Latest / Caught on the Mike... / "From Setbacks to Comebacks" talking addiction & recovery with Ryan McLaughlin & Amanda Colanino

Transcript

"From Setbacks to Comebacks" talking addiction & recovery with Ryan McLaughlin & Amanda Colanino · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Warning due to some language and subject matter, listener discretion is devised.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Henry Rollins has a quote that says, The month of November makes me feel that life is passing more quickly.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: In an effort to slow it down, I try and fill the hours more meaningfully.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, November is very relevant.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: This next episode of the podcast is a little bit unconventional.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Joining me today are my friends Amanda and Ryan.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Amanda is the CEO and founder of Dogger, an organic-based yogurt for dogs.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: My friend Ryan teaches an assist with the success of college students at a very prominent university.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is where they are now, but we are going to tell a tale of the road that got them there.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the bigger the setback, the greater the comeback.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mike.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we have an unconventional episode of Caught on the Mike today.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have my friends Ryan and Amanda with us.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like I start every episode, without further ado, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Whoever wants to go first.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hello, Michael.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Ryan McLaughlin.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Ryan McLaughlin.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: I work in higher education.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the institution itself will leave nameless at this point, although you guys know where it's at in Omaha, Nebraska.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I work as an academic success coach, um, mostly with undergraduate students, but I also um teach first year courses at the university.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been entrusted to uh teach credit bearing courses at a college.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um a rather prestigious one as well, I might add.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um couple kids.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: I have a daughter and a son.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've been married for 11 years with the same beautiful woman for 21 years now, almost.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which oddly enough, she worked with with Amanda there uh when I first met her.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, we we we live in a a nice small home with a couple dogs and uh work work our days away and and cause mayhem at night together.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: The dogs, that's a good uh would you look at that?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Hey.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Take it away.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Dogs, I don't even like dogs.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Amanda Colinino.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I am the owner and creator of Dog Ert, which I came up with like eight years ago.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it is frozen organic yogurt for dogs.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been pushing away at that the past few years, um, trying to get that off the ground and running.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I have three dogs.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I foster dogs, my entire life is dog.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I do.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Which actually, you know, uh being being your social media friend, it's awesome.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, like, if you're ever having a bad day, like Amanda's never fallen short of posting a dog video.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I'm sure many people have unfollowed me because of that, but you foster dogs too, right?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: I do, yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's um one that I fostered before sitting next to me and babysitting her while her parents are out of town.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So oh, that's fantastic.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Dogs 24-7.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! So this is an unconventional episode of the podcast.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: As I said, it is maybe the after-school special version of podcasts because we're gonna tackle what could be um for some a very uncomfortable topic, but it's one that I think uh needs attention, especially in a time following civil unrest, like a year like 2020, and after a time where people don't have their normal routines because of COVID-19.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Mental health is a struggle right now, as is the topic of this podcast.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, tell everybody what we're here to talk about.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um, as I talked about my profession, um, I'm also an alcoholic.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if I'd call myself an addict, but I certainly never turned down a drug.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Amanda?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: I as well am an alcoholic.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna get in the weeds on that.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Ryan, how long have you been sober?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, last November of 2020, it was 11 years.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, congratulations.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I had my um, thank you.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: I had my last drink on November 8th of 2009.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember that date well because I was playing a show uh with a with an old band and the guilt following that show and going home and having to admit to the beautiful woman I spoke of of 21 years that I had gotten drunk sucked.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, you feel like a real shit bag after um being sent away to rehab and then getting out of rehab, playing a show and getting drunk.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, everybody had their faith and concern with you and went out and said, ah, fuck it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna get drunk, because that seemed like a good idea at the time.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, Amanda, how long have you been sober?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was four years, November 20th.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, November.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know, right?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a good good month, I guess.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of a lot of people that have quit in November for some reason, but I is there something legitimate to that?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something about the onset of the holidays and maybe just a little bit of self-actualization usually around that time?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or shit, man.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I holidays were always a good party time.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why would you want to quit right before then?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that's usually when people turn the volume up.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're absolutely correct.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: But uh a lot of people also go into a self-reflective state around that time, too.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's why seasonal affective disorder usually kicks off around the holidays.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's why suicide rates tend to typically go up around the holidays, is people tend to have to come to grips with a different side of reality that uh usually they would use something like alcoholism to escape.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'm just I don't know this for sure, and I am gonna make this qualifier here that I am no way any expert or have any knowledge about Dr.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Clark about addiction or or anything along those lines.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just I'm just a casual third-party observer that likes watching people, yeah.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think I I would feel like I need to qualify myself as well that I'm no expert in this.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all I know is what I did.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Same year.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what humanizes us all.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, totally agree.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now to get in the nitty-gritty of it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, Ryan, when did your drinking start?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think casually, much like everyone else, you know, you somebody you'd find somebody that had some booze on the weekend when you're in high school.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I would say the real partying started in college 1920 or so, maybe even before that, um, where it got to the point of you know, getting blackout drunk on the weekend.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: That slowly progressed, you know.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: You you always looked at folks that that you knew that like that guy at the party who was the most annoying, the loudest, the drunkest, and you're like, oh my god, what's his deal?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and years later, in reflection, I can go, You were that guy.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't even know when it happened, you know, like there wasn't that burning bush moment where I went, oh, I'm the drunkest guy here, or the biggest idiot here, or the biggest dick in the room.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, looking back, you you start to realize that.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I that progression from that 18, 19 years old um really went all the way until I quit in 2009.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: So at that point I was 32, almost 33.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and honestly, man, I was a miserable person then because it was no, you know, when we're young and we're 21, 22, playing in bands, and everybody's going out, nobody has kids or really much to worry about, other than maybe I gotta get up early for work.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: It was fun, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone was there.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I tell everyone it was fun until it wasn't fun anymore, and it wasn't fun.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't get home every night by myself, putting away shit, a gallon of vodka, like just to go to bed.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: So is your story somewhat similar, Amanda?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like like when you started drinking, or how how did you come into it?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was a late bloomer.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have my first beer till I was 20 and a half, and I was down in Lincoln with my friends, and I tried a beer and thought I was shit face drunk, and I was like, oh, that was kind of fun, but yeah, I don't think it's really for me.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then my 21st birthday, um, I refused to take shots.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would not take shots.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: I so I just drank a shit ton of beer and then started working at bars and found hard alcohol, and then I started taking shots, and that was that was it.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah, it was so a common connection we have socially is like I know both of you from my time playing music, and uh we we kind of all have social connections because of such.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that some of this came from like I would say like maybe maybe a sense of immaturity?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I understand that alcoholism is a disease, and we'll we'll kind of cross that bridge here in a few moments.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: But do you think maybe that trying to keep the party going was just a loss of sense of reality with where you were moving in life and the way that the trajectory that life was moving for you?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: The short answer is yes.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I and this is actually something I've talked to my parents about because they've always been huge supporters of the music that I've played.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And right.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, even to this day, my 66-year-old parents will still come see their 44-year-old baby play punk rock, you know, like which is super awesome, you know, it's cute as hell.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm waiting for my dad to do some spin kicks in the pit.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I started playing in Omaha Bars when I was 16, you know.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: We played our our first show.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was 16 years old, it was 92 or uh 93, and I I know that my folks I've had this discussion with my mom, you know, I feel guilty.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Why did we let you do that?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I I would never say that that was the catalyst, right?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: But when you when you are coming up in that and you think you want to be a rock star and you idolize bands like Metallica, I had a poster in my room of Alcoholica, you know, and you know, the stories uh of the debauchery of Motley Crue and Guns N' Roses and all this, you know, I I don't know that that's the direct correlation, but I certainly think about it and go, hmm, if those were the type of people that I idolized, is that what I gravitated towards?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: It might not be correlation, but it's definitely influence.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, without a doubt, you know, and I and I think that just carried forward into the days of playing shows, you know.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Once you get to be 21 and you have a show, like what is it?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: The show's secondary to the party, really.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: At least for me it was after a while.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which really defeats the purpose of writing music, right?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do I want to do?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Get together with everybody and drink.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hard actualization to know that sometimes your purpose isn't to be there to entertain, is sometimes your purpose is there to sell drinks.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's their business model.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: They want to get as many people in the door as possible, and to where, like, an average concert goer, somebody below the age of 21 might legitimately be there for the right reasons, be there to be entertained.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: But realistically, from a bar business model standpoint, they're they're in the business of selling drinks.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Amanda was their perfect clientele.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's no lie.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, how about how about yourself, Amanda?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how like socialization in regards to your drinking, yeah, you know, how would you describe that?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was it was just everywhere.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, booze was just everywhere, even you know, in high school, I didn't drink, but if I hung out with friends, they they were always drinking, um, you know, and then we went to college, and that was pretty much the reason you went to college was to go party and drink, and you know, it just, you know, then we found music, and you know, you go listen to music, you have a drink in your hand the whole time.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it just kind of snowballed, and you know, and then I think um in college I became really aware of my anxiety and my social anxiety.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: So then the drinking became a huge like coping mechanism.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I would go to the bar, have a panic attack, have to go home, sit by myself for like an hour, chug a few beers to be able to go back and hang out at the bar to continue to get shit face drunk and then see where the night took me.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm glad you mentioned that because there's a uh a biochemical element to this.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I myself, I have not drank in about three years.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's it's not because of anything that I feel developed into a form of alcoholism.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's because I noticed a correlation between my anxiety and uh a night out at the bar.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: So one night out the bar, I would get drunk, I would spend the whole next day trying to call people, apologizing for things I didn't even do, and I would spend the whole next like one night of drinking, I would spend the whole next week miserable in like uh almost like a downtrodden state of depression, which was just completely unexplainable.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I would have panic attacks, and it took me a long time to realize that correlation.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if A happens, B happens.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, so it's it's you know, where you used alcohol as a form to cure your anxiety, it might have been the cause of the anxiety, it was a hundred percent was, and I didn't, you know, after you quit drinking, like all this stuff just smacks you in the face, like, oh my god, oh my god, you know, right?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the anxiety was totally from the booze, and it was just making it worse, yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So treat treating anxiety and depression with a depressing right, yeah, you know, and then I was on Paxel on top of that, and that was just I was dating Dave Collins at the time, and he's like, dude, I am legitimately worried about you.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: I came in, my friend Megan had an intervention basically because I mean I would pass out so hard, and I guess my body would just like flail about, and I had no idea what was going on, and the Paxel was treating the anxiety, and then I was able to go out and get liquor up.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's uh yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, for the both of you, what was the catalyst for you getting help?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Have you seen that TV show intervention?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, my family did that to a T.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, yeah, it was fucking like I I I was legitimately pissed at first.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so it was literally just uh my mom invited us over for Sunday dinner, everybody was acting weird, and I was like, this is bizarre.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: And they sat down, they had written letters, they read them, they got letters from bandmates of mine, best friends of mine, Zach and Jamie.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, read those to me, and by the five o'clock that night I was at rehab.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how about you yourself, Amanda?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh mine was my what would it have been, my 38th birthday in that whole week?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just partyed.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're 38, man.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: I worked at the VFW and I was so desperate to I it was on my birthday.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was so desperate to just get shit paced and have fun on my birthday that I went to karaoke at the Sydney with my dad and a super old dude from the VFW.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's how hard up I was to go have birthday drinks.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And my dad said that I just turned into like Satan, and I don't remember any of it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I was trying to hit him and I was cussing him out, and I don't remember any of that.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so, of course, this was the 16th.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that whole week, you know, I sat and I was still drinking myself to sleep, and um the guy was dating at the time, he's like, You need to quit drinking for five days, or we're done.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I can quit five days, you know, Thanksgiving's coming, Christmas is coming.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, five days, you know, I can I can do that.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it hid my vodka, five days came and went, and I felt like myself just going like this.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this feels awesome.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so kind of like a fuck you, I kept going to like a fuck you to him.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, watch, I can go, I can go 10 days, and you know, I just each day I felt better and better and better, so I just kept going.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And here I am, you know, four years and two months later, and I that at the height of your alcoholism.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, were you and this this is for both of you?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Were did you find that you were drinking more in the social environment or had it progressed beyond the social environment to where it was those depths of where you were like, I I'm at home, I've got the jitters, I need a drink kind of situation.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I never had withdrawals.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I just it was every single day at like four o'clock, I'd pour a glass of wine.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I didn't think I was an alcoholic because I never drank in the morning.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, I can I don't need booze, but I did, I thought, you know, to get myself to sleep every night.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd start drinking at four.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'd be up till three in the morning, pounding vodka diet cokes.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I would black out to do it all again the next day.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: How about you, right?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh at the height of it, there was nothing social about it because I was at a point where I was trying to hide it from Jenny.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was trying to hide it from everybody I knew, thinking I was, of course, in my drunken dumbass wisdom, you know, and every day little did I know that I couldn't talk or stand when I was drunk, so um that that's how it went.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: But um yeah, I I mean I would I would stop at the gas station at six in the morning, like hair of the dog style, get like a a fifth of vodka and slug that um just to feel better.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: You you'd kind of built it into your circadian rhythms to a certain extent.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was terrible, and then you know, then I would sleep it off for a while, get up and do it again, you know, and then go to bed that night.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um maybe remember the day, maybe not, you know, still going to work, still just so that's gotta that's where I was gonna go next.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is you know, you both have progressed your careers and your endeavors beyond this addiction, like at that time, how was it impacting your career trajectory of what you guys were doing to make a living?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: I've been fired from so many jobs, and I mean it I know it's because I was freaking shit face drunk still from the night before.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: You sure it's not because your salty attitude?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it might have been that too.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, come on now.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Come on now, we can't be honest here, but yeah, I mean, I didn't have a career.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I had no idea what I wanted to do.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I had dogged um, you know, going, but it was more of a hobby, and I knew it's what I wanted to do with my life, but booze was way more important.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if I had this paycheck and then I was a bartender, so drink while I work, and then I get more money to go to the bar after I'm off work, sign me up.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that for you know the past nine years or whatever.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, yeah.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: I actually worked the the same job during the whole time that I was an alcoholic.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know how well I hit it, you know.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: There was definitely those call-in sick days because I had I was too shit faced or whatever.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think part of the reason that I worked that same job the whole time is because it was comfortable and I was scared shitless of everything.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was scared shitless to grow up, I was scared shitless to admit I had a problem, I was scared shitless of everything.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I um I had an undergraduate degree at that time, but chose not to use it and just continued to work the same job um due to the fact that I was just scared of everything.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's understandable.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: In your time of sobriety, I'm sure you have also become a third-party observer uh to a certain degree because you see other people going through this.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a certain defining point where it goes from vice to an addiction?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And are those two totally different things?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it depends on the person.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because there's some people that I'm jealous of that can go and have two glasses of wine all night and be good.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do that.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I could, but you know, and it's the same with smoking cigarettes.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I know if I went and took a drag of a cigarette right now, my ass would be down at the gas station buying a carton because, like, that's how my personality is.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's just I don't want some, I want more.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: What what's the saying?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: One is too many and ten is never enough or something, but it's the truth.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if that's not what it is, that's what it is now.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:24
  unknown: Thanks.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well played.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well played.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a that's a very good tie-in because um, you know, obviously alcoholism is a disease, addiction is a disease.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's because uh, you know, Dr.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Clark speaking here, um, your neurons are kind of um and your receptors kind of react a certain way to the response of uh those actions.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is it ever is there ever a difference between when it's a legitimate disease or a choice, or is it a disease of choice?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I hate this question.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I knew you would.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because I, you know, it it's hard to say that I didn't choose to go out and drink.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: But the disease did push me to that, right?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but but I you know, I've I've heard um therapists and and counselors describe it.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you had cancer, let's say, you would do what it takes to take care of yourself and get that in order, right?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: So knowing I am I'm an alcoholic, I do what it takes to keep it in order.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um I do know that if I go have a drink, I'll be right back to where I was.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Same here.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's it there's no in-between.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like Amanda said, one is one is good and ten did something or something.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and this is this is where I gave you guys the disclaimer before we we press the record button because uh honestly, you have to understand the position that I'm I I'm coming from a neutral place, neutral territory here, but I've also I've also been impacted by alcoholism.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: It has closed in around me in different elements of my life, different parts of my life.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um does it ever appear that the disease can sometimes be used as a scapegoat for other irrational or sometimes immoral behavior?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I think so.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I dated an asshat, you know, he oh, it was because I was drunk, oh, it was because I was drunk, so it was kind of excusable.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if I did something messed up, which you know, when I quit drinking, I found out why my best friend quit talking to me.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea, no idea.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, you know, because I would do shit when I was drunk and had no idea.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I I know that I used it as the scapegoat for however many dozens or hundreds of dipshit moves that that I made in life.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I was drunk, I didn't know that I did that, you know, and and that always becomes an excuse.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I can't say for certain that I haven't used that as an excuse after the fact, right?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, I'm I'm a recovering alcoholic, therefore, I I I don't I honestly don't know if I can answer that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think probably in my fucked up brain at some point I probably decided that that was a good excuse for being a dumbass.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think I think there's a steady balance of perception versus reality, where a a third-party person that doesn't have an understanding of alcoholism or the way that alcoholism is a tr has a trickle-down effect.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't only impact the alcoholic, but it impacts the lives of everybody that's surrounding the alcoholic and connected to the alcoholic.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I I've I've done it myself.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have cast judgment on people and be like, How come that motherfucker can't get their shit together?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can I they not find their why?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Can they not find their reason to get past this?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Can they not and and I think there's merits to that too.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, sometimes you have to find that that focal point where it's like, I in order to get beyond this, I have to focus on this.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people that progress out of alcoholism or addiction find something else to replace it, whether they become better musicians or like guys like Duff McKagan or Robert Downey Jr.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: that have gotten into martial arts and stuff along those lines, you know.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, that leads me to ask what is your why?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: What what is what is the motivating factor that keeps your sobriety intact today?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, I've got two little kids I'm raising now, right?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to be the best me that I can be, and the person I am now, 11 years after the fact, is like night and day different than the person that I was.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I think you made a good point, and and part of the reason why I remain sober is because the alcoholism is now my problem only.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I was told at my old my own um episode of intervention that you're gonna be homeless, you can't live with us, you can't see any of us, all those things where that you know collateral damage was suddenly all put back on me, and I was like, what do I do now?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I I mean that's the two big whys.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: How about for you, Amanda?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: That was not me.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was I what was I why oh, so I watched the Blue October documentary the other night, and just I was a hot mess.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just a lot of the stuff he said was just like gut punches, and the part that hit me the most was his mom coming up behind him, grabbing his shoulders, and he's like, I know Justin is somewhere in there, like he's still in there, and that just like I lost my shit.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, because that's how it was when I was drinking.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I totally lost myself, and I've spent the past four years trying to get you know pre-drinking, pre-drunk Amanda back, and I finally figured or you know, I finally feel like I'm about 98% there, and you know, if I took a drink tomorrow, that's all just it's gone.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I wouldn't give shit about my house, my dogs, my business.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just where's that next drink coming from?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I gotta have you on like uh as a co-host more often because you throw me my next question so well.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because well, played.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask you, are there things that happen today in this moment, January 28th?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is the 28th, right?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, January 28th, 2021.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Are there things that are happening today that could be potential triggers for either one of you?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I you know, it's it's those fleeting moments.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's not always necessarily a very specific thing, it's more like um a feeling or a thought.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, uh I I think we all are human beings in general tend to kind of glorify the past, you know, like, oh my god, I remember, you know, being in brothers and just listening to punk rock and having a great time with all my pals.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: Flash forward five years from that point when I was sitting in my truck by myself, you know, looking in the mirror, asking myself who I am.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the moments I have to bring back, you know, okay.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that shit wasn't fun.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't want to be back to that.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that that fun party ended long, long before my drinking career did, you know.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Another good tie-in.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, Ryan, you still play in bands, and and I know for a short period of time, even after you started your sobriety journey, Amanda, you were still working at the VFW, correct?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: How did either one of you preoccupy your mind when you were put in environments surrounded by temptation to avoid that temptation?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good question.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, go ahead, Amanda.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I I don't know.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was like retraining your brain.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: I I think for me, I had to um one before I went, just be very clear with everybody like, hey, if I leave, it's not because I don't like the other bands, it's not because I disrespect you guys, just know that I'm struggling.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the biggest thing was was getting back to that place where it was about the music and not the party, which is where I'm at now, which is great because I just love it so much, and it's that that same old feeling I had before drinking heavily before playing, where you're just nervous and like excited.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so just knowing that you're there for a reason, and that reason is to play.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a thing that kind of comes with age though, too.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: You have no doubt about it.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: You you make a certain piece with it.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you get to a point where you're like, okay, it's not about being the the top dog on stage, it's it's about just doing something that fulfills you.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, you know, tying things back to my to myself.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, this this journey of starting a podcast, I had a lot of uh discussions with myself internally about it, and it was one of those things where I've kicked the idea around for years, but I knew that I didn't want to do it unless it would be something that I was proud of or something that I wanted to listen to for myself.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, like music is the same way, right?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like you get up on stage, you're playing 110% for yourself right now, and it's probably creating some of the best art you've ever created as a byproduct.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I play I play and write what I would listen to, right?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right, which which wasn't always the case in every band I was in.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Not that I didn't enjoy it, but it it wasn't always, yeah, right?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like it wasn't always like what I really, really, really wanted to play, and then I was just like, fuck it, yeah.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I might be a bass player, but I've always had a guitar.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see what happens.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, Amanda, how has like focusing on your entrepreneurial ship?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: How has this sobriety kind of turned over a new lease on that?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how has it made you refocus your attention on that?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, getting up before two in the afternoon helps a lot.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a whole other world before 2 p.m.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Who knew?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, yeah, I mean, it's my passion, and I don't feel like I'm working when I engulf myself in dog earth, so I got rid of all the bullshit, you know, and I'm finally in a place where I'm just like doing what I love all the time.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to bring anything in to disrupt that.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's let's have a little bit of fun with this.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: What's something that your friends or family or people that would listen to this podcast be surprised to learn about each one of you?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty I'm kind of an open book.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I think if anybody were to hear this who hasn't seen me in 11 years, like I'm I'm actually pretty friendly.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I wouldn't I I wouldn't call you names and be an asshole anymore unless you started it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Or you're just having fun, right?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, good good good old ribbon.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Then I might be an asshole.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: So Amanda, you at one point in life, you know, if I remember correctly, and I've got some pretty damn good memory, you had a passion for journalism, is that correct?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Did yeah, and yeah, I have started writing again, not like journalism, but journaling for myself and poetry, and again, which when I when the pen started moving again, that's when I was like, holy shit, I'm back, you know.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so that would be something that some people would be surprised to learn, right?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably because drunk Amanda didn't wasn't very poetic.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if you were to die tomorrow, what would you do with the time that you have left?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'd hug my wife and kids, maybe play guitar and go get a pack of smokes.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: If I knew for sure I was gonna die.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Go get a pack of pea funks, man.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously, I would I would smoke before I drink ever again.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is a that's a this is a good question, and and honestly, I'm glad I don't mention what I do for a living, and I'm not mentioning the establishment that you work for, Ryan.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: For because of where I'm going with this uh this question, being recovered alcoholics, what is your stance on the potential legalization of medical marijuana?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's a slippery slope?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm all for it.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's too totally yeah, good.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're all on the same page, so yeah, no.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm I'm pretty much a a straight edge dude now, but yeah, man.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I never had a problem with people that smoked little dope, right?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right, or eat it, or eat it, yeah, whatever.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, or or drink it even.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: I saw somebody that's funny.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do anything.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's fun.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Let's uh let's wrap this up with some final words.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you were able to write a letter to yourself at that moment that you started drinking, what would you tell them about your life right now, where you're at in life right now?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're not a complete fuck up.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be afraid to take chances.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's one of the one of the biggest lessons I've learned in the last 11 years is that taking a chance on a career, on a job, on a uh, you know, going for that new degree, whatever it is, starting a business, um, you know, a podcast, whatever it is, take that chance because it can really turn into the happiness that you're looking for.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I was so scared shitless to take any chances back then.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Follow your passion.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've always been passionate about dogs, and for you know, 20 some years I bounced from gig to gig and I hated it, and you know, then I fell into drinking, and um I don't know.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think I would just tell myself, like, you're gonna go through some shit, but that shit's gonna carry you to where you need to be.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you know, everything behind me, I took a little piece of it somehow, some way, and brought that with me, and here I am.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no doubt.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I because I think a lot of people, at least in conversations I've had, like, God, don't you have so many regrets?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I mean, sure, everybody does to a certain extent, but I also wouldn't be right where I'm at right now if right I didn't go through that stuff, you know?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm right there with you guys.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, uh, you know, I've had so many, you know, ex-girlfriends, an ex-wife, you know, ex-friends that are like, Man, you wasted so much of your life doing music.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like, did I did I?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like the thing, right?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is, is I can tell my kids stories that none of their friends, their friends as parents are gonna be able to tell their kids.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's very fulfilling.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'll leave it at that.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a very fulfilling story.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Was it perfect?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Did I fall on my face and fuck up a ton of times?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: More than I can count, you know.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Even today, am I exactly where I want to be?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I'm always looking forward to tomorrow, to be better tomorrow than I was today, for sure.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: That whole one day at a time thing, yeah.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's I mean, I've kind of been embracing that since absolutely, yeah, especially with COVID.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like this again.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: No shit.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: They now the hope is the hope is that uh if the vaccinations, if we can get 60 to 70 percent of the country vaccinated by July or August, things will start to somewhat resume to a sense of normalcy.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: And oh hopefully, but yeah, we'll see, right?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right, right.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm proud of both of you.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: I am super proud to call you guys friends.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm glad we I got to have you on the podcast.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: I know we talked about this about a month ago.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, uh one another reason for me starting this for myself was to reconnect with people again.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was I I I'll I'll be honest, I was in my own bad head space, you know.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, just kind of honing in on being a parent and honing in on the career, you kind of tend to lose sight and you get tunnel vision and you don't pay attention to the other things that are important, and relationships with folks like you are definitely important.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, I'm I my gratitude to you guys.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I I love having you on.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love you guys.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for being on the podcast.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Mike.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Mike.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I appreciate you having us, and it's cool to be on with Amanda too, because I love seeing friends from the span of mid-mine doing cool shit, man.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's what it's all about.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it's all about.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, I want to thank Ryan and Amanda for coming on the show today.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: That is a big ask for somebody to be so open and vulnerable.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you doing it on my show.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Random factoid, Ryan and I share the same exact birthday, and we have a little fun game where we post messages on each other's Facebook page every year.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: One editorial note in regard to myself, in this episode, I stated that I haven't drank in three years.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I have had drinks at special events on a few occasions, but for the most part, I have not drank in three years.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to make sure I'm fully transparent.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, if you get a chance, go to your favorite podcast app, give us that five-star rating, go to your social media, share the Caught on the Mic social media pages.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: We need to build that following.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: We need to keep creating good content for episodes to come.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: I am Michael Clark.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, thank you.