Latest / The Bow Disciples Podcast / Bowtech & MFJJ podcast drama | Archery is WHACK w/ Greg Poole

Transcript

Bowtech & MFJJ podcast drama | Archery is WHACK w/ Greg Poole · The Bow Disciples Podcast

• 0:00
  We are back for another Boat Disciples podcast episode on a
• 0:03
  different location. We're not in our home studio or
• 0:07
  whole home turf. We are with a special guest up
• 0:11
  here in a brand new state that you've never been to.
• 0:13
  The great state unlocked. New state unlocked.
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  The great state of Oregon. Great's a strong word, but this
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  town is great. Right fair, right.
• 0:23
  Fair play. And, and our guest is a guy who
• 0:27
  I had met briefly back in 2024 at Total Archery Challenge Utah.
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  Same time I met Mr. Bomar and his wife and you and David.
• 0:37
  I met you all at the same time, at the same place.
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  But Greg and I, it was funny because I was so focused on
• 0:43
  shooting against Josh that I didn't really, we never really
• 0:47
  talked. We just saw each.
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  Not really because I was tunnel. I was just focused on what I was
• 0:51
  doing. But I remembered after and I was
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  like, oh, you know, I have met that.
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  We have met briefly, but we got Greg Poole here friggins.
• 0:59
  Going on, guys. Legend, dude.
• 1:01
  Well, I don't know, it's not ruin a good thing, but I've been
• 1:05
  around for a minute and I've I've, I've been blessed and
• 1:09
  fortunate in the industry and met good people.
• 1:10
  So it's good to have you guys up here.
• 1:13
  Well, I appreciate us being up here and the invite, but let's
• 1:18
  talk and Mike and Mike, I love Mike this.
• 1:21
  Mike is Mike is the center of the world, I suppose.
• 1:24
  He is. He is.
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  He wants to be involved in the pod, which I'm here for.
• 1:27
  Yeah. But OK, so we came up primarily
• 1:31
  to film content for a couple of days, yes.
• 1:34
  And we didn't really have a set plan on what we wanted to film,
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  but we knew we wanted to do something arrow wise because you
• 1:44
  FaceTime me and said your arrows are not good for what you're
• 1:48
  doing. And you weren't saying the
• 1:49
  victories were bad, right, Or the veins were bad.
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  You were saying the way you have them set up is not good.
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  It could be better. Your build is not.
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  Your build is not optimized, yes.
• 1:58
  OK. And you said you're going to
• 2:01
  have the shots that are Flyers right now will be reduced a lot
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  if we do certain things. So let's just kind of start
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  there and walk through. Obviously there's full videos on
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  the main boat Disciples channel. People go watch those to get in
• 2:14
  depth. But just kind of briefly run
• 2:16
  over what you saw that was wrong in the first arrow and just.
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  With. 2 minute version of what we did to get it to where it is
• 2:24
  now. Yeah.
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  So I mean, look, this is not a, this is not a product issue.
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  This is not a a point or a arrow or a.
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  So whatever your it's not any of those issues.
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  It was literally just a construction of build issue.
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  And so I had seen some of the content that you were putting
• 2:41
  out and got got to look at some things.
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  I immediately thought you were under veined.
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  And so I shot you a call. We jumped on a FaceTime and I'm
• 2:49
  like, hey, man, how long is that arrow?
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  How many, how much point weight, blah, blah, blah, And then show
• 2:53
  me the veins and show me how much offset you had.
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  And after all, my civil war LAR ping no offset smooth bore
• 3:01
  jokes. We.
• 3:02
  Haven't civil war lark. I've I've definitely definitely
• 3:06
  not civil war Larped. I've LARPD.
• 3:08
  It's not for civil war. Hey, if you want to open the
• 3:14
  door about role-playing we can get there.
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  But, but and so on. The Patreon channel.
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  Right. And so, you know, and look, and
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  here here's the important thing that I want people to know is
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  like, there is nothing wrong with like you going to your
• 3:30
  local pro shop and being like, hey, I want you to build me
• 3:32
  these. They're going to build you those
• 3:35
  how they do it. And if that particular shop is
• 3:38
  not a hardcore target archery shop that has people like myself
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  to tell them things that for a lot of folks might be
• 3:46
  counterintuitive, like offset on the veins or the size of vein,
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  because it is kind of counterintuitive if you're not
• 3:53
  into. Well, we're back.
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  Brief hiatus. What were we on?
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  Greg was just finishing talking about the friggin adding the
• 4:00
  rifling. Oh, you had asked me how I
• 4:04
  thought. Yeah, how of it?
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  How do you think it's been explaining that?
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  I recently started to endeavor back into the world of arrow
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  building and it's just a whole nother level.
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  And what's crazy about it is it's so sounds so stupid, but
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  simple, you know, it's, it's not rocket science.
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  It's just a couple extra checks of different things that you
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  probably don't check. You know, as much as like that
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  little thing you were, I don't know what it's called thing
• 4:38
  you're weighing them or not weighing.
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  I don't know what the heck it was, but some of them are some
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  fouls. Oh yes, though the the the ram
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  arrow spine checker to check straightness in the metal on the
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  ends to put a gauge on the inside to check the ID run out
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  and Oh yeah, all of that. Just, you know, extra little
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  things that if you're going to, you kind of had told a story
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  yesterday about like parents who go out of their way to take
• 5:06
  their kids to these events and spend.
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  I mean, you're reaching the thousands when you're talking
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  about travel, the flights, the hotels, the registration costs,
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  the equipment, their food while they're there, all, all of it.
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  And it's like, why not, if you're going to spend that much
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  just to go, why not put those extra little steps in?
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  Why not just you maybe buy that, you know, say luck and buy that
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  one extra tool to check that extra step.
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  If you're going to make this a habit and a hobby, why not go
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  that that extra mile? And it was those simple little
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  things on top of on top of things that we don't have, which
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  is the knowledge. But like, I wouldn't run that
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  short of a fletch, you know, a vein.
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  I would go to whatever we you went with.
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  I don't 44 inches yes, look at me go.
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  I paid attention guys, and that stuff you can't get without
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  getting out there and talking to people who do this or have done
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  this for a living. That comes with conversations
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  with, you know, just all of it. And so it was it was very
• 6:12
  intriguing to watch. That's also intriguing to see.
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  James says he ventures down the road of doing more and more of
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  his own work on his his both that we can now take home with
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  us. It's like, yeah, he'll use these
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  arrows for forever, but we got 20 threes for an outdoor that we
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  need to build now. And so taking that knowledge and
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  figuring out how to put more of a helical on my bits and burger
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  and maybe getting those extra tools that you showed me.
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  So it was. It was very intriguing.
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  Well, I mean, so to answer your question is you don't know what
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  you don't know, and you don't know until you realize you don't
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  know, and you don't know until someone who does know tells you.
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  Yeah. And so, you know, as far as all
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  the tools go and all that stuff, that's all accumulated.
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  You know, I didn't come into this in 99 knowing all that.
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  And so I had people, especially here in Klamath Falls, Alan
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  Roddick and Bob Gentry and Tom Neely and Cave Johnson up in
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  Eugene at Spot Hog. And so like I had people that
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  kind of helped me and got me rolling.
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  And then of course, it was a freaking rolling dumpster fire
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  since then. And then I went down every
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  rabbit hole you could possibly imagine.
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  But you know, it's like if you think of, and I've used this
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  analogy before, a guy will go out to go shoot his rifle and
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  he'll go down and he'll buy the best ammunition he can buy,
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  whether it's Federal or Hornaday or Barnes or Nosler or whatever.
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  And he'll go out there and think he's shitting the high cotton.
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  And then he'll go to the range with a guy that shooting shit at
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  a mile. And he's not buying his
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  ammunition at at any store. He's building it himself.
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  Every grain of powder matters. Every bullet is like everything.
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  It's just different. And so for me, the whole idea
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  and the whole idea of of talking to James prior to this was, and
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  I literally told him this, we can build you a better bullet
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  period. And if you're shooting, you
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  know, if you're going to, if you want to shoot certain scores,
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  you're not doing that with arrows that are not built to do
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  it, you know, talent, talent aside.
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  And so, you know, for me, it's just a matter of utilizing not
• 8:36
  just the arrow building skills, but the bow tuning skills and
• 8:40
  all of that to and all of that is just to allow James to do
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  what James is capable of doing. That's it.
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  I mean it's crazy to Tao immediate of a difference it
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  made and granted we did more than just the arrows.
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  Like I said, the videos will show more on the main channel,
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  but like I told you is like I never felt on any of the 10
• 9:06
  rounds I've shot prior that I was not good enough to shoot a
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  300. I was actually like, how have I
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  not shot one of these yet? How are all these are all two
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  points short? But and then when we went and
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  shot today, I think I shot 17 straight of, you know, clean
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  rounds ish, not all X's. But the difference was not my
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  shooting, if that makes sense. I felt like my shooting was the
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  same. I felt the whole time I was
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  capable of hitting better than what the results were, and now
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  that we've done these changes, I feel like the results is more in
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  line with how I feel the result should be with how I'm feeling
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  shooting correct. You improve the accuracy and by
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  you I mean Greg, it improved the accuracy of your equipment.
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  So you know, you didn't learn some trick overnight.
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  You know of like your hand position or your you know
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  nothing. Well, I mean, we didn't change.
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  I mean this is something that is I think is going to be key for
• 10:09
  people. We didn't change your draw
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  length. We didn't change your loop
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  length. I'll get to the loop change I
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  made, but we didn't change your loop length.
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  We didn't change your peep height.
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  We didn't change your bow hand. We didn't change your let off.
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  We didn't change your draw. We didn't change hardly anything
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  except for tuning mechanisms and anyone that's ever came here to
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  work with me, that's impressive because normally there's draw
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  length issues, there's peep height issues, there's and you
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  had you had none of that. And so took, you know, to come
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  here and build 6 arrows like we did make the changes to your
• 10:48
  bow. We did.
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  We didn't change anything fit wise.
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  All we change. Let's just get into it now.
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  So on your D loop knock point setup, when I started to look at
• 11:03
  that, it was anyway sub optimal. It was not.
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  It was not optimized for for high performance.
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  You had like and he didn't do it folks.
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  But you know, you had like 6 tied for for a knock set.
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  You had like 6 above and like 3 below.
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  And I was like what what the fuck what, what is this?
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  This is 1. It's totally backwards and #2
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  unless you need to, you don't need 2 knock sets.
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  Generally speaking, just one on the bottom is sufficient.
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  Now, there are circumstances where you can run into certain
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  knock travel issues, certain things where tying a small one
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  above can help with some inconsistencies.
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  You don't have that. All I did was cut that giant
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  chode of of knocks that you had above your knock, move the loop
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  down till you got a good fit. And everything else I did was
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  move your rest and move your cams.
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  That's it. It's literally it.
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  Well, I'm built. Building the arrows is a whole
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  nother matter. But yeah, we didn't change
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  anything with the fit, the fitment of the bow, which is
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  huge. I mean, and we didn't even
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  address holding. We didn't mess with stabilizers.
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  We didn't like it was. Yeah.
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  And so that's that's part of The thing is like you don't see, you
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  know, Hussein Bolt running nine second 100 yard dashes and
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  hunting boots. There's a reason for that.
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  Yeah, you need the right tool to do.
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  You put the, you know, you put a hunting boot on the fastest guy
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  in the world, he won't even be a top 1000 in the world.
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  He's got to have the right setup and the talent.
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  You got to have both things and I don't, I don't know, it's,
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  it's crazy the differences to that.
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  I've noticed it's made and I can't wait to get home and shoot
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  a lot, which I am going to hold myself to making the drive to
• 13:02
  the range and shooting at least every other day, which is way,
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  way, way more than I've been shooting that row.
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  So but yeah, I mean, even today in the the one legit round we
• 13:15
  did for score, which is 322 acts, I made what I would call
• 13:19
  two shots that I felt were not very good and one was X and 1
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  was just out of the X correct. So I think that right there goes
• 13:28
  to show how the new setup is far more forgiving than what my
• 13:34
  prior setup was, no question. And the you know, we went to the
• 13:38
  four inch boning Bronco veins, but the arrows stayed the same.
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  The Victory V TAC20 Sevens yeah, we did a drop point weight sort
• 13:46
  of on accident, but it seems to be pounding, so just let it fly
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  200. Grains, by the way. 200 grains,
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  Yeah, and total air weight was about 575, I believe.
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  But here's the deal. I'm going to change gears here.
• 14:00
  Greg is. I'm changing a touch but not
• 14:04
  quite so I was going to say I don't want to rush out of the
• 14:07
  subject but. These two are hilarious, by the
• 14:09
  way, for those these two hilarious good.
• 14:13
  Yeah, buddy. Yes.
• 14:15
  I love it. So he's talked to you about how
• 14:19
  he's doing like indoor and outdoor and his reasonings
• 14:21
  behind and whatnot. So very similar to how you just
• 14:25
  made a similar ish. I guess, you know, tuning
• 14:31
  changes essentially and and build changes, but not fit men
• 14:34
  or anything with indoor with outdoor.
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  He had just done his first, not his first because we've done
• 14:42
  this tournament a couple years in a row now, but in this whole
• 14:46
  series to shooting more competitions.
• 14:50
  I guess you could say his first outdoor 1.
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  He won the Arizona triple cap crown in Yuma, but he did it
• 14:59
  with his so he switched overs proven, which is also meant to
• 15:04
  be a target rig as well as a hunting rig.
• 15:08
  Put on bars, stabilizer bars for the words I want.
• 15:16
  But outside of that, he did it with essentially his hunting
• 15:19
  arrows. He has a sliced string from a
• 15:24
  broad head, a beast broad I. Got a new guest string right?
• 15:27
  But he's going to get it changed.
• 15:28
  I already did new Stringer. Yeah.
• 15:31
  But what would your opinions, because we were debating this
• 15:34
  for like getting it prepped for the next final preps for the
• 15:39
  next part of the series is we he's Hendenhod.
• 15:43
  We've Hendenhod on putting a lens in his outdoor rig.
• 15:50
  And just now that you've gotten over the last two days to see
• 15:54
  his his shooting and whatnot, I guess I would just want to know
• 15:58
  your opinions on changes or upgrades mostly to like the lens
• 16:04
  and combo for an outdoor rig for him.
• 16:09
  Because in his score, he had like I could have counted 4
• 16:15
  right off the top of my head, 10s lens and and moving to the
• 16:20
  VTAC 20 threes. I guess your opinion.
• 16:23
  I knew 4 right off the top of my head.
• 16:25
  At the end of the day, that would have been twelves had he
• 16:28
  been shooting the 20 threes. Then we haven't addressed the
• 16:32
  build of the 20 threes with that paired with the lens, quite a
• 16:38
  few, not quite a few. Like it couldn't compare to
• 16:40
  normal people compared to James because I don't consider him
• 16:44
  normal eights if he had had a lens.
• 16:49
  Do you think that paired with a proper arrow build would just
• 16:53
  like it did with indoor suction in those those eights to a lot
• 16:59
  more 10's and twelves? What sort of an aiming
• 17:03
  reference? He wasn't using that giant
• 17:05
  monstrosity of a lit up dot that he was shooting indoors, right?
• 17:09
  No, I shooting the dual track black gold.
• 17:13
  So it's basically a single pin on a rail vertical single pin
• 17:15
  and it's I run a .1 OS. I like a very small.
• 17:18
  Boat, so yes, that's bueno indoors and I didn't know this
• 17:24
  until the end of the day today folks.
• 17:26
  Dudes running an 8 power indoors.
• 17:30
  I don't have enough. I don't have enough lead in my
• 17:32
  pencil for that. So seeing that you're running an
• 17:36
  8 power indoors with that, the answer to your question combined
• 17:39
  with his fiber size 100% now with that being yes, 100% you,
• 17:48
  you you would have the the only other caveat to that is the same
• 17:52
  thing I told him is you can say that, but it's not it's not in a
• 17:58
  vacuum. So going to a 23 diameter arrow
• 18:02
  outdoors, any wind on that thing at any distance, yeah, you're
• 18:09
  you're going to need to learn that game.
• 18:11
  So his hunting arrow was probably a four or 5mm.
• 18:14
  Yeah. 2O2O four. Yeah, so, so 5 mill.
• 18:19
  Comes with its cons for sure. 100% and the reason you'll see
• 18:23
  like a Levi Morgan shoot a big fatty fat fat at an ASA is one
• 18:29
  thing, but then when you if you see him show up and it's windy,
• 18:33
  he's not shooting those. He'll go to a legitimate, you
• 18:37
  know, 5 millimeter 6mm shaft of his.
• 18:41
  Is he just making that change? Like I think about it like he
• 18:47
  has a tape that's set for those arrows and bow that's dialed
• 18:52
  into those arrows. Is he just full on like saying,
• 18:57
  Oh, Nope, I'm going to grab this bow that's tuned for these
• 18:59
  arrows. Is he like on the spot just
• 19:01
  retuning that bow and putting on a new tape and just to match
• 19:05
  those arrows because it. Generally that, yeah, yeah.
• 19:07
  These people are just nuts. No, they're pros and so and, and
• 19:13
  Levi is a, Levi is a goat. And So what he's going to learn
• 19:18
  is he can go out there with his 4,000,004mm shaft and yes, you
• 19:21
  can have a site for, you can have a site tape for up and
• 19:23
  down. There's no site tape for left
• 19:26
  and so. That would be cool though.
• 19:28
  Yeah, I mean depending, it's going to be all weather
• 19:32
  dependent. If he goes out there and shoots
• 19:34
  out to 50-60 yards, what's the Max 60 with a 23 and there's no
• 19:40
  wind. I mean, he's he's going to love
• 19:43
  shooting those. If there's a little bit of wind,
• 19:46
  he's going to be sitting there going fuck, I wish I had my wish
• 19:50
  I had my 5mm simply for the wind drift because that's a variable
• 19:54
  that is much harder to account for than up and down.
• 19:57
  And so he's just going to have to learn that through
• 19:59
  experience. He may go out there the first
• 20:00
  time with 20 threes and come off of day one and say I am never
• 20:04
  shooting these again. That very interest.
• 20:08
  Because. That might have never shot those
• 20:09
  in a competition before. It's always been hunting arrows.
• 20:12
  I call them hunting arrows, but you know, the smaller arrows.
• 20:15
  And so I'm, I'm very interested to see this next shoot and not,
• 20:22
  not how it goes because again, we've talked about that.
• 20:24
  It's like you don't give 2 flying FS how it goes.
• 20:27
  You know, whether you win, you lose, you come in 3rd, whatever.
• 20:30
  I definitely want to win. I know you do, yeah.
• 20:32
  You're competitive human. Like, that's not the aspect of
• 20:35
  the video. It's all like seeing what he can
• 20:38
  do and like how to make it happen.
• 20:45
  It's just how I'm very interested to see his reaction
• 20:48
  to these arrows and having the whole setup dialed and see if he
• 20:53
  likes it or if he wants the whole setup but still wants the.
• 20:57
  Well, and there there's also the consideration of total.
• 21:00
  You know, what's the total arrow weight between the hunting arrow
• 21:02
  you were using on the 20 threes? Are they going to weigh the
• 21:05
  exact same? If they weigh the exact same,
• 21:07
  the tapes not going to be the exact same because just the wind
• 21:10
  drag. No, no wind left or right, just
• 21:13
  the standard drag of the arrow on a 23 compared to a 5mm.
• 21:19
  You're not going to run the same tape because of, you know, if
• 21:22
  there was arrows where the if those arrows weigh the exact
• 21:24
  same, the bigger arrow is going to slow down faster.
• 21:28
  Yeah, more drag. More drag.
• 21:30
  Luckily I've been doing all my tapes for my buddy.
• 21:34
  Shout out to Joey. He's been doing them with the
• 21:35
  Precision Cup program and it is very good.
• 21:38
  Oh man, have I been impressed. I've been so impressed.
• 21:41
  But yeah, I don't know, I mean, maybe I shouldn't switch to the
• 21:44
  20 threes, but I I want to give it a shot and and see and then
• 21:49
  from there make a decision if I want to go back to the because I
• 21:52
  shoot the two O 4 is great, but could I be better?
• 21:55
  Maybe so. And I'm going to get a 4X lens.
• 21:58
  Well. I was just going to say you're
• 21:59
  certainly not going to shoot an 8 power out there.
• 22:01
  No, I'm going to do a four. Paige does, but yeah, she
• 22:04
  doesn't count. Well, the reason I'm going to do
• 22:06
  a four is because the black gold dual track, you can only do A2
• 22:11
  or A4. So I'm going to do a four and
• 22:13
  OK, how I like it and yeah, I'm super excited, but OK, here's
• 22:18
  here's what I want to get into. OK, I'm loving this.
• 22:21
  By the way, Brianna's fired up the coffee daughter's very.
• 22:23
  Chatty person on podcast. She is.
• 22:26
  She's a Energizer Bunny, and the coffee's got her zip.
• 22:28
  And for the record, we went to the human being today and these
• 22:30
  two wanted to bring 5 gallon buckets to get their coffees, so
• 22:34
  32 oz was all they could handle. Yeah.
• 22:37
  Anyway, go ahead. Yeah.
• 22:39
  So Greg has sort of built this reputation, I would say recently
• 22:44
  of being kind of the controversial guy a little bit.
• 22:47
  Like you'll say whatever on, you know, podium Archer podcast or
• 22:51
  on cams like you don't sugarcoat stuff.
• 22:54
  So I'm curious what is I'm going to ask 2 questions one at a time
• 22:59
  though. What is the wackest thing in
• 23:03
  like the archery space right now in your view?
• 23:05
  Like the goofiest thing happening.
• 23:13
  Probably the goofiest thing happening right now that that I
• 23:19
  can think of. That's not, but it's not even
• 23:21
  new. It's just finally now coming to
• 23:25
  light. Two things.
• 23:29
  This is what's not going to be popular #1 there's one and one a
• 23:34
  they're, they're equal. But the first one is the number
• 23:38
  of tournament Archers that wear shooter shooters jerseys.
• 23:42
  Well, I do like that. One, knock it the fuck off.
• 23:47
  I'm sorry. When you when you go to some of
• 23:51
  these events, not all of these events do 75% of the people are
• 23:56
  wearing shooters jerseys. That doesn't make us look good.
• 24:02
  You having 37 different logos, Like I see people wearing
• 24:07
  shooters jerseys for archery shops and it has three bow
• 24:10
  company logos on it. What do you think you're
• 24:13
  promoting? Because that's part of the
• 24:15
  problem is everyone's like, yeah, everyone's all pro staff,
• 24:18
  pro staff, pro staff. It's not professional staff,
• 24:22
  it's promotional staff. And when every single person out
• 24:26
  there damn near is wearing a shooting shooter's jersey, it
• 24:30
  dilutes it. And then wearing a shooter's
• 24:32
  jersey when you're Bodhi Turner or Mathias Fullerton, you just
• 24:36
  blend in They. Look like everyone else.
• 24:38
  Exactly. I do give credit to now,
• 24:41
  obviously, you know, Bo tech is going to be, you know, right now
• 24:45
  they got page and they're going to be hopefully rebuilding some
• 24:48
  stuff there. So I don't, but I give Hoyt some
• 24:51
  credit that you know, and that's probably a Zach and a Brian Gold
• 24:55
  and A and a Steve Anderson. Steve Anderson issue.
• 24:58
  There's no mistaking the difference between the Hoyt
• 25:02
  Professional, Real, the Top Dog jerseys and the others.
• 25:08
  You can't mistake them. So they have two different
• 25:10
  levels of. Jersey yeah, you and unless
• 25:12
  you're unless you're him or her, you don't get that jersey.
• 25:16
  And I'm all about it. So I think that we as a
• 25:20
  community, and it's the companies, it's the shooters,
• 25:22
  it's the it's everybody like we all have to conclude ourself in
• 25:25
  it. There's too many goddamn people
• 25:27
  at Advanced walking around and shooting jerseys and it makes
• 25:29
  people that don't know any better think they're better than
• 25:32
  they are. Like you see a guy in the
• 25:34
  shooters, you're like, man, that that that dude must that dude
• 25:38
  must be able to shoot. And he shoots arrows in the air
• 25:41
  and they don't hit the ground. Oh, I've shot with those guys.
• 25:44
  I'm telling you and it just is a disservice to us.
• 25:46
  So that's one. The the other thing right now is
• 25:51
  balancing it and it's a marketing thing is and I and I
• 25:57
  mentioned that I've mentioned this before.
• 26:00
  So this is not new. It's just not popular.
• 26:02
  But a lot of the marketing people we have in our space
• 26:05
  don't really understand the marketing side of what we do.
• 26:09
  Marketing in the outdoor industry is not the same as
• 26:12
  marketing in tennis or golf or UFC or or any of that.
• 26:16
  We're a different crowd, not always in a good way.
• 26:20
  I say we because we have to describe it as we.
• 26:23
  And so for me, one of the other goofy things I think is
• 26:26
  happening right now, We got through the look, man.
• 26:31
  Sex cells. I get it, I get it.
• 26:34
  Sex cells. Carl's Junior Hamburgers, for
• 26:37
  Christ's sake. Well, I love those commercials.
• 26:39
  I'm telling you. Car wash commercial come.
• 26:40
  On baby right and I'm just so that's.
• 26:42
  Just no one right off the top. Right, and that's just the way
• 26:45
  of the world. Nothing's going to change.
• 26:47
  So in archery, when some smoking hot chick comes out, not showing
• 26:51
  her butt hole or nothing, just no, only fans shit.
• 26:54
  But when a smoking hot chick is in a well fitting pair of jeans,
• 26:58
  in a well fitting shirt and she's shooting a bow, people are
• 27:03
  going to look at her. And so companies are going to
• 27:05
  want people looking at her holding their equipment.
• 27:10
  That's normal. The problem we have is called
• 27:13
  conversion. People aren't going to
• 27:17
  necessarily buy it just because said smoking hot person is using
• 27:23
  it. What happens in our industry, it
• 27:26
  doesn't work for Carl's like Carl's Junior and Ford and music
• 27:30
  videos and you know, shampoo and colognes.
• 27:36
  I mean, when I see, I don't know if this is real, this is
• 27:40
  hyperbole, but when I see Brad Pitt with no shirt on soaking
• 27:43
  wet or Ashton Kutcher or whatever and they're all wet and
• 27:46
  they're like Cologne, that doesn't make me want to go buy
• 27:51
  the shit. We don't know what it does.
• 27:54
  It makes her want to go buy it for you.
• 27:58
  But an archery, we don't necessarily have that kind of
• 28:00
  conversion. No one looks, you know, like
• 28:04
  when we see, I'm not even going to try to name any.
• 28:06
  When we see a good looking woman shooting a bow, we're not like,
• 28:11
  you're not like, I'm going to go buy she's hot.
• 28:14
  I'm going to go buy that for my wife.
• 28:17
  No, that's not how it works. And so for me, we, you know, and
• 28:20
  we've kind of come over that hump where it's like the hot
• 28:22
  chicks are getting all these sponsorships and people are
• 28:24
  like, well, that's fucking life, man.
• 28:27
  But the conversion side of it, one of the goofy things I'm
• 28:32
  seeing right now is companies, companies are not learning quick
• 28:37
  enough because just be honest, hunting television is dying on
• 28:41
  the vine. And in several years, the OC,
• 28:46
  the Outdoor Channel, Sportsman's Channel, Pursuit might hang on
• 28:50
  because it's the, it's the, it's the C team.
• 28:53
  No offense to them, but that's just going to look way
• 28:57
  different. Like you see them playing old
• 28:59
  westerns and cooking shows. Now when you just hold on, it's
• 29:03
  going to look much different. And so right now what's
• 29:05
  happening is companies that are ahead of the curve are telling
• 29:09
  their people, their stars, their athletes, their shows, whatever.
• 29:13
  You better get your ass over to YouTube and Instagram.
• 29:16
  You, you, you, you better get over there, not Tiktok.
• 29:20
  Tiktok brings likes and clicks, but Tiktok is not a conversion
• 29:25
  platform and especially unless you're selling in their store.
• 29:28
  But if you even mention on TikTok like you, if you make a
• 29:33
  TikTok video and you'll be like hey go check out my YouTube and
• 29:36
  my website your shit will be seen by nobody.
• 29:39
  Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 29:40
  They want it on their store. So TikTok is just simply an
• 29:43
  eyeball thing. But the whole idea with TikTok
• 29:46
  is to get those eye because you're not.
• 29:48
  Yes, there's some entertainment, but to convert, you need to get
• 29:51
  people to leave TikTok and follow your brand elsewhere.
• 29:55
  So it's OK for that. But what I'm not seeing right
• 29:58
  now, that's kind of goofy, is I'm not seeing companies adjust
• 30:03
  quickly enough to wear these platforms, whether it's folks
• 30:08
  like you or the Hunting Public or Seek One or, you know, like
• 30:11
  the big established people, Lee and Tiffany's and Levi Morgan's
• 30:14
  and stuff. They're transitioning now.
• 30:16
  They're still on hunting television for now.
• 30:19
  But what I'm not seeing is companies adjusting quickly
• 30:22
  enough to that changing consumer dynamic that is both consumer
• 30:27
  driven and sponsorship driven. For instance, just go over to
• 30:33
  the YT and look at some of these platforms of the hunting public
• 30:38
  or you know, seek one or these bigger, these bigger hunting
• 30:42
  platforms and look at the freaking number of views and
• 30:47
  comments and up fingers they're getting.
• 30:51
  It is ridiculous. They're averaging 1,000,000
• 30:56
  views. Hunting television has never
• 30:59
  done that. And so the thing I'm I'm just to
• 31:04
  me, it's goofy, but I think a lot of companies in the space
• 31:08
  don't have the marketing knowledge to be adjusting
• 31:12
  proactively. They're going to be reactive.
• 31:14
  And just like a lot of things in our industry, yeah, you can
• 31:17
  react after, after everybody starts to turn, but then you're
• 31:21
  behind and you can't buy your way back to the front.
• 31:24
  So for me, those are those are probably the two things that
• 31:27
  that I'm seeing right now that just make me go, oh, come on,
• 31:30
  people. That was thorough.
• 31:31
  That was thorough and good. And I again, being newer to the
• 31:37
  target side, not ever shooting a national tournament, shooting
• 31:40
  like regional buckle series, things like that.
• 31:43
  Even I have thought that in in the past, like guys will wear
• 31:48
  jerseys and they're shooting a crazy, what I had at the time
• 31:51
  was like crazy target rigs. And then I freaking smoke them
• 31:54
  by 50 points with my hunting bow shooting 300.
• 31:57
  And you know, like, and it's like, why are they wearing a
• 31:59
  jersey like a? So I understand what you're
• 32:01
  saying from just being around that.
• 32:05
  So much at local. Local.
• 32:07
  Shoots fun shoots and it's like this is A1A local fun.
• 32:13
  Let me re emphasize and capitalize fun shoot.
• 32:18
  Why are you even showing up in your shooter's jersey and you
• 32:22
  like 1. The whole point of the jersey is
• 32:26
  promotional staff. As you say, there are no cameras
• 32:30
  there, there's no prize money there.
• 32:33
  There is no magazine there. There is there is nothing there
• 32:38
  because it's capital FUN. What is the point of your
• 32:43
  freaking shooters other than the people there shooters, the
• 32:47
  shooters there who are seeing you wear it, I suppose, you
• 32:50
  know, chasing clowns. About it?
• 32:51
  Chasing clowns. Exactly.
• 32:52
  That's it. I have a Dang shooter, Jersey
• 32:56
  said to me from gas. I do not in a million years
• 33:00
  deserve to have a shooter's jersey in my clock.
• 33:04
  Now I will say this about the shooters here.
• 33:06
  Let me, let me, let me jump in. Let me jump in.
• 33:10
  You're not a good example because you're not getting that
• 33:13
  because of your shooting ability or any of that.
• 33:16
  Why are they sending it? Because you're an entity that
• 33:20
  you're you. You're not a good example.
• 33:22
  And let me throw in, too, about the shooter jersey.
• 33:24
  I had never even worn one in my whole life.
• 33:27
  I'd always shot in T-shirts and whatever.
• 33:30
  And then when I got the gas jersey, when the, you know, big
• 33:33
  box of merch, I tried it at a shoot and then I went, this is
• 33:37
  nice to shoot in it, you know, like as far as our material,
• 33:40
  it's nice. So I'm going to don't worry.
• 33:42
  I'm going to have a, I'm going to have some nice jerseys for
• 33:44
  Vegas. I can't wait.
• 33:45
  But yeah. Well, but so if you were, if you
• 33:50
  were just you all by yourself, not and like if you two were
• 33:54
  just two randos that showed up to shoot, you're right, you
• 33:56
  would have you're not. So you're not a a.
• 34:00
  Different. A different story.
• 34:01
  You're not a good, you're not a good example for that because
• 34:04
  you are part of motorcycles and you guys are a thing.
• 34:08
  So a shooter's jersey? Yeah, you, you're not a good
• 34:12
  example for that. But I do agree, you go to a
• 34:14
  local shoot and I get it back in the day when there wasn't social
• 34:18
  media and cameras and the Internet and whatnot, and you
• 34:21
  know, even showing up to a fun shoot makes sense to wear your
• 34:24
  jersey because like you're trying to promote that brand as
• 34:26
  much as humanly possible and there are people there watching
• 34:29
  you shoot. But now it's just like.
• 34:34
  Well, back then, I mean, dude, back then some when the guys
• 34:39
  walked in, they had shooters, jerseys, everybody looked,
• 34:41
  everybody was like, yeah, dude as dude as a jersey own.
• 34:47
  And back then it wasn't comfortable material, it wasn't
• 34:50
  breathable material. It was terrible, but it meant
• 34:53
  something because you've earned it.
• 34:55
  And so those two things, yeah, those two things to me are, are
• 34:59
  really kind of some of the goofiness that I see right now.
• 35:02
  I mean, there's a lot of other stuff in our industry that's
• 35:04
  kind of back ass words. But those two things right now
• 35:08
  are just two of the things. I just shake my head oh Oh no I
• 35:12
  got AI, got A1C. OK, 1C coming down the pipe.
• 35:17
  Well, technically 1B because you said one 1A, so it would also be
• 35:21
  1B. Correct.
• 35:22
  So this is 1B. OK.
• 35:28
  Take a bingo. I'm on the edge of my seat.
• 35:30
  Right now, name me another sport on earth.
• 35:35
  Erf, name me another sport on earth.
• 35:39
  When the people win, they have them stand up there and hold 8
• 35:44
  checks. Y'all wait.
• 35:48
  The podcast will be forever. There are none.
• 35:50
  I've seen, I've seen plenty of them where guys will hold one
• 35:53
  check. Correct.
• 35:55
  Never 10 correct. But an archery we have Archers
• 35:59
  with sticks that have 8 fucking checks on them.
• 36:02
  Or we have Archers standing there trying to hold six
• 36:04
  different checks and some of the checks are $50.00.
• 36:08
  I I just think that is the cheapest lamest represent.
• 36:12
  It is cheesy AF. It is Chucky cheesy.
• 36:16
  That is, it is goofy. There are no other sports on
• 36:19
  earth where that happens. All right, here's my follow up.
• 36:23
  Here's my follow up question. And if the answer is the same,
• 36:26
  we'll just skip it because it might very well be the same, but
• 36:30
  the same question. The wackest thing, but this time
• 36:33
  in hunting, not archery specifically.
• 36:38
  Hunting specifically. You did sort of say it with the
• 36:41
  TV and the marketing. So if that's still the answer,
• 36:43
  we'll just move on. But if you have something, what
• 36:46
  would your answer for for that be that niche, Not archery.
• 36:51
  Specifically to hunting, I think the wackest thing is a sane
• 36:57
  comparison is the thief of joy. Oh, a saying I got.
• 37:03
  It took me, yeah, Yeah. Yeah, I got it.
• 37:06
  Comparison is the thief of joy. Too much comparison, period.
• 37:11
  End of story. Everything ain't for everybody.
• 37:15
  If, if you and if you saw me in the gym repping 315 on bench by
• 37:20
  myself, would you get all mad about it and call me a piece of
• 37:23
  shit? What a douchebag that guy is for
• 37:25
  being able to do that. Because you can't.
• 37:27
  Nope. No, you'd be like, that might
• 37:29
  kill me. Good for him, but you're not
• 37:32
  that way anyway. But what I see the the wackest
• 37:34
  thing I see in in in hunting is comparison.
• 37:38
  And then that comparison steals their joy.
• 37:40
  And then they replace that joy with jealousy, Not envy.
• 37:45
  Envy is different than jealousy. I'm envious every time Lee
• 37:49
  Lakosky goes to freaking the Yukon and shoots one of those
• 37:52
  sons of Bitchin Mooses. But you're.
• 37:54
  Not. Jealous.
• 37:55
  I'm not jealous. Yeah, I'm envious.
• 37:57
  Jealousy is a nasty poison. It's one of the worst traits.
• 38:02
  That and fear terrible for people.
• 38:06
  Fear is a liar. Fear is bad, fear is a liar.
• 38:09
  Do you know how many people in life have not even got off the
• 38:12
  starting blocks because they're too scared to do anything but
• 38:15
  one of one of the memes I share every time I see Gary Vee post
• 38:19
  it pretty often. Gary Vee is a legend.
• 38:21
  Shout out to Gary Vee but he always shares a picture of like
• 38:25
  a brand new set of boxing gloves and a beat down worn out pair of
• 38:30
  boxing gloves and one above it says talking about it, doing it.
• 38:34
  100%. And a lot of people are the
• 38:36
  shiny glove on the left. That's right.
• 38:38
  And they are not doing it. And I think that I always, I was
• 38:42
  a biker, you know, and I always the reference I like is calling
• 38:48
  people, you got to let the brakes go.
• 38:50
  You're not going to make it over the jump if you don't have the
• 38:52
  speed to clear it. You got to just commit and do
• 38:55
  it. And might you go long and get
• 38:57
  really hurt? Maybe.
• 38:59
  But at least you tried. And to me, that's better than
• 39:01
  leaving the bat on your shoulder.
• 39:03
  Right. Well, and I mean, how many times
• 39:05
  have we seen somebody and we could name, we could name a
• 39:09
  plethora of people from from Josh Baumar to Lee Lakoski to
• 39:14
  Michael Waddell to name them the juries.
• 39:17
  He can go back ever. And people are like, I could
• 39:20
  kill those animals too if I had the access that they do.
• 39:24
  Well mother fucker, you don't shut your mouth.
• 39:26
  And if you want it, go earn it. You haven't.
• 39:28
  Exactly. You haven't earned the right to
• 39:30
  have their access. Or people that hate on Cam
• 39:32
  because him and Joe get to go hunt in San Carlos.
• 39:35
  Get on the list bitch. Put up your money or shut the
• 39:39
  fuck up. Yeah, that's the problem is
• 39:41
  people see other people doing things that they haven't tried
• 39:45
  to do. It's not that they can't, they
• 39:47
  just haven't tried. Because they're too scared.
• 39:50
  They're too scared and so we're. Jealous and and that's the the
• 39:53
  big like and one I'm not going to use like the I'll talk a tiny
• 39:59
  bit about the female thing in a second, but it's the same thing.
• 40:03
  Like it it just you. Can I don't want to hear the
• 40:09
  nonsense of well, they got the money to do.
• 40:11
  I can't get on the list because I don't have the money.
• 40:14
  Well, yeah, sure, they get to do it every year because they have
• 40:17
  the money, but also they put in a boatload of work to make that
• 40:20
  money. And maybe you only make that
• 40:22
  money once in your life. Well, do you have a savings
• 40:25
  account that's labeled, you know, Yukon Hunt or whatever and
• 40:28
  you're putting your money and maybe you only get to go once in
• 40:30
  your life, but at least you're putting the money in to go.
• 40:33
  No, you're not. So fuck off and stop talking
• 40:35
  about it or getting mad or be jealous or calling them rich
• 40:39
  bastards or whatever because it doesn't matter.
• 40:42
  You could do it. Even if you could only do it
• 40:44
  once first they did it 10. You could do it, you're just not
• 40:50
  trying. Your level of effort is.
• 40:53
  You want someone to give it to you.
• 40:54
  It's also. It's also.
• 40:55
  They didn't get it given to them like I don't understand where
• 40:58
  that concept comes from. At all because people don't
• 41:02
  understand how it works. Yeah, it just, and we talked
• 41:05
  about this on like the whole drive up intermittently.
• 41:07
  It's just like you don't see the back end work that they're doing
• 41:11
  to make the podcast just doesn't show up on Cam's channel.
• 41:14
  The scheduling of the people coming to talk, the work that he
• 41:18
  does. I mean, you don't just magically
• 41:20
  start running 200 miles. No, no, and here and here's the
• 41:23
  thing, right, with stuff like this, I there's two ways to look
• 41:27
  at it and then adjust the, you know, run your life one of those
• 41:31
  two paths. You either look at a Cam Haynes
• 41:34
  and and and his San Carlos hunts and all the dope shit he gets to
• 41:38
  do because he's earned it. You either look at it and go,
• 41:43
  God, I hate that guy. He's so only cares about his
• 41:47
  image and blah, blah, blah. Or you go, I'm inspired by that.
• 41:52
  I'm going to get up and try to, I'm going to go, I'm going to go
• 41:56
  get it myself and, you know, put in the work and try to attain
• 42:00
  goals. And you look at people who have
• 42:03
  done more to inspire, to try to get to where they are.
• 42:06
  Or you see them and you respond with envy and jealousy and you
• 42:11
  never get the shoulder off your bat.
• 42:13
  And you just watch 3 strikes go down the middle, go back to the
• 42:15
  bench. Right.
• 42:16
  Well, and that that's the whole thing and we see it with
• 42:18
  everything and people are like they, they want to blame their
• 42:23
  lack of effort and their lack of results on someone else putting
• 42:26
  in the work they didn't. And so whether it's Cam or any
• 42:30
  of these people, everybody and look, man, let's just be honest,
• 42:33
  the outdoor industry is extremely toxic.
• 42:36
  It's extremely toxic. We will consume our young.
• 42:40
  I was about to make a joke about a list that probably shouldn't
• 42:43
  have been. So I'm just not going to make
• 42:45
  that joke. We literally consume our young,
• 42:48
  We consume our old, we consume anyone.
• 42:50
  I just saw a thing the other day on some other podcasts and they
• 42:53
  said that not out here on the left coast.
• 42:56
  Baiting is not a thing. On the left coast.
• 42:59
  We don't bait one because we don't know where the God damn
• 43:02
  animals are. Most of the time we got to go
• 43:04
  find them. So baiting is not a thing.
• 43:07
  But in the Midwest and the east baiting is.
• 43:09
  Dude it can literally be legal here but not legal across the
• 43:11
  street. It's the dumbest thing ever and
• 43:14
  I don't remember what state it was in.
• 43:15
  I want to say Pennsylvania but that that might not be right.
• 43:17
  Don't hold me to that, but this guy said that 90% of hunters in
• 43:23
  this particular state are illegally baiting 90%.
• 43:31
  But if Lee or Josh Beaumar or whoever legally bait, they're
• 43:41
  the biggest pieces of shit the world's ever seen and you need
• 43:44
  to burn their holes. Over feet.
• 43:47
  Yeah, burn their Curry to the ground.
• 43:48
  They're the biggest losers ever when 90% of hunters out there
• 43:54
  are illegally baiting. These guys don't even illegally
• 43:58
  bait and just get accused of it and they're people want to burn
• 44:01
  their career down. So, so is that only the 10% that
• 44:05
  are not illegally baiting? And then what is illegally
• 44:08
  baiting? So you can you can pull up a
• 44:10
  dump truck and dump 50 tons of corn in one place, and that's
• 44:15
  illegal. But if you plant 50 acres of
• 44:19
  corn and then just leave it, that's fine.
• 44:23
  Or or yeah, that's always been a goofy one.
• 44:25
  And same with like, you know, sitting, sitting water is legal
• 44:28
  in most places, right? What's the difference between
• 44:31
  sitting water and or feed? It's really not inherently all
• 44:34
  that much different, but the perception you're right is
• 44:38
  looked at totally different, which I just think I've said it
• 44:41
  a million times, But with hunting, I think the main thing,
• 44:43
  especially with states like Oregon and California constantly
• 44:47
  going after hunting rights, to me, it's so important to just,
• 44:54
  even if you hunt one way, but someone else hunts a different
• 44:57
  way that's legal and ethical. You have got to be on the same
• 45:01
  team because we need strengthen the small numbers that we do
• 45:04
  have. We have to band together and
• 45:06
  work together to fight back this, all these bullshit
• 45:08
  legislation laws that are getting attempted to push
• 45:12
  through, correct. Look at California's lost
• 45:14
  Mountain Lion hunting long ago, lost bobcat hunting a couple of
• 45:18
  years ago. They've attempted with bears
• 45:19
  numerous times. That's going to continue to
• 45:22
  happen. It is.
• 45:23
  And the only way we're going to fight it is not by bickering
• 45:27
  amongst each other. It's going to be by banding
• 45:31
  together, signing the ballot measures, donating the money,
• 45:35
  things like that. So it's important to remain
• 45:37
  educated about all those things and not hate on people who are
• 45:42
  doing things a legal way. That's not the way you do it.
• 45:45
  Yes, so we talked about that on the the last podcast with
• 45:48
  Privilege VH, but I'd I'm just going to amend what you say a
• 45:52
  little bit. I know you'll agree with me like
• 45:55
  bickering no, but wait you you actually taught me this term
• 45:58
  today when I learned the title infighting is what it's called.
• 46:02
  I still do think conversations amongst your community that
• 46:07
  don't degree should always happen.
• 46:09
  Otherwise there will never be change and improvement.
• 46:12
  But bickering no. And the one thing that gets me
• 46:19
  again with we're all working towards a common goal of
• 46:22
  conservation and keeping hunting rights and and improving them
• 46:27
  over time. Consistently bickering just
• 46:31
  makes 0 freaking sense. And I think, I can't say that
• 46:35
  the women's community does it more than the men's because
• 46:38
  there are more men. So, but maybe per capita women
• 46:42
  do. It blows my mind.
• 46:44
  Like we talked about this at dinner last night.
• 46:46
  By the end of the hunt, I ain't got no eyelashes on.
• 46:49
  I ain't got no makeup on. And you, luckily you all can't
• 46:52
  smell through the camera. But that doesn't mean the woman
• 46:56
  who wakes up an hour early is wrong for putting on her
• 47:01
  eyelashes and her makeup. Shut the F up.
• 47:04
  You're just jealous, that's all it is.
• 47:07
  Like that woman is still out there working hard to harvest an
• 47:12
  animal just like I am. I'm just too lazy to get up and
• 47:15
  put my eyelashes on, you know? So why do we get on the social
• 47:18
  media and be like all these fake women and you know, you're,
• 47:22
  they're just using like we see you said that sex sells.
• 47:24
  That's all they're doing. They're just trying to get
• 47:26
  sponsors, blah, blah, blah. Who gives AF?
• 47:28
  Well, they're getting paid because they're getting
• 47:29
  sponsors. Good for them, you know, and I'm
• 47:33
  not saying you can't be pretty without your makeup on because I
• 47:35
  get on the camera without my makeup on and eyelashes on and
• 47:39
  what not my hair done and I'm got 10 days worth of oil in my
• 47:42
  hair. But that doesn't mean we should
• 47:45
  hate on them for doing it. Whether you know one or the
• 47:50
  other, just work together like it.
• 47:54
  You don't have to call them out for doing it.
• 47:56
  That's what makes no sense in our industry.
• 47:58
  That whole, what did you call it about your reason in the hunting
• 48:05
  side you're saying? Oh, comparison is the thief of
• 48:10
  joy. Correct, like just give them
• 48:13
  props for getting out there looking good and still hunting.
• 48:17
  And I do want to make a point that in any niche sport or
• 48:20
  activity, the same stuff happens in all of it's not, it's not
• 48:24
  just hunting, it's not just archery.
• 48:25
  You go find a girl who rides motocross and there'll be plenty
• 48:29
  of guys in the comments. Oh, or she actually riding, or
• 48:31
  what, I don't know, was a beauty pageant to go riding.
• 48:34
  You know what? It happened.
• 48:35
  From sitting on her couch. It happens all the time and it
• 48:38
  is goofy, but you know, yeah, just, I think the more people
• 48:43
  could just look at people. Are we arguing about the right
• 48:46
  thing? Yeah, just look at people from a
• 48:48
  lens of inspiration more so than a lens of jealousy and envy.
• 48:53
  That that could change everything.
• 48:55
  Well, I think the precursor to a lot of that is selfishness.
• 48:58
  And the guys that are like, you know, like people nowadays are
• 49:01
  like, oh, everybody just wants to shoot big bucks.
• 49:08
  No shit. Everyone's always wanted to
• 49:10
  shoot like. That's not new.
• 49:12
  Like dude, who the fuck are you? What?
• 49:15
  Where the fuck have you been? Have you not looked at pictures
• 49:17
  from the fucking 40s? Oh dude.
• 49:19
  Like they're holding bucks like this every day.
• 49:23
  Like duh, it's AI mean. I mean, let's be honest, for the
• 49:30
  most part, it's a competition between you and the animal.
• 49:33
  And yes, you want to go experience and it's not about
• 49:36
  it's why it's called hunting, not killing.
• 49:38
  Yes, you want to harvest the animal, you want to be out in
• 49:41
  the woods, you want to experience all of that.
• 49:43
  But it's a competition. And those animals are not dumb
• 49:47
  like and so, but the selfishness comes in when it's, you know,
• 49:52
  oh, well, that guy only gets that because he has this, OK.
• 49:58
  And like my biggest thing whenever I'm talking to someone
• 50:01
  that has that kind of that hater mentality is I'll be like, what
• 50:03
  do you do for work? What do you do?
• 50:07
  Question. What do you do for work?
• 50:09
  And there is not a fucking job out there because and I was just
• 50:12
  talking to somebody about this the other day and it's it's the
• 50:15
  it's the haves and the have nots.
• 50:17
  And so when and I'll just you, you know, it doesn't matter who
• 50:22
  it is, someone is always going to be the have and someone's
• 50:25
  always going to be the have not. But those two things can invert
• 50:28
  instantly. I'll just use Joe Rogan as or
• 50:30
  Cam Haines or anyone as an example.
• 50:32
  Let's just use Cam. Cam is the have when it comes to
• 50:36
  a lot of things. He's the have when it comes to
• 50:39
  running marathons and going to hunt the San Carlos and going to
• 50:42
  Tucker Carlson's birthday and hanging out with Joe Rogan.
• 50:48
  Do you think when he has an electrical problem in his shop
• 50:50
  that he fixes it himself? No.
• 50:52
  What does he do? Call someone up.
• 50:54
  That he's now Cam is the have not.
• 50:57
  So now Cam, for all of his haves, needs to call somebody
• 51:02
  else because he's a have not when it comes to be an
• 51:04
  electrician or when it comes to fixing his truck or replacing
• 51:07
  his transmission or whatever it may be, someone is always the
• 51:13
  have and someone is always the have not.
• 51:14
  And those two things can be inverted that quick.
• 51:18
  And it doesn't matter who you are.
• 51:20
  And so if you're so upset that in this particular situation you
• 51:24
  happen to be the have not, first of all, Boo fucking who.
• 51:28
  But that's why I always ask, what do you do for a living?
• 51:31
  Because no matter what someone does for a living, there is
• 51:33
  always an example of them being the privileged.
• 51:38
  It has nothing to do with race, color, sex, fucking makes no
• 51:41
  difference. It makes no difference.
• 51:44
  There's always examples of someone that thinks they're the
• 51:48
  have not. There's always an example of
• 51:50
  them being the have and someone else being the have not.
• 51:53
  And then you can when you show them that they're the have not
• 51:56
  the have not you go, OK, now what do you want that person to
• 51:59
  hate you because you you're the have now?
• 52:02
  Or is a Cam Haines because of his level of have?
• 52:06
  Does he deserve your hate because you think his have is so
• 52:10
  far above your have not? Well, you may be the very kind
• 52:15
  of have that Cam that Cam Haines needs for something.
• 52:20
  So what then? What then?
• 52:25
  Yeah, I had a buddy that lay out the exact same example very
• 52:30
  clearly. He said that he's a business
• 52:33
  guy, right? That's what he does, makes a lot
• 52:35
  of money, coaches people how to make a lot of money.
• 52:37
  And he's very successful. And he made the example that,
• 52:41
  hey, look, I love guitars. I collect a lot of guitars and I
• 52:45
  have a lot, but I am not a great player.
• 52:49
  But that's not what I'm here to do.
• 52:51
  There's plenty of guitar guys that I look up to and my man,
• 52:55
  they're sick. It I would like to learn from
• 52:57
  them. It's never looking at them to
• 52:59
  hate on them. And then they look at him as
• 53:01
  man, that's so cool that that dude's good at business because
• 53:04
  they do. That's their halves.
• 53:07
  Good example. Now I think you're dead right
• 53:09
  there. Another thing I wanted to get
• 53:13
  into was the, you know, we've have both have done Podium
• 53:18
  Archer podcast plenty of times or I've done it plenty of times.
• 53:21
  You've done it once. I've done it once and.
• 53:23
  It's right, guys. Josh and Josh and Brandon were
• 53:27
  fun to have a conversation with. I like those guys.
• 53:29
  Yeah. And I consider both of them good
• 53:31
  friends of mine. They recently got in a little
• 53:34
  bit of conundrum with podcast they did with with Todd from
• 53:41
  Botech. And I happen to know all three
• 53:43
  of them, right? And it's an interesting spot for
• 53:47
  me because I'm friends with both of them, but I'm also signed to
• 53:50
  Botech and I've shot him since 2005.
• 53:52
  So I have a relationship with both and all three people
• 53:55
  involved. And the comment section.
• 53:59
  I'm used to seeing Botech get bullied and pushed around
• 54:02
  constantly and made fun of lately in comment sections.
• 54:05
  But that's not lately. It's pretty much been forever.
• 54:07
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was 1 occasion but that
• 54:10
  didn't happen. Most people actually sided with
• 54:14
  Todd and Botech and not Josh and Brandon, which to be honest is
• 54:18
  not what I expected. But, and again, I'm not, I don't
• 54:23
  think Josh and I don't think anybody.
• 54:25
  I'm just having a conversation about it.
• 54:28
  I don't have a beef with anybody or any brand in the situation.
• 54:31
  But I'm you're aware of what happened.
• 54:34
  What do you think and what was your read on kind of the whole
• 54:37
  situation there? So, and I'm happy to share it,
• 54:43
  but I will also tell you before I share it that I shared it with
• 54:47
  Josh to us. I shared it to Josh and I shared
• 54:51
  my opinion to Todd. So anything that I'm going to
• 54:53
  tell you is not something I haven't already said to both of
• 54:56
  them. I think it's important to put
• 54:58
  that out there so someone doesn't grab a sound bite and be
• 55:01
  like, holy shit, did you see what Greg?
• 55:03
  I don't have anything against Botech or Todd and, and I like
• 55:06
  Josh and Brandon as well. I think that was a comedy of
• 55:10
  errors and #1 when, when once again, I told him both, when Bo
• 55:20
  Tech declined coming to Nashville to do the podcast in
• 55:25
  studio. It's my opinion that Josh just
• 55:29
  said, then we're not doing 1. Everybody else came here.
• 55:35
  If you're not going to come here, then we just won't do one.
• 55:37
  No problem. Error #1 #2 apparently they did
• 55:44
  it at the ATA and there was a booth next to them that was
• 55:47
  still doing construction and stuff.
• 55:49
  And all of them, Todd, Brandon and and Josh, none of them had
• 55:57
  the the thought process to be like, OK, this is a bad start.
• 56:04
  Let's either wait, let's just not do this at all, or Josh say
• 56:09
  I'm going to get a pizza and some sodas coming.
• 56:11
  We'll eat some pizza, wait for them to finish building the
• 56:13
  booth, and then we'll continue. That's kind of on all of them to
• 56:17
  say, you know, like literally just have to read the room and
• 56:20
  be like, you know, if we were doing this podcast right now and
• 56:23
  I was getting the driveway replaced and there was a guy out
• 56:25
  there with a jackhammer, we'd be like, we should probably wait.
• 56:29
  Yeah, we should probably wait for this.
• 56:30
  And so that's, that's number, that's the other one.
• 56:35
  Then when it comes down to, you know, some of the, you know,
• 56:40
  some of the questions and the things like, look, let's just be
• 56:43
  honest, there's just no scenario.
• 56:45
  And, and I know, and look, I can't blame Josh and Brandon for
• 56:48
  wanting to talk about hot topics.
• 56:50
  Duh. Yeah, you want to.
• 56:53
  And Botech does have some hot topics that they need to talk
• 56:58
  about. Some they haven't even talked
• 56:59
  about yet that are a couple years old that they need to.
• 57:03
  I don't work for Botech. I've only met Todd once, so I
• 57:06
  really don't have much to say about.
• 57:07
  I mean I have my opinion on it, but how they handle their
• 57:10
  marketing and stuff is their business.
• 57:13
  But you know the the truth lawsuit with Botech, well,
• 57:17
  that's turned into a whole level of fuckery at this point.
• 57:22
  But Todd's not going to be able to talk about that.
• 57:24
  Not without getting fired. Not just getting fired.
• 57:27
  I doubt Todd even knows. So that part that was just
• 57:31
  never, that was just never going to be a thing.
• 57:33
  The other issue they wanted to talk about, I haven't seen
• 57:36
  Botech and I've been watching, I haven't seen Botech make a
• 57:39
  statement on that particular shooting staff situation ever.
• 57:45
  Do I believe they need to? You're God damn right.
• 57:48
  I still think they're getting their teeth kicked in over what
• 57:51
  happened a couple years ago. And I just, I don't know why
• 57:54
  they haven't addressed it yet, but anyone that's telling them
• 57:56
  they don't need to is wrong. So then we get to the fact that
• 58:01
  all of that starts and then, you know, when Todd felt and I
• 58:05
  didn't think the podcast was terrible, terrible like.
• 58:09
  I don't think so either. Yeah, I mean it, it wasn't the
• 58:12
  greatest Podium Archer podcast ever, just period.
• 58:15
  I'll say that. Yes, but it didn't start off
• 58:21
  fantastic with Motech not going to Nashville.
• 58:24
  It didn't start off well with the energy of having a booth
• 58:28
  being built next to you with metal piping and draping,
• 58:31
  clanking and hammers and trails. And so things were just
• 58:35
  snowballing. And so I don't think that the I
• 58:41
  think that the that the, that the, the biggest misstep there
• 58:45
  was the non Todd included intro. I think that that was that was a
• 58:53
  misjudgment. I understand what what Brandon
• 58:58
  and Josh were trying to do. I totally get it.
• 59:02
  I get it, you know, and I don't think it was I don't think it
• 59:06
  was intentionally meant to harm Botech in any way.
• 59:11
  I think that they just recognized that the podcast did
• 59:14
  not go as good as they had hoped.
• 59:17
  They had podcasts with John Lennay from Bear, Zach Hertz,
• 59:21
  all from Hoyt, Joel Maxfield from Matthews, like Gaius Carter
• 59:25
  from PSE. So like they had a unit of
• 59:28
  measure for Bow Company podcasts.
• 59:33
  And so they wanted this Bow Tech podcast to met to at least be in
• 59:37
  the ballpark and in the conversation with all of their
• 59:39
  other Bow Company podcasts. I can't blame them for that when
• 59:44
  that. Thought processes, the thought
• 59:47
  process is there that the reason they put in an intro is that you
• 59:52
  do have that level of measure. And so in some way you want to
• 59:57
  you want to recognize that to the audience, you know, but then
• 1:00:02
  it goes, I think just maybe a little bit beyond just
• 1:00:06
  recognizing that things weren't to the level that their typical
• 1:00:09
  bow review podcasts are. And so.
• 1:00:14
  I think they were trying to pre justify a podcast that didn't
• 1:00:19
  reach the level that they that their other boat ones did.
• 1:00:24
  It's not Todd's fault. It's not even their fault.
• 1:00:27
  It's everyone's like everyone gets the smoke here.
• 1:00:32
  And like I said, I told Todd and Josh this to their face.
• 1:00:35
  Well, one was over the phone. But so this is not anything new.
• 1:00:38
  I like both the guys. I'm not trying, but this was a
• 1:00:40
  comedy of airs and everybody gets the smoke.
• 1:00:43
  There's not. Too funny that happened to vote.
• 1:00:45
  Dude, Well, then there's that. But so I think that what Brandon
• 1:00:50
  and Josh were trying to do is is understandable.
• 1:00:53
  They were trying to preface, hey, look, this didn't go
• 1:00:58
  exactly how we wanted. This didn't go how we thought it
• 1:01:02
  would go. And so I understand what they
• 1:01:04
  did. That was probably not the best
• 1:01:07
  idea, though. I'll bet you they never do it
• 1:01:08
  again. I'll bet that at this point Josh
• 1:01:12
  and Brandon will be like, all things being equal, like if they
• 1:01:17
  decide to go remote with the podcast, that's a different
• 1:01:20
  situation. But I'll bet you in the future,
• 1:01:22
  if they do this again and and a company goes, excuse me now, we,
• 1:01:27
  we don't want to come to Nashville, they'll they'll just
• 1:01:29
  go OK, next. This will be a, this will be a
• 1:01:34
  good lesson for for Josh and Brandon.
• 1:01:37
  And I mean, not to, you know, not to glaze them too hard, but
• 1:01:40
  they're kind of new to this too, like.
• 1:01:43
  Yeah, and their podcast is great.
• 1:01:45
  I mean. Podcast is great.
• 1:01:46
  So many good episodes. It looks great the the.
• 1:01:49
  Conversations they have are are great and and I don't think that
• 1:01:53
  like to what you just said exactly because that could be
• 1:01:57
  interpreted in multiple ways. I don't think that should be
• 1:02:02
  interpreted negatively toward Josh and Brandon at all.
• 1:02:06
  It's a level of precedent that they have set for their podcast.
• 1:02:10
  It's it's the view that they want.
• 1:02:12
  They've they've put time and effort into, you know, lighting
• 1:02:15
  sound like they want a level of an environment that they've
• 1:02:18
  created there in their studio, it within the shop and that
• 1:02:22
  experience that the person has coming.
• 1:02:25
  You know, in a small sense, kind of like when you go to do Cam's
• 1:02:28
  show or you go to do Joe Rogan's, there's a level of an
• 1:02:31
  experience they want you to have when you come there.
• 1:02:34
  They want you to come and experience the shop and then do
• 1:02:37
  the podcast and meet them in person.
• 1:02:39
  And being in person plays a big factor, I think, in podcasts.
• 1:02:42
  Too. It's it's equal ground.
• 1:02:44
  I mean, to to your point, you just said it.
• 1:02:47
  Joe Rogan had Donald Trump on and Donald Trump showed up
• 1:02:51
  sight. Well, you know, his people
• 1:02:53
  showed up the day before, but Donald Trump showed up, signed
• 1:02:56
  the release. They sat down for three hours
• 1:02:58
  and Trump flew to Michigan and was late for his rally.
• 1:03:01
  His competitor Misses Kamala, wanted Joe to fly somewhere,
• 1:03:09
  could only do 45 minutes, needed all the questions in advanced,
• 1:03:12
  wouldn't come to Austin. And Joe's like, Nope, yeah,
• 1:03:16
  Nope. That's Joe maintaining equal,
• 1:03:20
  equal ground for everybody that comes on.
• 1:03:22
  And I'm not saying that's exactly what what what Josh and
• 1:03:26
  Brandon needed to do, but that's my point here is I think that
• 1:03:31
  that our industry, especially via the Internet and social
• 1:03:34
  media, we lack a lot of grace. We give, we give some people way
• 1:03:39
  too much grace that don't deserve it.
• 1:03:42
  Generally not stars and then stars that deserve or people
• 1:03:47
  that are coming up that deserve grace.
• 1:03:48
  Don't get it. Like you may not like campaigns
• 1:03:52
  to go back to Cam real quick, but look at what he's done for
• 1:03:56
  our sport. And if you don't like the fact
• 1:04:00
  he shirts with his shirt off, fuck you man.
• 1:04:02
  Show the guy a little grace. That's what he does.
• 1:04:04
  He's shredded up. I'm jealous.
• 1:04:08
  If I look like him with my shirt off, y'all would be I'd be doing
• 1:04:12
  this interview right now with my shirt off.
• 1:04:14
  Like, come on, man. And so for Brandon and Josh,
• 1:04:19
  they they are good. They're good people.
• 1:04:21
  Their hearts in the right place and they're they're learning
• 1:04:24
  this on the fly. Ever I I would make argument
• 1:04:27
  that almost everybody is learning everything on the fly
• 1:04:30
  in life. Generally it's like, I think a
• 1:04:33
  lot of people that you might think man, like that dude has it
• 1:04:36
  figured out or that girl has it figured out in whatever
• 1:04:38
  industry. And if you were in her head or
• 1:04:40
  his head, they're probably going, I have no idea what I'm
• 1:04:42
  doing. I'm just figuring it out and
• 1:04:44
  going. You don't know until you've
• 1:04:46
  learned. It in one way or another.
• 1:04:47
  Yeah, in one way or another. I've been doing this for a long
• 1:04:50
  time and yeah, there's a whole bunch of shit that I'm just on
• 1:04:54
  cruise control because I've seen it so many times and I've done
• 1:04:56
  it. Then there's other times I'm
• 1:04:57
  like, whoa, hold on. Time out.
• 1:05:01
  Yeah, I need to process this before I because my normal
• 1:05:05
  reaction because there's always nuances.
• 1:05:07
  Yeah, 100%. And so, you know, I give Brandon
• 1:05:10
  and and and Josh grace on this one simply because it's a
• 1:05:14
  learning process. And I promise you they learned a
• 1:05:16
  lesson. And so, you know, I, I don't
• 1:05:19
  hold it against them and I don't hold it against Botech or Todd
• 1:05:22
  in any in any way, shape or form.
• 1:05:25
  You know, really, I guess the only thing that I would say to
• 1:05:27
  Botech is y'all should have went to Nashville.
• 1:05:31
  Yeah. And the only thing I would say
• 1:05:32
  to Josh, which I did was when they didn't come to Nashville,
• 1:05:36
  you should have said tough shit. So who's to blame?
• 1:05:40
  Yeah, everybody. And so that's kind of my, my
• 1:05:44
  thought process on that. But they're, they're all good
• 1:05:46
  people, and that's just what it is.
• 1:05:50
  Now let's go back to one thing you said though, because you
• 1:05:53
  don't work for Bow Tech. So you say whatever you want.
• 1:05:57
  You're you talked about two things.
• 1:06:01
  You know, there's the true thing, which like again, that's
• 1:06:03
  all legal stuff that you can't really get in, like people can't
• 1:06:06
  get into who are within it. That makes common sense.
• 1:06:09
  But back to a couple years ago, Bow tech let go to shooters and
• 1:06:15
  it made an uproar in the community of archery.
• 1:06:20
  Still is. Yeah.
• 1:06:23
  Yeah, that's. Opinions on it because you don't
• 1:06:25
  work for bow tech so you can give whatever you want.
• 1:06:28
  How do you think it went? How do you think they handled
• 1:06:31
  it? Do you think it was right for
• 1:06:34
  them to let them go or wrong? Or your reasons?
• 1:06:37
  Opinions, things, thoughts. Number one, it's their business.
• 1:06:48
  They can do whatever the fuck they want.
• 1:06:50
  Period. Full stop, end of sentence.
• 1:06:55
  Like the First Amendment, you have the right to say whatever
• 1:06:58
  you want. That doesn't mean you're free of
• 1:06:59
  consequences. And so Bo Tech was they.
• 1:07:03
  They were welcome to operate their business, however they
• 1:07:06
  felt they needed to within the confines of the law.
• 1:07:10
  And what they did. And what you're referring to is
• 1:07:12
  the termination of Tim Gillingham and Kyle Douglas.
• 1:07:16
  Their contracts were different. But as I understand it, Botech
• 1:07:21
  did not illegally. They didn't violate any laws and
• 1:07:25
  terminating them the way they did, each one had different
• 1:07:28
  clauses. And so there was no lawsuits
• 1:07:30
  resulting from it. So that that's a big thing.
• 1:07:36
  And so I, I'll say that first. Do I think it was a good idea?
• 1:07:39
  Fuck no, that was not a smart idea.
• 1:07:43
  That was dumb. That was really dumb.
• 1:07:49
  But the thing that surprises me, you know, and, but hey, it's
• 1:07:51
  their business to run. But to your point, I, I, I am
• 1:07:58
  very, I don't understand why Bowtech has not addressed it in
• 1:08:02
  any kind of way. I don't know everybody that
• 1:08:04
  works there at the marketing department.
• 1:08:05
  I don't know everybody that, and you have to understand, Bowtech
• 1:08:09
  is not in, but Bowtech's owned by Pure, which owns Savage.
• 1:08:12
  So Savage Firearms, not a small company basically overseas.
• 1:08:17
  Everything at Bowtech. Well, Bowtech ain't no offense
• 1:08:21
  to anyone. Bowtech ain't shit compared to
• 1:08:23
  Savage. And so Bowtech's going to be the
• 1:08:25
  third wheel, it's going to be the third wheel and funding,
• 1:08:28
  it's going to be the third wheel, and resources can be the
• 1:08:30
  third wheel and everything it's. Like that in so many archery
• 1:08:33
  witnesses, you know, they are like, just like what victories
• 1:08:37
  owned by Mitsubishi? Like, do you think that the
• 1:08:41
  Victory arrows are more important than their cars and
• 1:08:44
  everything else that Mitsubishi owns?
• 1:08:47
  Yeah, golf clubs and everything. Well, and and no to to that
• 1:08:50
  point, I mean, and I've told Steve, Steve Greenwood this to
• 1:08:53
  his face. Love you Steve.
• 1:08:57
  The Mitsubishi does not give Steve Greenwood the funding he
• 1:09:00
  needs to put Victory's marketing where their product deserves to
• 1:09:05
  be. The product is great.
• 1:09:06
  They have no product issues. If Victory was allowed to
• 1:09:10
  actually bring in a gangster for marketing, they would be a
• 1:09:13
  problem. They're already making a great
• 1:09:16
  product. That's but Steve's.
• 1:09:18
  Steve's not. I don't think Steve's allowed to
• 1:09:21
  bring in the people that he really, really would need to
• 1:09:24
  turn their marketing into a real juggernaut.
• 1:09:27
  Is that because the owners of Mitsubishi are Japanese and are
• 1:09:30
  probably not super fond of killing things?
• 1:09:33
  I don't know. Who knows?
• 1:09:35
  But they're just not, and you can see it.
• 1:09:37
  Yeah, maybe that is a, you know, again, they didn't necessarily
• 1:09:41
  like you said, maybe address it in a way that it should have
• 1:09:45
  been going back to the shooters and granted you're not going to
• 1:09:50
  come out even if it were the case that like financially
• 1:09:53
  funding wise, it just doesn't make sense to pay.
• 1:09:56
  You know, we can't afford to pay the share, whatever the case may
• 1:10:01
  be. Again, that's their businesses
• 1:10:03
  priority and at the end of the day, it is a business.
• 1:10:07
  But it is also a community. And and so here's what I would
• 1:10:11
  say to that from my knowledge of the situation.
• 1:10:19
  And this is just what I know to be facts.
• 1:10:21
  This is not speculation. This is not speculation.
• 1:10:24
  This is, I'm not guessing. I'm not going to, you know, but
• 1:10:27
  I no one talked to a lot of people.
• 1:10:28
  And so here's here's what I know of that situation.
• 1:10:31
  That situation didn't that decision didn't come from within
• 1:10:35
  Bowtech. People at Bowtech didn't make
• 1:10:37
  that decision. That decision came from above
• 1:10:40
  them. And so when the decision was
• 1:10:44
  made, it was just as big a surprise to them.
• 1:10:47
  I don't necessarily think it was just a financial decision.
• 1:10:51
  I think it was a decision. Let's see what's the best way to
• 1:10:54
  put this. I know that that was a decision
• 1:10:59
  made by someone at the corporate level that is #1 no longer
• 1:11:02
  there. And #2 they have new folks
• 1:11:07
  involved at the corporate level. And when I say corporate, I mean
• 1:11:10
  above Botech, like when we say corporate level at Hoyt, I'm
• 1:11:14
  talking Zach Kurz, all Jeremy Eldridge, Tom Driffield,
• 1:11:17
  etcetera. When we say corporate level at
• 1:11:19
  Matthews, we all like you know, when you, when, when we say
• 1:11:23
  corporate level at Bo tech, well right now we're talking about
• 1:11:26
  Savage and those people don't know archery.
• 1:11:30
  And so they made a business decision based on the books
• 1:11:33
  without understanding what the downstream effects would be.
• 1:11:36
  So my opinion that decision was made at a corporate level that
• 1:11:40
  no one at Botech was aware of or had input in that person is no
• 1:11:44
  longer around. I do know that.
• 1:11:47
  And so with that being said, what I see happening right now,
• 1:11:52
  and apparently there was some more changes at Botech and a new
• 1:11:54
  gentleman, I don't know the guy from, I don't know the guy, but
• 1:11:57
  apparently there, there's a new HNIC over there.
• 1:12:01
  And he, if you don't know what that means, Google it.
• 1:12:06
  And he is going to be trying to get the ball back headed in the
• 1:12:10
  right direction. So what I first, I just wish
• 1:12:13
  Bowtech would come out and just acknowledge and say, hey, at
• 1:12:17
  Bowtech, not corporate, because the person at corporate that
• 1:12:20
  made the decision is not even there anymore.
• 1:12:21
  I wish Bowtech would just come out and say, Hey, look what that
• 1:12:24
  was. We didn't want to make that
• 1:12:25
  decision. It wasn't our decision.
• 1:12:26
  That's what happened. We, we, we, we wanted to keep
• 1:12:30
  them because Kyle and Tim were crushing it for them.
• 1:12:34
  And so just basically say, hey, that's, that's what happened.
• 1:12:38
  It wasn't what we wanted to do that that corporate entity is no
• 1:12:41
  longer here. And what I see or what I see for
• 1:12:45
  the future of Bowtech, because I see this new, this guy now is
• 1:12:49
  going to start trying to rebuild kind of some of that grassroots
• 1:12:54
  support that Bowtech had. And yes, their staff's never
• 1:12:57
  been huge. It's probably never going to be
• 1:12:59
  huge. And so, you know, with that
• 1:13:02
  being said, I am not sure Botech still understands the damage
• 1:13:08
  that that situation is doing to them to this day.
• 1:13:11
  And just coming out and saying something about, yeah, it's not
• 1:13:16
  what we wanted to do either, where it's unfortunate.
• 1:13:19
  We loved Kyle and Tim. Now we have to, we have new
• 1:13:23
  people in place and we are going to start moving for, you know,
• 1:13:27
  we're moving forward trying to make the best product we can.
• 1:13:29
  And we we want to just show the community that, you know, that's
• 1:13:34
  not what we wanted to do. And, and it's not going to, you
• 1:13:37
  know, we just want to rebuild that relationship with the
• 1:13:39
  archery community. It's all it would take.
• 1:13:43
  Or some version of that. Of course, they probably have to
• 1:13:46
  run it through their corporate filters, but you get the point.
• 1:13:49
  Just come out and say, yeah, that sucked.
• 1:13:53
  But that's wasn't our decision. It came from above us.
• 1:13:55
  And that above us is no longer here.
• 1:13:58
  And you know, we just want to rebuild and show you guys that
• 1:14:01
  you can trust us. And because I still hear about
• 1:14:05
  it all the time and so. Especially you being more
• 1:14:07
  involved in the target. And I don't, I mean I'll be
• 1:14:11
  honest with you, at the time I was like, bow tech is retarded
• 1:14:17
  with an H retarded. And then once I learned about it
• 1:14:21
  I'm like shit, that wasn't even a bow tech decision.
• 1:14:25
  Isn't that crazy? Because then you, you know, it's
• 1:14:27
  like, and that happens and stuff all of the time, but like you,
• 1:14:31
  you only see what you see. So you put the, the brand that
• 1:14:36
  you think that you see on the name for the hate and it
• 1:14:41
  actually had nothing to do with them.
• 1:14:42
  And like, you know, now you're all, everyone's out there hating
• 1:14:46
  a bow that's a again, a company that's a, you know, it's a
• 1:14:50
  great, we wouldn't shoot it if it's not a great bow.
• 1:14:52
  Like all bows are great nowadays, but like, it's a great
• 1:14:54
  bow. It's a great company, but you
• 1:14:57
  just, you just see the letter come out that says those shooter
• 1:15:00
  2 shooters are no longer with us and you're like.
• 1:15:03
  With the Botech logo on top, I don't know who runs their their,
• 1:15:07
  I don't know who runs their PR over there and I don't know who
• 1:15:09
  runs their marketing over there. But that was not, that was not
• 1:15:15
  super well handled in my opinion.
• 1:15:17
  You know, I've been fortunately and unfortunately, I've had to
• 1:15:20
  navigate several PR nightmares in my last 20 plus years doing
• 1:15:24
  this. And I, I, I just, I, I don't
• 1:15:27
  know if they had the inner dialogue and resources to, to,
• 1:15:31
  to actually handle that the way that would have put a reasonable
• 1:15:36
  end to it. But I can tell you right now, I,
• 1:15:37
  I was one of the guys was like, I did a podcast about it right
• 1:15:40
  when it happened. It's their business to do.
• 1:15:43
  But what the fuck are you thinking?
• 1:15:46
  That's, but then when you learn. Well, yeah, it was Botech's, you
• 1:15:51
  know, logo on top of that letter, but no one at Botech was
• 1:15:55
  the one that wrote it. Like they didn't make the
• 1:15:59
  decision. And that's huge.
• 1:16:01
  But also at the same time, then how do you, you know, I'll just
• 1:16:04
  use Todd as an example. I don't know who else works with
• 1:16:06
  him in marketing. I'm ignorant on that.
• 1:16:09
  Well, Todd's not going to arbitrarily and come out and be
• 1:16:11
  like, yeah, it was, it was freaking Savage, did it, not us.
• 1:16:15
  Yeah, you, bro, you're fired. And so I don't, I'm not familiar
• 1:16:19
  with the inner workings of that, but I can tell you right now
• 1:16:22
  that, you know, I, I, I still hope someone at Botech or above
• 1:16:28
  or this new guy, I don't know his name, can grasp the, the,
• 1:16:35
  the weight of that decision and that it's still affecting the
• 1:16:39
  company to this day. And just come out.
• 1:16:42
  And then, you know, he doesn't even have to own it because it
• 1:16:45
  wasn't his decision and the first news decision it was isn't
• 1:16:48
  there anymore. Yeah, it's a delicate community
• 1:16:52
  that like the outdoors community and Target is another is, you
• 1:16:56
  know, it's a sub. Well, I wouldn't call it sub
• 1:16:58
  because like Target, I think you've said it on podcast for
• 1:17:01
  like that drives the hunting country marketing arm.
• 1:17:05
  Yeah. But when you when you fracture
• 1:17:09
  that in some way and letting go to major, you know, shooters
• 1:17:14
  like that does fracture the the arm of your business, what is
• 1:17:20
  the plan in place to repair it? Yeah, it breaks that trust.
• 1:17:25
  Yeah, yeah. Now I don't know.
• 1:17:27
  I know you know, I dominate podcasts.
• 1:17:29
  So do you have anything before I because I'm going to continue
• 1:17:31
  into this, but. One thing that I want to add to
• 1:17:34
  that is I just did a podcast here a while ago with the new
• 1:17:36
  guy over at Faradine and Carbon Express, and Faradine has had a
• 1:17:41
  similar, probably worse public relations SNAFU issue for a long
• 1:17:48
  time. And he just basically came on
• 1:17:51
  there and did just that. He's like, yeah, it's totally
• 1:17:55
  not, yeah, they ruin brands, but that CE OS gone, that CF OS
• 1:17:59
  gone, the guy that was, they're all gone.
• 1:18:03
  We got new people and the new people are dedicated to these
• 1:18:05
  brands. OK, now what?
• 1:18:08
  Now, what are you going to say? He literally came on the
• 1:18:11
  podcast. His name's Zach, nice guy.
• 1:18:14
  And he was literally like, oh, yeah, yeah, all that happened.
• 1:18:17
  And it was not. It was those were not good
• 1:18:19
  decisions, but those people are gone.
• 1:18:21
  Here we are. We're going to try to rebuild
• 1:18:23
  it, and we hope people can give us an opportunity to trust us.
• 1:18:27
  But yeah, that stuff that happened, yeah, that happened.
• 1:18:31
  And we're bummed about it. But those people are no longer
• 1:18:34
  involved, and we're moving forward.
• 1:18:35
  What else do you want a company to say?
• 1:18:38
  Yeah, like what else do you want them to?
• 1:18:39
  Say transparency you're offering to your consumers that allows
• 1:18:44
  them to continue trusting you it because when you put the
• 1:18:51
  blockade up there, you know, unless you're going to break it
• 1:18:56
  down some way down the road, there is no transparency for
• 1:19:00
  them to say, well, that does suck.
• 1:19:02
  But at least you, you know, admitted that, you know, there's
• 1:19:07
  there's a like there's a way forward or you know, something
• 1:19:10
  something you gave you threw a lifeline out somehow.
• 1:19:15
  And what's crazy, it's like that seems so like, why is that
• 1:19:19
  sound? Why haven't they done it or why
• 1:19:24
  isn't another brand do it? Or why did they just do it for,
• 1:19:27
  you know, fair dime or whatever. That is so normal outside of our
• 1:19:32
  community. Like a press release is such a,
• 1:19:37
  I've written a million press releases, you know, probably not
• 1:19:40
  a million, but over 100. And it's like it's so common in
• 1:19:45
  other companies, you know, you know, and an update to a press
• 1:19:48
  release or an amendment or whatever, like just come out and
• 1:19:52
  say something. Right.
• 1:19:54
  But, but if you don't have anybody in the company structure
• 1:19:56
  that can formulate it to where it doesn't expose you.
• 1:20:00
  To liability. It doesn't expose you to other
• 1:20:03
  things, like if you don't have anybody there to navigate the
• 1:20:06
  verbiage and navigate the messaging, then you say nothing.
• 1:20:10
  And the problem when you say nothing is it lets people's
• 1:20:12
  imaginations run wild with them. And that's not that's not good.
• 1:20:17
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, hey, look, my here's my
• 1:20:22
  thing. I I mean, like I mentioned with
• 1:20:24
  the Josh and Brandon thing, yeah, Bow Tack's been getting
• 1:20:28
  hammered in comments for quite a while and I just think people
• 1:20:34
  should give him a shot again, like not look at them so
• 1:20:36
  negatively because I do think the Bows are really good.
• 1:20:39
  Like I said, I've shot him for my 21st year in a row and I like
• 1:20:44
  the team there. I like the people there.
• 1:20:46
  I think it's improved since I've been there.
• 1:20:49
  And I just think that, you know, before you drop a troll comment,
• 1:20:54
  maybe go try try the bows, you know, And I think that I think
• 1:20:57
  that's it. You know.
• 1:20:59
  Just give it a shot and a lot of time has passed, a lot of water
• 1:21:02
  has been under the bridge. And I'm not saying they
• 1:21:03
  shouldn't address it. I think that would be wise.
• 1:21:06
  But if they do, then I definitely think, I think you
• 1:21:10
  should give them a shot either way.
• 1:21:12
  But once they do, then it's like OK, now you really got to get in
• 1:21:17
  there and give them a fair shake when you go to purchase a new
• 1:21:20
  bow, don't not shoot the bow tech.
• 1:21:23
  Go shoot them all because the bows are really good and
• 1:21:25
  deadlocks great and as we. Well, let's be honest here.
• 1:21:29
  And this is something that that I did say to the Bow Tech guy at
• 1:21:33
  ATA. I've said it to Gaius and I've
• 1:21:37
  said it to Steve Greenwood as well as is it a product issue or
• 1:21:43
  is it a other issue? And so I've, I've not, I've not
• 1:21:49
  dude, Tom Thomas Neely and I had the first Target Pro 40 models
• 1:21:54
  from Botech when we were making strings with winner's choice
• 1:21:56
  here in town. But I haven't had a Botech for
• 1:21:59
  25 years. And but I don't have anything
• 1:22:03
  negative to say about them. Every company has had their
• 1:22:05
  issues. And if you're in the comments
• 1:22:07
  talking about, well, Botech's limbs, yeah, that was like a
• 1:22:10
  decade ago. And other companies have had
• 1:22:13
  limbs issues too. So probably should close your
• 1:22:15
  mouth. But the problem is, is if
• 1:22:17
  someone's not going to try, like I said, I don't know the bow
• 1:22:19
  tech, I'm not sure. But if you're not going to
• 1:22:22
  choose a bow tech, is it an equipment issue or is it an
• 1:22:25
  other issue? And if you tell me, oh, I didn't
• 1:22:28
  like the grip or I didn't like the draw cycle, or I didn't like
• 1:22:30
  this or I didn't like that, copy that.
• 1:22:33
  Everything ain't for everybody. If you tell me well, I'm not
• 1:22:37
  doing this because Botex decision with so and so Kyle or
• 1:22:42
  Tim or whatever. And so I'm just not going to
• 1:22:44
  associate with a company that is going to do that.
• 1:22:47
  OK, that's fair too. But then you also open yourself
• 1:22:50
  up to the fact that you need to understand the full story and
• 1:22:54
  you need to get all the information.
• 1:22:55
  And once you get all that information and you realize
• 1:22:57
  that, is that really the IT or do not like him?
• 1:23:04
  Because, you know, I mean, we could make all kinds of joke,
• 1:23:06
  you know, not that Botech is, but are you not going to tack
• 1:23:09
  because of all the flat bills? I've been to tacks, everybody
• 1:23:13
  there is not wearing a God damn flat bill.
• 1:23:15
  And they're not all wearing. They're not all dressed in $2000
• 1:23:18
  in Sitka and they're not all like the first time I went, I
• 1:23:22
  was literally expecting everything I had heard, and it
• 1:23:27
  wasn't. And it wasn't.
• 1:23:29
  No, yeah, there were some flat bills and yeah, there were some
• 1:23:31
  dudes in Sitka, but there was way more than just normal shit.
• 1:23:35
  And so that's just the Internet blowing stuff up.
• 1:23:39
  And so if someone shoots A Bowtech and doesn't want a
• 1:23:41
  Bowtech because they shot a Bowtech and they don't like a
• 1:23:43
  Bowtech, oh, OK, that's cool. No problem.
• 1:23:47
  If, if, if you don't want to try a Bowtech or a Hoyt or a
• 1:23:49
  Matthews or, you know, if you don't want to try a Matthews
• 1:23:51
  because, you know, whatever, or if you don't want to try a Hoyt
• 1:23:55
  because you heard, well, that's just dumb.
• 1:24:00
  Yeah. And my thing is, is it true?
• 1:24:02
  So yeah, I agree. Let's real quick, quick
• 1:24:05
  commercial break. I'm going to insert a commercial
• 1:24:07
  here and I also my back teeth are floating so I'm going to hit
• 1:24:10
  the bathroom and we'll restart. All right guys, thanks for
• 1:24:13
  watching, but right now or right after this pod, go to
• 1:24:16
  www.bodisciples.com and pick up your Bo Disciples Challenge 4
• 1:24:21
  tickets. We've got one day, 2 day and
• 1:24:24
  three day passes now, plus walkers and kids.
• 1:24:28
  Also go to newbadlands.com and use code team BD because all of
• 1:24:32
  February our discount code gets you 25% off, but you have to do
• 1:24:37
  it in February or that code goes back down.
• 1:24:40
  February 25% off team BD badlands.com.
• 1:24:44
  Thanks for. Watching We are back from the
• 1:24:45
  sponsor break. Bo Tech Archery, the sponsor of
• 1:24:48
  this podcast. No, but.
• 1:24:50
  Right. But so first of all, I love all
• 1:24:55
  these topics. I think it's good to talk about
• 1:24:57
  stuff that is in the comment section.
• 1:25:00
  You know, it's important to address that stuff.
• 1:25:03
  But one thing that I think a lot of people would be interested in
• 1:25:08
  from you specifically is I think what maybe a lot of people don't
• 1:25:12
  know about you that I didn't even know the scope of it until
• 1:25:17
  I got here, is how much you have worked sort of not in a direct
• 1:25:23
  capacity, but sort of an agent capacity for people and help
• 1:25:27
  them, you know, get a sponsorship here or there, line
• 1:25:30
  up deals and, and things like that.
• 1:25:32
  Obviously, right now you got the beast shirt, Beast broadheads
• 1:25:35
  who you work with and as do I, right.
• 1:25:39
  And you did my first contract and we just did a second one.
• 1:25:45
  And I know you have a pretty limited roster of like guys you
• 1:25:48
  choose to to say that's a guy I want to work with or a gal I
• 1:25:52
  want to work with for the up and comers, because that was that
• 1:25:56
  was me and that's many of others.
• 1:25:58
  You know, what are some things that you look for as kind of the
• 1:26:02
  guy making decisions, whether or not to hand out a contract,
• 1:26:05
  whether that be free product, whether that be product and
• 1:26:08
  money, whatever it might be? What do you look for both as
• 1:26:13
  representing a brand doing those deals, but then also when you're
• 1:26:17
  helping the athlete connect to a brand, like what are some tips
• 1:26:21
  that you would have for those up and comers trying to get their
• 1:26:24
  first sponsorship? Well, the first thing is
• 1:26:27
  authenticity, but like, but authenticity, period, period.
• 1:26:33
  Authenticity is number one. It doesn't matter how good
• 1:26:40
  looking you are. It doesn't matter if you're
• 1:26:43
  dropping 200 inch whitetail like they're for free or you're in
• 1:26:46
  the Saran Carlos shooting 400 inch bowls.
• 1:26:49
  Authenticity is appealing authenticity is sexy, and I
• 1:26:54
  don't mean sexy in this in a sexual way, but often test
• 1:26:58
  authenticity transcends a lot of things.
• 1:27:02
  And so when I and, and yes, I have, you know, I am not an, I'm
• 1:27:07
  not an agent, but. That you're offering your
• 1:27:10
  services. Look your website after.
• 1:27:12
  That personal phone number here, right, but I've just been doing
• 1:27:17
  this so long that you know, I know most all the equipment
• 1:27:19
  companies and when I when I, you know, get to know somebody and I
• 1:27:26
  feel that they are someone that is going to be a good
• 1:27:30
  representative and a good ambassador for a brand, I'm more
• 1:27:33
  than happy to make a connection. I don't make anything off of it.
• 1:27:36
  I don't ask for anything off of it, but being able to connect
• 1:27:40
  dots for people is something that I've enjoyed for a long
• 1:27:42
  time. Whether it's on the target side,
• 1:27:44
  the hunting side, I just like do it.
• 1:27:46
  I just like doing it. And I seem to be fairly decent
• 1:27:49
  at it. And so, but when it comes to
• 1:27:52
  someone, you know, up and coming, I know right now the big
• 1:27:55
  thing that a lot of people are, you know, oh, I got to have a
• 1:27:59
  this camera and I got to have this and I got to have that.
• 1:28:01
  And I'm like, no, you don't. No, you don't.
• 1:28:04
  No, you don't. You do have to have professional
• 1:28:07
  audio. You do have to have good audio.
• 1:28:10
  But I built Bo junkie on a fucking cell phone, bro.
• 1:28:14
  And so Mike's back. I I so quality of content over
• 1:28:22
  quality of production, period. And so for me, whether it's
• 1:28:28
  someone I'm helping with a placement or someone that I am
• 1:28:30
  representing a company, which I've done a lot of, the first
• 1:28:35
  thing I look for is authenticity.
• 1:28:37
  I don't necessarily, you know, and so here, here's the other
• 1:28:40
  thing. There's levels to this.
• 1:28:43
  If you're, you know, if you're a company and you want to sponsor
• 1:28:47
  Cam Haynes or Lee or Lee Lakowski, that's a much
• 1:28:52
  different conversation than sponsoring Bo disciples or a
• 1:28:59
  step below Bo Disciples that there's there's levels to it and
• 1:29:03
  the conversation has to change for each.
• 1:29:05
  But what doesn't change is the authenticity of it.
• 1:29:09
  You know, there's you know, that's just what it is.
• 1:29:11
  And so content can be created, authenticity cannot.
• 1:29:16
  That's it. And so when you start to look at
• 1:29:20
  a pairing for a company like I've never been fond of the just
• 1:29:26
  grab as much as you can, throw it against the wall and see what
• 1:29:28
  sticks. I want specific targeted
• 1:29:32
  strategic partnerships that are are tangible and that it's a
• 1:29:37
  fit. Let's just, let's just use an
• 1:29:42
  example. Let's say that there's a guy
• 1:29:45
  who's out there who's wild straight archery X Games level.
• 1:29:51
  He is, he's out there, bleach blonde hair, wears some eye
• 1:29:58
  makeup, kills huge deer parties on the weekends, doesn't do
• 1:30:03
  anything illegal, but he's out there.
• 1:30:07
  He's a rock star. Not a good fit for Matthews.
• 1:30:13
  Like, fair. Common sense.
• 1:30:15
  Yeah. Common sense.
• 1:30:16
  Yeah. Like, no offense to Matthews,
• 1:30:19
  but they're extremely Christian based.
• 1:30:23
  They're religious. And they have they have their
• 1:30:25
  they have their program. A Wildman is not going to be a
• 1:30:30
  fit for them, so they're not going to sign him.
• 1:30:33
  Some other companies love it. Love that stuff So what you know
• 1:30:38
  what are we talking about and so understanding those dynamics of
• 1:30:43
  the personalities and the companies and proper fits and
• 1:30:46
  stuff like your guys's content you know you you have a specific
• 1:30:51
  aspect to your content that is fun and it's funner by its
• 1:30:57
  design by your guys's personality.
• 1:31:00
  Your content has an element of fun to it that supersedes the
• 1:31:05
  size of the animals you're going after.
• 1:31:09
  It supersedes the targets you're shooting.
• 1:31:11
  When you post content down in San Diego at the at the range
• 1:31:14
  down there, it supersedes, you know, your content when you're
• 1:31:18
  driving is not like other people.
• 1:31:21
  So fun for you is paramount. Yeah, of course.
• 1:31:26
  You want to put animals in the dirt.
• 1:31:27
  Yeah, yeah, of course. But and not everybody has that
• 1:31:31
  same dynamic. And so understanding the
• 1:31:32
  personal dynamics for people and the companies that they're going
• 1:31:36
  to associate with is, is super important.
• 1:31:39
  So number one is authenticity. After that, you can craft your
• 1:31:44
  content to to suit your audience.
• 1:31:49
  And, you know, I know everyone's like, there's only so many
• 1:31:51
  audiences. Yeah, there is only so many
• 1:31:55
  people out there. But the problem is not everybody
• 1:31:58
  is drawn to the same thing. You know, there is, there is
• 1:32:03
  people out there that are, you know, Ogs in this game that are
• 1:32:09
  super dependable, very trustworthy.
• 1:32:12
  They toe the line. They are your, you know, Greg
• 1:32:15
  Glessinger, for instance, from Hot Works.
• 1:32:19
  Dude's a savage. He's, you know, he's my age, but
• 1:32:23
  he is an absolute gangster when it comes to huge whitetails.
• 1:32:30
  He's he's up there with anybody with monster whitetails.
• 1:32:34
  He's an older gentleman, but his content is is incredibly
• 1:32:38
  informative and he's great to watch.
• 1:32:42
  His content is not like your content.
• 1:32:45
  His content is not like some other people's content.
• 1:32:48
  And so there's always crowds that are going to be drawn to
• 1:32:51
  two specific things. And so understanding that is, is
• 1:32:56
  huge. And the thing that ends up
• 1:32:59
  happening is, is someone will try too hard and then it's
• 1:33:03
  obvious. And when you're not authentic
• 1:33:06
  and you try too hard, Stevie Wonder can see that happen, see
• 1:33:12
  that train wreck coming. And so, so that's, that's kind
• 1:33:16
  of the, the one of the first things that I look for.
• 1:33:18
  The other is realistic expectations, you know, when,
• 1:33:25
  when and and up and Comer like you, you guys are still up and
• 1:33:29
  coming, but at least you're on you're you're from the bottom
• 1:33:33
  level. You're at least starting to
• 1:33:34
  you're on the first step and you're going to start working
• 1:33:37
  your way up the other steps and obviously keep going as high up
• 1:33:39
  the steps as you can. But realizing the, you know,
• 1:33:44
  managing your own expectations. That goes back to what we were
• 1:33:47
  talking about, about some of the goofy stuff in archery and
• 1:33:49
  hunters looking at someone that kills bigger stuff than them and
• 1:33:52
  getting all jealous about it and saying they're that they're
• 1:33:54
  douchebags. If you're coming fresh into this
• 1:33:59
  game, it's OK to look up to someone like a like a Greg
• 1:34:03
  Lessinger or Lee Lakosky or a Jim Shockey or a Michael Waddell
• 1:34:07
  or a whoever. It's OK to look up to them and
• 1:34:09
  be like, yeah, but coming fresh into the game, don't expect to
• 1:34:16
  get what they get. They've earned that.
• 1:34:19
  And so you need to, you're going to need to earn that too.
• 1:34:23
  And we've seen people come into the game, make it a step or two
• 1:34:26
  and then just crash out. And that's generally has to do
• 1:34:30
  with a lack of authenticity. Yeah, it gets tired and you
• 1:34:33
  might get tired of or fatigued of putting on a, an image
• 1:34:37
  upfront rather than just being yourself and documenting it.
• 1:34:43
  Another question I have is so if we're, if it's called a step
• 1:34:46
  one, right, there's people watching this that go man, if,
• 1:34:49
  if boat disciples is Step 1 / 100,000 Subs 80,000 Instagram,
• 1:34:54
  whatever on Facebook, TikTok, people are probably manifest
• 1:34:58
  step one. I got a long ways to go.
• 1:35:00
  It seems impossible. What are the things you see
• 1:35:03
  people do who want to make it to step one and then hopefully more
• 1:35:09
  past that? What are the things you see
• 1:35:12
  people wasting time or like the biggest thing you're seeing
• 1:35:17
  people missing on doing? Like is it not posting enough?
• 1:35:21
  Is it not being consistent? Is it posting every week for a
• 1:35:25
  month and then not posting for three months?
• 1:35:27
  Like what is something you see commonly that people that aren't
• 1:35:31
  even 2 step one are dropping the ball on that might be stopping
• 1:35:35
  them from reaching a step one? Yeah, so, so first of all, I
• 1:35:41
  understand what you're talking about when you say 100,000 Subs
• 1:35:44
  and this and that and the other. That doesn't mean shit.
• 1:35:48
  I agree. You don't know what means shit
• 1:35:50
  is reach video, views, interactions and conversion as
• 1:35:55
  you can go to many many a YouTube and a Facebook and an
• 1:35:59
  Instagram page and they'll have 380,000 and each post gets 22
• 1:36:05
  likes. You know what's funny?
• 1:36:07
  I tell, I tell folks us all the time, we were just with
• 1:36:10
  privilege Bowhunter and I think he's got like 1314 thousand
• 1:36:14
  Subs. And what I told him is I said he
• 1:36:17
  was really fixated on the subscriber number.
• 1:36:19
  I told him flat out, and I tell this to everybody, I don't give
• 1:36:22
  a shit about the subscriber number.
• 1:36:24
  Yes, it's the first one people see, but what I care about is a
• 1:36:27
  viewership number, the watch hours, the engagement.
• 1:36:32
  I care about that far more than the subscriber number because
• 1:36:37
  there's ways like our Instagram is actually a good example.
• 1:36:39
  We get our engagement is getting better and it's decent, but it's
• 1:36:42
  not near what it should be for a follower amount.
• 1:36:44
  And that's because we had a mega, mega viral video at one
• 1:36:47
  point that I think has over 100 million views and it got in a
• 1:36:52
  bunch of followers. I'm talking thousands a day, but
• 1:36:56
  a lot of them were bots or from India or this or that.
• 1:37:00
  And as a creator, you don't really.
• 1:37:03
  It's great to have the big video, but it's also like, man,
• 1:37:05
  now our engagement numbers, our engagement numbers look like
• 1:37:09
  this. And it does fix itself, but it
• 1:37:11
  takes a long period of time of losing the fake followers, which
• 1:37:17
  no, we didn't buy them, but they do flood in on those mega viral
• 1:37:20
  videos. It takes time for those to drain
• 1:37:26
  and to build authentic ones. And it's finally getting to a
• 1:37:29
  more healthy place. But I agree with you that the
• 1:37:33
  follower, the subscriber total, that's not nearly as important
• 1:37:37
  as the engagement total. Right, 100% And so one of the
• 1:37:42
  things that I see and you know, I was around social media when
• 1:37:45
  it first started and you know, back when Facebook was the wild,
• 1:37:49
  Wild West and you could build mega pages on Facebook at the
• 1:37:54
  beginning mega, the algorithm was open.
• 1:37:57
  I don't even know if they had one back then.
• 1:37:59
  They're just like Facebook, yo. And it's like, well fuck, man,
• 1:38:04
  this is like, you know, I was never on Myspace, but it was
• 1:38:06
  like, come get some. And so, but what I see happening
• 1:38:11
  right now, and you know, a lot of people will assume that this
• 1:38:14
  is not as not as in depth as it really is.
• 1:38:18
  But what you post on Facebook is not what you post on Instagram.
• 1:38:22
  What you post on Instagram is not what you post on YouTube.
• 1:38:24
  And what you post on institute YouTube is not what you post on
• 1:38:27
  YouTube. I mean, it's TikTok and it's
• 1:38:29
  just like Jesus. And so you guys know the
• 1:38:33
  difference between shorts and. Long.
• 1:38:37
  Form, long form and all the different platforms and it's
• 1:38:41
  like how much you'd people don't understand the amount of time
• 1:38:46
  the people that are doing well at it and growing, they don't
• 1:38:50
  understand how much time goes into creating the specific
• 1:38:54
  content for the specific platform for sure, because it's
• 1:38:57
  not all the same. Yeah, and I mean, I think that
• 1:39:01
  it's really interesting being in the content space and I put my
• 1:39:05
  first video on the Internet in 2007.
• 1:39:07
  I created bike content from 2007 to through 13.
• 1:39:11
  So I've been doing the Internet game a long time and we've been
• 1:39:14
  doing this since 2018. But I think a lot of folks who
• 1:39:20
  aren't in content, they just assume that the videos edit
• 1:39:25
  themselves. They put themselves up.
• 1:39:27
  All that happens on its own. But like a trip like this for
• 1:39:30
  example, where we come and we film 3 full length videos with
• 1:39:34
  you and a podcast, then we're going to go film with Paige,
• 1:39:37
  probably at least three full length videos and a podcast.
• 1:39:40
  We're going to come home. And I mean, just on editing, not
• 1:39:44
  including the photo stuff she's got to do and the thumbnail she
• 1:39:47
  has to make for it. I'm going to be in what I call
• 1:39:49
  dungeon days where I'm at the computer editing 12 hours for
• 1:39:54
  days and days and days to get through all this footage while
• 1:39:59
  making the long form version, seeing the good shorts and
• 1:40:03
  cutting those out. You know, finding the funny
• 1:40:06
  stuff and putting it here and there.
• 1:40:07
  Like it's a lot of time and effort.
• 1:40:10
  Not to mention the time it took and the money it took to drive
• 1:40:14
  all the way up here. And film all the stuff that
• 1:40:17
  takes time too, and then drive all the way back and then like
• 1:40:22
  it it. I think unless you do it, you
• 1:40:25
  have no idea the amount of workload and time it takes.
• 1:40:29
  I think we're we're really fortunate is this is I love
• 1:40:33
  making videos and I love having fun shooting bows and I love
• 1:40:37
  hunting. So I would do it either way.
• 1:40:41
  It just has happened that we've done it for long enough and
• 1:40:43
  grown enough to now it is something we're able to do for a
• 1:40:48
  living, but that the effort was the same when we weren't making
• 1:40:52
  anything. And I think if people don't have
• 1:40:55
  that passion to do it for five years or more for free to get to
• 1:41:00
  that point, it's probably never going to pan out.
• 1:41:04
  Right. And one viral video doesn't do
• 1:41:06
  it. No way.
• 1:41:07
  At all. And I mean, you know, like right
• 1:41:10
  now Facebook has the highest ad Rev and Facebook has the highest
• 1:41:14
  per view rate, but which they're owned by Meta, but which is this
• 1:41:21
  part is weird, but Facebook is also restricting the most
• 1:41:25
  accounts, but is Instagram's not.
• 1:41:28
  So you're like, wait a second, you're owned by the same dude.
• 1:41:30
  Yeah, what's wrong with you? But Facebook it right now
• 1:41:34
  because they're trying to recompete because some of their,
• 1:41:37
  you know, things that they've tried to have failed.
• 1:41:42
  And so Facebook is trying to, you know, and let's be honest,
• 1:41:46
  the people on Facebook are the people with money.
• 1:41:49
  Sorry. Like you can love Instagram and
• 1:41:51
  you can love TikTok and YouTube's not bad.
• 1:41:54
  But dude, Facebook is an older demographic that has money, but
• 1:41:59
  they're the most restrictive. So they're ad Revs the highest.
• 1:42:01
  They're per view rate for content creators is the highest,
• 1:42:09
  but they restrict hunting a bunch.
• 1:42:11
  So it's like, who the hell is running Facebook versus who's
• 1:42:14
  running Instagram? Like what?
• 1:42:16
  And so, but yeah, I mean, folks understanding what it really
• 1:42:21
  takes it. It's not like people think like
• 1:42:23
  I've been doing this so long, I don't give a shit no more.
• 1:42:27
  So what I post on Instagram is the same as what goes to
• 1:42:29
  Facebook. I don't care.
• 1:42:32
  I'm not, I'm not doing. That's not why I'm doing it.
• 1:42:36
  And so you know, plus I'm on like my freaking third Instagram
• 1:42:40
  and I've been shadow banned for fucking years at a time.
• 1:42:43
  But anyway, that's a whole other podcast.
• 1:42:46
  And so for, for folks like you and the folks that are looking
• 1:42:50
  at you, like when you said, well, if, if Bo disciples is
• 1:42:53
  step one, I would probably put you guys more on Step 2 than
• 1:42:57
  step one simply because of the monetization effort, not just on
• 1:43:01
  social media monetization, but contract monetization, website
• 1:43:05
  monetization swag. Like you guys have made it not
• 1:43:10
  over the mountain, but you've made it over the hump.
• 1:43:14
  And so now you're to the point. And this is something I don't
• 1:43:17
  know if it was you or whoever I was talking to when I was like,
• 1:43:21
  plan on losing money for several years.
• 1:43:24
  You have to invest in it, the travel, the this, the that the
• 1:43:27
  other and you guys are now, you know I'm not.
• 1:43:30
  Yeah, and I'm not, Yeah, I'm not your accountant.
• 1:43:33
  But you're to the point now where you're, you're going to be
• 1:43:38
  damn near, you know, in the black if you're not already in
• 1:43:43
  the black. The scales have tipped one way
• 1:43:46
  but it took. My point is, like the scale,
• 1:43:49
  once it tips, it tips a lot faster than it took to get it to
• 1:43:55
  tip. And I think a lot of folks
• 1:43:57
  unfortunately don't have the persistence, the passion or the
• 1:44:01
  drive to do it. And I always say to me, the
• 1:44:05
  biggest reason why I think our our program has worked and will
• 1:44:10
  continue to work and grow is because I've always been by
• 1:44:16
  nature super persistent. And I think that persistence is
• 1:44:22
  something that is lacking a lot of times and people wanting to
• 1:44:25
  create a career on content, they might have a great two or three
• 1:44:30
  month run, but then there's nothing that just doesn't, it
• 1:44:34
  doesn't work. The algorithm almost resets you
• 1:44:37
  every. Time, Literally what I was just
• 1:44:38
  going to say yes, the folks that think that there's only one
• 1:44:42
  person I know that cannot post for three months and post and
• 1:44:47
  shit blows right up and that's David Goggins.
• 1:44:51
  David Gog is the only guy that can disappear for a couple
• 1:44:53
  months and then make a post motherfucking everybody in the
• 1:44:55
  world and it just blows up. He's about it.
• 1:44:58
  Everybody else, especially the people that we're talking about,
• 1:45:01
  they need to understand how that algorithm works.
• 1:45:03
  They need to understand that the consistency of posting is a real
• 1:45:10
  thing. Like create it, vault it,
• 1:45:15
  schedule it. And I I know 10-12 years ago
• 1:45:18
  when I was really into it, the scheduling mechanisms on Meta
• 1:45:22
  sucked donkey balls. They're still not very good.
• 1:45:27
  Yeah, YouTube is. A lot better now.
• 1:45:29
  And it is, it's all definitely better, but the whole concept of
• 1:45:34
  Meta being there so you can like, you know, schedule from
• 1:45:37
  Instagram and Facebook all in one location, man.
• 1:45:40
  Yeah, there was third party apps when I was doing and they said
• 1:45:43
  they would crash all the time and then you shit would never
• 1:45:44
  post. So if that's not much better,
• 1:45:47
  that's kind of disappointing but not surprising.
• 1:45:49
  But. Can still schedule and so it's
• 1:45:52
  like. Yeah.
• 1:45:54
  You just have to put and James knows because he's a million
• 1:45:57
  light years better than I am, you know, like light years.
• 1:46:02
  But it's like we know people that suffer from it.
• 1:46:05
  And when we use the word algorithm and everybody, you
• 1:46:09
  know, when you hear algorithm, like it's just kind of a sense
• 1:46:11
  of understanding, like what you know, you understand what
• 1:46:15
  algorithm means. But like it is literally this
• 1:46:19
  coding mathematician math problem.
• 1:46:24
  It's a living Organism. To the computer, correct?
• 1:46:27
  It's a real physical thing like this on the screen that you
• 1:46:32
  can't see happening every single time your post goes up.
• 1:46:38
  And so it's not just like this blase faire word that's being
• 1:46:43
  thrown out here and there. It's an actual thing.
• 1:46:46
  It's not the Matrix seeing it. Yeah, this is not the Matrix,
• 1:46:49
  but it looks. Like the matrix?
• 1:46:51
  You know, scrolling through the inside of your computer, you
• 1:46:55
  know, taking data from your post and saying, OK, you know, this
• 1:47:00
  is what you talk to. Like it's literally can listen
• 1:47:02
  to you. Every word, every everything.
• 1:47:04
  Everything and then on top of that, it's then going back and
• 1:47:08
  seeing per second like how many views it's getting.
• 1:47:11
  And all of this is coded and likes and comments and you know,
• 1:47:15
  whatever all of this is getting sucked into this math problem
• 1:47:20
  that's going on behind your computer screen and saying, OK,
• 1:47:24
  it's going to get seen a little bit more the next time and you
• 1:47:27
  know, for layman's terms and a little bit more the next time.
• 1:47:29
  Well, as soon as you stop, it's also taking that into account.
• 1:47:34
  Like that's how in depth this math from, I've never seen the
• 1:47:37
  math from, but it exists over there in math and it's taking
• 1:47:41
  that non posting time into account and it's essentially
• 1:47:46
  just like you not doing your homework in the next day.
• 1:47:49
  It's saying Nope, here's no star for you today on your math
• 1:47:53
  problem, like we're sending you back down the list.
• 1:47:57
  And it and, and one of the things I find even for myself
• 1:48:02
  can be discouraging. And I know a lot of people deal
• 1:48:06
  with this, especially people that haven't done it as long.
• 1:48:09
  But what happens is, I call it waves of how your stuff is sent
• 1:48:16
  out and engaged with. So sometimes everything you're
• 1:48:20
  posting on YouTube will be banging, getting great views,
• 1:48:24
  great likes, great comments. And then all of a sudden you'll
• 1:48:28
  go through a phase where like 10 videos in a row, they're doing
• 1:48:31
  better than they did when you were small, but they're not
• 1:48:33
  doing as good as that run of 10 that was slaying.
• 1:48:36
  And you're like looking at them. You're like, the content is
• 1:48:38
  actually quite similar. That can be very discouraging to
• 1:48:42
  creators. And what I took me a long time,
• 1:48:46
  I used to study the stats and analytics so, so much and be so
• 1:48:50
  tied to the numbers and I still know them really well.
• 1:48:53
  But if a video or a series of videos is not pumping like they
• 1:48:59
  were two months ago, I have learned that you just have to
• 1:49:02
  ride the wave and keep keep going, stay persistent and keep
• 1:49:06
  going and it will come out. And what happens is it's like a
• 1:49:09
  real estate wave. It goes in waves like this,
• 1:49:12
  right? So you're low wave this time is
• 1:49:14
  higher than your low wave. That time.
• 1:49:16
  Your high wave here is higher than the high wave here.
• 1:49:19
  The worst thing you can do is get to those moments where your
• 1:49:22
  Instagram posts are not getting as many likes or engagement as
• 1:49:25
  they used to. The worst thing you can do is
• 1:49:28
  stop because you're discouraged. The best thing you can do is hit
• 1:49:33
  the Nos button and post more. I have found double down and I
• 1:49:37
  think the quicker you learn that hey it's a machine you can go
• 1:49:41
  look look at the reach. Not as many people saw it,
• 1:49:44
  that's why the numbers are lower.
• 1:49:46
  Don't get discouraged, just keep pumping stuff out and it will.
• 1:49:52
  The wave will go up. Right.
• 1:49:53
  Well, and what a lot of thing, what people don't understand is
• 1:49:55
  1, everybody has a ranking on this algorithm ranks everybody
• 1:49:59
  and it's ranked on your, on your frequency of posting.
• 1:50:04
  And that's like I tell everybody if you're posting on YouTube or
• 1:50:07
  Facebook, don't type the word. YouTube.
• 1:50:10
  Oh no, definitely not. They consider that's a
• 1:50:12
  competitor. If you type the word YouTube in
• 1:50:16
  your Facebook or your Instagram post, your reach is getting
• 1:50:19
  restricted competitor. If you put a, if you, if you
• 1:50:23
  take this podcast and you take I don't know what service you use.
• 1:50:26
  I use Libsyn, but whatever. And if you just post a, a Libsyn
• 1:50:30
  link or a straight link to a YouTube, ain't nobody seeing
• 1:50:34
  that shit because it's taking them off platform.
• 1:50:38
  Just they're going to restrict you sending somebody off of
• 1:50:43
  their platform. Yeah, it goes as I I learned
• 1:50:46
  this recently, it goes as far as in depth as because it used to
• 1:50:51
  just be the platform that you post the content on.
• 1:50:53
  Well, it's now it's even the platform that you make the
• 1:50:55
  content off. So like I use cap cut which I
• 1:50:59
  believe is through. So it's owned by TikTok?
• 1:51:02
  So if you go to post on Instagram, you know, it
• 1:51:07
  recognizes who exported metadata that short from Yep, that
• 1:51:11
  metadata exists and you can't go in and manipulate it, you know,
• 1:51:15
  And so like James uses, you know, he stays to just third
• 1:51:18
  party not associated. He uses splice.
• 1:51:22
  Instagram came out with edits. So if you use edits, they're
• 1:51:26
  going to prompt you more in the algorithm because you're using
• 1:51:30
  their editing software. And so it's it's very in in
• 1:51:34
  depth, but the matter of the fact is it I don't care two ways
• 1:51:38
  to Sunday whether you're using cap cut, edit, splice, whatever.
• 1:51:42
  But are you at least just at minimum what you can do
• 1:51:45
  yourself? It's still post, you know, like,
• 1:51:51
  sure, take the hit if you enjoy cap cut more than splice.
• 1:51:56
  I find cap cut has way more transitions and they're
• 1:51:59
  captioning features light years better.
• 1:52:02
  I have not tried edits, but you know, so if you find 1 you enjoy
• 1:52:06
  more and you're able to use it more comfortably, so you're
• 1:52:10
  going to be able to get through that edit process quicker and
• 1:52:13
  not get discouraged because you don't know how in the hell you
• 1:52:16
  to use the editing, you know, thing you downloaded, then who
• 1:52:21
  cares? Use the one you're comfortable
• 1:52:22
  with because it's going to make you feel more comfortable and
• 1:52:26
  editing and getting the content out.
• 1:52:28
  So I don't think you should care as much as about like, you know,
• 1:52:33
  getting it off cap cut. Now you could shortwave things
• 1:52:36
  and you could screen record what you then it doesn't know which
• 1:52:38
  one you got it from. But yeah, it's just, I don't
• 1:52:43
  think even though it is in depth, you should start
• 1:52:47
  analyzing it that depth because what's the phrase you always
• 1:52:49
  use? Analysis by paralysis.
• 1:52:52
  Paralysis by analysis. I said it.
• 1:52:54
  Backwards, but analysis paralysis is a real thing.
• 1:52:56
  Oh. Big time.
• 1:52:57
  So if you start getting into this, you know, oh, I don't know
• 1:53:00
  what editing do I need to go edit one on edits for Instagram
• 1:53:03
  and cap cut for TikTok and slow your roll like paralysis by
• 1:53:08
  analysis. Just edit.
• 1:53:11
  Just edit it and post it or just edit it and schedule it because
• 1:53:15
  at that point, your, your, your paralysis is gone, you know, and
• 1:53:20
  you're just getting the work in and that's what's going to
• 1:53:24
  create or improve consistency. And then determination and
• 1:53:28
  confidence comes with it. And then you'll see the numbers
• 1:53:31
  improve. But as soon as you start diving
• 1:53:34
  down, I've had so many conversations over the last year
• 1:53:37
  of not just the editing programs, but like you said,
• 1:53:41
  this person said, I need to use this camera and I got to go buy
• 1:53:43
  this lens and I need this ND filter.
• 1:53:45
  And I didn't, you know, learn how to color Gray before I post
• 1:53:48
  it. I'm like, oh Jesus Christ, I'd,
• 1:53:51
  I can't listen to you any longer.
• 1:53:52
  Just please stop talking. It's much because at the end of
• 1:53:56
  the day, you just talked my ear off about all these things that
• 1:53:58
  need to be done once. Last time you posted a video as
• 1:54:03
  you were talking about all that stuff, you kept talking and you
• 1:54:05
  weren't working, you know, and it blows my mind away.
• 1:54:10
  I do have a couple other ones that still go along with this
• 1:54:12
  for the smaller channels if you know you'd like to keep going.
• 1:54:16
  No, go for it. Yeah, I think we're we're pretty
• 1:54:18
  deep in here, so. Yeah.
• 1:54:20
  So if you want to end with these ones in this topic, we can.
• 1:54:23
  I just know, you know, like we had the same question from Andre
• 1:54:27
  with privilege BH as well, because he's he obviously lives
• 1:54:30
  in Hawaii. He's getting out of the the Navy
• 1:54:32
  in a few years. He's going to be coming back
• 1:54:35
  stateside very soon here. And he was like, you know, as my
• 1:54:38
  channel starting to grow and take off more and more.
• 1:54:41
  What's your opinions? He asked us.
• 1:54:44
  And so and Lou, I'm going to ask you on going to these trade
• 1:54:48
  shows and things like tack and and talking to companies face to
• 1:54:53
  face that do you think that truly like benefits me in any
• 1:54:57
  way? Like should I spend the money to
• 1:54:59
  go to these things? My sister asked the same
• 1:55:01
  questions, you know, like she was going to go to one up in
• 1:55:04
  Pennsylvania just a couple or this this week.
• 1:55:06
  I think what's going on? She's like, I, you know, I don't
• 1:55:11
  know, like would it would it benefit me to talk to them face
• 1:55:15
  to face and then to meet me and whatnot?
• 1:55:17
  What are your thoughts? Like, you know, 'cause I'm sure
• 1:55:21
  you've been at a booth when like a maybe a teeny bopper channel
• 1:55:25
  comes by and is like, hey, I'm such and such with, you know,
• 1:55:28
  grassroots channel. Like I, I've been using Beast
• 1:55:31
  for, you know, two years now. Do you think that helps or hurts
• 1:55:38
  or is awash like? Well, I guess the the easy
• 1:55:44
  answer for that is, is it is it easier to to go to somewhere
• 1:55:50
  social and pick up a woman and go on a date or is it easier
• 1:55:54
  just to call her and try to get her to go on a date?
• 1:55:57
  Is there just call her? I don't know, isn't it easier to
• 1:55:59
  just call her right? No, absolutely not.
• 1:56:03
  If, if, if, if, if a guy not you, you're engaged.
• 1:56:07
  But for a woman, if a guy just randomly calls you out of the
• 1:56:10
  blue and asks you out on a date, what are you going to say?
• 1:56:13
  Oh yeah, I get where I get this now.
• 1:56:15
  Yes. No.
• 1:56:16
  Where is it correct? Whereas if a guy, yeah, Whereas
• 1:56:19
  if a guy walks up to you in the bar and you actually get to see
• 1:56:21
  him interact with them and read his body language and you're
• 1:56:25
  much more inclined to be receptive.
• 1:56:27
  So the answer to that is positively lutely 1 all of the
• 1:56:32
  percentages. That's OK, I answered the
• 1:56:34
  metaphor wrong here, but I gave him the right answer.
• 1:56:36
  Correct Yes, absolutely. If you're cold calling or cold
• 1:56:41
  emailing, you're fucked. Just stop.
• 1:56:45
  So stop. Yeah, stop.
• 1:56:49
  You're not going to get no stop. You're wasting everyone.
• 1:56:52
  Stop. I don't even when I get and I
• 1:56:54
  would spend this way for a lot of years when I get the to whom
• 1:56:57
  it may concern through the customer service or sales at
• 1:57:02
  company e-mail delete, yeah. No, that's good to.
• 1:57:10
  So that's good to go to the events.
• 1:57:14
  And yes, I've had thousands of people come up to me at events
• 1:57:17
  over the last 20 years and shoot their shot.
• 1:57:22
  And the only shot you don't make is the one you don't take.
• 1:57:25
  So many phrases this podcast I felt need to quote them all.
• 1:57:29
  Well, I've been known to throw a couple out there, but if you're
• 1:57:33
  not doing it in person, you're not doing it all.
• 1:57:36
  So, and that's not to say you walk up and you just give them
• 1:57:40
  your 32nd elevator media, you know, pitch.
• 1:57:45
  But you, you make a connection. And the best way to do it that I
• 1:57:49
  have ever seen is #1 if you're going, we'll just use, well,
• 1:57:56
  we'll just use Broadheads. Since I work for Broadhead
• 1:57:58
  company. If you're going to a trade show
• 1:58:01
  or attack or a whatever, and you're like, I want to, I want
• 1:58:07
  to get a broadhead sponsorship or I want to start a
• 1:58:09
  relationship with a broadhead company.
• 1:58:11
  So I'm going to go talk to seven of them.
• 1:58:14
  Don't talk to me. Don't come talk to me.
• 1:58:18
  I'll sniff you out. And now dude, you're no, if you
• 1:58:22
  want to make a connection like that, first of all, find a brand
• 1:58:26
  that aligns with you, Find a brand that aligns with you, use
• 1:58:31
  their product, tag them in social media.
• 1:58:34
  They're not going to most of the person you're going to talk to
• 1:58:37
  is not going to see you not going to see you tag them
• 1:58:39
  because it's generally you're not talking to the same person.
• 1:58:43
  But let's just use Beast, for instance.
• 1:58:46
  If you were going to, if you wanted to get a relationship
• 1:58:48
  going with Beast, first of all, you better be using the product
• 1:58:51
  because I'm a Dick. And my very first question I'm
• 1:58:54
  going to ask you is, and I ask it all the time is what are you
• 1:58:57
  shooting right now? And if you tell me you're
• 1:59:00
  shooting another Broadhead? Yeah.
• 1:59:04
  Nice to meet you. It kind of already answers the
• 1:59:06
  question, you know? Deuces.
• 1:59:10
  But if you come up to a guy like me at a show or attack or Vegas
• 1:59:16
  or ATA and you're like, Hey, I'm James Vesser from Bo Disciples
• 1:59:23
  and I'm like, Hey, what's up buddy?
• 1:59:25
  And you say, hey, man, just wanted to meet you.
• 1:59:27
  I'm a fan of the product, man. You should go check out my
• 1:59:30
  social media, man, I had such good results with the beast last
• 1:59:34
  year. You know, I'm not out there
• 1:59:37
  shooting, but like for you, it'd be a great example.
• 1:59:40
  Look, man, I'm not out there shooting 200 inch whitetail
• 1:59:42
  every other day, but man, I'm, I'm having fun with that.
• 1:59:45
  I'm out in Arizona shooting heavies and you know, chasing
• 1:59:49
  Coos and stuff. But man, I had a great I had AI
• 1:59:52
  had I had a good year last year. I really enjoy your product.
• 1:59:56
  You should just go check out my go check out my social media and
• 2:00:00
  let me know what you think. Here's my card with my social
• 2:00:04
  media on it and my e-mail. I'll put that bitch in my pocket
• 2:00:08
  and then you just kick rocks. Don't sit around there and and
• 2:00:12
  glaze nobody. Don't sit around there and make
• 2:00:15
  it awkward. Take your shot.
• 2:00:18
  Kick rocks. You said what you had to say.
• 2:00:21
  Don't be a creeper. Don't.
• 2:00:23
  Don't be a foamer. Don't sit there and try to Jack
• 2:00:27
  the company off. That shit's not going to work.
• 2:00:29
  Come in, establish who you are, establish that you've already
• 2:00:35
  tried the product and then validate both of those with the
• 2:00:39
  fact that hey, go check out my social media dude.
• 2:00:42
  I actually used your, I tagged you guys in it, but go check out
• 2:00:45
  my social media, man. I had a couple really good hunts
• 2:00:47
  with your product. I, I enjoyed it, man.
• 2:00:50
  Here you go. Nice to meet you big dude or
• 2:00:52
  whatever what people would call me, they call me all kinds of
• 2:00:54
  shit. I appreciate your time and.
• 2:00:58
  Then keep it moving. Get to stepping, You know, high
• 2:01:02
  stepping. If I don't want the conversation
• 2:01:04
  to be over, I won't let it be over.
• 2:01:08
  If I don't have anything else to do and you have piqued my
• 2:01:11
  interest, I'm not going to let you walk away.
• 2:01:16
  Then you're in there like swimwear.
• 2:01:18
  Now it's up to you not to fuck it up, but get in there,
• 2:01:23
  establish a few things. Have you?
• 2:01:25
  This is one thing like for me, when I give you my business
• 2:01:30
  card, it has my name, my e-mail, and my phone number.
• 2:01:36
  But I'm not doing what you guys do.
• 2:01:38
  Put your put your social links on your God damn business card
• 2:01:43
  for fuck's sake. Put your name, address, Put not
• 2:01:46
  address. Put your name, phone number,
• 2:01:48
  e-mail on the front. Put your socials on the back so
• 2:01:50
  I don't have to search your ass down.
• 2:01:52
  Yeah, that's smart. Make it easy for Christ's sake.
• 2:01:55
  That's a pro. Move.
• 2:01:56
  Help me out. Help me, help me help you if I
• 2:02:00
  got a search because you know how it goes.
• 2:02:02
  Oh yeah, look me up on Bo disciples.
• 2:02:05
  Oh, I'm Bo under score W under score back slash under score
• 2:02:09
  disciple under score S under score.
• 2:02:12
  Bitch, I'm never going to find you.
• 2:02:13
  And when I look two or three times and I can't, I'm out.
• 2:02:18
  Put your damn thing on the back of your card.
• 2:02:20
  Come in. Establish those 3 four things.
• 2:02:23
  Kick rocks. Well, I think it's so smart that
• 2:02:26
  you say, because when you think like a business card, it's like
• 2:02:30
  how many people hand those out anymore?
• 2:02:31
  But if your goal is to go to these things and and meet people
• 2:02:37
  and like you said, you know, a brand that you actually align
• 2:02:41
  with, believe in, have used, don't go stop by all the bow
• 2:02:46
  companies trying to get a bow sponsor.
• 2:02:49
  But if that is your goal and you're like, I want, I freaking
• 2:02:54
  love beast and I want a freaking beast sponsorship.
• 2:02:57
  And I feel like at this point I've earned it.
• 2:02:59
  You know, my numbers align. I've done my research.
• 2:03:04
  Did you show up with anything like so they can remember you,
• 2:03:09
  you know, if it's no. Well, yeah.
• 2:03:14
  Do you think they're going to remember your Bo Capital LM
• 2:03:17
  under score 75276? No.
• 2:03:21
  Absolutely not. I'm not even going to try.
• 2:03:23
  I won't even write it down. Yeah.
• 2:03:25
  And then on top of that, if you don't know this, like at a trade
• 2:03:31
  show at attack, these are different jobs.
• 2:03:34
  The marketing guy is not the sales Rep guy.
• 2:03:37
  Not all the time, especially with bigger companies, you know,
• 2:03:41
  it's the sales Rep that is going to the shoot or the.
• 2:03:46
  To tax, Yes or? Yeah, not like the TA, whatever
• 2:03:50
  they might the. Reps are there too, but.
• 2:03:52
  Yeah, you don't know unless 1 You ask who you're talking to or
• 2:03:58
  you've done your research and like you know their name.
• 2:03:59
  You did some real, real digging, I guess.
• 2:04:02
  I don't know you LinkedIn the shit out of that.
• 2:04:04
  But if you don't know who you're talking to and you're talking to
• 2:04:08
  the sales guy, give them something so that they can hand
• 2:04:14
  it off to their marketing guy if they felt you were interesting
• 2:04:17
  or authentic. Don't ever do that.
• 2:04:18
  They felt you aligned. Don't ever do.
• 2:04:20
  That no, don't ever do that. So like.
• 2:04:24
  The right guys, the right guy, unless on a very rare occasion,
• 2:04:29
  the right guy is never going to get your card unless you hand it
• 2:04:32
  to him yourself. That's what I'm saying.
• 2:04:34
  Because you're not, because you're not just handing off the
• 2:04:37
  card, The card is the conclusion to your setup.
• 2:04:41
  And your setup was, hey, I'm James Visser with Beau
• 2:04:46
  Disciples, man, great to meet you.
• 2:04:48
  I'm a fan of the product. I had a great year last year,
• 2:04:52
  put down some dope heavies, got some good footage.
• 2:04:55
  You should go check out my channel.
• 2:04:57
  I tagged beast but go check out my channel and dude, I'm a fan
• 2:05:01
  of the product man you guys did really good.
• 2:05:03
  Here's my card bounce. So the card is simply the
• 2:05:09
  conclusion to your setup, but your setup is not going to get
• 2:05:12
  translated from a Rep to the proper person.
• 2:05:15
  Most of the time your business card's not going to go from the
• 2:05:19
  Rep to the proper person. So what you want to do is put
• 2:05:23
  some James Vista in your mouth and get persistent and
• 2:05:26
  disciplined and you come back if if you come by the beast booth
• 2:05:30
  and you're like, hey, is your, is your marketing who, who
• 2:05:34
  handles your monster, your marketing sponsorships and
• 2:05:37
  stuff. Oh yeah, that's Big Greg.
• 2:05:40
  I don't see a big person here. When, When?
• 2:05:43
  Oh well, you know his miles per gallon sucks.
• 2:05:45
  So he's eating for the 4th time today.
• 2:05:47
  He'll probably be back in an hour in 45 minutes.
• 2:05:50
  Come back and wait. And when you see Big Greg come
• 2:05:55
  back, or if it's Derek Phillips, or if it's whoever at Bow Tech
• 2:05:59
  or whoever it is, you come back enough times to where the shot
• 2:06:04
  you take is with the right person.
• 2:06:07
  Because the shot you take with the wrong person isn't a shot at
• 2:06:10
  all. Yeah.
• 2:06:12
  And well said then people, people go to, I mean, I've been
• 2:06:17
  getting media kits for 20 years and for television shows and
• 2:06:23
  stuff, I get it. But literally giving someone a
• 2:06:28
  media kit right off the bat in today's market, once you get to
• 2:06:34
  a certain level of court, you know, of course, like if you ask
• 2:06:37
  Lee and Tiffany for a media kit, they're going to laugh at you.
• 2:06:40
  We don't have those anymore. We're fucking Lee and Tiffany.
• 2:06:42
  Yeah, get it? Someone who is probably just
• 2:06:48
  below your level, like the ground or level step one,
• 2:06:52
  probably not going to need a media kit at that point either.
• 2:06:55
  You're getting to the stage now where your stage and a couple
• 2:06:58
  steps above you. That's the, that's the middle
• 2:07:01
  ground. That's the, that's the media kit
• 2:07:03
  levels. Yeah.
• 2:07:05
  Jim Shockey and Lee Lukowski and Michael Waddell.
• 2:07:08
  They'll leave that shit. You asked them for a you know
• 2:07:11
  what? Cam Haynes.
• 2:07:12
  Let's call Cam right now. Hey, Cam, send me over your
• 2:07:14
  media kit. He's going to go.
• 2:07:15
  My what? Or you don't you want to work
• 2:07:19
  with me or? Else and so that's the main
• 2:07:22
  thing is understanding how to get the opportunity to shoot
• 2:07:28
  your shot with the right person. And it might take you, it might
• 2:07:31
  take you three tries at the beast booth until you get face
• 2:07:36
  to face with my with my ugly ass.
• 2:07:39
  But don't waste your shot on someone that's just going to
• 2:07:43
  have to up channel it anyway. Because then one, it gives you
• 2:07:47
  false hope and #2 you ain't shooting your shot to the right
• 2:07:51
  person. Yeah.
• 2:07:53
  And so then like if, and this has happened shit and dozens
• 2:07:57
  like hundreds of times, I'll come back to the booth, whether
• 2:07:59
  it was vein companies or whatever it was, I'll come back
• 2:08:03
  to the booth and they'll be like, hey, this couple has come
• 2:08:07
  by looking for you 3 times. We told him you'd be back in an
• 2:08:10
  hour. I'm like OK.
• 2:08:15
  And they never come back. And they never come back.
• 2:08:18
  And I don't, I don't ask their name, I don't say who was it, I
• 2:08:21
  don't say none of that. But someone will say, hey, there
• 2:08:25
  was this couple, this short chick and this other dude with a
• 2:08:28
  mullet. In which case I'd be like, a
• 2:08:31
  mullet would pique my interest. But I'd be like, oh, OK, think
• 2:08:38
  twice about that shit. I got other stuff to do.
• 2:08:40
  But then guess what? When a short chick and a guy
• 2:08:44
  with a mullet comes walking up, the first words out of my mouth,
• 2:08:48
  because I'm, I'm not new to this, is I'm going to be like,
• 2:08:51
  you guys have stopped by a couple times today, huh?
• 2:08:55
  Yes, Sir. Yeah.
• 2:08:56
  What do you got going on? And then you get to shoot your
• 2:08:58
  shot. Exactly.
• 2:08:59
  And then you. So I know you've came by several
• 2:09:01
  times because you've intentionally made sure to, one,
• 2:09:04
  find out who the right person to talk to is and #2 you have been
• 2:09:09
  disciplined enough to make sure that the only person you shoot
• 2:09:13
  your shot with is the right person to shoot your shot with.
• 2:09:17
  And if you never get a chance to talk to me, fuck, there's then
• 2:09:20
  there's the next event. The next event.
• 2:09:23
  Persistence and discipline and and when you get a chance to do
• 2:09:27
  that and then you kick rocks. Like I said, if I don't want the
• 2:09:30
  conversation to be over, I won't let it be over.
• 2:09:34
  But if the conversation is over and I got other shit to do, I'll
• 2:09:38
  let you walk away. But I'm going to look at your
• 2:09:41
  card and I'm going to be like, dude, I've come home for the ATA
• 2:09:46
  with 70 business cards before. Wow.
• 2:09:50
  Yeah, it's a lot to sift through.
• 2:09:52
  No it's not. It kept 5.
• 2:09:53
  Kept 5. There you go.
• 2:09:55
  Easy to whittle them down. Yeah, because.
• 2:09:56
  You meet them in person again like that, that authenticity and
• 2:10:00
  that organicness of that person, like the marketing person
• 2:10:03
  hopefully is a marketing person for a reason.
• 2:10:07
  And when you come up and you meet them in person, you kind of
• 2:10:11
  already you work for in whoever you hope works for that company
• 2:10:15
  for a reason. You know, if that company is
• 2:10:19
  going to want to work with somebody like that, if they
• 2:10:21
  intrigue them enough to want to work with them, all those things
• 2:10:24
  like just by meeting them and talking to them face to face can
• 2:10:28
  start to align. But I think so many people, what
• 2:10:32
  you're describing, and James would agree, he knows at least
• 2:10:35
  one specific person, are so scared of those steps right
• 2:10:39
  there. And if you you don't know what
• 2:10:43
  you don't try. You know you can't succeed.
• 2:10:47
  Got to let the break. Don't try.
• 2:10:48
  Yeah. And that step stops, I think,
• 2:10:54
  90% of the people from succeeding.
• 2:10:57
  I'm also like, well, maybe you weren't not saying meant to
• 2:11:00
  succeed, but like if you weren't persistent enough, were you ever
• 2:11:04
  meant to get there? Yeah, if you're afraid to do
• 2:11:06
  that, then you're afraid. Then you're too afraid to
• 2:11:08
  succeed anyway. And all you can do is ask.
• 2:11:11
  And all someone can say is no, you're not asking them out on a
• 2:11:13
  date. But it's.
• 2:11:14
  Also, the only time they can say yes, right?
• 2:11:16
  Correct. And that's so important as you
• 2:11:18
  got to ask the question to get a yes or a note.
• 2:11:21
  But one way or the other, you have an answer, right?
• 2:11:24
  And if you never ask and leave the bat on your shoulder, like I
• 2:11:27
  said, you're going to watch 3 strikes go by and go right back
• 2:11:30
  to where you came from. You have nothing to lose,
• 2:11:32
  correct? This is something you have to
• 2:11:34
  learn when you're 21 trying to get girls for the first time.
• 2:11:37
  You got to try with a whole bunch, you know?
• 2:11:41
  He's not saying go try with a whole bunch of companies though.
• 2:11:43
  Don't. Miss it dude.
• 2:11:44
  I mean look look, I didn't get to this point just because I'm
• 2:11:48
  an asshole. I've literally received emails
• 2:11:53
  that were addressed to a competitor because they were
• 2:11:57
  fishing, fishing with APH. That means sending shit to
• 2:12:03
  everybody hoping to land something.
• 2:12:06
  And I'm just like, fucking you, couldn't you?
• 2:12:10
  You forgot to change the name and the company, and so you're
• 2:12:15
  sending these to. Yeah, no.
• 2:12:18
  And so, you know, that's part of the problem that we have in our
• 2:12:21
  spaces. So many people have gotten some
• 2:12:24
  form of luck without the without the personal interaction of it.
• 2:12:30
  And so, you know, all the stuff that I'm saying is not, and I
• 2:12:34
  didn't make it up. It's, it's just from years and
• 2:12:37
  years of learned behavior. And I'm probably the easiest and
• 2:12:44
  the hardest. I'm probably the easiest and the
• 2:12:47
  hardest person all at the same time when it comes to having
• 2:12:51
  these conversations with, with fresh folk.
• 2:12:54
  Like you remember when we had our conversation, I went outside
• 2:12:58
  and probably not many marketing people asked you the kind of
• 2:13:01
  questions that I did about your future and who like all I asked
• 2:13:06
  for all of it because I'm asking questions that I want to know.
• 2:13:09
  And so I'm, I'm the easiest because I understand the process
• 2:13:14
  and I'm the hardest because I'm going to ask you real shit.
• 2:13:19
  And if you can't answer those questions, that's a red flag for
• 2:13:22
  me. And you know, that's just,
• 2:13:25
  that's just what it is. But there is nothing for free
• 2:13:27
  out here. And whether you know, back to
• 2:13:30
  the 100,000 Subs and all that, those numbers are cool.
• 2:13:35
  But man, just do a little bit of research and you'll see all
• 2:13:37
  kinds of pages on YouTube and Instagram and Facebook that are
• 2:13:41
  fucking monstrous pages and they get 12 likes and no comment.
• 2:13:46
  Dude, it's wild. Shares none.
• 2:13:48
  And so they're. Even the ones with lots of likes
• 2:13:50
  and comments at times and you're like, how I'm in the space.
• 2:13:54
  I noticed first of them, they don't seem that relevant to me
• 2:13:57
  when I see them at and then you do a little digging at the
• 2:14:00
  comments and you go, you know what, a lot of these are not
• 2:14:04
  legitimate. That's right.
• 2:14:05
  And likes can be bought too. Not on YouTube, which is a cool
• 2:14:09
  part about YouTube. Likes and well, everything but
• 2:14:11
  Instagram. A lot of Instagram.
• 2:14:14
  On Meta you can buy likes and comments.
• 2:14:16
  But Someone Like You knows how to sniff that out.
• 2:14:20
  Problem, correct? Right?
• 2:14:21
  It's not hard, no. So you're not fooling.
• 2:14:23
  You might fool people that don't know what they're doing, but
• 2:14:26
  people that know what they're doing in roles like yours,
• 2:14:30
  you're not fooling anybody. No, Well, and and I'll tell you
• 2:14:32
  another thing it. Goes back to the authenticity
• 2:14:34
  you're not being authentic to. Probably yourself, but for sure
• 2:14:38
  not with your numbers. Right.
• 2:14:39
  Well, and like so, so right now, just to use you as an example,
• 2:14:43
  you're not at the level yet that and I won't need to when, when
• 2:14:48
  we grow the relationship with with Beast to the point I won't
• 2:14:51
  have to because I already know you.
• 2:14:53
  But at your subscribers, at your social media like and subscriber
• 2:14:58
  levels. Someone who is savvy is not
• 2:15:01
  going to ask you for your demographic information when you
• 2:15:05
  get to half a million and you approach a new company.
• 2:15:10
  Like if you had half a million when we met and your shit's
• 2:15:13
  grown good since we did our thing a year and some change
• 2:15:15
  ago. If you had half a million when
• 2:15:18
  you and I had our first conversation, I would say, hey,
• 2:15:22
  so I'm going to need you to set, e-mail me your demographic
• 2:15:29
  information for sex, age, location and and a lot of people
• 2:15:36
  are going to go, yeah, I'm not doing that.
• 2:15:40
  And there's a couple reasons. Number one, if your main
• 2:15:43
  audience is girls that are 13 to 17, I don't care how many likes
• 2:15:49
  and shit you're getting. That's not, I don't, I'm not,
• 2:15:52
  I'm not shit selling shit to girls that are 13 to 17.
• 2:15:55
  But if my audience is 35 to 5097% male and mostly in
• 2:16:02
  California, Texas, Pennsylvania and New York, hey, we might be
• 2:16:07
  in business. There you have it.
• 2:16:08
  And if you're, if you're, you know, if, if 42% of your market
• 2:16:15
  for your YouTube or your whatever is in Pakistan, I know
• 2:16:19
  exactly how that happens, then I know exactly how much it cost.
• 2:16:24
  And that's something that a lot of marketing managers are afraid
• 2:16:27
  to ask and a lot of company and a lot of people in your position
• 2:16:30
  like you're smart and savvy and you're not going to do that
• 2:16:33
  after this conversation, when you get to that point, you're
• 2:16:36
  going to be like, remember what that fucking dummy pool said?
• 2:16:39
  I'm printing that shit. I'm putting that shit in my
• 2:16:41
  media kit. Actually.
• 2:16:44
  Well, we actually pulled it so the first two years, which is so
• 2:16:49
  it's so funny talking to you about it because it's like,
• 2:16:52
  yeah, you're learning on the spot.
• 2:16:53
  Like I'm no marketing agent, I'm no branding agent.
• 2:16:58
  Like you know all I'm just trying to keep him it within the
• 2:17:02
  yellow lines, you know, and sometimes we we whatever with.
• 2:17:05
  Stay in the rumble strips. Yeah, that's all I care about,
• 2:17:08
  you know, like, as long as we don't do anything too crazy, you
• 2:17:11
  do whatever you want, you know. But as far as that like side of
• 2:17:14
  the house goes, yeah, I do those things for him.
• 2:17:17
  But like I trained in it. So the first two years I was
• 2:17:22
  fighting thrown at every analytic YouTube and Instagram,
• 2:17:25
  a TikTok gave me into that media kit and it had I had pictures.
• 2:17:30
  You don't look like the female restroom like it.
• 2:17:32
  It had every analytic the age breakdowns and we went back and
• 2:17:36
  we looked at it. We're like, this is so much
• 2:17:39
  information. And I think last year was the
• 2:17:42
  first year I cut it out of the media kit.
• 2:17:46
  But it's so funny to hear from you because I wouldn't have
• 2:17:48
  known that like within our level right now, that number doesn't,
• 2:17:54
  you know, not that it doesn't quite matter, but like it
• 2:17:56
  doesn't matter. But when you're up there in that
• 2:17:59
  half a mil, well, I need to know what percentage of that half a
• 2:18:03
  mil is actually going to convert to sales on potentially like you
• 2:18:08
  might have a half a mil, but maybe only 75,000 of them.
• 2:18:13
  Apply like literally for you, all you or for anyone really.
• 2:18:17
  All you would need in your media kit is audience, male number,
• 2:18:23
  female number, age, a couple location.
• 2:18:32
  You don't need like, you know, the states.
• 2:18:34
  That's cool. I don't give a shit what states.
• 2:18:37
  I care what country. So if you say America 93%,
• 2:18:42
  that's all I need to know. That's all I need to know.
• 2:18:45
  You're in California, of course you're going to be like when I
• 2:18:48
  was talking to Cam Haynes. One of his biggest cities for
• 2:18:50
  Cam Haynes is Los Angeles. Of course it is my two biggest
• 2:18:54
  Los Angeles, my two biggest demos forever has been
• 2:18:58
  California and Texas. And they go back and forth on
• 2:19:00
  what's number one or two and #3 I could tell you is Pennsylvania
• 2:19:04
  pretty well. There's a.
• 2:19:05
  Lot of there's a lot of bow hunters.
• 2:19:07
  There, it all pops up in there. But right, California and Texas
• 2:19:10
  are #1 by a lot. And you know why?
• 2:19:12
  Because there's a shit load of people there.
• 2:19:14
  Yeah, but. America.
• 2:19:15
  But America, in America, that's the the number one thing is the,
• 2:19:19
  you know, any sponsor you're going to talk to is going to
• 2:19:22
  care about the sex demographic, which for you guys is going to
• 2:19:26
  be pretty simplistic. It's going to be 90 plus male.
• 2:19:29
  Just is what it is. If you were Jason Mamola, If you
• 2:19:32
  were, if you were Jason Mamola, maybe it would be a little,
• 2:19:37
  yeah, it'd be a little more female.
• 2:19:39
  You know what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying, yeah.
• 2:19:42
  So, yeah, yeah. So if you were Jason Momoa or
• 2:19:46
  Brad Pitt, it would be a lot more, but it would be a way more
• 2:19:48
  even. But just the sex, the basic age
• 2:19:52
  breakdown country. That's it.
• 2:19:56
  Yeah, Well, that's it. There you have it.
• 2:19:58
  I think this is easily our longest podcast ever and I
• 2:20:01
  liked. It it was well I live here so I
• 2:20:02
  have no idea how long this has been going on so.
• 2:20:05
  Long. I think it's almost almost 3
• 2:20:06
  hours. I know it's dark.
• 2:20:08
  Chatting. I think so.
• 2:20:09
  I know it's almost dark. So I appreciate you.
• 2:20:13
  Yeah, man, I'm glad we'd be happy.
• 2:20:14
  We haven't even talked about what you did the last two days
• 2:20:18
  with your bows and arrows. No, I think well, to make people
• 2:20:20
  hear about that, go to the main channel and watch the videos.
• 2:20:22
  Y'all are gonna. And you're gonna watch.
• 2:20:24
  Y'all are. It was I, I, I will say this
• 2:20:28
  thank you. I will say this.
• 2:20:30
  I have never worked. It was our worked tuned.
• 2:20:36
  I have never tuned A Bowtech with their deadlock system on
• 2:20:41
  it. That was pretty fucking handy.
• 2:20:47
  I'm not going to lie. I am.
• 2:20:50
  And I'm really happy because your, your rest was not exactly
• 2:20:55
  the easiest easy. It was not a target archery
• 2:20:59
  rest. It was a it was a not, it was a
• 2:21:01
  fall away, but it was not a fall away intended for a lot of
• 2:21:04
  movement. And so, yeah, I was pretty
• 2:21:08
  impressed with that. But you did good this weekend.
• 2:21:10
  It was great having you guys up. I've really enjoyed spending
• 2:21:12
  time with you and the the progress we made with your arrow
• 2:21:15
  build and the tune of your bow was that was fun to watch today.
• 2:21:20
  And I'm not going to, I'm not going to steal any of your, any
• 2:21:25
  of your shine, but witnessing what you were able to do today
• 2:21:30
  was that that really that inspired me a lot because I
• 2:21:34
  still remember my, my experience, my similar
• 2:21:37
  experience, and I'll never forget it.
• 2:21:40
  And so that that was cool to watch today.
• 2:21:42
  Well, dude, once again, thanks for having us.
• 2:21:44
  Thanks for all the help. I know it'll make a difference
• 2:21:46
  when we finally finished the journey to Vegas.
• 2:21:49
  And yeah, just stoked to be friends with you and a part of
• 2:21:54
  Beast. I love the Heads and have had
• 2:21:56
  great, great results. And thanks for showing Brianna
• 2:22:00
  the good coffee spots. Human being for the win.
• 2:22:03
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
• 2:22:05
  I'm not finished. Mine.
• 2:22:06
  Yeah. So you don't subscribe to the
• 2:22:07
  podcast Channel 5 stars Apple and Spotify share it.
• 2:22:11
  Follow Big Greg Pool on Instagram and we'll see you in
• 2:22:14
  the next one. I'll let you, boy.