Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 466: The Screenwriting Software Changing How Writers Work with Guy Goldstein

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BPS 466: The Screenwriting Software Changing How Writers Work with Guy Goldstein · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four sixty six.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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  Speaker 4: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 2: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: My next guest is a very busy guy who graciously
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: came down to talk to me because I know he's
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: got ten million things going on, and one of the
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: things that we're going to talk about is writer Duet,
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: which is his program. My next guest is a screenwriter
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: and again a software developer with guests Guy Goldstein. So
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: it's my pleasure, Guy, and I you know, I I've
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: actually used Writer's Duet. I actually use it right now
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: as my primary screenwriting software. I've pretty much gotten rid
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: of everything else, and I'm just you know, now, I'm
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: full fledging into right right right here too wet. Sorry,
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: I almost I almost misspoke there, but I'm full fledged
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: into writer Duet, and honestly, it is the the best
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: screenwrinning software ever used. Uh, And honestly, it's it's actually
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: the one thing. The guy that actually held me back
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: from actually trying it and going, I admit this was
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: the cloud, the idea of the cloud. I I'm one
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: of those guys because I actually I know you're an
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: IT guy too, and I work in it as a
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: day job, and I'm one of those guys that likes
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: to have stuff on like a flash drive, you know.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: And what happens is, whenever I hear stuff like the cloud,
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: I'm always like, well, what if I'm at a coffee
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: shop and I can't get my script? You know what
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: I mean. Oh and so, but like when I started
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: using your you know, the whole program, I sort of
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: real like, oh wait, there's an actual there's an actual
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: like software that could download and that actually solves the problem.
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's really important to me because obviously, when
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: you want to write, it doesn't matter where you are.
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: You have the idea and you need to get it out.
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: So offline mode was a really important feature, and having
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: desk up application, it seamlessly works online and offline, so
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: if you write without an Internet connection, you don't have
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: to worry about it. As soon as you connect again
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: to the Internet, you're going to automatically get that all
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: your changes, they are going to go up to the cloud.
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: If you have a collaborator, or if you just wrote
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: on a different computer or a different mobile device or whatever,
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: all your change will automatically sink as soon as they
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: reconnect to the Internet.
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: And that's what really sold me on on the program.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: And so guy, just so to get started, I want
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: to ask you know what brought you to create Writer dat.
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: Well, originally the backstories. I was a programmer for many
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: years at an actor since I was about five years old.
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: I've been sort of improv and writing for many years.
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: And the first product I made for writers was actually
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: not Writer do It. It was a spreading called reap Through,
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: and let's just say it's largely a failure, but it
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: was a cool idea and still is. We actually have
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: as a plug in its cydebrit or do it right now.
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: What it allows you to do is have voice actors
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: or fullcast of computer voices perform your script online. So
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: instead of struggling to get twenty actors in a room
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: to a read through, which I had done a number
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: of times for my own writing. I allowed you just
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: to have computer voices if you're just listening to yourself
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: in your car, just to like hear the script instead
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: of seeing a paper for one hundred times, and then
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: have actual actors performance, see if you know it connects
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: the way you expected to or hoping it would, or
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: sometimes get better than you thought it would. And then
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: that was the original reason I got into software for writers,
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: literally because I wanted that product. I was using the
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: computer voices when I would drive. I used to live
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: in Santa Barbara. I would drive to LA just like
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: a half two hours away, as I could listen to
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: my script, make all my noise on a voice recorder.
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: When I got home, I would apply all those notes
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: and then with the full cast when I got to
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: like really hear actors. And so it was all about myself.
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: Everything's about me, almost theme in my life. So writer
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: really came from. Admittedly it wasn't the store I always
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: wish it were, which is at a co writer. It's
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: not true. I did not have a co writer. No
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: one would put up with me that long. But I
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: was really interested in screenering software. I'd use Celtics when
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: I started that I started using file draft, and as
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: someone who is making software for a living, there were
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: things that I didn't like about either one. But the
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: number one thing that was so obviously missing was the
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: real time collaboration, and that was the entire impetus for this.
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: It was just knowing that if you did have a
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: co writer, and so many people do, especially in the
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: professional ranks. You'll notice I'm not saying exact numbers, I
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: don't remember it, but a very high percentage of feature
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: films in Hollywood have co writers. And when you're in TV,
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: virtually every writer's room, this is a number of writers
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: damn necessary write all the scripts together, but they brainstorm,
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: they collaborate on the outlines and on the structure, and
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: then when they're doing the punch up rounds, you often
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: have everyone throwing out jokes or having ideas and the
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: script collaboratively. So really, isn't that was the big missing hole.
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: That's where I started with. And then once we had
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: the collaboration, a lot of people were switching to writer
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: who are using it as an ANON on top of
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: a final draft of Celtics, which we are fully capatible with,
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: where you could import their scripts and export them as well,
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: but we didn't have all the features that you needed
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: to make your only writing solution. So that was the
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: sort of iterative process of getting like feedback from real
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: writers who wanted it to be there on the right sources.
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: It was so much more convenient. But either had features
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: that were in Final Draft and they liked and that
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: was fine, that made those or no one was doing
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: but they just seemed like really good ideas, like the
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: infinite revision history. So that doesn't, you know, come from
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: anything other than a writer. So to say, hey, it
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: wouldn't be cool if I could see all my past
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: versions of lines, and I realized we could do that
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: super easily, or I could go back in time to
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: a previous version of the script, and so I took
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: notes like that, ideas like that, We're like, yeah, yeah,
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: we can do that. And so you could probably count
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: ninety percent of the features in writer Do. It came
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: from just launching your products super early, getting all that
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: feedback from real writers, and implementing all their ideas as
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: efficiently as so good.
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: You know, I've actually used Celtics, I used Final Draft.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Do you remember Sophocles? Have you ever tried that software?
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: So the funny thing I had not try because I
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: don't think I can find it. I don't know if
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: it's possible to find right now. But I actually maybe
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: I'm pretty correct on that one. But I had a
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: number of people say, oh, I remember this Turtle calesoftably
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: then apparently had a pretty good cult following. Field really
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: liked it. So I don't know the backstory exactly. I
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: think there was the one guy kind of like me
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: at the time now where my company is staying a
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: little bigger, but one guy who had made that, probably
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: a similar person who was liked software for himself and
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: for other writers.
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. And what happened was he he just basically
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: sold the company to I think Final Draft, and they
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: basically really about the company above the company, and then
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: just shuttered it. And basically, I actually when he I
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: think when he sold it, he actually uploaded the code
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: or something right to site or something like that, and
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: somebody or just basically I think he just didn't make
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: a big stink out of somebody uploaded a pirated copy
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: now because he doesn't own it anymore and they're closing
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: it down anyway. So I remember a friend of mine
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: got gave it to me on a on again. Here
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: we go, give a flash drives. You have to do
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: it in a flash drive, and he goes, here, just
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: use this, and I use that for years, and then
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: I found and then I used like I kind of
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: like weaned in the Celtics and then final drafts and
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: then uh, I did like I've tried like fade in
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: and and and also uh what is that scrivener? And
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: now I know I'm into what they diet.
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a lot of people.
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: And it's funny because we always as writers should not
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: be worried about the software we're using, like it's actually stupid,
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: just obsess over it when the words on the script
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: come out the same either way, Like that's a truth.
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: I am a first new meek software and still believes
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: you should not obsess over it. But I believe you
• 8:49
  Speaker 5: should use the best tools for what you're doing every day,
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: hopefully or a large percent of your days. And I
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: feel like people organically just try different things because they
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: just can curious what's out there, and in the end,
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: it doesn't really make a difference to your writing, to
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: the results of your writing, but it makes a difference
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: to your process, Like it makes it easier to put
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: words on paper and if we do anything, for example,
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: if you're collaborating, you don't have to wait for an
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: email from your co writer, or if you're going you
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: want to see, man, this really funny line and Rider
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: it has a feature where you can actually search back
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: in time and find any version of your script with
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: a line that maybe was removed or whatever at some point,
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: and you're like, d you know, I just can't remember
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: what draft that's in. I want to look at our
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: backups with write or find it. Little features like that
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: are the things that I think people not sho obsess over,
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: but should look for because it's going to actually make
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: their writing life better. So I kint of t side
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: to where I'm like, yes, you should not have religious
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: wars over what software you use. Whatever makes you happy
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: is cool, but you should find something that actually makes
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: your writing more effective.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I concur because I know you know, you and
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: I both work in it.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: And really that kind of gives us a different sort
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: of view of software and using it. But you know, again,
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: it should be all about the writing. I agree one
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: hundred and ten percent. And I think that that's what
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: sort of stops a lot of people because they sort
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: of they want to obsess. I mean, for instance, guy,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: I had a friend of mine who actually used Microsoft
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: Word to write a screenplay, and I actually said, are
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: you just a glutton for pashment? Like I said, how
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: would you even format that? And he actually had a method,
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: and the method was he would know no indentse for
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: for exposition, slash action, two indents for I think it
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: was characters. No, I'm sorry, it was like three indents
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: for like dialogue and four indents for I mean, my god,
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: I was like, how could you possibly do this without
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: like just like throwing your laptop out the window. But
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: you know, and that's why I like the screenwrinning software
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: that we've seen now, because again with red Duett, you
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: could actually you know, you don't have to worry about
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: for many it correctly, you know what I mean, All
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: that is done for you.
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's like the goal of any I mean
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: software in general, in my opinion is whatever you're trying
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: to do, you should not realize you're even using software,
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: is my goal, Like it just happens, like you just
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: start hitting keys and the right thing just happens as
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: much as possible, Like no one goes to a software
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: not Noah, but very few people go thinking, man, do
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: I want to spend two days learning this? Like you
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: just want to start using and start writing. And so
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: I think, with what we do and what we try
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: to accomplish, it is making it as seamless as possible
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: for a person who's never even written a screenplay before.
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: Like one of the early decisions we made, one of
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: the first ones was almost I think everyone slash almost
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: everyone in the other products have a dropdown menu where
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: you select character or dialogue or whatever, and of course
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: you have tab a, enter, etc. Shortcuts, But the dropdown menu,
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: first of all, it's a community to click twice doesn't
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: really tell you any information about what a slug line
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: is or a character why you'd use one. So one
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: of the first decisions you made is happening is big
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: buttons for each one on the top of the script,
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: and if you mouse over them, it actually explains here's
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: when you would use this and here's what it is.
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: And it doesn't get in your way. It's not like
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: we're wasting space because the buttons, you know, line up
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: really nicely and it doesn't kill you. But little things
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: like that, just trying to make it so way a
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: new writer can jump in or an old writer can
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: you know, more effectively figure out what they're trying to accomplish.
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: It's a big part of it, just to make it
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: easy so you're not spending time worrying about the software.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's where you're basically like, Okay, look see
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: the interface, and you're like, look, let's just get down
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: to writing now, and we can sort of, you know,
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: unconsciously do this, you know, because that way you're just
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: sort of flowing into the story. And that's something too.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: I want to ask you guys, when you're coding and
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: you're you know, obviously you're you're you're a programmer. Did
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: did you find that when you're coding and you're you're
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: building something like writer or duet, is it similar to
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: how you write a screenplay at the same time, So
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: basically when you because I know you've written screenplays as well,
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: so when you're sort of writing screenplays and then also
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: you're coding, do you notice if there's any sort of
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: parallel to the.
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: Two, I need a huge amount. I don't know if
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: this is true universally, but I see a lot of engineers, programmers,
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: people are pretty technical who are interested in screenwriting, maybe
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: more so than they'd be interested in other creative writing things,
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: because there's a lot of technical stuff that goes into
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: a screenplay, and not just technical in sense of production,
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: like technical in the sense of story structure that doesn't
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: have to be there, but tends to exist. And so
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: as someone who with code, you know you have a
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: very very big vision that has to be broken apart
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: to tractable pieces, and each those tractoral pieces has to
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: accomplish its role. And then you say, well, how effective
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: they can do that? Well can you make bet in
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: this thing? And that's how I look at the scripts,
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: like what is my big vision? What am I trying
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: to accomplish? Okay, well, I'm trying to tell a story
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: about something important to me, whatever that is. How do
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: I want to reflect that? And then you kind of
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: break it into well one of the individual components. How
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: do the components lead up to it? Like what's our scenes?
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: And how does each scene contribute to the act or
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: whatever the sequence? How does it affect other characters who
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: are engaged in the story and each storyline Like if
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: you're a technical like each scene could be considered a function, right,
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: and each storyline is there. These characters are variable that
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: kind of goes through different functions. I don't know, it
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: is not analogous exactly, but I do take that same
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: idea of really high level structure for a final accomplished
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: broke into really small pieces and one I think it's
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: made me like an effective programmer and the less effective
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: writer is. I like seeing little tiny things like I like, wy,
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: I'll just gonna make this one simple thing. I'll make
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: this on that connects here. I like the connections between
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: two things. So even when I'm coding, I have this like, oh, man,
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: if I make this feature, that means we can do
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: this other thing over here, and I get really excited
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: and like what if we did this? And it's the
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: same with a screenplay where wholl if this character picks
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: up a knife in this scene that's foreshadow to this
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: other moment where they're going to pick up a gun,
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: You're like out of whatever it is. And those connections
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: are I think what makes uh. Sometimes even they don't
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: guess they get noticed by the casual viewer of a
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: movie or a person looking at the product. Well, that's
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: what makes really things exciting when they connect perfectly, everything
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: lines up the way you would have realized that you're
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: doing just one little part of that.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I've actually looked at it into coding,
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: and you know when i've i've i know, a little
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: bit of HTML and stuff like that, but just very
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: a little bit. And when I started getting into it,
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: I kind of noticed there would be a parallel. The
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: reason being, you know, it's you have to actually you know,
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: there's breaks in the line, there's all sorts of stuff.
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: And again, I'm nowhere near as good as you in programming,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: but I kind of I could see some kind of parallel.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: And then when I saw writer's duet, I water a duet.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, and you know, it's kind of just wanted
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: to make sure I asked that parallel question because I
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: imagine there will be at some point, because I mean,
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: you're obviously, you know, you're writing code, you're taking away
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: you know, you're you're almost like creating a scratch pad,
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: you're you know what I mean, and then you're trying
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: to sort of you know, even when you go into
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: stuff like GitHub. You know, a friend of mine who
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: works for Apples was telling me, Hey, go in to GitHub.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: You'll see sample code. You could actually see how guys
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: did all this stuff, and you could actually take it
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: and try to make your own stuff with it. Still,
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: you know, it's still interesting stuff like that, And you
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: know that's why again I want to have it on
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: the show, because I think it's pretty interesting to talk about.
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the inspiration of most code is in some ways
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: other coud. Right, You have an idea, you see something
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: in one product and you think, wow, that'd be really
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: cool if I apply like I hear even and it's funny.
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: But I spend all my time in a programming text editor,
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: and there are features I've implemented or we've implemented Ian
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: Wright or do At that either came from a text
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: editor's playing with that I thought was cool or personally.
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: I'll give you an example. I constantly have like something
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: I'm editing in code, and then I have to jump
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: somewhere else to see how it works. I can remember
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: how they connect or whatever, and there's a feature week
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: doesn't it Either it doesn't exist, or I just keep
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: stupid to find it in my text editor that I
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: want to implementing in Writer Duet for writers because I
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: needed it so much, which was a pin drop, which
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: is literally you drop a can in a location. He
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: coul drop as many as you want, and then that
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: can read somewhere else and jump back to the previous
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: location without what I actually do my text edge, I
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: hit a key and I delete it so I can
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: press undo and jump back there. But it's pay in
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: the neck. So with fins, it's literally a feature that
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: I just wanted myself for coding to make it easy
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: to find. You know, maybe I have three or four
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: locations that are all really related, so I dropped pins
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: and you just wanted them to jump through them so
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: I don't have to constantly find where I was.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: So what were one of the what was one of
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: the toughest things to implement in the writer Duet from
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: from from you know, having it out there and from
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: screenwriters obviously asking you asking questions, uh, you know, maybe
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: asking for certain features. So what was there any that
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: come to mind which were the toughest to implement.
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, one that we did relatively recently, and I can't
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: say it wasn't worth it, but oh my god, what
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: a freaking disaster. The time was. We spent three months
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: on what I think is actually not the most important
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: thing we've done, which is really cool. It's hard to
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: say it was worth three months, but you can in writer,
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: do you. We had have parallel columns, and we already
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: had done dual dialogue where you could have multiple characters
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: talking at once. We hadn't done this fully expressive multili
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: column layout where you get page breaks in the middle.
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: They got parallel pages didn't really matter, and so you
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: can write parallel scenes for virtual reality you could have
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: different directions where you literally had two scenes going on
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: at once, so if your camera's looking one way, your
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: characters looking one way see one thing different another. And
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: it's also good for documentaries, where you do it's called
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: the audio visual layout, where you're at the audio on
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: one side and the visual on the other, and that
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: way for like voiceovers and things like that. You can
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: mind it up correctly because this, you know, single, you know,
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: non parallel. You'd have to write while video is going
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: on and voiceover whatever it is. So the parallel stuff
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: was actually super complicated. It was one of those things
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: that in my head was like, ah man, it's gonna
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: take like a month, and I thought that was bad,
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: and it was. It was brutal. But yeah, there have
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: been a few things. I think the things that we've
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: actually done that have been maybe the most successful and
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: impactful haven't been that hard. Actually, they've been things that
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: made sense and you can kind of think about how
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: they'd fit. And it was as a programmer, and the
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: same thing for a screenwriter, I think is you have
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: to find things that fit into the vision pretty well.
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: Where if you're trying to accomplish something and I'm not
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: I'm guilty of the opposite of this, or the bad
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: version where you get distracted and you think, oh man,
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: this would be so cool if we had this one
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: little thing, or we could do this feature and and
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: maybe it doesn't serve the product or the screenplay even
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: though it's a cool idea and you have to kill
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: your darlings. You have to not necessarily delete features, although
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: sometimes you do, but you have to make decisions that
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: serve the bigger vision.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: Instead of necessarily being the coolest thing you could do
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: that moment or the best idea, because in the end,
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: you could do anything in your screenplay. You could make
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: the absolute every detail exactly the way you wanted it,
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: every joke, every whatever. But how how many years are
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: you going to spend on that screenplay? Will you ever
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: release it to anybody? Will you ever actually make it?
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: If that's your goal, which hopefully is for a lot
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: of people, so I think you have to kind of,
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: you know, say this, won't try to accomplish this is
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: how I'm going to get there. These are the things
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: that fit with that vision. And mostly that doesn't turn
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: out to be too hard because it all kind of
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: works together to make what you want, so that there
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: be ten different things that don't wish it.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: And you know, as we talk also about all the
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: features and stuff like that, I know, you know, writer
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: or do what Three point oh is actually launching tomorrow,
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: which is June the first, but when this comes out
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: will be a few days after. But June the first
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: three point oh is comeing out, so you know, I
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: know that a ton of new features coming out for it.
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: The biggest one is the mobile app, which I am huge, huge,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: huge about uh And I know a lot of people
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: go how can you write the screenplay on a phone?
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: And I say, well when when? When most phones now
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: on the size of iPads. You know, it's kind of easy.
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, it's actually really interesting. It's just to clarify,
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: we're coming out, you know, let's call it the public beta.
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: We've been in private beta. We're kind of letting people
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: join in tomorrow and thereafter. Well we'll see how long
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: that phase goes. Before we got to roll out every
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: single person. But I'll to answer your question, like about
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: what it is to mobile, I don't think it's a
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: ideal writing platform for many people, although I should take
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: it back because mobile doesn't mean just phones, it means iPads,
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: it means android tablets, et cetera. So having a mobile
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: on your on your iPad actually works pretty well. A
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: lot of pill we're talking they were easing to do
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: it on their iPad. We're just making a better experience
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: as an app. But for me personally, I don't think
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: I would write an entire stream play, but I think
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: we've maybe talking about earlier or whatever. But when you
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: have inspiration, you want to put it down somewhere, and
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: if you can just have your screenwrine program with you
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: no matter where you are, and always dying to have ideas,
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: making notes, reading scripts on your phone in just an
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: easier way. That's I think the ideal use case. If
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: you want to sit down there and write to our
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: page script in twenty page script or whatever on your phone,
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: God bless, but I wouldn't do that. Probably.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I find it's good though, if you ever have
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: to actually just like if you're writing on your laptop,
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: for instance, and you have to go out somewhere and
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: you know you're in line somewhere and you're like, oh
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: crap that idea, you know, and you can actually just
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: pop open your screenplay maybe write a line or two.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: The reason I like that better than doing opening something
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: like let's say, ever note is because again, everything's in
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: one place now, yeah, and I don't have I'm.
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: Sorry, Isaia. Yeah, everything' SYNCD up in real time, so
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: you don't have to worry about did you transport that
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: scene in? Did you need some work or whatever?
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because then when I get home, I have to
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: you know, open up every note, make sure I find that,
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: put it back in there, and now go okay, now
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: we're back to where we were with That's why I
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: like the idea of everything in once one place. That way,
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: I'm not constantly bouncing around to different apps and stuff
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: like that. So, and I know you were talking about
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: it's going into public beta, So can you talk about
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: like some of the other features that are going to
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: be either seen, invited du at three.
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I know. So there are a bunch, but at
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: the high level, like the big things. One of the
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: coolest ones I think is that we'venplentted what we're calling
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: drafts or branch drafts. Uh. And so the branches allow
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: you to first of all, you can already export an
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: old version of right to do it anytime you go
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: back to like three days ago at four fifteen pm.
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: You can just find any version ever. But with branches,
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: you can go back in time and you can actually
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: keep writing from that in the same script. So without
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: like necessarily opening a whole new document having two versions
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: of your script, you have two branches within your script.
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: And so what this lets you do is first of all,
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: easily jump to any point just see what it looks like,
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: but also have two ideas and you can say, hey,
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: well you know what I went out to straining for
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: the last week. It didn't necessarily work there I wanted to.
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: I'm going to write some other stuff and then maybe
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: you wind up merging it together. You can have merged
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: branches if you need to, or you can have a
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: different version that you share your scripts already, say which
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: one do you like better, without having these two manual
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: documents that you have to deal with. You know these branches,
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: and what we're doing this is that's a the current
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: rendition in WD three, but the system is going to
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: actually allow you to do much more in this. So
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: we're going to allow you to do a for example,
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: what we're calling ghosts about where you can, for example,
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: you have a co writer and you have an idea
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: that isn't necessarily ready for your co writer to see,
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: but you don't want to be writing another script because
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: you want to see what they're doing. All their stuff
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: is let's go say it ready for live, but your
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: stuff is more private at the time, So you can
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: go into ghost mook where you're getting all their updates
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: but they're not seeing what you're doing in this branch,
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: and then you can toggle back to the main branch
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: and right from there and they see it. And then
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: you can taggle back to your ghost branch. And this
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: is actually a very common Like I said before, we
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: actually ideas from the world of technology and programming. So
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: this is basically how GitHub common repository for programmers works,
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: where you can have multiple versions of your code. And
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: I'm working at a branch that is potentially buggy right now,
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: but I'm going to make sure it works by the
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: time i merge it with the main branch, and so
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: along Peo. That in the screenplay I think is really
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: interesting even for yourself. So you can have a producer's
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: draft that you turn in, and then you can kind
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: of go off and write in a different direction, and
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: then your producer gives you notes and you're like, shoot
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: out and FIUs this whole other storyline. Well, I'll fix
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: their notes now. But you don't have to have now
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: two different copies of the script that all automatically can
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: merge anytime you want. So that's probably one of the
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: bigger things. And you also have new stuff from notifications
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: inside the website and app itself. We have let's see
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: some other quot Oh, yeah, we have a tiger. We're
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: actually watching our own tiger finally, which is a pretty
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: heavily requested feature, and Tiger is going to do two things.
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: So if you're familiar with the filegrapt Tiger, it allows
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: you to tag props, characters, et cetera. So you could
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: do call sheets and you can set up for scheduling,
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: et cetera. But what we're doing is that and we're
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: letting you tag based on plot points. So you have
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: a story, v story, et cetera. Tag those, and then
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: you can filter just one set of tegts, so you
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: can say, hey, just show me the A story and
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: everything else in your script that does not match that
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: tag is hidden, and you're just seeing one storyline and
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: you edit it. It's going into the main document, but
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: you're seeing one view. And when I said before about
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: like you have to make sure things fit together in
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: a vision. Where our vision is for screenwriting is actually
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: really the branches and the tags. I think those kind
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: of tie really well together. Where you can have any
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: number of versions of your scripts. You can go off
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: in any number of directions, and you can reduce any
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: single direction to the part you're looking for, the part
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: that you're interested in. So if you just want to
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: see one character's dialogue, you can pull up that one
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: characters just want to see the scenes of characters in
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: or the lines that have some prop and or whatever.
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: You can find whatever you're looking for and simplify your
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: script to just those pieces. You don't have to see
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: hundred and twenty pages all the time. You can look
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: at three pages that are just the parts relevant to you.
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: And see stuff like that is really really cool. I
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: also like that ghost mode, yeah, because you know, and
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: the whole idea of collaboration too. I also like the
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: idea of even if you don't have a co writer,
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: if I have to show it to somebody anyway, rather
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: than email, I can just post it on there, send
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: them a link and you know what I mean, and
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: I don't have to worry about here's the script and
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And then you know they're
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: gonna go, oh, I don't have Adobe Reader or whatever.
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean.
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: It's stuff like that. Is is also I've noticed that
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: over the years, like little things like that, but they
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: add up. You know, it's not just one little thing, right,
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: it's ten thousand little things said that add up to
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: this huge amount of time. So and then again, obviously
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: when you're using all these different features and then when
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: you actually really are really really getting into it, I mean,
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: that's when you know you can actually again were it
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: just you can subconsciously start doing a lot of this stuff.
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and then the reader is a good one. In general,
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: we haven't done exactly the version I want for this,
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: but we have a read on only mode which allows,
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: you know, mean to invite you to my script and
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: you can't edit it, but you can add notes. And
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: while that's convenient versus the PDP is the notes can
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: be done in line where they actually are relevant. So
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: you can go through like like wholl I have no
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: idea what's going on? Or why did she say this?
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: Or Wow, this is really flying or whatever you want
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: to give and so you can put that directing in
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: the script and then if I have several people reading it,
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: I can see all the notes in one place. We
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: have another future version of this plan where we're going
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: to make it like right now, I think it's not
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: really meant for if I'm going to send it out
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: to a thousand people and just like get all their feedbacks.
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: Not really built for that. It's more meant for a
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: producer or a few important people to the script. We
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: want to eventually is that version where it essentially replaces
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: a PDF where I send out my script to any
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: number of people. They can all come into the script,
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: they can all read it. They can't necessarily see each
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: other who else is there? They can, they can see
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: each other people, each other's comments. They just make their
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: own you see the collection of everything. But it's kind
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: of a cheap way to share your script with getting
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: a logical s feedback collected into one place. That's that's
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: the vision on that teacher.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: So so, guy, has there ever been anybody that that
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: you've that you've heard about who've used writer to what?
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: Who's just you've heard about who's just been you've been
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: blown away by like any like uh any like famous
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: people or anything like that. We'll be like, oh my god,
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: they're using you know, my program? Who would have thought?
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: Right? Yeah, it happens all the time, And it's it's
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: interesting exactly what you said it because I have no
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: reason to know. I don't you know, look at who's
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: using that. Probably mostly sometimes I find out because the
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: email me or whatever, I'm like that name sounds familiar.
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: The ticking go like wait a second, uh So we've
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: had that number of times usually, and I says, not
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: insulting everybody else. I could tell when they're a professional,
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: just based on the questions they ask, like what they're
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: writing to me about. I'm like, okay, you know.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: You clearly are doing something real and that look, I'm like,
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: you're like, sure, Runner. We just found out recently. I
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: was on a scum in conference at Pittsburgh on a
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: panel with the creator of Downward Dog, which is a
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: new ABC show, and just coincidenced that we were happy
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: to be there. I guess together and I mentioned Provider
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: do it. It's like, oh yeah, we used write to
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: do it. And I'm like, oh cool. I you know,
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: would never have found that out except the output to
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: be there. And so that's some pretty big show. TV
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: shows have used us. The next Spider Man movie coming
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: out for Man Upcoming was written on our actually really
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: excited about whether premature movies have come out, But the
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: truth is I don't even know. Like, for all I know,
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: there are dozens or hundreds of TV shows and movies
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: that are just using it. Like we found out then
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: other TV show recently had care of the name even
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: that we were talking to We were trying to convince
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: them to use that. We thought, we found out they
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: were already using them, like okay, what's the shared conversation.
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: So so it comes off a lot and hopefully there's
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: a tipping point where we're no longer We're still gonna
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: be excited that they're using it, but we're not gonna
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: be surprised. We're gonna be like, yeah, of course you
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: use it. It's just like final draft really is the
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: industry standard at this time, Like most TV shows, most
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: feature films are written not at uh we you know,
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: we don't think that's gonna be the case at some
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: point hopefully in the for the near future.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and you're one of a good point too.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: You know, the New Spider movie is using read duet.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: So you know, one of the old arguments was, well, hey,
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: you have to use the industry standard, which because reason
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: is is because everybody can have a different page five
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: or a different page twenty, and also because this is
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: what everyone uses to sort of break down the script.
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: You know, uh, this is what the the the prop
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: department has to go to the script and find out
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: what props, you know what I mean, and they have
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: to break everything down. You have to break a schedule
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: out of this script. And as you know, as this happens.
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: So when when someone something like this New Spider Man
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: movies using where duet, you know, are you ever planning
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: on actually just sort of making it? Also, I know
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: this isn't about screenwriting, but making like a sort of
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: it almost like a feature that would help you with
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: like you know, making like day out of days and
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: stuff like that.
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: So the easy answer is no, And there's a good
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: reason for this. Number one is, uh, we don't really
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't use scheduling stuff because I'm
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: not a good enough writer that I've been produced. But
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: I don't feel qualified to make that software. Uh so,
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: And I actually feel like other people have done a
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: reasonable job. I know some people who are making products
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: like that now new versions. You actually learned about one
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: today that i'd heard of before that's doing it apparently
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: doing a reasonable job on the cloud. So I'm not
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: convinced that there's a need for us to do that.
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: And we don't want to create redundant software just because
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: us doing it. If we can actually make something better
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: we're going to make it better if we can take
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: a process that is just really not good. And the
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: other thing is we think there's so much more, like
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: I don't know what other people see in the screenwriting world,
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: where we see so many features that could be added
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: and so much stuff that we can do in terms
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: of outlining, terms of struction, and they're not like and
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: not to be ridiculing other products, but there are some
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: competitive screen arting products that will come out with things
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: that I think are just there to have a feature
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: with a name so you can advertise it. And I
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: don't think that actually help writers necessarily. Some might, but
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: I want to create stuff that actually makes creativity more fluid,
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: more engaging, more collaborative. And that's that's the stuff we're
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: going to worry about. Like the technical stuff on the
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: scheduling budgeting side, we just did introduce a tiger so
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: now you can like tag up your script and V
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: three where you can then import it into a scheduling
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: program and go from there. But I don't know. I'm
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: not saying this is the end, but my opinion is
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: we're about as late in the production cycle we want
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: to go. We want to go earlier. We want to
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: help people in their initial creativity. Like we're just talking
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: to one of our users at this really cool production
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: tablets studio in town in Austin where we are, and
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: he was talking about how he used it to but
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: he does not use riger actually for this. He uses
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: other products to write a pitch for his our treatment
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: for his stuff before it goes to producers. And I
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: was like, well, that's really interesting, Like that's an interesting
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: problem of how how do you construct that in a
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: really efficient way Because he told me, like, you might
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: spend a week just preparing this sort of pitch material
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: that isn't necessarily going to be used ever. Again, it's
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: more just to appeal the idea. Then he's going to
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: go write the script. Like if we could help you
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: do the part that is artistically interesting I e. Or
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: e g. A S. But the character breakdowns, the plot stuff,
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: the log wins, those are helpful as a creator, But
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: the stuff that makes it look cool, like visually, that's
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: just something that anyone created or not could kind of
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: or not create, writer or not could make. What if
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: we can help you you formalize some sort of creative
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: stuff like like the character breakdowns pre writing, so yeah,
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: I think that's the vision. How do we help more
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: and then beyond that, honestly, we're going to do stuff
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: that goes beyond screenwriting. We're just interested in creative writing
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: and creativity in general, Like how can we help people
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: have their ideas and express them faster and more efficiently
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: in a more you know, it's that engaging way. You know.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: One future that I would like to pitch guy is
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: you know, and this is very and this is just
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: you know, pie in the sky taking forward. It's worth
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: is I always would like to see a more involved
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: scratch pad. And what I mean by that is is
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: a scratch pad that is almost like it can format,
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: but it also it meaning it's very flexible is what
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: it can do. And you know, it's kind of like
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: future rama. There's a funny quote in Futurama. You know,
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: there was a talk about, hey, it was great in
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: Today's Scientist invented magic. But I know it's kind of
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: I'm kind of what I'm describing is like this all encompassing,
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: uh but uh, you know, perfect thing. But but I
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: I just wanted to say more engaging scratch pad. I
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: remember using scratch pads before and uh, you know, I
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: I think it was honest to god Sophocles. But uh,
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: that's just something that that I nothing. I mean like
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: final drafts and uh and fade in and and uh yeah,
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: Scrivener and all those they haven't done that anywhere near
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: as well. And honestly, that's what the idea want to
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: pitch to you, was just a more involved scratch pad
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: where basically, you know, you you can sort of let
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: your ideas flow a little bit better, uh, because sometimes
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: you know, when you're actually in that script, you know,
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: some people have a lot of like they don't want
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: to actually write a scene out. They rather you know
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: what I mean, because it almost feels permanent in that
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: if you're doing the script. I know sometimes how you
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: know how writers sometimes think it's almost like, oh my god,
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: I can't do the leat button. So uh that that's
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: just one of the features that I would just like
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: to see. And uh, you know, honestly, if you if
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: I don't see a guy, believe me, I understand. But
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: but but that would be just be cool to see.
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: Well, have good news for you, so go right. Yeah.
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: So actually one of the other features, it's uh to me,
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: is not a huge one, but maybe it's a lot
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: of people. Hopefully it will be really more important than
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: I realize, uh is. So there are two features. What
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: is existing and that's the one or you will exist
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: in W three, which is you could actually have multiple scripts,
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: any number in fact, open in one single document. So
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: you have your main script editor, and then you have
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: these little floating windows and you can open you know,
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: probably there's a practical limitation of how many you want
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: to have opened, but you have any number, uh sitting
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: on the side. And they can be like scratch pad documents.
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: You can put whatever you want in each one of them.
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: You can have one where you put like character stuff,
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: where you put scenes that you're not sure about. You
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: can have one that you use for like just internal notes,
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: like a personal note section wherever you use them for.
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: And so you have all those scripts open in this
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: little like dragable section that you can move around, so
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: you can to your screen however you want. So that
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: is coming in version three, and that's fully it's a
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: screenplay writing. It is the same right to ads, just
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: a sort of mini version of it, and you can
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: write you know, your text or notes, or you can
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: actually write full scenes with character and dialogue, et cetera.
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: And then the other thing. And this is the one
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: that is to me like the big three point whatever,
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: three point five, you know, whatever you want to call.
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: It's not quite big up for four, let's say, but
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: is a total revamp of how people do outlining and
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: scratch pat just like maybe you're more thinking out than
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: the sort of mini editor one. And what that is
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: to me And this is like I got into that before.
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: It's the idea of filtering. So right now you can
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: construct these tags in cyberrit or you tag this is
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: a story, you start whatever, and you can filter out
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: just the content you want. Well, what if you applied
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: those filters and in a sort of broadway where we say, hey,
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: these are outline notes or these are scratch pad scenes
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: or whatever they are, and you could freely write those
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: right inside your script. But you knew they weren't real.
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: You knew they were just like virtual. They were tagged
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: as sort of cigurated and maybe by default you hit those,
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: or maybe by default you just saw those whatever mode
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: you were in of looking at your script, and then
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: the outliner could filter your script say hey, just show
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: me the outliner notes for ceda next on c B
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: since and these are all actual real text editors, and
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: so the idea is you can write whatever you want freely,
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: and you just use these tags to explain essentially what
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: they are ty semantic meaning to you, it's your ow thing,
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: and then you filter in or filter out the pieces
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: that you do or don't want. So I think that's
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: exactly what you know. Those two things I think kind
• 39:40
  Speaker 5: of combined to be what you're really looking for, which
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: is the freedom to just put ideas down as quickly
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: as you have them without the feeling of now they're permitted,
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: and even the opposite another future where we out really
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: soon is so when you're writing the scripts, you delete something.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our response
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: And that actually feels really permanent as well. That's not
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: before I do it get the infery vision history. You
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: can always go back, youep and say, oh man, there's
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: a great line with tacos and search for tacos and
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: you find that line that's that's been deleted, but it
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: still feels permanent. And so what we're gonna do is
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: have a feature where like just then you know within
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: a key strike whatever. The key strike you come up
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: with is delete and safe to like repository or whatever,
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: and we'll just have that little document that's you know,
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: maybe this will maybe not, but just hiding on the
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: side that's keeping track of all this content that you
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: were deleting. But then you don't have to worry about
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: it being gone. You have this other second script being
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: created as you go with all your just ideas that
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: we're working. So I think that's what you what you're
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: leading to. I think is what we're going for as well.
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because that is what I was going for. Because
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: when you're writing and you're you're you're doing all this
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: sort of thing, you're you're writing all these scenes out
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: and you're writing ideas, and you're doing this, and you're
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: kind of sometimes you're coming back and forth. You kind
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: of don't want to put a scene in there that
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: might not fit later on, because then you're like, later
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: on you're like, oh, what the hell was this thing?
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: And then it's kind of you know, it's stuck in there,
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: and if you again, it feels permanent. So I think
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: with a with a more of like a flexible scratch pan,
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: that's what I was going for, but with see guy,
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: you read my mind, you know exactly what I was
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: going to ask for.
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean this is the short version is there
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: are two things we've learned. One is being a writer ourselves,
• 41:30
  Speaker 5: Like we're all that the team is a five full time,
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: two part time now at plus two dogs so they
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: get tired of lifting. So we're all like writers and
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: filmmakers are programming team as all ed your creative alriating
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: a film. So because of that we understand, like, you know,
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: not necessarily before you have the idea, but as soon
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: as you said it, I'm like, I know why you
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: want that, and I don't just know the technical implementation.
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: I kind of understand how you use it. I can
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: think of being, oh, well, what if you do this
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: other thing? Or I can take suggestions because we're also
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: super interested in listening to you to users, and because
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: of that, like not to say, you know, it's not
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: brially when anyone comes up with it, but we just
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: sort of wait sometimes when we hear one person suggests
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: the feature, were like a good idea, and then we
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: just try to wait, and then you know there's another
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: other person's just the same thing, Like Okay, that's interesting.
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: And just because in the beginning I would just do
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: everything because we had prelimited features. So when I started
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: four years ago, so I could do it all, it
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: was just me at the time. So it's pretty easy
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: to quickly iterate as you bigger. We don't necessarily have
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: that liberty. We have too many users to listen to
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: every single feature, but we just sort of track. Hey,
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: people keep asking for exactly what you're talking about, like
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: a scratchbad and not want there are better ways to
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: do that, and we're gonna, you know, probably have hundreds
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: more features suggested by users over the next six months
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: or so. And so it's just you know, keep coming.
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: So you got other ones, you know, anyone you and
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: everyone listening. We're here to not assay solve the creative process,
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: because I don't think that means anything, but it's we're
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: here to help people be created in a way that
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: that works for that whatever that means.
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: And you know, and then that is fantastic. And you know,
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: because guy, we've been talking for about you know, maybe
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: forty minutes roughly, you know, is there anything that we
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: didn't discuss that you may wanted to talk about? Or
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: anything you want to say to sort of put a
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: period the end this whole conversation.
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: No, I mean, ultimately, I think the thing that I
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: want people to take away is they should find where tools,
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: you know, make them more effective at what they're doing.
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: If you're writing and you're happy with your writing process,
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: I don't have a problem if you want to use
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: Celtics or anything else or found Pound Draft. I just
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: think that if you're not happy with the process, there
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: are things that annoy you. If you're like, yeah, well
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: it's fine. But now if it doesn't excite you every
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: time you open up those any product, maybe that's not
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: the right one for you. You want something that inspires
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: you to more create it. And if we don't do that,
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: then we're not the right ones either. It's just, you know,
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: we always want to feel to find that that perfect,
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: perfect tool for their use.
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and again, you know, I think writer Duett is
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: a perfect tool because again, even guys like me who
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: was afraid of the cloud, because again, if I'm at
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: somewhere and I can't download that script, but then again
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: you solved that with the app. And I want to
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: give a shout out to to Mike Berman who's actually
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: been on the podcast before. And guy, you know you
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: and I both know Mike. He runs the screenways who
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: can actually write Facebook group. He is the one who
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: actually got me into writer duet and he's he was
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: the one who said, you know what, they have an
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: app and it actually solved all those problems.
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: I gotta say no shot to Mike Helpe. He's listening
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: to a Mike And this is to all our users. Actually,
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: we do no marketing. If you want to like Google
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: shoot Dark Software. We're finally on the first page now,
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: but you'll never see an ad. I mean right now
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: you see an ad for writer do at And we
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: don't do like Facebook ads. We've tried a few, probably
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: spent a couple hundred bucks on Facebook ads to see
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: what happened, and the answer was nothing. We don't market
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: and the reason is found Draft is really good at marketing,
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: Like they've done a great job. And if if I
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: had to, like, if I could be as good as
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: they are marketing, I would adjust it. So we don't.
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: We just sort of say hey, we're making what we
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: think is the best product, and people like Mike uh
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: just really got attached to it because he was using it.
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: It helped him in some ways and he could honestly
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: recommend it and he did, and that group, I don't
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: know what the percents are, but it's pretty high percent
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: of writers in that group use writer du app because
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: Mike introduced it to them and then they really liked it.
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: And they would then in the next person who're asked, hey,
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: and how you're having a problem with the screen program
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: or I'm just curious what's out there, all the other
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: members would say, oh, yeah, I use it too, and
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: they would get excited. And you know, it's a compliment
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: to us, some self compliment, I guess, but it's really
• 45:39
  Speaker 5: a testament to me how how people in the screening
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: community are willing to not only give back to us
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: by getting their future ideas, but help each other by
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: you know, to me advertising with the best product. And
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: I you know, I guess, thank you to everyone who
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: does that. And also please continue since my personal one
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: because in the end of the day, like writers are
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: here to help out the writers. That's why you need
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: this podcast. I'm guessing it's not for all the money
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: to pay you to do it. You just here like
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: to help with creative community and that's what we're here
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: for as well.
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, honestly, guy, the whole story behind this podcast is,
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: you know, I do a lot of creative work. I
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: got stifled and right around twenty fourteen, I decided to
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: start this podcast for a lot of reasons. And I'm
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: sure all the listeners who've actually listened since episode one,
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: which there actually are people as shocked as I am,
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: they've actually they're probably saying, no, don't tell this whole
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: story again, So I'll spare everybody from telling it again.
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: But that was the idea though. The short of it
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: is it just to do something creative and something fun.
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: And each week That's why I say this is like
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: a film school, an audio film school, because each week
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: I'm bringing in a different person who has an entirely
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: different background. Screenwriters, producers, directors, actors, marketing people. I mean,
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: you name, and I've had them on the show. I mean, hell,
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: I've had Casie Ovis on here, who was the executive
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: producer Dallas Buyers. You know, I mean, it's just like,
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, he said, yes, why, I have no idea,
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: But I was like, okay, I've had Mark Banstock, who's
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: a producer for M I Shamalan stuff. I mean, it's
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: just been you know, I mean, and then I've just
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: been blown away by all the talented people like yourself
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: guy who've had on this podcast. And it is a
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: small world too, because you both know Mike Bierman, so
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: it's it. It's just such a small world and it's
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: just getting smaller.
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, writers like writers are so isolated sometimes just that
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: we don't know this from writing. You kind of get
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: in that mode and you're lonely. Don't stay in there.
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: That's my biggest recommendation. They kind of find communities, find
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: a Facebook group, plus we actually write as one. There's
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: a really good Creddit community for screenwriters where it's even
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: if you never contribute, I think just I go there
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: obsessively admittedly, and even sometimes I like, see you writer,
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: do you have questions on there? And I just kind
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: of wait and sometimes see if anyone else is going
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: to answer this before I do. I just really enjoy
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: that can unities that have been formed around such an
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: isolated activity as writing, and people who are willing to
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: get back and contribute, so hopefully everyone gets to participant
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: in as Yeah, and that is a.
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: Very good Facebook page too, and it's it's not very
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: very common to actually get a really awesome Facebook page
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: where everyone's actually helping each other out. Usually, as you know,
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: guys social media, if you have like a Facebook page,
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: it usually ends up in like some kind of flame
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: war where it's like people fighting over absolutely nothing. And
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: you know, because I mean, I've seen that tons of times,
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean, And that's why I've kind
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: of stayed away from a lot of those groups. But
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: that one group is amazing. The Scare has we've been
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: actually right, and I like that in the show notes
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: as well. But guy, it's been excellent having you on.
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: And where we will find you out online.
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: You can find us on Twitter at writer Duets I
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: think Facebook slash writer duet or whatever the URLs for
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: a group. Yeah, you'll see me around. I'm pretty I'm
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: pretty out there, so if you catch me in the
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: Reddit forum or the scare actually ray, you'll find me
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: pretty fast. So don't shower saying hi anyone out there.
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: Die Goldstein, I just want to say thank you so
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: much for.
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: Coming on you, thank you for having me. This is
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: a really blast.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Forward slash for sixty six. Thank you so much for
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: listening to guys. As always, keep on writing no matter what.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: I'll talk to you soon.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at bulletproof
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Screenwriting dot tv.