Latest / The Rachelle Starr Podcast / From Skeptic to Champion | The Rachelle Starr Podcast Episode 10
Transcript
- Rachelle Starr: Hi, I'm Rochelle, the host of the Rochelle Star Podcast, where we equip the church to bring the hope and love of Jesus to women in the adult entertainment industry. We're going to be having honest conversations about what that really looks like. So if you've ever wondered how to engage in this space or how to do it well, you're in the right place. All right. Welcome back to the Rochelle Star Podcast. I'm so excited to have Pastor Dave Stone on the show today. One of my favorite people. I have so many stories. I don't know how we're gonna get through this podcast without telling each and every single one of them. But welcome Dave to the podcast. Thank you, Rochelle. I have looked forward to this ever since I got the invitation and ⁓ I'm so honored to be a part of this. And you know I love Scarlet Hope, so. ⁓ my gosh. It's gonna be a walk down memory lane. It is gonna be a walk down memory lane because all the way back, I think seventeen years ago would have been, I got a call from you and the call went a little bit like this. Rochelle, this is Pastor Dave Stone here. I'd love to see about meeting with you ⁓ at a day of your choice. I'd like to hear what you're doing. I've heard you're doing some interesting work over there in in the strip clubs, and I would like to s find out more about that. And so we schedule a time to meet. The backstory is I was leading an all-staff meeting ⁓ at the time, around four hundred staff members at Southeast, and ⁓ ⁓ somehow I I took a shot at Scarlet Hope because I'd been hearing about this ministry, a ministry to girls in the adult entertainment industry, and it made absolutely no sense to me the concept of going to a strip club and that people would let you come in and share the gospel. So I thought it was kind of crazy. Ludicrous. And so I took a passing swipe at it in ⁓ the staff meeting. And I think I followed it up with something like ⁓ it it sounds like my accountability group that meets at Hooters, you know? and both swipes got a good laugh, you know. And so afterwards this sweet gal from our Indiana campus, Mandy Liptek comes up to me and she said, ⁓ hey, I just want you to ⁓ know that I serve with that ministry and ⁓ I think that you really need to find out more about it before you take shots at it. Wow. It was That's brave. Very convicting and ⁓ she said it in a sweet way. Yeah. And ⁓ it probably w had about three or four more lines in there. And so I felt like, you know, I gotten a good laugh from it. ⁓ I owed it to sweet Mandy that I did a little checking out of it. And so, ⁓ I said, Okay, well my wife and I will see if we can get together. So we Called you up. I'm sure you didn't know what was going on. And ⁓ so we met you for lunch. You wanna take it from there? Because in our first two minutes of meeting each other what what happens? ⁓ yes great favorable attention step that you're gonna use. Yes. With all due respect. When I received the call though, I wasn't a member of Southeast and I didn't know who you were. At the time. So we sit down and I'm just this naive twenty-three year old girl sitting down with this megapastor that I didn't know, and I spill my iced tea all over your lap. Yeah, yeah. I mean and and I I wish somehow that your listeners could understand the size of the glass because it was like one of those jumbo gulp ones or something where You know, how did they get sixty four ounces in the glass? But somehow they did. But yeah, so that was in the first few minutes and ⁓ but we laughed about it and I It was memorable. I felt sorry. For me. I did. I did because, you know, that's not a a good way to make a first impression. I know. I know, it's true. I needed to set up. All of the first impressions with every woman you would ever meet from our ministry. And if you could get through this, you could get through that. You're right. But you had a much more normal name than any of the girls that I met for the years to come. ⁓ so true. Which is is part of what happened that day, actually, is I remember You were telling me you just, you know, you didn't quite understand. And this was the actually this is an interesting conversation that we had seventeen ish years ago. I still have this conversation today with many pastors. They don't understand why we go into the clubs, how they let us in, and all of that, and we'll get into that much later. But I shared a story with you of a woman and how our ministry had walked alongside her, shared the gospel with her. That exact story in my memory was a woman named Brooklyn and she was homeless. She was nineteen. She had nowhere to sleep. So she was working at the club that somebody told her to go. Her she had no parents, no support system. And I remember sharing this story with you and tears welled up in your eyes. And and I think something started to shift in our meeting, even with iced tea all over you. Take us take me back there. Yeah. When all of a sudden stories have a name attached to them and a face, even though I'd never seen this face, ⁓ you start to think of different people throughout church world and throughout all the I used to do college age ministry and had had a couple of girls who had gone into the strip clubs and ⁓ trying to talk them out of that decision and so now all of a sudden as you're talking about Brooklyn, I'm seeing the faces of people in my college age ministry years before who had gone that route. And ⁓ and then you encouraged me just to come sometime to do a Bible study. And it I I've got to tell you, it was so far fetched when we first sat down and we had a very long lunch because I was not about to get up until my my pants had dried. So when we left the next day. so ⁓ But there were different things that that you said that really brought it home. We couldn't Beth and I couldn't understand why a club owner would let someone in to do that that seemed so counter cultural to everything that they stood for. But we learned that some of these people actually care about them and the concept of a warm, ⁓ hot cooked meal, home home meal, ⁓ was attractive to them. And so, you know, what harm could be done? And we started seeing how, man, this is really working. So you invited me to do something at a Bible study. ⁓ and I came and did this Bible study and That was when everything changed for Beth and for me because ⁓ now they weren't your stories. Mm-hmm. They were faces and names that we knew. And on one of the first nights that we ever did a Bible study there was a young gal there named Lolly that you introduced us to. And ⁓ We ate across from her. She didn't even stay for my my talk. Yeah, which I'm accustomed to. ⁓ I know how I understand that. I just figured she'd heard me before. You know. So we asked her how we could be praying and she was in the industry and so we we started praying every night for Lolly. And ⁓ you texted us a couple months later and said, Man, there's been a spiritual breakthrough in her life and ⁓ so we got together with her and ate dinner with her. And I'll never forget because at the end of it, ⁓ you know, she had quit dancing and ⁓ I said to her, I said, Okay, ⁓ now Lolly is the name that you introduced us by, but now you're going by your given name, Lauren. I said, you know, we still call you Lolly in our mind. I know God knows who you are, but what what do you want us to call ⁓ call you from here on out? And ⁓ she said, ⁓ call me Lauren. She said, I buried Lolly three weeks ago. And You know, and she's doing well. She's still doing well. We still stay in touch. That was seventeen years ago. And you know, would text at Christmas and on her birthday. ⁓ we got together with her about two or three years ago. Actually took grandkids past to to see her and ⁓ because she knows a lot of ⁓ and So yeah, it becomes real when you start to see that this is a person who's in in need of Christ and I had the privilege of getting to baptize her. And ⁓ you know, there's so many stories I'm I get emotional on these because ⁓ you're hearing a snippet, you're hearing one snippet and as most of these stories go, you know, it's not ⁓ okay, I quit and then all of a sudden everything is smooth sailing and They're a suburban mom married to some guy with ⁓ with three kids. It doesn't doesn't work like that. It's two steps forward and three steps back sometimes. Yeah. You know, I think one of the things with I mean so many things that you just said is like we know snippets of people's stories but yet largely because our audience is, you know, Christians, we we judge somebody's entire life. based on these snippets of stories or snippets of behaviors that we see. And so as you you've stated, like you got to know her and you still you and Beth still know her. And and it changed a l ⁓ it changed everything for Lolly and Lauren. I it changed everything for Lauren. And I think that if if you could just help pastors listening to this understand the like what we What was it like before you knew the names? Before you knew Lauren and that perception about what they do and who they are and then after you know them, obviously you've shared how much it impacted you, but I think it's important 'cause people still feel and they're still in isolation or an us versus them mentality in the church. Yeah. I I would say my understanding the skepticism and I think it's ⁓ important To understand that. And I say the same thing with mega churches. If you drive past a church and, you know, you hear people take shots of that, and I'm I say, you know, I understand that. I would be suspicious of something like that. But have the integrity to to check it out. And that's what I would say when it comes to Scarlet Hope. You know, you all have launched these ministries all around the country and ⁓ God has done incredible things through your vision and through this ministry. But for those who are skeptical or keeping it at arm's length, I'd say just just check it out. You know, I w we'll support missionaries that will go to France and they might not have a convert for three years. And ⁓ and here I mean there are decisions that are being made right and left time and time a again, ⁓ every single week. And you're you're seeing ⁓ that this is fertile soil. And the reason the soil is fertile is because, man, their hearts are so broken. What I didn't anticipate in getting to know so many of these situations and our family getting to know them. was the pain and the heartache. I mean, I can't tell you how many times my wife would say to me, ⁓ there but for the grace of God, you know, go I. And that that could be me. And Beth just said it last week on somebody that we were reaching out to. She said, you know that That could be one of our daughters. That could be ⁓ that could be me. If I would have grown up in the home life or non home life, I should say, that the majority of these girls. You know, I remember one time, you know how they just kept opening up more and more to me. I was always amazed I would tell you when we started getting together with them at our house, for a Christmas banquet, which is an interesting story in itself, how that came about. But ⁓ I would give them those cards and I'd have say I'm gonna have five questions. I want you guys to answer them and you can keep them anonymous. Yeah, there they are. Here we are. That's that's one year's, that's another year's right there. Yeah. ⁓ that's two thousand fourteen. You know. I mean, Dave Dave, the fact that you even kept these cards and and know these women by name and by face and remember so many things about them just speaks volumes to one, how we are to love people like all people for sure, but these are these are Scarlet Hope women that Dave and Beth walked alongside and they would write their hearts out on and prayers out to them. I mean this one I'm just gonna say day it says, Dave, I'm at my wits end and I don't know what to do. I can't dance anymore and it seems like I can never get ahead. And she just pours her heart out to them and and asking them and she felt confident and comfortable doing that. I think that's a very insightful thing that as we equip the church, as we like walk alongside pastors, that we this is an example of what is possible. You know, I I think back to ⁓ I think it was the third year that we we did that and ⁓ you know, I had a level of trust that's been built up and some newer people there's always newer people, you know, it's a transient group, we understand that. But I asked a a very specific question and I mean you talk about going layers beneath. I I just asked ⁓ yes or no, have you ever been abused? And ⁓ It was between ninety and ninety five percent that had been sexually abused. And didn't let ⁓ put their name on it. but ⁓ when you start realizing some of the pain that these girls have gone through in what their view of, you know, one year I asked the question, ⁓ what's the perfect man like? You know, one person said, Somebody that doesn't hit me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know. And ⁓ you get a peek into their life and you start to understand why they've made some poor choices and why they continue in that cycle. And that's what I would want church leaders to know is that these are these are broken people. ⁓ they might not have their act together. I I remember Talking about this in an elders meeting one time at ⁓ Southeast and one of the guys, you know, just honestly said, Yeah, you know, but the those those dancers, they're all rich and they all ⁓ you know, they make so much money. ⁓ I said, called them by name and said, I I would have thought the same thing. I really would have thought the same thing. But I I had that picture of the Christmas album from the last year in in my office and ⁓ man I showed showed ⁓ that group. I said, These girls are decked out, they are dressed up ⁓ Rishol Rochelle told ⁓ to be modest but they I said, Do you want to be casual or dressed up? And you'll never I'll never forget that first year you said, ⁓ no, they're gonna come dressed up and they were dressed up. But I said out out of all these girls, I said one of them has a car. One girl out of all those girls ha has a car. And it was about four months later we were on a retreat with the elders and ⁓ that guy said today I want us to pray for Scarlet Hope. Mm. Wow. You know? So I'm just telling you when you start to understand the stories behind a a church moose from being adversarial or leery or suspicious into saying, ⁓ my word, how can we make a difference? Yeah. You know, they start seeing you in the baptistry baptizing people or You know, or or me with with with someone in there and all of a sudden they start to see life change. Or they see a crazy stretch of girls coming down to sit with my wife down in the front row and we've got these seats saved f for them. Yeah, yeah. We had that for a couple of years where we we never knew who was gonna pop up from Scarlet Hope that was gonna sit with Beth and s and with Sam. Yeah, yeah. And Sadie. So Actually that's a great I okay, man, we have so many things to I wanna cover. I wanna go back to this Christmas party because people might you know, who have not heard about it, ⁓ how did it come up? The Dave and Beth would throw and and their kids. ⁓ specifically Sam was a server at the in the evening and just served the women and and got to know them and then he would bring his friends along. Don Gates, I remember being there several times. Yeah. Just such a I I remember thinking, man, I want my son to be like these guys, but you weren't afraid to involve your family in the ministry of Scarlet Hope. And I think that that's so beautiful and I think it's a it really made a massive impact on the women that you you brought people into your home. So let's go to the Christmas story. Yep. was ⁓ one time in late like late October, early November I was preaching and there's that passage of ⁓ Jesus n sa saying, you know, hey, when you throw a banquet, don't invite people who will just invite you to come to their banquet. So it just goes back and forth and it just goes on and on. He said, Instead I want you to go out in the highways and byways and you invite the overlooked, the poor, the disabled and he goes through this long list. It's all a forgotten people. Who cannot repay you by inviting you And he says, ⁓ you invite them. So I finished preaching, walk down, invitation s n we had an invitation at that time when people would come forward, you know. And I look and my wife is crying in the front row. And I'm like, you know, I I knew it wasn't that great of a sermon, but you know, you don't need to cry in front of everybody. This really is you're really throwing me under the bus. And so I said, Are you okay? And she said, No. I'm like, Okay, you know, ⁓ What's going on? And she looks at me eyeball to eyeball and she says, I know what we're supposed to do for Christmas. Mm. And I said, Okay, I don't know if this is the time to have this conversation, but what's that? She said, We're gonna throw a party, a Christmas party for the Scarlet Hope girls. And that verse had just really resonated with her. ⁓ and so I called you up and said, Hey, Beth has this idea of you know, and man, you remember the first year we had it did we do buses or did we do funeral home limos? What was it, a bus or funeral home limos? Funeral home limos. ⁓ I'm sorry, we're gonna laugh our heads off God. Yes, it was. It was. Yeah. And so I mean we we did it upright. ⁓ yeah. And ⁓ Beth, I mean, she has a gift of hospitality. And we had no idea what we were creating 'cause we did it for five years and we had no idea that in the future that the second girls would come in the door, they would race to the table and put their coats on the seat where they wanted to be. You know, we had like four tables, you know, a card table here and this one there and one downstairs next to our smoking lounge outside. Remember that we had the smoking lounge? You know I'd make them go far off your deck. You know, d we do not want that smoke cell. So ⁓ but yeah, it became something really fun and ⁓ and they got dressed up and we just wanted them to feel loved and valued and special. And our son and daughter, Savannah had already left the house, then ⁓ son and daughter, Sadie and Sam, just made it so special for them. And ⁓ we had all these different components. We had the food. ⁓ we had questions they had to answer at their table. and then we had entertainment. We would play crazy games. Man, we'd do some crazy games in the basement. And then ⁓ after that ⁓ we'd sing some carols and then I would give a devotion or my son would give a devotion and ⁓ and then one year we split ⁓ up and prayed. And they got in prayer groups. And ⁓ I've got this picture. We've got a picture of Jesus on the wall and there's my son praying with three girls from the industry. And ⁓ Jesus is in the background. And I just thought, man, that's a it's one of my favorite pictures of my life is seeing that. And then as they came to the upstairs, ⁓ we'd gotten Beth's Bible study had gifts And they each got a gift that had been made for them. I had seventy five dollar gift cards for ⁓ from Walmart or some place. And then as they headed out the door I gave each of them a a letter that I had written to them and it would have a verse that they could put on their mirror at home or wherever. ⁓ and that was their verse. And I had picked a different verse for each each girl. And then when they get on the bus My son would be standing there as I got on the bus and he gave him each a red rose. Yeah. Just so that they know that they were cherished by God. So a lot of different wrinkles in in five years of doing that from hoverboard lessons. That was a fun year. We we had three hoverboards there and Sam giving lessons to all these gals and me giving lessons and then to see them when they would get on there. Yeah. ⁓ my god. We got a lot of stories. I brought a magician in one time. You remember that? I do remember that. That was great. ⁓ boy. I mean, the intentionality. You know, ⁓ many of those women would say to me, This was the only Christmas experience like a family experience that they had ever had in their life. And ⁓ and I I just Beth made it so homey Beth is incredible. She just made it so special for them. Yes. And I I mean it was it was it was special for it marked our family. And the guys, you know, Sammy we get two buddies and they would, you know, they would dress up and suit and tie and man they had to have their manners. And they were in high school. Yeah, yeah. I mean they'd say their yes ma'ams, no ma'am. And people would say to next Monday, you what'd you do over the weekend? I hung out with twenty strippers. What? Yeah. ⁓ they they had a heyday. And they were so respe I mean, they still talk about your family to this day when I see ⁓ I mean, they're they loved that and it was such a beautiful example of I think like what heaven's gonna be. like a glimpse of it. But before you leave that, I just wanna say kudos to my wife because ⁓ most wives wouldn't do that and most wives wouldn't allow ⁓ their husband to put themselves in that setting. ⁓ you know, and every c thing of course was always there was accountability there and you know, but just I just think it's pretty cool that my wife would even Do that in ⁓ and she loved getting to just use that gift of hospitality. Yeah. Yeah. Beth, I mean, you and Beth are a perfect example of especially to the women, of what is possible with the Lord. Like how you can have a marriage that's centered on God and centered on loving God and loving others and I think that just was it it still is a beautiful picture of that, to this day. Can I interrupt one more time? Yes. Yes. This is your podcast. The last no, no. The the last year that we did it on that fifth year. We were getting ready to move and we're gonna move farther farther away from where you all were. ⁓ my mom had a heart attack. During that party. And I grabbed everything and left. And ⁓ before I left, those girls circled around me. I mean, I was gone in two minutes, but those girls circled around me and prayed and I can still remember the fervency in which they prayed. And it was it was powerful and I I drove as fast as I could to Cincinnati and you all left the house about half an hour later and wrapped everything up and then Sam and Sadie and Beth ⁓ joined about an hour and a half later. ⁓ by my mom's bedside. So ⁓ yeah, but that's a s very special memory to me because the prayers that were offered in that window were so desperate and they were from girls who were desperate. Mm and you could tell the intimacy that they had with Christ. It would have been a totally different prayer if it would have been in any other setting. But to hear these gals pour their hearts out and just utterly weeping and gnashing of you know just saying, Lord, we you're the only one that can do something here. And ⁓ the Lord Lord gave us another five days with her and she left the hospital and then and then she ⁓ had another heart attack and passed away. And ⁓ but I'll never forget just ⁓ I clung to those prayers as I drove a hundred miles per hour up to Cincinnati. Mm-hmm. I'm glad you brought that up because I mean these women understand the depths of pain and suffering more than most people that in more than my myself, you know. Yeah. And they can minister to us. I mean, I think they have done that in my life and I know they've done that in your life. And I I just think it's something that's unexpected that the Lord, the kingdom, is is upside down. It's it's not what we think it like we have to go out and be ministering to all of these people and yes, that is true. But when you are in relationship with these with individuals like this in a ⁓ women a part of the ministry, they can minister to us ⁓ j just like that in your time of need. They can they exactly they stepped up. And it was. It was our our time of need and they and they did step up. That's so sweet. ⁓ well there's another story that we wanna get to and that was about Lauren who we baptized together. And You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Different Lauren. Different Lauren, yes. Blonde Lauren. And ⁓ and sh that's such a sweet story because she I remember sh I she was eighteen when we met her in the ministry and she was we met her through a pregnancy center, but she had b she was being trafficked. And ⁓ and then sh she gets to know you and gets to know Beth and just r you all really ministered to her and then we eventually got to baptize her at South East. Yeah. And ⁓ you know, I'll never forget a few weeks before that baptism. ⁓ yeah, that was a special, special day. But ⁓ she was really wrestling with ⁓ you know, one foot in, one foot out, one foot in, one foot out, ⁓ of the industry. And ⁓ she ex had explained to me her phone number and just how valuable her phone number was. And of course I didn't have a clue how all this stuff works. And so she's telling Beth and I that and I said, Well, you know what you need to do. You know, I mean y you need to cut ties and in your your case you need to you need to get a new phone and you need to get rid of that old number and not use that again. And ⁓ she really wrestled with that, Rochelle. And it's about two weeks later, ⁓ Beth and I got a text message, each of us at the same time from someone we didn't know. And you know, so I was like, Okay, well and ⁓ and it simply said, This is Lauren, this is my new phone number, I got rid of the other one. And it had a heart and a prayer sign after it. And man, I just thought I wondered how much money that phone number was worth to her. And it's almost like the rich young ruler where, you know, Jesus could always tell what the obstacle was between that individual and him. It's the only time in all the Bible that Jesus ever says, Sell everything you have and give the money to the poor and ⁓ you know, that's why he says the rich young ruler and the man walks away and his Bible says his face fell. ⁓ you know, because he loved money so much. And when she sent that new number and got rid of her phone, it was like she sold everything. And ⁓ it's tough for us to try to quantify in our world, in our existence, with bank accounts and retirement funds and a house that's paid off what it would be like for a a young twenty something year old who has a lot of attention from from guys and who has regulars to just cut cut that off. And So we learn a lot about commitment and faith even from these young ladies and the sacrifices that they're called to make when they come to Christ. Wow, I I actually have never seen her story or that piece of her story ⁓ in that way. And you just preached at I think to I mean, again, I feel like we need a part two of this podcast 'cause we have more stories to get to, but ⁓ I think you just preached at Southeast on the prodigal or I'm sorry, on the woman at the well. And I think this is a very applicable story to churches. ⁓ and to people listening. Why should we go out of our way, like Jesus did, for this woman at the well, and how he spoke to her, how he saw her, and then how something you said, and I said this in ⁓ our podcast last week, is You said she went out, she came to the well thirsty, but she went out a spring of living what a spring of life. And she went and told everybody. And that is what has happened with many, many, many women at Scarlet Hope is they came to Scarlet Hope desperate. And we met them in their desperation. But as they l encountered you and Beth, and as they encountered Southeast, and as they encountered ⁓ A new way of life. They have gone out and many now are telling everybody about that. They they encounter Jesus and they encounter Jesus through a variety of different ways that reach out to them and he's the one that changes. And in that story, you know, ⁓ when Jesus is using these metaphors of living water, you know, if you would have known who I I was, ⁓ then you would have asked me for living water and ⁓ and you would become a spring. And that's what I've seen that's happened. so many times with the girls who have come through the ministry of Scarlet Hope, who've been discipled and been poured into, and they are totally changed. They're transformed. Just like the Samaritan woman. You know, she she came carrying her shame, she left carrying her story, and then she wanted to share that story with everybody that she met. And that's what I've seen through so many ⁓ young ladies who have come through this ministry is Now they are that spring and they are sharing that story. Isn't that incredible? Yeah. I mean God's God's mission is always incredible. Yeah, but thank you for answering the call. I know there's somebody listening right now who is wrestling with maybe we should start something like this. ⁓ boy if you can i if your heart's beating faster as you hear, if you could only go back twenty years ago when God started laying this on Rochelle's heart. And ⁓ the fear and trembling of is this really what God wants me to do? Am I misreading this and and yet she kept taking it one step at a time and and God led her ⁓ to open up this ministry and maybe God's leading you to do something similar. And maybe you're a church leader and you're listening to this and you're saying, Okay, I've kept this at arm's length. ⁓ this would be a good use of our missions dollars, this would be a good ⁓ opportunity for ladies within our church to serve. You know, I didn't have any ongoing serving opportunity. I just would come speak at a Bible study every couple of years and ⁓ a a couple of times a year. And it was through those meals and those opportunities that it opened up doors for our family to do things in in unique ways. So we're only limited by our lack of creativity. And God can lay on your heart how it is that you could make a difference for hurting people in your community. I am so thankful that God gave you and Beth and your family such a creative heart for the women at Scarlet Hope. It's it's been a absolute joy of mine to be even just a witness to it is incredible. So, Dave, thank you for sharing with us today and thank you for being a part of Scarlet Hope all of these years through prayer and through with the women and Until we until we get to eternity and we have that banquet there and we get to see look around and see all of the faces that God ⁓ that Jesus transformed. I'm excited to ki continue this work. Amen. Well thank you for all that you do and keep it up, sister. Thank you for listening to the Rochelle Star podcast. If this conversation encouraged you or challenged you, I'd invite you to take the next step. Whether that's learning more, getting involved, or sharing this episode with someone else, at Scarlet Hope we believe consistent presence changes lives, and there's a place for you in this work. You can learn more at ScarletHope.org.