Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 21: Struggles of a Married Church Lady

Transcript

Ep. 21: Struggles of a Married Church Lady · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:00
  Welcome to the We Are More podcast.
• 0:13
  My name is Alyssa.
• 0:15
  And my name is Bri.
• 0:16
  We are two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism.
• 0:20
  We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach His
• 0:25
  word.
• 0:26
  And apparently that's controversial.
• 0:28
  Get comfy.
• 0:32
  Hello!
• 0:34
  Hello!
• 0:35
  Is it me you're looking for?
• 0:41
  I don't think so.
• 0:43
  Good.
• 0:44
  So, when this episode comes out Bri, guess where we will be?
• 0:50
  Oh, the moon!
• 0:51
  Ah yes.
• 0:53
  We've been planning this trip to the moon for some time now.
• 0:56
  I've always been scared of the moon.
• 1:00
  Like just in general you see it in the sky and you're like, woo!
• 1:03
  I had nightmares as a child that my kindergarten class was gonna go on a field trip to the
• 1:10
  moon and it was like a reoccurring nightmare.
• 1:13
  I'm gonna go ahead and blame that on the Magic School Bus.
• 1:15
  It must have been.
• 1:16
  That sounds right.
• 1:17
  I was so scared.
• 1:18
  But we're not gonna be on the moon.
• 1:20
  No, because that's silly, Brianna.
• 1:23
  Silly me.
• 1:24
  We will be in Disney!
• 1:26
  Disney!
• 1:27
  Hooray!
• 1:28
  Huzzah!
• 1:29
  So we're pre-recording several episodes.
• 1:31
  I think I've mentioned that before because I just I don't think I can manage to edit
• 1:36
  a full episode while hanging out with Mickey Mouse.
• 1:39
  I'm not hanging out with Mickey Mouse.
• 1:41
  That kind of scares me.
• 1:42
  We are going to a surprising amount of character meals because we've got three kids going with
• 1:46
  us and I'm sure they will have a great time.
• 1:50
  But can I just say as an introvert with like a whole bunch of social anxiety, that is my
• 1:56
  worst nightmare.
• 1:57
  I hate hate hate when the characters come up and want to interact with you and I know that's
• 2:02
  their job but I hate it.
• 2:04
  I like to see them from afar.
• 2:06
  Yeah, in a distance.
• 2:07
  Like when Pooh is over and he's trying to capture butterflies.
• 2:11
  That's very cute.
• 2:12
  He's so cute but I don't want to go near him.
• 2:14
  No.
• 2:15
  Because that's a person.
• 2:16
  The one positive is because we have all the kids with us, they focus on the kids.
• 2:24
  And we just sort of sit in the back and you do a quick little wave like, hey Mickey.
• 2:27
  And you wave.
• 2:28
  You're so fine, you blow my mind.
• 2:29
  Hey Mickey.
• 2:30
  I don't think that's about Mickey Mouse.
• 2:33
  I have no idea what it's about.
• 2:35
  Frankly, I don't either and it's very confusing to me.
• 2:39
  But I'm super excited that by the time this premieres, like we're that close by the time
• 2:43
  this premieres.
• 2:44
  As we are recording this, we are two weeks away.
• 2:47
  Yeah.
• 2:48
  Yeah.
• 2:49
  So right at this moment based on the time of week, I don't know where we'll be.
• 2:52
  You guys can all be jealous or you can join us.
• 2:55
  I don't know.
• 2:56
  You can come along.
• 2:57
  But you probably won't know that much what we look like because this is a podcast.
• 3:01
  It's like how old radio people, you didn't know who your favorite radio personalities
• 3:05
  were because you never saw them.
• 3:07
  My favorite radio personality was always Teddy Roosevelt.
• 3:13
  Did you know that the Queen used to do like a...
• 3:17
  Yeah.
• 3:18
  Yes, I know.
• 3:20
  I love the Queen.
• 3:22
  Audrey knows much about the Queen.
• 3:24
  I love the Queen.
• 3:25
  You love the former Queen.
• 3:26
  Yeah.
• 3:27
  Yeah.
• 3:28
  I don't want to insult any of our Brits that are listening, but Queen Elizabeth, I miss
• 3:34
  you.
• 3:35
  I don't think that would insult them as a rule.
• 3:37
  I think she was generally pretty well liked.
• 3:40
  She was very cute.
• 3:42
  Has anybody else watched The Crown?
• 3:44
  I can't bring myself to watch the last couple episodes right now of the most current season.
• 3:49
  Do they kill her off?
• 3:51
  That just really hurt my feelings the way you said that.
• 3:54
  It just seems really dark.
• 3:56
  Why wouldn't they stop before that happens?
• 3:58
  No, they haven't killed her off.
• 4:02
  I'm not nearly as invested in the royal family as my sister and my mother.
• 4:08
  So sorry.
• 4:09
  And your grandmother and your aunt.
• 4:12
  All the people, they are quite invested.
• 4:15
  Anyway.
• 4:18
  Welcome to another episode of We Are More.
• 4:22
  And if I had some background radio noises, I would make them like we're in the 1940s.
• 4:29
  Did that help?
• 4:30
  No, that was worse.
• 4:32
  Sorry.
• 4:33
  Last week, no, two weeks ago, in one of our previous episodes.
• 4:38
  I have no idea.
• 4:40
  We talked about singleness in the church.
• 4:43
  Bree led that one for us.
• 4:45
  I did.
• 4:46
  You're welcome.
• 4:47
  We just edited it, so Bree, were you proud of yourself?
• 4:49
  Did you have wise things to say?
• 4:51
  I feel like I was mostly wise and I feel like I was a little bit aggressive.
• 4:56
  That sounds on par for everything that we do.
• 4:59
  Yeah.
• 5:00
  So today we're going to talk about being married in the church, not like a marriage ceremony
• 5:07
  in the church, but like being a married woman within the context of the church.
• 5:12
  A Christian married woman.
• 5:13
  Yeah.
• 5:14
  What that means for you.
• 5:15
  Yeah.
• 5:16
  So we're going to talk a little bit more of my story.
• 5:19
  I don't know a lot about that.
• 5:20
  Unless Bree has something she hasn't told us yet.
• 5:22
  Brianna, secret marriages.
• 5:23
  Yes.
• 5:24
  I married to the prince.
• 5:26
  Oh, wow.
• 5:28
  Of where?
• 5:30
  Anyway, that'll be our new transition.
• 5:33
  Elissa has to just say anyway.
• 5:35
  Anyway.
• 5:36
  We haven't brought that one up in a while.
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  So if you haven't listened to our first episode where we kind of told our stories and the
• 5:47
  basics of who we are, I got married when I was 21.
• 5:52
  Like pretty freshly 21.
• 5:54
  I feel like you turned 21 and immediately got married.
• 5:58
  It was very quick.
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  It was a couple months later.
• 6:00
  So I was extremely young.
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  If you are not part of a more conservative church space, that might seem weird to you.
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  Statistically it is really young, but within the church it's not.
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  At 21 you're probably like an old maid.
• 6:16
  Probably.
• 6:17
  Yeah.
• 6:18
  I was not the first one of my friends to get married.
• 6:19
  I was among the first, but I wasn't the first one for sure.
• 6:23
  And it was just kind of what you did.
• 6:27
  You were in college still.
• 6:28
  Oh yeah.
• 6:29
  It was between my junior and senior years that we got married.
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  And I remember it being even within our family who are very conservative.
• 6:39
  I still was pretty young.
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  I was definitely on the younger side.
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  I remember getting a couple of comments like, are you sure about this?
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  Which definitely just came out of love and valid points.
• 6:51
  But that was, like I said, not that uncommon.
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  So we got married and still were in college.
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  And let me tell you, you don't know yourself when you're 21.
• 7:04
  Do you know yourself when you're 91?
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  No.
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  I got a thing better than at 21, one would hope.
• 7:09
  You've at least lived with yourself for longer.
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  Who am I?
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  What are we?
• 7:13
  Where are those?
• 7:14
  Where are those?
• 7:18
  So I want to talk through just a little bit of, I don't know, what it's been like to be
• 7:23
  married for so long within a church context.
• 7:27
  Because it's been like my whole adult life.
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  And maybe what you feel like some of the church expectations of you are because you're married.
• 7:35
  Yeah, so I took a bunch of notes.
• 7:38
  Are you all proud?
• 7:39
  No.
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  They're on my computer and it is really precariously sitting here on this tiny, tiny desk.
• 7:44
  I think you just almost knocked it over with your butt.
• 7:46
  Well, it's not a big butt, so it can't do that much damage.
• 7:50
  You just almost knocked it over again.
• 7:53
  So I think one of the things when you first get married is you think you're part of the
• 8:00
  club now.
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  Like there's this super secret group of married women in the church and you feel like, okay,
• 8:08
  now I can talk to these women.
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  Now they'll know what to say to me.
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  They have such wise advice.
• 8:14
  It's gonna be great, right?
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  I did the thing I was supposed to do.
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  I fulfilled my life's calling.
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  All of my 20 some odd years before this have been leading to this moment.
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  I don't know what I was doing before, but my life didn't begin.
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  You were just floating around looking for a husband.
• 8:30
  Yeah, like a blob.
• 8:31
  And I really think that's kind of how you feel.
• 8:36
  I know we joke about it, but it is kind of how you feel.
• 8:39
  And I was really young when I got married, so I guess I didn't feel that for super long.
• 8:43
  But you feel like everything has been leading up to you walking down the aisle and your
• 8:50
  life can begin, but it also kind of feels like everything led up to this moment.
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  So after this, it's all just milk and cookies.
• 8:59
  Like everything's gonna be good, right?
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  And then you get into this circle of married women in the church and you're part of the
• 9:07
  club, but it turns out the club sucks.
• 9:10
  And I don't say this about marriage in and of itself.
• 9:16
  Every marriage is totally different.
• 9:19
  I will say the first year of marriage is incredibly difficult, particularly when you're that young.
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  But that's kind of not the point of this.
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  It's hard.
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  So just be aware of that.
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  When you're getting married young, give it some time.
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  My marriage is great and wonderful and I love my husband, but it's tough.
• 9:37
  And you get into this club and all of these expectations start to be put on you.
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  You think, okay, well now the pastor is gonna be talking to me when he talks about marriage
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  and I'm gonna understand.
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  Like the Holy Spirit is gonna give me this beautiful understanding of what he's expecting
• 9:57
  of me and what my husband's expecting of me.
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  And I don't know, you just think it's all perfect from here on out, right?
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  And one of the things that I found out very quickly from churches, from women in my life,
• 10:17
  from books, from everything was the expectation of a married woman is to suffer.
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  It's so sad.
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  It makes me so sad.
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  What do you mean by that?
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  So I, well, let me tell you, I haven't written down.
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  Okay.
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  If your husband is mean, don't say anything to him.
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  Suffer.
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  If he doesn't help out around the house, and I'm not saying that the house is the woman's
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  domain or whatever, but in a lot of these contexts, that's the consideration.
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  So if he doesn't help around the house by doing the dishes, by taking out the trash,
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  by whatever, don't nag him.
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  Suffer.
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  If he's abusive, don't tell anyone.
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  Suffer.
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  If your kids don't respect you, don't tell anyone, don't ask for help.
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  Suffer.
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  It's constantly keep it in, keep it in, obey, suffer, suffer, suffer, suffer.
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  Does that make sense?
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  Yeah.
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  Almost like the only thing that matters is this outside view of the two of you, making
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  sure everybody thinks it's a happy shining union.
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  Right?
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  You know?
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  Because you don't want anybody else to know the roots of what's going on.
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  We talked, I think in the last episode, about how women were not, back in Bible times, women
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  weren't considered expert testimony or something like that.
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  If a woman went to court in Bible times, her testimony would not be even part of the consideration.
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  And that's kind of what it is for women in the church, too.
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  Particularly married women in the church.
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  If I come to the authorities with something that's happened to me, and this happened to
• 12:00
  me, if I come to them with something, they ask, well, how does your husband feel about
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  it?
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  What are his thoughts on the matter?
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  How does he want to handle things?
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  Because he's your keeper.
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  Right.
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  And I've talked about this before, but it still feels the same.
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  Your testimony won't be taken seriously.
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  Your words, your thoughts, your experiences matter a little bit less than his.
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  Does that make sense?
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  Yeah.
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  Okay.
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  So, that's kind of the expectation.
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  And you don't know that until after you get in the club.
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  I think when you're single, and I might be totally off, but I think when you're single,
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  if you aren't around a lot of older married Christian women, it's kind of like, well yeah,
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  from afar, that looks pretty good, right?
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  It doesn't look suffering.
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  And when you bring up, yeah, things are really tough when you do open up to someone, it's
• 12:55
  like, well, God didn't mean for you to be happy.
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  I've heard that so many times in church from sermons.
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  Being a Christian means to suffer.
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  And that is so disheartening.
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  I feel maybe I'm speaking out of turn, but I feel like just because you're a Christian
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  does not automatically mean suffer.
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  I think being a human, in general, you are going to go through pain, grief, loss, all
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  kinds of the spectrum of, you know, humanness.
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  But not just specifically because you're a Christian.
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  Right.
• 13:33
  Well, I think we look at the where that seems to come from for me is you look at a lot of
• 13:38
  the disciples were martyred after Jesus died.
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  And so people will take that and they're like, well, Jesus doesn't want you to be happy.
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  Look, these guys all died.
• 13:48
  Right.
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  But yes, they suffered and were martyred for their faith.
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  But there were a lot of other Christians that, you know, weren't.
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  There were a lot of non-Christian people that also suffered and died.
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  I don't think it's an inherent thing in Christianity.
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  Suffer and be miserable, but also join our church.
• 14:07
  I think God wants us to be joyful.
• 14:09
  Well, that's the thing is you'll hear the difference.
• 14:12
  And that's one of the things in my notes as well is that God isn't interested in your
• 14:17
  happiness.
• 14:18
  You have to find internal joy that surpasses all understanding.
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  And then once you have that internal joy that only comes from the Holy Spirit, you'll be
• 14:28
  at peace.
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  It won't matter what happens around you.
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  It doesn't matter if they're suffering and death and whatever.
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  You're joyful.
• 14:34
  So you're fine because the Holy Spirit has given that to you.
• 14:38
  And I think there's some validity in that.
• 14:40
  Yeah, I think the Holy Spirit can give you a peacefulness and a sense of belonging, of
• 14:50
  more joyfulness.
• 14:51
  But that doesn't, first of all, it doesn't stop you from experiencing suffering.
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  And second of all, happiness is still good.
• 15:01
  It's still okay to want to be happy.
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  It's still okay to want to be happy in your marriage, to want to be happy with your kids,
• 15:08
  to want to go out and enjoy your life.
• 15:10
  It's okay.
• 15:12
  If you want to fight for happiness, not just the internal joy that surpasses all understanding,
• 15:20
  which is good, but if you also want to be happy and have happy circumstances, that's
• 15:25
  okay.
• 15:26
  And I feel like when you say that, it feels almost blasphemous if you're used to a Christian
• 15:31
  church, which is very sad.
• 15:34
  But those are the things that I have heard.
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  Now my biggest question as I was writing this was, do we say this to the husbands?
• 15:42
  I don't know, I don't have one.
• 15:47
  I mean, I don't think I've ever heard this said to men.
• 15:52
  Now again, I'm not a man, correct me if I'm wrong.
• 15:55
  But I don't think husbands have heard in their, I don't know, small groups that are only men,
• 16:02
  or their journeys that are only for masculine.
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  I don't think that they are hearing, well, marriage is about suffering sometimes.
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  I don't think they're hearing you might not be happy.
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  Because in my experiences in church, the men, the husbands are told, your wives are to submit
• 16:26
  to you.
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  Your happiness should be her greatest pursuit.
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  Your dreams should be upheld more than hers.
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  That's my experience of what's been told to husbands.
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  You are the end all be all.
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  You are the beginning to her end.
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  How great is that for you?
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  Mary Katz I mean, it sounds like a happy situation to
• 16:47
  me.
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  Doesn't sound too suffering.
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  Other than you have to die for her.
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  That's another story.
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  Mary Katz That's a whole other thing.
• 16:58
  But that's really the one expectation of husbands, and I'll read some of the bad marriage advice
• 17:02
  in just a minute.
• 17:04
  But I think that is the one expectation of husbands that gets held up is you need to
• 17:08
  be willing to die for your wife, because that's considered a masculine pursuit.
• 17:12
  Oh, you have to be strong enough to die for her.
• 17:16
  I think my when I mimic men, my voice gets, I don't think it gets deeper.
• 17:21
  I think it just gets weirder.
• 17:22
  Just a little bit more respite.
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  But what a stupid thing.
• 17:30
  You have to be willing to die for her.
• 17:32
  Okay, sure.
• 17:33
  But how often is that being asked of you?
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  How often are you being asked to live for her?
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  On a day to day basis, is a bus coming at her and you've got to shove her out of the
• 17:42
  way?
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  No, if a bus is coming at me in the middle of the street, let it come.
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  But on the flip side, her submitting to you and letting you have your way and whatever
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  you feel like and making your dinner every day and bringing your slippers when you get
• 17:58
  home from work, that happens every day.
• 18:01
  That's her being in service to you every moment of every day, where you're apparently only
• 18:06
  being asked, in theory, one time, you can only die the one time, unless you're in Bree's
• 18:11
  book, which is called The Seven and a Half Deaths of Something.
• 18:13
  Oh, yeah, I haven't started that yet.
• 18:16
  Seven and a half deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle.
• 18:19
  We can't recommend it though, she hasn't read it.
• 18:21
  It could be terrible.
• 18:22
  Okay, and so once you get married, and I'm going to read bad marriage advice in a little
• 18:25
  bit because it's funny, even though it's really depressing.
• 18:29
  But I wanted to go through a couple more things first.
• 18:31
  So once you get married in the church, you almost think like, okay, I did my thing.
• 18:36
  I did the thing I was supposed to do.
• 18:38
  I fulfilled God's calling for me, huzzah.
• 18:43
  But there's always more for women.
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  I think for men, you get through it, you get through marriage, and it's like, okay, you're
• 18:52
  just cruise.
• 18:54
  I guess be a good husband, but also there's not that much of an expectation on you after
• 18:58
  that point.
• 18:59
  I do think men are still expected to get married in the church, but after that, you're pretty
• 19:05
  much good.
• 19:07
  For women, it's, when are you going to have a baby?
• 19:13
  And it is the moment that you say, I do.
• 19:17
  Okay, now you're not supposed to have babies before marriage, according to the church,
• 19:22
  but you are supposed to get on it the moment that you get married.
• 19:27
  Whoa.
• 19:28
  I'm not even kidding.
• 19:29
  And the inappropriate questions.
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  Yeah.
• 19:32
  Yeah.
• 19:33
  Are you trying for a baby?
• 19:36
  What methods are you using?
• 19:37
  Let me give you some advice on the best ways to have a baby.
• 19:42
  I did this and I had a boy.
• 19:45
  The inappropriateness.
• 19:47
  I don't want to tell you that we are or are not trying for a baby.
• 19:51
  That's uncomfortable.
• 19:52
  You don't need that information.
• 19:53
  I don't want you sitting at home thinking about that.
• 19:57
  No, thank you.
• 19:59
  No, stop asking that people.
• 20:02
  When someone is pregnant, when, okay, wait till they're nine months pregnant before you
• 20:07
  say a word.
• 20:08
  If they haven't said anything.
• 20:10
  That baby had better be cruising out of them before you comment.
• 20:14
  But just don't say anything.
• 20:16
  Just don't comment because there are a million reasons why someone might not be having a
• 20:21
  baby, whether it's by choice because they simply don't want, because they're 21 and
• 20:26
  still in college perhaps, or whether it's because they can't have babies, whatever the
• 20:32
  reason.
• 20:33
  But you are expected to have kids.
• 20:35
  And then you have your first baby and you think, oh, good.
• 20:38
  I did the things.
• 20:39
  I did all the things.
• 20:40
  I did the things again.
• 20:41
  Yeah.
• 20:42
  Checked all the boxes.
• 20:43
  Good to go.
• 20:44
  When are you going to have your next baby?
• 20:47
  And then when are you going to have your next baby?
• 20:49
  And then are you going to homeschool them?
• 20:51
  Because you know that public schools, they are indoctrinating our children with who knows
• 20:55
  what.
• 20:56
  God has been taken out of our schools.
• 20:58
  And that's, I could do five episodes on that.
• 21:01
  But there's all of these expectations is my point.
• 21:06
  Do the next thing.
• 21:07
  Do the next thing.
• 21:08
  You're not holy enough until you have five kids and you buy a giant 15 passenger van
• 21:14
  and put all the little person stickers on the back.
• 21:17
  With Mickey heads.
• 21:18
  Preferably with Mickey heads.
• 21:20
  Just to show how many people you have.
• 21:22
  And once you have 12 of them, you can't afford to go to Disney anyway.
• 21:25
  So you put the Mickey heads to make yourself feel better.
• 21:27
  And you just have to constantly keep going and striving.
• 21:33
  And there's never an end to the expectations.
• 21:36
  You've never fulfilled them all.
• 21:39
  Because if you don't have the five kids, it's, oh you would have really enjoyed having more.
• 21:47
  Or if you have all girls, well don't you want to try for a boy?
• 21:50
  Or the flip is true.
• 21:53
  And if you put them in public school, my daughter is in public school and there's always that
• 21:58
  like, oh you have her in public school?
• 22:02
  Was there not a good Christian school nearby?
• 22:05
  Have you thought about homeschooling?
• 22:10
  It's just nothing you do feels like it's ever good enough.
• 22:13
  And it's so much more painful when that comes in the church.
• 22:19
  Because I know that these expectations get put on non-Christian women too.
• 22:23
  Oh absolutely, I think it's just part of the female experience.
• 22:27
  But when it comes from your church, it feels like this is not society's expectation of
• 22:33
  me, which at the very least I can say, well who cares about society?
• 22:37
  This is now God's expectation of me?
• 22:40
  Pop out all the babies, homeschool them, make homemade dinners every night, and also probably
• 22:47
  ideally be a social media influencer and have blonde hair.
• 22:50
  That's kind of the vibe, right?
• 22:51
  But it never ends.
• 22:54
  So let's see.
• 22:55
  The next thing.
• 22:56
  Having a job is a negative.
• 23:01
  And these are all, I'm just going through a list of expectations that have been put
• 23:04
  on me and that I know are being put on other women.
• 23:08
  When you are married in the church, when Brie talked in our Singleness episode about the
• 23:15
  expectation of getting a job just until you get married.
• 23:18
  As a placeholder.
• 23:21
  Exactly.
• 23:22
  It's the continuation of that.
• 23:24
  Once you get married, your ideal situation is to quit your job and be a stay at home
• 23:31
  parent.
• 23:32
  Now there's nothing wrong with that.
• 23:33
  If that is your choice as the woman or as the stay at home parent, if that's your choice,
• 23:39
  great, do your thing.
• 23:40
  Yeah, because there's tons of reasons why people choose to do that.
• 23:43
  Absolutely.
• 23:44
  I've been a stay at home parent.
• 23:45
  The first five years of my daughter's life I was a stay at home parent because we couldn't,
• 23:51
  not really, honestly for me it was not because I necessarily wanted that in life, but because
• 23:57
  we couldn't afford childcare.
• 23:59
  Childcare is so crazy expensive.
• 24:01
  That's insane.
• 24:02
  And what I was making while I was pregnant literally wouldn't have paid for childcare.
• 24:06
  So it just didn't make sense.
• 24:07
  So I've been a stay at home parent.
• 24:09
  I can sympathize with it.
• 24:11
  I feel all of those expectations on my shoulders.
• 24:16
  But the thought that as a woman your ideal situation is to be a wife and mother, and
• 24:21
  we've talked about this in countless episodes, is really painful.
• 24:25
  I think it's super painful because if you want anything outside of that, if you want
• 24:32
  to have a job, it's like, oh, she has to have a job.
• 24:35
  That's really sad for her.
• 24:36
  Because it's almost like your personal well-being disappears.
• 24:41
  It doesn't matter.
• 24:42
  You're not a person anymore.
• 24:45
  You're a wife and mother.
• 24:47
  Your needs are not important.
• 24:50
  Your needs will not be met.
• 24:51
  Don't expect that they will be met.
• 24:54
  And that's part of that club that we talked about of married women that is so negative.
• 25:01
  First of all, I think the expectation is to kind of hate on your husband when you're in
• 25:05
  that married club.
• 25:06
  My mom used to talk about this.
• 25:07
  About how when she would go to, there was this group called Mops.
• 25:12
  I don't know if it's still a thing or not.
• 25:13
  It's a horrible name.
• 25:14
  Isn't it?
• 25:15
  Oh my gosh.
• 25:16
  I don't know what it stood for, moms or parents.
• 25:25
  I would have to look it up.
• 25:26
  I have no idea what it stood for.
• 25:27
  But it was a group, and this was a many different churches did the Mops groups.
• 25:32
  So you guys might remember this as well.
• 25:34
  But it was a group of moms that would bring their kids together usually at the church.
• 25:38
  And the kids would play and the moms would, I don't know, do crafts and drink tea.
• 25:42
  I don't know what they did.
• 25:45
  But they would sit and chat while their kids played.
• 25:48
  And I remember my mom saying that there was so much negativity in those groups about the
• 25:54
  husbands and the kids.
• 25:57
  And that her goal was always to not participate in that because she liked her husband and
• 26:01
  she liked her kids.
• 26:03
  But I think where that comes from is your needs not being met.
• 26:07
  When your partner is meeting none of your personal needs, it's all about what you can
• 26:14
  do for them.
• 26:16
  And there's no reciprocation of what they can do for you.
• 26:20
  I mean, that sounds like a bad time.
• 26:23
  How often are women just getting erased?
• 26:26
  I mean, for heaven's sakes, your name is replaced.
• 26:31
  You're no longer Alyssa, your mom.
• 26:33
  Or you lose your last name.
• 26:38
  And that's totally a personal choice, but it's one of those throwbacks to I own you
• 26:46
  now.
• 26:48
  What I think would be great for the world as a whole is when you start a new family,
• 26:53
  if you want to, you just pick a whole new name.
• 26:58
  Whatever it is that you want, you pick a whole new name and you start your family with that
• 27:01
  whole new last name and then your kids do the same.
• 27:05
  The Broccolis.
• 27:06
  Brianna Broccoli.
• 27:09
  I love it.
• 27:10
  These are my kids, my little sprouts.
• 27:14
  Yeah, that sounds right.
• 27:18
  You should do that one.
• 27:21
  I do, should I decide to have any children, they will all be named after cheese.
• 27:26
  I think it's hilarious.
• 27:28
  Like Colby, come on.
• 27:29
  Jack, come on.
• 27:30
  You need a real weird one in there though.
• 27:35
  This is my youngest man, Chago.
• 27:41
  I think too, if you don't enthusiastically go after all these things, husband, kids,
• 27:50
  lack of job, homeschool, check off all of the boxes, as though you are thrilled about
• 27:56
  it every moment, there's a lot of judgment in that too.
• 27:59
  Even if you've checked off the boxes.
• 28:02
  You have to do it with a smile on your face.
• 28:04
  Now you don't need to expect to be happy, but you better look happy.
• 28:07
  Because so often, like I said before, it's all about the outward appearance.
• 28:14
  That's the only thing that matters.
• 28:15
  It doesn't matter if you can actually afford that car, but you should be driving a nice
• 28:19
  car because we want the people of the church to look in awe of you.
• 28:26
  It doesn't matter if you're actually happy as long as you look happy.
• 28:30
  Cut the little Joker smile into your face and you'll be good to go.
• 28:34
  I think it's, I don't know, it's just so difficult because when you're single, I think one of
• 28:40
  the biggest struggles I heard you mention in the last episode was not being talked to
• 28:44
  in church.
• 28:46
  Not feeling like the sermons were speaking to you.
• 28:49
  And when you get married, I think you think they're going to be talking to me now.
• 28:54
  It's going to be supportive of me now.
• 28:57
  You don't really think of people outside of your bubble, which is a problem in itself.
• 29:00
  But at least now they're going to be talking to me.
• 29:03
  The reality is they're not talking to married women.
• 29:07
  They're talking at married women.
• 29:11
  Here's what you need to do.
• 29:14
  Here's who you need to be.
• 29:17
  Here's your checklist.
• 29:19
  Don't think about anything else.
• 29:21
  Don't do anything else.
• 29:24
  Don't talk about doing anything else.
• 29:26
  Don't have dreams, have his dreams.
• 29:28
  Don't have a plan for your future because you've got to just sort of follow around wherever
• 29:33
  his plan for his little future is.
• 29:36
  And if that's move 45 times, then you better be happy about that.
• 29:42
  And if that's living on a homestead in Alaska, you better be thrilled.
• 29:47
  I will never be living in a homestead in Alaska.
• 29:54
  Not ever, not no way, no how.
• 29:56
  And if for some weird reason you find me there, call 911.
• 30:00
  I've been abducted.
• 30:03
  I've lost my mind.
• 30:04
  All right, I'll make a note.
• 30:07
  One of the things I was thinking about, this made me think of that.
• 30:10
  So Nathan and I have been watching Alone lately.
• 30:14
  No one is alone.
• 30:17
  Not that one.
• 30:19
  So this show, if you haven't seen it, I think it's on Disney Plus.
• 30:23
  They send out like 10 people, 10-ish people.
• 30:27
  It's essentially a game show, but harder.
• 30:29
  So much harder.
• 30:31
  They put them all in places, usually in really cold places, and they just leave them there.
• 30:37
  They are sent with their own camera equipment.
• 30:40
  They're completely alone.
• 30:41
  The only time they see other people is when the medical crew comes out to check them and
• 30:46
  make sure they haven't died.
• 30:47
  Or they tap out.
• 30:48
  Yeah, and that's it.
• 30:49
  They are alone.
• 30:50
  They have to get their own food.
• 30:52
  They have to build their own shelter in the Arctic most of the time.
• 30:55
  They can only bring like 10 things with them.
• 30:59
  It's fascinating, especially for someone who hates the outdoors passionately.
• 31:04
  Fascinating.
• 31:05
  But there was this woman on there.
• 31:09
  So they get memory cards to put in their cameras, right?
• 31:12
  She had one memory card that she didn't want to give to the production crew.
• 31:16
  Now they made a note of this on the screen.
• 31:20
  She didn't want to give it to the production crew because she basically kept it as like
• 31:25
  a diary almost to her significant other.
• 31:29
  However, the rules apparently stated that she had to give all of the memory cards to
• 31:34
  them and then they aired it because of course they did.
• 31:39
  And what broke my heart is she's sitting there.
• 31:42
  Now her personality up until this point has been happy, bubbly, everything's great.
• 31:47
  It's wonderful.
• 31:48
  It's gonna be amazing.
• 31:50
  And then she's sitting in her shelter recording this to her boyfriend and she's sobbing and
• 31:57
  she's like, I can't show this to them because they're gonna exploit it as a weakness.
• 32:04
  They're gonna look at this and they're gonna say I'm weak so I have to be happy.
• 32:07
  I have to be ready to go every moment.
• 32:10
  I have to be so big and strong, stronger than the men.
• 32:13
  I have to be so intense because otherwise they're gonna show this and I'm gonna look
• 32:18
  weak and they're gonna say women are weak.
• 32:23
  And they did show it.
• 32:26
  But the rest of the time, all of the other videos, she has that personality.
• 32:30
  This happy, peppy personality.
• 32:33
  And it broke my heart because she felt that she had to do that.
• 32:35
  But I think with Christian women in particular, we don't even have that partner necessarily.
• 32:41
  I shouldn't say we.
• 32:42
  My husband is wonderful and I can break down with him at any time.
• 32:45
  I do.
• 32:46
  Many times.
• 32:47
  Break it down now.
• 32:50
  Thank you.
• 32:54
  But for a lot of Christian women, you're supposed to be that strong.
• 32:59
  Now not physically strong.
• 33:00
  Don't be physically strong because that's intimidating to the men.
• 33:03
  I was just gonna say don't intimidate them.
• 33:05
  But emotionally, you have to be strong and on it all the time and never break down to
• 33:11
  anyone ever ever because then your husband will say, ugh, you're just too emotional for
• 33:18
  me.
• 33:19
  It's just so much work.
• 33:21
  Can't you be more like a man?
• 33:23
  I just don't understand these emotions.
• 33:26
  You have to be strong but you can't be too strong.
• 33:29
  You have to cry when it's appropriate because it's feminine but not too much.
• 33:33
  Because it makes them uncomfy.
• 33:37
  There's all these expectations and it's just heartbreaking.
• 33:40
  And I wish for women at least that they're partner.
• 33:46
  And you know some Christian marriages, I'm not saying every Christian marriage is like
• 33:48
  this, I'm just saying that that's almost the expectation.
• 33:53
  Suffer.
• 33:55
  Suffer alone.
• 33:56
  Suffer in quiet.
• 33:58
  You can suffer to God I guess if you want to but don't be too annoying because God really
• 34:02
  doesn't want to hear that.
• 34:04
  And also if you dwell on it, then that's gonna make you more unhappy.
• 34:08
  So don't dwell on it, push it down, stomp it down.
• 34:14
  Turn it off.
• 34:15
  Switch.
• 34:16
  I have been watching this ex-Mormon content creator.
• 34:23
  I think it's driving everyone in the house crazy.
• 34:25
  I watch her all the time.
• 34:27
  I'm doing a deep dive into Mormonism.
• 34:29
  Not because I want to join but because I'm fascinated.
• 34:33
  And I do unfortunately see a lot of similarities in the way women are treated there and in
• 34:40
  the very conservative Christian church.
• 34:42
  Like the Duggars, they're not Mormons, they are-
• 34:44
  IBLP.
• 34:45
  Yeah.
• 34:46
  It sounds like you have a pooping problem.
• 34:50
  Okay, so let's go into some of the advice.
• 34:54
  The advice?
• 34:55
  Oh the advice that you get.
• 34:57
  So one of the people that we talk about a lot is Sheila Ray Gregoire and she is just
• 35:05
  a treasure.
• 35:06
  Hi Sheila.
• 35:07
  She has a podcast also with her daughter and it's actually linked.
• 35:16
  We have it in our recommended podcast so if you are on really any of our outlets it should
• 35:23
  be linked and you should be able to see it recommended.
• 35:26
  And they talk about essentially freeing women from this concept of submission from the expectation
• 35:33
  that their marriages are going to suck.
• 35:35
  So one of the things that she does, she is so incredibly smart.
• 35:38
  Like when you read her stuff, holy crap, I'm in awe.
• 35:43
  I'm overwhelmed.
• 35:44
  Do you hear that Sheila?
• 35:46
  She loves you.
• 35:48
  But one of the things that she does is these little snippets and she says, fixed it for
• 35:53
  you.
• 35:54
  So she pulls quotes from a lot of Christian marriage books but also from many different
• 36:01
  places and she writes out the quote and then she crosses it all out and she says, fixed
• 36:06
  it for you and so she fixes it.
• 36:08
  So I'm going to read a couple of those and then I'm going to read some things from other
• 36:10
  places as well.
• 36:11
  So this one, Bre are you prepared to be sad about life?
• 36:17
  Always am.
• 36:18
  Audienz are you prepared to be sad about life?
• 36:20
  Life is about suffering, let's go.
• 36:23
  So this is from, I'm going to mispronounce his last name but it's Owens Drahan, I think,
• 36:31
  who is the former president of the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and also
• 36:36
  a professor of theology at Grace Bible Theological Seminary.
• 36:40
  So if you want to be sad about how our young people are being taught, be prepared.
• 36:45
  Fantastic.
• 36:46
  So it says, this is from Twitter, he posted this on Twitter in 2022.
• 36:51
  God has staked everything on men.
• 36:55
  Strong men are the foundation of a strong marriage.
• 36:58
  Strong men are the foundation of a strong home.
• 37:01
  Strong men are the foundation of a strong church.
• 37:04
  Strong men are the foundation of a strong society.
• 37:07
  God has staked everything on men.
• 37:11
  So interesting, why did he even create women?
• 37:14
  I think in this view of things, God created women to make babies.
• 37:18
  But I mean that's really it.
• 37:20
  Our highest calling.
• 37:22
  So Sheila fixes it.
• 37:23
  I'm not going to read all of her fixes but that one's so bad, we have to fix it.
• 37:28
  So Sheila says, for no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is
• 37:35
  Christ Jesus.
• 37:37
  The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone.
• 37:41
  Thank you Sheila.
• 37:42
  Thank you Sheila.
• 37:43
  Beautiful, loved it.
• 37:45
  Made me happy inside.
• 37:47
  I think men forget that God doesn't need them.
• 37:52
  God doesn't need any of us to make him look any better, to build him up any, like he doesn't
• 37:58
  need any of us.
• 37:59
  You're lucky to be alive.
• 38:01
  You were birthed from a woman.
• 38:04
  That's the reality.
• 38:05
  Yeah.
• 38:06
  Quit making yourself so great, you're not so great.
• 38:09
  I think patriarchy in the church is the easiest way to make yourself feel like God without
• 38:15
  saying it because that would be blasphemy.
• 38:19
  But you are the Lord of your home.
• 38:22
  We actually got a comment on TikTok.
• 38:26
  I literally forgot what it was called briefly on TikTok.
• 38:29
  I could sing the song for you.
• 38:32
  Please don't.
• 38:33
  And she said something about male headship and she in parentheses called it lordship.
• 38:40
  And that was just like, that hit me hard.
• 38:42
  It's like, wow, that's what it is.
• 38:45
  It's becoming the Lord of your space.
• 38:49
  You are the most important person and everyone in your space needs to worship you.
• 38:55
  Which is such the opposite of what is being taught to women.
• 38:57
  Women are like, you need to humble yourself.
• 39:00
  You know, very demure, very mindful.
• 39:05
  You know, you don't want to make anybody else uncomfortable.
• 39:10
  You don't want to, yeah, you don't want to make waves.
• 39:15
  That is never being told to a man.
• 39:17
  So this one comes from Stormy O Martian who wrote Kylie's Kid.
• 39:25
  No who wrote the power of a praying wife.
• 39:29
  And if you want to be sad again, if you're prepared for that, this book has sold over
• 39:34
  eight million copies.
• 39:35
  Oh no.
• 39:36
  So the original quote is when you are married, there will always be two areas of that will
• 39:41
  ultimately be your responsibility, home and children.
• 39:48
  On top of all this, you will also be expected to be sexually appealing, a good cook, a great
• 39:53
  mother and physically, emotionally and spiritually fit.
• 39:56
  Now I want to point out that that sounds like sarcasm and it's sarcasm when it comes out
• 40:02
  of my mouth, but it's not in the book.
• 40:06
  This is really something that she says.
• 40:08
  This is really actually marriage advice that women are getting in the church.
• 40:13
  This is the power of a praying wife.
• 40:16
  That's what the book is called.
• 40:17
  So apparently the only power you have as a wife is to take care of your home, to take
• 40:24
  care of your kids, but not to teach your sons once they reach a certain age because you're
• 40:27
  a woman and you can't teach men.
• 40:30
  And also to be a good cook, sexually appealing, a great mother, physically, emotionally and
• 40:36
  spiritually fit, you better just be all the things.
• 40:39
  Zero expectations on him.
• 40:41
  All you.
• 40:42
  My gosh.
• 40:44
  This is some of the advice that women are getting.
• 40:46
  I'm going to read one more from Sheila and you can find all of these on her Facebook
• 40:50
  page, but you can also find them.
• 40:51
  She made like a little book, like a digital download book.
• 40:54
  That's what I'm reading from right now and you can find that on her website and it's
• 40:57
  got all of them and then it goes into why she corrected them the way that she did and
• 41:03
  the verses that she used to correct them the way that she did.
• 41:06
  So she's not just correcting them just based on whatever ideas pop into her head.
• 41:11
  She's using it biblical.
• 41:12
  Right.
• 41:13
  Exactly.
• 41:14
  Unlike what these people are doing.
• 41:16
  Tell me where in the Bible it says I have to be sexually appealing all the time and
• 41:20
  a good cook.
• 41:21
  Literally, absolutely nowhere.
• 41:24
  The interesting thing too is biblical women, if you think of Abraham's wife, Sarah, they
• 41:30
  had servants.
• 41:31
  She wasn't cooking.
• 41:33
  She wasn't cooking.
• 41:36
  So the last one that I'm going to read from Sheila is from William P Farley, who was a
• 41:42
  retired pastor and also contributed to the Gospel Coalition website and the Desiring
• 41:49
  God website.
• 41:50
  So he's got some influence there and it says, now this is advice in theory to husbands,
• 41:56
  right?
• 41:57
  Abraham humbly loves a menopausal or premenstrual wife.
• 42:02
  His behavior says Christ loves the church even though she is sinful.
• 42:06
  What?
• 42:07
  His behavior tells his children Christ loves his bride even when she is unattractive.
• 42:13
  What?
• 42:14
  It says that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ, even our feelings.
• 42:21
  What?
• 42:22
  This is from the book called Gospel Powered Parenting.
• 42:25
  Oh my gosh.
• 42:28
  You didn't think it was going to get worse, did you?
• 42:30
  Did you?
• 42:31
  What if I looked at him and I was just like, God hates you because you're ugly.
• 42:37
  But I love you.
• 42:38
  You're balding and me loving you still is an example of how Christ loved the church.
• 42:43
  Okay.
• 42:44
  You have to take that blue pill and that's a sin.
• 42:51
  I'm going to read Sheetless Fixing of this one because it hurts me in my soul.
• 42:56
  Oh my gosh, that's insane.
• 42:58
  I know.
• 42:59
  So she says, this is her crossing out certain things and putting in different words, when
• 43:03
  a husband humbly loves a menopausal or premenstrual wife.
• 43:07
  Also premenstrual, are we talking about before she starts her period?
• 43:10
  So are we marrying children?
• 43:11
  What are we talking about here?
• 43:13
  I do not know.
• 43:14
  His behavior is merely what any decent human being would do.
• 43:18
  His behavior tells his children, stop moaning about women's natural cycles.
• 43:23
  It says that when your wife is uncomfortable, her needs matter.
• 43:26
  Thank you, Sheila.
• 43:29
  Thank you, Sheila.
• 43:30
  I appreciate you.
• 43:32
  Do men think that periods are something that God didn't create?
• 43:36
  That women were just like, how can I inconvenience myself even more?
• 43:40
  I love to bleed.
• 43:41
  I love to bleed once a month and then before that week of me constantly bleeding, I love
• 43:47
  to just also be in pain.
• 43:49
  It's a great time.
• 43:51
  It's just something I like to punish myself with.
• 43:55
  So some of the other ones, and this was from my own research and looking up some things
• 44:01
  and you can research.
• 44:04
  Don't do this.
• 44:05
  Women out there, don't research this.
• 44:08
  I'm a women folk.
• 44:09
  I want you to be informed and I want you to double check the things that we say because
• 44:15
  that's important.
• 44:16
  However, this will make you sad.
• 44:18
  I would say before you dive into the internet and look at a book from some old pastor or
• 44:24
  some, you know, even a Christian woman.
• 44:27
  Oh, we're about to go there.
• 44:29
  Look to your Bible first.
• 44:32
  Make sure that you're feeling strong and that you're not ready to be influenced by these
• 44:37
  people.
• 44:39
  There is a blog slash website and it's called the transformed wife and my mom has followed
• 44:46
  them for a while out of irony.
• 44:49
  I think she's like, I just like to watch, watch the train wreck.
• 44:53
  Mom is a little dark.
• 44:55
  She is a little bit.
• 44:57
  At least we haven't had to say sorry mom so far this episode.
• 45:00
  I may have, I maybe should have maybe, but we didn't.
• 45:04
  Sorry mom.
• 45:07
  So it's, it's a train wreck.
• 45:09
  I don't know how else to describe it.
• 45:11
  It's all about being like a submissive wife to the point of absolute abuse.
• 45:16
  It's horrifying and I hate it, but I read a blog on her website because I was feeling
• 45:22
  masochistic apparently.
• 45:23
  It said one of the things that she said, and I'm not going to quote a lot of what she says
• 45:29
  because it's just hurtful, but one of the things that she says is don't nag, mention
• 45:33
  it once then pray.
• 45:36
  So the blog that this comes from is about how naggy women are because that's just what
• 45:42
  gets put on women all the time, right?
• 45:44
  Put on wives.
• 45:46
  And she says, don't nag your husband about the things that he's supposed to be doing,
• 45:52
  I guess.
• 45:53
  He's not supposed to be an equal partner.
• 45:54
  So it is fine.
• 45:55
  So like, let's say he doesn't take out the trash because that's the one and only household
• 46:01
  job that it's acceptable for a man to do.
• 46:04
  Let's say he doesn't do that.
• 46:06
  Don't nag him about it.
• 46:08
  Mention it one time and if he chooses not to, you take out the trash.
• 46:13
  He's got too much else on his mind.
• 46:15
  He doesn't need you being annoying in his ear.
• 46:18
  Just take on his job too.
• 46:21
  In addition to the fact that you haven't sat down all day, take on his job also.
• 46:28
  That to me just says, don't expect anything of your husband.
• 46:32
  Don't just figure it out all on your own.
• 46:34
  Yep.
• 46:35
  Well, that's pretty much her blog.
• 46:36
  That's pretty much the whole thing.
• 46:38
  So I read some of the comments because I thought, surely, surely the feminists have descended,
• 46:43
  right?
• 46:44
  So here are some of the comments that I want to cry over.
• 46:49
  The first one is, there is such a freedom in trusting God and simply submitting to your
• 46:54
  husband.
• 46:55
  Have we forgotten what freedom means?
• 46:59
  We have fully, fully let that aside.
• 47:01
  I would like for her to have a definition for me.
• 47:04
  Because submission and freedom, I feel like do not go hand in hand.
• 47:10
  Certainly not submission to a person.
• 47:11
  No.
• 47:12
  Because here's the deal.
• 47:13
  As Christians, we talk about the freedom of obeying God, right?
• 47:18
  And that there is a certain sense of peace and comfort in allowing God to guide your
• 47:25
  steps.
• 47:26
  But remember that God is flawless.
• 47:28
  God is God?
• 47:30
  Yeah, God is the creator of the universe.
• 47:32
  God is perfect.
• 47:34
  And your husband is not.
• 47:37
  I'm sorry, guys.
• 47:38
  He's not.
• 47:39
  He's just not.
• 47:40
  I don't know if any of the men out there have been told this lately.
• 47:42
  You're not perfect.
• 47:45
  And in submitting to an imperfect being, so many women are like, if you would just let
• 47:52
  go, just let go and just submit.
• 47:54
  It's like, what is it that, from Beauty and the Beast, what is it that Stockholm Syndrome?
• 47:59
  It's like Stockholm Syndrome.
• 48:02
  If you just let go and just follow along, let go of all your will and hopes and desires,
• 48:08
  dreams, and just follow along with this imperfect person who's leading you left and right and
• 48:14
  doesn't know where the crap he's going.
• 48:15
  I guess in some ways, you could think you have two choices as a stereotypical Christian
• 48:23
  woman.
• 48:24
  You can either fight it and then not fulfill what you think your greatest calling is as
• 48:30
  a woman.
• 48:31
  Or you could just, I guess, just submit and live your life in misery.
• 48:38
  And maybe that is easier for some people, but I just can't stand behind it.
• 48:43
  I think that's why you see women leaving the churches in droves, because what a horrible
• 48:49
  choice to have to make.
• 48:51
  You either get to fail God or you get to lose yourself.
• 48:56
  Those are your two choices.
• 48:59
  In saying all of this, I don't know, if you go back and listen to other episodes, we make
• 49:03
  it pretty clear though, this is not what God actually expects of women.
• 49:06
  Biblically, this is not true.
• 49:09
  None of this is the truth of what God wants for you.
• 49:12
  We're at 53 minutes, so I don't have time to go into all of the verses, but please do
• 49:16
  go back and listen to especially our submission series where we go through what God's actual
• 49:22
  expectations of women are and why we can really throw aside this expectation of submission
• 49:28
  to our husbands and live in that freedom from God, that God gave us, because God values
• 49:35
  you as an individual, not just as a wife.
• 49:39
  I'm just going to go into one more because we are nearing the end of what I feel like
• 49:49
  editing.
• 49:53
  There's a book from the 70s, and there are a lot of modern books on this too.
• 49:58
  This is not an old topic, but this is just one that I found that I just thought was hilarious.
• 50:03
  I found it from a comment on the transformed wife.
• 50:07
  The book is called Me, Obey Him, and I do it with the inflections because I think it's
• 50:13
  funny.
• 50:14
  It's about how independent women should stop, basically.
• 50:23
  Knock it off.
• 50:24
  Okay.
• 50:25
  I've had enough of you.
• 50:26
  A review of this book... Now, I have not read this book, but I did some research on
• 50:31
  the book itself.
• 50:32
  Again, it's really depressing, but a review of this book on Amazon says, the peace, joy,
• 50:38
  and rest of being a woman, just as God designed, was such a blessing to me.
• 50:42
  A very independent thinking woman in 1976.
• 50:46
  I've bought this book for every young woman I love upon learning they were planning to
• 50:49
  marry.
• 50:50
  It gets harder and harder to find, but I've bought three in the last five years, and I
• 50:53
  plan to continue gifting this book to prospective brides that I love.
• 50:57
  I'm going to go with brides that you actually hate, but she didn't say that.
• 51:01
  Misery loves company.
• 51:03
  I think once you decide that this is the right lifestyle for you, submission, setting aside
• 51:09
  your own hopes and dreams, this very dim, you're quiet, biblical woman, mindful... Once
• 51:18
  you decide that's for you, you need other women to make the same decision.
• 51:24
  To validate your choice.
• 51:27
  Even like Brie and I, and hopefully those of you listening as well, you guys can be
• 51:31
  in this club if you'd prefer.
• 51:33
  It's a better club.
• 51:34
  We'll bring snacks.
• 51:36
  We love Starbucks.
• 51:37
  We'll bring Starbucks.
• 51:40
  We are a threat to that, because we can look at the Bible as strong, smart, independent
• 51:47
  women and say, none of this is true.
• 51:51
  This is crap.
• 51:52
  And I have the power of the Holy Spirit behind me.
• 51:55
  Yeah.
• 51:56
  Like all of the Bible supports what we're saying.
• 52:00
  I was watching a TikTok today.
• 52:02
  I watched the TikTok this time.
• 52:04
  Oh my God.
• 52:05
  I didn't mention TikTok one time, other than that Demure comment.
• 52:11
  But I was watching it and the hashtags were like ex-Christian, ex-evangelicalist, ex-vangelical.
• 52:19
  That's what they used.
• 52:21
  And she was talking about how sexist the Bible is and how she just doesn't understand how
• 52:28
  any women can be in the Christian church, et cetera, et cetera.
• 52:31
  And like, look, I hear you and I want to validate that that is what's been taught to us, but
• 52:36
  that is not what the Bible says.
• 52:38
  That is not what the Bible is asking of you.
• 52:41
  That's what people have interpreted it to say.
• 52:45
  That's what translators have forced it to say.
• 52:48
  And I would hope that podcasts like this, podcasts like Sheila's podcast, books like
• 52:55
  Beth, like Beth Elson Barr's books, Sarah Bessie's book, Rachel Held-Evans books.
• 53:02
  If you guys want a whole episode on the books and podcasts that we love, I would love to
• 53:07
  do that.
• 53:08
  Let us know over on our TikTok.
• 53:11
  But this is not what God expects of you.
• 53:14
  It's what the church expects of you.
• 53:17
  And there's freedom in recognizing that.
• 53:21
  And in just saying we're done.
• 53:24
  Not necessarily done with the whole church.
• 53:27
  If that's the path that you're on, that's totally fine.
• 53:30
  But for me, it hasn't been walk away from the whole church because that's not what I
• 53:35
  feel like God is asking me to do.
• 53:38
  It's been walk away from the expectations and walk away loudly.
• 53:43
  I'm going to scream the whole way I'm walking away.
• 53:48
  Because if I sit there and I be quiet about these expectations being absolute crap, okay,
• 53:55
  they are just absolute crap.
• 53:58
  If I'm quiet about it, then that means that it's a little bit my fault that another woman
• 54:04
  decides to go through it.
• 54:06
  I think because the voices of everybody else are so loud, we have to be twice or three
• 54:12
  times as loud.
• 54:14
  Because there's not as many people saying that this isn't true.
• 54:19
  And you can be free and God wants you to be free.
• 54:22
  We got to be loud.
• 54:26
  God values you as a woman.
• 54:28
  He doesn't value you just as a wife and mother.
• 54:30
  Just when you become a wife and mother.
• 54:33
  Only when you become a submissive wife and mother.
• 54:35
  Only when you follow your husband's direction.
• 54:38
  That's not it.
• 54:39
  That's not it.
• 54:40
  Real quick, I wanted to go into...
• 54:44
  We're going to do a whole episode on this at some point.
• 54:45
  I just haven't gotten my brain around it yet.
• 54:50
  But the Proverbs 31 woman.
• 54:52
  I just wanted to talk about that for a second because I think that is a big part of where
• 54:59
  a lot of this comes from.
• 55:00
  Where this expectation of suffering and of just constant work and a lack of respect comes
• 55:07
  from.
• 55:09
  So the Proverbs 31 woman, it's a really long section.
• 55:14
  It's not just one verse.
• 55:15
  You can look it up.
• 55:17
  You can look it up anywhere.
• 55:18
  But I would recommend looking it up in the NLT translation and not the ESV.
• 55:23
  Just because the New Living Translation.
• 55:26
  The NIV is also great.
• 55:28
  Either of them is good.
• 55:30
  Also the message is good.
• 55:32
  So this is essentially...
• 55:33
  It starts off as who can find a virtuous woman for her price is far above rubies.
• 55:38
  And I believe this is the ESV that I'm looking at right now because I'm looking at Christianity.com.
• 55:43
  And it goes on a laundry list of what a good woman looks like.
• 55:52
  And this verse has been just absolutely a tool for men to destroy women.
• 56:01
  It's not what it's meant to be.
• 56:03
  That's not what it's supposed to be at all.
• 56:05
  But it absolutely has been used as that for generations.
• 56:10
  It talks about how she only does good.
• 56:14
  She works with her hands.
• 56:17
  She brings food.
• 56:18
  She gets up early in the morning to feed her household.
• 56:22
  And we kind of stop there as conservative Christians because then it goes on to talk
• 56:26
  about how she buys a field.
• 56:29
  And she is an entrepreneur.
• 56:31
  And she is bringing money into the household.
• 56:34
  And she is strong.
• 56:36
  And we forget that part.
• 56:38
  We don't remember that part because that doesn't fit with a patriarchal view of society.
• 56:45
  This verse is not an expectation of who you are supposed to be every moment of every day.
• 56:51
  In one of the things that I was reading, it said, this is a mom's advice to her son.
• 56:57
  Go out and find this type of woman.
• 57:00
  This is advice for all.
• 57:02
  Go out and find a partner if you choose to find a partner or if you don't be the kind
• 57:07
  of person that is strong and able and serves the people that you love.
• 57:18
  Not just women.
• 57:19
  Not just wives.
• 57:20
  Husbands.
• 57:21
  People who are single in church.
• 57:24
  Serve the people that you love.
• 57:25
  If you know that they need something, fill that gap for them.
• 57:30
  If someone is hungry, feed them.
• 57:33
  If you have the opportunity to go out and get a job and contribute to your family and
• 57:38
  that's what you're gonna do, do it.
• 57:39
  Man or woman.
• 57:40
  Be that person.
• 57:42
  It doesn't have to be a laundry list of expectations for women.
• 57:45
  Nope.
• 57:46
  Oh, I just feel like I need a nap after this one.
• 57:49
  It's been a heavy one, guys.
• 57:52
  On the plus side, again, we're in Disney.
• 57:55
  I'm so sorry that you're not.
• 57:59
  Someday my life goals- so my daughter's been watching Full House lately and they have one
• 58:04
  episode- it's the most absurd episode.
• 58:06
  It's like the Disney crossover.
• 58:07
  Oh my gosh, I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 58:11
  And two of the main characters- I mean, you've never seen it.
• 58:14
  This show's a weird sort of treasure.
• 58:18
  But Jesse and Joey, two of the main characters, they have a radio show, I think, and they
• 58:24
  somehow are allowed to record their radio show in one of the aquariums.
• 58:31
  Disney has these massive aquariums, right?
• 58:33
  And they have like a bubble down in one of them and they scuba dive down to the bubble
• 58:38
  and they record their radio show in the bubble.
• 58:40
  And that is my life goal, okay, to record this podcast in Disney in a bubble.
• 58:46
  You're gonna have to do that solo.
• 58:47
  I'm not doing that with you.
• 58:48
  What the heck?
• 58:49
  I don't know why.
• 58:50
  You hate confined places.
• 58:51
  I do.
• 58:52
  I really do.
• 58:53
  But it's just- I saw it and I was like, Disney.
• 58:58
  You just want to go to Disney.
• 58:59
  I always want to go to Disney.
• 59:03
  Maybe that's my life goal.
• 59:04
  Maybe my life goal is to someday- what if we record in the castle?
• 59:07
  What if they let us do that?
• 59:09
  Okay, I'm sure they will.
• 59:11
  They love Christian feminism.
• 59:15
  Disney executives, if you are listening.
• 59:18
  Alyssa's life goal.
• 59:20
  When you wish upon a star, you could make my dreams come true.
• 59:28
  Oh, Mr. Disney.
• 59:30
  Mr. Disney's dead.
• 59:33
  Listen to me beyond the grave.
• 59:35
  Okay, guys, it's getting real hot in this room.
• 59:38
  You'd think it would cool down by now.
• 59:40
  It has not.
• 59:41
  It's because there's no air circulation.
• 59:43
  Next week we're talking about weaponized incompetence.
• 59:45
  There we go.
• 59:46
  And I have a whole song dedicated to it.
• 59:49
  Sing it for the people.
• 59:50
  No.
• 59:51
  For the first time, no.
• 59:56
  Alright, so we'll see you guys next week.
• 59:59
  Unfortunately, by next week we'll be back from Disney, so that's a bummer.
• 1:00:01
  And we might be a little bit more depressed, so if you noticed just a change in our attitude,
• 1:00:06
  we got the Disney saddies.
• 1:00:08
  Alright, we'll see you guys then.
• 1:00:12
  Love you, bye.
• 1:00:13
  Love you, bye.
• 1:00:14
  Love you, bye.