Latest / The Resting Stitch Face Podcast / Cavitations, Ozone & Misinformation: Who Should You Trust?
Transcript
- Sarah Harding: Hello and Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Sarah Harding: welcome back for another episode of the Resting Stitch Face Podcast. I'm your co-host, Dr. Sarah Harding, along with Erin Sheffield: Dr. Aaron Sheffield. Welcome back. Sarah Harding: Hola Welcome back. Erin Sheffield: We are really excited to talk about this topic today. Healthcare is built on trust. So, what happens when patients hear completely different stories from different dentists or doctors? Today we're talking about cavitations, customer service, and where evidence, experience, and expectations collide. So I know we've touched on particularly the cavitations topic kind of here and there in the past, but I think it's something that's getting so much traction online and I thought it'd be kind of fun and helpful to chat about more. Sarah Harding: Yeah, I agree. And I can't quite understand why it's getting so much traction online. Erin Sheffield: I I wish it weren't. That's exactly Sarah Harding: Well, you know. Erin Sheffield: it. Sarah Harding: Yeah. I think that it's just something different. And I think that people just have a general distrust of the dentist. Erin Sheffield: Yes. Sarah Harding: And nobody likes a root canal. Nobody likes an extraction. And now it's like, see, that's why I didn't like it. It's because it was causing my meridians to be inflamed, you know? So Erin Sheffield: Right. Exactly. I think that's true. So I was just looking this up. This is what Google AI says, so who knows if it's true, but I like the idea behind it. Misinformation spreads about six times faster and reaches far more people than the truth, taking roughly ten hours to reach fifteen hundred users compared to sixty hours for factual stories. So it's so interesting, I think, that people want to believe these things. there's Definitely incentive for some reason, whether it's just like a dopamine hit in our brains. And when you have had experiences at the doctor or the dentist that have been unpleasant and you don't want to pay to get that stuff done, it's so nice to have someone who seems legitimate giving you excuse. See, you don't have to do that. See, they're Sarah Harding: Right. Erin Sheffield: wrong all along. See, they were predatory and taking advantage of you. Sarah Harding: Yes. But on the contrary, now it really seems like, see, all those things. You were right about all those things. Now come and give me tons and tons of money to fix it and with ways that aren't really proven. Erin Sheffield: That's what I don't understand. So this is so funny. Yesterday in my clinic, I had a patient come in and they were a patient of my partner who had taken out wisdom teeth like nine months ago. And they were saying he keeps having swelling. He keeps having swelling in the area of the wisdom tooth and we don't know what's going on. And so you're right. Sarah Harding: Which happens sometimes, right? Like if there's something going on. Erin Sheffield: And so he's like a healthy young guy and so I'm like, Well let's get a th con beam C T scan. That's what they always get for the cavitations, right? They're not the only ones getting those. They always act like Sarah Harding: Yes. Strangely sorry, I'll touch on that in a little bit. Okay. Erin Sheffield: They always act like we're the only ones getting this special Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: x-ray. And it's like I would say most dentists have this technology in their office to begin with. But I got a cone beam and I'm looking at it and I'm like, boy, I just I'm not really sure what's going on here. And the bone looked kinda funny where the wizen tooth had been. So I'm looking at the x-ray and there's like kind of a scooped out appearance where it's been healing and hasn't filled in all the way. And again, I wouldn't really worry about that. but I'm like, huh, I'm not seeing anything. Maybe the cavitations thing, maybe there's something too, some inflammation from the healing. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Maybe, maybe this is it. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: And then I go in and see the patient, and it was so obvious clinically. He has unerupted second molars. So partially erupted on the bottom, completely impacted on the top. So he's got pericornitis. He's got pus pouring out from the soft tissue from the inflammation. And so these are basically third molars 2.0. You know, so Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: well, that's what this is. It's not some cavitation or some crazy this is obviously what it is. But I was thinking this would be my chance to sell this, right? So I'm like, that's always asymptomatic, it sounds like. And to get people to Sarah Harding: Yeah. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: agree to asymptomatic treatment that you can only see on a special x-ray that you have to pay extra for in the first place to get and to go through the radiation when you're a Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Erin Sheffield: wellness person that probably doesn't like the radiation, to then Sarah Harding: Mm. Erin Sheffield: convince you to spend not just like Couple hundred dollars like we would for a normal surgery for this kind of thing, but spend thousands, ten thousand. So this was my chance. Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tens of thousands. Erin Sheffield: And then the mom said something golden. If I were a holistic dentist, she says, Well, like, would you get all of them out or just this one? Because I know how important the teeth and the wisdom teeth are, because they're so connected to the whole body. And that's the thing they always say, right? Like Sarah Harding: They are. I mean everything Yeah. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: It's connected to the trigeminis and and so it's so important. And so I just said, you know, I'm all for like non-traditional medicine, Chinese medicine, Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Eastern medicine, all of those things. Are you talking about like meridian lines or something like that? They said, Yeah, we are. And I said, Well, I kind of feel like any advantage, your liver, your kidneys, or your Whatever is connected is getting from that is probably negated by the infection and the inflammation pouring from this tooth. But I mean, that's that's the mentality. And it was just kind of funny to me that, you know, this is a conversation we're having. Luckily, maybe the rural Midwest we're not really focused so much on these TikTok topics, but they're definitely coming our way. And lost opportunity. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually really surprised that you had that conversation. Erin Sheffield: If I had some ozone I would have been like able to make the the sail pretty hard probably. Sarah Harding: Yeah. You just need to centrifuge. You gotta start doing PRF, you know? That can be that can be your bridge. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Yeah. I can support that. I mean at least that's evidence based. Sarah Harding: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think when you said that about the radiation, that was my when all of this came out, that was one of my biggest things. Cause it was like we are holistic dentists and we don't like to do things to the body that are unnecessary and all of this stuff. And I'm like, but you're getting an C B C T So that's I mean, it's not a ton of radiation, but it's additional radiation for an asymptomatic Erin Sheffield: Mm-hmm. Sarah Harding: issue Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Sarah Harding: so that you can look at it and point out things that are normal anatomy and give make yourself a case for why you should be doing this excessive treatment. And I'm like, but I don't understand because your first thing is that you're, you know, doing nothing unnatural, but you're in increasing or introducing this extra radiation that's unnecessary in the first place. Erin Sheffield: Right. Sarah Harding: So Erin Sheffield: Well, in order to draw the line between what's natural and holistic and not because it's ooh, Sarah Harding: Right. Erin Sheffield: metals. Metals are so bad. Metals are natural, aren't they? We're so afraid of metals. We're so afraid of titanium. Sarah Harding: We do in fact mine them, yes. Erin Sheffield: We have to do ceramic implants, things like that. And yet we're doing composites. Well, composites are basically plastic. Well let's talk about microplastics and the Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Erin Sheffield: chemicals, the many chemicals we have to use to even Sarah Harding: Right. Erin Sheffield: get them to bond and all of that. So it just seems a little inconsistent and kind of unusual to me. Sarah Harding: It does. Yeah. It does to me too. Yeah. And I think w one thing that I've found is difficult is I almost just want to go and sit in on a consultation or go in for a consultation because I don't understand how you can talk people into this. Like I literally have a hard time telling people, because now I'm in a pediatric practice, right? And just saying like Yeah, now's a great time to get your wisdom teeth out. And I'm showing them exactly where the nerve is and their incomplete root formation and how it's like sitting right on the nerve and these third molars are tucked up in the second molars and they're not going anywhere, but the roots sure are. And Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Sarah Harding: you know, and I point all this out to them and they're just like, I just don't know if it's time. I just don't know if it's the right time. And I'm like, Or Yeah, or like, or Erin Sheffield: I just told you it was the right time. This is the best time. Sarah Harding: is my insurance gonna pay for that? And I'm like. Well, no matter when you do this, your insurance will never cover a hundred percent of your wisdom tooth extraction. Erin Sheffield: Mm-hmm. Sarah Harding: I mean, maybe there's some insurances that do, but very few and very far between. You know, and so it's like we can take it out now and avoid, you know, pain and suffering later, I guess. or we can wait and still it's gonna cost more than because Prices always go up and there you're probably gonna if you're gonna wait until it's an issue, then there's gonna be other issues too. I don't know. I Erin Sheffield: Right. Sarah Harding: mean, I just don't know, like I don't know how is the best way to talk to people so that they because I feel like they think I'm selling them a service instead of taking care of them. And Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Right. Sarah Harding: I'm not, I'm the worst freaking salesman. I can't sell I mean, dude, I would be like, you know what? You do need a car. Let me help you get that car, right? I mean, I just suck at it. And so, I mean, it's bad. Here's an example. I think I might have told you this before. My first job was Cracker Barrel. And they always tried to get me the manager lady. They always had this thing they were trying to push. And one day it was those nasty orange circus peanuts. And I was like seven, and I was like 17 Erin Sheffield: Ha that's a big push thing. Wow. Wow. Sarah Harding: at the time, right? And I'm like, not into wellness or any of this stuff. and I'm like, no, those are disgusting. And I can't and I cannot in good faith tell people that they should spend their money on that because it's gross. And like Erin Sheffield: my gosh. Sarah Harding: I put my foot down because I'm like, no, I can't stand for that. And like Erin Sheffield: She like even the ethics, you're so blasted ethical, you can't even sell candy, you can't get behind. Well, the frustrating Sarah Harding: Bom. Erin Sheffield: thing to me, and I think to all of us, is kind of the heart of what you've said already. It's so hard to get people to trust us and to take the leap for treatment that is actually beneficial or sometimes even very necessary. Like sometimes even they're like in pain and still don't know if they wanna do it or still don't wanna use the finances or come up with the finances or take the time or whatever it is. And yet these people, I will call them grifters. Let's just be clear, straight out about my opinion on them. They have no qualms about preying on that. And then it's not just Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: what does it cost to take out a third molar? Probably like $500. But then we're hearing about cavitation prevention, third molar removal by a non-surgeon Sarah Harding: Right. Erin Sheffield: who probably takes three, four times as long as I do, which that's gonna cause problems surgically post op and everything. and they'll charge you ten, eleven thousand dollars w without batting an eye. And the patients are like, please, and you see the messages on these videos, you know, say cavitation or holistic dentistry, and it's just like hundreds of comments, cavitation, holistic dentistry, cavitation, holistic dentistry. and then people like one comment I read was someone was like, I had my wisdom teeth out, and I regret it so much because I'm having heart problems or my kidneys or I got diagnosed with breast cancer. And so I'm trying to save up my money to come see you from Europe because I'm just having all these problems and I know you're the only person that can help me. And like, wow, Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: that that's really hard for me to swallow. And that's why, you Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: know, I've been kind of calling them out because it's it's predatory. It's preying on vulnerable Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: people who are Willing to do whatever it takes to be well. And that's really sad. Sarah Harding: So then do you think that they get sued more? Because then what happens if your kidney issues don't get better? Or do you think it's like placebo? What do you like? I I think that's what I don't really understand because I've had plenty of patients that get mad because they were having headaches. And I always say, like, I will take out your wisdom teeth. That may not solve the problem, right? But I do know that Erin Sheffield: Right. Right. Yeah, exactly. Sarah Harding: you have a baseline level of inflammation based on the look of these wisdom teeth and the gingiva Erin Sheffield: Mm-hmm. Sarah Harding: around them and all the stuff. that maybe that's contributing, but I can't say that that's causing it, you know? Erin Sheffield: I don't know. It seems like they just get away with things unchecked that we aren't maybe comfortable getting away with. I mean, Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: I am hearing there have been lawsuits, et cetera, and I'd love to h hear more, learn more about that. But yeah, it just seems like they're getting away with crazy stuff that we could never consider. It's it's wild. and I just I just don't like that preying on it. And you'd sent me that video. About a woman who'd got pregnant two weeks after her cavitation surgery. It's a miracle. And as a IVF mama and someone who dealt with infertility, that's like where I really draw the line. Like Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: there is not a more vulnerable, desperate population than the Sarah Harding: No, no. Erin Sheffield: IVF mama, you know? So Sarah Harding: No. Erin Sheffield: and you could say whatever you want and I was on the back end of that a little bit. Maybe I've told this story already, but my husband was friends with a woman who was selling essential oils. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: And she was like, I heard you're trying to get pregnant. Here are some essential oils your wife can try. So we kind of joked around and tried everyone, you I put it on like maybe three times. The ironic thing is when you were going in for your embryo transfer, you are not allowed to wear anything scented. Like you can't even wear deodorant because Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: that can harm the embryo. So it's kind of very antithetical to the essential oils for how I'm getting Sarah Harding: Yeah. Well, and that was like Erin Sheffield: pregnant. Sarah Harding: right. And that's what Natalie Crawford was talking about, was all of the endocrine disruptors. And all of the scents are like not all of them, but a significant portion of scents are endocrine disruptors. Erin Sheffield: Yeah. So you're not even allowed to wear them when you go in and have that done. And then as soon as I was pregnant, she was posting all over the internet the doTERRA and I was pregnant with triplets at that point. The doTERRA triplets, which I don't think that's good marketing because I don't know that many people that are like, Wow, I want triplets. But you know, that I mean it worked threefold. Right. So Sarah Harding: Yeah. Not only fertile, but like super fertile. Let's do this. Erin Sheffield: but I thought that was so interesting to just Market and capitalize on that, especially Sarah Harding: Yes. Erin Sheffield: knowing how much pain and difficulty we'd gone through to get pregnant. And yep, it was the doTERRA. It had nothing to do with the fifth embryo transfer I'd done and the hundreds of shots I'd given myself. It was essential oils, I am sure. Sarah Harding: For sure. Erin Sheffield: and then even a year later, she was posting pictures like the DOTERRA twins turned one, you know. Ugh, yeah, that's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. So go Sarah Harding: Wow. Wow. Yeah. I guess Erin Sheffield: ahead. Sarah Harding: I think that it goes back, we were talking a little bit before about why why dentistry is treated as I th and my husband and I were talking about this last night. Like I am not a retail store. I am not a restaurant. You know, we in the Navy even I used to joke because people come in and start like demanding things. And I'm like, did you see the burking sign when you came in? You know, like, did you see it? Did did it say have it your way? Right? Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Have it your way, dentistry. That's what I've been saying for years too. Sarah Harding: And like, I just can't understand how we have fallen into this trap of customer service, which I think is super important, right? Because I think that being in a place that is a vulnerable place. It is so important to recognize the importance of customer service and the importance of making your patients feel comfortable, feel welcome, feel like they have some control because it is a really vulnerable position to be in. And so I understand that. But when it comes to you're coming to me because you have a medical issue and you want me to. negotiate with your insurance company that you chose that plan for whatever reason you chose. But you want me to now work with your insurance company to get you a discounted rate on my services that never were discounted and obtaining them. Erin Sheffield: The tuition discount, yeah. Mm-hmm. Sarah Harding: Right? I mean, sure, I didn't pay tuition, but I did spend twelve years of my life in service to the United States of America and the Navy in order to Erin Sheffield: Thank you for your service. Sarah Harding: be in order to be here so that you can ask me why your insurance isn't paying for it. Right? And and it I don't know. I don't like insurance. Erin Sheffield: I don't know. I try not to know. Sarah Harding: And I just I'm like, we're talking last night and I'm like, I just don't even understand. Like, I think we all just need to stop taking it or just say, like, I'm out of network and you can figure out how to do it. And it's so interesting. And Stephanie Reeder and I were talking yesterday about this because it's like, why have we tricked ourselves into doing hiring now? We have to have a person in the office that is paid more than everybody else in the office. To sit on the phone with the insurance company for on hold and to get no answers from them on your behalf because you don't know what your plan is entitling you to, or how much you've used, or what your explanation of benefits will say, or what is covered and what is not covered. And they tell us, sorry, I guess you'll just have to wait for the explanation of benefits to come out so you'll know if it's covered or not. Like, Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Sarah Harding: I don't care. I'm not gonna go to the grocery store. And then tell you that my friend who knows groceries is gonna tell me how much I should pay for this and then they'll cut you a check. Erin Sheffield: Well, and even in medicine, I feel like it's not quite the same. I've had times where, mm, you're pretty healthy, but maybe it'd be helpful to do some labs. Should we do some labs? And like, well, you really think I should Yeah, why why don't we? And then you show up to the lab and you get poked, and I don't have to complain and tell people how much I hate getting poked for that. It just happens. And then And then six weeks later, I get a twelve hundred dollar bill for labs Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: that I didn't probably even need, that we just decided, why not? And then I'm just like, darn, that was twelve hundred bucks. And that's the end of it. But Sarah Harding: Yeah, yeah. Erin Sheffield: in our office, it's like, that was fifty doll more than you said when you fall into a huge O turns into O D B L, Sarah Harding: Right. Erin Sheffield: carries excavation or something, you know? Sarah Harding: Yeah, yeah. Erin Sheffield: And so even beyond the financial side too is just this idea that you get to dictate treatment. I remember dental school interview, you know, this patient says they want to have all of their teeth out, but you don't think they need to. What do you do? And that that's a ethical screening question they had on the interview, 'cause Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: you don't get to just do whatever the patient wants. It's not a hair salon, it's not Sarah Harding: And Erin Sheffield: Dillard's where we can Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: order y that size in black and you know have the tailor adjusted to you. We can only offer what you need and what's as cool. Well, you and I tend to only do that. Some of these people don't, but Sarah Harding: Right. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: it's not really a patient service or customer service model because it's a patient care. And that's tricky. And I think so much in dentistry we discount, we're so afraid of the bad review. We're so afraid of losing A patient that Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: we twist ourselves in circles. And if you go on any of the Facebook Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: dental groups, like the questions people ask, like, what should I do? This crazy patient's demanding XYZ or this. And I kind of feel like, let Who you know, one bad review. But it's Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: so easy. Well, just give it to for free. Just make go away. I hate that. Sarah Harding: I hate that too. And then the other point is that that I've seen popping up more and more on social media is that patients that have full reign, they can go on to Yelp or whatever and write whatever they want to do. But HIPAA binds our hands behind Erin Sheffield: Uh-huh. Sarah Harding: our back. And we are not even allowed to say like that we cannot even acknowledge that that patient was a patient of our practice or not, Erin Sheffield: Right. Sarah Harding: right? You know what I mean? Like or you can say, like, I based on the name, this is not a patient of record. You know, but they can just totally demolish you and you can't say anything because you can't defend yourself Erin Sheffield: Mm. Sarah Harding: because then that's a HIPAA violation. And Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Sarah Harding: it's just this weird like conundrum. You know what I mean? And truly, Erin Sheffield: Right. Sarah Harding: you know, when I was talking to my front desk gal yesterday, she was asking about treatment plans and this kind of thing. And I said, I'm super conservative. Like, if if there's something additional that we might do, I'll talk with the patient about that. But unless they're in my chair and they agree that they want to move forward with that, I will not put that on the treatment plan. Like my treatment plans are all gonna be pretty like straightforward, like not anything additional that they don't need. You know what I mean? And it's like I don't know how to convey that to patients that I am I and I say this like I'm not gonna do anything that I wouldn't do on my own children if that was who was in the chair. And like it's true. Because I still have to go home to myself at night. I still have to go and look in the mirror at night. I still have to take care of my Erin Sheffield: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sarah Harding: own children at night. And if I if I knew that somebody else was treating my children differently than they would treat their own, I wouldn't be able to I wouldn't handle it. I don't I wouldn't be able to Erin Sheffield: Mm-hmm. Sarah Harding: handle that, you know? And so I don't I don't know how I can convey that any better. You know, because I always feel like I'm trying to sell them and I'm not gonna sell you on a damn thing. I'm not. If you don't wanna do it and you don't wanna do it with me, then okay. You know, it's kinda like Brady Smith was talking about. Like you're gonna come back and you're gonna have more pain and more issues. And that's up to you, right? Erin Sheffield: Right. I remember in residency or maybe even dental school, you'd get patients who would be mad, and it seems like they're always Medicaid patients, and they would have like a three-dollar copay. And as a resident, I'm not getting paid on volume or production or collections or any of that. Sarah Harding: You're actually paying to be there. Erin Sheffield: Yeah, exactly. So I remember they'd be like, Sarah Harding: You're paying more to be there than they are. Erin Sheffield: I'd get mad they'd be like, Well, I'm taking my business elsewhere. And I'd just be like, Thank you. One less thing for me to do in this busy day. Like, but it's different when you're running a practice. Sarah Harding: Yeah. But it always hurt my soul. Erin Sheffield: I know. Yeah, Sarah Harding: You know? Erin Sheffield: I hear ya. So let's pivot a little bit. So again, we're kind of talking about something that was stimulated just from a lot of the online chatter that we've been seeing. And I had another friend who's a content creator, a dental content creator, Rochelle BB. If you don't follow her, give her a follow, because she's amazing. But she called me yesterday and was like, What is with dentists? Like, are dentists the biggest arguers around? She said, I don't post much content for dentists, almost all of it's patient-facing content, because I hate getting into it with dentists. Instead of just being able to Bring it up and, you know, debate and disagree. We have to like make it personal and nasty. And she was kind of bothered by some guy that kept leaving me multiple comments arguing on a post about something that wasn't really been super high yield for the post itself. She's so funny. So she like went and looked this guy up and she's like, People are dumb online. Like we can find you and your practice. And then she's like, I'm so petty that I went Twist page and then I just started leaving hearts and liking everything and leaving like supportive comments. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: So I thought that was hilarious that that was like her Sarah Harding: I love that. Erin Sheffield: her her way of kind of getting in the last word. But I think it brings up a good point. Like, do you think it's dentistry or is it just across the board? Because I've definitely seen it. You post something and it's just your opinion. It doesn't even have to be inflammatory and Man, and not only do people Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: start commenting and debating, but like the insults fly. Sarah Harding: Yeah. I've seen it on, you know, that app House or whatever, even on like Facebook groups where people are doing construction or home remodeling stuff. I've seen it on there too, where somebody will post something and somebody else is like, This is crap work, blah blah blah blah. Or they'll like go into a house and see, you know, things that aren't great and they'll be videoing it and And I think it's good to alert people of red flags, like if you're remodeling your home, like, hey, if you're seeing things like this in your remodeled home, like maybe ask a few questions. But the Erin Sheffield: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sarah Harding: but it's almost like it's again, it's that customer service industry, service industry competition as opposed to Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Sarah Harding: community. Like we can all build each other up or we can all tear each other down. And just like Who was it that we were talking to when we were saying, like, when you have it was Natalie Crawford again. When people are tearing you down online, two professionals, can you imagine how that patient or that other doctor is talking to their patients? Like, how can we Erin Sheffield: Right. Or how does that change the patient experience seeing your dentist on there like being a big arrogant jerk? Like I don't think Sarah Harding: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: people always think about that sort of thing. I and on the flip side, then I was getting people accusing me because I'm calling some of these people out. And like, how dare you speak about one of our colleagues in that way? And I I try to be careful. I don't like to call out people or to make judgments of their care or their practice. I try to be pretty open-minded, but when you're preying on patients, I'm happy to call out. But it's funny, there's not really an argument that they'll accept because it's always just you're closed-minded or you're the conspiracy of like big dental and how dental school just teaches you wrong and If you don't know this stuff, you're just uneducated or miseducated. So Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: you're not really changing opinions by arguing, but it's amazing how much arguing likes to happen in the comments. And Dennis Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Dennis love it. I think someone posted recently also Dr. Nick, I don't know if you follow him, but he made a video about like dentists hate each other. The way they talk to each other online is so mean and unsupportive. And I thought that was interesting and maybe kind of the same idea. I also think a lot of the stuff he posts is pretty rage baity. So he kind Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: of inflammatory kind of brings it on himself. But yeah, I wish I think it's hard enough to be a dentist. We get enough comments, we get enough hate, we get enough people that don't like us, don't trust us, think we're scammers, etc. It would be nice if we could have each other's backs a little bit more. I don't know. Sarah Harding: Yeah. I I think that the landscape has changed significantly. Because even I went to lunch with an oral surgeon here in town and he said, you know, things have changed so much since I started out. When I when I started there was just a couple oral surgeons in town and all of the people that referred to me were my buddies. And you know, we hung out and, you know, was friends with the other oral surgeons and you kinda knew the landscape and you knew what was going on with everybody and Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Sarah Harding: You know, if somebody was having a problem, others would rush to help and help cover the practice. And it was, you know, it was a very collegial landscape. And now I feel like we've gotten so because everybody feels like they have to be so busy all the time. And you have all of this staff that you have to pay and all of this fancy, expensive equipment, and you have to have the new thing that nobody else has. So you can't really talk about it, but you want to talk about it. But can't tell anybody else about it or teach them how to use it or tell them how it's benefiting your practice or how it could benefit their practice. Erin Sheffield: They'll be on to you, yeah. Sarah Harding: It is insane. It's insane. Erin Sheffield: I'm really of the mindset that if you're doing a good job, you'll always have enough patience and the competitiveness. Sarah Harding: There's always enough patience to go around. Erin Sheffield: And even if you're the best surgeon in town, there might just be someone that prefers the other guy. it's their best friend's uncle, or they have lavender infusing in the waiting room. You know, like there's so many different things Sarah Harding: Waiting room, right. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: and everyone appreciates different. approaches and there's someone for everyone. And so I think when we get threatened and upset by other people, it's just kind of silly. I think there's enough to go around. And if you're in a place that's that competitive, maybe you want to come somewhere like Quincy, Illinois, where you just Sarah Harding: Right. Erin Sheffield: hang your shingle and people show up 'cause they're just so grateful to have that access to care. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Yeah. But I think our desire to be liked is inhibiting our ability to be liked. Right. Because Erin Sheffield: a hundred percent. Sarah Harding: you know, it's counterintuitive and it is just not everybody's gonna like you. That's okay. Erin Sheffield: It's because people people pleasing isn't really about pleasing your s pleasing the people. It's about pleasing Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Erin Sheffield: your discomfort. And I had an episode with someone recently where they're one of the biggest people pleasers I know. And instead of just directly communicating with me, they just kind of stopped doing the job that that I expected them to be doing. And then it was like, well, I didn't wanna make you mad or something. But it's like, well, I would have much preferred you just say, hey, I'm kind of done doing this job at this date. Can you is that okay? And I would have said, Absolutely. But instead of letting everything fall by the wayside, that didn't please me. And it didn't please them either. It didn't get them the result they were wanting. and so I think it's funny how we kind of shoot ourselves in the foot. We're trying to please Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Erin Sheffield: everyone and we please no one. So Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: really being authentic to yourself and being willing to have Uncomfortable conversations that probably most of the time actually go just fine. Goes a long Sarah Harding: Yeah. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: way. But the funny the things that we do, the self sabotage, et cetera, all just so that we don't have to have that discomfort in our brain of what what might happen when we have the conversation. Sarah Harding: Yeah. I agree. Well, I feel like we've probably solved a few of the world's problems today. What do you think? Erin Sheffield: I mean, if people would listen to us more, the world would be a lot better place. So Sarah Harding: Okay. Erin Sheffield: like, share and follow. Sarah Harding: Yes. Yes. Erin Sheffield: Yeah, make sure you don't miss the next episode of the Resting Sit Face podcast because dropping all of the truth bombs, world solving solutions. Sarah Harding: Yeah. And you know, I'm actually really trying hard to get a holistic dentist on here because I really want to talk to them. You know what I mean? Because I don't think it's fair to sit here and and say all of the things that we say without having giving them a little bit of space to talk and having having actual good conversation Erin Sheffield: Sure. Sarah Harding: because I think that that's so viable. And people clearly are choosing them. and so Erin Sheffield: Clearly. Yeah. Sarah Harding: like I'd love to I love to learn from other people. I love to hear things, I love to even just chat, you know what I mean? And so we would love to Erin Sheffield: Yeah. So if anyone wants to come on, Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: well, I agree too. I mean, there are some things that I agree with what they're doing. I love the idea of systemic whole health care and dental care being part of that. Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Erin Sheffield: But but when you're taking it a little too far, I also I hope they believe it. I hope to my core that they really, really believe it. 'Cause if they believe it and they're selling it, then that's a different philosophy. But a lot of times it seems like it's a convenient thing to half believe and to sell to people. So yeah, it'd be interesting. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure there's a spectrum of it as well. I'm sure that there are some that, you know, are this like whole hog, like the whole shebang. And I'm sure that there are some that use ozone as an adjunct part of their traditional treatment. Erin Sheffield: Right. Sarah Harding: you know what I mean? And they don't use any amalgam and whatever else, right? Erin Sheffield: Right. Sarah Harding: but I think that there's a spectrum. And so I think it's it's n not necessarily a Totally true that they're all, you know, quacked out and Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Well, and I think how you present it is one thing too. Hey, we've got this ozone therapy. We don't have a lot of research behind it, but it seems like it's really working for our patients. It's one extra thing we can do to potentially improve your patient experience. I'm all for that kind of thing. Like it probably does help. Maybe it does, but when it's a fear tactic, if Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: you don't do this. This will happen, you know, unproven claims, that's where where I run into trouble on on those things. So I'm I think there's so much we don't know. There's so much research still to come out. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: But to position yourself as a preeminent leader, the only one that knows these things, everyone else is getting it wrong, when there's literally no Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: science to support it, that's where I run into an issue. And we and they could do better. So Sarah Harding: Yeah. Do better. Erin Sheffield: All right. Well, do better. All right. Well, I gotta run and get my kids to the regular dentist, not the holistic dentist. Sarah Harding: Yes. Erin Sheffield: We will be skipping all of the extra treatments and hopefully they're systemically prepared to get a couple fillings today. Thanks for joining us Sarah Harding: Yes. Hopefully not. Erin Sheffield: on this episode. And as always, like, follow, and share. And we'll catch you next time. Sarah Harding: See ya later. Erin Sheffield: Bye.