Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / Jeff Gluck Talks All Things NASCAR & Racing!

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Jeff Gluck Talks All Things NASCAR & Racing! · Kenny Wallace Media

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Hello everyone and welcome to the Kenny conversation brought
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to you by Jags, the leader in high performance aftermarket car
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parts. Remember to go to jags.com for
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everything you need for your vehicle.
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Well, there are reporters and then there are reporters.
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And this man is the journalist for The Athletic, and I think
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he's one of the best in America or if not the world.
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Everybody loves this guy. The great Jeff, Jeff, welcome to
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Kenny Conversation. I I don't know about everybody
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loving me. I mean maybe you're filtering
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out the the some of the Twitter mentions that I see.
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But thank you first of all for having me.
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When you messaged me, I was like, wait me on here, like did
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you text the wrong person or something like Are you sure?
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But no, I I appreciate it especially, I mean Missouri
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Sports Hall of Fame sitting next to Adam Wainwright now like I
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got to talk to you like his spot.
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I mean that's it's pretty good. So this is big for me.
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Stop it. So, hey, by the way, I said off
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air, I said. Boy, you look clean shaven.
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But you said you're getting ready for the holidays, huh?
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You know, I was, I had the beard going for a long time and I had
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it in my little logo, cartoon face even.
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And I remember when I first started the cartoon face thing,
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Dale Junior was like, you know, I don't think that you should do
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that for your cartoon face because you're always going to
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have to have this hat on and you're always going to have to
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have the beard. And when what happens when you
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want to change it up? And I was like, but then you
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know the years went by and I was like, well, I kind of got to
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keep the beard and I kind of got to keep the same hat or similar.
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And then like around July around the Chicago street race this
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year, I'm like, you know what I'm, I'm shaving the beard.
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And so I've, I've, I've done the shaving thing every day.
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But it's like part of the season, right?
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Like you get in the rhythm of the season Now I'm already, I
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don't even know what day it is in the offseason, you know.
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And I'm like, I've, I've gone a couple days that shade.
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I think I could. I can let it grow a little bit
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till Daytona or something, right?
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Yeah, well you know when I was in school, there was this girl.
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I was, I was a senior and this girl said, you know every time
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you shave you take a layer of skin off.
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And I believed her. But I I don't know.
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But anyway, I've shaved so much of my life, obviously being on
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TV and representing my sponsors and I'm like you right now.
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You know during the winter time we're just going to chill out
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give give my, give our faces a break.
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So I agree. So well, let, let's get to it.
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You are a Motorsports journalist and that means I see you
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everywhere, specifically NASCAR. But you were at Vegas for the
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Formula One event and I followed your every move.
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I was really interested and so was the NASCAR world.
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Everybody wants to hear what you have to say about Formula One
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kind of invading America somewhat, and I mean that light
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hearted, but what was your thought and what did you see at
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Las Vegas for Formula One? So you know, this was supposed
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to be in a lot of ways like the peak of F1's rise, right?
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Like F1's growing in America. What does that mean?
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You know, they're getting all these celebrities there and they
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have the. They have the flashiness and
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first they had the Miami Grand Prix last year, now they have F,
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they have the F1 Las Vegas Great Prix, it's the third one in
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America in a single year where they used to only have one a
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year, right? And to me the for, for the part
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of their rise, it was like, OK, what's this mean for NASCAR,
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right? Like is this a threat to NASCAR?
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How's, how does this affect NASCAR?
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And my feeling after Las Vegas sort of felt like it's not even,
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it's just two different things because here's why F1 is not,
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it's not even that they're not going for the NASCAR type of
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fan. They're they don't even seem
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interested in like I would say normal people would.
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I would classify myself as like a normal person, right.
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They are looking for the the sort of elite, wealthy, famous
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people with huge spenders and it's their attitude to me sort
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of comes off as like we've got this cool thing.
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It's it's for like the celebrities and the A listers
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and you know people with just that can just throw around
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$10,000 and not even think about it And if you want to try to
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come we'll make some you know $1500 per ticket seats available
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for you if you can afford it. If not you know what screw you.
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We don't really actually care about you And oh by the way like
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we they they had the their cheapest practice of the of the
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weekend was this Thursday Thursday night thing right.
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The track comes apart. It happens you know St. courses
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or whatever. So they say, oh, we got to
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cancel the the first practice. So then we'll have the second
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practice sometime. And they say, well, it's running
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late, you know what, we're going to kick all the fans out.
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We're going to kick everybody out and get paid for the
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tickets. And we're going to run the
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practice at from 2:30 in the morning to 4:00 AM.
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But our people, the security, are so tired, so we can't have
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any fans there. So everybody's got to leave.
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So all these people that paid all this money, you know, like
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the people that were working maybe like the retail jobs or a
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restaurant and they came and they said, you know what, we
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can't afford the big tickets. We can't afford the race up.
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But we could afford maybe this Thursday practice day.
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This is our one shot to see the cars.
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And they said, you know what we'll give you?
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We basically give you 8 minutes of practice, canceled it and
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then here's the kicker, no refunds.
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No money back. Sorry.
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Actually, they didn't even say sorry.
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People complain and they just said these things happen.
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Hope you understand. Here's a $200 voucher to our
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souvenir store, which by the way, is like one hat in F1,
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right? So to me, it was just like, I've
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never seen. It kind of blew my mind because
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I was like, wow, coming from the NASCAR side of things, where
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it's always like, look, we're trying to, we're trying to make
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the fans happy. We're trying to provide value to
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the fans. We want the fans to know that
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they can come here and do this and they can get these deals.
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And we're going to give this and we're going to give a free
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autograph session and we're going to do whatever, right?
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This was like we don't really care if you're mad or not.
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You're lucky to even be able to come to our event.
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Sorry that you only saw 8 minutes again, not even saying
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sorry and we're just going to move on and the everybody else,
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the rich people, they'll have a great weekend and that's it.
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So it just dawned on me like yeah this is not, this is not
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even the same type of crowd that NASCAR is going for.
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NASCAR is going for like sort of the the working class type
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people. The people that you know want to
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see the gritty type of racing that feel like they want to get
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close to their favorite drivers and know them and go all around
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America and all this stuff. This is just a totally to me
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it's like it's it's just yes it's it's racing.
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It's two forms of racing, but you can't even I I just, I felt
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like you can't even compare them at this point, you know?
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Yeah, that, that's that's a good take.
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And I've always thought, you know, I'm 60 years old, so I
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always think about the Titanic, right?
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You know, if you want the cheap rooms, you go to the bottom of
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the ship, you want the expensive rooms, you go to the top.
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But you're right, Formula One doesn't even offer anything for
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the for the working class thing, and I agree with that.
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So another thing that I noticed was I saw Don Hawk was out
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there. I saw Denny Hamlin was out
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there. What was your take on NASCAR's
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interest? Did you see any NASCAR
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executives out there? Do you think NASCAR was watching
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and trying to see what was up? I mean, I I certainly think that
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NASCAR would be wise to like look at some of the things
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they're doing right. Like you can't just ignore
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what's happening where people are paying attention to F1 and
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you know the the show elements that they're doing and all the
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stuff they have surrounding it and the parties and just the
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over the top extravaganza and all that stuff there.
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There's some things that NASCAR can take from it.
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But I I honestly feel like also like there's so much, so much
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that has to do with just the amount of money that is flowing
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through F1. There's so much money that they
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don't even know what to do with it.
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I mean when they can spend, I mean we thought NASCAR spent a
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lot of money on the Chicago street race, right?
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They probably spent 100 something $1,000,000 on that,
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right? F1 spent over half a billion
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dollars to put on this Las Vegas race.
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And then all they have all these corporate sponsors and teams and
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all the stuff who were just pouring their own money into it
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because they all want to be part of it.
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And like, you know, part of it is like, it's the big trendy,
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flashy thing right now. So people are trying to hop on
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board. Like it was kind of reminds me
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of when people started getting into like the English Premier
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League soccer 10 years ago. And everybody's like, well, you
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know, this is the next big thing.
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You got to have a team. And you know, it's, I think it's
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still growing in, in some ways soccer, but like it, it kind of
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plateaued like people see it and they they kind of move on a
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little bit and you have some fans that stay, some fans are
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like that. That's all right.
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So I think, you know, I think NASCAR should pay attention to
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some of the elements but not get too caught up in trying to chase
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what F1 is doing because this is, this is sort of been
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NASCAR's problem, right? The more you try to be something
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that you're not and get away from what has made you great,
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then that can actually weaken you in some aspects.
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Right. Like and and I think we've we've
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seen that with like sort of like the over reliance on road course
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racing or you know dirt racing. I mean yes, OK like I think
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maybe 1 dirt race a year could be OK, one street race a year
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could be OK. But like most of the people that
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fell in love with NASCAR fell in love for the ovals of various
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sizes. So the more you kind of get away
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from that and try to chase something else, well, that's
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maybe this new fan wants this and maybe we can appeal to the
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new fan by this. Sometimes I think it just comes
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down to like making your own product, like the best it can
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be. And then people are so excited
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about that product that they tell their friends, hey, you got
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to check this out. And their friends, like, why are
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they so passionate about this? Maybe I need to watch this
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instead of like, yeah, we got our fans, we got our great group
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here, but like, let's go outside and try to get this, this
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demographic, this demographic. I don't, I just don't know if
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that works because unfortunately, I mean you can
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see with my bald head, I've been around a a while.
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Now. I'm getting old and we've seen
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enough times where NASCAR tried to go after some sort of, like
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mythical new fan and it it always seems like it ultimately
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is at the expense of the current fan.
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Whether that's let's take the Labor Day race to Fontana, oh,
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Southern California. That's gonna be our new thing.
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And a few years later, maybe Darlington was the the right
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call there and they take it back.
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And I was like, yay, it's back. Why?
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But why'd you leave in the 1st place?
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Kind of things. There's a lot of that.
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Let's just eliminate that pattern of making mistakes and
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stick with what works in some ways.
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So I want to address something that I see and want you to
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comment on it, 'cause you're out there.
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When I go downtown Saint Louis and I go to watch my Cardinals
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or the Blues I see in the midway, you know, it's so
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different now. I mean, they assume that the
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fans and the fans, all of you that are watching, thank you for
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watching Kenny conversation. But I'm, I'm talking about you,
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the fans. So Jeff, what I see is things
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that I would never see before. They assume that the fans really
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aren't watching the games anymore.
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So I see like these Jack Daniels, while the game's going
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on, you go up out of your seat and you, you drink with your
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friends. While you you're at the arena,
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you're at the stadium, but you're drinking a hardcore mixed
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drink. You're not in your seat.
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Obviously the the Wi-Fi is unbelievable.
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The Daytona International Motor Speedway, they put millions of
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dollars into the Wi-Fi. So I know you know what I'm
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saying. Do you think we're just dealing
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with this massive shift? For example, me and my wife, the
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TV is like background noise. We're both on our cell phones.
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You know, we're laying in bed, we're on our cell phones.
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And oh, by the way, here's the TV.
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What is your thought specifically on this new world
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of nobody goes to their seats and really watches the race, but
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they're there? Yeah, I mean, it's it's two
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totally different types of crowds, right?
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Because, you know, like, if I go to, like, OK, so I live in
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Denver, right? The Rockies are no good.
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So there's really no reason for me to go and be like, super into
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the game. Like I used to go and be like,
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yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to keep score.
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I mean, I admit, you know, like all the stuff, right?
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Like I'm into it. I want to see what happens.
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And even if they're of a bad season, I want to see what
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happens. Now it's like I'm going to go,
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I'll watch a few innings, I'll walk around, I'll go stand at
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what you're talking about. Like the the bar, the stand up
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bar, come back. Oh yeah, Like somebody, somebody
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had a single. And OK, I'm not as into it
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anymore for the games. I don't care about as much.
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I'm more of a casual in that aspect.
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But then there are times I go to sporting events where I'm like
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super into it and I'm like looking at the people around me,
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like, how are you not into this? Don't you see what's going on?
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This is a huge game. Like, don't you want to pay
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attention to every play? And so I feel like NASCAR, like
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other sports or racing in general, are caught in between
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those things as well. Like North Wilkesboro, the All
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Star race, for instance. You're not going to need any
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sort of things you can do during that race because all the people
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that would go to North Wilkesboro are the hardcore,
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true, legitimate NASCAR fans. They don't need.
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They're not going to get up during the race and go walk
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around and just be like just there for Instagram moments with
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their friends and be like, oh, I'm at the game and then they're
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drinking and they're like, what happened?
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Yeah, but like, I could see where, you know, I think, like,
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Kansas has done stuff like this, right, where they've got the
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pickleball courts now out there and they've got stuff in this
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and it's like, yeah, the race is going on.
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But also like, we kind of want to appeal to the college crowd
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and get them drawn in. Obviously you know Indy 500,
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they've got the snake pit that's gets, you know, seems bigger and
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bigger all the time where you don't even you don't even see
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the race at all. You don't even hear the race
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because the music's so loud. But they view it almost as a way
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to like all right we're getting them at at this certain age and
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we're getting them used to coming to the track and maybe
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when they get a little bit older they still want to keep up that
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tradition of coming. But now this time they go, they
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go in the seats and they're still buying tickets either way.
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So we don't really care. They're giving us their money.
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We're just going to we just want you to be happy with what you're
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doing, what what the experience is.
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So I think there's probably room for both.
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The the the tricky part is how do you accommodate that without
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hurting too much of of one of the other, especially the core
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fan, the core experience, Because if it's just like a
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party where nobody's really paying attention.
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Part of the reason I like to go to live sporting events is to
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feel the crowd. You want to feel when
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everybody's into it, that intensity, people hanging on the
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pitch, like, all right, two strikes, 2 outs.
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Like, you know, runners on, like, you know, like you want
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the crowds getting hyped. You're like, all right, let's
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go. If if that's happening, you're
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the only one into it and it's sort of like this dead
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environment. Why did I come here and not just
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watch it on TV? What was the point?
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You know what I mean? So I think there's it's all
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about trying to find the right mix.
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I don't fault any sports leagues.
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We're trying to bring people in like that.
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But you also don't want to just make it so casual that it's not
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it takes, you know, it's it's just not about the true fan
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anymore. I I want to get to you in just a
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minute. I want to talk about where
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you're from and who is Jeff Clark.
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But one more thing and then we'll turn the page here.
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I noticed that Formula One does something that I've never
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thought about before, and I've witnessed this even at Circuit
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of the Americas. They never announced the crowd
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on the day of the race. So they said in Vegas, 315,000
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people over the three day period.
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So my point to you is this, you know, let's say we're at Phoenix
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for the championship race for NASCAR and let's say there's
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70,000 people there on that day. Should they announce we had
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150,000 people at the NASCAR weekend?
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What is your take on this verbiage?
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What are you should we announce? How many is in the seats that
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day or for the whole NASCAR experience?
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I think if you're using attendance numbers to make it as
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like a marketing tool like NASCAR used to, right?
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Right. They used to have these
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gobsmacking the huge attendance numbers and then when attendance
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started going down, they said well, we're actually not going
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to release those anymore. And then they said by the way, a
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lot of the times we, we actually were over inflating in any way
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or just we was just a guess. It wasn't actually the actual
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ticket sales that we had. We were just saying this holds
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about this, it's about this. So yes, it's, you know, this is
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the number, but people would use those.
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You know, back when that was especially when newspapers were
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were a thing, right, People, the newspaper would use those and
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they'd say, oh, attendance is up this year in NASCAR because they
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had, they said it was this last year.
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Now it's this that might not even been true, but it was a
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marketing thing, right? So like, I think F1, when you
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say weekend attendance, you know, 400,000 people, you're
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like, wow, Oh my goodness, that's unbelievable.
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So for their purposes, I I think, you know, why not.
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And and if NASCAR ever wants to get back into it, who cares if
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they copy F1 that way, right? If they if they want to say
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weekend attendance is this for Daytona and they want to include
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Xfinity and trucks and and hey they can include they can
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include qualifying and and the duels whatever.
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I mean if because I think that's that's the only reason that
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these leagues sort of say what the attendance is right.
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I mean yes in in baseball they do it because it's part of their
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tradition and they have the actual numbers right.
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Like they're very serious about that in the box score and they
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have the capacity and you know every down to the one seat who
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was there, right. And you can guess the attendance
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on the scoreboard and all that stuff.
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But for everybody else, I think if they're using it as
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promotional stuff then I don't have a problem with it.
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I mean and look, one thing that F1's obviously doing really well
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is promoting themselves. I mean they have a lot of buy in
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from every single facet of their including the drivers.
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I mean the drivers every single place they go they come in at
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least a full day early in Vegas it was 2 full days of media and
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appearances and stuff before they ever got on track.
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They that's race was Saturday night.
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They were all running all over the city doing stuff on that
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Tuesday. They did Tuesday, Wednesday,
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full days and then they got on track Thursday night and you
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know, they, they are treated like rock stars.
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They are treated like, you know, these celebrities and all stuff.
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But part of it is they are doing the work.
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I mean it has got to be exhausting because I, you know,
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right after that they fly straight to Abu Dhabi for the
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next race and all that stuff. But they they're putting in the
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work with the fans and the sponsors and all that stuff.
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Where I wish something that NASCAR would get back to is
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being at the track for a little bit longer.
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I don't think it has to be. They don't have to come in on
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Tuesday, but right now a lot of times.
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It'll be like, OK, the Cup garage is going to open at like,
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say like 11:00 AM Saturday or something like that, right?
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Then we'll do sort of a afternoon practice.
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And, you know, maybe, maybe the cars have been inspected Friday
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night. The drivers aren't there yet.
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So the drivers fly in Saturday morning.
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You know, they go straight to the track, kind of get in
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uniform, they do their practice and qualifying, they're done.
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Xfinity goes off, and then they come in Sunday and then they're
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out. So they're there for like a day
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and 1/2 or something, right? And that's not a lot of time to
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like do the fan interaction stuff and sort of the in market
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appearances and the member used to go on Jay Ski and there'd be
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this all this huge list of where all you guys were going to be
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and all this stuff so yeah. Do do you feel like for a
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multitude of reasons that we we dumbed our sports down in?
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In other words, NASCAR? I feel like it's dumbed down
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South. In my day it's like the season
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never end. All of us were up in Winston
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Salem at what was, and you're a young man.
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I don't know if you remember this.
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You shouldn't. The Winston preview was in.
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You know, I believe we're maybe not Duke played, but you know
21:30
January every single NASCAR driver, this thing was huge.
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They don't do the Winston preview anymore.
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It seemed like the drivers, the sport of NASCAR.
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I mean, even Speed weeks at at Daytona.
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I mean, it's the whole Daytona experience now is like 4 days
21:46
long. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, 5
21:49
days long. The whole Daytona experience
21:51
five days long used to be 14 days.
21:55
So you're saying maybe we should start maybe getting back to
21:59
that? Well, it's a couple things,
22:01
right? I mean, number one, you lost a
22:03
lot of the sponsors that were demanding that the drivers do
22:07
kind of some of the stuff, right?
22:08
Like if it was a sponsor that say, hey, I want you to do this
22:11
appearance in the market, I want you to go to the store and sign
22:13
autographs for an hour or whatever.
22:15
Maybe there's not as much of that now, I don't know.
22:18
But the second part is, yeah, everybody's saying, you know,
22:21
you have the driver saying, look, we are on the road too
22:23
much. We have to do testing all the
22:26
time. Well, now that's gone.
22:28
We have to some you know they do a rotation where they would fly
22:31
the drivers into the city you know like a couple weeks out to
22:35
sort of preview make you know hey, hey we're going to we're
22:37
going to Texas and we're going to go around all the TV stations
22:41
in the newspaper. We're going to do a fan event
22:43
and don't forget guys race is coming up in three weeks.
22:46
Buy your tickets make sure you know they they don't send.
22:50
I don't think they do that anymore as as far as I know,
22:52
they. Don't want to spend the money.
22:54
Yeah, the the drivers have told me.
22:57
They'll say, hey, fly us, fly us out there in your NASCAR private
23:01
jet and they're like, no, we want you to take commercial and
23:03
the driver's like, we ain't doing it then.
23:05
Yeah, first, I mean, I can totally see that it's.
23:07
A true story, yeah. I I mean and so with the money
23:12
you know like I was just saying with F1 the money is flowing in.
23:15
So everybody's like getting what they can do this you know
23:18
NASCAR, the money sort of flowed out in a way.
23:20
Now it's it's stable but you've lost a lot of that need to to be
23:24
there and obviously on the same time you have the teams going
23:26
well, save us from ourselves. We don't want to be testing all
23:29
the time. And now they, you know, they
23:31
they do have simulators instead. So maybe that's sort of taking
23:34
the place. But but one thing about testing
23:36
was I, I remember before I moved to Charlotte, like I I would
23:39
live, you know, I lived in Southern California for a while.
23:41
So drivers would come out and they would test Vegas or they
23:45
would test Fontana and or Phoenix.
23:47
And so I would go, I would drive out there and you'd have them
23:51
there for two days and you get a bunch of stories, you know, and
23:54
vans were there and it was like, hey, they're testing here.
23:57
They're coming back in a couple months.
23:59
So it was all sort of like promotional and it was just the
24:02
wheel kept spinning and it it is definitely good that there's
24:05
more life balance now and the drivers don't have to be on the
24:07
road as much. But it's it's almost gone so
24:10
extreme, especially with the three day schedules being gone
24:14
where where can some of that come back and it doesn't have to
24:17
be all the way back. Nobody's saying like, hey, let's
24:20
go crazy again, but like maybe just a little bit, some more
24:24
steps back would help some things.
24:26
Especially when you look at you know the, the OR I used to have
24:29
of F1 was Oh my God, these guys are so untouchable.
24:31
They, you know, you can never get close to them as fans.
24:34
Every single drive, everyone F1 driver, every weekend is
24:37
required to do their fan for them.
24:39
They go up on the stage, they answer the questions, they throw
24:42
out stuff to the crowd. So if you're a fan, you know
24:46
you're you're going to be able to see your drivers and they're
24:48
doing, they're going over, doing all these appearances all over
24:50
town in Vegas, like every single driver, OK, this guy's going to
24:53
be at the Aria, this guy's going to be in the lobby here.
24:56
Spread them out. And so you can actually see,
24:58
like, as as those guys are supposed to be.
25:00
Wow. These days in NASCAR, I'm not
25:04
sure I can go into a market and say, all right, where where can
25:07
I see Kyle Busch? Oh, he's not doing anything this
25:09
weekend. Oh, darn.
25:11
Like that's my favorite driver. Usually I'd like to.
25:14
Yeah. So I just think there's a little
25:16
bit more that can be done there. I'm not saying extreme don't
25:20
drivers don't kill me, but some something could be done.
25:24
Well, we're going to end this right there because we know that
25:27
Steve Phelps and we do know that everybody at NASCAR has said
25:32
I've got us. I'm a little bit embarrassed for
25:34
him. They said they're going to make
25:35
it about the fans next year. I'm like has it not But so I
25:41
believe we're going to see a big push Jeff next year and getting
25:45
back to the fan experience and maybe it's just like what you
25:49
just said maybe now the drivers are going to have to go back to
25:53
work. Listen, I'm I'm thankful for my
25:56
life. I can't believe they paid me to
25:58
race a car and do appearances. So you know when you when you
26:03
really look back at it. I mean, are we really working
26:06
for a living here? We're driving cars in circles
26:09
and it's going to take a lot of work.
26:10
And when you hit 50 or or now it's 42 years old, your career
26:14
is over. So suffer a little bit until
26:17
you're 42 and then you can go do what you want to do.
26:21
OK Jeff Gluck, born and raised in Delaware, is is this close.
26:29
Tell me about you. Yeah, I'm actually a California
26:33
guy. Oh, I was born in the Bay Area.
26:35
Yeah, I I did go to. I went to college and University
26:38
of Delaware, although that was, that was part of what happened
26:41
in California because I grew up in the Bay Area and my mom and I
26:45
were at the World Series in 1989.
26:49
My dad was out of town on a business trip and he had got
26:51
tickets through work and he was like, hey, you go, you know, and
26:55
and I was a big A's fan at the time and it was the Giants and
26:57
the A's is the Bay Bridge series and all that stuff.
27:00
And we're sitting there waiting for the game to start and all of
27:02
a sudden the stadium's like going like this.
27:05
Yeah, yeah. I was nine.
27:07
I was nine years old. World News.
27:09
Yes. And so I I never saw the game
27:14
and we we made it back home. It took us hours and hours to
27:17
get home. You know, the bridges were down,
27:19
all the stuff. And my mom said once my dad got
27:23
home from this business trip, we're not living in California
27:27
anymore. We're let's let's move.
27:30
Why don't you find somewhere else to raise the family?
27:31
Because this doesn't seem like a safe, safe places, these
27:34
earthquakes. I don't want to do this
27:35
earthquake stuff again. Yeah.
27:38
So we end up moving a couple years later to to Denver, where
27:43
I live now, 'cause my parents used to live here all this time.
27:46
And, you know, I think because of that, I, because I had left
27:50
the place that I sort of grew up.
27:52
It wasn't. I never felt like, well, I need
27:55
to go back there or stay there. I I don't need to go to college
27:57
there. I need to be around all my
27:58
friends. I I had already uprooted.
28:01
So I was interested in sports. So I'm like, well, I'm I'm just
28:05
why don't I go to the East Coast?
28:07
That's where all the sports are. They've got, you know in Denver.
28:10
No, you know the closest other big city is you know like Kansas
28:14
City or something. It's like 8 hours away.
28:16
So I'm like let's go to let's go to the East Coast.
28:18
You've got New York City. You've got DC, Baltimore,
28:21
Philly, Boston. They're all there like sports,
28:25
man. So Delaware Universities of
28:28
Delaware sort of like right in the in the middle of all that,
28:31
you know, you could take a train anywhere.
28:32
I was like this is I could go to all these games.
28:35
I mean this is I'm going to cross up all these stadiums and
28:38
see all the all the stuff. And I thought I wanted to be a
28:41
sports announcer at the time, which I'm really glad I didn't
28:45
try to do that because I don't have the voice for that.
28:47
That would have been a total bust.
28:49
But when I was looking through the course catalog at at
28:52
Delaware, I'm flipping through, you know, I don't even know they
28:55
have course catalogs like this paper version anymore, you know,
28:58
but you're looking what are the classes I could take?
29:00
And there was this class called Sports writing.
29:02
And it said in the course description that you will go to
29:05
games as part of the assignment, like Phillies.
29:10
And I was like, there's a class where you get to go to like
29:14
Phillies games and Sixers games and stuff.
29:16
Yeah, I was like, that's what that's crazy.
29:19
So I emailed the professor and I was like, can I get into your
29:23
class? And he's like, no, not if you're
29:25
if you haven't written before. It's just for like people are
29:28
trying to be sportswriters. I was like, well, I'll do
29:31
whatever, like he's like, all right, we'll start start writing
29:34
for the school paper at the same time and I'll let you in the
29:37
class as long as you start writing.
29:38
I'm like, OK, I'm a sportswriter now.
29:41
And I just thought, I remember we went out to, we went out to,
29:45
it was a Phillies, Cardinals game when Mark McGuire was on
29:49
the team and we get on the field for batting practice and we're
29:53
standing there and and McGuire is in the cage and he's just
29:56
like, you know, crushing the stuff out at the old veteran
30:00
stadium. And I'm like, I cannot believe
30:02
this is a job that is ridiculous.
30:05
All right, So, like, I'm going to do that.
30:07
So I just started. I just started being a sport.
30:10
I said I'm a sports writer now and I just started going on that
30:12
path and that was how it happened.
30:15
That's awesome. What a great story.
30:19
Let's Fast forward just a little bit.
30:22
So first of all, I think you're really good at your job.
30:25
You you know, my brother Rusty would say to me, herm, you you
30:31
take your knife and you get right to their flesh.
30:33
But you never really puncture. And and I kind of feel like
30:36
you're that type of person to your provocative you rough the
30:40
sport up when it needs to be roughed up.
30:43
And where I'm going to is we all get roughed up in life.
30:46
I, you know, I've been fired, you know, from Furniture Row.
30:49
Felix Zabato's fired me. And there was a time in your
30:54
career that you found yourself not out of a job.
31:00
But I believe you the the fans were maybe sending you some
31:05
money to to stay alive. And I I thought that was not
31:09
stay alive. You know what I mean?
31:10
Stay in the game. I thought that was awesome.
31:13
I thought that you were kind of a survivor.
31:15
And I believe I got on Twitter and cheer John, tell me about
31:20
that, that period. Yeah.
31:22
Well first of all I think you you nailed it there about like
31:25
the provocative stuff or or whatever.
31:28
Like earlier in my career I think I was way stronger on
31:36
opinions and stuff like that to the point where one time in
31:39
NASCAR APR woman came up to me and she said why don't you just
31:43
own it. I said own what She's like you
31:46
you I know you you're an asshole and you want to be an asshole
31:50
and why don't you just you know you're you're so negative why
31:52
don't you just own it And and you know I think she wanted me
31:55
to be like a Skip Bayless or something and I'm like well I I
31:59
don't I don't view myself that way.
32:02
I just feel like I, I, I care about the sport and I have
32:05
strong opinions. She's like, well, it doesn't
32:07
come off that way, You know, you all you do is be negative kind
32:10
of stuff. And you know, I I realized at
32:14
the time I I don't really have it in me to to be sort of like a
32:18
hot take artist or you could probably actually be, you know,
32:22
you look at a Skip Bayless, right?
32:23
Like he's made an entire career off yelling about stuff and
32:27
taking. He probably doesn't even believe
32:28
half the stuff he says, but he's making millions on TV because
32:32
he's. Being provocative.
32:33
Yeah. And and you know, he can
32:35
obviously look himself in the mirror at the end of the day and
32:37
feel OK about it. Probably why he's counting all
32:39
his money. But I felt like I I don't really
32:43
want to be that way. If I have an opinion, I think
32:47
it's OK to share it. But I also realized that maybe
32:51
you know, number one, you don't have to go all in because a lot
32:55
of times if you say something the fans already you can pick it
32:58
up from there. You don't need to like slam
33:00
people over the head with it. They they know, right.
33:03
And you know second of all you, you can't just be angry about
33:07
every single thing. You got a people you you, you
33:11
will it'll be boy who cried wolf kind of thing like you your
33:13
voice will be drowned out if you say if you're outraged about
33:17
this and now this and even sometimes people say well what
33:19
do you think about this Are you mad about this?
33:21
But no, that one. I'm not going to, I'm not going
33:25
to spend my energy on that one. So I think that's just a little
33:26
bit of experience. But the other time you're
33:29
talking about, I was at USA TODAY and my wife was trying to
33:33
get a job at a Children's Hospital.
33:35
She's what they call a child life specialist who is somebody
33:37
who, you know, the nurse will come into the room, you know,
33:41
help the kid out or whatever. Then they, they got to leave,
33:43
They got to go to the next room. Well, a lot of times the kid,
33:46
they might not even have their parents there.
33:47
They might be alone, they might be scared about what's happening
33:50
to them. So a lot of these children's
33:51
hospitals have child life specialists who come in kind of
33:55
comfort them, might might distract them, talk to them
33:57
about what's going on, kind of, you know, just almost like a
34:00
counselor in a way kind of thing.
34:02
So my wife wanted to do that, and she wasn't going to be able
34:05
to get a job in Charlotte. So I told USA TODAY, hey, like,
34:09
I'm going to have to relocate somewhere and I'll just fly the
34:12
races from there. And the sports editor at the
34:14
time said, no, you can't do that.
34:16
I was like, really? Why?
34:18
I mean, I don't, I don't do any. I'm talking I'm going to the
34:20
race shops in Charlotte every day.
34:23
I just do my work from the track.
34:24
And he and he wasn't a NASCAR guy.
34:26
I don't really think he understood how it all went.
34:28
And he said, he told me not having our NASCAR writer in
34:32
Charlotte would be like not having our Notre Dame beat
34:35
writer in South Bend. So you can't do it.
34:37
And I'm like, I I don't agree, but all right.
34:42
So I'm going to have to quit because I'm not going to tell my
34:44
wife, well, you can't go help the children at the Children's
34:46
Hospital so I can stay in Charlotte.
34:49
So then it was sort of like, OK, here, here's my situation,
34:53
right? Like, I've quit this job.
34:55
I'm going to try to start my own website.
34:57
It's either going to work and I'm going to be able to stay
35:01
afloat or that's the end. And it it, it wasn't like I was
35:07
like. You love your wife.
35:09
I mean that that was the decision, right?
35:11
Like and so I there's other jobs out there.
35:14
So I, I put it to the fans like, OK, like here's a way you can
35:16
support me if if you've enjoyed my work and you want to keep
35:19
going. I mean, this is not the ideal
35:22
situation. But here's a way you can put in
35:25
$2.00 a month, $5 a month, whatever.
35:27
And I'll, I'll try to stick around and go to the races.
35:30
If not, hey, I I understand, you know, people don't want to pay
35:34
for that and and I'll, I'm gone, OK?
35:37
Like, it's just I'll go work at Starbucks or drive Uber or
35:40
whatever. And I was OK with that.
35:43
Like I was kind of at peace with however it was going to come out
35:46
and it just turned out to be really, really good the opposite
35:49
way. Like everybody pitched in and I
35:51
had enough people that were like I think I ended up having, you
35:54
know, say I think it was maybe close, like 1000 people and you
35:58
know, it was donated between like say $2.00 a month, most
36:01
were $2.00 a month, $10 a month, something like that.
36:04
So I had some people go even higher than that.
36:06
I mean it wasn't, you know, everybody, but you know, people
36:10
put in what they wanted to and and it was enough to keep me
36:12
going. And it was like, this is amazing
36:15
because the only people I had to answer to were the readers,
36:18
right? I didn't have to try to get
36:19
clicks on my website. I didn't have.
36:21
It was just like, all right, what do you guys want to read
36:23
about? I don't have to, I don't have to
36:26
chase stuff or try to do cheap trick type stuff.
36:29
I'm just like here you go. So that was a really, that was a
36:32
really great time in my career. Well, I thought it was badass.
36:36
You fall underneath something that kind of saved my life.
36:41
And it it, it goes like this, your life will not change until
36:47
you change your life. And I admire you for being a
36:52
badass. So well done.
36:56
I want to make a change. And you know, we're just raw
36:59
here. So look, look at this.
37:03
OK, so this is, you know, it's 274,000 followers, Twitter,
37:09
274,000 that that's a lot. That is a lot that, you know, so
37:16
like that's over 1/4 of a million people.
37:19
Sometimes we all get lost in these numbers.
37:21
You know, I'm like, well, you know, Busch Stadium, the World
37:26
Series, the Cardinals, it's sold out at like 40,000.
37:30
So where I'm going with this is you have a huge following and
37:37
something that has made you very popular.
37:40
And I'm betting it wasn't planned.
37:44
They say some of the best plan things are things we don't plan
37:48
and it's and I want to go through these three, You became
37:52
extremely popular and people are copying you.
37:56
All the race car drivers, all the race tracks.
37:59
You became popular for quiet track, which meant the races
38:04
were over. Everybody's gone.
38:06
And look here, I'm the only one left and you took a picture
38:11
about these race tracks and nobody's there except you.
38:15
The next one was one of my favorites. 12 questions with
38:21
drivers. Now we're going to go through
38:23
these. I just getting a matter the 12
38:25
questions with drivers is brilliant.
38:28
Gives everybody a a quick preview into their life and then
38:32
you always have that driver give you a question for the next
38:36
driver you're going to interview.
38:38
And and then the one that I think is very provocative in a
38:42
good way. In a good way was it a good race
38:47
And I think was it a good race is incredibly serious and I and
38:52
I would bet that if NASCAR doesn't look at that every damn
38:55
time you do it. I think they're lying because I
38:57
look, I look in in at times you're getting 30,000 people to
39:03
vote. What is your highest number
39:06
people that voted on? Was it a good race?
39:09
I think it's in the mid 30s. I think maybe it might have been
39:14
this year Daytona 500, I think anytime Dale Junior retweets
39:17
there. Was it a good race pole that
39:20
gets like another 10,000 or something?
39:23
Yeah, it's it's very interesting that one in particular because
39:28
I've gotten that one all all three of those were pretty much
39:33
by accident. Well, let's.
39:34
Just let's just say, yeah, let's go back.
39:35
I don't want OK, quiet track. Do you remember?
39:41
Like, was it a mistake? When was the first time you just
39:44
did that? I don't even remember.
39:46
That's a good question. My first one would have been, I
39:48
mean, because here's the thing, like what happens from a media
39:52
standpoint is after the race you run out on Pit Rd. and the
39:57
winners do in their burnouts. The fans are going nuts.
40:00
You know the pit, you know the cars come down Pit Rd. and well,
40:04
back then it was driving to the garage or whatever.
40:06
And you know they're getting out and the cruiser tearing
40:08
everything down and you get your post race interviews and you run
40:12
back into the Media Center, right?
40:14
You start writing and and you and then the post race press
40:16
conference happens and you're writing that and you're you're
40:19
inside for about 3 hours, right? And all of a sudden you're done
40:25
with your work and you don't even realize what's happened
40:27
outside the walls. You know some of these places
40:29
have no windows, whatever, right?
40:31
And you come out and you start walking to your car and you're
40:33
like, wow, it is completely peaceful and quiet, like a park,
40:39
a City Park or something, like at night.
40:41
And there's like nobody here. It's just like, you know, you
40:44
can hear the wind. It's so quiet.
40:46
And it just struck me like, man here a few hours ago.
40:50
All these stands are filled with people going nuts.
40:52
The track was loud with cars, like screaming by, you know, you
40:56
had the pit stops, you know, making all the noise with the
40:58
tire changes and all that stuff. And now it's just completely
41:01
quiet at the same spot, just like everybody's gone.
41:05
And it just struck me like, man, this is, it was like, so
41:07
peaceful. So I started like, I would just
41:10
go out and like kind of sit for a few minutes and be like, wow,
41:13
that's crazy. So I just started taking a
41:15
picture, sort of capture that moment like quiet track instead
41:18
of the loud track that we've just seen.
41:20
And then, you know, it's just like a habit, right?
41:22
You did it one week, Let's do it the next week.
41:24
Do it the next week. And I think I've probably been
41:27
doing it for 14 years now or something.
41:30
I mean, probably whenever the cell phone technology that we
41:34
used to have the first early camera phones or whatever, yeah,
41:37
that was probably when I started doing it, so.
41:40
Well, it is brilliant because I always say dirt fans don't like
41:46
NASCAR and and and even they're copying you now, even the
41:49
promoters at the dirt track. So I think that's wonderful that
41:53
that's something that is trademarked by you.
41:56
It's not trademarked, I guess not, but still what they say.
42:01
The biggest form of flattery is people wanting to be you.
42:05
So OK, the 2nd 112 questions with drivers that has become
42:11
very popular must read because it's quick and you get a lot of
42:15
information. Tell me about that one.
42:17
How did that start? So I wanted to do what I was
42:20
working for SB Nation in 2010. I were working for scene, NASCAR
42:24
scene, NASCAR scene shut down. So I went to this blog site, SB
42:28
Nation, and they said we don't know anything about NASCAR.
42:32
Do whatever you want, but try to get people reading.
42:35
I just thought, you know, at the time it was the top 12 in points
42:39
made the playoffs. Oh.
42:41
OK. So I said why don't I do
42:43
something where I talk, I do 12 questions with all the drivers
42:48
outside the top 12 because we don't get to hear from them as
42:52
much. You know, let's say it was like
42:53
a Reed Sorenson at the time or something, right?
42:55
Like, let's let me let me figure out a way to hot spotlight these
42:59
drivers. We're already hearing from Jeff
43:01
Gordon every week. We're already hearing from Dale
43:03
Junior every week. Let's do the drivers outside the
43:06
top 12. So I did this thing, it was, I
43:08
think it was called 12 out of 12 originally.
43:11
And then I realized number one, that changes all the time during
43:16
the season, right? Like somebody might start bad
43:19
and go in the top 12 or somebody might start in the top 12 fall
43:21
out and #2, I was running out of drivers pretty quickly because
43:26
do a full season. So then by the next year I was
43:28
like, all right, now it's just 12 questions.
43:31
I just kept the the 12 number. But my my goal is like, you hear
43:36
the drivers get asked the same questions all the time, right?
43:40
Like what? Do you have any superstitions
43:43
before the race? What do you eat before the race?
43:45
Do you ever pee in the race car? You know, right.
43:48
That one's really famous. Like you, if you go to any
43:53
driver appearance, you sort of hear the same stuff pop up and
43:56
you hear it in the media too. And you whenever a driver gets
44:00
asked a question that you know they've answered 100 times
44:04
instead, you can almost see them check out a little bit because
44:07
then they go into this mode of like, all right, here's my
44:09
recited answer. So I just thought, well what if
44:15
I could come up with 12 questions each year and change
44:17
them each year that are like stuff that they either don't get
44:21
asked very often or have never been asked before at all.
44:24
So that's sort of been the goal with that like how can I get,
44:28
how can I get these guys to show personality, let's find out more
44:31
about them, but not in the same way that we always hear the same
44:36
stuff. So I I personally have fun with
44:39
it honestly, because it's honestly a chance for me to get
44:41
to know them better because you go through a whole season
44:43
sometimes you just, you just see people you're like, hey, how's
44:45
it going? You might talk to them about
44:47
how's your car but I'm like well Todd Gilliland tell me what
44:51
makes you tick. I don't know you know what what
44:54
do you why are you doing this stuff like that.
44:56
So that's that's that's the most fun thing I do just cause it's
45:00
like almost an excuse to talk to people about life.
45:03
I mean you you're amazing at these.
45:05
Like, I I I look forward to yours every year, maybe more
45:07
than anybody, so. Well, you're a therapeutic for
45:11
me. I find that when people ask me
45:14
questions about things, sometimes you know, it it, it's
45:18
fun, it it it takes me through there and kind of answer myself.
45:23
So the third one, which is the last one for right now until you
45:29
make up more, was it a good race?
45:32
To me, this one gets everybody's goat.
45:37
Meaning this is the one that makes everybody check
45:40
themselves. Because for me, it's like, I
45:43
could say, man, that was not a good race.
45:45
And then all of a sudden you look on your poll and there's
45:47
30,000 people that voted and you're like, well, I'm way off
45:51
base. I'm not, you know, because all
45:54
these people think it was a good race.
45:56
Maybe, maybe I'm maybe I'm a little rough around the edges,
45:59
maybe it was a good race, but my driver just didn't do good.
46:02
So was it a good race? Where were you at?
46:08
How did that moment start? So it was 2016, It was the
46:13
second race of the year. It was Atlanta at the time, and
46:16
NASCAR was trying another one of their new packages.
46:20
I think it was one of the lower downforce packages or something.
46:23
And they had said we're trying this package so we can improve
46:28
the racing at intermediates. So I just thought, OK, well,
46:31
after the race, why don't I just ask people, was it good?
46:35
Did you like it? Did it work essentially right?
46:37
Did. Did what NASCAR was trying to do
46:39
work. And then, you know, I maybe the
46:42
next week was Vegas or something.
46:43
And I just thought, OK, well, why don't I ask it again and
46:46
then I can compare it. So I just asked it again and
46:49
like, seriously, that was all it was at the time.
46:52
I had never any intention of I'm going to start this thing and
46:56
now I'm going to be doing it for, you know, seven years,
46:59
every single race, every week. It was just, hey, you know, this
47:05
is a, this is a sport where we talked about a little bit
47:07
earlier, but like NASCAR is always about the fans or they
47:11
always say we're trying to make the fans happy.
47:14
That is rules, package changes, format changes, playoff changes,
47:19
all sorts of things, right? And it's all about the
47:21
entertainment, it's all about the fan.
47:23
So that is my question. Did it work?
47:26
Did did you like this? I've gotten a lot of blowback
47:30
over the years from people saying why.
47:33
You know, people in within the industry don't ask people this.
47:37
You're you're making them think of whether it was good or bad.
47:40
Not everything used to be good or bad.
47:41
Maybe they just enjoyed it and and that's it.
47:45
But I'll tell you what changed it when I started covering Chili
47:50
Bowl and Knoxville Nationals and started getting to those more
47:54
because as you know with dirt racers, a lot of the the
47:58
conversation is about, well, the track wasn't really that good
48:01
tonight and sorry it was, it got rubbed in too much or it turned
48:04
to be one groove and you know or too much water.
48:10
Right, Right. Half farmer.
48:12
So and so, but that is a that is a a fair.
48:15
I mean to me I view dirt racing as like the most pure racing on
48:19
the planet, right? Like that is that is the essence
48:21
of racing. And so I thought well if those
48:23
guys are talking every week about was it was was the track
48:28
good was it good racing and and because their their entire point
48:32
even though they are true racers is to make the they're trying to
48:35
make the fans happy and entertained so that the fans
48:37
will come back and like their product they're not looking at
48:40
it and going well. Yeah it's it's a one groove
48:43
track and it's all rubbered in but too bad we're we're going to
48:47
do this because this is how we like to race.
48:48
No. They're like, no, we we need
48:50
it's about the show what will make a good show for people.
48:54
So that sort of alleviated my. Guilty stuff.
48:59
Exactly. I thought if Brad Sweet is
49:02
coming up after saying, yeah, you know what, we just kind of
49:05
missed it tonight, track prep wise.
49:07
And hopefully next time we come back here we'll make make a
49:09
little bit less dusty or or whatever it is.
49:11
Yeah, I thought, well that's totally fair then why can't you
49:15
ask that? So I'm going to keep going.
49:19
Oh. Yeah, you have to.
49:20
But I I have heard from from NASCAR, they they told me like
49:24
hey we do, we do look at the poll and you know, it's it's
49:27
it's something that we use along with other things.
49:30
And I do want to remind people though it's not a scientific
49:33
poll, it's still a Twitter poll, right.
49:36
Like you're supposed to only be able to get one vote.
49:38
And I think it it does a good job with that.
49:40
But it's not it's not like, you know, it's it's an online poll.
49:45
So take what you want out of it. It doesn't.
49:48
It could be right. It could not be right.
49:51
I I don't know. Well it's all good and it gives
49:56
us all something to look at and you should be commended for
50:01
definitely. If everything you've done those
50:04
three things quiet track 12 questions.
50:08
Was it a good race. It's like somebody you know an
50:11
artist whether they sing whatever they do you you've got
50:15
three hits and and I think that's awesome.
50:18
All right buddy. So man, oh man, 50 minutes.
50:22
The the fans always tease me, Jeff.
50:24
They go, you quit, you keep talking about time.
50:27
But I but I'd like to tell my guests, we're already 50 minutes
50:31
into this. So we're we're coming to an end
50:34
here because the Herminator really likes to keep it under an
50:37
hour. Me and you start drinking more.
50:39
We're getting caught in mouth. And so I asked everybody in
50:44
NASCAR this. It started to be only drivers,
50:48
but now it's people that are in the sport.
50:50
Three things. So your opinion on NASCAR today?
50:55
What is it? I think NASCAR today is in the
51:01
best place it's been in the last decade.
51:07
But when I got in NASCAR, it was, and that's going to be
51:10
tough to ever match that. That was like in the early
51:12
2000s. So yeah, but it went down for a
51:16
while, right? Like, and it was not in a good
51:18
place for a while. And I felt like a lot of the
51:19
moves they were making were bad moves.
51:22
And I was very upset about a lot of it, 'cause I just felt like,
51:27
man, I've seen the sport be great and I know it can be great
51:31
again. And I don't know why they would
51:32
try to do some of this stuff. I just don't get it.
51:35
But I feel like the current leadership has done a way better
51:39
job of trying to be smart about things, particularly with the
51:43
schedule, you know, making sure that there's enough new elements
51:50
to have something to talk about. But they're also, I think
51:54
realizing like, hey, we've we've got to keep some core things on
51:57
our schedule and sometimes it's a correcting mistake that goes
52:01
back to that, like I think the Indy Rd. course, for example,
52:04
right? Like I didn't like that and then
52:07
like Bristol dirt. Now they're going back.
52:09
They've reversed both those, right.
52:10
So it's like OK, they tried something they didn't it didn't
52:14
work. But you know at least they they
52:17
they changed it up. They keep it different.
52:19
They give us some Chicago street race I thought was a smash hit.
52:23
I'm excited about Iowa. You know hopefully they can go
52:27
international Montreal or something at some point.
52:30
So I think I think their hearts are in the right places.
52:34
I think that they, I think I I have a lot more confidence in
52:38
the current group than say you know 5-6 years ago even.
52:44
So yeah, that's that's my that's my opinion of that I think.
52:48
Yeah, I like Jim France, Ben Kennedy, Steve Phelps.
52:53
I like Jim the most just because I think he's old school.
52:56
I I, you know, I just, it just reminds me of the old you know
53:00
Bill France days. OK, so two more here.
53:04
What is your opinion right now of the next Gen. car?
53:09
I just think, I mean, first of all, they end up backing into
53:14
this unbelievable occurrence that I'm not sure anybody could
53:18
ever thought would happen, which is to make the intermediate
53:20
tracks the best tracks in NASCAR.
53:23
Like who? Who would have ever, even when
53:26
you're saying, all right, we're going to do this next Gen. car
53:28
and here's here's the thing, we're having this next Gen. car,
53:31
it's going to be particularly good on road courses.
53:33
And because we're doing all these things and it's going to
53:35
be sort of almost like a sports car, nobody, not one sane
53:40
person, would have said the time, hey, you know what?
53:42
I bet this is going to make the mile and a half tracks the best
53:45
they've ever been in NASCAR history and pretty much ruin the
53:48
short tracks and the road courses, right?
53:51
Like, well, how did this happen? I don't know how it happened,
53:55
but it has saved these places like Kansas, Charlotte Oval,
54:01
places like that. Now it's like, you got to, Oh my
54:03
gosh, you got to watch these places.
54:04
It's going to be. Awesome.
54:04
And just when Fontana got really good, oh.
54:08
My gosh, that is so painful. Yeah.
54:12
But I don't know how you're going to fix the short tracks at
54:16
this point and the road courses but the short tracks are really
54:18
concerned to me because that that was like the thing that you
54:21
could always count on as like this is going to be this is
54:26
legit right Like so I almost wonder like if they go another
54:32
year and and the short track racing still not that great like
54:37
can you is it Would it be possible in some universe to
54:40
develop just a car that races on the short tracks a next Gen.
54:45
For short tracks and then keep your current next Gen. for the
54:48
mile and a halfs and super speedways whatever because they.
54:51
Should be able to because the front and the back of the car
54:54
literally bolt on. I mean could could is it
54:59
possible like because I don't. I don't what I'm worried about,
55:03
Kenny. What happens five years from now
55:06
if this is just how the short tracks are and the new fan and
55:08
all stuff, they go, well, this is they have.
55:10
They have never experienced how great short tracks used to be.
55:14
I I don't want people to lose that 'cause that is the heart of
55:17
NASCAR, that's the soul of NASCAR.
55:19
So that worries me. Yeah, coming to the very end
55:23
here now. So this year we saw the record
55:27
penalties, fines, you know of course Hendrick was all, all the
55:32
teams together, $400,000. And by and by the way, we've
55:37
been doing this so long that the sun is changing, it's getting on
55:41
your it's OK, I love it, I love it.
55:45
That's how this is the last one. So yeah, let's be obvious.
55:49
There it is. So what is your opinion on the
55:52
fines and penalties in the way they go about tech inspection?
55:57
So precise. I'm torn.
56:01
I'm really torn in some aspects. I like that they're keeping them
56:05
honest because I want to. I want to believe that it's as
56:10
straight up as possible. They're not letting people get
56:13
away with stuff. They're not letting because I I
56:15
want to know like, hey, the best driver in the best team won.
56:18
You know, I I get that part of it.
56:20
I also really like what they started doing this year is
56:22
showing us what these teams are doing.
56:26
Hey, we're going to call it. Come in, come on in, the NASCAR
56:28
holler. You'll never believe what time
56:30
Jet Ski's team was doing, you know, stuff like that, right?
56:33
And I and I get that, was that turned out to be an old school
56:35
trick with bleeding the tires and stuff.
56:37
But for me, not being a true racer, I didn't know that I'd
56:41
never heard of that. You know, I thought, wow, that
56:44
is so interesting that you could have a bleeder valve like like
56:47
that. Tell the fans what They tell the
56:49
fans what they do, Jeff, they they put the cheater parts on
56:53
display. Is this right?
56:55
Well, it's it's even beyond that because now they used to just,
56:58
you know, they put him on a table or something.
56:59
And I was never technical enough back in those days to go by and
57:02
say, Oh yeah, that's what they did right there.
57:05
Oh, I can see it. I don't know.
57:07
But now they have the series director they call the media and
57:09
they say, all right, here's the real one, or here's here's a
57:13
legit man, here's this one. Look at the difference and guess
57:16
what? See this opening?
57:17
Nope. See, this is going to allow more
57:19
air. And they explain why it would
57:21
help you, why they might do this kind of thing, what it was
57:24
doing, and you and you. It's an education.
57:26
You're like, wow, So first of all, you go, boy, the ingenuity
57:31
of these people in the garage, it's actually, it actually makes
57:33
me appreciate the crew chiefs even more, 'cause you go, you
57:35
always think, all right, they're doing something, but what does
57:38
doing something mean? And you see it.
57:41
You're like, wow, that is really smart.
57:43
Too bad they got caught. But that's really smart.
57:46
And then you go, well, good on NASCAR because I can't remember
57:50
what the specific part was this year.
57:51
The hood The hood louvers was a big deal at the end of the.
57:54
That was huge. Yeah, that was huge.
57:56
Let more air out. NASCAR for one of the parts this
58:00
year that was supposed to be a a 3D printed part or whatever that
58:03
you know was single source supplier.
58:05
NASCAR had hidden markings in it, a certain pattern, and they
58:10
didn't tell anybody about it. And then when they it was only
58:14
visible to them, they only knew where it was like these certain
58:16
lines. And then when they thought this
58:18
one was illegal, they looked and they said it doesn't have those
58:21
lines. We knew it.
58:23
It's not the same. So I I do kind of like that.
58:25
I just wonder if it says take some of the creativity and the
58:29
fun out of the sport because that's what racing was built on.
58:33
So, you know, are you going to lose that too much is are all
58:38
the cars going to be running the same speed?
58:40
And then it's purely purely about track position, pit stops,
58:44
you know, clean air. I don't want to hear too much
58:47
more about that. I want to, I want guys to be
58:49
able to to race. So that one's inconclusive for
58:53
me a little bit, because I I don't know where it's all going.
58:56
Well, I really appreciate it Jeff.
58:59
You've been wonderful. You know, people say, well, tell
59:03
me about this Kenny conversation.
59:05
I said, man, it's no different than being at your gas station.
59:08
And somebody says, what did you think of Bubba and and Kyle
59:13
Larson? And you start talking and and
59:15
that's what we do here. So listen up, everybody.
59:18
We are in podcast form. You can listen to Jeff Cluck on
59:23
your way to work. And since it's so long, you get
59:26
back in your vehicle and you listen to us on the way home
59:30
until next time. The Kenny conversation just
59:33
keeps on rolling. And Jeff Cluck, Thank you so
59:36
much my friend. This was.
59:39
I mean I I'm seriously. This was an absolute honor for
59:42
me. Thank you so much for asking me
59:43
to come on. I again Missouri Sports Hall of
59:47
Famer. I'm on with the Hall of Famer.
59:51
That's amazing. But you are you are so good for
59:53
the sport. You you have such good insight.
59:55
I'm so glad that you have, you know, you were you were so early
59:59
on social media, one of the the earliest people in all NASCAR on
1:00:03
it and now I feel like this is the next evolution.
1:00:06
Love that for you. This YouTube stuff that you're
1:00:08
doing, you have embraced yet another medium, yet another part
1:00:12
of this which I am slow on. I'm slow on video.
1:00:15
You are all over this, and so I you are.
1:00:17
Continuing for a living. I'm retired.
1:00:20
Well it's it's just, I mean you, you will continue to push
1:00:23
forward and and adapt and this is all about, this is all about
1:00:26
adapting. Survive, you know survive or die
1:00:29
kind of thing, right. Adapt or die.
1:00:30
So kudos to you for doing that. This is a great thing you're
1:00:33
doing and I'm, I'm glad you're adding this content out of the
1:00:36
world. It's it's great for racing.
1:00:37
So thank you. Well, Jeff, thank you so much.
1:00:40
And we are at that time of Thanksgiving and New Year's and
1:00:45
Christmas. So have the best winter ever and
1:00:49
we'll see you at the next racetrack.
1:00:50
Goodbye everybody.