Latest / Woodlands Church Academy's Podcast / Empowered to Heal Course- session 3 - Dave Mitchell

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Empowered to Heal Course- session 3 - Dave Mitchell · Woodlands Church Academy's Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you've known me um at all long, you'll know that one of the big um influences in in my uh Christian formation was the ministry of a man called John Wimber, who had an extraordinary healing ministry and uh launched um a healing movement, really.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and his books, Power Healing and Um Power Evangelism, are really still very good uh kind of primers, I think.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: But uh he also always used to say when when people would sort of say, Oh, you know, to give him sort of lots of kudos, he would say, I'll take the encouragement and pass on the glory.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I think it's great to have encouragement, isn't it?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's great to have um uh encouraging answers to prayer, but we also want to pass on the glory because we know that unless the God builds a house, we can do nothing.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: So so tonight we're gonna look at um kind of base our our our our material really on uh a passage in in Mark's gospel, Mark chapter four onwards, and um and actually it's it's helpful if you if you bring a Bible or if you certainly the the notes will take you to some Bible verses that reinforce what we're talking about tonight.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um oh by the way, I'll just Tanodu here, um, who is um a doctor actually, so it's great to have some medics in the room.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um got doctors and nurses and all sorts of medical people in the room for sure.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I happen to be at Tinodo's house this week, and he gave me a book about healing, which he's written himself, and including some documented testimonies from your own life, which is really um really encouraging.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's great that we've got um yeah, that sort of holistic and some really helpful holistic advice in the book too, not just about the way that supernatural healing happens, but how we can cooperate with with the good purposes of God, including how we eat and manage our bodies and all that sort of thing.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, thank you so much for sharing that.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's very encouraging.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh here we are.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we're gonna read from um Mark 4, and it's quite a long passage, so bear with me.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: That day when evening came, Jesus said to his disciples, Let's go over to the other side.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: The other side of the lake, that is, and leaving the crowd behind, they took him along just as he was in the boat.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So also other boats with him, and a furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat, so it was nearly swamped.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the disciples woke him and said to him, Teacher, don't you care if we drown?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he got up, rebuked the wind, and said to the waves, Quiet, be still.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then the wind died down, it was completely calm.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he said to his disciples, Why are you so afraid?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you still have no faith?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: They were terrified and asked each other, Who is this?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Even the wind and the waves obey him.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they went across the lake, the region of the Garussians, and Jesus got out of the boat.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: A man with an evil spirit came from the tombs to meet him.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: This man lived in the tombs, and no one could bind him any more, not even with a chain, for he'd often been chained hand and foot.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: But he tore the chains apart and broke the irons on his feet.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: No one was strong enough to subdue him night and day among the tombs, and in the hills he would cry out and cut himself with stones.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And when he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him, and he shouted at the top of his voice, What do you want with me, Jesus?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Son of the most high God?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Swear to God that you won't torture me.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: For Jesus had said to him, Come out of this man, you evil spirit.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Then Jesus asked him, What is your name?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Legion, he replied, For we are many.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And a large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: The demons begged Jesus, send us among the pigs, allow us to go into them.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And those tening of the pigs ran off and reported this in the town and countryside.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: The people went out to see what had happened.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when they came to Jesus, they saw the man who'd been possessed by a legion of demons sitting there, dressed in his right mind, and they were afraid.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And those people who'd seen it told the people what had happened to the demon-possessed man, and told about the pigs as well.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the people began to plead with Jesus to leave their region.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And as Jesus was getting into the boat, the man who'd been demon-possessed begged to go with him, but Jesus didn't let him go, but said, Go home to your family, tell them how much the Lord has done for you and how he's had mercy on you.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So the man went away and began to tell in the decapolis how much Jesus had done for him.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And all the people were amazed.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And when Jesus had again crossed over the boat to the other side of the lake, a large crowd gathered round him while he was by the lake.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the synagogue rulers named Jairus came down.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Seeing Jesus, he fell at his feet and pleaded earnestly with him.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So Jesus went with him.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And a large crowd followed and pressed around him.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And a woman was there who'd been subject to bleeding for twelve years.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: She suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and spent all she had, yet instead of getting better, she grew worse.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak because she thought, if I just touch his clothes, I'll be healed.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Immediately her bleeding stopped, and she felt in her body that she was freed from her sufferings.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And at once Jesus realized the power had gone out from him.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he turned around in the crowd and asked, Who touched me?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Who touched my clothes?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: You see the people crowding against you, his disciples and said, Yeah, you can ask, Who touched me?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: But Jesus kept looking around to see who'd done it.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell at his feet, and trembling with fear, told him the whole truth.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he said to her, Daughter, your faith has healed you.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And while Jesus was still speaking, some men came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue ruler.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Your daughter's dead, they said.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Why bother the teacher anymore?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And ignoring what they said, Jesus told the synagogue ruler, Don't be afraid, just believe.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't let anyone follow him except Peter, James, and John, the brother of James.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And when they came to the home of the synagogue ruler, Jesus saw a commotion with people crying and wailing loudly.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: He went in and said to them, Why all this commotion and wailing?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: The child's not dead but asleep.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: But they laughed at him.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And after he put them all out, he took the child's father and mother and the disciples who were with him and went in where the child was, and he took her by the hand and said to her, Talitha kum, which means little girl, I say to you, get up.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And immediately the girl stood up, walked around.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: She's 12 years old.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: At this, they were completely astonished, and he gave strict orders not to let anyone know about this and told them to give her something to eat.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I could go on because it's all really relevant.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a long passage, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: But basically, it deals with three key elements in the ministry of Jesus, which is healing the demonized, healing the sick, and raising the dead.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the exemplars of the ministry of Jesus in this whole realm.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And here they are linked together.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got a very dramatic of each of those three quite detailed and fairly dramatic accounts, which is why it's such a really helpful basis to understand something of how the categories of healing, healing of the spirit, healing of the body, and actually raising the dead, can can operate.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also um really interesting in terms of the place that faith has in on all these encounters.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, of course, Jesus has a real emphasis on um wholeness.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um and actually to that woman who he said, daughter, your faith has healed your faith has made you whole.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's that sozo word which happens again.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: You you remember the story of the the the ten lepers who who Jesus heals and one comes back and and and says thank you.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and he said this one you as is whole.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's something more than just a physical healing, there's a healing of his emotional and spiritual self in all of that.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and we we know these days, don't we, how integrated all those elements are.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting here in the testimonies tonight, actually, that the internal uh anxiety and fear and and the physical symptoms seem to have a real link between them.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So Kim's story and your story will reflect that.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: So and and the other thing that's really interesting as well is Jesus is very interested in restoration into community, and um the demoniac is restored into community, the woman with the bleeding is restored into community, the the little girl is restored into family.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: We could expand all of that as well, and and and and the healing that Jesus brings it is an individual thing, but it's also a community thing, and it's there to restore communities too.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So let's have a little bit look at where faith is in these stories.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So um, first of all, there's the faith of Jesus.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: When Jesus crosses the lake and a storm blows up, I I want to I want to suggest that there's why did Jesus cross the lake, by the way?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because what happens is Jesus gets in a boat, crosses a lake, meets a demonized man, sets him free, and comes back.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: My understanding is that Jesus got in the boat to go and heal a demonized man.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think the father was leading him to do that.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And more than that, the demonized man is not just a little bit demonized, he's profoundly demonized.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to, you know, from time to time there is a suggestion, and in a sense, we we we're not absolutely dogmatic about how these things work, but it's there is a there's a potentiality that there are kind of territorial spiritual elements or territorial spirits, if you like, that have influence over a region in some cases, and you can kind of forget the vibe when you go through that.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think there's something about the lake, and I think actually the storm is a demonic storm, and when Jesus speaks the storm, literally he says be muzzled.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same kind of language in which he speaks to evil spirits when he tells us to be quiet, and of course, the lake reoccurs later in the story, doesn't it?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um the pigs end up in the lake, and the pigs, of course, are unclean animals and unclean spirits and unclean animals.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So all of that, um I mean, we do feel sorry for the pigs, but uh but but um whatever that there is what's going on here is is in the storm, nobody has faith in that boat, they're all afraid.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: But Jesus has absolute confidence and just you know kill as a cucumber if you like, you know, he wakes up, be quiet.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then he says to the disciples, What you know, why do you have so little faith?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I said we were going across the lake.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: If I say we're going across the lake, we're going across the lake.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: A bit of wind and waves isn't going to stop us, and the disciples are learning to have faith in Jesus.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that some of what the disciples witness in the life of Jesus is there to give them a deposit of faith.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And what you can see actually over these three stories is their faith growing in every encounter, just like actually our faith can grow through encounters.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we've got the faith of Jesus, and sometimes in prayer ministry, the faith that's there is the faith of Jesus and not a lot of other faith involved.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And can we have the faith of Jesus today?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think that one 1 Corinthians 12, which lists manifestations of the Spirit, spiritual gifts, not gifts that we have, but gifts that we seek, or manifestations of the Spirit, the Spirit comes upon us.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes actually, Jesus can give us some of his faith now.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we will we can explore that in a minute.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: But then the second story is that this this this woman was bleeding.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess she's she has some sort of um of hemorrhage, um, it it may be linked with her ovaries or whatever, but whatever it is, she is ritually unclean.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: If she touches anybody, she makes them unclean.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's the backdrop.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very discreet thing that she's trying to do.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: She's trying to get her healing without drawing attention to herself because she doesn't, she shouldn't be there.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and and she knows that she will be kind of rebuked in some way.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: But but what she does is she kind of visualizes this.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think if I just touch the edge of the edge of his, if I just touch his cloak, I'll be healed.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's a faith thing that she's got.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and sometimes people get that that kind of ah, if I've got, if I just do that, then I'm I I will receive something from God.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think she's operating in faith when she touches Jesus.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um now this it's a it's it's a beautiful story, isn't it?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um when she touches Jesus, she feels in her body that she's well.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, from time to time I've prayed with people, and as we've prayed, they felt in their body that they're well.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and actually, maybe, Lou, you felt in your body last week when we prayed and you stopped having pain in your knees.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: You you actually felt something in your body.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh now, maybe that doesn't always happen like that.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's times where you have to kind of give something time.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: But it's extraordinary, you know, for her, there's there was something going on that she felt.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: But what sort of Jesus felt something?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I felt power leave me.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because he asked the question, who touched me?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And this happens, well, everybody's touching you, you know.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So why do you say who touched me?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're in a crowd, people are josting you.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, but someone touched Jesus with faith.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's the difference.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: The touch is not about magic, it's not like Jesus is a van de graff generator.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you never touch those, and everybody's hair stands on end.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's more that when we touch Jesus with faith, or when Jesus touches us, and there's faith.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Faith earths the power of God.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, someone once said to me this that um God's power works in in these ways.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a three-pin plug.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And there's faith, love, and truth.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And truth is like the you know, faith and love are like the live and the neutral.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Power flows down the faith and the love, and the truth thing is to have to kind of keep it all earth.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but there's something about faith that that helps us access the power of God.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, why is that?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we'll we'll ask that question in a minute, but there's this real flow of power as this lady's actually Jesus, and then finally, um we we have the story of Jairus' daughter, and why is the faith there?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Jesus says to the father, don't be afraid, just believe.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we've already explored tonight a little bit the tension between fear and belief and faith, and and how they're they're they're sometimes antagonists.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So he's encouraging faith from the dad.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: But he's also when he arrives at the scene, there's a lot of mockery because Jesus says, Well, she's asleep, and they just laugh at him, they know a dead person when they see a dead person, and it's you know, you and and and it's kind of the professional mourners are there, and they're you know, they're they're giving a lot, and and Jesus just gets rid of them all and just takes in people with him who have faith.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: He has a little faith community.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's got mum and dad, and he's got his closest disciples, Peter, James, and John.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And bear in mind they've seen Jesus calm a storm, they've seen Jesus heal a demoniac, they've seen Jesus just touch a woman just touch Jesus, she's healed.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they're they're coming as a little faith bubble in the place where there's been doubt and cynicism and mockery.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get rid of that and let's have this little faith cluster.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I think all of that's there.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, faith.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll we'll just think a little bit about faith.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, last week Tim Dobson was was talking about his healing story, wasn't he?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he's talking talking about his mum.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he didn't tell all the story, his mum actually um had this extraordinary healing of her shattered kneecaps and was healed out of a wheelchair when people came and prayed for her.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: But a bit later on in her life, um, you know, they she she had access to her medical records and and there were x-rays there, which shows the kind of the shattered bones, and and the the the on the on the on the records they had no real explanation why she's able to walk without pain.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they just put in the notes, has had a religious experience.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I think there was a deposit of faith in Tim's life.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that experience, you know, Tim has actually quite effective in healing prayer and in words of knowledge.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I I wonder whether there's a deposit of faith received from that formative experience of seeing his mum healed out of a wheelchair, which has helped him in his own kind of journey of praying for people.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and actually his son Matt, you know, Matt was sharing the other day now about praying for someone, had a word of knowledge about nosebleeds, and someone responded and said they'd had a nosebleed every day for 10 years, and Matt prayed for them and no nosebleeds since that time, which is great.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, so faith.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is both a gift of the spirit and a fruit of the spirit.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: The word is pistis in Greek, and it's there in in 1 Corinthians 12.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: There are lists of supernatural gifts, not gifts that we have, but gifts that we seek, and that they're there are things like miracles and healing and prophecy and discernment spirits.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And faith is in there as a gift, but it's also there in Galatians 5 as a fruit of the spirit, but it's actually the same word.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and faith is something, it's it's a little bit unique in that sense.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: It is both something that grows in us like fruit, or it's also a gift that we can receive, and both things are true.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, um we often talk about the gifts of the spirit which can come immediately and be distributed.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Paul uh writes in 1 Corinthians 12, these are manifestations of the Spirit, and he gives them as he determines.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and perhaps Paul's describing the gathering of the of the church and and and different gifts are deposited on people.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and and I've I've been in meetings where I've just been aware that that's been what's going on.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's been Jesus has or the Holy Spirit's been giving gifts to people, and it's not that they're that's not their everyday thing, but it's in that moment.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also something which grows, and it grows um through life, hopefully, and we are in the faith, and and and and faith yeah, in in it it it's it's part of the fruit of of life, and and it it can come and grow in us as individuals, but it can also grow in us in our communities, I think.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: But but why is it so key?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't know whether I'm just making this up theologically.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know, I'm I'm I'm speaking as a kind whether making it up, whether whether uh it's really valid to say what I'm saying.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: But this is why I think faith is so helpful.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: What I think is I think the power of God is dangerous.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um in in the Old Testament, you know, God says to Moses, look, I better not go with you because you're such a stiff-necked people, and my power might break out against you.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like um, you know, power is dangerous, isn't it?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, electricity is a is a is an extraordinarily useful and powerful thing, but it is also dangerous and it needs to be sheathed in protective you know plastic so that we can handle it safely.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to be you know in the right terminals of a plug and earth properly.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and if if you you know, I I remember uh back in my community house, kind of there was this old cable there which someone told me was dead, so I just cut it off the wall, but it wasn't, it was alive, and the bang! And I fell backwards, and it was a bit missing from the knife.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, oh, that's powerful.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we we want to handle the power safely, and actually the power of God needs to be handled safely, doesn't it?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: The Holy Spirit is a Holy Spirit, and there are examples in the whole of scripture where you know it's a bit like um C.S.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Lewis about Aslan, you know.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's is he is he a tame lion?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, he's not a tame lion, but he's good, and God is good, but he's he's also powerful.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and actually, how does somebody who is unholy handle the holy?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, who can stand before the Lord?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: He who has clean hands and a pure heart.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, in a sense, we we we catch the holiness of Jesus.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: We we he gives us that he we can be called holy because Jesus has enabled us to to bear that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's the one who is us is the sin bearer, someone who takes away the sin of the world from us.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: But um maybe this is true that that God counts faith as righteousness.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the Bible says that a lot, doesn't it?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and maybe faith, uh because God counts faith as righteousness, and faith in Jesus is counted as righteousness, faith helps us to handle the holy without being consumed by it.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: I do you think that's true?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's worth having a thought about, but that's that's how.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've kind of recognized it so um I just want to let you have a bit of a breakout for a moment, and um I I wonder whether you could tell yours tell one another some faith stories, um maybe describe to people times when you've you've kind of particularly felt faith, or um where you where you you've you've had your own stories that have built your faith, and maybe um even ask them does that make sense what I was saying or not, and just just check check it to see you actually you're with me and I'm thank you so much.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: You just um in your little groups, if you've heard something from someone else in the groups that you think all of us should hear, just put your hand up.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So Lou and James, all right.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um some years ago now I had um I've had cancer twice and it's been quite difficult.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the first time I had it, I was in this home group, and there was a couple who were in the group, and they went on holiday to um Spain, and whilst they were there, uh they it was very busy in this restaurant, and they sat, managed to find spaces and they sat down, and then his wife went to get um some drinks and stuff and came back.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And whilst she when she was coming back, there was this couple coming in at the far end of the room.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't know, but this couple looked over and saw that the Holy Spirit was hovering over this couple from my home group and came and sat next to them and they were got talking, and um Maggie blessed her, she was explaining about me and the journey I was going through, and she uh as they were talking, he said, I need to pray.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: What's her name?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: So she said, and then he prayed, and she she felt really encouraged and came back and told me, and I was like, Wow, you know, the Lord had brought somebody from like America to Spain to see them and then come to me, you know, and that gave me real encouragement, and that was kind of the first time around, and then the cancer came back sadly.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh I had to go through a lot of treatment for it, but ultimately to say that when I went to get my results from my oncologist, who I got on really well with, um, I walked in and she ran over and gave me a hug.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to read the results of her body language, and I couldn't couldn't tell.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then she pulled herself away and she said, Jill, there's nothing there.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, What do you mean there's nothing there?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: So she um took me, showed me the scans, and it was there wasn't anything there.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that I'd had a very large tumour that it was going to be palliative care if it hadn't worked.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um I said, This is what my church has been praying for.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And she said she was a Muslim, and she turned around and she said, I've been praying for you too.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, it was it was amazing that you know God had totally healed me, and that was eight years ago.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't believe that when God heals you, you know, he heals that part of you, and I don't believe that he only partly heals you, he heals you in total.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I and as as I say, I haven't had anything back, and the scan's been free ever since.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, John.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's quite hard to follow up with that.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: We're just um we're just talking about obviously what builds faith and what doesn't, and we're just talking about comfort really.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, sometimes one thing that might stop our or or or lessen our faith or or make it stagnant is just being really comfortable in what you do.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing, um, I think that's probably quite common, quite an easy low-level thing that can creep into our lives potentially.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: On the flip side, is that sort of sense of um getting out of your comfort zone in order to build faith.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we're just saying, like Joe, we were just talking about you praying, you know, that that step out, that boldness to try something new.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: In our experience, it's like it creates the space for God to move.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's yeah.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a very helpful um understanding.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: That again, a wimberism that's become a cliche every faith is spelled risk, but but there's that sense where we we take risks where it's got to be God, and and that's the context, that risky context where things can happen that are only God.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think faith comes in in the if we want to grow faith, and and and that's I want to suggest that we can partner with the Holy Spirit and with one another to grow faith.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so again, um Paul, when he's talking about um faith, he says faith comes through hearing, and and it does.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, it the sort of hearing that can build faith includes teaching.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt on session one when we had as as we were just going through the Bible teaching story from the Bible, I felt the faith level in the room rise, and I think it does, but it can also come through testimony, and um you know we've heard some stories even tonight.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Luke saying I you know, I came in last week with a correction, this week I came in without a correction, um, and and and when we sense those things happening, then our faith rises, and and and stories from elsewhere as well.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um Jill has told us a story from her own life, and um, and and again that's that's part of the the groundswell of faith that can build.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we we know that faith can help or hinder spiritual receptivity.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, I read this big section from Mark 6.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: The next section, if I'd carried on reading and we talk about faith, is where Jesus goes to Nazareth and and and they kind of he's overfamiliar, you know.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't this the carpenter?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't this Mary's son?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: The brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon, it's just here with us.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: They took a fence of him.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus said to them, only in his hometown, among his relatives in his own house, is a prophet without honour.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: He couldn't do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And he was amazed at their lack of faith.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: There was a kind of um uh a negative element of faith in all of that, that sort of cynical, and that can be contrasted with the story in Luke chapter 7, verse 9.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the story of the centurion who um says to Jesus, my servant second, he said, I'll come to your home.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: He said, You don't need to come, just speak the word, my servant will be healed.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know what it's like, I'm a man under authority.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus said, I've never seen such faith in the hell of Israel, and and that that person was healed without Jesus, just Jesus spoke the word, you know.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I guess another thing about faith is faith can be discerned.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, um, how?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: In in in Mark chapter 2, um, that some people bring paralyzed man to Jesus, and it says, When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, Son, it says forgiven.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, maybe what did Jesus see?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe the fact that they're they're bold enough to go on someone's roof and make a hole in it and low, you know, that demonstrates quite a lot of faith, doesn't it?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: But Paul in Acts 14, there's this verse where um Paul Paul is there in a crowd of people and and he he looked intently at a lame man, it says, he looked intently and saw that he had faith to be healed.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: What did Paul see?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um Jill was talking about this this couple who saw the Holy Spirit resting on somebody.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, that's been my experience sometimes.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I've seen um, you know, actually not very much recently, but at one time in my life, fairly frequently, um, I would kind of see, which to my mind looked like a heat haze that you see on a hot day in the road over someone's head.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, well, I think that's the Holy Spirit.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: I need to do something and pray with them or whatever.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and or or sometimes I'll observe that and see someone with them singing tongues or something like that.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think maybe that's an element of seeing faith or seeing something.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know how it is.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: But if if there is, if it's possible to see faith, it'd be quite nicely, wouldn't it?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: If it's possible to see what God's doing, to keep himself with the spirit, it would be nice too.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly for me, is that this was probably in a phase where I was really trying to explore the work of the spirit.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was asking God, show me what you're doing, and that was the kind of answer that I got.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe not because I'm very spiritual, but maybe because I needed help.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's kind of like this, like you know, the centurion probably didn't need that sort of thing.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: But um I I guess faith can be helped by well, but actually, sometimes we can we can discern faith in the room, and and sometimes when I'm praying in a context like this, I might say who tonight has got a real conviction that God's going to do something in their lives?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're kind of going with the grain of faith that's there, and that that's if we'll if we're leading prayer, that might be quite a helpful thing to do.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think faith can be helped by props, and I and that's that's not a theological term.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a kind of it's kind of all like tools or things that will give us things to hang our faith on.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if you're absailing down a wall, you probably need to hang off the rope, don't you?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe sometimes you're climbing and and you've got confidence to climb because you've got a rope attached to you.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're not actually using the rope at all, it's just there in case you fall.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: But that gives you the confidence to do the climb.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes faith is a little bit like that.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: It helps us to get hold of things.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: So in Acts 19, I've given you the reference there, um, it was talking about when Paul's at Ephesus, it said God did extraordinary things through Paul.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed to be a real season in his life where there's a heightened spiritual activity.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it says, even handkerchiefs and aprons were taken from Paul to sick people and they got well.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what's that all about?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is that superstitious?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't think it is.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think that God is not too proud.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: That he's that he, you know, he doesn't want to he's not too proud.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not going to bless you unless you're all like the centurion and you don't need anything help.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think God is okay, helps our faith by giving us things to hang our faith on.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the thing that we hang on our faith on is a person.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it call the elders from the church because I think they're probably more spiritual than I am.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's something like oil, a sacramental tool.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um sometimes it's oh, if I just touch the edge of his cloak.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting actually, later on in Mark, Jesus goes back to the region of the Gadarenes, where he sent the man to be a witness, and this time they'll come and bring the sick, and they'll say, if we just touch the edge of his cloak, we'll be healed.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I kept doing that.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes it might be a handkerchief.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Did I tell the story about Ruth Bartlett here?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, so we we have these kind of contemporary stories where where someone takes something and there's been a it's been prayed over, and it's it hangs, you can hang your faith on it, and that's okay.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: So let's not belittle those tools, but let's not overinflate them either.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not like unless I've got a handkerchief, I'm not gonna get healed.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think maybe sometimes well, maybe these these tools are vehicles of impartation.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: It is impartation where we give something away, and and I think laying on of hands is a particular sign of impartation.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: When Paul's talking to Timothy in the letter of Timothy, he says, you know, don't neglect the spiritual gift which was given you, imparted to you through the laying on of my hands.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I have had hands laid on me, which I think have released stuff in me.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I've laid hands on people that I think has released things in them.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I find it the most natural thing in the world is to pray through laying on of hands, and it's quite odd not to, but um, and I think that that's something we do.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: If we lay hands on people gently, in appropriate places, you know, that's all take that for granted with permission, etc.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not everybody wants you to lay that, but um so that's that's some stuff on faith.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's see if we can grow it.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And just very briefly as we come into land, a bit about raising the dead and healing the demonized.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: This is obviously just touching on these things, but raising the dead.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: I said in week one that healing is most fluent when it goes with the grain of creation, um, and so raising the dead is rare.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: In the ministry of Jesus, we only have three recorded raises of the dead.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: There may have been others that we that are not recorded, but the only three that we have are the one we've just read, Jarus' daughter, the widow of Nain's son, which we can find in Luke chapter 7, verse 11, and then the raising of Lazarus, who is again a young man.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have any old people raised from the dead.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: There are some people raised from the dead in Matthew after the cross, after after after he's today.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: But that's almost like what's happening there in Matthew is the age to come is breaking into the now.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: All the signs that are accompanied with the end of the world, you know, signs in the heavens and tombs breaking open, and it's like, oh, we've got a snapshot of the end of the world happening now in advance, I think, in that Matthew passage.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so but it's it's rare in the ministry of Jesus, and it's rare in the disciples.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: We have Peter in um Acts chapter 9, where he does a lady called Dorcas, and um it's very similar actually to the healing of Jarus' daughter.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: If if you read it, um Peter does what Jesus does, gets rid of the moccasins, prays, and he takes the lady by the hand and says, Tabitha, get up, and she's she gets up and she's raised.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the only one we we really know about from Peter's ministry.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: And with Paul, well, there's Eutychus, you know that story where Paul's preaching late into the night and this young man falls asleep, and it's it's a bit ambiguous to my mind.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: It says he was sort of.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not quite sure as I read the text whether he was really dead or whether they thought he was dead.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's but um anyway, you can make your own mind about that.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's in Acts 20, verse 7.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: But what I do think is not everything uh needs the same amount of power, and I think raising the dead needs a lot of power, you know, and and um I have been around people trying to pray for the for people who are dead, and and I've I've been at deathbed scenes, including, you know, most tragically, um Rachel Riddleson when he was knocked over in a hit and run and taken to recess as a 10-year-old.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I was there with um Martin and Rachel, and and you know, my own rule of thumb is I will I won't pray for someone to be raised from the dead unless I feel God's telling me to do that.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a default, it's something which I would need to feel, I need to keep in set with what you're doing.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: And thus far, I haven't felt that.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I've I've I've prayed with the dying, which is different.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: But when when someone's actually died, I I've I've never personally felt um that God has been leading me to pray for resurrection from the dead.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's very hard to disentangle our own grief emotions um from uh the prompting of the spirit.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: However, I do believe that people are prayed from the dead.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I I believe that you know that that that is a ministry that does interest the church.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I and there are some places where it happens more frequently than others, I think.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um across raised that all the second and I I know that there's one story that Rob was involved in where there's a guy who is visiting Bristol from Togo and as a church leader that we have a relationship with, and um while he's at Rob's house, there was a phone message and uh one of his um close ministry partners had died.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um and then they kind of stopped him.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Rob said, I think we should pray.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then oh he's he's he's he's he's alive.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know the final outcome of that, but um anyway.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: That was at a distance.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: So do things some things need more power?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think some things do need more power, and some things you know that get a hold on the body in a more profound way than others.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: A common cold has less of a profound hold on the body than an invasive cancer that's in the bones of somebody's body.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I also think there's something about miracles of power that destabilize the unseen spiritual realm.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And let me just unpack what I mean by that.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that miracles scare Satan.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that they speak of the end of the world, the end of the age, the end of history as we know it.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And consequently, um, again, my my kind of personal cosmology, I feel like there are when God created the universe, there were embedded spiritual powers in creation that in our case happened to be fallen, and that's why Jesus can call Satan the Prince of the air and and all that kind of stuff.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I don't want to cut that's that's a bit speculative, I don't want to go into too much, but I do think that um, you know, in a sense, the the powers of darkness know that their time is short, and when miracles happen, it's a reminder of that, and it can sometimes trigger a backlash.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not surprising this that very often when Jesus does a miracle, there's a backlash, and people try and kill him.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Not just the race of Lazarus, though that's the huge, but also other times when he's healing someone on Sabbath day and they go, Oh, we've got to kill him.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on there?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's that kind of backlash, and I think sometimes God um might not give us a miracle because we're not ready for the backlash.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I think.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: But um, that's again just my speculative theology.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna finish briefly on healing of the demonized, but a bit more about that next week because it's such a big part of the ministry of Jesus, and it's not something, not something we talk about very much, and there aren't very many really appropriate places to do that, but we're gonna we will talk a bit more about that last week.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: But a little bit of an introduction that healing the demonized is a big part of Jesus' ministry.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you're a Christian, you probably need to be aware that there's a uh an angelic realm, um, and there's a realm of heaven, and there's a very human realm where quite a lot of stuff happens, but there's also a demonic realm and there's a demonic hierarchy.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: There are degrees of of demonic powers.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: I and I'm that's the worldview of the Bible, it's actually a worldview that I share.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that um it's interesting that in the ministry of Jesus, sometimes sickness is attributed to um unclean spirits, and sometimes it isn't.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that the the majority of the healing of Jesus isn't uh about unclean spirits, but from time to time it is.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: So um in in in in Luke 9 verse 37, for example, um I think that's the boy who is um it looks like epilepsy to to me when when when I see what's going on, but it's clearly described as a spirit.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: But um there's also there in Luke 13.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um anyway, I I just wanted to check my references.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, maybe Luke 9 is is is is is that Luke 13 is the demonised boy, isn't it?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and Luke 9 is the is the lady in who's um got scoliosis or something like that, and um Jesus says um she gets healed on the Sabbath day.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, they've got the two that I've inverted them.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Luke 9 is the the the boy, Luke 13 is the is a woman.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus says, should not this daughter of Abraham, who Satan is bound for 18 years, be set free on the Sabbath day?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so Jesus sees her sickness as being part of this work of the realm of spiritual darkness, if you like.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um But you've got a couple of stories about of the death.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's um in in Mark 7 and Matthew 9, there's a there's a what does does Jesus he need um well actually bear with me, I'm gonna look them up.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: So in Matthew 9, verse 32, um while they were going out, a man who was demon-possessed and couldn't talk was brought to Jesus.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And when the demon was driven out, the man who'd been mute spoke, and the crowd was may have said nothing like this has ever been seen before.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: But if you compare that with Mark 7, verse 31, um, some people brought to him a man who was deaf because hardly taught, they begged him to place his hand on the man, and he took him aside away from the crowd.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus put his fingers into the man's ears, he spat and touched the man's tongue, he looked up to heaven and with a deep sigh said to him, Fatha, which means be opened.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: At this, the man's ears were opened, his tongue was loosened, he began to speak plainly.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very, very different, isn't it?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: And again, a prayer of command.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's quite interesting, isn't it?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: What what was Jesus doing with all those things?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think Jesus loves to do things that, well, he's he's directed by the Father and he gives things people to hang their faith on.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the man born blind in John 9, Jesus sends in, puts mud on his eyes, sends him to wash.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: That man had no idea who Jesus was.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: He'd never seen him do anything.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Really helped him, I think, to have something to hang his faith on.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, um, what is deliverance ministry?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Deliverance is setting people free from unclean spirits, and it's the power encounter.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the the authorized version of the Bible, the King James Version, use the word demon-possessed, which is not in the Greek.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: The New Testament Greek, when it talks about people affected by evil spirits, it says people are demonized or to have an unclean spirit.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't use the language of possession.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Possession implies a high degree of control.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um the most extreme story that we have of demon affect in the New Testament is the gathering demon that I read you tonight.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: And even there, even though this is very extreme, and even though the way Jesus deals with it is different from the normal, he can come to Jesus and fall at his feet and seek help, I think.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: But um on the whole, um the demonic realm can affect a bit of our realm.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit like uh back in the day when the Normans were trying to conquer Wales.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: They'd build a castle there, they have a stronghold, and that could kind of keep the territory subdued.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes in our own lives, there's a bit of territory where there's like a stronghold, a spiritual stronghold that's affecting part of our life, and um but we need to be set free from that.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the language of unclean spirit is my favorite because I think there's such a link between spiritual sickness and the demonic and physical sickness in foreign bodies.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's kind of like when you've got an open wound in your body, you need to keep good hygiene, you need to keep it covered up, you need to put a disinfectant or antiseptic on it, or things like that.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: You you you the things that you do to protect yourself.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: And in our spirits, we need spiritual hygiene to protect ourselves from colluding with powers of darkness.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and probably it's not uh it's not odd for Christians to be affected by the demonic.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, lots of times I've prayed for people who are Christians, and there's been a little bit of their lives, which is there's something there that's troubling them where they're not free, which isn't about repentance, though that helps.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just about an emotional issue, there's also a spiritual issue there, and it it needs the authority of Jesus to be brought to bear against something that's troubling them, and that that that could be anybody, yeah, it could be a Christian leader, could be me.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that um we're any of us are are immune any more than I'm immune from viruses or bacteria or anything in the physical realm.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: Does that does that make sense?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I I just think we get freaked out by the notion because our perspective is horror films and media rather than the Bible, and and it's kind of quite straightforward in the in the Bible, you know.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, there's lots of people who are brought to Jesus just to just sets them free.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say I've probably prayed for literally hundreds of people who are Christians to be set free from an area of of spiritual influence from the from the unclean, if you like.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not like it's been completely dominating their life.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's just a little tinge of something, but it's just made a difference.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit like you know, if you've got a thorn in your hand, you're aware of it, it's painful, but it's not stopping you from functioning as a and and so I hope that's we'll just go a little bit further into that next week, if that's all right.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, next week, which is where we came to land, we'll be thinking a bit about power and in the language of power, how we do the power encounter, which is where why that's fitted in that place, and power and proximity, we'll be thinking about healing models and uh and don't have any chance for any questions, but as ever, we want to make sure that we get a chance to pray with people before we close tonight.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we're gonna do for the next 20 minutes.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you feel like you don't want to stay and pray, you want to go and watch the football?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: Matt, is that you?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're very welcome.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna we're gonna do some praying this evening, and um that means how are we gonna pray?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well.