Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Michael Jackson: Superstar pedophile, shocking evidence continues to emerge [Part 2]

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Michael Jackson: Superstar pedophile, shocking evidence continues to emerge [Part 2] · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Why did it take a documentary, a Hollywood documentary to
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: convince the world what so many of us knew at
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the time, and we're berated. I recall I got to
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: hate mail, death threats, the works. First thing, Hey, I'm
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a Jackson fan, but Jackson's a molester. BAM. Crime Stories
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Michael Jackson, there is no doubt about it.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Was one of the most talented musicians in the world.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: But he was a child molester. I mean, see Grace,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Well. As a matter of fact,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: he was arrested. Take a listen to the District attorney
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: yesterday morning at around eight thirty am, investigators from the
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Santa Barbara County Shrift's Department in Santa Barbara District Attorney's
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Office serves as search warrant at Neverland Ranch and Los
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: of Levos. Simultaneous to the service of the warrant at
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Neverland Ranch, two search warrants were also served in southern California.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Approximately seventy investigators from the Sheriff's Department and the District
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Attorney's office were involved in the service of this warrant
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: at Neverland Ranch. The operation was concluded around eleven PM
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: last night. The service of the warrants was part of
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: an ongoing investigation alleging a criminal misconduct on the part
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: of Michael Jackson. The basis for this investigation regarding mister
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Jackson involves allegations of child molestation to eighty eight A
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: of the California Petal Code. Additionally, arrest warrant for mister
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Jackson has been issued on multiple accounts of child molestation.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: The bail amount on the warrant has been set at
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: three million dollars. Take a listen to our friend Mark Garrigos.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: This is abc ne's correspondent, Brian Uney. Michael Jackson got
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: out of a car behind the Santa Barbara County Jail
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: in handcuffs. His lawyer said, the singer is enraged. He
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: considers this to be a big lie. He understands the
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: people who are outraged because if these charges were true,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I assure you Michael would be the first to be outraged.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Jackson had arrived on a private jet from Las Vegas.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: The plane rolled its nose into a hangar where Jackson
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: got into a waiting car out of view of television cameras.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: He was taken into custody there at the airport. Jackson
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: had his mugshot taken and he was fingerprinted here at
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the county jail before he posted a three million dollar bond.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: You are hearing what happened when Jackson pulled in and
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: stepped out of a private hangar in a private jet.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Jackson was ultimately indicted on four counts of molesting a minor,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: four counts of intoxicating a minor in order to molest him,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: one count of attempted child molestation, one count of conspiring
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: to hold the boy and his family captive, and conspiring
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: to commit extortion and child abduction. Jackson found not guilty
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: on all of these what Joining me an all star
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: panel Stephen Lampley, detective, author of Outside Your Door, Host
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: of crime and forensics on casey aa LA Stephen Lampley
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: dot com. Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney. Joining me from
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: New York psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany Marshall, Doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Francy Hikes, former Federal prosecutor, first ever National Coordinator for
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Child Exploitation Prevention and Interdiction at Francy Hikes dot com.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan. But right now to
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Alexis Razchuk joining me from la investigative reporter Radar online
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: dot com. Who was the victim in the Ultimate Charges?
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Victim was a boy named Gavin Arvizo. He and Michael
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Jackson had met. He had cancer. Michael Jackson found out
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: that this little boy had cancer, started sending his family
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: gifts and showering them with attention. Then brought them to Neverland.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: They brought Gavin, his brother, and his mom and his dad.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: They all testified during this trial. And though everybody is
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: saying is they don't understand jury nullification. What happened was
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: for some reason, this jury hated Gavin's mother. They said
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: that she was combative on the stand. They didn't like her,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: and they believed that she had made her son lie
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: about this. This is what a juror from Santa Monco,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: California said, I could never imagine being the kind of
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: mother who would have the more who would teach my
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: children such bad morals. They believe that this mom told
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: her son to lie about it, and they kept saying
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: it was for money. Gavin's family never asked Michael Jackson
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: for any money. This was something that his lawyer said
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: on the stand. There was no evidence to this, and
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: this is what the jurors believed at the time. What
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: did they mean in the charges by conspiring to hold
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: the boy and his family captive and conspiring to commit
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: extortion and child abduction? So he was they were saying
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: that they brought them to Neverland and that they didn't
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: have a lot of money. Michael Jackson obviously had a
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: ton of money, and that he wouldn't let them leave,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: and he kept saying, Oh, no, just stay here, just
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: stay here. It won't be anything. So the prosecutors had
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: said that he held them captive, and then he would say, oh,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: don't tell anybody because the media will turn all this
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: into something bad, and that is the extortion. The police
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: will look at me and they all think this is
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: bad when this is just something so wonderful at innocent,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: as Michael Jackson always says. Did visury dislike Gavin's mom
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: take a listen to ABCGMA. She would look at the
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: jury and snapper figures and say, you know, this is
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: the way it should be. Yes, that was very expimidating.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Because I was directly Mike and I were directly across
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: from the witnesses, and she would turn right to us
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: like she's just you know, but Melissa, what did that
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: say to you? I mean, apart from how it made
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: your fit, what did that say to you about? What? Who?
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: She wasn't the testimony she gave her testimony. A lot
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: of the parts of her testimony, I wanted to just
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: break out laughing, but I couldn't. You know, her m
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: she was up and down, up and down, and the
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: parts that I felt that she should have been more,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: you know, more emotional about, she wasn't. So it's just
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: not incredible your thing. It's just so hard for me
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: to take in, you know, to Jason Ocean's veteran trial lawyer,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: here's another example. If it doesn't fit, you must have quit.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Forget everything else that has happened in the trial and
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: look at this. And I fully blame the state in
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: that case for allowing the single person most likely to
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: screw up your demonstration in court, the defendant, of course,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: to hand over your evidence to the defendant O J. Simpson.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Of course it didn't fit. Same thing. Here's and Johnny
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Cochrane was a master at it. Look here, not there.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: So Mezzero, who is a great of course he hates
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: my guts, that's obvious, but he's a great child lawyer,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and he got the jury to focus on the victim's
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: mother and what's wrong with her. And this whole thing
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: is a big fact inspiracy. Look at that, not at this.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Don't look at the fact he's sleeping with one boy
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: after the next. Don't look at the fact he gives
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: them wine and his staff has seen him do it.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Forget all that. But look at her. She's all welfare.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: That's what happened. How does it work? It's like a magician, Jason.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: That's exactly the word, Nancy. A little press to digitation,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: a little bit of magic right there. And that as
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: as you said, you know, it was great, great defense
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: work in uh focusing on you know, the victim's mother.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: But but really what it was in many ways is
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: that this jury wanted to be in the show. That's
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: why they were out for what thirteen days, and they
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: enjoyed that. I think they were fascinated the case. Who
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: was probably lost it at jury selection right there, the
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: analysis of who to pick and where within that pool
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: to you know, throw in the black ball and reject
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: those that might give you a hard time. But but
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: this was one right there, and they wanted in on this.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: They were part of it. They believed the story from
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: the beginning, and they convinced themselves not to even think
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: about Michael Jackson and those horrible sexual acts that were committed.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: But they convinced themselves to look elsewhere. And that was
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: the slight of hand. That was the magic. Don't look here,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: here's all the evidence, look over there. It was. It
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: was bad theater for the state, uh and for justice,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: but great theater for Michael Jackson. Well, Freshie Hayks, federal prosecutor.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: He's right. But I've always said, you've won or lost
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: your case by the time you get twelve in the box.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: It's all about jury selection. Of course, you can totally
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: screw it up, or you can do a Hell Mary
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: and win a case after jury selection. But I generally
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: believe it depends on who is on your jury, and
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: in this case, many of the jurars or star struck.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: They had to choose to look at the mom and
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: not the victims. Well, you're right, Nancy, I mean one
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: of the dirty little secrets of trying cases as a
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: state prosecutor. I used to call jury selection weed the wackos,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: because as a state prosecutor, all you have a chance
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to do is get rid of the people you think
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: are going to be a disaster on your jury. It's
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: not really jury selection. You're not picking the jury. You're
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: picking the people you don't want on the jury, and
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: whomever is left are the people that you are stuck with.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: And it is a classic defense tactic. In every single
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: child abuse case, I tried as a state prosecutor to
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: blame whichever non custodial, non non offending caregiver was supporting
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the child, to blame them for the allegations. Was there
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: a divorce pending, was the mother crazy? Did she hate
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: the offender for some reason? This was a revenge play,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: This was all about money. This was just writ large
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: because Michael Jackson was a celebrity. But Mezzo's tactics were
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: recognized by every state prosecutor in every jurisdiction in the
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: country because it was classic tactics to make the jury
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: look at the mother and ignore the actual allegations and
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: the evidence. Time stories with Nancy Grace in the beginning
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: pictures we saw of her when she was did the
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson rebuttaled thing. She had her hair done, she
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: had makeup on, and she was a most attractive woman.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: When she came into court. She looked like mother Teresa
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: after a bad brain, bad meaning meaning she looked drained.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Her hair was straight, she didn't have any makeup, and
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: she was trying to play. She was trying to be
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: pitiful to us. I felt, but but what does this
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: have to do with her son's testimony? I mean, what
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: did you do you worry in any way? Do you
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: worry that how you felt about her in some way
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: influence how you felt about his testimony? Did you feel
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: he was lying? Did you feel the sun was lying? Um?
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I thought he was gonna answer, go ahead and right? Um, yeah,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: there were there were times you could tell, but I
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: mean it all had to go back to the evidence. Wow. Wow,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: So they never really addressed was the sunline? They just
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: beat up on the mom So mid stream Michael jack
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and fires. Not only Mark Garrigos, celebrity lawyer that tried
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: when on a Rider she was convicted, that tried Scott Peterson,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: he was convicted, but Ben Brofman now Ben Broffman. If
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I were in criminal trouble and I had the money,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: that's who I would fire Benjamin Brofman. But out of
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the blue, Michael Jackson says, quote, it's imperative I have
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the full attention of those who were representing me. So
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: he fires Gereghosen Brofman. That suggests to me he thought
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: he was not the center of Brothmann and Gerrighos's world.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: And then he hires Thomas Mezzero. Before Jackson's statement, legal
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: experts speculated his decision was prompted because Garrigos had a
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: conflicting schedule and he was not used to a trial
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: lawyer that had other clients. Jackson wanted a full time lawyer,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: and he thought Mazzero would be a full time lawyer. Now,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: recall he's facing nine felony charges in the illegimalistation of
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: a boy who was then fourteen, and he had pled
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: not guilty. So to you, alexis terrescho waiter online dot com,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: what does it mean he wanted a full time lawyer.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: You cannot be a full time lawyer if you are covering,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: if you are handling Scott Peterson's case which he lost.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: And Michael Jackson's case, but which eventually was one. So
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I'm curious about what else Garret Ghost was handling at
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: the time why he felt that one Scott Peterson's. Yeah,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Scott Peterson who killed his wife Lacy. So Garrett, wait,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: let me, let me get the timeframe. You're telling me
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: the Peterson case and the Jackson case were happening around
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the same time. Correct, Oh my goodness, he was jealous.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: He was jealous of his lawyer. To Joseph Scott Morgan,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: forensics expert, what do you make of any forensics in
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: the case, Uh, yeah, I think that a lot of
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: this goes back to identification. You know, they made a
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: lot about the vitteligo that he had allegedly been diagnosed with,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: you know, identification of his body parts, this sort of thing,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: the color changes and all of this, and so can
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: you specifically identify this body part? And that's that's part
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: of what we do in forensics, you know, this tie
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: back that we have and that puts them in place.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Only these particular witnesses would have information relative to those
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: specific characteristics of that individual. Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalics joining
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: us out of Beverly Hills. We know that the boy
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: victims fingerprints as well as Michael Jackson's fingerprints were found
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: on porn poor magazines in Jackson's home. How do you
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: explain that? Okay, Nancy, to me, that was very compelling evidence.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And I was on your show on HL and the
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: night the verdict came in many years ago in New
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: York City and we actually discussed the jurors and the
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: issue of the magazine with the finger prints on it,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: and what the jurors did not understand is when you molest.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: When a pedophile molest a child, it's not just penetrating
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the child, it's not just fondling the child, but it
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: is also stimulating the child to feel feelings that the
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: child cannot yet handle. So they often hand porn to
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: the child. And this was part of Michael Jackson's offending pattern.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: He would give them the so called Jesus juice, which
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: was the wine, the alcohol, and then he would show
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: them pornography to excite them, and this was sort of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: his foreplay before going on to a full on malization.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: The name of the magazine we're referring to is titled
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Hustler Barely legal hard core Jackson's prints and those of
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: his accuser, the Little Boy, were found on different pages
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: of the magazine, and all twelve prints from Jackson were
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: found on eight different magazines, five prints from the Little
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Boy were found on three magazines, and two prints from
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: the little Boy's younger brother were found on a magazine.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: And it is significant, is it not, Joe Scott Morgan,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: that the prints are found not just on the outside
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: of the magazine, but on the pages inside. Now prosecutors
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: are trying to use the fingerprint evidence to corroborate the
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: boy's testimony earlier in the trial that Jackson had shown
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: them porn while they were there overnight in Jackson's bedroom.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, Joe Scott, the boys fingerprints were on inside
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: pages of porn hard core quote barely legal porn. Yeah,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: and that is significant, Nancy, because you're tying back that child,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: and let's use that word to describe this victim, this
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: child to this pointographic magazine and the fact that he
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: would have placed his hand. You know, when you place
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: your hand onto a surface like these pages here, it's
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: going to leave behind a print that's transferred through the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: oil of our skin. So this is very significant. The
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: police did a very good job with this, because you know,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: getting a print off of a piece of paper is
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: not very easy. They got it just externally and internally.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: So that puts the two there because when you factor
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: that in with the child and as well as Michael
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Jackson touching the same magazine, and you mentioned this even
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: younger child that was there. So how is it possible
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: for the defense to explain away this connectivity within the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: context of the scene. Take a listen to Michael Jackson
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: reportedly owned a collection of child pornography and graphic images
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: of animal sacrifices. This according to a new report. The
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: report comes from Radar Online, which obtained documents from the
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department, the authorities who rated Jackson's
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: the Neverland Ranch after multiple child sex abuse claims. One
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: unnamed and told the documents exposed Jackson as a manipulative
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: drug and sex craze predator who used blood, gore, sexually
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: explicit images of animal sacrifice, and perverse adult sex acts
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: to bend children to his will. Jackson, who was under
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: constant scrutiny from local authorities after multiple child molestation accusations,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: then that they found photographs, books of young boys who
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: were undressed. Not didn't happen, No, not that I know of,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: unless people sent me things that I haven't opened. People.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: People know my love for children, so they seen new
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: books from all over the world. The information published in
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: the Radar Online report was supposedly uncovered when investigators rated
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Jackson's house in two thousand and three following a child
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: molestation accusation. He was not found guilty on all fourteen charges.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace then that they found photographs
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: and books of young boys who were undressed. Not didn't happen, No,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: not that I know of, unless people sent me things
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: that I haven't opened. People sent. People know my love
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: for children, so they sent new books from all over
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the world. The information published in the Radar Online report
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: was supposedly uncovered when investigators rated Jackson's house in two
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: thousand and three following a child molestation accusation. He was
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: felt guilty on all fourteen charges. Two ilex the terrestcha
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: joining us from Radar online dot com. What about it?
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: So yep, we obtained videos of the Santa Barbara Sheriff's
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Department going into Michael Jackson's home. His Neverland Ranch. And
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: this is the raw bodycam footage like this is the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: investigation where they first went into Michael Jackson's house. They
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: go into his house, looked like a hoarder's house. He
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: just stacked high. Like his bedroom. You think of a
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: celebrity bedroom which we see in pictures all the time,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: you know, this beautiful place. No, this was like stacked
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: with magazines, you know, twenty five high all over the room.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: There were videotapes. There was like a secret closet that
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: had little creepy little dolls in it, and all these
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: things that you would think of would be in like
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: a child's room, baby dolls and things like that, but
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: instead they were in a grown man's room. There was pornography.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: There were videos and pictures and magazines as we said,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: you know, of animal sacrifice. And the police found all
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: of this. This is everything the Sheriff's department took in
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: the raid leading up to the trial. This is from
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: two thousand and three when they raided Neverland Ranch, and
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: it was horrifying. They were stunned to find all of
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: these things in his bedroom and in little closets off
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: his bedroom, little secret rooms off of his bedroom and
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: It didn't look like a grown ups bedroom. It looked
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: like a creepy horder's den, sex den tortured in. We
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: also know that the hallway leading to Jackson's bedroom was
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: a serious security zone. It had was wired for video
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: and sound so that Jackson would know if anyone approached
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: his bedroom door. There would be ding dong sounds that
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: would erupt in his room if anyone came near his door.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you how this little boy r Viso
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: met Gavin Arvizo meets Jackson and what role does another witness,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Martin Basher play in this. So Gavin had cancer and
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson actually found him. He had found that this
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: family had was a little boy who was suffer him
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: from cancer and had no money at all. So he
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: started reaching out to him and he started giving him
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: gifts and sending the money and then he eventually flew
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: them out to California brought him to Neverland Ranch. The
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: thing is Martin Basher is a very famous British documentary
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: and he does lots of videos over the years exposs
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: about celebrities, and they got in contact and he did
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: the interview with Gavin's family and Gavin's mom and how,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: and they spoke for the first time about Michael Jackson
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: sexually assaulting Gavin. So this child cancer victim is the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: one that testifies at trial, and it is his mother
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: that the jury seemingly focuses on and hates. Now, the
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: documentary Living with Michael Jackson, and that was by Martin
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Basher catches Jackson inviting Our Viso to be part of
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: his documentary. Jackson and Our Viso were saying holding hands
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: and Basher asked Jackson in the documentary about the approacheness
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: of a grown man having sleepovers and sleeping with a
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: little boy, and he insisted that it was not sexual.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: So what was different? Years later, in Leaving Neverland, Alexis Rzchuck,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: So these were different people. Gavin has never again spoken
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: after the trial. Despite repeated attempts, no one has been
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: able to get him to speak. However, twenty years later,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Wade Robinson and James Safecheck both spoke out about Michael
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Jackson for leaving Neverland and they detailed the abuse that
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: they had And the thing was, Wade said, I testified
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: against Gavin and for Michael Jackson in two thousand and five.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I stood on the stand. I was so confident. I
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: looked right at Michael Jackson and I said that he
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: never molested me, that I never saw him do anything.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: And he says, I lied. I lied for Michael Jackson
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: for all of these years. I felt like I had to,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: and I am now telling the truth. And James said
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: the same thing, that he had lied for decades about
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the abuse. But that they finally realize, you know, they've
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: grown up, They've got you know, when James has children.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: They Wade says, I just couldn't keep up the lie
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: any longer. Take a listen to our friends at PBS,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: John Yang. Because Wade was an adult when he testified
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: in Jackson's favor in two thousand Because Wade was an
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: adult when he testified in Jackson's favor in two thousand
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: and five too in the criminal trial. The reason why
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Wade changed his story, and that's what it looks like.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: And I can understand why people query that that story
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: of Wade's awakening is the story of the film. That's
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you know, it takes four hours to unpack that, and
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: when you reduce it to its simplest, you know, Wade
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: as a child and as a victim of Michael Jackson
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: formed a deeper chat attachment to his abuser. He fell
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: in love with Michael, and that relationship shaped his teenage years,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: in his adult life up to, you know, until he's
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: mid twenties. So he's twenty two. He stands up in
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: court and he knocks it out the park in defense
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: of Michael, and you know, his defense witness number one
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: and probably one of the important reasons why Michael was
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: acquitted of the child sexual abuse charges against a thirteen
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: year old Gavin Arvizo. Why did he change his mind
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: while he didn't want his mentor the man that he'd
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: been in a sexual relationship with, his idol, you know,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: man he really admired, He didn't want him go to jail,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: and so he lied. And then it wasn't under a
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: few sort of a few years later that he had
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: a child in his own, He had a young son,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: and he describes the moment when he looks at his
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: son and he imagines Michael doing to his son the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: things that Michael did to him to Wade as a
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: seven year old, and becomes enraged and you know, can't
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: stand the thought. And then that that prompts him to
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: look deeper into the way he thought about his own
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: relationship with Michael, and that's when he started beginning to
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: consider it as abuse, because up to that point it
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: was just like a special relationship with Michael that that
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: has had a sexual component, but was also about a
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: bunch of other things and was deep emotional attachment and
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: of course way Robinson testified at Jackson's trial as the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: first defense witness that he had stayed over in Jackson's
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: bedroom many times but had never been molested. Okay, he
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: says he slept in Jackson's bedroom on all but three
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: or four of twenty visits. They played video games, watched movies,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: and had pillow sights. Well, that's not what he said
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: in the documentary. We even hear at trial from child's
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: starr of Home Alone Mcaulay Culkin to Alexa Terrestio. What
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: did Colkin say at trial? The same thing. Michael was
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: his friend, they hung out, Michael didn't do anything to him.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: That he was just a mentor, an older person who
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: had a childlike appreciation for him. Take a listen to
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: this rebuttal video from the r VS Family. My children
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: and me know what rejection is to be neglected to
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: be spit on, to be talked about, to be made
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: an outsider only because of our status in life or
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: what we were going through. And Michael did not have that.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: He said, come to him, not just Gavin, but starring
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Davlin and me and called us his family. And Gavin
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: was the one that asked him, could I call you daddy?
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm seven years old, Michael asked,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: do you and the family want to come to Neverland?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: We'd drive in and forget about all your problems. You
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: were in Neverland. It was a fantasy, a storybook, right,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I'm a fairy tale. Hello, Wade, today is your birthday,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: so congratulations. I love you. Go by. There's no thoughts
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: of this is wrong or anything like that. He told me.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: If they ever found out what we were doing, he
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: and I would go to jail for the rest of
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: our lives. Secrets will eat you up. You feel so alone.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I want to be able to speak the truth as
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: loud as I had to speak the lie for so long.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: You are hearing Leaving Neverland the documentary to Phrasie Heiggs,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: why do children lie for their molesters? Well, Nancy, and
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: is a really complicated issue. I mean, it's all tied
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: up in the feelings that the children describe of love.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: They believe at the time that they love their offender,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: and so they are willing to support whatever the offender
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: asked them to do. And can I also say, Nancy,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I have always been very, very angry as a prosecutor
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: over this evidence of Macaulay Culkin and Wade Robson testifying
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: at the Arvizu Jackson trial that Michael Jackson did not
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: molest them. I have to say, in our own home
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: state of Georgia, that evidence would have never been allowed because, Nancy,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: it is wholly irrelevant. Let's take it as example in
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: a bank robbery case. In what bank robbery case have
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: you ever heard of a bank robbers defense being oh,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't rob that bank because I didn't rob the
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: other one on the corner the day before. It's never admissible.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: It is not relevant whether or not the defendant molested X,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Y and Z. It's only relevant whether he molested the
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: child in the indictment. And so it's one more example
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: where California being crazy pro defendant and being allowed to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: tell a jury evidence that is wholly irrelevant just because
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: someone didn't left every child he ever came in contact
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: with doesn't mean he didn't molest the child at issue.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: And I think that was one of the most powerful
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: pieces of evidence the jury heard, was this, the fact
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: that he didn't molest these other two and therefore they
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: were willing to believe that that meant he couldn't be
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: a child molester. And that is just dead raw. So
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: at this point, that license to Reschuck, why do you
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: believe that it took a documentary out of Hollywood to
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: convince the world that Jackson was in fact a molester.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I think times have changed, I really do. And I
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: think that people now that Michael Jackson has been dead
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: for ten years. It was ten years when the movie
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: came out, that they finally realized that the made this star,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: the shine has worn off, and that they believe these
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: people because these two men were so credible, they were
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: so honest, They really were so raw in telling this.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: And I think that when people appreciate when someone tells
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: the truth with you know what, I lied, and I
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: think so many people can recognize that why they lied
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: and that they were snowed by him. Because Michael Jackson's
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: star has faded. And yes, his music has sold, you know,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: four hundred million dollars since he died, But there have
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: been no other positive stories that have come out about
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: him in those ten years. Nobody's come forward and said,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: here's all these great things that he did for me
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: when I was young. No, everything that has come out
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: since then has been bad. And I think that people
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: were finally ready to see the truth and it's terrible,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: and I think that unfortunately sometimes it does take the
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: power of Hollywood because you have to see it. The
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: trial is different. Not everybody, you know, people didn't watch
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: it every day, and it's been so long, But to
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: see it in a movie for him and where you
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: can watch it, you know, in your own home and
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: you can be able to be vulnerable and to see
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: this it makes a very powerful impact on you. And
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: that's the power of Hollywood. And it protected Michael Jackson
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: for so long, and now it's finally revealing what really
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: did happen. People were ready to daughter, Bethany Marshall, do
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: you remember all the hate mail, the emails, the threats
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I and maybe you would get during the Michael Jackson
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: coverage when I would suggest, when I would say he's guilty.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: He did it. Nancy, I remember that clearly, and I
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: think Alexis tres Chuck is so correct when she says, basically,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: it was a different era back then, everybody rallied around
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson. They've vilified these boys, they've vilified the families,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: and what they didn't realize is that the reason victims
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: lie for the perpetrator, and there are two basic reasons.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: One is, remember Michael Jackson showed the pornography to the children.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: He aroused these boys sexually. That was a part of
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: the offending pattern because because they were aroused, they felt
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: that it was their fault. Because they felt it was
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: their fault, they felt guilty and ashamed, and then they lied.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: The other thing is that Michael Jackson is also what
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: we call an interpersonal offender. Not only did he offend sexually,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: but he offended psychologically by brainwashing these boys and developing
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: very powerful bonds with them, much like priests did with
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: boys in the Catholic Church. I have treated adults who
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: were sexually molested by priests, who felt guilty and protected
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: the priests for years and years and years, well into
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: their fifties and sixties because they felt guilty about coming out.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: So yes, this was a whole ethos back then that
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson was great, he could never do anything bad.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: The boys were terrible, the mother was terrible. And you know,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: the times have changed, Nancy, you would not get the
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: hate mail now that you got back then. I don't
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: know about that. My question now is Jason Ohans has
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: so much time having passed, is there anything that then
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: child victims can do now? In terms of obviously, once
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: the defendant is dead, that ends all criminal aspects, much
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: like an epstein. But the estate has a lot of money,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I mean to the extent that they could be held
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: liable now in some way, California's statutory laws sometimes can
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: be affording the opportunity to go after any royalties or
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: when they became known or uh, you know, to the estate.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: That might be the place, since it is quite wealthy
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: and it's done exceedingly well since his death. But as
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: far as any other criminal acts, if there were any
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: people that were complicit, I do believe statute of limitations
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: has passed on that. What about it, Francy? I agree
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: with that, Nancy. I think civil remedies are the only
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: option open to victims now, Alexis is there any way
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: that they can sue now? As a statute passed civilly
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: as well? I mean it's not indefinite on a civil lawsuit.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I mean you have to bring it with in a
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: certain period of time. We just changed the law in California.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Oh good will that be retroactive? I believe it can be.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Corey Feldman actually has been very active in this and
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: he was very prominent in getting a law path that
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: will help victims well. Alexis Terres Chuck is right. Michael
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Jackson's sex abuse accusers can now sue his companies. Following
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: a court appeal, two guys who accused Jackson of sex
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: assaulting them as children in the documentary Leaving Neverland can
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: now sue. This is after a ruling made in California
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Justice past Friday. It's Wade Robson and James's Safe Chuck
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: tried to file a lawsuit in twenty fourteen. The case
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: thrown out because the statute of limitations that Jason Oceans
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: had described barring child sex assault accusers for filling claims
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: after their twenty sixth birthday. But now the age limit
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: has been raised to forty and a Court of Appeals
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: has granted Robson and safe Check permission to go ahead
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: and sue. Changes in California law mean both of these
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: men can now sue the Jackson estate. We wait as
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime story, signing off Goodbye friend,