Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / [EP 389] XTC's Skylarking: The Story Behind A Pop Masterpiece with Alfredo Marziano

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[EP 389] XTC's Skylarking: The Story Behind A Pop Masterpiece with Alfredo Marziano · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

0:00
Speaker 1: I think they were two brilliant and incompatible personalities. But
0:04
Speaker 1: this friction gave place to a bath of creativity. Sometimes
0:09
Speaker 1: when people are not comfortable in the studio, very great
0:13
Speaker 1: things come out of that. Putting ecstasy out of their
0:18
Speaker 1: comfort zone gave room to new dimensions of their music.
0:23
Speaker 2: We're totally bomed rock and Roll.
0:26
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll leave you you're reading.
0:28
Speaker 1: Little hands, since it's time to rock and roll rocking
0:31
Speaker 1: out a totally.
0:33
Speaker 2: Booked Welcome back to Booked on Rock. This is the
0:39
Speaker 2: podcast for those about to read in Rock Americ sanitch.
0:43
Speaker 2: Before we get started, if you're looking to get some
0:45
Speaker 2: great classic rock merchandise, you can get fifteen percent off
0:49
Speaker 2: through old Glory dot com. Use the code Booked on
0:53
Speaker 2: Rock and you get fifteen percent off. The link is
0:55
Speaker 2: in the show notes, or it can go to our
0:56
Speaker 2: website Booked on Rock dot com and look for my deals.
1:00
Speaker 2: Now onto our guest, Alfredo Marziano, a first time guest.
1:04
Speaker 2: He's here to talk about the classic XTC album from
1:07
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six, Skylarking. Skylarking's the eighth studio album by XDC,
1:13
Speaker 2: released October twenty seventh of nineteen eighty six includes the
1:17
Speaker 2: singles Grass and Dear God, although that wasn't included on
1:22
Speaker 2: the original version. We'll get to that, and Skylarking has
1:25
Speaker 2: been listed on one hundred Greatest Albums of the nineteen
1:28
Speaker 2: eighties lists by Rolling Stone and Pitchfork. In this book,
1:32
Speaker 2: Alfredo dives deep into the album XDC Skylarking. A Life
1:38
Speaker 2: in a Day the Making of a Pop Classic is
1:40
Speaker 2: the title part of Lily Publishing's Milestones series. Welcome to
1:45
Speaker 2: the podcast, Alfredo.
1:46
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you very much. I'm really happy.
1:48
Speaker 1: I'm real glad to have this chance to chat with
1:50
Speaker 1: you with your listeners.
1:52
Speaker 2: So tell me about the album when it first grabbed
1:55
Speaker 2: you and also has your appreciation of the album changed
1:58
Speaker 2: after spending years researching adding the book.
2:01
Speaker 1: I'm old enough to have because I'm a sixty ninety
2:06
Speaker 1: this year, so I have the chance to listen to
2:09
Speaker 1: the record when it came out in ninety eighty six.
2:12
Speaker 1: I was twenty nine years old back then, so I
2:15
Speaker 1: was already an ecstasy fan and a rock fan.
2:20
Speaker 3: So I was.
2:23
Speaker 1: Just leagally waiting for this record to come out because
2:28
Speaker 1: I started to really appreciate Extsy, not exactly from the
2:32
Speaker 1: beginning of their career, but from the double.
2:37
Speaker 3: Album English Settlement.
2:40
Speaker 1: That was their fifth album and it was the first
2:44
Speaker 1: one that Ecstasy produced and released after they they put
2:53
Speaker 1: off their light posted career, so because of Andy Partridge
2:58
Speaker 1: physical and psychooal problems and getting on stage, not only
3:04
Speaker 1: straight flight, but it was really sick about being on
3:08
Speaker 1: a stage, so they just concentrated focused on the on
3:12
Speaker 1: the studio work and English Settlement was the first one
3:18
Speaker 1: of these albums that made focusing just like on just on.
3:22
Speaker 3: On the studio work.
3:24
Speaker 1: And from that point on, in particular, I was interested
3:28
Speaker 1: in next to seeing more they're more melodic side. Uh.
3:33
Speaker 1: There used to be a really nervy new wave band
3:38
Speaker 1: before that. I appreciate very much albums like The Black
3:46
Speaker 1: Seed that was the one before Ing Settlement and Drums
3:53
Speaker 1: and Wires to the third album. But I think the
3:57
Speaker 1: English Setlement opened a door for them, uh in research,
4:02
Speaker 1: in researching sounds and opening really a new door, a new.
4:07
Speaker 3: Landscape for for the record.
4:10
Speaker 1: So it was always a dream of mine to have
4:14
Speaker 1: a chance to write a book about this record, and
4:18
Speaker 1: the key for that were having the xt C. It
4:23
Speaker 1: asked Andy Partridge, Colin Moulden and take Gregory to accept
4:29
Speaker 1: to talk extensively about that about that record with me,
4:34
Speaker 1: and when this chance opened for me, I think, okay,
4:38
Speaker 1: that's the right time. And from the time on it
4:41
Speaker 1: was not so a long process because a part of
4:46
Speaker 1: the of the writing was their job. They h the
4:52
Speaker 1: interviews I made with them, made the book of the
4:56
Speaker 1: of the book at completing it with many interviews that
5:01
Speaker 1: I've taken from multiple, multiple sources. But the ball cover
5:07
Speaker 1: of the book is the original interviews that I met
5:09
Speaker 1: with the three of them and with.
5:11
Speaker 3: Other people involved.
5:12
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I couldn't get in touch with the producer, Todd Ranger,
5:16
Speaker 1: and I yet to use some of the interviews that
5:20
Speaker 1: it made before about about the record. I couldn't get
5:24
Speaker 1: in touch with him. Unfortunately.
5:27
Speaker 3: Anyway I got.
5:27
Speaker 1: I got in touch with an assistance of him at
5:32
Speaker 1: the studio and it was a really really important source
5:36
Speaker 1: of information for me.
5:38
Speaker 3: The name of this guy is Ralph Lagnini.
5:41
Speaker 2: And did you appreciate the album in a different way
5:43
Speaker 2: or more so after speaking with the guys and getting
5:46
Speaker 2: all that inside information on the album, do you listen
5:48
Speaker 2: to it differently now?
5:49
Speaker 3: Oh?
5:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit, yes, because they point to some
5:53
Speaker 1: of the things of the shades of the subtleties that
5:59
Speaker 1: you sometimes you know you can, you don't perceive that
6:04
Speaker 1: at the first moment. So, for example, they're talking about
6:09
Speaker 1: using this kind of Mexican Latin guitar that's called the teple,
6:14
Speaker 1: is a little ten string guitar in songs like Summers,
6:19
Speaker 1: Caledon and Grass, the two songs that start the record.
6:23
Speaker 3: I was not exactly aware that.
6:27
Speaker 1: And yes, now I listened more intantly to the sound
6:32
Speaker 1: too when I listen to the record now, and so
6:36
Speaker 1: with many other things.
6:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, does that for me as well.
6:40
Speaker 3: For example, in another song that's called the Meeting.
6:42
Speaker 1: Place, they use the factory hooter that was calling the
6:50
Speaker 1: workers to work in Swindon, in their hometown in England,
6:55
Speaker 1: and this is another important touch of And then it's
7:00
Speaker 1: also interesting for me to know some of the landscape,
7:04
Speaker 1: the imaginary landscape that they had in their heads when
7:08
Speaker 1: they were writing and playing those songs. There are songs
7:13
Speaker 1: very much informed even if they recorded in the US.
7:18
Speaker 1: This is a very cant essentially British album, very much
7:22
Speaker 1: rooted in England and in Swindon, in their hometown.
7:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, the main lineup, you did mention the three main
7:30
Speaker 2: guys that you spoke with, Andy Partridge lead vocals, guitar,
7:34
Speaker 2: Colin Molding vocals and bassed, Dave Gregory vocals, guitar, piano,
7:37
Speaker 2: since and string arrangements credited as quote unquote the part
7:42
Speaker 2: of the time Bomb is drummer Prairie Prince and Todd
7:46
Speaker 2: Rudgren produced it. And you write about Andy Partridge's breakdown
7:50
Speaker 2: and the band's decision to stop touring in nineteen eighty two.
7:53
Speaker 2: You just mentioned that and heading into the album, Version
7:56
Speaker 2: Records essentially gave XDC an ultimatum finding direction or work
8:01
Speaker 2: with an American producer who could help the band in
8:03
Speaker 2: the US. How much pressure did that situation place on
8:07
Speaker 2: the group And do you think Skylarkin would have been
8:09
Speaker 2: a completely different album had those commercial pressures not existed.
8:14
Speaker 1: I think so, because as I remember, I think it's
8:19
Speaker 1: Dave Gregory Gregory that says that until the point Execy
8:25
Speaker 1: used to have quite a free hand in choosing the
8:29
Speaker 1: producers and choosing and the sounds of their records. When
8:36
Speaker 1: they were confronting with Todd Ranger with a very you know,
8:43
Speaker 1: quite strong personality they have to face a man had
8:49
Speaker 1: a real clear idea of what he wanted the record
8:54
Speaker 1: to sound like.
8:55
Speaker 3: And this, ah, you know.
8:58
Speaker 1: Pushed to give way to a strong personality clash between
9:04
Speaker 1: him and at the partridge with the more you know, uh,
9:09
Speaker 1: strong willed musician in in XDC and also the main
9:14
Speaker 1: composer and so yes, of course the mark of Todd
9:21
Speaker 1: Drangren is very much present in in this record. I
9:25
Speaker 1: think it would be it could have been a very
9:28
Speaker 1: very different record if it's another producer had been chosen
9:33
Speaker 1: to work on it instead of instead of Todd Drangren. Uh,
9:37
Speaker 1: this is even and the Partridge now recognizes this, recognizes
9:43
Speaker 1: that that Todd made sometimes the very very clever decisions,
9:51
Speaker 1: and it puts he left a very strong market on
9:56
Speaker 1: the record. But it was for a good it was
10:00
Speaker 1: for a good goal.
10:05
Speaker 2: Chapter three paints a vivid picture of XDC arriving in
10:08
Speaker 2: Woodstock and finding Rundgren's rustic Utopia Studios. Several accounts described
10:14
Speaker 2: the studio as somewhat chaotic, mouse nests in the chamberlain,
10:18
Speaker 2: equipment scattered around, and a less than glamorous set up.
10:22
Speaker 2: Before Rundgren even arrived, the band spent days rehearsing and
10:26
Speaker 2: preparing songs what were Rundgren's first impressions of XTC and
10:31
Speaker 2: the material that they brought with him, and how quickly
10:33
Speaker 2: did it become clear that his vision for the album
10:36
Speaker 2: might differ from theirs.
10:37
Speaker 1: When Todd listened to the demos, ye had already an
10:42
Speaker 1: idea of the sequence of the songs and how to
10:45
Speaker 1: put them in the record, which one to select to
10:49
Speaker 1: pick up and which one to discard. And that was
10:52
Speaker 1: a big shock and a big surprise for Partridge in particular.
10:57
Speaker 1: That was used to another a totally different way of working,
11:04
Speaker 1: to scatter ideas around, to have maybe twenty twenty five
11:09
Speaker 1: thirty songs and then let them develop naturally organically, and
11:15
Speaker 1: after that choosing the best ones instead. Todd from the
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Speaker 1: very beginning said, no, this is the thirteen fourteen song
11:28
Speaker 1: that we are we're going to use, So this is
11:33
Speaker 1: the sequence.
11:34
Speaker 3: Of the songs.
11:35
Speaker 1: Just put them on tape in the right with the
11:40
Speaker 1: right sounds and with the right arrangements and with the
11:43
Speaker 1: right performance. So a big shock for them and for
11:48
Speaker 1: Puntry particularly. There's another thing that happened. They were not
11:53
Speaker 1: used to. They didn't begin to work with the trump
11:58
Speaker 1: with the drummer. They started the recording the record without
12:02
Speaker 1: a drummer, so they have to use the click tracks,
12:05
Speaker 1: and it was quite you know, this place and this
12:10
Speaker 1: come forth in for them. Just after they went to
12:14
Speaker 1: San Francisco, Prairie Prince put the drum tracks on the songs.
12:20
Speaker 2: Chapter four gets into one of the most fascinating aspects
12:22
Speaker 2: of Skylarking, Todd Runggren's highly structured production methods and the
12:27
Speaker 2: creative fraction that they created with XTC. One of the
12:30
Speaker 2: most surprising revelations is that Colin Molding was often recording
12:35
Speaker 2: bass parts, you know, like you said before Prairie Princess drums.
12:39
Speaker 2: How unusual was run Gren's recording process for that time.
12:44
Speaker 1: Ramgan was quite used to doing things this way. He
12:48
Speaker 1: also used to, you know, to record the whole albums
12:53
Speaker 1: by himself, playing all day instruments.
12:56
Speaker 3: So it thought maybe that other.
12:58
Speaker 1: Musician could be easily, you know, convinced to walk this way.
13:05
Speaker 1: Colin Malten at these problems too, in a playing base,
13:11
Speaker 1: just with a click track, just imagining where the drum
13:14
Speaker 1: beats were going to be, just in his head. But
13:20
Speaker 1: it was more flexible in his way like Dave Gregory was.
13:24
Speaker 1: Because Dave Gregory was the only one of the three
13:27
Speaker 1: that was already a fan of Todd Ranger and productions
13:30
Speaker 1: and records and was very happy to work with him,
13:35
Speaker 1: while Partridge was.
13:37
Speaker 3: Really at logger heads with this way of working.
13:41
Speaker 2: Well, the conflict between Partridge and Runggren that's chapter five
13:46
Speaker 2: gets into it. It's a legendary conflict. You could say
13:49
Speaker 2: the title two Hitler's in a Bunker and it perfectly
13:53
Speaker 2: captures the reputation of the Andy Partridge Todd Runggren relationship.
13:57
Speaker 2: Todd Rongreennn argued that andy tendency to endlessly revised songs
14:02
Speaker 2: have become a problem, while Andy felt Todd was stifling
14:05
Speaker 2: his creativity. After researching both perspectives, do you think either
14:10
Speaker 2: side was more justified or were they simply just two
14:13
Speaker 2: brilliant but incompatible personalities.
14:16
Speaker 1: I think there were two brilliant and incompatible personalities, but
14:21
Speaker 1: this friction gave place to a bath of creativity. So
14:29
Speaker 1: sometimes when people are not comfortable in the studio, very
14:34
Speaker 1: great things come out of that. Putting ecstasy out of
14:41
Speaker 1: their comfort zone gave room two new dimensions of their music.
14:49
Speaker 1: I think I think that Todd Ranger and input can
14:53
Speaker 1: be underestimated.
14:55
Speaker 2: So do you think Skylarkin is one of those rare
14:57
Speaker 2: cases where create attention actually elevates the work beyond what
15:02
Speaker 2: either party might have achieved.
15:03
Speaker 1: A loan, for sure, and Partridge recognizes that too nowadays.
15:09
Speaker 1: He was a great, great arranger of sounds of strings
15:14
Speaker 1: or brass, And there are some songs on the record
15:19
Speaker 1: like Murmured Smile or the Man who Sailed Around the
15:22
Speaker 1: Shore where he made a really astounded work in a
15:27
Speaker 1: very short time with brass and strings. He had some
15:36
Speaker 1: kind of jazzy undertones and touches to the songs. I
15:41
Speaker 1: don't think that Ecstasy could have arrived at the target
15:45
Speaker 1: without him.
15:46
Speaker 2: Fourteen tracks at all. Let's get to some of the
15:48
Speaker 2: standout tracks now. The album opens with Summer's Cauldron. One
15:52
Speaker 2: of the most fascinating details here is Andy's explanation of
15:55
Speaker 2: trying to translate colors, heat, and visual images in the
15:58
Speaker 2: chords and sounds opening filled with insects, birds, barking dogs,
16:03
Speaker 2: environmental sounds. How much of that cinematic soundscape was in
16:08
Speaker 2: this vision and how much was that Rundgren's contribution as
16:12
Speaker 2: a producer, because you just mentioned his production techniques as
16:16
Speaker 2: far as orchestration and things like that.
16:19
Speaker 1: Well, in this case, I think that Andy had already
16:23
Speaker 1: in his original ideas the kind of ambiance, the kind
16:28
Speaker 1: of mood that he wanted to reach. So this kind
16:33
Speaker 1: of a very lazy summer feel. And yeah, of course
16:40
Speaker 1: ranger at the brilliance and the good ideas of using
16:44
Speaker 1: some kind of even synthesized sounds. It was very used
16:47
Speaker 1: to you to put in his record to reach this
16:52
Speaker 1: kind of atmosphere the sounds. But I think in this
16:56
Speaker 1: case Andy already had a very very precise idea in
17:02
Speaker 1: his mind of what you wanted in the Stork in
17:05
Speaker 1: his first two songs of the.
17:07
Speaker 2: Record, Grass one of the most beloved Colin Molding songs
17:11
Speaker 2: on Skylarking and You point out the Grass in the
17:13
Speaker 2: Meeting Place or thematically linked, and both draw from Colin's
17:17
Speaker 2: memories of courtship. Song has often been interpreted as being
17:21
Speaker 2: about drug use because of its psychedelic feel, yet Colin
17:24
Speaker 2: specifically says the song is inspired by real memories of
17:27
Speaker 2: porting his future wife around Coke Water in Swindon. What
17:32
Speaker 2: did you learn about Colin as a songwriter while working
17:34
Speaker 2: on the book. How does his writing different from Andy
17:36
Speaker 2: Partridge's approach.
17:38
Speaker 1: While Andy is more angular, you know, a bit more
17:41
Speaker 1: eccentric in his kind of in his way in the
17:46
Speaker 1: style of songwriting. Colin Moulding is more more melodic because
17:53
Speaker 1: they have a very stronger Beatles influence. You could, may
18:00
Speaker 1: be to put the things in a simple way, it
18:03
Speaker 1: says that Andy Prodge is a kind of John Lennon
18:07
Speaker 1: of XDC and and Colin Modle is upon mccardey is
18:10
Speaker 1: not exactly made this way. Parties is across maybe between
18:17
Speaker 1: Lennon and McCartney. Uh, while I think molding is more
18:23
Speaker 1: on the McCartney side or even the Harrison side, because
18:27
Speaker 1: he used to have a smaller fraction of of songs
18:32
Speaker 1: in every record. But interestingly, uh, when to Dragon was
18:36
Speaker 1: involved in inst skalarking, it happened that is this time
18:41
Speaker 1: Colin Malden had more songs than in every in the
18:45
Speaker 1: record that in every other ACTDC album. It's for for
18:52
Speaker 1: for song this time and Andy is anyway ready to
18:56
Speaker 1: recognize that they all of them were worthwhile, so the
19:02
Speaker 1: whole the word while being in the album.
19:08
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for checking out the Booked on Rock podcast.
19:10
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19:41
Speaker 2: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
19:44
Speaker 2: to the show. All right, let's get into Dear God.
19:48
Speaker 2: First release as the B side to Grass wasn't originally
19:52
Speaker 2: included on the first UK version of Skylarking, but US
19:55
Speaker 2: distributor Geffen Records recalled and repressed Skylarking with it included.
20:00
Speaker 2: How does a B side end up becoming one of
20:02
Speaker 2: xdc's most famous in defining songs.
20:04
Speaker 1: There's a funny story, even a bit strange story, Andy
20:11
Speaker 1: and the head of A and R Virgin. In the UK,
20:17
Speaker 1: it was called Jeremy lot Cells or something like that.
20:21
Speaker 1: We're worried that this song could provoke some kind of
20:29
Speaker 1: you know, strong reaction in the Catholic circles in America
20:36
Speaker 1: in particular, and they were right in uh In saying this.
20:40
Speaker 1: But uh Andy himself didn't recognize the value of the
20:46
Speaker 1: song in the first place. Maybe it doesn't think even
20:51
Speaker 1: now that Dear God was one of the best songs
20:55
Speaker 1: of the record. But this time Todd at his voice
21:00
Speaker 1: and it was right, because that was the song that
21:05
Speaker 1: Cut got to hear of the of the American audience
21:09
Speaker 1: in thanks to college radio in particular, and to a
21:14
Speaker 1: video that was played on MTV. Of course, there was
21:18
Speaker 1: a strong reaction about the contents of the song because
21:25
Speaker 1: this is a hatty song, but that opened the door
21:30
Speaker 1: for Ecstasy on the American market. So this time, even
21:36
Speaker 1: this time, Todd was on the right side. And Handy
21:40
Speaker 1: maybe underestimated the value of the song. He thought it
21:44
Speaker 1: was a bit simplistic in the lyric. He thought that
21:48
Speaker 1: he had to develop more deeply the thought and the
21:53
Speaker 1: meaning of the song. But I think that it's the target,
21:58
Speaker 1: very very strongly in a way, so.
22:01
Speaker 2: Sure, and one of the most memorable elements of the
22:04
Speaker 2: song is a child's voice. What's the story behind that?
22:07
Speaker 2: Who is that? How did she become part of that track.
22:10
Speaker 1: That's another funny story because, as many other people that
22:15
Speaker 1: listened to the record, seeing the video on MTV, I
22:21
Speaker 1: was sure. I was convinced that the voice was a
22:26
Speaker 1: voice of a little child, a male child. Instead, it
22:33
Speaker 1: was sung by a small female singer. She was maybe
22:40
Speaker 1: nine or ten or eleven at the time. It was
22:44
Speaker 1: a friend of friends in the Todd Drunken circles in Woodstock,
22:50
Speaker 1: and so she had already sang live with his parents.
22:56
Speaker 1: She was used to go on stage with the pants
22:59
Speaker 1: and very she was called upon on the studio and
23:04
Speaker 1: made this opening lines and closing lines of the song.
23:11
Speaker 1: So it was a very you know, simple simple thing.
23:17
Speaker 1: She was not sure what was happening until the record
23:21
Speaker 1: came out. She didn't know if her voice was in
23:24
Speaker 1: the song or not.
23:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's simple, but it's powerful. That child, the innocent
23:29
Speaker 2: child's voice. It just added a whole other element and
23:35
Speaker 2: just strength to the emotion of the song. Alfredo Marziano
23:39
Speaker 2: is the author of XDC Skylarking Life in a Day,
23:43
Speaker 2: The Making of a pop Classic. One of my favorite
23:46
Speaker 2: tracks is That's Really Super Supergirl. The song is often
23:50
Speaker 2: remembered as a playful, comic book inspired pop song, but
23:54
Speaker 2: any Partridge suggests it's really about romantic disappointment and being
23:58
Speaker 2: the dump be other than the dumper.
24:01
Speaker 1: That was another point of contention between him and Ranger
24:04
Speaker 1: because when Rangern listened to the demo, he immediately said
24:10
Speaker 1: this is the single, and Andy was not convinced. All
24:15
Speaker 1: he thought maybe it could be a B side. It
24:18
Speaker 1: didn't reckon it as one of the stronger songs on
24:22
Speaker 1: the on the record, and uh, but anyway, he has
24:27
Speaker 1: a kind of very alternative rock in a way, you know,
24:31
Speaker 1: feel to it that was very in tune with what
24:36
Speaker 1: the college radio in America used to play at the moment.
24:40
Speaker 1: So thought Rangon had the hears attuned to that, so
24:43
Speaker 1: he knew that it could be one of the catchiest songs.
24:47
Speaker 3: On the record.
24:49
Speaker 1: So another This is another example of how having the
24:55
Speaker 1: different hears listened to the record of man who has
25:01
Speaker 1: the experience and the here of Todd Dranglon was a big, big,
25:08
Speaker 1: big addition to the record.
25:11
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the guitar. One of the most fascinating
25:14
Speaker 2: stories in this chapter involves Eric Clapton's famous painted Gibson
25:18
Speaker 2: SG the fool. It's used during the sessions how significant
25:22
Speaker 2: was that guitar's contribution to the track, And what did
25:25
Speaker 2: Dave Gregory tell you about playing such a legendary instrument?
25:29
Speaker 1: Of course, he was amazed to find this instrument is
25:33
Speaker 1: a very very you know, famed instrument in the studio
25:39
Speaker 1: of in Tod Drangon studio.
25:41
Speaker 3: It was not in.
25:43
Speaker 1: Great shape maybe, but Dave with a very very clever instrumentalist,
25:52
Speaker 1: and he also knows how to manipulate to work on
25:58
Speaker 1: the guitars, the the things correctly, put new strings on
26:04
Speaker 1: the on that and so on, and so he didn't
26:07
Speaker 1: mind the the Clepton sound for for the song. And
26:12
Speaker 1: so it was very very very active. This chance to
26:18
Speaker 1: you know, to to look at the past in a
26:22
Speaker 1: way with the with with the song and with this.
26:25
Speaker 1: So the sound of this of this instrument that was
26:29
Speaker 1: later both by other people. I don't know we own
26:34
Speaker 1: is now, but it's a very very prizing instrument. So
26:38
Speaker 1: it was sold at an auction with for many many
26:41
Speaker 1: many thousands of dollars.
26:43
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm sure maybe, yeah, oh sure, I wouldn't responise.
26:48
Speaker 2: I'm sure people are curious how did he get his
26:51
Speaker 2: hands on that? How did that all?
26:52
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly, but when told to put his
26:56
Speaker 1: ends on the on the of the guitar was expensive
27:01
Speaker 1: but not you know, like like it is now. So
27:04
Speaker 1: maybe because also it was not in very good shape.
27:08
Speaker 1: I don't know how it happened that Clapton, you know,
27:12
Speaker 1: he has so many guitars and that was a yeah,
27:16
Speaker 1: that was but.
27:17
Speaker 2: It was it was Todd who who had it initially. Yeah,
27:21
Speaker 2: he's the.
27:22
Speaker 3: One when Clapton.
27:24
Speaker 1: When Clapton, uh, you know, sold someone, then Todd at
27:32
Speaker 1: the chance to to buy it. And so yeah, he
27:36
Speaker 1: also use it in some of his records. You can
27:39
Speaker 1: see I don't remember what what record it is. There
27:42
Speaker 1: is a photo in the Indus Leave with Todd playing
27:46
Speaker 1: this the full guitar with the psychedelic colors that was
27:51
Speaker 1: made by the Dutch band, the Dutchdoos was called the
27:54
Speaker 1: Fool and Uh. They used to collaborate with the Beatles
27:59
Speaker 1: and and so what was that the episode of the
28:03
Speaker 1: psychedelic movement and Revolutionary UK in the in the sixthes
28:08
Speaker 1: Clapton used to use this guitar when he was in
28:11
Speaker 1: the in Cream and uh and then yeah thought uh
28:18
Speaker 1: used it for some of these records, but at the
28:20
Speaker 1: time it was like a kind of a you know,
28:24
Speaker 1: a museum piece that was was jumping his studio.
28:28
Speaker 2: That's cool, all right, let's go to a side too now,
28:30
Speaker 2: opening track earn Enough for Us. Andy Partridge has said
28:33
Speaker 2: that the song came from his anxiety about supporting a
28:36
Speaker 2: family making ends meet. Dave Gregory's twelve string guitar solo
28:40
Speaker 2: became one of the defining moments of this song. There
28:43
Speaker 2: was a rare moment where Colin and Andy they had
28:48
Speaker 2: a serious argument over a bass part during the sessions.
28:51
Speaker 2: What was the argument over.
28:53
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly, but maybe Handy thought that the
28:59
Speaker 1: bassline minds that Colin was coming with were a bit
29:05
Speaker 1: too mellow for what he wanted. He wanted something more,
29:10
Speaker 1: something stronger, something larger. And yeah, it happened that Colin
29:19
Speaker 1: went out of the studio. He also said maybe he
29:23
Speaker 1: was going to to finish, to go out of the
29:28
Speaker 1: of the record, to leave us and go back to Britain.
29:33
Speaker 1: But it only went on for a couple of days.
29:37
Speaker 1: I think, not not more and bad and yeah, you
29:41
Speaker 1: know they're English people, very English, so they used to
29:47
Speaker 1: you know, to keep underwater their tensions usually ah to
29:54
Speaker 1: take everything inside of them. This is one of the
29:59
Speaker 1: rare cases in which the confrontation between them burst out.
30:06
Speaker 1: They were not used to to have big arguments in
30:11
Speaker 1: the studio, even if you know, even today calling and
30:17
Speaker 1: Andy and not exactly in good terms they used. Now
30:21
Speaker 1: they talked just for strictly for professional business things. Otherwise
30:29
Speaker 1: they are not in touch there nowadays. So this kind
30:34
Speaker 1: of tension was always there, and I think it's understandable
30:38
Speaker 1: because Colin is a songwriter too, So it happened just
30:44
Speaker 1: what happened with the George Harrison with the Beatle that
30:47
Speaker 1: we talked about, the comparison before.
30:50
Speaker 3: Harrison too.
30:53
Speaker 1: Left the Beatles, you know, during the session of the
30:59
Speaker 1: l Lene of B sessions. Yeah, with the B Sessions,
31:03
Speaker 1: and because he felt that his songs were not you know,
31:09
Speaker 1: appreciated enough from the other So I think Colin has
31:14
Speaker 1: this kind of appealing in himself. Usually he thought maybe
31:22
Speaker 1: it's not a prolific songwriter for INTI from such as Andy,
31:27
Speaker 1: but he sometimes felt that these songs could be more
31:35
Speaker 1: you know, uh, have more space in Ecstasy records. This
31:40
Speaker 1: is not a problem for Dave Gregory, for example, because
31:43
Speaker 1: he doesn't write songs, so he was the man who
31:47
Speaker 1: was very, very a key element for arranging songs, for
31:52
Speaker 1: finding the right sounds, especially with the guitars, but also
31:56
Speaker 1: with piano and with strings, because Sky Larkin he plays
32:02
Speaker 1: excellent piano in some songs. It's not a virtuoso player,
32:07
Speaker 1: but he plays very, very good lines at the piano.
32:12
Speaker 1: And he also produced a very another extounded arrangement of
32:18
Speaker 1: a song on side one that is one thousand umbrellas.
32:23
Speaker 1: That's a song with a string section, and that was
32:26
Speaker 1: just a work of genius by David Gregory.
32:30
Speaker 2: And several people that were involved with the sessions for
32:33
Speaker 2: Earn Enough for Us say that that should have been
32:36
Speaker 2: released as a single. If you look back now, nearly
32:38
Speaker 2: forty years later, do you think Virgin Records made a
32:41
Speaker 2: mistake on this? Did they miss an opportunity by not
32:43
Speaker 2: pushing it harder.
32:45
Speaker 1: It's difficult to, you know, to evaluate these things later,
32:51
Speaker 1: because yeah, it's another song with chimey chiming guitar, a
32:58
Speaker 1: bit reminiscent maybe of Birds or you know, maybe Harry
33:06
Speaker 1: m or the other bands that were around at the time,
33:09
Speaker 1: But who knows. I thought that Grass was a great single.
33:15
Speaker 1: It didn't it didn't go anywhere, So you.
33:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well the album opened with Summer's Cauldron eventually
33:26
Speaker 2: closes with Sacrificial Bonfire. How important was Todd Runggren's secreencing
33:31
Speaker 2: concept in transforming these songs into a complete life cycle
33:35
Speaker 2: narrative rather than simply the first and last tracks on
33:38
Speaker 2: an album, Because you did talk about he had an
33:42
Speaker 2: idea in mind for the track sequencing.
33:44
Speaker 1: Is what I say in the title of the of
33:47
Speaker 1: the album, a life, the life in the day. So
33:50
Speaker 1: you wanted to kind of, you know, to chart what
33:57
Speaker 1: what happens in the life of a man, but also
34:01
Speaker 1: to put the things in order to show how that
34:07
Speaker 1: happens in a with the season, the cycle of the seasons.
34:15
Speaker 1: And so this was a kind of a are narrative
34:21
Speaker 1: arc that he had from the beginning. And I think that, yeah,
34:27
Speaker 1: that that's a very important element of the record. So
34:31
Speaker 1: the sequences in the case of this record, it's very important,
34:34
Speaker 1: even if it's not a concept album. But you can't
34:41
Speaker 1: scramble it's so so much. There were other other clashes
34:48
Speaker 1: about what songs to put in and what songs to
34:52
Speaker 1: put out. So when Dear God was finally included in
34:58
Speaker 1: the US version, because of the limits of the Land
35:03
Speaker 1: of the Vinyl, they had to put out a song,
35:07
Speaker 1: and they chose to put out Mermaid Smile and Todd
35:14
Speaker 1: Dragen was not agreeing with this decision. He thought that
35:18
Speaker 1: the song to Sacrifice was another satellite that's maybe it's
35:26
Speaker 1: right because it's a different mood from the rest of
35:30
Speaker 1: the of the album. It's a more electronic sounding song.
35:35
Speaker 1: And Todd doesn't like it at all. I like it
35:40
Speaker 1: very much, but maybe it's a bit yeah, out of place,
35:45
Speaker 1: you could say. Maybe Now I'm used to listen to it,
35:50
Speaker 1: so I'm accustomed to have it on the but I
35:54
Speaker 1: think maybe it would be better. It would have been
35:58
Speaker 1: better to take Urbs mayahin and take out. And Andy
36:04
Speaker 1: was not of this idea because he very likes matched
36:06
Speaker 1: that song. It's an important song for him.
36:11
Speaker 2: Find the bookdown Rock website at bookdown rock dot com.
36:15
Speaker 2: There you can find all the back episodes of the show,
36:17
Speaker 2: the latest episode in video and audio, links to all
36:20
Speaker 2: of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
36:22
Speaker 2: plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
36:28
Speaker 2: and x. Also check out the booked on Rock blog.
36:31
Speaker 2: Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest
36:34
Speaker 2: hot rock book releases, and before you go, check out
36:37
Speaker 2: the booked on rock online store, pick up some booked
36:39
Speaker 2: on rock Merch. It's all at booked on rock dot com. Now.
36:44
Speaker 2: Under the controversial original cover artwork and the Todd Runggre
36:48
Speaker 2: and Andy Partridge mixing feud, let's start with the cover artwork.
36:51
Speaker 2: The original cover for Skylarking was rejected because Virgin Records
36:55
Speaker 2: felt it was too controversial. It was finally restored years later.
37:00
Speaker 2: Was on that cover and do you think the label
37:02
Speaker 2: overreacted or can you understand why they were nervous about
37:04
Speaker 2: it releasing it at that time in nineteen eighty six.
37:07
Speaker 1: Well, I remember that record shop owners and megastores in
37:14
Speaker 1: the UK say no, we can't put this on the shelves.
37:19
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, maybe they were right. Is a bit,
37:24
Speaker 1: you know, a bit strong like so I personally prefer
37:32
Speaker 1: the second version, So the one the album, the cover
37:39
Speaker 1: that came out. I think it's more evocative, more ah,
37:46
Speaker 1: more poetic in a way. And Departure took it from
37:49
Speaker 1: a from a painting in a book that he had
37:53
Speaker 1: at home, and it was a quick decision anyway to
37:58
Speaker 1: to add this second second version. I think this is
38:02
Speaker 1: better than the original idea. I understand the point in
38:07
Speaker 1: in Andy when you say that the written the pubic
38:11
Speaker 1: image and kind of a very healthy feel that you
38:16
Speaker 1: wanted to to communicate with the with the album. But
38:22
Speaker 1: I think that this image is more is more evocative,
38:27
Speaker 1: it's more kind of old fashion, but very attuned to
38:32
Speaker 1: the to the sounds and the songs on the record.
38:35
Speaker 1: So I can see, ah what Virgin thought about it,
38:42
Speaker 1: and I think they were clever in saying no, it's
38:46
Speaker 1: better to to have another another cover because they you know,
38:51
Speaker 1: they already uh, bad feedback from the retailers.
38:57
Speaker 2: All right, So let's talk about the mix now. So
39:00
Speaker 2: Tad Runggren has consistently rejected the idea that he delivered
39:03
Speaker 2: a flawed mix, and Departures remained convinced something was wrong.
39:08
Speaker 2: Talk about the polarity issue quote unquote polarity issue and
39:13
Speaker 2: why the two men remained so far apart from that
39:15
Speaker 2: finished mix for so many years.
39:18
Speaker 1: You know, I've listened to the to the record, of
39:21
Speaker 1: course in a different configuration mixing mixes, and I can't
39:28
Speaker 1: see personally a very strong difference between the two. Yeah,
39:36
Speaker 1: maybe the vinyl he sounds that a bit flat, that's
39:41
Speaker 1: for sure. It seems this was the polarity issues just
39:44
Speaker 1: happened that the cables were connected in the wrong way.
39:49
Speaker 1: So it's a very simple and maybe stupid mistake. I
39:54
Speaker 1: don't know who made it, maybe a tape operator.
39:58
Speaker 3: Or something or some like that.
40:01
Speaker 1: And yeah, it sounded like it was a bit flat.
40:06
Speaker 1: But when it came out on CD, oh I didn't
40:10
Speaker 1: see this great, great difference between the original version and
40:16
Speaker 1: the one with the polarity corrected.
40:18
Speaker 3: The one we're probably corrected.
40:20
Speaker 1: It's one with the original cover that's come out in
40:23
Speaker 1: the in this way too. So maybe this is another
40:28
Speaker 1: one of the you know, anti partridges sometimes that is
40:31
Speaker 1: a strong ideas is strong ideas, and it's difficult to
40:38
Speaker 1: make it change his mind about things. So, for example,
40:43
Speaker 1: Todd rang has always, uh, you know, said, this is
40:47
Speaker 1: a kind of bullshit, not a very important, not a
40:52
Speaker 1: very important thing. So it's another funny thing. And yes,
40:58
Speaker 1: maybe with the polarity the correct polarity version is brighter
41:03
Speaker 1: in sound. Maybe it is a bit deeper, but you
41:08
Speaker 1: I think you you need a very high hand equipment
41:14
Speaker 1: maybe too, to detect the difference.
41:18
Speaker 2: When Skylarking was released in eighty six, only a modest
41:21
Speaker 2: commercial success. Why do you think it took years, perhaps
41:24
Speaker 2: decades for listeners and critics to fully appreciate what XTC
41:27
Speaker 2: had accomplished.
41:29
Speaker 1: Well in the US. Anyway, it was an important record
41:33
Speaker 1: for XDC. He saved their career. So it's a very
41:37
Speaker 1: important album for them. He literally saved their career because,
41:43
Speaker 1: as I said before, it opened the doors and the
41:47
Speaker 1: gates of the of the college radio and the rock
41:52
Speaker 1: audiences in.
41:55
Speaker 3: America.
41:57
Speaker 1: Maybe the very the point is that XTACY didn't promote
42:04
Speaker 1: it by playing live, because they didn't play live, so
42:09
Speaker 1: and usually at the times in the eighties, if you
42:13
Speaker 1: didn't play live and go to every place, every little
42:18
Speaker 1: town in America in particular, you still you didn't stand
42:24
Speaker 1: the chance to have a ready already a really big success.
42:29
Speaker 2: You know, And only r EM probably are EM's the
42:32
Speaker 2: only example of being able to get away with that,
42:34
Speaker 2: because they stopped touring and their albums were still doing well,
42:37
Speaker 2: but they had already built up the cachet. At that
42:40
Speaker 2: point people knew of of r EM, you know, millions
42:44
Speaker 2: and millions of fans had already known about our Em.
42:48
Speaker 2: Whereas actually see now from a commercial standpoint, I think
42:50
Speaker 2: this was the beginning of that period where they had
42:54
Speaker 2: some commercial success. So yeah, maybe they would have they
42:57
Speaker 2: would have capitalized more if they toured.
42:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the other things to say, ah ari Am
43:03
Speaker 1: had a very strong and charismatic frontman, and XC didn't
43:09
Speaker 1: have a stronger charismatic from them. Andy Patches is a
43:15
Speaker 1: different kind of of musicians and different kind of character.
43:20
Speaker 1: He is not the physical presence of of Michael Stipe.
43:26
Speaker 1: Uh for sure. Peter Back is a big fan of XDC,
43:30
Speaker 1: and I can you can detect it in there in
43:33
Speaker 1: there in his music sometimes. And but anyway, I think
43:38
Speaker 1: they didn't have the look the image for being a
43:44
Speaker 1: mass market rock group.
43:47
Speaker 3: Uh.
43:48
Speaker 1: The this is I think that the person The other
43:52
Speaker 1: thing that I said, they Yeah, they were not playing live,
43:58
Speaker 1: but it was also a very difficult it would be
44:01
Speaker 1: a very difficult record to play live. When they when
44:06
Speaker 1: they did The Oranges and Lemons, it was the following record,
44:11
Speaker 1: and it's another record who had a good success between
44:17
Speaker 1: the rock audiences and the college radio in America.
44:21
Speaker 3: They did a clever move.
44:22
Speaker 1: They just did a kind of a very very small
44:26
Speaker 1: promotional touring in radio's and TV playing just acoustically the
44:33
Speaker 1: songs of O the record. Maybe they should have done
44:37
Speaker 1: something similar for Scalelark Skylarking to open the market to it. Anyway,
44:47
Speaker 1: it was, as I said before, it was a very
44:51
Speaker 1: real life boat for them.
44:53
Speaker 2: Well a Mayor of Simpleton is just an absolutely perfect
44:57
Speaker 2: pop rock song.
44:58
Speaker 3: For a day is another king for the record?
45:01
Speaker 2: Yes, great so great song. So I think maybe you
45:04
Speaker 2: answered the question what do you think the lasting legacy
45:07
Speaker 2: of Skylarking is nearly forty years after its release, not
45:10
Speaker 2: just for SDC, but for popular music as a whole.
45:13
Speaker 2: And I think you answered it. But what do you
45:15
Speaker 2: think that is?
45:17
Speaker 1: I think this is a very good example of what
45:22
Speaker 1: the craft of making pop songs mean because if you
45:30
Speaker 1: listen carefully to the record and read what the musician
45:35
Speaker 1: Bob say about how it was created, you see how
45:40
Speaker 1: much effort and how much creativity was put into a
45:49
Speaker 1: record like that. So they always say that when a
45:56
Speaker 1: great record is made by a great song, a great performance,
46:02
Speaker 1: and a great sound, And I think this record has
46:07
Speaker 1: these three elements very very strongly in It is not
46:14
Speaker 1: the thing that you find every day in every record,
46:17
Speaker 1: and so I think This is one of of the
46:21
Speaker 1: reasons why it's still very still very relevant, great songs,
46:27
Speaker 1: great performance, because as I said before, there are some
46:32
Speaker 1: details that you, even after forty years listen to it,
46:36
Speaker 1: you sometimes find, oh, something clicked in you. Well, what's
46:42
Speaker 1: this is the tiple, This is a you know, I said,
46:46
Speaker 1: the chump, that the sound of the chamberlain, and what's
46:49
Speaker 1: this sound that's like timpanies but as no timpany is
46:53
Speaker 1: a just drum kit. And even found these very little
46:57
Speaker 1: details that make it magical every time you listen to it.
47:03
Speaker 1: So this is why this is always fresh every time
47:08
Speaker 1: you listen to it. It's one of the red Usually
47:12
Speaker 1: many of the record of the eighties sound dated. Now
47:17
Speaker 1: in this record there's this use of some instrument that
47:21
Speaker 1: you can say are dated now that the fair Lights
47:23
Speaker 1: CMI synthesizer back then was a real you know, innovator,
47:30
Speaker 1: innovator music was a kind of you know, magical new instrument.
47:37
Speaker 1: Nowadays these kind of sounds maybe are not so.
47:42
Speaker 3: Fresh, but.
47:45
Speaker 1: It doesn't affect the overall sound of Skylark In This
47:50
Speaker 1: still sounds very fresh. At the core of this for me,
47:55
Speaker 1: as always, there are the songs and the songs are
47:57
Speaker 1: really great.
48:01
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for checking out the Booked on Rock podcast.
48:03
Speaker 2: If you've just found the podcast, welcome. If you've been listening,
48:07
Speaker 2: thank you so much for your support, and make sure
48:09
Speaker 2: you tell a friend, a family member, share on social
48:12
Speaker 2: media and let people know about Booked on Rock And
48:15
Speaker 2: if you do like the podcast, make sure you subscribe
48:18
Speaker 2: give a five star review. Wherever you listen to the
48:20
Speaker 2: bookd on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
48:25
Speaker 2: tune In, and on YouTube music. You can check out
48:28
Speaker 2: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
48:31
Speaker 2: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
48:34
Speaker 2: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
48:37
Speaker 2: to the show. XDC Skylarking A Life in a Day
48:41
Speaker 2: The Making of a pop classic out now through Lilybooks
48:44
Speaker 2: and find it wherever books are sold. Look for at
48:46
Speaker 2: your nearest bookstore. Go to bookdown rock dot com to
48:49
Speaker 2: find your nearest independent bookstore. And if people want to
48:53
Speaker 2: find you onlinelf RIGHTO. Are you available through social media,
48:56
Speaker 2: website and anything like that.
48:58
Speaker 1: I'm not available so at all on a website. I
49:01
Speaker 1: just have a Facebook Facebook profile. I'm not so using
49:06
Speaker 1: so much social media, but I'm quite active on Facebook
49:10
Speaker 1: with with my name, with my name Alfredo Marciano.
49:14
Speaker 2: That's perfect. Yeah, we'll put the link in the show
49:16
Speaker 2: notes and we look forward to having you back on
49:20
Speaker 2: again in the future, Afreida. Do you have any projects
49:22
Speaker 2: in the works right now?
49:23
Speaker 1: I have some projects in mind or another one maybe
49:27
Speaker 1: with XDC too, but it always depends on the availability
49:33
Speaker 1: of the musicians. So I wanted to make other books
49:37
Speaker 1: in this milestones thing, but it depends on the on
49:46
Speaker 1: the musicians. If if I have the chance to talk
49:50
Speaker 1: with the musician and let them be the real protagonists
49:55
Speaker 1: of the book and to talk, that's okay. I can
49:59
Speaker 1: go to to develop other projects. Otherwise, I'm not interested
50:03
Speaker 1: in writing an essay about a record. I think that
50:09
Speaker 1: there are many of them on the marketplace, so that
50:13
Speaker 1: the important thing for me is to have the artist
50:16
Speaker 1: to say is things to talk about their writing and
50:23
Speaker 1: recording process. So something is mine. But at the moment,
50:28
Speaker 1: I'm still waiting for some artists to give me the
50:34
Speaker 1: red the green light. But surely I have the project
50:39
Speaker 1: to go on with the other books like that.
50:42
Speaker 2: Well, you're welcome back any time to talk about those books,
50:46
Speaker 2: and you mentioned the Milestone series, which is a great
50:48
Speaker 2: series from Lily Publishing. We've had we've covered some of
50:52
Speaker 2: the books from that series, Pau McCartney in Wings, Ben
50:54
Speaker 2: on the Run, John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, Pau McCartney's
50:58
Speaker 2: Press to Play. Just recently did that with Luca Parassi.
51:01
Speaker 2: It's a great series. And Alfredo, thank you so much
51:04
Speaker 2: for coming on to talk about this book, introducing me
51:07
Speaker 2: to the complete album because I knew the singles, but
51:09
Speaker 2: now I'm a fan of the entire album, So thank
51:11
Speaker 2: you for that.
51:12
Speaker 3: Thank you, Eric.
51:14
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you are interested in xt C in
51:18
Speaker 1: albums right now. So that was my aim too, maybe yeah,
51:23
Speaker 1: attract other people or to wonder what is great about XDC,
51:29
Speaker 1: because yeah, there are cult artists today and we are
51:34
Speaker 1: quite happy of the audience the reaction to a book
51:40
Speaker 1: like this, but I think they deserve more recognition and recognition.
51:49
Speaker 2: Anyway, agreed, Alfredo, Thank you again.
51:52
Speaker 3: Thank you again.
51:53
Speaker 2: Eric.
52:01
Speaker 3: That's it. It's in the books.