Latest / Plausibly Live - The Dave Bowman Show Podcast / Fentanyl, Fifty Cents & Dr. AI

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Fentanyl, Fifty Cents & Dr. AI · Plausibly Live - The Dave Bowman Show Podcast

0:05
From the On Air Across America newsroom.
0:08
I'm Alex Ross and this is your Morning News update.
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The Labor Department says employers added 29,000 jobs in
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September, while unemployment edged up to 4.2%.
0:19
July and August were revised downward by a combined 60,000
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jobs. Wages increased 3% over the past
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year. In Western Washington, a federal
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judge has reinstated stated court appointed US Attorney
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Roger Rogoff. President Trump removed Rogoff
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less than an hour after he took office in July.
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The Justice Department says the president possesses removal
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authority and will appeal. The Navy says it recruited
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45,112 active duty enlisted sailors during fiscal 2026,
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narrowly exceeding its goal. The service is seeking another
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45,000 recruits this year. The Department of Veterans
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Affairs has released its 2026 federal benefits guide covering
1:00
compensation, pensions, education, home loans and
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survivor programs. Veterans should verify current
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eligibility and payment information through va.gov and.
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The Seattle Kraken opened their season with a six to one victory
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over Calgary. Vince Dunn recorded 3 points and
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Joey Daccord made 24 saves for the On Air Across American
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network. I'm Alex Ross.
1:30
History has a long memory. Power has a short one.
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Somewhere between what they told you, what actually happened, and
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what nobody bothered to question, there's a story worth
1:42
telling. From history and politics to
1:45
culture, common sense, and the occasional trip down the rabbit
1:49
hole, this is plausibly live The Dave Bowman Show.
1:56
Well, good morning, good evening, or good afternoon,
1:58
wherever you are, whatever you do.
1:59
A lot of things happening in the world today, most of them are
2:01
far beyond our control, you might say.
2:05
So perhaps it's time we took a pause and thought about life and
2:09
thought about the laws of gravity, execution protocols,
2:14
listener emails, drugs, 711, AI medicine.
2:22
Don't touch that dial. Just try to hear me out for a
2:24
little while. You want to join the show?
2:27
Text machine is open always 209565 Dave.
2:31
That's 209-565-3283. That is 24/7.
2:38
I don't know his answer from 24/7, but if you text me on that
2:42
number, you are far more likely to get me than you are by
2:46
e-mail, which is Dave at the Dave bowmanshow.com.
2:49
It's not that the e-mail doesn't show up that not that it doesn't
2:52
go Ding and all that. It's the I have a very weird
2:57
attention span and somehow or another people when they write
3:02
emails, they just, the nice thing about text is it it limits
3:08
you and so I can stay with it. Those are how you get a hold of
3:12
me. We got a lot to get to today on
3:13
a Friday. Hopefully we'll have some fun
3:15
with it as well. A Loqui Conizio, stand up, tell
3:18
those who oppose liberty, Don't tread on me.
3:36
Well, as you can tell, I'm a I'm.
3:38
I'm not under the weather. I'm just I.
3:40
I finally got a decent night's sleep.
3:42
I was exhausted yesterday. By the time I got around
3:47
recording the show, I'd already been up for, I don't know, four
3:50
or five hours. And by the time I got to bed
3:54
last night, it was it was a long day.
3:57
It was a good day, but it was a long day.
4:00
And thanks everybody for your encouragement.
4:02
I appreciate it. Things I don't talk about much,
4:06
but but there you go. So I did get this question from
4:11
a text the texter listeners show.
4:15
Dave, if if fentanyl kills thousands of Americans every
4:19
year, why don't we use that for the death penalty?
4:25
That is one of those questions that you look at it on the
4:28
surface, especially up here in Seattle area where fentanyl is.
4:35
You can't even walk down the streets in Seattle without
4:37
seeing people high on fentanyl and it is not unusual to go and
4:44
and find a dead person who has fentanyl overdosed.
4:48
So it sounds like a reasonable question.
4:51
It is a reasonable question. Why wouldn't we?
4:55
Seems like it's very effective and seems to work.
5:01
We constantly hear about how lethal fentanyl is.
5:05
If tiny qualities quantities of this drug can can kill people
5:09
that quickly, why wouldn't we do it this way?
5:15
The the distinction, however, is important, and this is important
5:20
to understand. There's a difference between
5:22
lethal and reliable that's important.
5:29
The purpose of an execution protocol is not just to
5:34
administer something capable of causing death.
5:37
I mean, theoretically you could just hand somebody a gun with a
5:40
bullet, right, and say, yeah, take care of it.
5:44
The protocol has to produce a predictable result under
5:48
controlled conditions. That way it's not cruel and
5:51
unusual. Fentanyl overdoses generally
5:56
kill through respiratory depression.
5:59
Breathing becomes shallower and shallower, oxygen falls and
6:04
eventually breathing stops. And how quickly that happens
6:08
varies over considerable dependence of the of the person
6:12
based on tolerance, Physiology, other drugs that may be present,
6:17
and of course other factors that could be involved.
6:21
The enormous overdosing toll of fentanyl doesn't necessarily
6:26
demonstrate fentanyl's uses usefulness.
6:29
As an execution type drug, St. Fentanyl is dangerous partly
6:35
because it's users don't know how much of it they're
6:37
receiving. That's the part that just amazes
6:40
me. Is it that, you know, I had that
6:42
discussion some years ago with Judd Spitzer about, about this
6:47
and it doesn't take much. But if you don't know what's in
6:50
it, you you're, you're getting, you don't know what it's mixed
6:53
with. You don't.
6:54
Sometimes the people are taking the stuff, they don't even know
6:57
that it's in there. They don't even know that
6:58
there's fentanyl in there. And that's precisely the
7:01
opposite of what you want to happen in a controlled medical
7:04
or execution type environment. You have certain conditions that
7:09
have to be met and you want those conditions maintained.
7:13
And if they're not maintained well, then you're back into 8th
7:16
Amendment issues again. Is this, is this in fact cruel
7:21
or unusual? For the record, I personally
7:25
believe the lethal injection is both cruel and unusual.
7:28
It's it, I'm, I'm not convinced that it's painless and I'm not
7:36
convinced that it's, I'm, I'm not convinced that it doesn't do
7:41
things that shouldn't be done. But that's, that's an argument
7:44
for another day. There is actually a surprising
7:47
antidote here and that is that the use of fentanyl and
7:50
execution protocols has been considered.
7:53
In 2018, Nebraska was getting ready to execute a fellow by the
7:58
name of Carrie Dean Moore. And the protocol wasn't just,
8:02
you know, look, we'll just give you fentanyl until you die.
8:05
It was actually part of a four drug protocol that included
8:09
diazepam, sister curium, sister curium and potassium chloride as
8:15
well. So it's not completely off base
8:20
to ask that question because somebody has already essentially
8:24
asked that question. Why couldn't we use this?
8:26
But execution methods are always going to face challenges in
8:30
courts concerning pain and suffering from 8th Amendment
8:34
status. States also have difficulty in
8:37
obtaining these execution drugs because, as it turns out,
8:40
manufacturers and distributors sometimes prohibit their
8:44
products from being used for executions.
8:46
We've seen that happen. Trying to remember the state a
8:49
few years ago that was planning an execution, had a schedule,
8:53
then couldn't get the drugs and it was like, well, now what do
8:56
we do? I don't recall how they solved
8:59
it, but but they did. So changing the drug doesn't
9:03
necessarily eliminate either problem.
9:05
I mean, I guess you could think, well, how do you get the
9:08
fentanyl? And fentanyl, by the way, is a
9:10
legitimate drug by I happen to know that it is used medically
9:16
on a regular basis, but it's very controlled and very
9:18
difficult to get. Could you get enough to reliably
9:24
cause a, a death there? And I, that's, that's a question
9:29
I can't answer. Number one, I'm not in the habit
9:33
of buying drugs. So I don't, I don't even know
9:36
how you would go about doing that.
9:38
I, it's, it's weird. I'm 63 years old.
9:41
I have no idea. I don't even know how to buy
9:43
marijuana other than to go to the, the, the shops.
9:47
I've never done it, but if we didn't have those, I, I got no
9:50
idea how to do it. Never done it.
9:52
So I don't know how you would get fentanyl.
9:54
I guess you could just walk down the street with a sign that
9:57
says, Hey, I'm looking for fentanyl, But I'm not sure the
10:02
states would be able to do that on a basis that would be, you
10:06
know, available to, to use for an execution protocol.
10:10
And that's, that's the bigger, the bigger question becomes 1 of
10:13
reliability. Sure, fentanyl kills and it
10:17
kills a lot of people, but how many people are taking exactly
10:22
the same amount that aren't dying?
10:25
And we don't know the answer to that question.
10:27
We, we just, we don't have those.
10:29
We don't have that that information.
10:31
Because we don't have that information, we can't
10:34
necessarily say this would be the most effective way to do it.
10:39
When we say that fentanyl is deadly, we tend to hear that as
10:43
meaning it produces certain and immediate death.
10:47
Pharmacologically, that's not what the statistics in the
10:53
overdoses established. So the question is not a strange
10:59
question it it's not out of place.
11:04
But the answer is not yes, fentanyl can kill you.
11:07
Yes, America has actually used it in execution being frightly
11:12
easy to overdose on. It does not necessarily make a
11:15
drug, you know, predictable enough to become the execution
11:20
drug of choice. And that's, I guess, where we
11:23
have to leave it with that. That's the reason why we don't
11:25
do that is because it's simply not reliable enough to make sure
11:31
that we do this correctly. Hope that answers your question.
11:35
Probably more, far more than you wanted, but that's how I do
11:39
things sometimes. Stay with us, We'll be right
11:41
back. Welcome back to Zai Dave.
12:17
You want to join me texting 209565 Dave 209-565-3283 unless
12:24
you happen to have the Super secret private number, in which
12:26
case you already know that so and some of you do I know e-mail
12:33
Dave at the Dave bowmanshow.com. It's weird I'm already
12:36
establishing super secret lines. Got a 711 in your town?
12:42
We had one here and not only we have a 711, but it was perfectly
12:47
positioned. It was on the busiest corner in
12:49
town, a couple of blocks from the high school and the middle
12:53
school, across the street from from major shopping near the
12:59
YMCA. It was great.
13:01
My son loves 711. He always has.
13:06
When we were in Manteca and he was in preschool, the preschool
13:09
was near a 711 and I would, I would pick him up from preschool
13:13
and we would have to stop at 7:11 to get a doughnut 'cause he
13:16
just, he just loved it wasn't that he loved the doughnut.
13:19
I think he liked the experience of going with me to the 711 to
13:23
buy the doughnut. That's what that's what I think
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he really liked and he still does.
13:28
And so it would be not unusual for me to be sitting here seven,
13:32
8:00 at night and him to come in and say, dad, can we go for a
13:35
ride? And going for a ride is his code
13:38
for can we go to 711? Can we go to the the store and
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get snackage? Sure.
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I don't think I've ever told him no, not on that anyway.
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And so we would go down to 711 and get a doughnut or whatever
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and just have a conversation. It was enjoyable.
13:56
There is a story, however, in the New York Post this week
14:00
about government inspections and 711 stores and and convenience
14:05
stores in general, but specifically 711 stores.
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I bring this up because our 711 back at the beginning of the
14:11
summer went out of business, closed, shut down, almost
14:16
instantaneous, which was weird because it's always busy,
14:20
there's always people in there, so it can't be a traffic
14:26
problem. So suddenly it just shut the
14:29
doors. About four months later it
14:32
reopened, but not as a 711. Now it's just the Silverdale
14:36
Mini Mart and it's literally the same people with the same
14:41
products, just not 711. It started some conversations
14:48
around here that went an interesting way, which I, I
14:50
didn't participate in, but I thought were interesting.
14:52
And then when I saw this New York Post article, it was like,
14:55
oh, wait a minute. Government inspections found
14:58
significant price accuracy problems, specifically at 711
15:04
and Circle KS products were advertised at 1 price, but they
15:08
were consistently ringing up at higher prices at checkout.
15:14
Now, of course, convenience stores aren't a place where
15:17
you're paying a lot of attention to price anyway, but for an
15:20
ordinary customer that can be quite irritating.
15:25
There's a bigger question. What happens when that happens,
15:29
when the the prices are consistently being raised up,
15:33
but it isn't the actual, it isn't the customer spending
15:36
their own money? What happens when that customer
15:42
is playing with an EBT card that is funded by the taxpayers?
15:46
This story suddenly becomes a lot more interesting when you
15:48
realize that some of the money going through those registers
15:52
was ours, which led to some of the questions about our 711
16:00
closing. Now Circle K failed 82% of the
16:05
inspections in Columbus, OH, 62% in North Carolina.
16:09
In other words, in 82% of their overall inspections they were
16:15
doing this in Columbus, OH and North Carolina. 711 failed in
16:21
Ontario County, New York, 37% in Los Angeles at 1.
16:26
Arizona 7/11/12 of 25 tested products scanned well above the
16:30
advertised price. Now it's important to keep in
16:34
mind that these are results from particular jurisdictions and
16:37
that 82%, it's not proof that 82% of of Circle K's around the
16:42
country are overcharging customers.
16:44
Although it's a trend, you know, but they are substantial enough
16:50
to establish some questions about why this is happening.
16:54
When you add in SNAP benefits and the fact that 711 and Circle
16:59
KS were accepting those at the participating locations, you
17:04
could use the SNAP to buy what is commonly called what I refer
17:07
to as junk food, soda, candy, similar products.
17:12
And these are major convenience store products.
17:15
It's what we buy when we go SNAP.
17:18
Money, of course, is taxpayer money administered as a benefit.
17:22
If a $4.49 SNAP eligible item is advertised for 399 and it rings
17:27
up at 4:49, who's paying that extra $0.50?
17:34
Look, I I get it. The evidence is circumstantial.
17:38
But circumstantial evidence is still evidence.
17:42
What we know is that SNAP dollars are being spent in
17:44
convenience stores. What we also know is that these
17:47
chains have price accuracy failures.
17:52
It's reasonable therefore to assume or at least suspect that
17:56
some Snap transactions were being overcharged.
18:01
We we don't know specifics. We don't know that.
18:04
We don't know that Snap customers were specifically
18:06
being targeted, although that was the discussion here was
18:11
that, hey, if they're not accepting SNAP benefits anymore,
18:17
they can't overcharge on these things.
18:18
They're not making as better good profit.
18:21
Maybe that contributes to the fact that they're going out of
18:23
business. And if 7 elevens were being
18:27
monitored, if we reopen to something else, we we don't know
18:35
that the company's deliberately designed this.
18:37
We don't know exactly how many SNAP dollars were overcharged,
18:41
but you don't have to prove to somebody at corporate
18:43
headquarters has ordered this. What we're asking here is why
18:46
nobody seems to be interested in finding out how much taxpayer
18:49
money went through those registers that the government
18:52
inspectors themselves say weren't charging the advertised
18:55
prices. It there's a there's another
18:59
wrinkle to this, by the way, too.
19:00
What if somebody, you know legitimately on SNAP, they got
19:04
$300 in SNAP benefits relating and an erroneous price or a
19:10
fixed price like this consumes an an additional $10.00 of that
19:13
balance. The recipient has also lost $10
19:18
in purchasing power. If, if that happens, they're not
19:22
just ripping us off, they're ripping off the people that
19:24
we're trying to help. Taxpayer benefits aren't buying
19:29
what they're supposed to be buying.
19:32
The retailer receives money they weren't entitled to under the
19:34
displayed price, and the recipient loses food purchasing
19:37
power. That's a problem, too. 711's
19:43
North America's network, by the way, has been contracting.
19:47
Parent reported hundreds of closures, including the one
19:49
here, and has announced hundreds more as part of its
19:52
restructuring. Circle K has also been closing,
19:55
disposing of and restructuring locations, although acquisitions
20:00
mean its overall network isn't collapsing.
20:05
These companies were already pruning margins on the stores.
20:09
They're pruning marginal stores. Now we're changing what SNAP
20:13
dollars can be purchasing inside some of these stores because we
20:16
have Research on SNAP households shows, sodas, candy, energy
20:22
drinks were common purchases. It happened to be an enormously
20:26
important to these convenience store categories.
20:30
As state restrictions begin to take hold, we got to ask
20:34
questions. Is is the traffic declining in
20:37
these stores? Do customers substitute cash for
20:40
EBT? Do the marginal stores close?
20:44
Does the merchandise mix change? Do the prices change?
20:51
All these are legitimate questions.
20:54
We got to bring this back, though, to Government
20:56
Accountability rather than candy.
20:58
We, the taxpayers spend money through SNAP.
21:02
We authorize private businesses to redeem those benefits.
21:05
And government inspectors subsequently discovered that
21:07
some participating retailers have serious price accuracy
21:11
problems. So who's auditing this?
21:15
The issue isn't whether somebody used SNAP to buy a Coke or
21:18
whether they even deserve to. And that's, that's a completely
21:21
different discussion. The actual question is much
21:23
simpler. If we said, OK, you can spend
21:27
$3.99 on something and it's advertised for $3.99, why should
21:34
the retailer be able to charge $4.49 at the register?
21:40
There may be a perfectly innocent explanation for all of
21:43
this. And if there is, fine, let's
21:45
find out. Because once you're accepting
21:48
taxpayer funded benefits, this isn't just a dispute between a
21:51
customer and the convenience store anymore.
21:54
Now it's between the taxpayer and the the folks there.
22:03
Stay with us, we'll be right back.
22:28
Oh, I hate it when I do that. Welcome back, it's me Dave and
22:31
join me 565 Dave 5653283. e-mail Dave at the Dave bowmanshow.com.
22:37
So yesterday I had medical appointments.
22:42
Have you seen what's going on though at the SUM Summit?
22:46
AI Summit RFK went to the summit and RFK junior sorry and
22:53
informed us that AI medicine is a thing.
23:01
And one of them, and forgive me, I don't remember who off the top
23:04
of my head said that it would be basically malpractice to go to
23:12
the doctor and not have done your AI research before you go.
23:18
Now that's interesting to me because I do do my AI research
23:21
before I go. I've, I've used AIS,
23:24
particularly in the last couple years medically because it's
23:29
helpful. Although in one famous case, it
23:32
backfired spectacularly on me when I tore a muscle in my leg.
23:37
I thought I had toured my Achilles.
23:40
And because I biased the whole question, I said with the
23:43
symptoms, and then I said, did I tear my Achilles?
23:46
And it said, well, it certainly sounds like you did.
23:49
And so instead of going to my doctor, my podiatrist, a couple
23:52
of days later, I went to the ER. The ER looked at it for
23:56
literally 30 seconds and charged me $5000.
24:02
And by the way, I did not tear my Achilles so there you go.
24:05
So RF KS statement that a a a medical second opinion is better
24:10
informed than doctors as AI may not fly that well with me.
24:17
I understand the attraction but I'm I'm not convinced my I have
24:21
problems with modern medicine in general.
24:22
Doctors of course have less time with patients now.
24:25
Insurance companies influence the treatment decisions.
24:28
They have these protocols, and sometimes you feel like these
24:32
protocols are being replaced with individualized care.
24:35
Why? I don't have a cholesterol
24:37
problem. In fact, the problem I do have
24:38
with cholesterol is that I don't have enough of it.
24:41
I know that's weird, but it's true.
24:44
It's been true since I was a kid, even all these years of my
24:50
weight issues. People just assume your your
24:52
cholesterol is through the roof, and mine isn't.
24:55
But because of certain things, they follow protocols and so
24:58
they put me on certain drugs to, to deal with cholesterol.
25:02
Well, why am I on this? That has side effects.
25:05
I don't need this. Well, it took two years to get
25:09
an answer to that question, but I finally did.
25:12
And this this way of doing things in modern medicine leaves
25:15
patients with, with questions where you could just say to AI,
25:20
Hey, look, this, these are you can put in your, your numbers
25:23
and say, here's my test results. Why, Why is he prescribing this
25:26
drug? And AI can explain those lab
25:29
results, medical terminology. It was very useful on my
25:33
shoulder surgery. It explained what the hell they
25:36
were doing to me. I didn't know.
25:38
I mean, they use these medical terms and I don't know what it
25:41
means, but it was helpful for that.
25:45
It can lead to being able to ask questions to your doctor that,
25:48
hey, does this, does this really matter?
25:51
And possibly even identify alternatives that are worth
25:54
discussing, even if the doctor's not really into that.
25:59
And it gives me a patient, gives me time to explore questions
26:02
doctors may not have time to address.
26:04
But is that really, as RFK put it, a second opinion?
26:10
AI cannot examine me physically, it doesn't necessarily have the
26:16
complete medical picture, and information is not the same
26:20
thing as clinical judgement. Theoretically at least, a doctor
26:24
is a professional who is accountable for the diagnosis
26:27
and AI. Of course it's not.
26:31
The irony of all this is that we're very frustrated because
26:34
doctors increasingly are relying on protocols and algorithms,
26:38
which is basically just AI in paper form.
26:43
Would replacing that with an even bigger algorithm actually
26:46
fix the problem? AI look should not be replacing
26:54
your doctor as much as I would love to have Doctor McCoy and
26:58
his medical tricorder in the medical computer and that much
27:01
as I would love to have that AI should not replace the doctor.
27:05
And and yet another way that Star Trek was forward-looking
27:08
despite all that technology. Remember, I'm just a good old
27:11
country doctor Jim, and he would do things that you know, the
27:17
computer would, would be you'd argue with the computer.
27:20
It it can, however, AI can, however, make the patient better
27:24
informed and that's a good thing.
27:27
I, I, if you think of it as a second set of eyes rather than
27:30
as a second opinion, as RFK put it, maybe the future then isn't
27:36
doctor versus AI. Maybe it's patient plus doctor
27:41
plus AI. And that is a good thing.
27:46
It's not making doctors obsolete.
27:48
It's giving me enough information to ask my doctor
27:52
better questions and you as well.
27:55
And that has to be helpful. Welcome to the 21st century.
28:00
Take the time right now. Tell the people that matter in
28:01
your life. You love them very much.
28:02
You'd miss them if they weren't there.
28:03
So don't pass up those opportunities.
28:06
You don't want to have that regret plausibly live.
28:08
I'm Dave Bowman. My show will be back on Monday.
28:11
I'll be here on Sunday for what? The frock.
28:14
And back on Monday, back at it again.
28:17
See you then. Everybody have a great weekend.
28:19
Enjoy everything that's happening and remember.
28:22
But it goes quick.