Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #111: Interview with Priscilla Gagne, Paralympic Athlete, Judo Canada

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Remarkable World Commentary Episode #111: Interview with Priscilla Gagne, Paralympic Athlete, Judo Canada · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

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Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J. Jarden LBAP and MBA invites you to listen to her bi weekly
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podcast, Remarkable World Commentary hear Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
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insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners.
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Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
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especially kids with disabilities.
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Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach,
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dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
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law graduate, and podcast commentator.
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She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
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skills, and expertise in access, technology and information.
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As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles,
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she just wants to make things better than possible.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello and welcome to another episode of The Remarkable World Commentary.
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I'm Donna J. Jordan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly
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through sound, touch and stubborn optimism.
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I am a law graduate, an accessibility consultant,
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an author, a lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
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You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November of 2010,
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I won the landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its website
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accessible to every Canadian, not just to cyclic ones.
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And in July of Live 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more
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than two dozen disability groups with equal access into federal law and most recently,
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on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Majesty's
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Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removal of barriers.
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When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a pottery studio,
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you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss,
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producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
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gadgets talk back in plain language.
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Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into
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everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench,
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where policy meets live experience and live experience sparks fresh ideas.
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Now, before we jump into this to today's conversation,
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let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a changemaker whose work is every bit as
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remarkable as the world that we are trying to build.
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I'm very pleased, and I'm very privileged to welcome Priscilla Garnier to our show.
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Priscilla, welcome to the remarkable world.
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Priscilla Gagne: Thank you so much. Wow, what an introduction.
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You are incredible. What a phenomenal intro.
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I love Stubborn Optimist.
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I'm going to start using that.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, I am sure that you are ready and willing to take up the baton on to move on.
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Okay, so let's start with the beginning.
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And Priscilla, I'd love to begin at the very beginning.
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Take me back to your early years in Granby and Sarnia,
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and help my listeners to understand what childhood child was like for you growing up
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with retinitis pigmentosa.
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Priscilla Gagne: Sure. So my parents didn't know that I had a vision impairment when I was born.
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There's. Sorry. Go ahead.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I said, oh.
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Priscilla Gagne: Oh, yeah. Yeah. They didn't know it took them.
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I think I was 18 months old when my mom noticed that my eyes were shaking.
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I guess she was changing my diaper or she was doing something and she was trying to like,
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get me to follow her fingers.
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She was wiggling her fingers and she's trying to get my eyes to follow her fingers.
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And apparently I could do it, but my eyes were making like little circles
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as they were focusing so hard on, on the movement.
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And so she brought me into the doctor and they just said,
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bring me back when I'm older and we'll get glasses.
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So when I was three we ended up moving to Ontario.
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But so we were back and forth from different hospitals,
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Montreal and Ontario. And they said it was a lot more serious than they knew and that I
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would probably go blind.
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And at first they thought that it was leber's congenital amaurosis.
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They put me under so many different types of testing because they thought it could they
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were wondering, is it a tumor that's blocking something?
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Is it they really didn't know.
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So they, I did, I went through a lot, a lot of testing and finally they just said
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it's leber's congenital amaurosis.
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Eventually they said it was macular degeneration.
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And then I went along and rod cone dystrophy.
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And then I went many, many years, a good ten years where they just
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didn't know. They just they didn't have a diagnosis for me.
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And it wasn't until I was probably 25 when they,
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a neuro ophthalmologist and a retinal consultant finally made the discovery that it
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was a rare form of retinitis pigmentosa that hadn't yet been studied.
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So that's why they were a little bit unaware. So childhood with that in mind.
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So my vision, I had night vision, couldn't see in the dark.
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Or if it was dimly lit, I couldn't follow things.
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It was too fast or like busy.
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The room was too full of stuff and people I couldn't keep track.
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I couldn't follow anybody.
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Little things. Like I couldn't follow a hockey puck. I couldn't find toys on the
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ground. That sort of thing.
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Couldn't read anything that wasn't extremely large. Bold print. And so but I had a
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tenacity. I was born with a just wanted grit,
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you know, I just wanted to do everybody else is doing and just try to stop me. So but I
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was also extremely shy.
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So the combination of those two things, me being shy and yet me having this strong
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desire to belong and to just do what everybody else is doing kind of clashed.
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And I eventually, because, you know, going through school became
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difficult at home, I was allowed to do pretty much anything.
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My parents were divorced.
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And so my dad, when I go to my dad's house, he would basically let me try anything with
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my older brother. You know, safety in mind, but one of the like,
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you can scrape your knees and you'll be fine. You'll figure it out. You know, you'll learn
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your limits. But my mom was the opposite.
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Like, you can ride a bike, but you have to wear a shoulder pad. You have
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to wear knee pads, elbow pads, you know, wrist guards.
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If she could have wrapped me in bubble wrap, she would have, but love her for it.
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But in you all of that to say, I had no real limits at home.
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I was allowed to experiment and just be a kid and just try things.
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And my family was super supportive. Cousins, aunts,
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uncles. I mean, we just, I had all the support one could dream of,
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but that all would change when I started school.
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So in school, they didn't want me running around on the equipment.
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They didn't want me doing the Terry Fox run. They didn't want me, you know,
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I wanted to join the track team and nobody volunteered to guide me and they wouldn't
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assign anybody. So I just wasn't allowed to run.
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And, you know, fast forward when I turned 14,
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I went to W Ross MacDonald school for the Blind and Visually Impaired in Brantford,
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Ontario. My mom didn't want me to, and I guess the people from Brantford had
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tried for many years. And while I was in elementary school to convince her to let me
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go to the school, and I didn't know, she never told me about it. And so my vision
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resource teacher in the seventh grade, she was telling me or eighth grade,
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I think I was in eighth grade. She was telling me about it and I was like,
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well, this sounds amazing. I want to go check it out.
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You know, I didn't care that it was residential.
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I didn't care that I had to live there for the week and come back. I just wanted to see
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this dreamland of all things sports, you know?
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And so I got to go for a tour.
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My mom came, the vision resource teacher came,
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my e my educational assistant, she came and my grandma and my mom and dad.
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And so here we came, my little entourage all in different cars.
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I think we had like 3 or 4 cars.
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And I don't know why we didn't just carpool.
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But anyway we drove about 2.5 hours to Brentford and I got a tour of the school and,
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and the residence what life might look like.
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And man, the gymnasium, they had goalball courts,
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which I didn't know about goalball yet.
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But they had an indoor track which really attracted me that outdoor track,
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which really I loved running.
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They had wrestling mats.
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So I knew they had a wrestling team that was intriguing to me and I just thought,
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wow, they don't hold people back here. Like we can just do things.
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So I was like, sign me up, you know?
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And much to my mother's chagrin, I think she cried more than I did when I
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left. But she was, she was our, she knew it was good for me.
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So she let me go. But I only stayed there for two years.
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I learned all the things I needed to learn, to advocate for myself,
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to speak up for myself.
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I met my best friend Whitney there, and she really she she didn't,
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she was not a pushover. You know, she, she, I learned from her to have a
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backbone, you know? So I learned how to advocate for myself,
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but with a little more finesse, maybe, than she might have had.
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But all that to say, I went back to the main school system,
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mainstream system for 11th and 12th grade.
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And I loved it. I absolutely loved it.
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I did track and field.
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I tried out for the rugby team.
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They wisely let me be the water girl.
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And but what I loved about that whole situation is I tried to hide my vision
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impairment and thought, I'm just gonna try out like everybody else
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and see if they notice.
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And so I tried, but, you know, there was a couple things that they were
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having us do. And I was like, oh, I don't know if I can do that safely.
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And so I would just kind of skip over them.
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But I do everything else, all the sprints, you know,
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everything. And I didn't know the entire time.
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They already knew who I was.
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And they knew that I had a vision impairment. And so they weren't making me do anything
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crazy. But then at the end of it all when, you know,
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and they put me as a fullback, which to this day, I don't know what that is
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for the tryouts, I didn't know what my job was.
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And we, you know, they'd say, okay, these are the people who are on the
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team. I don't know if they truly cut anyone, to be honest,
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but they didn't just let me sit on the bench and be part of the team and wear the uniform.
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They found something for me to do and made me part of the team in a valuable way.
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You know, they gave me the assignment of being the water girl,
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So I had my job at. Every game was I had empty about 12 empty,
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huge, like two litre water bottles that I had to clean out.
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And they all were in a tray, so I had to clean them all out,
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fill them all up before every game.
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And then when they call water, I just had to run towards the sound of water
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and jiggling all these water bottles, you know?
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And I loved it. And the girls accepted me.
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Everybody accepted me when the girls got ribbons for for winning stuff.
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I got the same ribbon.
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It was just a beautiful thing.
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It was. I know I wasn't on the field tackling people or,
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you know, getting the ball, but it just, it was such a special thing that
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they allowed me to participate in that way. And by the time I graduated high school,
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I had played multiple sports and had made a goal to go to the Paralympics.
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And and so with the support of my family and,
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and just the coaches at the right place at the right time.
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And I think it was divine appointments that happened.
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I was able to participate in three different Paralympics.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What can I say? I mean, like you are an advocate.
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Welcome to the club. I mean, I am very impressed.
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And, you know, before I came into your life, okay,
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you had already tried sports such as wrestling.
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Priscilla Gagne: And.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Volleyball. What did those early experiences teach you about competition,
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confidence, and the kind of athlete that you wanted to become?
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Priscilla Gagne: Wrestling and cross country running, I think were the were the first two that I
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really learned a big lesson and it was music is powerful and it can,
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it can set your attitude, set your mood.
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So I learned to become very careful what I listen to,
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because if it was, I don't think it's anybody's secret.
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I'm a huge Celine Dion
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fan. So.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Here, here.
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Priscilla Gagne: You too. Yeah. And so I would listen to Celine Dion songs.
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I would listen to different things. And, but there were certain songs that would just
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get me up and ready to go.
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And I just felt like, I'm ready to go.
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For cross country, there was one that I had in my mind was,
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do you remember Tom petty and the Heartbreakers?
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They had this song, I Won't Back Down.
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Yes or Won't Back Down.
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Yeah. That song was I was introduced to that after the nine over 11 Tribute to Heroes
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concert. And so that one just kind of really became my,
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my heart. And then also there was a song by Celine Dion called A New Day Has Come that
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she had come out with. And so that one was was huge for me because it was like new
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beginnings. And the song That's the Way It Is.
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That was another song of mine.
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And then the one by Kelly Clarkson.
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You know actually she had just one going back many years now.
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She had just won American Idol. And so her breakaway song was playing a lot on the
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radio. And it's like those songs are all seasonal for me.
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They all meant something to me in that season and helped me get in the right mindset for
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change, or get right in the mindset for the zone to compete in and to be ready.
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Some other lessons was I can't.
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And one of the biggest, probably life lessons that I learned in,
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in that was you can't wait on other people for your,
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your time like you have, you can't rely and wait and just wait and
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wait for somebody to come and help you. You just got to get out and do it. I remember
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there was a race and I didn't know where we were warming up.
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And my coach, I couldn't find my coach and I knew the race was coming up,
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so I never did. I had two choices.
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I could either just say, well, I don't know where the warm up area is.
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I don't really even know where to go.
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So therefore I'm just not going to run. And then, you know, I don't have to worry about
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being nervous. Or option two was, you know what?
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I don't care how well I do.
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I don't care what time I get there. If I'm there before they,
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you know, shoot the gun. I'm racing with everything I have,
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whether or not I see my coach first.
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And that's what I did.
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I couldn't find my coach, never did find my coach. I got on the line
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just at the last second.
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They were actually upset with me that I was late until I told them I was legally blind
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and couldn't find the spot, and they were more compassionate at that
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point. But that decision has followed me through my whole life.
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Like I don't wait on other people.
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I if the help is there, fantastic.
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But I'm not going to allow other people's behavior decisions or actions determine my
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path in life. And that just, I guess I don't know if I knew that that
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decision had been made. Like I don't think I had the words for it at that time,
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but I remember feeling it in my soul, if that makes any sense.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And yes, I do.
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Priscilla Gagne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and I think another important lesson was too
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is just who you surround yourself with. They're going to either build you up your
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teammates, even on your own team, you know, they can build you up or take you
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down or encourage you or discourage you or make you could feel alone or you could feel
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not alone. But ultimately it's up to me who, who am I going to choose to hang out with if
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there's nobody positive to be with, and I'm going to put my headphones on and get
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myself in the game mentally before I ever get out there physically.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But I think it takes a special person to, to have those inner resources to move
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forward. Not not many of us
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do. Not many. Yeah.
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Priscilla Gagne: It's not easy.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No, no, it's not easy to say like, I'm not going to wait for somebody.
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I'm going to I'm going to get there.
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A lot of people are afraid.
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They're too shy. They're not aggressive enough.
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But in today's world, that is changing so fast.
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You got to be able to, you know, say to yourself,
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listen self, I'm getting up and I'm going.
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And I admire your attitude.
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I think it's terrific.
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Priscilla Gagne: Yeah. It's a stubbornness in the best of ways.
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You know, people think to be stubborn is a negative thing.
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But I actually think we can fuel that for change and we can fuel it for for something
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very positive in our own lives.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, Judah was not your first sport.
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So what was it about judo that truly grabbed you?
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And when did your first sense that this could become a Paralympic journey rather than
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simply another athletic challenge?
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Priscilla Gagne: I actually entered judo with the Paralympics in mind.
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And so I was actually on the national goalball team and originally was going to try
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to aim for the Paralympics with them, but I just really missed combat.
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You know, I really because I was a wrestler, that was my passion for a good five, six
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years. Well, all through my childhood wrestling with my brother and my cousins,
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but then, you know, competitively on a mat wrestling for a few years that I it was my
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passion. I loved it, and I just missed it.
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But it's not in the Paralympics.
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So after a year of being on the national team and like every national team,
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there was like team drama.
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There was, you know, politics and which is normal for any and every sport.
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But when you're super passionate about a sport like judo definitely got a lot of
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issues with like lots of drama, lots of, oh my goodness,
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like emotions high and low and politics and policies and,
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but I'm passionate enough about the sport and I love the sport enough to deal with it.
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So I wasn't passionate enough about goalball to deal with it.
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So I just switched and I thought, you know what? I know there's judo in the
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Paralympics and that's a whole lot more like wrestling. So I switched and I showed up to
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the YMCA and to the YMCA.
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Sensei. Because I, I have a mutual friend who's he was actually one of my teachers at
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the blind school and I met him in an airport.
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This is one of the divine appointments. I say. I met him at an airport gate where both
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B1 athletes, like blind athletes, and we meet at a gate and in an airport
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somewhere that's not Montreal and flying to different places.
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And and I said, are you still doing judo?
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He's like, no, I'm trying goalball.
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And I was like, oh, I want to try judo.
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So he gave me his coach, the national coach at that times email
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address, who told me, hey, go, okay, this is where you live in
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Sarnia. Go to this YMCA.
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And there's a there's a volunteer sensei that can help you.
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So contact the YMCA, sign up for class, show up.
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I don't even have a judogi yet.
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Like I can't even put my belt on myself yet.
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You know, he had to. I'm 23 years old and the coach has to tie my belt for me.
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And because I never put one on before and he's like,
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so what? What's your goal?
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Judo. Why did you start judo?
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I looked at him. I'm like, I want to go to the Paralympics.
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Oh. He laughed at me until he realized I was serious.
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And he's like, oh well, okay then let's start working.
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So that's how that all started.
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Local YMCA and a shout out to all those volunteer sensei's out there,
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you know, grassroot level.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Incredible. For listeners who may be hearing terms like B1,
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J1, weight classes and classification and feeling a little lost,
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could you walk us through how para judo works and what people often misunderstand about
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blind and low vision athletes in this sport.
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And that includes me. Tell me more.
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Priscilla Gagne: Sure. So every sport, just to clarify, the B1J1M1M13.
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Just to clarify all of that stuff.
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All of that is classification based on for me because it's vision,
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it's vision classification for people in wheelchairs.
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It would be I guess mobility classification.
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So quadriplegic versus paraplegic versus you know,
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like limbs missing versus, so it's, it's all classification and,
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and so you compete against people in your same classification.
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Now it's impossible to have two people.
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Two. Exactly. Or like Everyone in say judo is J one is fully blind,
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J two is low vision, so fully blind you might have light reception,
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but you have no acuity.
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Low vision. You can still read an eye chart and they use certain measurements.
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So like with your peripheral vision, they take that into account.
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For example, I have four degrees of peripheral vision.
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So I can see contrast.
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I can see some color like I can, I can sometimes make out shapes of people
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like, hey, that's a person because I know intellectually I don't can't tell you their
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hair color. I can't tell you what they're wearing, but it's like some sometimes I think
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you know, there's like a short person and I think it's a garbage can.
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So to give you an idea of what my vision looks like.
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Yeah. And so because I have just four degrees of vision and no acuity,
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no central vision I can't read an eye chart or anything like that.
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I'm classified as J one.
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So no vision like blind.
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J2 you can read the eye chart.
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You. To a certain degree, if you.
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And then, you know people with albinism.
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It's really difficult for them to get classed into J2 because for judo,
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especially because they have good and bad days,
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it's all dependent on the lighting. So it depends where they get tested.
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So it's a, it's a thing.
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So all the J1 athletes compete against one another.
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All the J2 athletes compete against one another.
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Now you'll hear different terms like in swimming.
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It might be S13 or S11 or M11 or S.
24:00
It's just the same thing.
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But because swimming has many more disabilities they have a lot more numbers,
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you know. So same with track, you know, you could be a wheelchair racer,
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you could be an amputee racer, you could be a blind racer,
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you could be a low vision racer. So all the just,
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that's just to clean it all up and make it super simple.
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It's just classification.
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Like, who are they competing against? And then weight class.
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So for me and judo, we have weight classes.
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So you don't put someone who's my size. I'm a 52kg fighter against somebody who's like
24:35
90kg. So they do weight classes.
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So everybody in -52 fights together, everybody in -60 fights together,
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everybody in plus 70 fights.
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So it just helps keep it a little bit more safe and fair.
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So that's that's that.
24:52
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. Okay. Yeah. And you've spoken openly about all about having only a
25:02
very small of peripheral vision and no central vision.
25:09
Correct. That shaped the way you train, the way you prepare and trust your body on
25:17
the mat. Matt.
25:20
Priscilla Gagne: That it's years of one.
25:23
It's years of experience.
25:24
And because I tested my limits as a child, I'm not as afraid.
25:27
I know what it is to get hurt.
25:29
I know how to. I know how long it roughly takes to get healed.
25:33
Like it's not like a. To me.
25:34
It's. I'm not afraid to be hurt.
25:36
I think if I never was allowed to do anything when I was a kid,
25:39
I might be a little bit more hesitant. I think it would make me think twice about
25:42
doing stuff. So I think it's super important when you're young.
25:46
So if there's parents out there of, you know,
25:48
young people, put them in sports, let them get hurt,
25:51
let them see it's not the end of the world. If you know, they get a black eye or break
25:54
their nose. Like it's fine. They'll, they'll go on. But all that to say what,
26:01
what makes it, I guess how you can say accessible or like feel like I belong.
26:08
You know, I really have a hard time now hearing the word inclusion because I feel
26:12
like people just use it as a, they just throw it around just to make them
26:15
their company or their organization sound good.
26:18
But when it, when you look at how, how do you actually apply that?
26:21
You don't see it. Or at least not for people with disabilities.
26:24
It's rare. And so but it makes you feel included when the,
26:29
in my case, the coaches and sensei's in the dojo,
26:33
when they see you and they, they, they make they make it a natural
26:37
process of the training to guide you.
26:40
They don't make it a big deal. They don't you know,
26:44
they don't just leave you hanging. They don't forget about you. Or like other students will
26:48
come and help guide, you know, and they ask questions.
26:51
You got to be open. Like I had to be open to tell them, okay, this is how you can best
26:53
help me. You know, let me grab your elbow or just grab my arm.
26:56
If there's chaos everywhere, just grab my arm and I'll follow you. You
26:59
know, like you just it's being willing to work with people.
27:03
So one number one, I would say they have to have the people I'm training with to make it
27:07
a positive training. Number one, they have to have empathy and compassion.
27:12
Number two, they have to have skill.
27:15
If you have skill, but no empathy, I don't want to work with you.
27:20
I'm not going to feel very welcomed with you. You know, if you have empathy but no skill,
27:24
then I'm going to get tired of you pretty quick because,
27:28
you know, with judo, if you can't, if you don't have the skill to help me, like,
27:31
you know, it's going to be a very long training. So and it's rare to find both.
27:38
And so when you can find someone that has both,
27:40
it changes the entire experience.
27:42
So my coach, Andre, who's recently retired, he's like a second father to me.
27:47
And he was great at that.
27:49
He had both empathy, compassion and skill, very knowledgeable,
27:54
gifted man. And he just applied everything.
27:58
He didn't treat me different.
27:59
He applied all the same principles because he was the national. He was the coach for the
28:03
National 1996 Olympics.
28:06
He brought the team to the 96 Olympics.
28:08
And and so then he became our coach.
28:11
He didn't treat it any lesser.
28:12
He he treated it the same.
28:14
He put us through the same rigorous trainings,
28:16
expectations all of that.
28:19
And so it's being wise and knowing my limits too.
28:24
So when we have a training camp and you've got judo people from all over the place that
28:28
don't know me and aren't familiar with people who are blind or visually impaired, and
28:31
there's like 200 of them on the mat.
28:33
I'm probably either going to find somebody who I'm comfortable with to guide run me,
28:38
and I'll just stick with them off to the side through the whole entire thing.
28:41
And I'll select whether I do the fights or not.
28:44
If it's a regular training and there's only like 40,
28:46
50 people on the mat, then I just, everybody knows to look out for
28:50
me and to watch out. And I mean, sure, we bump into each other and accidents
28:54
happen, but nothing drastic, you know, and it's just part of training,
28:59
but I feel safe and secure and in a place where I can just really have no issues with
29:05
spatial constriction restrictions, you know,
29:08
like I can just move around freely without the fear of anything.
29:11
So it's it's a beautiful thing. And that's because of the people around me and my
29:15
openness to tell them what, what I can see and what can best help me.
29:20
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So I guess it depends a lot on you being, you know,
29:23
like you driving the car, so to speak.
29:26
Right? Yeah. Cannot depend on other people to say,
29:29
oh, okay, she's vision impaired.
29:31
Let's do this for her.
29:32
It's a lot of you telling people what you need,
29:36
how you do it, when you do it, why you do it.
29:39
Is that correct? Yeah.
29:41
Priscilla Gagne: It's and it's through patient like I have to have patience too.
29:44
Yeah. Because, I mean, this is their first time,
29:47
you know, this able bodied world, their everyday life.
29:51
They don't see people with disability us.
29:53
It's all we know. It's our whole life morning till night.
29:56
You know, it's all we know.
29:57
But for them, they've never most of them have never experienced it before.
30:02
And so it's not that they're trying to be jerks.
30:05
It's not that they're trying to be obtuse. It's just they just don't know what they
30:07
don't know, you know? And so it's up to me to be patient and tell them,
30:12
hey, you know, this, can I just get, can you just assign someone to guide me.
30:17
And if they're a terrible guide, I'll be like, yeah, this one's not really
30:19
working out. Kind of a different one, you know,
30:22
instead of me just. And I get it.
30:24
It's not easy for everyone to say that. But look, when you want to when you want change
30:27
in your life, you have to make the change.
30:29
You can't just wish it upon yourself.
30:31
So sometimes you got to step out of the comfort zone and be like, hey, I really want
30:34
to do this, help me do this.
30:36
And and yeah, like you said, drive the car.
30:39
You just and be patient.
30:41
Try what they're doing.
30:42
See, see if it, if it works because maybe they thought of something I haven't yet,
30:46
you know? So I try it.
30:48
I'm willing to try pretty much everything just to see,
30:52
you know, and they respect that and I respect it too.
30:54
So yeah, I think.
30:57
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think this is very, very important is that,
30:59
you know, we or us as someone who is blind or visually impaired,
31:04
we have to drive the car.
31:06
We have to be patient.
31:07
We have to set the example.
31:09
And we cannot and must not expect others to know what to do.
31:14
You know, we are teachers for all of our
31:17
lives. Is that right?
31:19
Priscilla Gagne: Yeah. We're teachers and students all of our lives.
31:23
When we stop being one, the world gets much smaller.
31:26
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. And the thing is that it's a lot of stress on us,
31:30
but we got to learn how to manage it, right?
31:33
Priscilla Gagne: Yeah.
31:34
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
31:35
Priscilla Gagne: Absolutely.
31:37
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you once said that, quote, 90% of the fight is about mental
31:45
preparation. And the quote, when you say that,
31:50
what does mental preparation actually look like for you in the days and hours leading up
32:00
to a major competition?
32:03
Priscilla Gagne: That's a great question because this translates to life too.
32:06
So in competition, the days and hours and minutes leading up my mental prep,
32:13
A certain music. So I will have there's a, there's a,
32:17
there's an artist out there by the name of Travis King and he's got a song that I love
32:23
and he's got an album.
32:24
It's, there's no lyrics.
32:26
And it's like classical music, but mixed with like I don't know,
32:31
like pop or contemporary, like there's a beat to it.
32:34
There's drums, there's all kinds of stuff. But and I love it because it gives the
32:38
emotions, you know, it's almost like when you go to a concert and there's that music that's
32:43
playing, but there's no words, but it's like anticipation music,
32:46
you know, so you can create your own because if there's words,
32:50
then it's somebody else's story and you're putting your mind and your emotions into what
32:53
somebody else has written. And it's, it's guiding your mind a certain direction.
32:58
If you're listening to music that has no lyrics,
33:00
then you're free to create your own mental imagery.
33:04
And so for me, I'm picturing, you know, because I strategize what I'm going
33:09
to do against this opponent, what I'm going to do against that opponent.
33:13
And so I'll pick an opponent for that whole song.
33:16
I just think about that one opponent.
33:18
This is what I'm going to do. This is I know what she likes to do.
33:20
This is how I'm going to respond.
33:22
When I'm first to attack, this is what I'm going to do.
33:26
And if she responds this way, this is how I'm going to respond.
33:28
So I'm picturing this all in my mind.
33:31
I'm feeling it in my body.
33:32
My heart rate actually picks up.
33:34
You know, I twitch like it's, it's, it's amazing how connected the mind is
33:38
to your physical body.
33:40
And and then so as days leading up hours leading up,
33:45
I go fight by fight. And here's what I meant when I said that about 90% of the fight is
33:51
decided already before it even begins.
33:54
If you don't believe that you can, you're not going to.
33:58
If you don't believe, if you show up.
34:00
And I used to. Dreading the competition, dreading the fight,
34:04
dreading the assignment, dreading whatever.
34:07
It's just grueling and long and hard and difficult and the nerves can get to you.
34:12
And everything's just amplified. The noise, the lights,
34:15
the, you know, the smells, everything's just amplified and you just
34:18
can't wait to be done. It's like I used to just show up to a competition and just like,
34:21
I hate this feeling, I wish I could just be over like,
34:25
yeah. So that is very difficult to win when you go into a fight like that or into a
34:31
competition like that.
34:33
It's that attitude. It makes it extremely difficult to be successful.
34:38
The day I recognized it, I changed my mind.
34:42
I'm like, I don't care how I feel.
34:45
This is how I'm going to be.
34:47
And so I started saying, you know, I want to be here.
34:51
Even though I didn't physically, I didn't feel like it. Like I was like that
34:54
dreading it, you know, that in your belly, like I don't care if I
34:58
feel that way. I want to be here.
35:00
I want this. My opponents are going to eat the mat. I want to be here.
35:02
I trained to be here. I worked hard to be here,
35:04
and I'm gonna enjoy it.
35:07
I would say it out loud and mean it, you know,
35:09
like make sure I'm and I said it until I believed it.
35:12
And it got to the point where I started enjoying the competitions and it got and they
35:16
started getting fast. Like they go by faster.
35:19
The days weren't so long, the fights didn't seem so endless.
35:22
And when I go into a fight with that attitude,
35:26
I have a lot more power. I have a lot more energy.
35:29
It's amazing how negativity can suck your energy.
35:32
And when you go into a fight with that kind of negative attitude,
35:35
it sucks your energy. When you go into it, the positive attitude,
35:38
it's like you've got boundless energy.
35:40
So it's a big difference.
35:42
It's a very big difference.
35:45
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you would say that belief plays an important part in the way you tackle things
35:52
and in your daily life without.
35:54
Would you agree with that statement?
35:55
Priscilla Gagne: I do, absolutely. I believe you have to believe in yourself,
35:59
believe in your abilities, and believe in dreams,
36:02
even impossible dreams. I mean, me at seven,
36:05
eight, nine years old would have said it's impossible for me to be in the. Well, I
36:08
wouldn't have said it because I didn't. But like you could. Somebody could look at my
36:11
life at that time and say, there's no way you're going to go to the
36:14
games. They won't even let you, you know, join the local track team,
36:17
for crying out loud. How are you going to go to the Paralympics?
36:20
But I believed in myself to the point that I would be training.
36:25
I remember running to school, elementary school all the way up.
36:29
I remember running and timing myself.
36:31
How long did it take me to run from home to school?
36:33
And I didn't give myself permission for like,
36:35
the old lady with a walker, and I had to slow down to get around them.
36:38
You know, I'm like, oh, that just means I have to run that much
36:41
faster to make up that time.
36:42
So that's the attitude I went through my whole life until I was 23 or 24 when I was on
36:49
the national goalball team. And like, and I remember thinking,
36:52
I'm running and I'd be pushing myself in the gym and I'm like,
36:55
because this is what. Because I knew this is what athletes do.
36:59
Olympic athletes push themselves past what they think they can physically achieve.
37:04
And that's what makes the difference between an Olympic athlete and a really good track
37:10
athlete in high school or college athlete.
37:12
The difference is I'm willing to do something that nobody else is willing to do,
37:16
and I'm willing to push myself.
37:18
So that's what I would do. Even though I wasn't I was not on a team.
37:21
I had no idea how that day would come.
37:23
I didn't know when that day would come, but I would run.
37:27
I'd push myself because this is what Olympic athletes do.
37:29
Again, I didn't know about the Paralympics. So that was my mindset was, this is what
37:32
Olympic athletes do. So this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to be ready because
37:35
when that season comes and I find my sport and I find where I'm going to go to the
37:39
Paralympics or Olympics, then I'm going to be ready.
37:42
I'm not going to just show up out of shape.
37:44
I'm going to be ready.
37:45
And that's that. Believing in that, you know,
37:48
from the depth of your soul.
37:51
And if you don't, if you're like, oh, if you find it's a difficult thing to
37:54
change the way you think start saying it out loud and you don't have to listen to every
38:01
thought that comes in your head.
38:03
You know, you don't have to listen to every negative thought. Well, how are you going to
38:06
do this? Well, this is what you can tell yourself to shut up.
38:09
You know, you can tell your brain, hey, knock it off. I said this and say it out
38:13
loud. So you're hearing it too, you know I even when I had my vision used to
38:19
look in the mirror, I look at myself in the mirror, make eye contact with myself in the
38:23
mirror and be like, you are great.
38:25
You're amazing. You're going to do amazing things.
38:27
You know your dreams are coming true.
38:29
And I would look at myself in the eye and say that,
38:33
you know, and now obviously I can't see myself in the mirror anymore, but I still
38:36
have the same attitude.
38:38
Like I still talk to self-talk.
38:40
I still do it. You know.
38:42
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think that you are going to make a perfect guest speaker for an initiative that I have
38:48
launched. It's called Believing is Achieving.
38:51
We'll talk more about that offline.
38:53
Priscilla Gagne: Oh, I love that. Believing is.
38:55
Achieving.
38:56
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It's beautiful achieving, and it's the only way for you to own your own
38:59
future. I think you would be the perfect guest speaker.
39:03
Priscilla Gagne: But thank you. I'd be honored to be a part of something like that.
39:06
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you. Now the clock is starting to wind down,
39:09
but I wanted to ask you this question.
39:12
Moving to Montreal and training in Canada's high performance studio judo environment
39:21
story was a major step.
39:24
What did that move demand of you?
39:28
Not just athletically, but personally and emotionally.
39:36
Priscilla Gagne: That was one of the hardest moves I've ever had to make.
39:38
Probably one of two. And in my in all.
39:42
And I love change. I thrive on change.
39:46
So I was in Ottawa and I was turning in a pretty well renowned known dojo called
39:52
Takahashi Dojo. I had become close with everybody there.
39:55
And one of the coaches was an Olympic athlete in 96.
39:58
Her name is Natalie Gosselin.
40:00
And I had become close with her and she was helping me with everything,
40:03
like going grocery shopping.
40:05
When she goes grocery shopping, I'd send her my list too, and then she'd buy
40:08
it and I'd just e-transfer it, you know, just that kind of thing. So I had
40:13
an amazing support system and I lived right next to it.
40:18
And I knew Ottawa. I had gotten to know it. I'd been there a couple of years and I had
40:21
friends, my friend Whitney from high school I told you about earlier, she lived there and
40:25
her brother, like everybody I had known from goalball,
40:28
was there. And it was a great life.
40:31
But I knew I had grown to the point where if I,
40:34
if I wanted to do well in the Paralympics, I needed to go and train with the national
40:39
team so I could have more partners, more bodies, because everybody had kind of
40:43
gotten older and moved away from judo.
40:45
And so I had to train like the girls. So I had to train with the boys and the younger
40:49
boys, and then they grew up bigger and it was like,
40:51
well, now you're too big for me.
40:53
And so I was running out of partners.
40:55
So making the decision to move, you know, it was not an easy one.
41:00
I prayed, I remember because we were to give you a little glimpse.
41:04
We were. We were coming on Thursdays and training Thursday night,
41:08
Friday morning, Friday night, Saturday morning,
41:10
and then driving back to Ottawa Saturday afternoon.
41:14
Training in Ottawa Sunday morning Monday night,
41:18
Tuesday night, Wednesday night, and then back to Ottawa, back to Montreal on
41:21
Thursday. So I was doing that. I was training seven days a week. And I was,
41:25
I was getting exhausted.
41:27
And so one of the days when I stayed with Natalie and she,
41:31
she had rented a condo for her son because her son was in judo too.
41:34
And so I was staying with them and we would walk from her place to judo.
41:37
I remember praying like, all right, God, if you really want me to be
41:40
here, if it's really like your will to be here,
41:43
you, you need to make it obvious.
41:45
And I need a place to live right next to the Olympic Center,
41:47
because I am not going to try to take a bus and trains and then try to like,
41:51
I don't want all of that. I want to live right next to it where it's easy.
41:55
And, and then on the way, I said that prayer inside my head.
41:58
I didn't say it out loud, but.
42:00
And then when we were leaving judo, I don't know if we were leaving judo or just
42:04
about to get like we were crossing a street the last street before the Olympic training
42:08
center. And my coach goes, hey, there's a for rent sign over there on
42:13
that balcony. And it was an apartment for rent that was facing the Olympic Stadium,
42:17
which is where we train. And so I was like, oh,
42:20
and I knew it was my answer to prayer.
42:22
And I was like, oh, no, that means I have to move.
42:25
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh.
42:26
Priscilla Gagne: But yeah, so, you know, I moved and just everything went well as far
42:31
as that. And then I, I had to build and it wasn't the first time,
42:34
and it won't be the last time I had to rebuild a support system,
42:37
rebuild like find out where things are.
42:40
And of course, it's changing provinces.
42:41
So I had the support from the Canadian National Institute for the blind is different
42:46
when you're in Quebec. So you go on to a whole different system.
42:50
And it was like black logged by three months.
42:52
And so I couldn't get orientation and mobility lessons.
42:56
So I had to rely on sighted people from judo to walk me back and forth from home to to
43:01
judo and back to home again.
43:03
And it really was actually, it was beautiful.
43:06
And when I look back, it's like, wow, they really I didn't even
43:08
know these girls and some of these guys. And they just went the extra mile to walk me
43:12
home. And for the first little bit until I learned how to do it on my own,
43:16
navigating the metro system was kind of scary because it was trains that have gaps
43:22
between the buggies.
43:23
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, I.
43:24
Priscilla Gagne: Know about.
43:24
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Those.
43:25
Priscilla Gagne: Yeah. So that made me nervous.
43:27
I had to get over it took me about three months before I could take the metro
43:31
confidently and without fear of falling in between,
43:34
you know, thinking it's a door and walking between the cars. But yeah,
43:38
it was I adapted for sure.
43:40
And now I can run around Montreal just like the next person.
43:44
And mentally though, the hardest part I think was actually the training.
43:49
Because physically I could handle it no problem.
43:52
But mentally it was draining because nobody wanted to work with me.
43:56
I was different. I was the blind one and there it's unknown to them.
44:00
So getting training partners is like pulling teeth.
44:02
It's extremely difficult.
44:03
And it started at the top.
44:05
The coaches didn't force or encourage anybody to go with us,
44:08
so there were nights that I'd be there literally standing.
44:11
You know, we'd do the warm ups.
44:13
I didn't have a partner, so I have to go on the bike. And then when
44:16
we'd start doing the fight rounds, it'd be like 12 fight rounds. I might have 1
44:20
or 2 out of 12. So I'm just standing there getting cold.
44:23
And it was just, oh man, those first like 4 or 5,
44:26
six years was awful. We're leading right up until 2020 when Covid happened.
44:31
It was just it was so discouraging.
44:33
And it, it took every mental, you know, currency that I had to show up
44:39
every day. And and even that day, I remember that when to try because again,
44:45
it was so hard. There were nights I would get completely ready,
44:47
like winter time, you know, I'd get my snow pants on,
44:50
have my backpack on my back with all my gear and my cane.
44:53
I've got my tuke, I've got my beanie ready to go.
44:56
I put my hand on the door handle.
44:58
I'm like, why am I even going? You know, some days I go anyways and other days I just
45:02
take everything back off, put it, hang it in the closet and just go
45:05
snuggle up to my dog, you know, because it was just,
45:08
oh man, that was a hard season.
45:09
And then the day that I started doing this thing called I called recreation or
45:14
reimagine. And instead of me walking into this overwhelming building with like,
45:20
you know, that I didn't belong. It was their building. It was their training center that I
45:24
was trying to fit into or trying to be a part of.
45:29
And mentally that was where I was coming from. And I decided,
45:32
you know what? This is my building.
45:34
This is my home. This is where I train.
45:36
And so I'd walk in those doors.
45:38
And as soon as that, like crushing feeling of like the grandness of the building is a
45:43
little overwhelming at first for anyone, I think.
45:46
But so when I feel that like overwhelming or I feel inferior,
45:50
or if I was intimidated just by the structure of the building,
45:53
I'm like, you know what? This is my home.
45:54
This is where I train and they're coming to my home. They're coming to my territory. This
45:58
is my territory. So I started to own it.
46:01
And that made it so much easier to to get to training every day.
46:06
And I found it after a period of time, I didn't have to convince myself anymore.
46:10
Now I walk in and I feel like this is my stomping grounds.
46:13
This is my home. You know.
46:15
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: That is right. Courage, commitment.
46:20
I could go on and on, but I have a last question for you.
46:23
Sure. Now, Rio 2016 was your first Paralympic Games and finished fifth
46:33
in the world. Yes. Now, what did Rio teach you that became essential
46:41
for everything that came after?
46:46
Priscilla Gagne: I'm not immune to nerves.
46:48
I did not know I could get nervous.
46:52
Yeah, so I, I was really shocked because I remember going out for my first fight.
46:58
Okay, picture this. The stadium is full.
47:01
And now our competitions that we go international competitions,
47:04
there's hardly nobody in the stands. It's just a few local people that are there to
47:08
support the person they know, you know?
47:10
So the stands are relatively empty.
47:12
And now, you know, we show up in Rio and the stadium is completely full.
47:18
They sold out the tickets and the people, the crowd is so loud you can't even you can't
47:24
hear the coach, you can't hear nothing. And there's bright lights.
47:27
It's TV lights, there's cameras.
47:29
You have to walk up these stairs to get on a stage.
47:31
So you're actually on this huge platform is where they put the judo mats where you're
47:36
fighting. And so it's very big.
47:40
And, and I remember my legs were like heavy and shaking.
47:43
I remember thinking, I can't believe I'm nervous.
47:46
Like I never would have imagined that it could get get to me physically,
47:49
you know, so I started when I, when I left there,
47:54
I'm like, that's never going to happen again. So I started to realize I'm not immune to
47:58
being nervous. And I need to prepare on how to handle being nervous.
48:02
And how can I minimize all those feelings of grandiose like this place,
48:07
you know? And so I started to take that into every competition to the point,
48:13
okay, I talk about this a lot, but it really works to the point where I
48:18
remember coming back from Rio and getting off the elevator here at the Olympic Stadium to
48:21
go to the dojo where I trained the room where we train,
48:24
and I would picture myself when the doors of the elevator opened and I step out,
48:29
I would, like put myself in back in Rio.
48:32
And when they called my name and I'm stepping up to the stairs and and I would get all
48:36
nervous, you know, even though it's so not my current reality,
48:39
but mentally I would get there and I would get all nervous. And so I would do it every
48:44
single time until I didn't feel nervous anymore.
48:46
And I would do it randomly.
48:47
Like any door I walk through could be the elevator,
48:50
it could be the front door. It could be like I would just do it to myself just to so that
48:53
I could remind myself and be prepared of those nerves so that when the time came and
48:59
they really did call my name, it wasn't the first time I heard my name
49:02
called, you know what I mean? So it was, it was it made a big difference.
49:07
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What's next for Priscilla?
49:09
Where are you going next?
49:10
What are you doing next?
49:12
Priscilla Gagne: I am currently working on getting my green card application to be able to come to the US
49:17
and work with other blind athletes, especially with the 2020 games coming up.
49:22
Us gets athletes in every division, so I would really like to help develop some
49:25
of them. And so I'm competing, you know, and keeping my status as active and
49:33
active athlete so that I can attain that goal of getting the green card and helping
49:38
because, you know, in the States, there's a school for the blind in nearly
49:41
every state. Yeah, yeah.
49:43
And in Canada, we only have like 2 or 3 and only one of them is residential.
49:48
So it's a huge difference.
49:50
So I thought, how cool would it be to go from school to school and teach self-defense for
49:54
the blind and teach us judo?
49:57
Like create judo programs or even, do, you know,
50:01
inspirational speaking at some of these to, to push the kids like,
50:04
hey, you know, don't put a box and don't put yourself in a box and believe in the
50:09
impossible, you know, and try and you're smarter than you think and
50:12
you're more capable than you think. And, and so that's my goal is to attain that,
50:16
which I'll hopefully get this year. I've also become a certified massage therapist to help
50:22
support myself in that transition and to cushion when I switch from professional
50:26
athlete here in Canada to the States, I'll be switching income sources as well.
50:31
So that'll help with the transition of that.
50:34
And yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at right now.
50:40
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: This has been a very, very motivational interview.
50:45
And I think that I think that our listeners will take away from this interview is that
50:50
one. Believe in yourself.
50:53
Two. Don't give up very easily.
50:56
Keep yourself. You can do it and you will do it.
51:01
And I think for me, like I said, I will be contacting you offline to talk
51:07
about my own initiative.
51:08
I think it would be a marvelous, just marvelous motivational speaker.
51:14
Priscilla Gagne: Oh, thank you so much.
51:15
I would love to be a part
51:16
of it. Yeah.
51:18
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So it was a privilege and a pleasure.
51:21
And I learned a lot today about, you know, judo and wrestling and goalball.
51:27
Most of all, I learned that I'm not the only one who goes through the same thing or
51:32
similar thing. You got to conquer your nerve.
51:35
You got to believe in yourself.
51:38
Don't wait for anyone to give it to you.
51:40
Don't want to give it to you like that.
51:42
You have to show them that you can do something and then they will believe.
51:47
And after you believe in them,
51:49
they want to believe. Yeah.
51:52
Priscilla Gagne: Yeah, exactly. If you don't believe in yourself,
51:54
why would someone else come and try to, to help you with the goal that you don't even
51:58
believe in, you know?
51:59
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Absolutely. Thank you very, very, very
52:03
much. I've enjoyed.
52:04
Priscilla Gagne: Thank you.
52:06
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And we will be in touch with you in the coming weeks.
52:09
Priscilla Gagne: I can't wait.
52:11
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Good luck to you and I look forward to working with you.
52:15
Priscilla Gagne: Thank you. I look forward to hearing from you and working with you too. Have a great day.
52:20
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You too. Take care now.
52:22
Priscilla Gagne: Take care bud.
52:23
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye bye.
52:28
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donna@gmail.com.
52:34
Until next time.