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Building a Beauty Brand Beyond Trends with Natasha Denona · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Our guest today needs absolutely no introduction.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: She is truly an icon.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I have been probably her biggest fan for so long, way before I started this podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a huge full circle moment for me.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you guys how ecstatically happy I am to be doing this interview.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, please welcome Natasha Denona.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome Natasha.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, thank you so much.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: What an introduction! Oh my gosh, thank you for having me.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so, so, so happy to chat with you today.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, looking forward to deep dive into interesting topics.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm so excited.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I oh no, it's it's an honor.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's like such an understatement.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's such an honor.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just such a fan of not only obviously the amazing brand you've created, the movement you've created with that and the impact you've had on this industry for people like me, people all over the world.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: So without me ranting too much, I want to start with learning all about it.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: You made me cry.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm sorry.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like uh I like love bomb people, I feel like.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: But um, no, I want to I want to learn everything.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, tell us like where did the journey begin for you?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I know mom was a chemist, right?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: So growing up, you were around like science.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, tell us everything.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so my mom was a chemist, not in cosmetics, but in unorganic chemistry.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: They were experimenting in Germany with coal, which was a quite boring topic for me as a kid, but I love the environment of the lab.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I was visiting her many, many times after the school.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: We had lunch together, and then I kind of went into her office, and she was uh she was doing three specific things over there.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: She was a lab chemist, and uh they did those uh experiments, and she was also photographing those experiments, and she developed in a dark room, she developed the pictures back then in the 80s.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: It it wasn't digital yet, so and I was studying also at school photography.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So this kind of I got it from school, I got this background about photography and science from my mom's side.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: She was also a technical drawer, which means that she was working and collaborating with chemists that were writing their theories and writing their books.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So she was also drawing.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So her office was full of chemistry, science, photography, and also technical drawings.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So this is kind of my world, and I think that uh this gave me a lot.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh even though she wasn't working with in cosmetics, but when you when you you kind of absorb as a kid the environment of your parents, and I saw this scientific word world, and it kind of even though I never, never, never ever thought I'm gonna go into science or or chemistry or things like that, because I was fighting with my mom at home when I was studying chemistry, but because I couldn't understand the logic, it was like too much for me.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't it wasn't logic like mathematics, which had some logic, and chemistry was just off logic.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't get it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I would never think that I would do something with chemists today and be myself, being myself and working with science, but it just enriches you as a kid somehow in your subconsciousness.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that's that it came from there.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I love what you said because you're so right.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like, yeah, just being around something like math and science, it does like subconsciously as a child, like it kind of develops you in a different way.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really interesting.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's intriguing for me because when I look at your work across the board, like I mean, even when you look at the the color stories for every palette that you create, it's like I didn't see that before you in this industry personally.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure like people have different experiences, but for me, when I used to just dive into like how you put colors together, it made so much sense for me, my skin tone, like the way I would approach it.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: The science was almost built in as an experience for me when I was looking at it as a consumer.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to kind of like go there.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: But before the brand started, what was that relationship that you had with makeup or just color theory in general?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like this world.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to us about that.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the world with with color came to me through painting.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: I started painting uh when I was a teenager.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of found interest in Salvador Dali's work.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I was reading Yeah, I I I was reading so many books about his life, about his whole ideology and theory about his vision in art.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a little nerd about those things.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was literally sitting at home and reading this when I was 15, and and kind of inspired me and started to draw and paint.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And while I was dancing already, I was a dancer.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: I started only at 13 to dance, which is quite late.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: But the art and painting was always a part of self-expression, but really from the inside, like it helped me kind of relax and get calm.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to explain it better, but I just felt like it was a psychological therapy for me to paint.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it started from there, and then when I started modeling with eight around 18 years old, oh no, before that, I during dance, we you know, dancers and actors usually they do their own makeup for stage.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so this was this was actually the fun part and everything.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: I did my makeup, and then I started doing makeup on other kids as well.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this was like so.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: I actually started with theater makeup when I'm thinking about it for the first time doing makeup, and uh, this was very expressive because it was super big and expressive, and your eyes have to be huge for stage.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And when I started modeling, that was in the early that was the end of the 80s, like 89, 90s.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: At that time, models used to do their own makeup, and so I started kind of understanding the difference between expressive makeup and stylish makeup and beauty.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: When I when I started creating products and those constellations of colors, the color stories in my palettes that was because I was working so many years as a makeup artist in fashion, so the world of expression, of dance, maybe, and theater, at the same time, also fashion.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I find kind of both of those worlds I love so much, and I find it so much fun to play around with hues and shades that complement perfectly together, create a whole look that you you can you can work on one color story on one shade, that you can build a whole story around that only one shade, and you can make it versatile.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And this is hard.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to create like one color story that will still look like interesting and fun to play with.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's I feel like you are the queen of that at this point.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I I think because when I first discovered your the eyeshadow palettes are obviously iconic, but in general, it was for me as a consumer very unique to see that you were doing that.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was like we were discussing before the interview, like the camel palette, the even the mini, when you look at it, it is everything you need for a beautiful brown, that nude shade.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything you need is right there.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was so amazing to me, seeing that as a consumer, because usually I was matching, I had three different things going on, trying to find my perfect crease shade and my so to see you do that is phenomenal in the makeup industry because there's so much that you we can talk about here, you know, from the inclusivity aspect and like all these things.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um is that something that you how do you approach that, the inclusivity thing?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that actually uh comes from uh a different starting point when I create a product.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think about the look first, and then I imagine how that look would look in a palette, yeah, as a palette, or some specific needs, for example, in complexion products, which I'm thinking about as a makeup artist, as a consumer, what is missing, what I always dreamt of, that I never got to to have or to be able to purchase.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: So these are like my inspirations of the products, and and I'm really I think that this is this makes the products look a little bit different, uh and unique.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that that's why also I'm happy that you're saying that you kind of see these things in the products, and this is also like this makes it the most exciting when when I see people understanding the products, why they exist, yeah, and and that they understand it's more than just a product, it's that's a lot.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I mean I think that's what's always made it stand out, and and your products, like your brand has always stood out, in my opinion, because it connects immediately with the consumer.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when the Bibo palette launched, and it's another amazing example.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are so many shades there that you can create any look that you want, and that's where that's why I asked you about inclusivity because being in medical training at the time, for me, that purchase took me a very long way.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: I still have my original palette, and so I like that's where I asked you because now I see the makeup industry is going in this direction where there's so many products, new launches every month.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: But then when I look at your work, it's like this is timeless.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: How do you create that timelessness in the products that you come out with?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is your approach to that?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's because I'm not running after trends.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that I'm I never really think, and I'm honestly um always checking what the trends are and what probably other brands are gonna do.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go in between the gaps.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm gonna do something that nobody will do.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna do something that I think is good for always, and not only for that moment or for this year or for this season.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So this is, I don't know, this is like kind of I see the makeup products that at least I create, I see them as evergreens, as something that you can always like you're saying, the Biba palette is good for always.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um inclusivity is a part where uh what is super important for me.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is something that is one of the maybe the most important thing.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't I just cannot bear the feeling that somebody will feel excluded.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: I just cannot I cannot have that.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not for me.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is horrible for me, and that's why I'm trying truly, we're trying our best to include everyone.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think you always have.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what's so intriguing about the brand is that so many brands now, and I'm I'm sure you've seen it, the industry has evolved so much where people are demanding or broader shape ring, but I think also it's important to like understand like you you have to do this from the beginning.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just like one day hop on a bandwagon and pretend like we've been inclusive, and so and I think consumers see that.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: So when you look at a brand like one you've created and you look at that, it's it's inbuilt from the beginning.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think that translates over years.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, let's talk about your the shade range because I the new foundation that you launched, by the way, it's phenomenal.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, huge, huge success.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how was that moving from like colors to foundation and like complexion product?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: How was that transition for you as an artist and coming from that science side as well?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's very challenging when you're creating a product, especially complexion, because you want to include everyone, and then you have to uh think, okay, but you cannot.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're an indie brand, right?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and for an indie brand to create 52 shades of uh of one complexion product is enormously huge.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: When we started, they asked me how many shades in the lab and also in the company.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: They should how many shades do you think you're gonna make?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna say, Okay, before I'm gonna finalize the foundation, it also depends on the foundation coverage and also the uh flexibility of how the foundation will adapt to different skin tones because you have sometimes formulas that are not flexible at all, it's just one shave for one specific type of person, and that's it.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like usually thicker formulas or fuller coverages.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: So while I was creating the formula, I wasn't really sure, so I estimated around 40.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I said 40 is a nice number to just start thinking about.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: It turned ended up being 52.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean the beginning 50, and then I saw like two little gaps missing uh by demand, and I created two more, so it's 52.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And this was not it wasn't even a negotiation, it was just I do what I think is right.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I don't care if it's too expensive for the company, for the brand.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that you have to compromise sometimes when you really want to do something unique and special for the people, first of all, and then I think about if it's profitable and how profitable is gonna be it's gonna be.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, it has to be profitable for a brand to exist, but I'm not driven by numbers firstly.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do that, and I think that this is more important.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have space to do that, so I do it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not obliged to to think differently, to do different decisions, and and the people are paying for it with missing shades.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna do that.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot sleep at night when I think about those things.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: I just cannot do this, so I do it right, and then we're checking if we can make it and we make it happen, and then it's you know, yeah, it makes sense.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's I feel like it should be like that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: It should be like I agree, I agree because it's not all numbers because at the end of the day, it's the consumer that they make the brand alive and keep it alive.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot think about numbers and money all the time, you cannot do that, yeah, in my opinion, because this is a world of passion and love, and people are really excited and passionate about your product, so you cannot just think about it as a secondary option, you know, like it it has to be the number one thought, and this is what it is for me.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I love that so much, and I think that's it's so awesome to hear you say that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's so much that can be learned from that approach.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that for me, it's interesting to watch when brands like start to evolve, but it's more important like when founders sit down and they start thinking, where am I going to take this?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where is my vision going?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the biggest questions I have for you.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You've created a brand that has outlasted so many in this industry, and and in the best way, how has that been in terms of obviously like scaling the brand, right?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: But then the creativity part of it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: How do you stay creative?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: How do you stay sharp and staying true to what you want to create?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: But you said you don't like trends, but kind of keeping your finger on the pulse still.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think about it as like musicians.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so a musician has a lot of hits, let's say, and how many melodies can you invent?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always thinking about that, and and thinking about also about the palette.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So the team is asking me for the next two, two, three years, what palettes are we gonna do?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was like for a couple, for example, a couple of years ago.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, what's gonna be the next palette?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm starting to think, and then I have some, you know, some shades that I love so much, but they didn't make it into a specific palette, not because they're not beautiful, just they didn't fit in.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I started working with those shades, and it kind of went I I don't know how, but now right now I'm working in the lab.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm in the lab in Italy, I'm just working on four different palettes at the same time, it's just insane.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't really know.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like when you have your concept idea.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have those ideas that I have also usually in the shower or when I fall asleep.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I have that, and then sometimes we have a conversation with the team, with the development team, or marketing.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing give uh can give also beautiful ideas, and then random things that I see in everyday life can give me an idea, or things that we wanted to do two years ago and we didn't, but oh, but we can do it differently today.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much going on all the time.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'm just in the evening, I'll just have a pop-up in my brain, and I'm sending a message to our group, and we have to talk about this tomorrow.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we can do a uh product, and and it's really exciting because it's it's these are like iconic and original ideas, let's say.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not iconic yet, but they're original, and I think that's nice and it's still going, so I don't know until when, but it it does.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: When you have a specific concept of let's say the high Glam foundation, the High Glen concealer concept, so you automatically already have a couple of further ideas for next launches, or with the eyeshadows, it's always something that can have a continuation in the story, so it helps as well.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is really fascinating because I you know, another product I want to bring up, and I would love to learn about this one more because I remember when you launched the love, the blush palettes, the blush and highlighter palettes.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you had a bronze one and then the the blush one.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the bronze tan, we had the bloom as the first, and we had the love, the love is.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then those were iconic.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody was doing that at the time.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like when I discovered that, that was I can't tell you how much you decluttered my my makeup with those kind of products as somebody who never used bronzer because I simply never learned how to use bronzer as a woman of color, like no one taught me.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I thought bronzer was only for really pale people, you know, whatever.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had this misconception.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: When I discovered those products, it taught me something.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't just like I'm buying makeup, it was I'm buying a tool for myself, you know, and that's what buying a look.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually buying a look, yeah, because exactly.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So when I developed these, it was not common to have these type of products on the market because people are always thinking about what sells is always something very simple.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I was like when I started the brand, I felt like things have to stay user-friendly, yes.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: But where's the actual pigment?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Where's the actual professional vision in the product?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was either this or that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: There was nothing on the market that gave both, with education as well.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: So all of my first products, especially, were all built based on the techniques as a makeup artist that I was using.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so this palette, it had it was exactly made the way I do makeup with the glow and the contour, uh, like bronzing, contouring, highlighting first with cream, then with topping it with powder.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it was all in those palettes.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the educational part of this was the marketing, was the communication, social media.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was exactly the time where people wanted to learn how you can apply at home in a simple simplified way, but you get those professional results.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So this was the correct, right timing.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was missing on the market.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody talked about education because it was kind of too complex and too much.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And no, when I did my presentation to Sephora when they invited me, when we launched at 2016 with them, I was talking only about education and the formulas.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Oh my gosh, that's exactly what we want to start talking about.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it was such a good fit and perfect timing for that, and then continue doing that because education is coming back with all the makeup artist friends.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy when I see that.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Every time I see education taken to the forefront, I love that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like for artistry and for especially like if you have never played with makeup and you have no idea what to do.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a product like that will revolutionize the way you do makeup.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: It it changed for me, and it was like that's where I think that's where I get so intrigued because professional side of makeup and then consumer side of makeup, I feel like there's been a disconnect for so long.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's either like you land on it or you miss it, it's never like in between.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I asked you that because I'm like, it's it's genius what you created, and I feel like now we're seeing it happen.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like so many brands are doing it with the cream, cream blush, and then you put a powder on top, and everyone's doing it now.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: You were years ahead when you created this.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, no, I want to I wanna kind of like shift focus because I want to ask you about entrepreneurship and like your journey.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like I said, you created a literally a brand that's lasting through years and years of changes, trends, all these things.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: How has that been for you as a woman and creating this just as an entrepreneur?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: What were some maybe moments where it was harder?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was a hard time to get through.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you can reflect on some of that for me, it was more a personal perspective of struggling with being in front of the camera and speaking, because it wasn't I didn't have any bad experiences with struggle.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of a company, or whatever it can be, or whoever it can be.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about a personal development that where I was thinking and still today develop my products, do my looks, and crazily involved in marketing and all the strategies of uh social media, of course, and all of those things, but also in the business, of course.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I wanted to do those things, but kind of I had to be in front of the camera as well.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm enjoying it, but it was super, super hard for me because it's not in my personal character to all that things go around me.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be in the spotlight.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I used to work as a model, I used to dance.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was more dancing, it was art, self-expression, modeling was a job, and I had fun with makeup.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but then being a founder and standing on on in masterclasses on stages all around the world today, and talking to you like these things.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: But since I have a story to tell, and it's really there's so much meaning behind it, so it's easy for me to talk about because it's true, it's honest, and so it's easier for me.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's nothing is like staged or fake, so it's real, and this is this is what makes me makes it easier for me.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I'm lucky that people love realness today.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: They don't I don't have to learn how to talk, I don't have to learn what to say and all those things.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: I just really say the authentic in an authentic way, the original thought, and I think this is so much more it translates also in social media today.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is what people are looking for for authenticity and and real people, yeah.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this this helps me to survive in fronts in front of the camera and on the spotlight.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that this is what you asked.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I mean that uh it's amazing to hear that because I agree with you that I think Gen Z has done that, they demand authenticity.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really cool.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I love that.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting you say about the camera thing because that's right.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when I first discovered the brand, there wasn't you weren't so much in front.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: You had the products were there and they spoke for you, and your work spoke for you, but you weren't always on camera and marketing and all that.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't I'm gonna say something about that because I always try to I always also told to Sephora and Olden always, I this is one of my most important things about the brand and the products that the product itself has to be the star.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is like people should not purchase indie products because of me, they should purchase because they really believe in the product and understand what it does and why it's existing.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's if they really love it, they will get it and they will love it.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not about me, it's about the product.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I always thought that talking about the technique, the product, the uh the looks, this is what people it's just it was my vision that people will fall in love with that because you can never know.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying that uh people should really fall in love with the creation and not with just a face with somebody, even though I can understand that, but today I understand the connection with me together because I'm the messenger of this vision, and it is my vision, uh, and it's a work with the whole team as well that comes to life.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's a whole thing, and and I'm happy that I can give that message and the communication is through me, but it's about the product, and I love that.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I mean that's the that's the thing though, like, and I also want to ask you because there are so many brands, and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I understand people want to be like the face of the brand and they want to kind of put their personality out there, and that becomes the brand, it becomes the marketing and to each their own, but like it's a different concept, right?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: But then how do you because you've created, like we're talking about with like the Bloom palette, with the bronze palette, you've created literal category-altering products.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: How is that for you when you watch the industry coming back to you those creations and taking inspiration from that?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is it exciting for you?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or I mean, how do you look at something like that when you see these products come up again and again?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's super flattering when somebody's inspired and all of this.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, it's I I maybe I'm too I'm too humble to say that I'm humble in this.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can I don't I don't even look at this.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm analyzing myself all the time, criticizing myself all the time.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm a perfectionist, so I'm always looking at the negative side of myself.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even deal with thoughts about oh, this person or this brand is inspired by myself.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And okay, but when I see somebody duping or trying to dupe, this make this, I'm this is not nice, you know.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is like not nice.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: But but getting inspired is it's flattering, it is, but I don't really have a lot of thought about those things.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just doing my job and I'm enjoying it, and I'm not thinking about what I where I do really get emotional about is uh is young people or people that want to start their journey as a makeup artist, as a brand, and then I'm an inspiration for them.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is something else.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: This this this touches my heart.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is nice because you're kind of an example uh of the next generation or something like that.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: So this is nice.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is like really honoring.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I just want to say, as someone who can, I don't have to be humble, I'll do this for you.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: I've watched people do pure products, and I'm always like, okay, I remember where this comes from.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Your fans know where it comes from every time.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen it happen and I've seen you create, like I said, just the most iconic things.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And when you watch it come up as a fan, as a consumer, we pay attention to that.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I hope you know that that like it is so your work stands.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly do because I'm reading all the comments, not only on our account, but everywhere I'm reading.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's just interesting to me to see how people think their opinions, and what they want, what they don't like.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is so important for me.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I do and I reply to most of the people that are leaving comments on my account.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I reply to them, my team as well, but also myself in person, too, because this connection has to stay real.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter how popular you become or how big you become, you have to stay the same person because this is the starting, this is where people started to follow you and and and love your brand.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's a whole package.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna just leave it out.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna disappear or it's not fair.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you take the feedback.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I get the feedback and I'm super happy about it.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Super, this is super touching.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's interesting because you brought up like artistry, right?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you brought up like people getting inspiration on the artistry side from your work.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: What is one of the most, I guess, standout moments for you as a professional artist that will always be in your memory that stands out from either maybe early stages or early days for you?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: That really kind of resonates as an artist?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like was there ever like a was there ever like a moment where you were like, oh my gosh, I'm doing what I love.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm finally doing what I love.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: The day I started doing makeup, I was already there.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, my husband convinced me to become a makeup artist because I wanted to step out a little bit out of the fashion world because I became a mom, and I just didn't want to leave my kid too much.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And working in the industry is like being a lot out and waking up early in the morning before the baby to uh wakes up and things like that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: So after a couple of months, I did it anyway.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he convinced me, and the moment when I started uh doing makeup, and I loved makeup all my life, I was the model with the professional makeup bag coming to the fashion artist.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: This was me, and uh so I loved makeup first of all, and so I kind of but he convinced me and it made a click, and I was so okay, I'm doing this the right way.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Then I just enjoyed every single day, every single day.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I just love the artistry.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's the art that I used to have in painting.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had it from then from until now in makeup and now even creating products.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of here is where the science come in, comes in together with the art.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just really, really having fun every single day with all the crises and all the you know like hard stuff of the company and which is which is normal, and uh I still enjoy and love it.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And but the moment where I really had this crazy moment of acknowledging actually, wait, is this a dream or is this reality?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was when I started out with Beautylish 2016, three months before Sephora.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sephora sent out an email, Sephora wants you, and I was like, I don't know.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was like so everything happened so fast, I was like scared a little bit because I was never in a mindset of I want to make it big, I want to make it global.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was never into that.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was more about the the formulas and the artistry, and and uh yeah, so when we saw the very first window exposures at Sephora and the animations that were all around across the US, this was like un it's it is unreal.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: But today, looking back, I I see brands going up and down, up and down, or up and then down, and for us it's kind of continue staying true to our DNA, and it strengthens the brand, and it it becomes like this this icon, I think, and and people want to see more, especially now after the the successful complexion launches that were insanely good, and so so I kind of see see the we see the brand going up, up, up all the time, but not in a crazy way, it's going safely and steadily up and healthy, and and this gives like a really, really good feeling.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is like pinching moments all the time.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I love it because it's interesting, yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, your brand has like consistently just yeah grown, it just keeps growing.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love it, it's wonderful to see that.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and I mean, it's interesting because I think for entrepreneurs now you brought up such an good point where this that steadiness is not what people chase anymore, they chase instant gratification.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: I see it all the time.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're every everyone like you want to be a founder now, you want to have your own brand, all these things.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: But what does that mean at the end of the day?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like people don't pause to think about that.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if you were to give, I mean, I'd love to get your advice because I we have a lot of people that tune in, they're new entrepreneurs, especially women.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: What is your advice about?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think you should always, yeah.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you should always think about or be staying original and true to your DNA, but at the same time, not don't forget that the world is going forward and changing a little bit.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of have to emerge, you kind of have to adapt a little bit, but still staying true to your brand.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of a combination, it's it's not a formula, it's like something and and I'm listening also a lot from it comes from my stomach, like instinct.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So these are things that you have to be always connected to, I believe.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you try to do something like others do, you're losing your your your your signature, image, concept.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you want to be successful for the long term, you have to stay true to your brand and and and innovate.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense, and I love that because yeah, I mean I think that's the main message.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody really thinks about these things.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you get it, and sometimes you you just I think get lost.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but not it's hard to do that because sometimes you don't feel inspired, you don't have the vision, you don't, or you don't have the the that stomach feeling what to do right.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's leaving you alone, and then you kind of wait.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have to concentrate, wait, I need holiday, I need to relax, I need to do something to change the atmosphere just to understand to go back to myself.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's it can be in in artistry, in in vision, in business, it can be in anything, but you have to stay.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to stay successful, I believe in being original and not losing that connection with yourself.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is, I think, the the main thing.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And there are downs.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter, it's not the it's not just always succeeding, it's not about that.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh you have to accept failures, you have to accept uh things and learn all the time.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Always take everything as your school and a lesson, and and don't really give up because life is not always pink, not at all.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you just have to from when you get low, you you have to pick yourself up and continue.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can just only grow from there, and this is something that also personally, but also in in professional life, you should.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that so much, and everything you're saying is so it resonates so deeply.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's so many people that need to hear that.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think they need people need to hear this because there's a lot of like there's a lot of interest these days, especially in makeup, because people see makeup and they think this is my place.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: I can express myself here, I can be myself here, and then you get lost, and then you lose a part of yourself because you've tried to fit in so much.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I I love everything you said, but and I would love to know like, is there something you're excited about in the industry right now?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like something that you're you're seeing happen that you're like, oh, I like this.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super happy about the recognition of all the makeup artist brands.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I was waiting for that era.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was like two years ago, one of the manufacturers was talking to me.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the this and that and this and that type of brands are going down.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Next one is luxury.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: What is the next?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, makeup artists.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Makeup artist brand.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: That was like two years ago.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about it has to happen, and it happens, and I'm so happy about that because we are the real professionals, and I mean other brands are also professionals, but this is just a different perspective of that uh of creating products.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: It just comes from a from a different experience, and I think it's a world on its own, and I'm super happy about this recognition.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna do and it was and it was uh influencer brands and it was da-da-da-da, and cooperates, uh and it was like Natasha.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, that was the big thing with your like I said that when we first started, it was when I discovered your brand, I was like, oh my god, this just made my life so easy.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Having that as a consumer was like having a teacher with you, and that's where I feel like yeah, I I love that you're excited about that because I think for consumers, it's been amazing to have all these brands that are by professional makeup artists.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, for me, it was always important that I wanted a brand where there is a professional person that you can trust and can explain to you how to use the product and how it it why it was made like that, for what, and which type of solutions you expect from the from this product, and a person that can really really explain about it and and teach you how to use it because we want to look good, you know, like with makeup or at least have fun and want to know how to when when you see my videos that I really have a lot of millions of views, and then they're like fun videos within beautiful added flow.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and and we're always thinking, like, wait, but they have to see the final, the final blend, you know, like they have to see those little things that can help to uh to realize okay, I don't do that.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be fun to watch, but at the same time, it also has to educate still.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I see feedback, and people are loving those videos, and they're helping them to create the looks, and this this is so satisfying, really.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're such an icon.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just sitting here so fine.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I don't know.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: I just I feel like it's so rare to see someone like you and and to see what you've done and achieved and you continue to achieve.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's so rare.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I just feel like there's so much that can be learned here.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: And just like almost like your brand is like a huge case study for anybody in entrepreneurship, I think, because it's just been so tried and true, and it's it consistently stays that way.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, that foundation launch and the concealer launch that came out, it was like you knock it out of the party.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, she did it again.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: I actually in the one of your previous questions, I forgot to talk about that.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, this was one of those moments in life where I said, Oh my gosh, I made it with complexion products.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was my dream.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's the hardest, the hardest accepted mascara, the hardest category.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this was really because and it took me for so long to work with the chemist because it's not only a vision, it is also I'm super involved in the structure of the formulations.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not only giving them a brief and then I'm kind of you know checking the submissions and telling well like this.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going into the raw materials that actually I'm super happy that I have crazy access to the newest innovations and raw materials that I just invented, and I can see them, touch them, and think about what I can do with this raw material, for example.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, this can give me also an inspiration of how and what type of product I want to develop.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that I never heard of.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know that I'm really probably might be, I'm careful here, the only one maybe in the world because from the manufacturer's side that they are the ones that are creating those raw materials, they are telling me and showing this to me personally before they even do something with that.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: And with this is something really unique and outstanding.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I'm always in search with the RD and uh what are the newest raw materials that we have?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we can use this.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe in the foundation, for example, we just I didn't just add active ingredients into the formula.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: I use the raw materials to act like an active ingredient, and the active ingredient sometimes also is a part of the formula and of the texture.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is so different.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this you cannot copy, it's it's really unique, and everything is made from scratch.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super here, I'm not so humble.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Here I feel like really happy and uh and super proud, I can say it's hard for me to say that, but it's true.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy about those formulas because it's really, really, really, really, really hard.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and seeing people loving them was for me, I cannot even describe that.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: I went on social media, on on stories, I looked like I just woke up and I saw the sold-out page on Sephora with the Heigland Foundation.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, do you remember, guys?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have my team here.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember that?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: I look like, I don't know, like what with you know, my hair like this and the half pyjama, and then I just say thank you.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, guys, you're crazy.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really one of the craziest moments for me and also for all of us because we were working so hard on this, yeah.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so I love that you you told me about the RD side.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's like nobody talks about that with makeup.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like no one discusses that.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there so what is your favorite part then about R like the RD?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's my favorite part.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love going into the actual structure.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the the the conversations and uh the brainstorming with with the RD, with chemists, uh with with the kind of visions that I have, it's really hard to interpret something from what you imagine into something that is possible to make in chemistry.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: And when you go, I can do this only when I understand the true structure of the ingredients within the formula that can do this, this, and that.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh some kind of so sometimes when I started actually working with chemists in the beginning, like 10 years ago, more than 10 years ago, we didn't, me and my husband, we didn't really know if I will be able to translate and to explain and to achieve in chemistry what I imagine.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the chemists themselves, they're kind of how how do you actually know those things that you're telling us?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't know how I know it's like.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a I don't know how to explain it.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: Something in instinct.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Intuitive.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's intuitive for you.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Probably experience as well.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: And my mommy can maybe some little bit of talent.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes it just comes to you.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of understand what they are working with and explaining them what to add and what to take out.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: And all those things.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: So in those submissions, I'm truly a part of designing the structure or the formula.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's I think different from most of the founders.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: What I know.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know it from the RDs and from the chemists that they work differently with other brands.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: I just do what I think.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I do what I think is right.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I know this from them.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And this was, and this is my favorite part: the invention of something that doesn't exist.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: So beautiful.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the integration of science and all of that.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like no one this never gets talked about.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know why.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Color cosmetics and like makeup is literally beautiful chemistry.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful how this works.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I that's so exciting for me to hear that you actually you get in there and you do drive it from that lens.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's something that I think, yeah, I I haven't heard of anyone talking about that in the makeup world.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: I hear a lot about it on the skincare side, but from the makeup side, it's hard to find that.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know that skincare is uh you know that as a teenager, I actually I was when I was 12 years old, I was I had acne, and and this is the the the age where you don't want to have it and you want to look perfect.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I had a whole line of you know, the whole system of skincare.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I think I had four steps or something of this.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking with you about 1983.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like already then.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was evil shape, it was like uh a cosmetic brand.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and my mom was so angry, you're only 12 years old.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you doing putting all of those things, those chemical stuff on yourself?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: Da-da-da-da.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: But this was honestly already my passion back then.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that also it was interesting for me to see why this product does this and that.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, kind of it started already there as well, together with the whole science side of my mom and and the art and all of those things.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and I always dreamt of hybrids in makeup when I create a makeup and color cosmetics and and um to use and combine it to involve also skincare into that.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not instead of skincare, it's just a healthier color cosmetic product that you put in your skin.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because me, as a dancer in the 80s, I suffered from waxy heavy foundations while you sweat on stage for two hours, and everything goes into your skin, and the day after I look like a Strasselbrutchen Germans, like a little cake with a lot of you crumbles.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was horrible.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: The skin was so badly textured, and I was young, and there was no reason for that.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when I started creating products, I always wanted skin to look healthy and to and to uh feel healthy while you're wearing makeup.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And don't dry your don't kill your skin with bad ingredients, and that's why I think the generation of hybrids, especially in in complexion products, is so important, and I'm going to develop into that direction a lot.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, yeah.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean I feel like you've always been there.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like as a I've I've seen that I think your products were for me, they were always some of the only ones I my skin could tolerate.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: I have really sensitive skin.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, makeup was always very tricky, and I never had any issues with any of your products.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like it never broke me out.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't even even if I slept in it in your 20s, you sleep in your makeup, and I never had problems.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: So like it shows that you it come you come from this understanding of skin health as well.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: I always say that if you have foundation on or concealer, it's better, it's healthier to be with that product on your skin than without.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Go out, and this is I totally believe that.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this has been amazing, it has been such a full circle moment for me.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I I just thank you so much, Natasha.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is amazing.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was such a fun conversation, and you're so so sweet.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's such an honor.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing, amazing questions, and and this chat was just it was perfect.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was my honor, and I can't wait for everyone to just keep discovering your products.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything coming up that you can share with us?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna put you on the spot, but um I can excite you that we're doing something super exciting in the lip category.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: So and bigger things, we're continuing with complexion, yes, and we're doing really fun stuff.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to see everything soon.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I'm so excited! Yeah, that's so exciting.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, awesome.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 49:21
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• 50:26
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