the car and you
21:10
Speaker 1: drove immediately to Tallahassee. I can only imagine. I remember
21:15
Speaker 1: learning I had just gotten the twins back to New York,
21:18
Speaker 1: gotten them bathed, got them in their pj's, and my
21:20
Speaker 1: mom called and said, they want to put your dad
21:23
Speaker 1: on life support. I remember exactly where I was standing
21:26
Speaker 1: in the apartment, got everybody back out on the street,
21:30
Speaker 1: and it was eleven thirty nine. I was trying to
21:32
Speaker 1: held a cab and somehow get on a plane to
21:34
Speaker 1: get home, and trying to get home was just excruciating.
21:39
Speaker 1: Those hours it took me to get to my dad
21:41
Speaker 1: before he passed away were some of the worst hours
21:45
Speaker 1: I've ever lived through. What was that drive like to Tallahassee?
21:50
Speaker 1: Time slows down, seems like it almost stops. But the thing,
21:54
Speaker 1: most important thing, and what I will remember above and
22:00
Speaker 1: beyond anything else, is the people who reached out and
22:03
Speaker 1: we talked to during that call. I mean during that ride.
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Speaker 1: They got us through, got us a Tallahassee and it's
22:10
Speaker 1: the support of so many loving, caring people, people who
22:17
Speaker 1: live lives that are the antithesis of the Tallahassee shooter.
22:23
Speaker 1: So that degree of care and support that got us
22:29
Speaker 1: through not only those first days, but certainly still does.
22:34
Speaker 1: Wendy patcheckck with me, renowned California trial lawyer, author of
22:37
Speaker 1: Red Flags. You can find it on Amazon. Wendy Patrick,
22:41
Speaker 1: I mean red Flags. There cannot be anything I'm more
22:45
Speaker 1: interested in right now than understanding this phenomena with Christine
22:49
Speaker 1: Emba from the Washington Post and trying to figure out
22:52
Speaker 1: how to stop it with you and Cardillo and doctor
22:55
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. Wendy helped me because these people, as Christine
23:00
Speaker 1: Hiba is correctly describing them, I don't think they have
23:04
Speaker 1: a mental health issue such as insanity or a mental defect.
23:09
Speaker 1: I just think they're self obsessed and turned hateful. It's right, Nancy.
23:12
Speaker 1: From a threat assessment perspective, Christine really had a number
23:16
Speaker 1: of great observations, as did doctor Bethany Marshall, John Cardillo,
23:20
Speaker 1: and I would also look at the same types of
23:22
Speaker 1: things in this man's background. It is too bad nobody
23:25
Speaker 1: was watching what he was posting online because had we
23:27
Speaker 1: been paying more attention, what somebody might have done is
23:31
Speaker 1: linked up what he said and what he did. This
23:33
Speaker 1: wasn't somebody, Wendy, Really, are you seriously saying that we
23:38
Speaker 1: should monitor the internet because it's all I can do
23:42
Speaker 1: to work, take care of the twins, and you know,
23:45
Speaker 1: get up to fight another day. You've got a law
23:47
Speaker 1: enforcement overwhelmed. We can't catch people. Say, hey, do you
23:51
Speaker 1: think you you know, prosecuted an innocent person. I'm like, no,
23:55
Speaker 1: I think that there are millions of people out there
23:57
Speaker 1: that are walking free that we can't catch. That's what
23:59
Speaker 1: I think. Okay, how law enforcement have time to go
24:03
Speaker 1: online and find the idiot in cells? Yeah? No, I'm
24:06
Speaker 1: not saying that they did. In fact, I'm arguing the opposite, Nancy,
24:09
Speaker 1: because we don't have that kind of manpower and resources.
24:13
Speaker 1: This is what ends up happening is there's nobody that
24:15
Speaker 1: sees that says anything. You know. One of the things
24:17
Speaker 1: that's always frustrating is when you have a message from
24:20
Speaker 1: Facebook or some executives saying we expect people to report
24:23
Speaker 1: what they see. People don't do that. Law enforcement doesn't
24:26
Speaker 1: have time to do that. But what makes this man
24:28
Speaker 1: stick out from the crowd is the fact that his
24:31
Speaker 1: long timeline of rumination and injustice collecting. As doctor Marshall says,
24:36
Speaker 1: all of this, they don't snap. This was a long preplanned,
24:41
Speaker 1: let's just say, a march towards death, which is actually
24:44
Speaker 1: what ended up happening. But this is one of those
24:46
Speaker 1: guys that slides under the radar, precisely because Nancy, we
24:50
Speaker 1: don't have the kind of manpower to figure out who
24:53
Speaker 1: is not only saying what this man said online but
24:56
Speaker 1: actually doing criminal acts batteries, grabbing women. Nobody was able
25:00
Speaker 1: to put it together, had we perspective. Sadly, he fits
25:04
Speaker 1: a power. He was hey, guys, I'm sorry him. He
25:08
Speaker 1: was turned into the FBI. A friend of his sister,
25:13
Speaker 1: why saw his videos? This is all the police report
25:16
Speaker 1: contacted the FBI. They said this was not actionable because
25:23
Speaker 1: the threats weren't direct enough. So this behavior, the all
25:27
Speaker 1: my behavior was brought to the detention of law enforcement.
25:31
Speaker 1: He was fired from Lucia County Schools and Florida substitute
25:34
Speaker 1: teacher for touching a twelve year old girl inside her shirt.
25:38
Speaker 1: That's a felony. He could have been charged of the felony,
25:41
Speaker 1: and with his record, he would be probably in jail today.
25:46
Speaker 1: Mara and doctor Vanvessem would be alive. So he was
25:49
Speaker 1: not below the radar, under the radar by any means.
25:53
Speaker 1: He left behind a trail and his behavior. He was
25:57
Speaker 1: fired for looking at pornography in a ask room in
26:00
Speaker 1: Tallahassee middle school classroom, so he was definitely He was
26:08
Speaker 1: evaluated in a number of times, I think four times
26:11
Speaker 1: by mental health professionals. One we learned did identify him
26:17
Speaker 1: as being very dangerous. His counsel managed to keep that
26:20
Speaker 1: out of the hands of the State's Attorney's office in Tallahassee.
26:23
Speaker 1: While he was under Superhero jeff I See, he was
26:26
Speaker 1: arrested several times too, actually brought to the attention of
26:29
Speaker 1: law enforcement and taken into custody see twice. Frustrate guys,
26:33
Speaker 1: you know what you have just totally completely messed my
26:38
Speaker 1: head up because I can't put my finger on it.
26:41
Speaker 1: But Christine Washington Post columnist, I was happier when I thought, okay,
26:48
Speaker 1: he flew under the radar. Nobody knew and this is
26:50
Speaker 1: what happened. Now Jeff Binkley has correctly pointed out he
26:55
Speaker 1: was not under the radar. That used to weigh on
26:57
Speaker 1: my mind so much. Every time I get a plea
26:59
Speaker 1: calendar one hundred and fifty new felons every week to
27:04
Speaker 1: plead out or take to trial. In the back of
27:06
Speaker 1: my mind, I say, you know, what if I let
27:08
Speaker 1: this guy off for X y Z feeling the blank,
27:11
Speaker 1: if I give him a light plea, what if he
27:14
Speaker 1: comes back in a month and he's killed somebody? That
27:17
Speaker 1: weight on my mind so much so I ended up
27:19
Speaker 1: getting a horrible reputation of being a There's no nice
27:22
Speaker 1: way to put it ballbuster, because you know, after the
27:26
Speaker 1: murder of my fiancee, you know I could not in
27:29
Speaker 1: good conscience let somebody get a light plead. It just
27:33
Speaker 1: it's maddening. Christine Emba, there's even more to it. In
27:37
Speaker 1: your article, you have a sentence that says, and you've
27:40
Speaker 1: gotten in italics that says he always hated women, then
27:44
Speaker 1: he decided to kill them. So obviously no one brought
27:49
Speaker 1: him to justice the way he should has been at
27:52
Speaker 1: the get go. But what do you mean by he
27:55
Speaker 1: always hated women? The insul phenomenon is, you know, eight
28:00
Speaker 1: a huge corruption of a lot of the trends that
28:03
Speaker 1: we are seeing in society. One of the reasons one
28:08
Speaker 1: might suspect that when a man was reported to the
28:12
Speaker 1: police for you know, writing racist woman hating posts on
28:17
Speaker 1: his Facebook, is that in some ways in our society,
28:21
Speaker 1: it's kind of okay to hate women. Misogyny is not
28:26
Speaker 1: necessarily seen as something really out of the ordinary, and
28:31
Speaker 1: you know, we see this with discussions about you know,
28:34
Speaker 1: how feminism and ruining women or how you know, how
28:37
Speaker 1: women are taking men's jobs. It becomes sort of normal
28:42
Speaker 1: to resent women. And really, this man had just been
28:46
Speaker 1: doing it all his life. You know, perhaps as a
28:49
Speaker 1: teenager he you know, also hated women. But also the
28:54
Speaker 1: Internet makes this sort of thing worse because you know,
28:57
Speaker 1: in the past, you could guess that some but he
29:00
Speaker 1: might have these kind of crazy ideas. They might be
29:03
Speaker 1: complaining about how they can't get a girlfriend, and that's
29:06
Speaker 1: symbolic of something else. But eventually they would have to
29:10
Speaker 1: go outside, they would have to talk to people just
29:12
Speaker 1: to move around in the world. But now, you know,
29:15
Speaker 1: instead of going out and getting a job, going and
29:18
Speaker 1: talking to a therapist, these men just congregate. In these forums,
29:22
Speaker 1: they talk about their problems over and over, make them worse,
29:26
Speaker 1: encourage each other to since these you know, dark misogynistic thoughts,
29:30
Speaker 1: tell each other they're right, and there's obviously no one
29:33
Speaker 1: online in these forums to correct them, and so it
29:37
Speaker 1: keeps sort of doubling down and reinforcing in these spaces.
29:41
Speaker 1: And then most of them, you know, stay online complain
29:45
Speaker 1: from you know, their mother's basements or wherever they are.
29:49
Speaker 1: But some of them are you know, crazy enough, frankly
29:53
Speaker 1: angry enough that they want to go out and put
29:57
Speaker 1: put an action to their feelings. And when you're feelings
30:00
Speaker 1: are hatred um at the opposite sex, at the entire
30:04
Speaker 1: world for denying you something you think you deserve. M
30:10
Speaker 1: then taking out hatred can take a horrible form, and
30:13
Speaker 1: that's what we've been seeing happening from these forums. You know,
30:17
Speaker 1: these men are leaving imselfs be leaving these forms and
30:20
Speaker 1: taking out for hatred, their misogyny, their anger on innocent women.
30:34
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, we caught in food
30:44
Speaker 1: or your food. You're hearing a nine one one call
30:47
Speaker 1: at the shooting of Hot Yoga and tallahassee a man
30:50
Speaker 1: walks in with the gun, opens fire. These beautiful lives
30:55
Speaker 1: at risk, the life of Maura Bankley gone for what?
31:00
Speaker 1: And now we learn about the phenomena of in cells I, NCLs,
31:05
Speaker 1: involuntary celibates. Listen to what I learned from Christine Emba's
31:09
Speaker 1: Washington Post column. I learned about a book called Men
31:12
Speaker 1: Out Men on the Sidelines of American Life. Okay, millennials
31:17
Speaker 1: are the quote nee lost boys. That's hardly how I
31:20
Speaker 1: would describe these guys. This shooter bearly. As many as
31:24
Speaker 1: one in three American eighteen to thirty four year old
31:27
Speaker 1: men are unemployed living at home because of a confluence
31:30
Speaker 1: of factors. Okay, women surging ahead, out enrolling men in
31:35
Speaker 1: colleges and universities, and uncertainty about their place in the
31:39
Speaker 1: world is leading to spiking levels of anxiety and depression.
31:43
Speaker 1: Does that translate to murder? To John Cardillo joining me
31:47
Speaker 1: right now, former NYPD And you know he's been in
31:50
Speaker 1: the thick of it, John Cardillo, I mean, I know
31:54
Speaker 1: that this book about man out men on the sidelines
31:58
Speaker 1: of American life? All right? You know I feel sorry
32:00
Speaker 1: for anybody that has to live in their mom's basement
32:04
Speaker 1: in their thirties. But when it translates to murder, to
32:09
Speaker 1: hublel with all that psychobabble, no offense, Bethany, but this
32:13
Speaker 1: is a cold blooded murder. And you heard Jeff Binkley
32:17
Speaker 1: correct all of us about this guy's history. He had
32:21
Speaker 1: a history, he was not so quote under the radar.
32:25
Speaker 1: Nothing was done. Help me, what can we do? John Well? Yeah,
32:30
Speaker 1: so much to unpack here. First, let me say to
32:32
Speaker 1: Jeff our thoughts and prayers with you. How impressed I am.
32:35
Speaker 1: Jeff reminds me of my good friend Andy Pollock, who
32:37
Speaker 1: lost his daughter in Parkland. You know, through the pain,
32:39
Speaker 1: they're working hard to make sure other families don't have
32:41
Speaker 1: to go through this. So he's Jeff, he really doing
32:43
Speaker 1: God's work. Very very impressed, Nancy. The big problem here,
32:47
Speaker 1: The big problem here is that we have to balance
32:50
Speaker 1: And this is a conversation I've had with my good
32:52
Speaker 1: friend Lindy Patrick more times than I can count. I
32:54
Speaker 1: know she'll agree. When we monitor these groups online, and
32:57
Speaker 1: I've always been in law enforcement a big fan of
32:59
Speaker 1: pro filing and monitoring as long as we do it constitutionally.
33:03
Speaker 1: And so there's what they're saying online with their writing
33:06
Speaker 1: is vile, it's hateful, it's disgusting. You want to click
33:11
Speaker 1: off the page and turn away. But in all but
33:13
Speaker 1: a few instances, those instances, when they specifically target a
33:17
Speaker 1: person or a location, its First Amendment protected. So law
33:21
Speaker 1: enforcement is monitoring. We found out just this week, just
33:24
Speaker 1: two three days ago, that the United States Air Force
33:27
Speaker 1: received some intelligence that warranted a briefing on in cells
33:31
Speaker 1: at Joint Base Andrews outside of Washington, DC. So the
33:34
Speaker 1: United States Air Force is actually now looking at this group,
33:38
Speaker 1: at these in cells, the same as they're looking at
33:40
Speaker 1: the bloods and the crypts infiltrating military armories, biker gangs,
33:45
Speaker 1: white supremacist groups. So they are firmly on law enforcement's radar.
33:49
Speaker 1: Listen to one about of finding in cells if you
33:53
Speaker 1: want to know or curious why in part guys are
33:58
Speaker 1: so anxious and aggressive and in a hurry. Just watch
34:05
Speaker 1: any any number of television shows that have like thirteen
34:14
Speaker 1: fourteen year olds. Let me forget about high school students,
34:18
Speaker 1: as as their characters going on dates and doing any
34:27
Speaker 1: any variety of things. Okay, you just heard the voice
34:32
Speaker 1: of the monster. There's no other word for it. That
34:36
Speaker 1: took the life of Jeff Binkley's daughter Mara, minding her
34:41
Speaker 1: own business there at a Tallahassee hot yoga studio when
34:44
Speaker 1: he comes blasting in guns a blazing. Now, it wasn't
34:48
Speaker 1: that simple. It took a lot of time and thought
34:51
Speaker 1: and energy and planning for that attack. Christine Mba, your
34:57
Speaker 1: article so true, but it lays me wondering what do
35:01
Speaker 1: I do now there are a million Scott Beerley's out there.
35:06
Speaker 1: That's a really hard question to answer because, as I
35:10
Speaker 1: wrote in my article, you know, the in cells are
35:13
Speaker 1: kind of a symptom of a larger problem that's affecting
35:16
Speaker 1: men across the country, really across the world. You know,
35:20
Speaker 1: we have a culture that you know, sometimes uses sex,
35:24
Speaker 1: the ability to get sex or get a partner as
35:27
Speaker 1: a marker of success. But at the same time, we're
35:31
Speaker 1: getting worse at fostering real human connection with people, and instead,
35:36
Speaker 1: you know, we substitute the internet. And some people I
35:40
Speaker 1: think are strong enough and lucky enough to be able
35:42
Speaker 1: to escape that poll, or they have parents or friends
35:45
Speaker 1: who you know, correct them and bring them outside. But
35:49
Speaker 1: some people are not. And we you know, it's easy,
35:53
Speaker 1: it's easy to say, oh these guys are you know, weirdos,
35:57
Speaker 1: they're gross, will just ignore them, will pretend that this
35:59
Speaker 1: is going on, the rest of us are living our
36:02
Speaker 1: lives generally, okay, so we can just pretend nothing is
36:05
Speaker 1: happening there. But we really will have to look at,
36:08
Speaker 1: you know, our culture and our society and think, what
36:11
Speaker 1: are we doing. What are we doing that we allow this,
36:14
Speaker 1: you know, this talk the hatred of women to become normal?
36:18
Speaker 1: What are we doing that we you know, allow these
36:21
Speaker 1: creepy forums. It's time spent talking to nobody in the
36:24
Speaker 1: real world, but only on the Internet or gaming devices normal.
36:29
Speaker 1: You know, how do we change that? And that's going
36:32
Speaker 1: to be the really hard part because that will be
36:34
Speaker 1: a really deep change for our culture. To Jeffrey Binkley,
36:38
Speaker 1: the dad of Maura Bankley, who was shot and killed
36:43
Speaker 1: at the Hot Yoga studio in Tallahassee, who has now
36:47
Speaker 1: founded Mara's Voice, jeff I want to close with your
36:52
Speaker 1: thoughts and how we can take action through Mara's Voice.
36:55
Speaker 1: Thank you, and I'd like everyone to think about this.
37:00
Speaker 1: Any social problems, social pathologies, they operate on multiple levels,
37:05
Speaker 1: and certainly there's a cultural issue. I would also ask
37:08
Speaker 1: everybody to note that the in cell groups have leaders,
37:14
Speaker 1: and they manipulate and they radicalize online just like any
37:19
Speaker 1: other terrorist group does. There is incitement, which in itself
37:25
Speaker 1: can be a crime, right Nancy. And I heard a
37:28
Speaker 1: CNN reporter, I don't know who it was or i'd
37:30
Speaker 1: give her credit ask someone a question last week and
37:33
Speaker 1: I thought she put it, well, is the internet our
37:37
Speaker 1: quote crowded theater. We're all familiar with the legal analogy
37:42
Speaker 1: fire and a crowded theater. It's not just in cells.
37:45
Speaker 1: There are white supremacists and a Semitic other groups that
37:50
Speaker 1: are very similar in their approaches. The radicalization and incitement
37:57
Speaker 1: that's not protected by the First Amendment. We have to
38:01
Speaker 1: look at very seriously the application of those principles of
38:06
Speaker 1: free speech and how they apply in the age of
38:11
Speaker 1: the Internet. You mentioned your children, everybody's children. How that
38:15
Speaker 1: applies in that crowded theater which every time they log
38:19
Speaker 1: in or turn on their president. And I would just
38:23
Speaker 1: ask everyone listening to consider this, And I ask everyone
38:26
Speaker 1: listening to please go to Mara's voice, Emmason mother au
38:31
Speaker 1: r a a postrophe s Mara's voice to find out
38:36
Speaker 1: about in cell research. You can go online and find
38:40
Speaker 1: Christine Emba's article in the Washington Post. Men are in
38:43
Speaker 1: trouble in cells or proof and that article leads you
38:47
Speaker 1: to so much more. And right now I am remembering
38:52
Speaker 1: in thinking of a beautiful, brilliant girl who lost her
38:57
Speaker 1: life to an in cell. Mora Binkley Nancy Grace crime Story,
39:03
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,