Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #143: Doug Edgar-Indiana Tech

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#143: Doug Edgar-Indiana Tech · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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Help me. Welcome.
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Today's guest, the wise, the wonderful mr.
0:56
Doug Edgar Doug, how are you? Sir, good.
0:59
Thanks for having me, Mike. You are the happy for you to be
1:02
here, man. This is pretty exciting.
1:04
We've actually been working on this one for a while, so I love
1:06
when, you know, it kind of feels better actually when it takes a
1:08
while to get it to get it, going to get a Oh, that feels like,
1:11
you know, the anticipation is built up and so I put a lot of
1:13
pressure that this is going to be awesome Doug, which means the
1:15
pressure is all on you. That's gonna be a tough one to
1:19
live up to. Well, I think we're going to
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see, you've been putting some pressure situations and you've
1:23
handled it. Quite fine.
1:24
So I'm excited about that. Doug, you serve as the are you
1:28
is your first official title director or head men and women's
1:31
track coach at Indiana Tech. Yeah, I'm the head track and
1:34
field coach at Indiana Tech. Yeah, it's interesting.
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Indiana Tech. I don't know that a lot of
1:39
people know this This. So I went to school at Illinois
1:42
Institute of Technology, so what we call ourselves, Illinois
1:45
tech. Right.
1:46
But I think, in every state, there is a Institute of
1:49
Technology, the most famous ones, of course, our Georgia
1:51
Tech and MIT which the they should be called Mass Tech.
1:55
By the way, I don't know why they go to these initials, but
1:57
Indiana Tech that the official name is Indiana Institute of
2:00
Technology, right? It is correct.
2:02
Yeah, and just for athletic purposes, we shorten that to
2:05
Indiana Tech, but yeah, our official designation is Indiana
2:08
Institute of Technology. That's cool.
2:10
So are you? Is that school, Illinois?
2:13
Tech. It's a lot of engineering.
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I would, you know, this is gonna be a shocker.
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I was a computer engineer for just for a year.
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I couldn't handle it. Is that what?
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Most of the majors kind of our Indiana Tech.
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That's what it the school started as was that was an
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engineering colleges, actually a Indiana engineering College when
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it first began but we've actually expanded.
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And so, honestly now on my roster, maybe about 20 percent
2:36
of my, my roster is in the engineering field.
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We've Got you know, criminal justice is a very big one for us
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psychology. We've got a growing exercise
2:45
science major as well and biology and so you know we've
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Diversified quite a bit when it comes to our offerings but
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definitely started primarily as an engineering college and how
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big is the school most of the schools that I know of that are
2:59
Illinois, tech. I think maybe we had 1,000
3:02
students. May be, what's Indiana Tech look
3:04
like? Yeah.
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So traditional undergrad were about 1500 on our, on our day
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campus and we have I do Right now, eight or nine, satellite
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campuses, kind of throughout the Midwest that are kind of geared
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more towards adult learning night learning continuing
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education. But on our traditional campus
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here about 1,500, let's go. Well, let's get into a man.
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Super excited to learn more about you and your journey and
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it's pretty exciting. I mean, you know, spoiler alert,
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this guy's won national titles. That's a pretty hard thing to
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do. So just really excited to learn
3:33
kind of your development and really the kind of a bit like
3:36
how we did with Sue Parks, like, broke down her formula for
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winning a title, and a conference level.
3:40
Ville kind of talk about how you built Indiana Tech up to being a
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big old Trophy winner because that's I think that's going to
3:45
be valuable for people listening today.
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So Doug, why don't we kind of I'm a comic book?
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I don't know. Are you a Marvel Cinematic?
3:52
Do you Spider-Man guy or anything?
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Yeah, I love, I love. I love betting anything in that
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Universe? They're my favorite part of
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those is the origin story, right?
4:00
We learned how Spider-Man got bit and that's how he turned his
4:02
Spider-Man. So this is kind of origin story
4:04
for you mammogram. Find out how super Doug became
4:06
super Doug here. Where does track and field start
4:09
for you. Where you have Age group kid
4:11
high school. Maybe you didn't do track at
4:13
all. Yeah I guess main compared to
4:16
most I spy a little late to track and field.
4:18
I didn't start until 5th grade and it was really just I was one
4:23
of the fast kids on the playground and the track coach
4:25
was like Hey you know you you're kind of fast out here recess and
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so came out and it was kind of my second sport I played soccer
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since I was super young you know 45 years old and kind of always
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thought that was my Sport and obviously I'm here in Indiana so
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so basketball every A kid plays basketball.
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And so I didn't really have, you know, that Spring sport when I
4:45
was growing up and just did soccer again or camps and
4:48
Clinics and then started with with fifth grade and saw a
4:51
little bit of success and then kind of kind of grew.
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And I think my goal every year was to they had like an award
4:57
for whoever was the best at the most events.
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And so I would run everything from the hundred to the mile and
5:03
you know, try to hide jump and long jump and that was my goal
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was I wanted to win that award. Every year, was you know who
5:08
could who could be the best across more events than Else.
5:10
That's a really cool award specially at a younger age and
5:14
encouraging people to try different events but that's
5:16
really cool. Instead of just the fastest kid
5:18
in the school or, you know, the MVP or whatnot, who's the best
5:22
over multiple of that? That's pretty cool.
5:24
We need more of that, in the Young Elementary and Middle
5:26
School, that's really cool man. We're so, as you're growing up
5:29
here, and you're doing soccer, and if you said you grew up in
5:32
Indiana, which I knew exactly, it was going to be basketball
5:34
because that's just in your blood for being an Indiana.
5:37
Where did you grow up? We know Indiana Tech is in Fort
5:39
Wayne. Did you grow up in the north
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Northeast Indiana? Yeah, I actually born and raised
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in Fort Wayne. So all the way through high
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school was here in Fort Wayne and then took a step away for a
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couple of years at Anderson University and then right, right
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back here to Fort Wayne. Now if we said this before we
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hit the record button. I did fifth grade in a little
6:00
town just east of Fort Wayne called would burn, but I knew of
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the Fort Wayne high schools which I mean there's some pretty
6:07
big and pretty good high schools.
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What high school did. Go to out there.
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Yeah so I actually went to Concordia Lutheran which is one
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of the the smaller high schools here in Fort Wayne.
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So not not one of the massive ones.
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We've got some two three, four thousand person, high schools.
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But we were about when I went there.
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I think there's about 800. I think they're probably around
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seven to 750. Now, I think.
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Yeah, I coached at Ball State for a couple years, I'm pretty
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sure for sure. I had to have recruited to some
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kids from Concordia Lutheran and I think I signed a kid or two if
6:35
you if you were there when Amber Williams was there, I was
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brought before her. But I 100% know Amber because
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she came in right after me and destroyed every record that I
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tried to put up there with our kids.
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That's for sure. She's a Concordia Lutheran girl,
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that's awesome. And I love her to death by the
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way. She is.
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She's awesome love her. That's so cool.
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So, tell me about high school, you said, you know, in
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elementary school, you were always trying to win the
6:59
all-around award if you will, which I still love that.
7:01
So cool, man, I really love that.
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Did you in high school continue that where you doing some
7:06
sprinting jumping in throwing or did you kind of focus in on
7:08
certain events? Yeah, as I moved on to high
7:13
school, I started out as a sprinter, you know about 7th,
7:15
8th grade. I realized you know that all
7:17
around award was good but you know high jumping 56 or 57 for
7:20
my school is good but that doesn't that doesn't do a lot of
7:23
good at the high school level and so I started as a short
7:26
Sprinter 100-200 Concordia was actually the state champion.
7:31
I'm here in Indiana, my eighth grade year and so they are, I
7:36
don't know if anyone's past it to now, but kind of in this
7:38
last, you know, 20, 30 years, we have a one class system.
7:41
In Indiana at the state level and so they are if they're not
7:44
the smallest, they're one of the smallest teams to win the state
7:48
championship. And so they won that my 8th
7:50
grade year. And then I moved into high
7:52
school and they had, I think about 90% of that roster was
7:55
back. And so there were, there were
7:56
very high expectations of that of that group, and I was kind of
8:01
coming in as a freshman. And, you know, you always think
8:03
you're big stuff and, you know, you're, you know, I was the
8:05
best, you know, one of the best kids in the city, but, you know,
8:07
I'm coming to a team that had defending state champ in the
8:10
hundred, you know, And you know 400 you know State title
8:13
Contender. And so I got kind of a big
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break. We had some kind of small
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injuries and Northside relays used to be a very big meat here
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and here in Fort Wayne and I got thrown onto the Sprint medley.
8:25
They put me on the 200 leg. I had, you know, two guys from
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the state champion for by one, you know, leading it off.
8:31
You know, we do 1124 here in the Midwest.
8:34
So, so those to let off gave me great position and I was handing
8:38
off to the guy that would end up winning the State title in the
8:41
Under that year. So I think we still have the
8:43
Sprint medley record at Concordia, but yeah, I kind of
8:46
stepped into a team that was really, really good and got some
8:50
experience. I ended up kind of being the
8:51
fifth guy on the four by one. So got to go to state, but
8:55
didn't get a compete at state but was able to get enough
8:59
Varsity point to get that letter jacket freshman year there.
9:02
So that was kind of my big like felt good.
9:05
You know, I was I was, I made, you know freshman soccer but
9:07
didn't make Varsity soccer. But then had that opportunity to
9:10
be my first varsity Sport in high school was track.
9:12
I love the Indiana, single class system.
9:16
I mean, I have understanding of like, why Texas has six or seven
9:20
or however many they have I grew up in ran high school track and
9:23
Alabama and we had, when I was there, we had six classes and I
9:26
think they're up to seven now. And that was about four too many
9:30
classes. Illinois used to be a one big
9:33
school. Small school.
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I like that but I like that. Just put everybody together and
9:39
let's just run. Let's see who We got a hundred
9:41
kids in your school or 10,000. Let's win it.
9:45
So when you come into your freshman year and you're coming,
9:48
you're joining a state championship team, they returned
9:51
90%, you know, some kids could feel almost.
9:55
They would almost shirk that like oh man who like I maybe I
9:59
shouldn't join the team like they're too good for me.
10:02
Others could be kind of the opposite and like oh yeah I'll
10:05
show those guy. I'm the, I'm the all-around
10:06
champ, I the way boys, we going to show you what a real athlete
10:09
is. Did you?
10:11
You you member kind of like your attitude of join that team of
10:13
like, was it more of like, okay, I get to be around other fast
10:17
kids. So hopefully, I'll get faster
10:19
and contribute or was it a shirking?
10:21
What was kind of your attitude as an athlete that freshman year
10:25
joining that really good team? Yeah, I think early on it was
10:29
incredibly intimidating. Like I said, I mean, we, you
10:31
know, I mean these are, these are guys that are the best in
10:33
the state that are there on that team.
10:34
A couple of them are in the Indiana Hall of Fame.
10:36
Now, for high school athletes and so I think it took until I
10:41
started winning some of the, you know, the JV Reserve level meats
10:44
and some of those varsity guys are like I like you know, he
10:47
might be one of the guys, you know, he's not, you know, there
10:49
yet. But I think a lot of our
10:51
upperclassmen than kind of started to, you know, see that?
10:54
Oh, you know, I think once they see your good, they kind of
10:55
quality in and they bring you in and they say, all right.
10:57
Well, you know, now you know you did that before.
10:59
So now you got to do some of these things with us and you
11:02
start changing the way you warm up.
11:03
And, you know, they put you through some extra things.
11:05
And so I think I was lucky in that, you know, our school is
11:08
small and some of those upperclassmen did Just back into
11:11
me and say you know hey you know you could really be something
11:14
good and you can help us you know right now and so I was able
11:17
to like I said get some varsity experience you know I got to run
11:20
a couple relays here and there got to go to a meat called the
11:24
max Truex Invitational at Warsaw where they combine to people's
11:27
performances for every event so you run two Heats of the hundred
11:30
and you know, they basically add your times together and that's
11:32
how you win the hundred. And so we had we had an injury
11:35
and so I got to run the hundred was it was a guy that was an
11:38
All-State hundred Runners my partner.
11:39
So obviously, Meat like that you don't you don't want to let that
11:42
guy down, let alone the whole team.
11:44
And so some unique experiences like that kind of gave me that
11:48
chance to kind of dip my foot into the varsity pool but I
11:51
didn't have to come in and be the guy by any means.
11:54
I was one of the guys but I was I was at the back of the guy
11:57
group. That's an interesting track
11:59
meet, adding the times together because I reminded about like
12:02
relays, you know, some of us as coaches have had that kid who
12:06
you know, just doesn't do that well on the open but put them or
12:09
her in a relay. And they come alive and I always
12:12
thought it's, well, it's because they're running for someone else
12:14
not themselves anymore. It's like, I have that.
12:15
I've got the team Name Across My Jersey.
12:17
I need to represent the other three people.
12:20
This is something similar to that.
12:22
You're like you weren't just some B-Team Hunter M guide that
12:25
race. You were like, oh no, my time
12:26
counts. And it's with our a guys I need
12:29
you. I don't want to be embarrassed.
12:30
You embarrassed him? I need to step up so you
12:33
probably ran one of your better times.
12:34
That that M did that point in your career?
12:37
Well the ironic part is, I was filling in the state champion,
12:40
had the, had the Jerry. And so I had to run in the
12:42
plastique with all the adult, the fast, the fastest of the
12:45
guys, I hopefully, maybe a block that in my memory.
12:48
I don't know what place I got. My time was okay, we ended up
12:52
winning 100 between the two of us, I think for the day but
12:55
yeah, I got put with the big dogs and so it was it was
12:57
definitely trial by fire, you know, when you when you get
13:01
thrown out there and it's the a heat and you you haven't been
13:04
running a varsity Heats. I don't like here.
13:06
You like this is a heat. I'm not sure I'm the a runner
13:09
but here I am. Mmm.
13:11
You know, you have hindsight now you've gone through college
13:14
running and college coaching and a high level.
13:17
When you think back to your coaches through you, I assume
13:20
you States printing all the way through what talk to us about
13:24
the coaches. You had in the style of
13:26
training, not the X's and O's, you know, we don't get into
13:28
that. But what was your influence from
13:31
your coaching staff there as a high schooler?
13:34
Yeah, my freshman year, we had, we had Coach Ken and I was
13:38
actually his only year at Concordia me transition to end
13:40
up coaching. At Carroll High School which is
13:42
one of those, you know, three or four thousand person high
13:45
schools. And after he left, Brad Peterson
13:48
took over as kind of my event coach.
13:50
Lance Hoffman was. Our was our head coach at the
13:52
time. And they were both teachers in
13:55
the building and kind of took me and a little bit different
13:58
direction. I started to progress a little
14:00
bit longer and my running. And so, as a freshman, I was
14:04
kind of hundred 200 oriented as I moved to sophomore, I became
14:07
more 200 and 400 oriented started to run our teams. 4x4 a
14:11
little bit more. And then eventually as I moved
14:14
older and even into my junior year, I then also ran in the 4x8
14:18
relay. And so my my senior year at both
14:22
sectionals and regionals, I ran all three relays for our team.
14:25
So I ran 4 by 1 4, by 4, 4 by 8, and kind of that one day
14:29
setting. And so, you know, maybe a
14:31
product of this of the small school set up but, you know, I
14:35
felt like my my best asset when I was in high school was just
14:38
that I was going to work. You know, I came from A lot of
14:41
guys before me that were just very hard-nosed, very hard
14:44
working there at Concordia and Brad was definitely a coach that
14:47
was going to put a lot of work in like we did.
14:50
You know, we were, I would say a higher volume program, you know,
14:54
then what I had done the year before and obviously it paid
14:57
great dividends for me I really developed into being a 400 guy,
15:02
but I was always, you know, you mentioned it.
15:04
I was just always a real, a guy I loved the any, any aspect of a
15:07
relay I think 90% of the for bye.
15:11
It's Iran on. I threw up after it was it was
15:13
definitely maybe a little long from what I thought I could do
15:16
but I got pushed to that level and we had some really strong
15:19
relays and I had a lot of fun moving up and doing those
15:23
events. And honestly, I really grew to
15:25
love. Probably the 400 I would say was
15:26
my passion but didn't mind running on the 4x8.
15:30
The open eight was a different story but but but a 4x8 relay
15:33
was a good time you know it's a good thing.
15:35
High schools only for years. If it was five or six you might
15:37
have been running the mile and the two-mile by the time it was
15:39
all done man. I'm glad you just had Years and
15:42
kind of find your niche in there.
15:43
That's a good. So, as you enter senior year,
15:47
what are you thinking for school?
15:49
Are you thinking you can run on the next level or what's kind of
15:52
going through your mind on that? Yeah, I mean I think I'd start
15:57
and, you know, the the letter start to come in and obviously,
16:00
you know, they're kind of the general letter that everybody
16:01
gets. But then my head coach, like, I
16:03
mentioned Brad was really good about kind of, you know, calling
16:06
around to different schools and kind of getting my name out
16:08
there a little bit, you know, definitely.
16:11
I only knew I wanted to stay in the midwest, it was and so I had
16:14
looked really hard at that time Ball.
16:15
State still still had a men's program they were they were
16:18
probably my biggest desire of just cut from a location
16:22
standpoint. It was getting out of Fort Wayne
16:24
but it was, you know, still a really good program.
16:26
You know, division, one program University of Indianapolis.
16:30
When coach Giles was, there was that was another program that I
16:33
spoke to quite a bit and then honestly PFW here in town,
16:36
Purdue Fort Wayne back. Then, it was Indiana.
16:38
Purdue Fort Wayne, they still had a men's.
16:41
Ram at that point. And well, so kind of a rough
16:44
year for men's programs in Indiana, as I'm a senior in high
16:46
school Ball State drops, their men's program, which was where I
16:50
was most likely headed PFW drops her men's program and so I'm, I
16:54
stopped getting the letters the call stop coming.
16:56
They'll let her stop coming and you just wonder, well, what
16:59
happened? And and so that's what kind of
17:00
led me to start Mary. Be returning some of those other
17:03
phone calls that I had been ignoring that.
17:06
Now, as a coach, you get a little upset about but, you
17:08
know, you understand maybe at the high school level.
17:11
And Anderson is a school that had called me, probably, almost
17:14
every week. Coach Scott worry was the, was
17:17
the Sprint coach at the time and he probably called me know,
17:19
every week every other week and honestly, I was had my heart set
17:23
on Ball State and thought, that's what I was going to go.
17:25
And so, you know, you kind of blow them off and say, yeah,
17:27
I'll take a visit and well, maybe next week and kind of busy
17:30
this week and, you know, eventually ended up taking my
17:33
visit to Anderson and they had phenomenal facilities.
17:36
They had just built that endure. The, that was there at the time
17:38
and Coach Maddox, was the head coach and had it The success.
17:41
And a lot of those athletes that were at Ball.
17:44
State are you know, at P FW had started to transition over to
17:48
that to that roster at Anderson University.
17:50
And so I met with a guy named Mike Harris on my visit and he
17:54
was probably one of the most influential people and me going
17:56
to Anderson kind of brought me in showed me, you know what they
17:59
did there. What it could be ate lunch with
18:01
me and and so that kind of really sold me on the program.
18:05
What your did you actually take an official visit to Ball State?
18:09
So I did not take an official Visit.
18:11
They had, I think they cut the 03, was my senior year of high
18:14
school. And so they had, I think it was
18:16
about January, they had, you know, sent me letters in the
18:18
mail. They all right.
18:19
Well, you know, I think I'm gonna put some stuff up here
18:21
during and track season, but, you know, I once I have those
18:24
marks but Brad actually went to Ball State.
18:27
And so I think he had some conversations and just as we
18:29
were hopeful, you know, it's probably on the edge of what
18:32
could help them at program, but even at a walk-on situation, I
18:35
think I could could have come in and hopefully been an asset.
18:38
Well, yeah. So I think the timing because
18:41
Even though I worked on the women's side, O2 and O3 you, I
18:45
men's head coach at the time. Jim Sprecher is now the head
18:47
coach at Lynchburg was a great friend of mine.
18:51
So like almost every recruit, specially Sprints, and hurdles
18:53
recruit. I still met all the men.
18:55
Like you probably know. Matt Connelly.
18:57
Yeah yeah yeah. So like Matt was a freshman at
19:00
our team you know he's a thrower and the guy I still you know
19:02
knew him. So I was when I was like man did
19:04
we cross paths and months ago that would've been pretty funny
19:06
there so you end up going to Anderson sounds like Mark here.
19:11
Mr. Marcus Harris was a big influence on you, go in there.
19:14
What were you thinking academically?
19:15
And what were you thinking? Like career-wise, you know, back
19:18
when I was a senior, I still thought I was gonna be like a
19:19
firefighter or an astronaut. But what were you thinking,
19:22
going into study and and becoming a professional?
19:25
Yeah, I went to Anderson thinking I was going to major in
19:28
biology education. Yeah.
19:30
Pick teacher school, right? Yeah.
19:31
Yeah. Yeah.
19:32
Great great. Great education program and I
19:34
thought, yeah, you know, I I've done you know, environmental
19:36
science. I'd done some of these science
19:38
classes like I think I want to do this and I realized about
19:41
week to that biology was not me. I was the only person and my
19:46
class that was not pre-med, and I'm starting to add up dollar
19:50
signs. We're doing the same undergrad
19:52
and your salary is going to have an extra zero behind it.
19:54
And this is this is going to be a rough.
19:57
Go of it for me, you know, I was spending two, three, four hours
20:00
a night in the lab just and it just did not click my, my brain
20:04
did not work in that biology realm.
20:06
I kind of limped through that that freshman year my I was
20:11
eligible. I didn't I didn't miss any track
20:13
meets. I it wasn't my.
20:14
You know what wasn't a stellar GPA?
20:17
I was kind of that. Middle straight, c c minus t
20:19
plus kind of an everything but I survived and ended up changing
20:23
my major to social studies, education had always been
20:27
interested in history to a degree and and kind of delved
20:31
into that path and really felt like it was the right fit for
20:34
me. Once I got into it I can I think
20:37
my hidden talent is that I can just bang out long papers like I
20:41
Sit down and knock out a 20 or 30-page paper.
20:43
And when you're a history major, that's it's all about, you know,
20:45
research putting it on papers. And so I think that's one of my
20:50
abilities that really delved me into that that side of thing.
20:53
So I feel like that does not help you as a coach for some
20:56
reason. Yeah.
20:57
So this is a coach without a 30-page.
20:59
Paper was like look man I'm not reading that can you give me
21:01
like the two sentence syllabus on this thing.
21:03
Yeah maybe that's the problem with my team itineraries.
21:06
I'm Hannah packet every week and and say and there's a lot of
21:09
info. We need to know here guys.
21:10
I'll give you every bit of information.
21:12
So so at that point you're still thinking, teaching, was coaching
21:17
in your mind at all. Or was it more just teaching?
21:19
And like, oh, maybe I'll become a coach.
21:21
Maybe I'll also coach, but it was teacher first.
21:24
Yeah, I mean, I think going into high school like I said, I
21:27
always thought soccer would be my path.
21:29
Like that was my better sport, you know, really through
21:31
probably my sophomore year of high school.
21:34
I would just thought I knew more about it.
21:36
Like if I'm if I'm gonna coach with teaching it'll you know,
21:38
it'll probably be, you know, to high school, you coach multiple
21:40
Sports. But I think I'll coach you know
21:42
soccer you know, maybe maybe do track if that's available but
21:46
that's going on the back burner there.
21:48
Yeah, yeah, a little bit. So after my freshman year, I
21:51
finished my freshman year and and all of my coaches were still
21:54
at Concordia. And so obviously College, you
21:56
get out a little bit before high school gets out and so they
21:58
allowed me to come back and kind of help with the 400 group, you
22:02
know, run some of the workouts, you know, they kind of had
22:04
everything planned but they're like, you know, hey, we would,
22:06
you know, love the help, love to help timing.
22:08
And, and so, I was back just in time for the essay.
22:10
ACC conference track meet there and so that was kind of
22:13
probably, you know, maybe that's your lightbulb moment.
22:16
Like, you know, I got to see a meat that I had a lot of success
22:19
at that. I really enjoyed.
22:20
That's incredibly competitive here in Fort Wayne.
22:22
And you know, you get to see athletes.
22:24
Either have success or not have success with training that you
22:27
gave them, you know, for a couple of weeks.
22:28
And so that was kind of really my first coaching moment there
22:31
was after that freshman year was the, you know, we talked about
22:34
Spider-Man in the spider bite, right?
22:36
Was that the moment it hit you or was it still like, okay,
22:40
yeah, okay, good. Soccer.
22:42
And now I'll least know what I'm doing.
22:43
Coaching track, even though the track runner at that point, or
22:45
did it like like it was it like this?
22:47
Aha. Oh my gosh, this is what I was
22:50
put on Earth for. Yeah, I don't know if it really,
22:53
I wouldn't say that's the moment.
22:54
It sank in for me, you know, I did it.
22:56
I enjoyed it. I liked giving back, you know,
22:58
as a runner I felt like I was always like the guy that coaches
23:01
would yell out for getting too excited for other people.
23:03
Like you know I'm jump up and down for the to my lawyer while
23:06
you know, the 4x4 is going on and they're like hey you know,
23:08
save your energy like you've got to run in 10 minutes like you
23:11
know and so I've just always been really passionate about you
23:13
know other people's be ours and getting things that level.
23:15
So I think I saw that value in it but I ended up not coaching
23:19
again after my sophomore year just the way my, you know, job
23:21
and song. Murr internship set up, kind of
23:24
went, and then after my sophomore year, I decided not to
23:28
run track anymore for Anderson University coach Maddox who was
23:32
their longtime coach, he retired.
23:34
After my freshman year I stayed on one more year kind of had you
23:39
know just probably the worst year of my career at any level
23:41
lots of injuries and it just I kind of really at that point
23:44
kind of lost my love of track and field a little bit after
23:48
after that sophomore year. So kind of got away from it.
23:51
Going into The summer actually went out for the soccer team as
23:54
the junior in college. I didn't play my first two years
23:58
made the soccer team there to Anderson University but had the
24:01
opportunity then through a connection Derek leininger to
24:06
coach track and field. He knew a coach at a school
24:09
called Muncie South, which you know muncie's about.
24:11
Obviously, you know, 30 minutes there from Anderson and coach,
24:14
Kelly Leach was looking for an assistant.
24:16
He's kind of a distance guy. And, and I had really revamped
24:19
this cool and Derek's like, hey, you know, I know I know you kind
24:22
of talked about coaching and don't know if you're still
24:24
interested but you kind of connected me with with Coach
24:27
Leach and went and interviewed and he you know he gave me the
24:30
opportunity I don't know what he saw and but he gave me kind of
24:34
that chance and so that kind of got me back into track and field
24:37
and I would say those those three years that I spent at
24:40
Muncie South or kind of you know that spider bite moment.
24:43
You mentioned that really gave me that enthusiasm for coaching
24:48
track and field. Specifically I love that you No,
24:52
I'm really made me picture. And we're gonna talk about this
24:56
later about Twitter specifically, but I'm a big
24:59
Twitter guy writes on a big social media guy, and I know
25:03
you're on there too. Like, so we're going to talk
25:04
about the role, social media plays of their coaching staff,
25:06
and recruiting things like that. But I'm always when you were
25:10
talking about that. I'm picturing that that picture
25:12
of. Like, there's two like guys
25:14
riding a bike, right? And one of them says this is
25:15
what you think your career or you know, you're running career
25:19
looks like and it's just a straight up, you know, from the
25:21
bottom. To the top and it's like, oh
25:22
there's no Hills. No.
25:24
And then reality is there's dips and doopsy.
25:27
Dues and setbacks, I fully expected you to tell me, you had
25:30
an amazing college career and someone like a coach Maddox who
25:34
I know coach Maddox dearly loved him and his wife, you know,
25:39
coach Maddox was, you know what, there the whole time and was
25:41
such a huge influence and I wanted to be like coach Maddox
25:44
and that's why I got into coaching.
25:45
But instead here's this dips and Dives and setbacks, you have a
25:49
sophomore year where you're injured a lot, you kind of lose.
25:51
Lose any love that. You had four track and you step
25:54
away from go back to one of your original loves soccer.
25:57
I love that. You'd still kept at it though.
25:58
Wasn't like, okay. I'll just be a student and you
26:00
know, go to Penny beer nights and stuff like that.
26:03
I love that. And then the opportunity to
26:05
coach came up again, you're like I let me, let's try it.
26:08
And I assume this is where the story continues the now go up.
26:11
That's like, that's so inspiring doug because there's plenty of
26:15
athletes out there right now that want to be coaches.
26:18
And they think it is going to be linear like, oh, He had because
26:22
I go to XYZ school or because I'm this talented because I know
26:26
this coach I'm going to be I'm going to be you know, the head
26:31
coach at Texas A&M next year and there's other people that get
26:34
injured or for one reason or another can't run in their teams
26:38
and they think I can never do it.
26:40
Like I can't be a track coach. I didn't even finish my high
26:43
school career or my college career and your story, as we're
26:47
going to continue to play it out here, shows that there's, I
26:50
don't want to call it. Things that sounds like like you
26:53
did some bad or something, you know saying but but like there
26:55
is like there is hope no matter what your starting looks like,
26:58
one of the start, looks like you still got to go run the race and
27:01
that race can still be awesome. That's so I love this, man.
27:04
I'm super excited about this. So, tell me about Muncie South.
27:06
I know Muncie, South really well because I was at Ball State for
27:08
two years. So I know all those Muncie,
27:10
Central's and South, and there's some just good kind of down to
27:14
there with coaches in that area. Man, that just really care about
27:16
track. What did you coach sprinters
27:19
there? And how did that go?
27:21
Yeah, so basically I we had Kelly check I said was the head
27:25
coach and he had kind of really gotten the distant side going.
27:28
So Muncie South not known for track and field.
27:30
They hadn't won a sectional and I probably say this wrong, but
27:34
it was at least 40 years, you know, it was 40.
27:36
Plus, you know, Central was, was the team, you know, they want
27:39
around there. Yeah, Jay County.
27:41
You know, Anderson both the Anderson Highland and Anderson.
27:44
And it's, you know, Muncie South was not a track program.
27:47
One on one coaching leech got there or a distance programming.
27:50
He had really revamped the distance side, the things and
27:53
basically said he needed someone to come in and do Sprints, and
27:55
hurdles, and kind of work with that group.
27:57
And so the year before I took over, I think he had 12 total
28:01
athletes on the, on the track team and that it was mostly his
28:04
distance. But you know, 89 distance
28:06
Runners and there were really two to three sprinters.
28:07
So I'm thinking, you know, I'll help.
28:10
But I mean if it's three kids, you know, what do you what am I
28:12
doing here? What am I going to do?
28:14
And but he was just, you know, he's that prototypical like in
28:18
the hallway. Like, hey, you do what you do a
28:20
sport. Come to my sport to like and he,
28:23
you know, he was a teacher in the building and so he really
28:24
just kind of got everybody out and so our goal was just like,
28:28
let's get the athletes out. Like, that's trying to make this
28:30
enjoyable. Let's let's get a group out.
28:32
And and so I think that first year we ended up with about 40
28:34
athletes and and really the, the big thing at Muncie, South was
28:38
just the eligibility side of things.
28:40
So, you know, some schools had, you know, past five or whatever,
28:44
you know, whatever the rule is about Muncie, South also had a
28:47
2.0 rule so you can do Sports unless you had a A point O.
28:51
And so a lot of athletes, you know, we're used to pass five or
28:54
whatever the case may be. And so, you know, our big thing
28:57
every day as we did, we did a 45 to an hour study hall, before
29:00
practice started every day. Like, just, we got to make sure
29:03
we got some athletes out. Finally, you know, we need to
29:06
make sure all these all these athletes are eligible and so
29:08
that first year, you know, we had one or two, you know, solid
29:12
athletes and you know, that we went from getting dead last at
29:14
the sectional meet, I want to say third or fourth and and then
29:19
Coach Leach asked me if I wanted Come out going to help with the
29:21
cross-country group, the next year and just kind of you know
29:24
be an extra person and and help out and you know that year he
29:27
led the cross-country team to a sectional Championship which
29:30
they hadn't won one and cross and I don't know if they'd ever
29:32
11 it at that point and that kind of led into our track
29:35
season. We had a team of over 60, I
29:37
think we hadn't 72-73 athletes that second year.
29:41
Really got a lot of the got the football coach on board which is
29:44
anybody who's ever coached High School knows you you need the
29:47
football coach on your side here in Indiana, your big battle is
29:50
is getting the AAU kids to come out that played basketball and
29:54
then they age out of AA you their senior year.
29:56
So I ended up with some some really good high jumpers that
29:59
came out and work with me and then we had a young man that
30:02
transferred in from Richmond, High School that was just a
30:05
world beater. I mean, this is a kid that went
30:07
out first into our meat and he saw a high jump bar and never
30:10
done it before. Still ahead on Timberlands and
30:12
cleared 66 like just messing around like he's I bet I could
30:15
clear that and and so he was a very good athlete you know and
30:18
once you start to get a couple of those transformational
30:20
Fleets. It really helps sell it to some
30:23
of the some of the football guys and everything.
30:25
And so that year we ended up winning the sectional title took
30:28
some athletes to the to the regional meet.
30:32
We unfortunately had to athletes get in a three wheeler accident
30:36
the week, the week of regionals. And so, at that point, I had had
30:40
a 4x2 that was all state during the indoor season.
30:43
I kind of helped get some indoor athletes going and we had a four
30:47
by one that I think we were ranked, you know, 7th or 8th in
30:49
the state. Ang into the regional meet both
30:53
of those guys didn't run. We ended up getting, you know,
30:55
fourth or fifth Missin, Missin state by a spot or two but it's
31:00
just really a transformational experience.
31:01
You know, I think the the city was really invested the school
31:04
was great to work with they threw a parade for the for the
31:08
athletes. You know.
31:09
They let them let them, you know, go in the the parade and
31:12
month's monthly South is known for their marching band.
31:14
I don't know if you knew that from your time at Muncie but so
31:17
a lot of our athletes were kind of double dipping.
31:18
They'd always been in the parade but now they gotta Ride in the
31:21
cars and kind of get some love from the city.
31:23
So those three years we're great, you know, and I think
31:26
that really transformed my idea of what a track and field coach
31:30
could do and could be man, healthy things grow.
31:34
There's nothing that excites me more than hearing about a school
31:36
that has 10 athletes. And within one to three years,
31:40
they're 60 athletes, that's always good.
31:43
Even if not a single one of them goes on to run College that's
31:46
not the that's a product of high school team that's not the goal.
31:50
All of the high school team. It's getting these kids out and
31:53
doing an activity first and foremost second.
31:55
All love of track and field. A lot of the Russians say a lot,
31:58
some of those kids are going to go on to become coaches their
32:00
own even if they don't compete on the college level.
32:03
So that is. So that's cool man, healthy
32:05
things grow. So I love hearing growth
32:07
specifically in our sport of track and field.
32:10
You said this was kind of your as your how many years were yet
32:13
muncie's health. So I was there for three years
32:16
so it took me five years to get the undergrad degree.
32:19
I know you got it done. No.
32:20
My brother just me. No judgment.
32:23
What you said, this was kind of your and those three years as
32:27
you're growing from, you know, 10 total kids with Coach all the
32:29
way up to you know 60 and I prayed a love uplifting track
32:33
kids that's awesome. And this became kind of your aha
32:36
moment. Like, oh, okay.
32:39
This is what I want to do. Were you doing and you're still
32:42
an undergrad so for sure, maybe no, was the answer here.
32:46
Are you doing any kind of coaching education at this
32:49
point? Even to the point of maybe
32:50
going? To the Indiana track clinic, or
32:51
anything like that, or is it still kind of your coaching how
32:54
you were coached? Well, the one thing that's
32:57
unique about interesting is they actually offer to track and
32:59
field class. There we go.
33:02
There, we thought that for a long time.
33:03
Yeah, Larry. And then Scott Wilson and Coach
33:05
worry, who is my friend coach? They actually were the
33:07
instructors. And so you essentially are doing
33:10
level 1, instruction. And but then it's learned by
33:13
doing so, you know, we would learn about the javelin and then
33:15
we go over and they let us throw the javelin, you know?
33:17
And so it's honestly probably the best wish you could have
33:20
ever done. On my true love level 1 and we
33:22
actually had to take a test. I don't think it was it wasn't
33:25
the usatf test, I don't believe but we did.
33:27
We had like a test that we got certified in at the end of that
33:30
semester. So I believe that would have
33:32
been my junior year that I took that class.
33:35
And and so that kind of at least kind of gave me the basics.
33:37
But definitely was very geared towards what worked for me in
33:41
high school. Like I said, I didn't have what
33:44
I felt like was was the best college career based on what I
33:48
did in high school. I had a good freshman year I
33:49
was, you know, I'll come Conference and, you know, did
33:51
some things, but then that sophomore year really took that
33:54
nosedive. And so I kind of went back to
33:56
the higher volume, you know, I was a, you know, he was always,
33:59
our coach was a kind of a Clyde hard at Baylor, you know, that
34:02
that packet that everyone looks at, you know, the repeat to
34:05
hundreds the, you know, the three hundreds of the the cut
34:08
downs and I always valued the work and I just, I loved like
34:12
that part of practice. Like you tell me I got 2,200
34:14
that 31 great. That's that's my day.
34:17
You know, I saw more joy from that workout than ever compete.
34:21
Which is, which is kind of a, you know, we should place to be
34:23
as an athlete completely weird. Yeah, I was gonna say that, but
34:25
you said it cause I was like, that's weird dog.
34:28
Not many people right now, we're going.
34:29
Yeah. Me too, every else is like, oh,
34:30
you crazy man, let me do a 401, I'm good.
34:33
Yeah, you know and so I think that's kind of where I was but
34:37
then I learned that that it must be South.
34:39
You know, you can't keep tell those kids do 20 by 200 when
34:42
they've never done track a day in their life, you know?
34:44
And so, you know, I'm out there trying to modify it and, you
34:47
know, and ironically it got closer to the Program that I did
34:51
at Anderson. And what I did at high school
34:53
mostly just from trying to get those kids to enjoy that Sport
34:57
and see some value in it. Yeah, I say, I like how you
35:00
realize that though. So a lot of coaches, especially
35:03
as they get now, you're young and your coaching career at that
35:05
point, but as we get later on, in our age and stage of
35:08
coaching, we have our way like we've done a lot of coaching
35:11
education, a lot of trial and error.
35:13
A lot of mentorship things like that and we kind of have our way
35:16
and the good ones still learn and you know, tweak at that
35:18
point but you have your system right.
35:20
And sometimes, those coaches will go to a different program.
35:25
Well, this is how I do it. So this is what I'm going to do
35:27
without any regard to the other aspects of your program.
35:30
Whether it's a brand new program is that is the training age zero
35:34
for? 90% of the kids, is it a
35:36
high-level bit like a Concordia? Lutheran did you come in that
35:39
freshman year? It's like, yeah, that I'm taking
35:40
over a team that just won State. Okay, they're probably a little
35:43
bit more advanced, maybe I can throw more Adam etcetera.
35:45
So I like how you had that self-awareness of like okay I
35:49
think this is how I My style of coaching, but that won't work
35:53
right now. I'll have zero on the T.
35:55
I'll go from 10 20 real real quick here.
35:58
So I like that, you had that that self-awareness.
36:00
I bet that plays into your story as we continue out.
36:02
There's usually themes that run amongst people's Journeys.
36:05
I like that. So what do you do?
36:08
How do you take this? You do three years of Muncie,
36:09
South. How do you take?
36:10
What's the next step? You're a track coach now.
36:13
So, what's next? Yeah.
36:15
And so is that the decline in your name that I mentioned, he
36:18
was the he was the head coach at Schneider.
36:20
At the time. And so I had had some
36:22
preliminary conversations like, you know, if I get a teaching
36:24
job in Fort Wayne, you know, what would that look like at the
36:28
same time, this this program at Indiana Tech is firing up and
36:33
the initial head coach at Indiana Tech is Brad Peterson,
36:36
who was my high school coach? And so, he and his father, Barry
36:40
Petersen, who was long time Northrop coach here in Fort
36:43
Wayne basically start a from scratch program at Indiana Tech.
36:47
So, that's happening as I'm a senior, you know, my second
36:50
senior year, Here at Anderson, that's that programs kind of
36:53
getting up and running and doing its thing.
36:54
And and so you know, same thing, you know, Brad's like, hey if
36:57
you can find your way back to Fort Wayne, would love to have
37:00
you be part of the program. This is kind of where we're at.
37:02
And so I'm kind of having both these conversations at the, at
37:05
the same time. Obviously you're always thinking
37:07
in the back of your head, man, like college would be awesome.
37:09
Like that's that's just a different level.
37:11
Like I've coached high school and I would love it, you know.
37:13
Snyder was a great program and I ran against him and so I ended
37:16
up I interviewed all you know all over.
37:17
I was you know it's at that time it was a really tough.
37:21
Teaching Market to break into and ended up getting hired on as
37:25
a social studies teacher at Norwell high school.
37:28
And so that's about 30 to 35 minutes away from Indiana Tech's
37:32
campus and basically sat down with Brad and say, Hey, you
37:34
know, this is kind of my schedule.
37:36
I could beat a campus by 3:45 every day, is that something you
37:39
can work with and he's like, yeah you know we you know we
37:42
actually have an opening working with Sprint's, we have somebody
37:44
that's kind of covering hurdle somebody that kind of has
37:46
everything else but basically I got to work alongside him on.
37:50
On the Sprint side of things. And so I think part of me
37:53
getting hired at Norwell was that I was supposed to coach a
37:55
bunch of sports and then I pivoted real quick and I don't
37:59
think that didn't make me a lot of friends in the athletic
38:02
department. When I was like, well sorry, I
38:04
can't coach, you know, soccer and track.
38:06
And some of these things that maybe were part of helping me,
38:09
get that job. Yeah, I was going to ask, why
38:11
didn't you coach the high school?
38:12
Was it more of working with Brad?
38:14
You know, your former coach? Or is it more of like oh I get
38:17
my college shot. I didn't know if I was going to
38:18
have, you didn't sound like I was kind of in your goal set of
38:23
like I want to coach college but it was like, oh, here's the
38:25
opportunity to do it. So sorry guys.
38:28
I've gotta go do this. Is that more?
38:31
Yeah, I mean, I think that was this really it, it was, you
38:32
know, I know, you know, I guess maybe you're naive at the time
38:35
but you're like, man, I don't think everyone just gets to jump
38:38
into college, you know? And so I was like, well, this
38:40
this might be my only shot to try this and maybe you do it for
38:43
a year or two and you don't like it or you're not good at it.
38:45
But at least you can say, you made that at that at that
38:47
attempt. And and I didn't know Oh, if I
38:50
was going to stay in Fort Wayne forever if I was going to move.
38:53
And so maybe this was my my one attempt to really move into
38:56
Collegiate coaching and have that opportunity was.
38:59
So did your first position at Indiana Tech?
39:01
Start, it was at a volunteer, coaching position, or did you
39:03
get a stipend? I got a little stipend, I got
39:07
paid. So that was, that was nice and
39:09
and so that was, I was a part-time coach and basically
39:12
was, you know, they're two to three hours a day and then I
39:16
used every bit of PTO I could get to go to some of those away
39:19
meats and You know a lot of Friday's I would you know okay
39:23
well I'm going to leave half day and the team may go down to IU
39:26
or you know after Grand Valley State or something like that and
39:29
me and my wife would just get in the car and we would drive and
39:32
get up there you know and use a half day at work but it was
39:35
definitely something that I was doing everything I could to make
39:38
that that part-time position work and see what would happen
39:41
with it. Tell me your wife is a track
39:44
person as well and you're not just dragging some poor.
39:48
No, not at all huh? No my wife.
39:50
Softball and soccer. We're her true passions and and
39:54
so her love of track is had to grow with us and so she got
39:59
trial by fire you know she did it while we were at Muncie South
40:02
we met actually and you know you talk about that winding journey,
40:05
I wife went to Ball State. I was supposed to go to Ball
40:08
State. You know, we've talked often
40:10
talked, you know, we may not have ever connected.
40:12
If we had met each other as freshmen or sophomores in
40:15
college, we may not have been the right fit at that point.
40:17
So we met during that junior year when I started, Jen and
40:21
Muncie. And so it was kind of that
40:23
overall positive experience, you know, you find your wife, you
40:26
find your passion for coaching, you know?
40:28
And so those, those long Journeys, they like you said,
40:30
they're not, they're not linear but but but they're definitely
40:33
enjoyable moments along the way another self-awareness Mark
40:37
there doug because a lot of people think about that, that
40:42
example, you gave their of my wife, went to Ball State.
40:43
I was supposed to go to Ball State, man, which out of went to
40:46
Ball State out of met her earlier.
40:47
We'd be this much longer in our relationship.
40:50
It's like oh you forget about the opposite, the opposite could
40:52
be true. You could have never met here or
40:55
you guys could have dated and because of your maturity levels
40:57
that point the hated each, you know, would not have worked out
41:00
and you go and find someone else and she finds someone else and
41:02
you're in 100% different life right now.
41:05
So I love that stuff there. Another like said self-awareness
41:07
there where you're like yeah I'm kind of glad that it worked out
41:10
exactly how it was supposed to. I met her at a different stage
41:12
of my life and and she must be so patient if she's now on the
41:16
track bandwagon. Thank you so much for what sir
41:21
Samantha Samantha. Yeah.
41:22
Okay, I did was I know she's listening right now so I did not
41:25
want to miss Samantha's name and corrects it.
41:27
Samantha. God bless you.
41:28
You must be unbelievably patient cause I know now you must be
41:32
your track 24/7. You can't help it being married.
41:34
This guy, get it. I get it.
41:36
You poor poor soul sometimes. So you're at Indiana Tech.
41:41
Now, I think, is your here at Indiana Tech as a part-time
41:45
coach? You don't go anywhere else.
41:46
Our story is word, Indiana Tech from then till today.
41:49
Is that correct? Right yet.
41:51
No, no. Other stops in between.
41:53
So give us. How did you go from part-time?
41:56
Sprint's coach to the head coach, what's the, the kind of
42:01
become full-time assistant, and then whatever.
42:03
You know, just tell us how that that panned out.
42:05
Yeah. So I spend that first year there
42:08
and everything's works works out.
42:10
Well, my opinion and we have some success where a new
42:13
program. Again, we wrote, this is only
42:14
the second year that Indiana Tech has restarted that program.
42:17
And so we start to see some athletes, you know, score some
42:19
points at That, you know, I think we're starting to be at
42:22
least one of those teams people talk about at the national meet,
42:24
you know, we're not by any means, you know, we're not in
42:27
the top 20, but we have a couple athletes that at least people
42:29
know, we're at the meet, you know, it's always nice when
42:32
people at least see a couple jerseys there.
42:33
So, ironically after that year, nor well cut eight position.
42:38
So they had a reduction in Force at the end of the year.
42:41
I'm, you know, last last guy ends first guy out when it comes
42:44
to teaching education. And so, I lose that position at
42:48
nor well I end up Ali Just substitute teaching at Fort
42:52
Wayne Community Schools because I'm I'm in at this point.
42:54
I'm in on the coaching side of things, I really decided that
42:58
that's the path that, you know, I eventually would like to coach
43:01
full-time and and so I'm like, all right.
43:02
Well, you know, I've got to continue to make this work.
43:04
We've got a good team. We've got a great recruiting
43:06
class like I think, you know, I can really make a name for
43:08
myself here. Eventually kind of move into a
43:12
semi full time role of Fort Wayne Community doing some like
43:14
parent, involvement data collection, and things like
43:17
that. So that made things a little bit
43:18
easier than just getting on the online.
43:20
Every morning and see him what school I was going to be at.
43:23
But ironically halfway through that year, my head coach he
43:27
leaves. So he's no longer with Indiana
43:29
Tech and we bring in a new set of head coaches.
43:33
So I'm still the assistant a couple of the assistants day.
43:35
A couple of the assistants decided to go.
43:38
But I, you know, I stay with the program and kind of write it out
43:43
there for, for, for that year, with, with the new set of new
43:47
set of coaches, and then that second gear, that, that same Out
43:50
of coaches are there as well teams about 25 30, athletes lots
43:55
of turnover from just kind of the coaching change and
43:57
everything and and basically that year and a half, it's a lot
44:00
of these are the athletes that I'm starting to recruit.
44:02
You know, I'm supposed to be doing this other job from home,
44:05
a community. And hopefully, I'm past the
44:07
statute of limitations, but I'm sending a lot of recruiting
44:10
emails at this time. I mean, I'm I'm doing 100
44:12
mailings a day. Like I just, I had it in my head
44:15
that, you know, this is where that kind of grind mentality is
44:17
got a, got a come from and I need to, I need to get athletes.
44:20
You know, I Have good athletes and it's the same things that we
44:22
did at Muncie South, you got to have numbers, you know, and so
44:25
it starts with numbers and so, you know, me and my wife are
44:27
sitting in our living room at night.
44:29
You know, putting mailers together, we're doing it at my
44:31
actual job, that's paying the bills, but it just kind of kind
44:35
of grew. And so I had some success in
44:37
that that first recruiting class and at the end of what would
44:41
have been my second eat, full years and assistant.
44:43
They're basically the the coaches that were in place where
44:47
we're contract was not renewed and they That's a director just
44:51
came and said, hey, you know, I've talked a lot of the
44:53
athletes and, and, and they feel like you would be the right fit
44:56
is, is this something you would be interested in doing?
44:58
And obviously you're, you know, you're blown away.
45:00
Like you like, yeah. Like I want to be a head coach
45:03
and so that kind of then took that pivot then to now finally
45:06
getting to do that full time. So let's pause right there.
45:10
Go back to recruiting recruiting is an interesting activity that
45:15
you really don't know what it's about until you were in it.
45:18
How was that? Because we're Being obviously
45:21
plays a big part in what you and your staff, does it, Indiana
45:23
Tech probably back then. And even now as you moved on to
45:28
continue to grow the team and grow, the definitely everybody
45:31
knows that Indiana Tech is at the national meet now, okay?
45:33
That's the way, it's very fair to say, we see orange everywhere
45:36
there. Right?
45:37
What was your first reaction to recruiting?
45:40
How did you like it? It seemed like you.
45:42
It seems like you like took to it pretty quickly.
45:45
Like okay, this is a think you used the word grind like a grind
45:48
metallic? I've got to just, it's got a
45:50
drip. It's got to keep going and but
45:51
it's got to go all the time. What was recruiting to you at
45:54
first? And how is that grown till today
45:57
to today? Yeah, I think I just have to
45:59
give credit to EA Sports. I mean, NCAA college football
46:03
line to sign all those guys. I mean that was that was every
46:05
year, you know, you know, you gotta grind on on on college
46:09
football like I need the five stars.
46:10
Like I'm trying to turn Ball State into a power and and move
46:13
them into the big pain, you know?
46:15
And so I think that's that's where that started.
46:17
It's weird. But I mean like every day, you
46:20
know, The sound of the letters. You got to make the calls, like,
46:22
it's weird. So you know, yay Sports.
46:24
I think they hopefully they bring the game back.
46:26
I might lose some hours. I might finally get my wife to
46:28
get me a new system. But, but yeah, I mean I think I
46:32
just had it in my head that it was just about.
46:34
You just gotta send the information, you know, and I
46:36
think early on it was just trying to figure out like, how
46:39
do you get this information to the athlete?
46:41
So I don't think I really understood that part of it
46:44
really well of like, you know, I know this kid is good but like,
46:46
how do I like, how do I get in touch with that athlete?
46:48
Like I don't know, I see the name.
46:50
But so I just kind of started sending everything to the school
46:52
and said, hey, at least at least I think they'll get it, you
46:55
know? And then I started hitting every
46:57
recruiting website I could find information on and then I just
47:00
started calling and people didn't really text very much but
47:07
Advanced. It was literally just calls
47:09
emails and letters and I was just doing it.
47:11
Probably five paid some strong dividends with some of those
47:13
athletes that I was able to make connections with and in sign in
47:16
that first recruiting class. You know, I think the hardest
47:19
part for me was like I mentioned we had all that change over with
47:22
the head coach and so I never really had the opportunity to
47:26
really learn that from anyone, you know, like I said, the first
47:28
coach leaves we have an interim coach for a couple of months and
47:30
then we have a new set of coaches.
47:32
And and so, there was, you know, everyone was kind of treeoche, I
47:35
think, you know, with new program interim.
47:37
And then a new coach was only there for a, you know, about a
47:39
year and a half. And so it was just kind of trial
47:41
by fire and everything. I did, I never really had
47:44
someone say, Hey, you know, this is how you recruit.
47:46
Like this is, this is, these are the best ways.
47:48
Here's how to get a hold of people.
47:49
And and so I just I never had that.
47:52
So that's all I've ever known is just let's work.
47:55
You mentioned not a lot of people texting wasn't as popular
47:58
as it is today. Social media wasn't what it is
48:00
today, so he has a lot of letter writing phone calling prayer.
48:04
Like please let this person for if see this letter We're just
48:07
going to fill up my question there.
48:09
Did you on the recruiting side? Don't, we're going to get into
48:11
the head coach inside you in a second.
48:14
You talked about, you know, no one was there to sit you down
48:16
and say, hey, here's how we recruit our.
48:17
Here's how I recruit and take that now and do your style, but
48:22
were you reaching out to any other coaches at this point?
48:24
Now, you know, you're, you're fully a college coach where
48:27
their people at other schools or former athletes that were maybe
48:30
coaching at that point that you would, you know, bounce ideas
48:34
off at all? Are you still kind of like, I'm
48:36
just trying to figure Out of my own world at this point.
48:39
Yeah, probably to a fault. I was asked by a little
48:41
insulated, you know, I think I just kind of said, hey, I'm
48:44
going to figure out how to tackle this, you know, I had
48:46
some conversations Rod Waters at the time.
48:48
He started as an assistant with me and then moved on to be a
48:51
head coach at Troy University and so I think rods a person, I
48:54
would bounce, a lot of training, ideas off of.
48:56
But I but I think I just kind of had it in my head that this is
49:00
going to be the way I'm going to do it.
49:01
And and, you know, maybe to a fault.
49:03
I didn't ask enough people early.
49:06
Like, is there a better way? Way.
49:07
Like, do I, I need to sit in my living room with my wife for
49:09
four hours while we're watching TV, just dropping everything and
49:12
envelopes and, and go into the pot, you know, to the Indiana
49:15
Tech, post office, the next day with with three hundred, three
49:18
hundred packets to send out, you know.
49:19
And so I think I maybe wasn't as efficient as I could have been
49:23
early on but it it seemed to me that work was going to equal
49:27
results, you know. And and maybe over the years
49:30
I've hopefully gotten a little bit better, a little bit smarter
49:32
about how I use my time but early on it, it just was like,
49:35
well if I put in 30 hours I'm gonna get Athletes.
49:37
Like, that's just how I thought about everything.
49:40
Now, I'm fascinated when an assistant coach, especially an
49:43
assistant coach is not like you an assistant coach for 10 20
49:46
years and you know, you had a lot of experience, a pretty
49:49
inexperienced assistant coach. At this point.
49:51
Is that fair at this point? I'm always fascinated when that
49:55
type of Coach becomes a head coach because it doesn't matter
49:58
what the size of the program, doesn't matter what level high
50:01
school, middle school college in Eid 3 does not matter.
50:06
It's It's different, you have different responsibilities, you
50:10
have different expectations, you have a much more closer
50:13
connection to your Administration.
50:14
Your Administration actually says.
50:16
Hey, so how are you doing? X, Y, and Z.
50:17
When you're an assistant, ministration hardly ever talks
50:19
to you that head coach talks to you, when you got the head
50:23
coaching position, where you ready?
50:27
No, not even close. No, I spreadsheets receipts.
50:33
You know, all the stuff that has nothing, you know.
50:35
You think, you know, like you said, you think you're like all
50:37
right. Well I've coached some athletes
50:39
I had a head to all Americans last year, like I'm 100% ready
50:43
and then that first day you're just looking around.
50:44
Like I got 30 things to do and none of them involved track and
50:47
field coaching. What?
50:48
And, and I've never had anyone show me how to even you use any
50:52
of these, spreadsheets, or software, or these things.
50:55
And so a lot of it. Yeah, you're 100.
50:57
No one. No one is ready.
50:58
If you haven't done it, I would that's the first step.
51:01
I would tell everyone you're not ready, doesn't matter what you
51:03
think. You're not ready, yet?
51:04
What was as you look back now, you know, one of the things we
51:07
have now up as we've been in a position for 5 10. 15 years is
51:10
we have perspective, right? We can look back and like, oh
51:12
man, I wish I would have done this differently or hey, thank
51:14
goodness. I fell into this or what not,
51:17
what was his people out there that are assistant coaches?
51:19
Now, we're even rookie head coaches that are trying to
51:22
figure this out. No one sits down.
51:23
There is no class called head coach of track and field.
51:27
It just doesn't exist, maybe we should us tfcc and it sounds
51:29
right up our alley with the academy there.
51:31
But what did you struggle with the most I think I think trying
51:38
to balance it all and still have connections with your athletes.
51:41
I think that's probably the hard part because it's really easy to
51:43
go sit in your office and say, listen I got 56 hours of work to
51:46
do, I'm shutting my door like today's the day and so my
51:49
initial office was it was we nicknamed it, the fish bowl
51:52
because it was glass on all sides, it was in the back of the
51:55
wellness center. So when the kids came to do
51:56
they're lifting like I'm there like there's no doubt of Coach
51:59
Edgar's in the office or not, you know, and I think it's that
52:02
balance of I got to get stuff done because I don't want to do
52:05
all this when I get home tonight.
52:06
But at the same time like if you have an athlete that needs you
52:10
and needs to have that conversation or needs to have
52:12
that personal moment, whether it's, you know, class personal
52:14
life, whatever the case is that initial balance, because it's
52:18
really easy to get caught up in the weeds of, you know, receipts
52:21
and spreadsheets and discount rates and whatever your school,
52:24
you know, budgets that your school values.
52:26
And, and forget that, at the end of the day, this is a human
52:28
profession. And it's the point of doing this
52:31
is breathing, you know, things into your young athletes and
52:34
helping them along, you know, a tough Journey.
52:36
Ernie that I'm not that far removed from it that point in
52:39
time. That's a really good point in
52:41
both sides, right? Meaning for sure when you become
52:44
a head coach and you start, learning all these budget
52:46
meetings and scheduling things like that, it could be very easy
52:49
to spend 90% of our time without because you always have
52:51
something to do so to spend 90% of time there and reduce
52:55
coaching and interaction with the athletes to a minimal,
52:58
right. The other side of its true to
53:00
sometimes there's assistant coaches that want to be a head
53:03
coach, but they think they can still do 90% of the the Human
53:06
side of it that I love how you put that in only 10 percent of
53:10
the in office time and I don't think you can be successful.
53:13
I'm not sure. There are many ministration
53:15
registrations wouldn't allow that as well.
53:16
Sometimes assistant coaches are need to be assistant coaches and
53:19
that's not a negative. It's just, it's where your
53:22
strengths are. So I love that you brought that
53:25
up, like, hey, it's The Balancing Act.
53:27
I think, is how you put it of I have to take care of my humans,
53:30
my team. But there's Administration work
53:32
that I am also responsible for how many years have you been the
53:36
head coach? Now, Now at Indiana Tech.
53:37
So this will be your number 12 for me.
53:40
So as you are finding your way trying to figure out the fish
53:43
bowl but also Excel and all that kind of fun stuff.
53:46
When do you think you feel like you kind of hit your stride in
53:49
those 12 years was it kind of immediate near to or maybe
53:53
you're still like you know what my eye flounder.
53:55
Your 12 I guess it open up Excel.
53:58
Yeah I mean there's there's still days weird.
54:00
Look at that to do list and you're not checking very many
54:02
numbers off. So I don't know if you ever get
54:04
longer. Yeah, you always keep adding,
54:06
you know, I think it we just put a lot of emphasis with the first
54:09
couple of steps that I had. Like I said on continuing, that
54:12
kind of lets get the numbers up. So when I took over the team,
54:15
including cross-country, we had less than 40 athletes.
54:17
At that point, I was just so much change over, you know, a
54:20
lot of athletes transferred out. They just weren't, you know,
54:22
happy with the situation. And so most of the athletes were
54:24
left, were ones that I had actively recruited, you know.
54:27
And so that, that was kind of a nice start.
54:29
But we brought in, I think almost 50 athletes that first
54:32
year and then initial recruiting class it was like 47 to 50 and
54:35
it was just kind of that same idea of Like we gotta grow this
54:37
thing, you know? And so I think those first two
54:40
to three years were really just about about growth, you know?
54:43
And I wanted to make sure that we were always a track team.
54:47
You know, I think now obviously I see you know, some programs
54:50
kind of focused on jumps or throws or pole vault, you know,
54:52
whatever, whatever they're kind of and kind of Niche is and
54:54
whether that's facilities coaches, you know, scholarship
54:58
setup, but I've always just wanted to be a track team.
55:01
You know, I wanted to have throwers and pole vaulters and
55:03
sprinters and I've just always gotten that joy out of tracking.
55:06
Like I said, when I was an athlete, I would be yelling at
55:09
my throwers on my team and our hurdlers.
55:11
And so, I've always wanted to build my program that way.
55:14
And so, I think it took us a couple of years to really get to
55:17
that point because obviously, we were very Sprints hurdles heavy
55:20
at that early stage because that's what I was recruiting and
55:22
spending the bulk of my time doing.
55:24
But luckily, that first season, our women were in a position
55:27
where they were kind of already a little bit ahead of our men
55:29
and since I had been kind of coaching and recruiting that
55:32
group, for about two years, we had won.
55:34
The conference title are my first year as a head coach.
55:36
Coach. And so you're kind of all right.
55:37
Well, you know, like this is, you know, this is kind of a
55:39
notch in the belt or maybe I won't get fired after year one.
55:42
Like I'm not completely terrible at this, you know.
55:44
And so, you know, the boys were maybe two or three years behind
55:48
us, but it probably wasn't till, you know, 2012, 13 14, when we
55:53
were starting to really, you know, do things as a team.
55:55
I think kind of the first. I feel like I belong here, was
55:58
2012. Our women got six that the
56:02
indoor Championship is as a team and, you know, you just kind of
56:05
feel like, at that time, you know, You still got some some
56:07
very heavy hitting programs, you know, Azusa Pacific Oklahoma,
56:10
Baptist Wayland Baptist, you've got, you've got programs that
56:14
I've watched just kick our butts for the last three or four years
56:17
and now I can finally say, you know, like, Hey, we're we're not
56:20
there yet but we're one of those teams not where we're in the top
56:22
10 and and so I think that was probably my first like, okay.
56:25
Like I think I can really do this and really be a team here
56:29
at Indiana Tech. Now this is fascinating, because
56:33
you're talking about the conference Championship wins.
56:36
You have now. How many national titles is your
56:39
team's one? So we won 14 national titles
56:43
national titles. That's a few more than I
56:45
thought. Holy cow.
56:47
Okay so 14 national titles I see over your left shoulder I'm very
56:51
familiar with that wheel that's a Penn relays wheel which means
56:53
that a relay team did well at that great meat you talked about
56:58
your high school career you by your senior year, you run the 4
57:01
by 1 4 by 24 by 8. So team type.
57:04
Where does that come from? That's a different man.
57:06
Because as the head coach, so you have all the power, right?
57:09
So you have a lot meant of scholarships.
57:12
You could be like, hey, I'm the Sprints and hurdles coach 80%.
57:17
We're going to look good because I'm gonna recruit the best and
57:18
give them all the best scholarships.
57:19
And we're going to win this on a Sprints and hurdles team because
57:22
it's relased you'd be justified. There's plenty of teams out
57:25
there that are doing that, right?
57:26
And then, you know, if we can get one good thrower, one good
57:28
jumper or whatever, you know, grapes that will help my team.
57:32
Be Sprinter heard. They're dominated, right?
57:35
Where does that team? Mmmmmm.
57:37
First mentality, I mean that's the theme throughout this whole
57:39
thing is team first for you. You brought up right up when you
57:44
talk about Cancun or Concordia Lutheran.
57:45
The first thing you said is, yeah, yeah, they won the team
57:47
title. You didn't you talk a little bit
57:49
about that leads but you didn't talk about, like, a certain stud
57:52
athlete who, you know, went to Indiana University or something,
57:55
you've been talking team this whole way through.
57:58
Where's that come from? Yeah, I think it's just always I
58:04
don't know, I've always been wanting to be invested in you
58:06
know everyone around us and I saw the value in that, you know,
58:09
I think, you know, maybe you know we talked a little bit
58:12
about my soccer career, you know, I was I was kind of, that
58:15
was what I thought was going to be my path and my freshman year,
58:18
we were an amazing fruit. We call a freshman team.
58:20
You know, we're all freshmen and we went on defeated and beat up
58:23
beat a team here for a week called Canterbury.
58:24
Which is, you know, they're the program for soccer and Indiana.
58:27
And that was, that was a big thing.
58:28
And then my sophomore year, I was part of a Nominal team that
58:31
won a sectional title and I was kind of on that that ascent and
58:35
and we change coaches. And and I kind of got, you know,
58:38
I was a guy that scored nine or ten goals as a sophomore and
58:41
then wasn't even getting playing time.
58:42
Is a junior, you know? And so I think maybe that's
58:45
where I started to process like, hey, like I don't really like
58:47
how we're setting up our team ideas here.
58:50
So, maybe it's a negative thing that the that kind of led me
58:53
into really focusing on team. And I just didn't, I never felt
58:56
like it was the best setup for our group and we didn't have as
58:59
much success. On the soccer side of things,
59:01
after we kind of change, you know, some of those those models
59:04
there early on. So but even, you know, early on
59:07
at Indiana Tech. You know, I saw you know, Brad
59:10
start a program and he while he was more distance oriented that
59:13
was kind of his Focus. He was bringing in sprinters, he
59:15
had really good throwers, he had two really good pole vaulters.
59:18
And so I think that side of it seen like, hey, like you got to
59:22
be a team to do well in college track and field, you know.
59:25
And so I think maybe just seeing some glimpses of it here and
59:28
there but I like it. I like all the events.
59:30
So I, you know, as I got to grow and track and field more, I've
59:34
really grown an appreciation for things I could never do you
59:37
know, watching somebody throw the hammer is just in a just an
59:39
amazing accomplishment. Like I couldn't get a stud to an
59:42
Olympic level but I love watching, you know, people
59:45
compete at that level watching somebody running all out 10K or
59:47
even a, even a marathon has become a real passion for me.
59:51
Yeah, so you lost me there, I love 5K steeple.
59:55
The hammer is one of my all time I used to go, when I coach, I'd
59:59
always go to practice early to watch the There was there.
1:00:01
Just one of the most fascinating events out there.
1:00:04
Now you've mentioned and talked about recruiting a lot, however,
1:00:07
to build a team from less than 40 people on the entire team to
1:00:12
14 national titles, something else has to be a play, what do
1:00:17
you test to a winning culture? A team winning culture, that's
1:00:22
winning the big trophy. What else is that?
1:00:25
That people can learn from what you've built there?
1:00:27
That's not recruiting. You can recruit the best kids
1:00:29
Nation, still, not when the The title.
1:00:31
So there has to be more. Yeah I mean I think along with
1:00:34
your creating you have to recruit the right athletes.
1:00:37
You know I think early on we saw at least I saw, you know, I
1:00:41
think it was just kind of a talent.
1:00:42
Grab like you said, let's get all the best kids in here and
1:00:45
then we'll just shake it up and hope that, you know, end result
1:00:47
is a championship. Well, that doesn't work.
1:00:49
You've got to look a lot at personalities and so I think as
1:00:52
we recruited and as I would bring in those part-time
1:00:54
assistance that were doing the same things that that I was, you
1:00:57
know, doing the previous years, it was a lot of talking about,
1:01:00
okay? Does this person mix with who we
1:01:02
already have on the roster? And are they going to be the
1:01:04
right fit or is their personality gonna, you know, you
1:01:07
can have one or two personality conflicts that you can coach,
1:01:10
but of everybody and, you know, it was just a whole, you know,
1:01:12
whole collection of people struggling in that side of it.
1:01:14
So I think that's part of it. And then I, like I said, I never
1:01:18
felt like I had all the answers. And I think our staff has always
1:01:21
been that way that we're not like, well, you know, this has
1:01:24
to work for everyone. You know, I think from the time
1:01:26
from what worked for me in high school, did not work for my
1:01:28
athletes, that monthly South, I came to Indiana Tech and Kind of
1:01:31
got closer to what worked for me in high school.
1:01:33
But that was because my high school coach was coaching at
1:01:36
Indiana Tech and I was like, well, is this work?
1:01:38
You know, he knows what he's doing and, and we had some
1:01:40
success, but then I kind of started to create my own path,
1:01:42
but I never felt like I knew exactly what I was doing.
1:01:45
I think you're always kind of swimming and you're like, okay
1:01:47
well, you know, will this work for this person but it didn't
1:01:49
work for them. So how do I get them to that
1:01:51
level? And I think trying to hire
1:01:53
assistant coaches that had that same passion and had those same
1:01:56
ideas that it doesn't have to be done.
1:01:58
One way was incredibly helpful and so I've had some Awesome
1:02:01
assistant coaches over the year that have gone way above and
1:02:04
beyond, you know, what you would ask of assistant coaches.
1:02:06
You know, people that have traveled over an hour just to be
1:02:08
on our staff, you know, everyday back and forth, you know, people
1:02:11
that had, you know, 40 50 60, an hour a week jobs and so you
1:02:15
can't do it by yourself. It doesn't, it doesn't matter
1:02:16
how good you are, how much you think you can grind.
1:02:19
But but I think that side of it has really been helpful for me
1:02:22
to have those people that shared that Vision, but also brought
1:02:25
their own ideas and unique experiences to our team has, the
1:02:29
what has the you waiting for? Teen Titans that's a I mean come
1:02:33
on man. That's amazing.
1:02:33
That's you don't have that many fingers.
1:02:36
What growth has come from it have you as the school supported
1:02:40
you in more coaching like a more coaching staff and better
1:02:43
support and coaching staff. Professional development
1:02:46
opportunities? How has that helped?
1:02:48
How is that your success on the track?
1:02:50
Helped the program grow? Well yeah, I mean I think early
1:02:55
on we had no facility. So in Indiana Tech started the
1:02:57
program. It was there was no outdoor.
1:02:59
We were just going to use Ever track, we could find in Fort
1:03:02
Wayne which there's a lot of them but and then indoor we had
1:03:05
a like poured, poly urethane rubber about an inch thick
1:03:08
around our basketball court. It was 142 meters.
1:03:11
If you went off to the side, either way, you're on cement.
1:03:14
So if you're wearing spikes, I mean you were feeding the are
1:03:16
done. We could get maybe two hurdles
1:03:19
in there, maybe. And then you were crashing into
1:03:21
the wall. And so we, I think that led me
1:03:24
to always have to be creative, you know?
1:03:25
Like we had a very old weight room when it started.
1:03:28
Like we just facilities were not, we weren't Telling anybody
1:03:31
on facilities we were selling them on.
1:03:33
We're gonna hustle, we're going to give you everything we can.
1:03:35
We're going to be creative and I think that state and at least my
1:03:38
coaching model all the way up to today.
1:03:40
Like there's got to be a better way to do this because we just
1:03:43
we had nothing, you know? And so the school did support
1:03:45
us, you know, we went from that poured polyurethane to a Mondo
1:03:48
track then kind of around. So it's still 142 but at least
1:03:51
it's track surface and and then we ended up moving into a place
1:03:55
here in Fort Wayne called the the Plex South which is an old
1:03:58
golf dome. And so it's kind of a collapsed
1:04:00
are dumb. But it's, you know, it's a
1:04:01
full-size soccer field under one Dome.
1:04:03
And so every day we had to go out there and lay comes out to
1:04:06
set up our tracks, we could get about 250 to 280 meters
1:04:09
depending on how you want to delay.
1:04:11
The turns course was never the same day.
1:04:13
Today, we were using benches as plyo boxes.
1:04:16
We were landing on high jump mats.
1:04:18
Like we had nothing, you know, and so when we won our first
1:04:21
team title in 2013, we were in that same setup.
1:04:24
We did not have our own track, and I'll just never forget an
1:04:27
athlete. That was like, I just overheard
1:04:29
a conversation like, Man, Indiana Tech just won a national
1:04:32
title was no track. Like we have no excuses and you
1:04:34
know, and I've always, you know, said that to our current teams.
1:04:37
Now, you know, I think it's, it's hard to appreciate, you
1:04:40
know, they weren't there and those old days and you know, in
1:04:42
the Gulf Dome that was 20 or 30 degrees in the middle of winter
1:04:45
with, you know, a 250 Loop that I laid down that was probably
1:04:48
all over the place with cones. You know, you really learn to
1:04:52
try some new things and be aggressive and try those out.
1:04:54
So the school has helped us immensely.
1:04:56
We have an outdoor complex of our own.
1:04:59
We moved into a facility. Here in Fort Wayne called the
1:05:01
Turnstone Center. That's been an amazing partner.
1:05:04
They have been awesome to work with and then we've just
1:05:07
announced a groundbreaking of our own indoor track that will
1:05:10
that will be available next December and so the school was
1:05:14
that an awesome job putting us in a position facility wise as
1:05:18
we've grown the team and had some success, that's a great
1:05:21
segue because that's exactly where I was going.
1:05:22
Doug I appreciate that because so you're building a new indoor
1:05:25
facility which is first of all again healthy things grow.
1:05:28
So I love that the Cool. Saw you having success with very
1:05:33
little meeting facilities and coaching staff and budget.
1:05:36
Probably even at that time, is changed to it is today and
1:05:39
didn't just sit on its Laurels. We like, well, what do you need
1:05:42
an indoor facility for you just won the title.
1:05:44
You don't need a facility but they continue to invest in you
1:05:47
and you've rewarded the school with many, many more titles,
1:05:51
right? And now you're building your own
1:05:53
indoor facility. And one of the things that
1:05:56
fascinates me about this Doug, this might be the only reason I
1:05:59
asked you to be on the podcast. My Is along with announcing this
1:06:03
new awesome indoor facility. They are going to name the
1:06:07
facility the Doug Edgar indoor track Emporium or something,
1:06:12
right? So I'm fascinated by this
1:06:14
because certainly plenty of amazing coaches of had
1:06:18
facilities named after them, right?
1:06:20
I think of Tennessee's track and Florida's track.
1:06:23
They're all named after former amazing Team Championship when
1:06:27
he coaches Clyde heart, the Clyde heart track complex.
1:06:31
But almost every one of them that I know of anyway had those
1:06:34
names for them as they were in their late stage of their
1:06:37
career, or if not after their career, and sometimes in their
1:06:42
life, right? You are extremely young.
1:06:45
I love talking to Young coaches at your age because some of them
1:06:49
think that they need to have their life.
1:06:51
Figured out at this point. I'm like, you know, think about
1:06:53
this. You're 37.
1:06:54
You've been coaching for. I don't know what 15 ish years.
1:06:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it could. 15 years.
1:07:01
You're 37. You're going to easily coach to
1:07:04
your 67. Let's be fair here.
1:07:06
You've got at least two more lifetimes ahead of you coaching
1:07:09
wise, like you are barely at the starting line, my friend, right?
1:07:14
And yet you're going to have a building named after you.
1:07:17
Now, I know my own ego and he goes not a bad.
1:07:21
We've talked about ego extensively in the past here.
1:07:23
On the podcast, egos not a bad thing.
1:07:26
It can be a bad thing, but ego actually, that's what helps
1:07:30
drive safe. Elf worth and self motivation
1:07:32
and you know, competition and tenacity.
1:07:34
So he goes not bad. We all have ego and we all start
1:07:37
out with good ego, but I would have to think me personally, if
1:07:41
I walk into a building every day, called the Mike Cunningham
1:07:44
complex, There's a there's a bit of me that believes I might sit
1:07:49
on my Laurels a little bit. That there's a like ego, like
1:07:52
anybody wants to check me out just like you go check the name
1:07:54
of the building. You know I'm saying how have you
1:07:57
thought about is any of this new to you?
1:07:59
If you like I hadn't thought about this at all?
1:08:01
Or have you thought about this at all about how you internally
1:08:04
can still operate at a high level?
1:08:06
In a very grinding hustling, mentality on a day-to-day basis?
1:08:10
When you're going to have a palace named after you, my
1:08:13
friend was going to be clean. I'll tell you that.
1:08:16
What what? Definitely take care of it but I
1:08:18
agree with that. No, you know, I think it's it's
1:08:22
hard to wrap your head around until it's real, you know?
1:08:24
I think that's, you know, we're still in the, you know, the
1:08:26
groundwork level and and those situations.
1:08:29
And to me it's while obviously, I there, they've decided to make
1:08:33
the addition to put my name on it.
1:08:36
It's not me. That is created that building.
1:08:39
And might, you know, and my opinion though, I've been, you
1:08:42
know, a piece, may be a catalyst to well what we've done here,
1:08:44
but I've never scored a single point.
1:08:46
His team, you know, and in those 14 titles it's never been.
1:08:50
What did Coach Edgar do on that day?
1:08:51
You know you have one or two decisions, you know, and
1:08:54
obviously you kind of create a training model but at the end of
1:08:56
the day it's athletes, it's other coaches and it's those
1:09:00
pieces that have really led us to have 14 national titles, and
1:09:04
I'm in a lucky situation. And that, you know, the largest
1:09:08
donor for our track building is a very track centered person.
1:09:12
They are very, you know, very Fort Wayne.
1:09:16
NG Centric. They really believe in the
1:09:18
things that Indiana Tech is doing in and out of the Fort
1:09:20
Wayne Community and with their ability to stay Anonymous.
1:09:24
They them and along with Indiana Tech, you know, felt the
1:09:28
opportunity to bless me with that, you know, just just a huge
1:09:31
blessing. I don't know how else to say it.
1:09:33
I was definitely not expecting to hear that information when I
1:09:37
walked into the meeting that day.
1:09:39
My wife cried immediately. When we, when we found out the
1:09:43
information, you know? And so it's one of those that it
1:09:46
is. Incredible honor, and, and I'm
1:09:48
blessed. And I just feel like it's, it's
1:09:50
a representation of the over 1,000 athletes.
1:09:53
You know, the 2030 coaches that have been here, and I'm just
1:09:57
lucky that that I've kind of been a piece of how that all has
1:10:00
played out, you know. And so to me, it's, it's not my
1:10:04
building. Its Indiana Tech track and
1:10:06
Field's building. And I think with some of the
1:10:08
things we're hoping to do, honor meant wise, to our past athletes
1:10:12
that hopefully will ring true. And, and what people feel when
1:10:15
they enter the building, they I feel like it's my building.
1:10:18
They'll feel like it's an Indiana, Tech, track and field
1:10:20
Hall of Fame kind of mentality as they enter the building,
1:10:22
because that's really what it's about.
1:10:24
It's not about anything I've done here.
1:10:26
It's about these. You know that we were like, we
1:10:28
looked at other day. It's about 1,000 1,200 athletes.
1:10:30
I've brought into Indiana Tech, you know, and so, you know, I
1:10:33
think that's something we really hope to shine through with this
1:10:36
building. Well, in to make sure, let me
1:10:39
take a step back Doug, I love that.
1:10:42
This is happening even at this age and stage of your career,
1:10:45
because I'm the biggest cheerleader there is for track
1:10:49
coaches and their uplift, upliftment of lip.
1:10:53
I can eat a sandwich School in Alabama.
1:10:54
So this is, if I had an Indiana Tech degree, I probably say this
1:10:58
word. Being able to uplift coaches, I
1:11:00
love that bit of the honor coaches.
1:11:02
I love that, I love that, you know, Liberty just named their
1:11:06
meet the Brandt told summer Invitational because Brandt was
1:11:09
a longtime coach there that helped built much.
1:11:10
Like you helped saw that, that school go through building, an
1:11:14
outdoor complex, and of course, a great indoor composting.
1:11:16
Plex, so I love, I love that. I got more things need to be
1:11:19
named after track coaches, in my opinion, it's just always
1:11:22
interest and you're right, you made a great point there that,
1:11:25
you know, until you're in it. Like it's one thing to be
1:11:27
announced and everything but until every day you pass by the
1:11:30
dead girl Sportsplex or whatever you will see but it just always
1:11:36
fascinates me about like you know the human psychology of you
1:11:40
know, have I your you seen be a very grind it and hustling type
1:11:45
of coach for what? Done at Indiana Tech in through
1:11:47
your entire career through your athletic career.
1:11:51
My not fear my desire is that you don't say, well, I have
1:11:56
arrived, you know, you've seen a lot of coaches and athletes in
1:11:59
the Pro levels that I've arrived.
1:12:00
I got, you know what, actually I have a best example for this and
1:12:04
it's me, my whole coaching career was to get to the SEC.
1:12:07
And so when I got to the SEC, I literally was like, oh I have
1:12:10
arrived. When in fact, it was my ninth or
1:12:13
tenth year coaching, I should have had a longer career there,
1:12:16
right? But it was like, I've arrived,
1:12:18
I've done. I finally like my identity
1:12:20
identity. Built on being an SEC coach and
1:12:23
so I don't think I coached all that.
1:12:24
Well those last couple of years, before I moved on to other
1:12:27
things. That's what I That's What I
1:12:30
merely thought is like with you Doug.
1:12:31
It's like man, I don't want you to think because you see your
1:12:34
name in the biggest letters, you've maybe have ever seen your
1:12:36
name that you've arrived. You've got to always continue to
1:12:39
hustle. You've Won 14 when you get a win
1:12:41
for team or brother, you know? So that's why I was just
1:12:44
interested. You two, even had thought about
1:12:45
that along with this. So do you get a sense that
1:12:49
you're locked into Indiana Tech? Like if they Just giving you a
1:12:51
lifetime contract because you cannot go coach somewhere else
1:12:54
and have a meet at your facility with a rival to, you know I'm
1:12:57
saying? Yeah, I'm gonna be Indiana Tech
1:12:59
to the day it's done. As I think that's a, you know, a
1:13:02
tough sell, you know, and obviously I'm lucky that Indian
1:13:06
texts in Fort Wayne and I grew up in Fort Wayne.
1:13:07
My wife's family is from less than three hours away from here.
1:13:10
And so we're in a unique situation that I get to do all
1:13:14
this in my home City. You know, I think a lot of
1:13:15
people get an opportunity like this but it's, you know, they
1:13:18
have to move or go to a different coasts and we've been
1:13:20
lucky that. Get to have our family around us
1:13:23
and support us and we can still, you know, my kids can see their
1:13:25
grandparents and we can do all of those situations.
1:13:28
So definitely, you know, don't want to ever lose a conference
1:13:30
Championship and a building with your, with your name on it, I
1:13:33
think it if anything, it adds pressure to the group, you know,
1:13:35
I think you talked about, you know, resting on your laurels, I
1:13:38
think having a building like that means like, you know, I got
1:13:41
to keep winning, you know, you I know you had nig Dotson on the
1:13:44
podcast a couple weeks ago, you know, Nick's build a great
1:13:46
program, they're in Florida, you've got some other really
1:13:48
strong programs coming up at the Nai level and so I think that
1:13:51
That continues to keep you motivated every year, you know,
1:13:53
you've got, you know, my good friend Brian, Whitlock, down to
1:13:56
Texas, Donna Texas, at Wayland Baptist, you know, he's got an
1:13:59
amazing program and and we know we talk all the time and it's
1:14:02
just, you know, that desire to win is I don't see that going
1:14:05
away for me based on this building.
1:14:07
I I'm highly competitive when it comes to winning at the end, but
1:14:12
I think it'll be an awesome experience for athletes to have
1:14:14
something of their own. Well, I think you know, the
1:14:16
proof is in the pudding, right in.
1:14:18
Now, that I think about it with 14 titles after your Fourth, or
1:14:21
fifth, or sixth one, you easily could have been.
1:14:23
I have arrived, I mean, how many people first of all, this is
1:14:25
what I love about Teen title there.
1:14:27
So hard to win conference, National doesn't matter winning
1:14:29
is hard. I don't care where you're at.
1:14:32
So to do one like you are already in rarefied air, you win
1:14:35
one team title 99% coaches, will never get to that right on that.
1:14:40
Fourth to the sixth one, you could easily be like, oh, I've
1:14:42
arrived like, come on, man. I've I could fill up the whole
1:14:45
hand here, I'm Michael Jordan on this thing, right?
1:14:47
But yet here we are 14 years or 14 titles later.
1:14:50
So it means you had to To have continued like, okay, well, how
1:14:52
do we win the next one? And I bet I asked this question
1:14:55
set of just betting each one of those teams.
1:14:58
I bet they were fairly almost a radically but from 121, maybe
1:15:02
not so much. But there were a lot of
1:15:03
differences in those teams that won the titles, right?
1:15:06
Like the makeup of the team, the personality, the team, where
1:15:09
they pretty pretty different each time.
1:15:12
Yeah, I mean, I think we've always kind of been a speed
1:15:15
power based program. You know, I think Sprint's of
1:15:18
Sprint's have been a big score for us hurdles, you know, the
1:15:21
Long jump in the high jump, but we've been able to have some
1:15:24
success across some of those other events.
1:15:25
You know, some years, we have some really good distance,
1:15:27
squads another years. We were maybe a little bit more
1:15:29
pole, vaulter, orthros heavy, helping us out.
1:15:31
And so I think just coming back to that idea of continuing to
1:15:34
develop a complete team. And if we don't have something
1:15:36
and that's why we lost, you know, there were obviously years
1:15:38
in there, we lost by a point or two or this didn't go our way.
1:15:41
It's like, all right. Well, you know what didn't we
1:15:43
have this year that we need to get for next year and and what
1:15:45
are we graduating? And it's just always that.
1:15:47
I of, let's look at the recruiting board.
1:15:49
What's next? What do we got to fill?
1:15:51
And And and how do we keep this thing going?
1:15:52
Because it's, it's no fun to go to that meeting.
1:15:54
Not when you know it's and it, I think it's someone that gets to
1:15:57
coach both genders. I think that's even harder.
1:16:00
Like, when we've had one gender win and the other one not one
1:16:03
and you've got a 13 hour bus ride home, those are very
1:16:06
different bus rides. You know, we've had a men's
1:16:09
team, you know, basically pull a hamstring on the anchor leg of
1:16:11
the 4x4 that all we had to do is basically finish and we would
1:16:14
have won a team title and we had to ride that bus all the way
1:16:17
home. You know, while we had some
1:16:19
success may be on the on the women's meet that year was a
1:16:20
great. Means meat for us, you know, and
1:16:22
so I think that's the hard thing that a lot of track coaches have
1:16:25
to deal with. Is you, you have essentially two
1:16:27
teams competing at the national championship often.
1:16:30
And so trying to keep both of those teams their mentality,
1:16:34
after that meet in check and how they feel is is always a
1:16:37
challenge. But it's it's a very different
1:16:39
feeling when you walk away winning versus well we could
1:16:42
have won but that's an interesting conversation to
1:16:44
have. We're not going to have it
1:16:45
because we're going to move for TimeWise.
1:16:47
We're going to move to some other topic.
1:16:48
But that topic they are about, you know, track coaches work.
1:16:51
Coaching men's team and wins team women's teams.
1:16:53
A lot of the times in, you're right that bus, right?
1:16:55
Like when you describe that, I was like in my head, I was like,
1:16:58
oh my God, that'd be terrible because you want to be extremely
1:17:00
excited, but you're also extremely hurt for your other
1:17:02
team. We're a football team, I guess
1:17:04
ride or die together. You don't have to worry about,
1:17:06
you know, the Special Teams special teams team didn't lose
1:17:09
you. We all lost or we all one
1:17:11
together. That's that's really a
1:17:12
baseball's on its own, it softball Etc.
1:17:14
That's, that's interesting. Yeah.
1:17:16
But you mentioned, you know, the recruiting board and continue
1:17:19
recruiting one of the things and I talked about I live on
1:17:22
Twitter, some social media, I'm a huge proponent.
1:17:24
You've heard me talk about it in the past here, Ad, nauseam.
1:17:27
I am a big proponent of positive, social media, and
1:17:31
interestingly with your staff, seems to be.
1:17:35
And what I want to know is, if this is by Design or if this is
1:17:37
just by happenstance yours, coaching staff, seems to be very
1:17:41
active on social media, specifically Twitter.
1:17:43
Cause that's where I live. Is that a, that on purpose for
1:17:47
recruiting and brand building? You know, that's part of it too.
1:17:50
Or is that just Just, you know, you hired guys and gals that
1:17:52
just happen to also like Twitter or whatnot.
1:17:55
Yeah, I mean I think we're lucky now that we have some coaches on
1:17:59
staff that are very social media Savvy.
1:18:01
You know, I would say I use it a lot but I wouldn't say I'm good
1:18:03
at it. But I think for us, we, you
1:18:06
know, as a small school, you won't have to build a brand and
1:18:09
then to, you have to let everyone else know what that
1:18:11
brand looks like. Sounds like feels like, you
1:18:14
know, I think you don't we've only had a program for 12 or 13
1:18:17
years where a smaller school you know, kids don't grow up saying
1:18:20
well, I'm Let me go on Indiana Tech, you know, and so you have
1:18:23
to find ways to get your product in front of them.
1:18:26
And obviously, most people are gravitating right now.
1:18:28
Towards social media is a really easy way to get that product out
1:18:32
there. And so we feel like you know, as
1:18:33
far as athlete development and what we do and how many people
1:18:36
were willing to give opportunities to other things
1:18:38
that were willing to try, we want to kind of go to where the
1:18:40
athletes live and often times that's, that's social media.
1:18:43
So it is definitely a push for us and our staff to get that
1:18:46
information out there when we have good results.
1:18:48
We want, you know, people know how.
1:18:49
Wow, you know, Indiana Tech is Rerun this or jump this or
1:18:52
throwing this and maybe that just gets that hook that, hey,
1:18:55
you know what I mean? You know, that athlete drops in
1:18:57
your DMs and says, hey, I'm kind of interested.
1:18:59
I'm still looking for a school, you know?
1:19:01
I think that's where social media has been really helpful
1:19:03
for us is just where we're trying to Brand.
1:19:05
You know, it seems like I've been doing this forever but
1:19:08
you're never going to be known to everyone at a school of our
1:19:12
size. Like I said, that's just not
1:19:13
what we're going to be. We're going to have to continue.
1:19:15
You know I may take 40 or 50 more years before everybody
1:19:18
knows the Indiana Tech, track and field is a good.
1:19:21
And and what it can do for them. Well, you said, you don't think
1:19:24
you're very good at social media.
1:19:26
I think you're terrible. You know why?
1:19:29
Why? Because you post some of the
1:19:30
most amazing food pictures and it seems like only when I'm
1:19:34
extremely hungry. They get the wings, all the
1:19:38
other year. Like you remind me of Devon
1:19:41
West? I don't know if you know, Devon
1:19:42
he's now at the University of Georgia as a assistant coach and
1:19:45
recruiting coordinator, and he's famous for on his social media.
1:19:48
It's all the food, you know, it's perfectly safe.
1:19:51
So yeah, you're tearing me because I am always hungry.
1:19:53
When I look through Twitter, when I see your Postman, you
1:19:56
must be, is that the kind of a passion of yours?
1:19:57
Like you seem to enjoy cook in and maybe specifically grilling?
1:20:02
Yeah, I think, I think that's what I like my wife and I
1:20:04
passion, you just kind of that, we've kind of become those, you
1:20:06
know, prototypical Foodies, like, when we go to a city,
1:20:08
like, I really enjoy like investing in the the food
1:20:11
culture, you know, and kind of trying to learn the city through
1:20:14
food. And I think that kind of, then
1:20:15
translates the things. We try back at home, and we've
1:20:18
got four young kids and so trying to expand Eyelets is
1:20:21
always. Oh yeah.
1:20:22
And interesting thing is as a parent there and so I think we
1:20:25
always are just trying things but yeah, I love anything that
1:20:28
involves the grill, you know, Wings meat steak.
1:20:31
Let's do it. So my wife is the cooker and the
1:20:33
baker of the family. Like just let me, let me do
1:20:36
whatever the meat product is for dinner and I'll get out of your
1:20:38
way for everything else. Well I never do this but next
1:20:41
time I'm in Fort Wayne, I'm inviting myself over and I want
1:20:44
to partake. I want to feel like I'm
1:20:46
connected to the social media of You by actually partaking.
1:20:50
That's and it's bringing Get in. Well, as we wrap up today Doug,
1:20:53
you know, as we talked about social media and stuff like
1:20:56
that, you know, social media, I think is 100% a positive thing.
1:20:59
Let me state that differently it can and should be 100% a
1:21:03
positive thing, because it's social media, right?
1:21:06
It's a communication tool, that's how I look at it.
1:21:08
I look at podcast and things like that.
1:21:10
It's all about communication. You talked about back in the
1:21:13
day, when you were recruiting, you know, writing letters and
1:21:15
I'm sure that still goes on. But now like I can get in touch
1:21:18
with me personally, I can get in touch with almost any coach.
1:21:21
In the world, through some form of social media and you as a
1:21:24
coach can connect with a recruit almost immediately or you know
1:21:30
the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. It's like two degrees to get to
1:21:32
an athlete, right? I can find a coach that coaches
1:21:35
him or her and I can reach out. So that's why I love social
1:21:38
media in social media is sometimes good band in regards
1:21:42
to warts and all and recently, I guess by the time you're
1:21:46
listening to this, it's about two months ago.
1:21:48
You had a post that maybe wasn't warts and all Here on this yet
1:21:52
oppose that maybe some people took, I don't know how to
1:21:56
actually put it. I don't want to repeat the
1:21:57
Tweet, it's since been deleted. But basically you had a recruit
1:22:01
that called you and maybe wasn't actually, as respectful as maybe
1:22:05
the recruits should have been and maybe your response wasn't
1:22:08
as great as it could have. Been should have been talk to me
1:22:10
a little bit about not necessarily that pose but you
1:22:13
know why and what maybe lessons did you learn from that?
1:22:17
Yeah I mean I think as a coach, you're always looking for great.
1:22:21
Some moments. And I said, I'm lucky that my,
1:22:23
my wife over the years, has proof, read some tweets and
1:22:25
maybe things that, you know, in the moment you get really upset
1:22:28
and you want to send things out, you know, I think the
1:22:32
educational piece as far as levels.
1:22:34
I think we've got, you know, some coaches that are doing a
1:22:36
really good job, kind of showing what it takes to compete at each
1:22:38
level. And in this case, you know, the
1:22:41
athlete felt they were at a level higher than either Nai or
1:22:45
D3 across the board. It wasn't an Indiana Tech thing.
1:22:48
They weren't saying that Indiana Tech couldn't get them to.
1:22:50
There were saying Neither of these divisions were even, you
1:22:53
know, on their level. And obviously, they were still
1:22:55
developing athlete. That was behind the national
1:22:57
standards for both of those divisions.
1:22:59
So, I think, you know, as a coach you find better or more, I
1:23:03
don't even know better ways to get that information out, you
1:23:07
know, to recruits and and maybe it's not our job to educate
1:23:11
them. Maybe that's, you know, a
1:23:12
different person, or a different service, but I think just
1:23:15
understanding the benefits of small school, track and field,
1:23:21
Magic khn, you know, to completely right off a
1:23:24
scholarship and educational opportunity, a team opportunity
1:23:27
because of a team's Division, I guess just always seemed really
1:23:29
silly to me, you know, and maybe that's because I am the small
1:23:31
school guy and I haven't been part of the big school but
1:23:34
you've got any high schools that could compete and D1
1:23:37
conferences. You've got, you know, D three
1:23:39
schools that could you know, compete here.
1:23:40
You know, you've gotta, you know, school at Grand Valley
1:23:42
State up in Michigan. That's the size of it.
1:23:44
Every D1 school in the country, but competes in division, 2, for
1:23:47
whatever reason, you know. And so, you know, I think just
1:23:51
Understanding how track and field work track and field works
1:23:53
at the Collegiate level that maybe as a struggle for a lot of
1:23:56
Juniors and seniors, you know, we're lucky enough like this
1:23:59
weekend. We get to compete at the
1:24:00
University of Kentucky, you know, coach coach.
1:24:03
Lonnie Green has been an awesome Champion for small schools.
1:24:06
He's given us the opportunity. We're incredibly grateful, you
1:24:09
know? You know, Texas, Tech, same
1:24:10
thing, they've allowed small schools, into these larger meet,
1:24:14
you know, coach all the way up. Florida, you know, for the
1:24:15
relays and most years is an open competition, you know, and
1:24:18
getting athletes to understand that and Canfield of all of the
1:24:22
Collegiate Sports division is really irrelevant, it's finding
1:24:25
the right fit, the best financial fit, the best academic
1:24:29
fit, you know, in a coach that you feel I can get you to
1:24:32
whatever your goals are. But at the same time to me, I
1:24:34
would want to have success, you know, and want to say, okay,
1:24:37
well, what does my mark mean? Like, am I doing all this to
1:24:40
maybe even just get to the conference M?
1:24:42
Could I run that same Mark in a different division and qualify
1:24:45
for Nationals and have a different experience, you know?
1:24:47
And and so I think, you know, a lot of that part of social Media
1:24:51
is just trying to find that fine line of how do you put out a
1:24:55
piece of Education without being super specific.
1:24:57
But still get that information out there and I think always
1:25:01
editing yourself. You can always do better, you
1:25:03
know, I think in the moment, you know, being upset or, you know,
1:25:07
taking something personal, even though it was geared toward, you
1:25:11
know, essentially 500 schools, you always are going to take
1:25:13
that, you know, kind of insulate.
1:25:15
It and say, well, you know, what do you mean you wouldn't be
1:25:17
interested in either of these divisions?
1:25:19
Like, you know what these people are doing?
1:25:21
You know, it, you know you've got professional runners coming
1:25:23
out of these divisions. So I think that's where it gets
1:25:25
hard as a coached for people to not understand you know how open
1:25:30
track and field. It's compared to some of our
1:25:31
other Collegiate Sports. Yeah and I agree 100%, I've said
1:25:35
for a long time, you want to go see maybe some of the best
1:25:37
coaches out there. Go look at the D3 National meet.
1:25:40
In ninety percent of those kids were not Division, 1 material,
1:25:43
or scholarship material, maybe 90% pretty high, but but the
1:25:48
majority of those kids were not scholarship material.
1:25:51
Laughs. Luckily, but go look at the D3
1:25:53
national results. They're Pretty stinking fast and
1:25:56
jump far and throw far and and run run fast.
1:26:00
So someone had a percent with you on that.
1:26:02
Do you have any, you know, I talked about earlier you now
1:26:05
that we're you know, 15 years in the game and we've recruited a
1:26:08
thousand plus athletes. That's cool.
1:26:10
That's really quite remarkable. Doug, we have perspective.
1:26:14
We can look back and kind of draw parallels thinking about
1:26:18
the, the example that led to this tweet, Earlier, you talked
1:26:22
about how you kind of I'ma say, in my words.
1:26:25
I don't want to put words in your mouth, how you kind of blew
1:26:27
off Anderson for a Ball State and IPFW and things like that.
1:26:32
Do you draw any parallels as the athlete side of it?
1:26:34
Thinking about what that athlete said, which I agree with what
1:26:37
you're saying. She needs perspective course,
1:26:40
she was probably 17 or 18 years old.
1:26:42
I don't know how much perspective I can expect from a
1:26:45
17 18 year old 46. And I don't, yeah, I need more
1:26:48
perspective for crying out loud. But can you think about, you
1:26:50
know, almost like put yourself and and every kid not
1:26:53
necessarily this one individual but every kid out there that 17
1:26:56
18 year olds and says, o NAIA division three, you know, first
1:26:59
of all, I don't see that on Saturday when I watch the LSU
1:27:02
game or or the Troy University game, the best university in the
1:27:05
world. Can you start now that you have
1:27:07
perspective? Kind of look back and see.
1:27:08
Like, okay, maybe I can understand where she was coming
1:27:12
from. I don't agree with it but I can
1:27:14
understand. Yeah.
1:27:17
And I think that probably comes back to just the idea of why we
1:27:19
try to be so open on our social media.
1:27:22
You know, I think all of our coaches are open with their
1:27:24
personal lives and open with how we recruit and, and what we do
1:27:28
to try to give athletes a glimpse of like, okay, like you
1:27:31
think this is where you have to be in?
1:27:33
This is the only place to do track and field.
1:27:34
Well, here's some things that you can do at this level.
1:27:37
Here's athletes that have done it for us and what that look
1:27:39
like. And here's a meat that, you
1:27:40
know, this athlete went to and, you know, if you go to the all
1:27:43
divisions list, you know, here's you know, we had a woman's Or by
1:27:46
2 that was top, five six in the country at one point a couple of
1:27:49
years ago. And so I think, just trying to
1:27:52
like I said, walk that fine line of Education versus, you know,
1:27:57
being the old man screaming at somebody on your lawn like you
1:27:59
know, listen to me like would I'ma tell you there's some good
1:28:01
stuff out here, but, you know, trying to, you know, do that
1:28:04
maybe in a more positive way, you know.
1:28:06
And I think that's, that's the area where we got to continue to
1:28:09
grow or decide need to continue to grow.
1:28:10
As how do you positively get that information out there being
1:28:14
a little bit more General, being a little bit?
1:28:15
Broad learning from that experience but still not being
1:28:20
afraid to say that our products pretty damn good in and then D3
1:28:24
and NAIA D2 on the whole. I mean, those are marks that are
1:28:28
going into a lot of, you know, big big conferences in scoring
1:28:31
points. Those are teams that could win
1:28:33
Nationals or win conference meets at, at the very least, and
1:28:36
other divisions. And so I think that's, that's
1:28:39
probably the biggest push for me is just showing that that
1:28:42
product can be the right fit for a lot of athletes.
1:28:44
And just because Was your uh, next time doesn't mean you have
1:28:48
to go to a school. That might not be the best fit
1:28:50
for you. That might not be the coach,
1:28:51
that's the right fit for. You might not be the academic
1:28:53
program, maybe you need to be in a class of 50 people, not 500.
1:28:57
And I think writing off before, you know, me not writing off an
1:29:01
athlete is that it is hopefully getting them to also not write
1:29:04
us off before they at least give us a chance.
1:29:06
You know, if you tour the campus, you meet the staff, you
1:29:08
meet the team and you're like not the right fit.
1:29:11
We can go 100% understand that, you know, I think it's always
1:29:13
hard when somebody won't let you in the door to give you Please
1:29:16
give you the five minutes to say, hey, this is what we could
1:29:18
do for you. Yeah I think what you're
1:29:19
describing there is pride. I don't know if vs.
1:29:22
Is the right put her together there but Pride versus humility
1:29:26
in the sense of the pride of not only your program, your school
1:29:30
and your division. Any I you 100% absolutely could
1:29:35
and should have that Pride. You have earned it with zero
1:29:39
titles. You have still earned it to be
1:29:40
proud of what you are building and have built and the students
1:29:44
that you represent. And then the other side of that
1:29:47
you'd mention you know when I talk about the humility side
1:29:49
you'd mention like maybe it's not my job to teach guy.
1:29:51
I don't know you know it's there's a humility like maybe
1:29:53
it's not even my baby. I have that conversation with
1:29:55
that recruit. I have to assume you probably
1:29:57
have that conversation several times.
1:30:00
I have to assume based on the whole D1 or bust mentality that
1:30:04
you know we that is portrayed out there that humility like
1:30:08
maybe it's not my job to to to teach that person or teach the
1:30:12
greater body. I think maybe it actually is,
1:30:15
maybe a We'll teach that person individually when he or she
1:30:18
says, hey I'm better than NAIA. I should be Division 1 or
1:30:22
whatever and they're like well, you know?
1:30:23
Hey, give me two minutes of me. Tell you, what kind of marks we
1:30:25
have on our team? You tell me where you think you
1:30:27
would fit in on our team, for crying out loud, you know, that
1:30:30
kind of thing. So when you're actually making
1:30:32
the tweet and we'll wrap up here, Doug's, I don't want to
1:30:34
spend too much time until I just really love the and again, so
1:30:38
appreciative of your humble. Now, I mean, you 100% did not do
1:30:42
not have to talk about that, you know, while everything lives in
1:30:45
on the twitterverse, right? You still don't have to talk
1:30:47
about it. So I really do appreciate your
1:30:49
openness and authenticity. That really says a lot about
1:30:51
your character in my opinion. So I do appreciate you even
1:30:54
having this conversation, when you made the post, it appears
1:30:59
that a roughly I'm no statistician here but roughly 50
1:31:03
percent were like yet Doug. That's right.
1:31:05
And the other 50% were, you're basically the devil which
1:31:09
welcome social media, you're either, you either non-existent
1:31:12
or you the devil. That's kind of sometimes.
1:31:14
I'll social media works, right? Did you expect?
1:31:17
What? So when you hit send and did
1:31:19
Samantha review this, tweeted that she wanted you?
1:31:23
I wanted you off the hook on that one.
1:31:24
Samantha to see. It said you sometimes dream that
1:31:26
one that's like let's get her off the hook here.
1:31:29
But when you hit send what was your expectation of responses?
1:31:34
If at all, I tweet 50 times a day.
1:31:36
So I don't really like I don't really have an expectation.
1:31:38
I'll get any responses that may have been as well with what were
1:31:41
you what were you thinking was going to happen?
1:31:43
Yeah, I mean II think it was you know, obviously So you're at the
1:31:47
time you're just thinking there's no way anyone could ever
1:31:49
believe that these two divisions are not, you know?
1:31:52
And so I think you in my head I felt most people these people
1:31:56
that were had coached Collegiate track and field or high school
1:31:59
and had seen, you know, the marks that those kinds of levels
1:32:01
had put up that they would be like yeah like I mean at least
1:32:04
listen to you. No one school there's got to be
1:32:06
some school. You know what is I don't know.
1:32:07
What is that 700 schools between those two divisions?
1:32:10
Like there's gotta be one school in there that might be the right
1:32:13
fit for you and so I think from my side I think it was trying to
1:32:16
come at it from that side of, as like, least least listen to an
1:32:20
opportunity. I guess, if if I had had, you
1:32:22
know, 30 scholarships, you know, obviously I went to a D3 school,
1:32:25
you know? So it's not, you know,
1:32:27
non-scholarship obviously. But if I had had 30 School say
1:32:30
hey, we might be able to give you little bit of money to run
1:32:31
in track. I think I would have at least
1:32:33
listen to that to that side of the piece and at least heard him
1:32:37
out. And again maybe you're not ready
1:32:38
to hear it at that moment in time like I wasn't, you know,
1:32:40
with Anderson right away and maybe it grows later ironically
1:32:44
for us. I probably I had 70 to 80
1:32:47
recruits are High School coaches that sent us stuff and said, hey
1:32:50
this kid would be great for your division.
1:32:51
This kid would be great for your school, on our side of it and it
1:32:55
ended up being a big positive on our recruiting side of it.
1:32:59
Obviously, you know, don't want to single it out, you know, from
1:33:03
that, from that side of it. You know, I think being more
1:33:05
vague or just suggesting a, hey, you know, here's what the
1:33:08
product is. And maybe taking it thinking,
1:33:10
more on it before you put it out there, maybe is just is always
1:33:13
is always a good positive of like okay.
1:33:15
How could Word this to get the idea across of hey, D3 and Nai.
1:33:19
Track is really good. Do to track is really good, you
1:33:23
know, be open to those ideas, you know, and maybe just being a
1:33:26
little bit smarter about how you put that out, like you said, and
1:33:29
into the twitterverse it's it's 140 characters or whatever.
1:33:32
Right now to 280, I don't know what ride anymore, but you know,
1:33:35
those characters rarely have context to them.
1:33:37
And I think that's where, you know, maybe it struggled, it's
1:33:42
hard to then respond. And you know, if we had just if
1:33:44
I had just had the Ocean with anybody in that group to
1:33:47
disagree with me, one-on-one. I think saying it like this.
1:33:50
Like, hey, like using how many athletes in the country wouldn't
1:33:53
have a good experience at any ird, three.
1:33:54
I would say very few, you know, and so I think coming out of it
1:33:57
had you worded it that way, you know, you it comes down to your
1:34:00
word and your delivery and a lot of cases and how do you do that
1:34:04
better? It's something you always have
1:34:05
to do as a coach. Yeah, I think you hit one of the
1:34:08
nails and had their context matters and also to me intent
1:34:12
matters, it doesn't matter. Now we hear the kind of the
1:34:14
backstory, so Here in context to it.
1:34:17
It none of me not a single part of me believes that the intent
1:34:20
was to shame or blame this individual.
1:34:23
It actually. It's kind of actually a little
1:34:25
bit more authentic. When you think about, you know,
1:34:28
we talked about social media being only positive like, you
1:34:30
know, don't don't look at social media because you only see all
1:34:34
the great things, you never see the struggling, you know, you
1:34:36
have kids, you know, whatever, post a picture of their baby
1:34:38
crying and things like that. You post all these amazing track
1:34:42
photos of your kids doing hurdles over the pillows and
1:34:44
stuff. I love that.
1:34:46
But here's you here, you are actually using social media more
1:34:49
of how I think it could and should be in your kind of baring
1:34:52
your soul. Like, here's a frustration.
1:34:53
I have here's someone that I wanted to talk about an
1:34:56
opportunity and blew me off without even listening.
1:35:01
Like it was a frustration I kind of liked it in that sense of
1:35:04
like it's not always the pods not.
1:35:06
You're not only tweeting when you sign a big kid like you just
1:35:09
did by the way. Holy cow, you know?
1:35:11
So it was actually kind of the baring your soul.
1:35:13
Like I'm frustrated, I'm going to put that on social.
1:35:15
As well. So I think content matters with
1:35:18
it as well and I don't think that now having context around,
1:35:21
I don't think the intent was was ever - and yeah, I think I
1:35:25
don't, you know, I don't like I said, I don't begrudge the
1:35:27
athlete for wanting whatever, they feel like is the best
1:35:30
experience. I think it's just, you know,
1:35:34
having that respect at least. Hear somebody out and see where
1:35:37
that is and like you said, educationally.
1:35:39
I had, you know, no desire for that particular person to feel
1:35:43
any type of situation. I think it was More de speaking,
1:35:46
try it. You know again being more broad
1:35:48
always always seems like it it helps in situations like that
1:35:51
but I think the situation is obviously still repeating over
1:35:55
and over and over again. You know, with athletes that are
1:35:57
missing opportunities that may be the right fit for them and I
1:36:01
think taking, you know, a 20-minute phone call, an
1:36:04
unofficial visit a virtual visit, you know, I think those
1:36:07
opportunities that a lot of athletes just say well you know,
1:36:10
like you said that the D1 or Bust or I have to go to this
1:36:13
school. Well why like why do you have to
1:36:15
do that? I can feel like there's so many
1:36:17
other opportunities are ways that you can get to the goal
1:36:19
that you want. You know, at the end of the day,
1:36:21
you want to get a great education pay as little for it
1:36:24
as possible, have an awesome track experience.
1:36:26
You know, and obviously meet some friends and grow personally
1:36:29
along the way. And I think, you know, there's
1:36:31
any number of paths that you can take and it doesn't have to
1:36:33
happen at X, Y, or z school. But it to at least open up your
1:36:38
mind to those are options for you out there.
1:36:40
You know every every athlete in this country that runs track and
1:36:43
field has at least 10 to 20 schools.
1:36:45
No matter what their marks are, that would be interested in them
1:36:47
and so it has nothing to do with your mark, some of our most
1:36:50
successful athletes. You know, the girl that owns all
1:36:52
my school records in the in the Sprint's was the fourth best
1:36:55
athlete in her recruiting class, you know.
1:36:57
And so had she said you know well you know we're not good
1:36:59
enough or whatever like you know maybe but you know she ended up
1:37:02
becoming with development you know the the top athlete we've
1:37:06
I've ever had the privilege of coaching so I think just being
1:37:08
open was probably what I had hoped people would gain from it.
1:37:12
Like I said, obviously it can be a little bit polarizing once you
1:37:14
get on social media and Take out the context and all the
1:37:17
backstory and all those other pieces.
1:37:20
It's only 200 characters, man. That's the, that's the tough
1:37:22
part. But Matt Doug, as we end today
1:37:25
first of all, you notice we've been an hour and a half of for
1:37:27
you listening, Doug told me at the beginning.
1:37:29
During our pre-interview is like look man, I'm not much of a
1:37:32
talker and let you know, vote open at one school forever.
1:37:35
This won't be that long and I was like, oh Doug, you don't
1:37:37
know my skill set. I can get out this this journey
1:37:40
of yours and I am just so humbled that you would stay
1:37:44
visit with us. Today is sit down with us.
1:37:45
Us and described this journey. I love the, you know, I, it's
1:37:49
awesome because we can look back at it.
1:37:50
Now, I love that you didn't finish college track and field
1:37:53
as an athlete. I really do that again.
1:37:56
I'll you listening out there that you, if you want to become
1:37:58
a head coach of a program somewhere, if you want to make
1:38:00
it to College coaching ranks, you want to win national titles.
1:38:04
It does not have to be some curated talking about social
1:38:07
media, right? Some curated, everything's
1:38:09
perfect laid out, and it's just a stair.
1:38:11
Step up, its ups and downs. And so, you know, Doug for you
1:38:15
to Here today, you know, almost baring your soul if you will but
1:38:19
you know, being open and authentic man that again that
1:38:21
says to me, he says so much about your character.
1:38:24
I'm just so humbled that you would sit down with us today and
1:38:26
share that Journey For share. Thanks for having me, Mike.
1:38:29
Yeah man, I appreciate you. By the time you listen this, now
1:38:31
you're getting ready to go to a Bismarck I think right?
1:38:33
For Nationals sounds good it's going to be cold and snowy.
1:38:36
I love that facility because it's all ours which is I love it
1:38:39
very much and that coach is awesome.
1:38:40
I love him too. So, good luck.
1:38:42
I must say this is weird because of how we do podcasts.
1:38:45
Good luck next. So we can Nationals even though
1:38:47
it's really January. So Doug, thank you so much, man.
1:38:50
Have an awesome day. Awesome!
1:38:52
Thanks! Thanks Mike what an incredible
1:39:01
journey coach has been on so awesome to hear their story in
1:39:04
their own words, tremendous proof of the positive effects
1:39:06
coaches make on a daily basis. Help us spread the word of this.
1:39:10
Great journey by sharing on your favorite social, media channel.
1:39:13
And don't forget to take a minute to rate and review the
1:39:15
podcast. You just might get a shout out
1:39:17
on a future episode. That's it for today.
1:39:20
Join us next week, when we'll connect you with another
1:39:23
amazing. Crunch.