Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Aaron Wise (Trial By Fire) | Christian Reeve Podcast | #37 |

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Aaron Wise (Trial By Fire) | Christian Reeve Podcast | #37 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:01
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian we've
• 0:04
  podcast today is another special episode because I have a friend
• 0:08
  of mine, an excellent just all-around guy.
• 0:12
  He does many different things, his name's Aaron Wise and you
• 0:15
  minor. In my note, might know him.
• 0:17
  Jesus off to a great start as trial by fire.
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  He's a VFX artist a games developer, a YouTuber, twitch
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  streamer all around just content creator gaming.
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  Dude, there's a lot of things a lot.
• 0:30
  Of Pi, is he has his finger in any case, welcome to the show.
• 0:34
  Aaron, how you doing it? Good.
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  Thank you very much for the introduction and good job.
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  I got eight fingers for all these pies on India.
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  I mean, it kind of does blow my mind, like, how many, how many
• 0:45
  things you've done and that you're currently doing,
• 0:48
  obviously, we're going to go through all of those, through
• 0:49
  the course of this, but I kind of wanted to start with this
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  because I've always wanted to ask you about this.
• 0:56
  And I wanted to ask you about this when we did the tcga
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  podcast. I don't know if I was ever I
• 1:02
  didn't really ever have a plan. I think me and Jacko kind of
• 1:05
  discussed the idea of doing a podcast about you one time like
• 1:09
  actually you know some sort of like a thing.
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  Yeah and then I just kind of at some point wanted to just do a
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  general video with you and then finally after all this time
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  you're here. And again for those who might
• 1:22
  not be familiar myself trial by fire and childish Jaco used to
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  do a podcast together and Yeah, we had a little bit of a good
• 1:31
  run as fun, and yeah, we had a lot of ideas during that time.
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  And one of the things that I always kind of found fascinating
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  about you, is that you were, or are dino where the case, maybe
• 1:44
  with this, but VFX artist and I wanted to okay, I know very
• 1:50
  little about this. So I'm going to pretend to know,
• 1:52
  I'm just going to kind of hand it to you.
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  But in terms of my question, what exactly did you do in this
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  role? And what kind of projects did
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  you work? Unlike anything we'd be familiar
• 2:01
  with or what's the deal? So the company I work for milk.
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  Obviously, I don't work there anymore but they ranged in a
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  variety of different sort of mediums and you'd had radio,
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  you'd have TV, advert should have movies.
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  You'd have independent movies. And essentially, what we would
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  do is we'd all kind of B given a project and it might just be
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  some simple things. Like adding some Um, I don't
• 2:30
  lens flares or adding some smoke effects, you know?
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  Or and it went to the complete stream, like we might have to do
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  some chroma key, which is like the green screen that you'll see
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  ring on silent background and add something else.
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  Blue screen, Silver Screen, all those different sort of things
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  and it was just be kind of dependent on what the client
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  wanted my. So some of it was just generally
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  very, very simple. Some of it was either a little
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  bit more complex. I hadn't been there sort of too
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  long. I think it was just over a year.
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  I was like 15 swordfish months but obviously I'd taken what I'd
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  kind of learn just from being me, I guess and sort of apply
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  for the role. I started officer like junior
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  level and just kind of work my way up.
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  Not very far obviously, but just worked on some stuff.
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  Noticeably, I guess, the last thing that I worked on I guess
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  which was the big one and it's nothing fantastic.
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  By the way, was the latest Bond movie and it was literally just
• 3:29
  doing Doing nothing funny. Funny, just a few smoke effects
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  and some of the titles is there. The title sequence stuff at the
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  beginning, but that was it. Wow.
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  Oh, man, and this is the one that hasn't been released yet,
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  right from Rex. It's been pushed back again, so
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  that's amazing. I think that's just on a side
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  note. By the way, I just think that
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  that is unprecedented for any movie I've ever seen two.
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  Because obviously, typically in the movie industry, you always,
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  you know, film the movie, the year before and then release it
• 3:59
  the year after. So I've never genuinely never
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  seen a movie where this has been the case when it's finished
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  production and then it's released two years later, like,
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  yeah, it's a lot of money riding on this one so because of that,
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  I can see what they want. As many people in the theaters
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  as possible, when in obviously, with this whole cineworld stuff,
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  it's been on like a massive blow.
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  I kind of felt like maybe they should take the kind of Disney
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  approach where they sort of charge you a one-off fee and you
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  can watch it from your house. The thing is though obviously
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  it's a lot cheaper than going to the cinema.
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  I think it's 20 pounds but you could like, get your whole
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  family and for that and I think it's cineworld, if you want to
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  take your whole family, I know it was with me and my wife and
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  three children, it's the high end of the 50s.
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  So I mean, it's a pretty good deal, but I guess they want to
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  try and recoup as much money as possible.
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  We've spoken about the the film industry before I saw the cinema
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  industry before. I think we did possibly want ecj
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  at Point and that was ages ago. So we did that episode back in
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  what? Like April, something like that.
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  Yeah, and it's funny how, you know, the more things change,
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  the more they stay the same because obviously recently I
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  think it's either cineworld or one of the other ones, close
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  down both in the UK and the US was it's in the world or was it?
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  Well. Yeah, it was.
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  Okay. Obviously this is a big deal
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  because they had like about hundred and twenty seven
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  branches in the UK and the US, it's huge.
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  Do you think this is kind of because we like I said we
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  briefly spoke about this before about like you know where the
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  future is kind of headed for the cinema industry.
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  But do you think it's like this is kind of like signaling the
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  end or do you think it's just this one particular company that
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  can't hack it but like the others will be alright or so.
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  I think silly world of kind of like, if I remember correctly,
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  what they've done is, it's just, it's a good sort of 250 ish,
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  locations, Cartwright and USA. No.
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  But of course both countries but it's like, 40,000 employees.
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  And the reason they've done, this is before they go into
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  Administration, they called it. What did they call it?
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  Like a winter hibernation, they don't really have many new
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  releases over sort of Christmas period.
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  You always find. It's like that typical Christmas
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  movie. You know, there's never really
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  any big saw Blockbusters. So I'm kind of hoping that not
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  when this blows over, because obviously, we don't know how
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  long the pandemics going to go on for, but I feel like they've
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  done this in a way because I know that they're planning on
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  coming back. At some point.
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  The only other thing I could suggest that maybe they do as a
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  kind of business model, not that we need another one of these,
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  but their whole not really a gimmick, but their whole sort of
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  idea behind why people would be really excited to do this.
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  Because I know I certainly would was people like, cineworld
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  should probably start their own streaming service where you pay
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  a monthly subscription, but then you get access to those new
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  movies. Would you would normally go and
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  see in the cinema? Yeah, I think we can start with
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  the idea that that could be something because, you know,
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  they try to open these theaters safely, you've got to think
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  about the fact that you've got to do the 2 meter distance Rule
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  and then you've got to but then you've obviously got the or
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  horizontal and your vertical way the way it goes backwards and
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  forth. So you're probably losing more
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  than 50% of your see an area in that sort of respect so they're
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  probably not making nowhere near as enough money even if they did
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  stay open. So it's it's probably one of
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  those things they did because it was just not viable enough to
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  pay all those people. Keep the place open.
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  So I hope they come back because I do enjoy the cinema and that
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  experience, but if they, if they really wanted to sort of carry
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  on making money, then I suggest that that would be an idea to go
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  down. Yeah, I agree with you and it to
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  be honest, I've felt since the beginning of this pandemic that
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  opening Cinemas is just a bad idea.
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  I think there are certain places you cannot.
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  Been safely and others, you can't and natto explain the
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  reason, the second you have like a sporting venue, like, let's
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  say you open like a football stadium, but you run it at like
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  20 percent capacity, you can do that, you do it safely,
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  everyone's Outdoors chances of transmission are much much lower
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  plus, you can, you know, you can take advantage of all the
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  different exits and stuff. There's a way you can do it with
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  Cinemas, you know, I went to the cinema one time during this
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  pandemic, I took a risk. It was a massive risk.
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  To see tenant because obviously, as you know, I was part of that
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  movie and that's the only reason I went.
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  I was like, you know what? I got to see this movie.
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  You know, I was in it was a big deal for me, blah, blah, blah,
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  but I realized it was a risk and it, I didn't realize that quite
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  how much of a risk it was until afterwards.
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  So obviously, you know, they as you say they put all of the
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  stuff in place, you know, you have your social justice in I
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  think in this day. If there was 50 seats, there's
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  probably no more than about 20 people there.
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  Probably more soup. Basically, like only like a
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  Fourth of the capacity was full. Yeah, but here's the deal. 10 is
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  a three-hour movie and everyone has to wear the mask during the
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  whole movie, right? And obviously, if you have like
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  food and drink, you can take it off to do that.
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  But point is, it's a three-hour movie and the doctors that I've
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  spoken to about this say that your mask is effective for about
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  45 minutes, right? That's how long you've kind of
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  got in an indoor space. Before it's like not really as
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  effective anymore. Yeah.
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  You think about that logically, you know, you're in a cinema
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  it's three hours you've got recycled air because of you
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  know, the air conditioning if you're going to catch it.
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  That's like a hot spot to catch it and I remember talking to a
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  doctor about this after I'd seen the movie and I mentioned that
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  I'd gone to the cinema and he kind of looked at me in that
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  sort of like he stopped what he was doing and looked in a kind
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  of not in a horrified way. But in a kind of like, oh, fuck
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  The door. Well, you know, in a kind of
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  like that was a risk and luckily, I'm fine, I'm healthy
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  and everything. But I think that's a very
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  important point about all of this is, you know, if you're, if
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  you're in any kind of indoor area, for a sustained period of
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  time, you're far more risk than you are outside.
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  And if you bring that back to like Cinemas, again, you know,
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  for example, you can have outdoor Cinemas.
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  This is something you can do, this is something that they have
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  spoken about, they are doing But if we really want to replace it
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  and do it in a safe way, you can do stuff like that.
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  You know what I mean? I feel like it's not so much, a
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  case of just opening up things as they were before.
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  I think it's because we can't really do that.
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  I think it's more about, you know, you got to strategize and
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  think of a clever way to do this.
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  That is still going to protect people, but still allow you to
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  run your business first. So I don't know, man.
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  I just thought that was kind of interesting.
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  Yeah, but anyway, that's pretty good.
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  Let's bring it back to you Mom. So, obviously, as I mentioned,
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  you started with VFX stuff but you've always kind of been
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  dabbling in games and we'll get to obviously your YouTube and
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  all the other things that you do.
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  But the biggest part of your life right now, which is really
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  exciting is that you're involved in games, developing your games
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  developer. So, when did you actually start
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  kind of dabbling with this because Obviously met you.
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  I want to say that the tail end of last year, I can't be exact
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  time but roughly around that point and I think back that back
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  then yeah you had an interest in it but I never heard of you like
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  actively doing at that point and then I later realized that you
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  have a real talent for it's like clearly, there's got to be some
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  sort of thing where you've done this years before or you've got
• 11:47
  a towel you studied or something like that.
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  When did this start? So I think I started in around
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  March this year. Oh, okay.
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  And yeah, it's I've been doing about seven months now and no
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  background. No study, no.
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  Nothing. I am incredibly fortunate to be
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  kind of involved with people that have been doing it for
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  years. Obviously, you know, Vedas And
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  obviously there's Matt Reeves both of both been very, very
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  good with means, giving me the time and knowledge and passing
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  on out. You know things skill sets that
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  I could learn. And so obviously I started off
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  with unity which is very sort of c-sharp based like coding and
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  that's probably the only background kind of thing I had
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  in it. Like, I knew a little bit of
• 12:47
  code, to sort of kind of get me through and I was able to
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  produce my first Game which is the construct, which is like a
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  short old school based games based horror sci-fi Adventures
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  or thing, which did. All right, you know?
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  And then I kind of moved over to Unreal Engine because they use a
• 13:07
  thing called blueprint, which is where you don't have to have any
• 13:09
  coding knowledge. You literally just connect the
• 13:12
  dots to what you wanted to do. Like, so, for example, there's a
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  button on a menu. You go on, click to drag over to
• 13:19
  open level and it opens that level.
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  It's this. It's that simple.
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  She's just about making sure that all your references match
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  up and you want them to do something and they work the to
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  the other kind of side of that. Logic is the things that more
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  difficult. So like blender, which is the
• 13:36
  free d, modelling tool that I use, it's free a lot of people
• 13:40
  in the industry, use it. But that's where I make all my
• 13:44
  models for my games or, you know, you can buy assets,
• 13:47
  download assets and stuff that people have already made as long
• 13:50
  as they're free to use, You can just literally plug them into
• 13:54
  your scene and do and then you've got the animation side of
• 13:57
  thing which is obviously the hard bit because you literally
• 13:59
  have to create a skeleton for that model and then you have to
• 14:02
  pose it and modeling key frame it.
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  So think of it like stop motion animation when you would move it
• 14:07
  a frame and then you like keyframe it moving again,
• 14:11
  keyframe it until you get that kind of nice fluid moving
• 14:14
  motion. Type things that has that side
• 14:15
  of it as well, so it's incredibly complex stuff.
• 14:21
  But as As I said, thankfully to these guys they give me a ton of
• 14:27
  the time, you know, if I ever have any questions, I feel like
• 14:30
  lately. I've been a lot more solo on
• 14:32
  these things. Like, I don't really ask as much
• 14:33
  anymore, but I obviously recently had the pleasure of
• 14:38
  joining the data Studio videos games.
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  And I know working with them as well as doing a couple of solo
• 14:44
  projects such as my screen Jam game.
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  That's coming out this Friday coming in six days time.
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  Yeah so obviously a lot Unpack their, thank you.
• 14:54
  Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I mean, you've touched on
• 14:58
  a lot of points that I have written down here.
• 15:00
  Let's talk about Vie Des Dames with us games.
• 15:02
  Sorry real quick, obviously we both know Vedas and he's been a
• 15:07
  games developer for many years. Tell us more about, you know,
• 15:12
  how this came about and what your role is there.
• 15:15
  Exactly. So I guess it all kind of
• 15:18
  started last year when I was first introduced to him through
• 15:22
  Matt to sourcing match the Glam at first, and we just kind of
• 15:26
  instantly hit it off. We're both mimas.
• 15:29
  You know, we both like the same sort of taste in music.
• 15:32
  We both love horror. So obviously we instantly hit it
• 15:35
  off. And we've just been sort of
• 15:36
  talking ever since and I think it was one night earlier in,
• 15:39
  that sort of beginning of this year might have been late for.
• 15:42
  Yeah, must have been late. Late, February, mid-February
• 15:45
  where he was just like, It shot man.
• 15:47
  Just just go for it, you know? And I was like and so I
• 15:51
  downloaded blender and I thought I need if I'm going to do this,
• 15:53
  I'm going to need to learn how to do 3D modeling and I remember
• 15:57
  literally sitting up all night, like I did not sleep.
• 15:59
  I literally all night. I was in blender and I made a
• 16:01
  donut. Yeah, I said I remember that,
• 16:04
  but don't know, I don't know. Yeah, and I, you know, I gave it
• 16:09
  the layers, I gave you the texture.
• 16:12
  Are, you know, I moved all around it at the pink, pink
• 16:15
  glossy like What's it called? That's the icing, kind of stuff.
• 16:20
  And then I completely rendered it into a 3D image move the
• 16:22
  light around and stuff. And it just looked amazing.
• 16:24
  And I was like, holy shit. I love this.
• 16:27
  This is great. And then the rest is kind of
• 16:30
  History, really. And then I guess because now
• 16:33
  that I've got these two games under way and they've done
• 16:37
  generally pretty. Okay.
• 16:38
  I guess by anyone's first game. Standards.
• 16:41
  Yeah, you know, they've made triple figures in terms of like
• 16:45
  over a couple of hundred pounds. In terms of people, downloading
• 16:48
  them buying them, you know, I just kind of got that level of
• 16:52
  confidence. I've done quite well and he was
• 16:55
  just like, you want to join the team, you know, I've seen what
• 16:58
  you do and I think, you know, we'd make some great stuff
• 17:02
  together. So I was just like, Met You Had
• 17:04
  Me At Hello kind of thing, you know?
• 17:05
  So yeah, I joined was it now couple of weeks ago and we're
• 17:10
  working on a few projects, obviously, which I cannot,
• 17:13
  unfortunately, talk about. But my general role there is
• 17:17
  Modeler animator, anything you need to do in really.
• 17:21
  I'm even doing some audio stuff as well.
• 17:24
  But yeah, no, it's good. I'm glad to see what to be part
• 17:29
  of the team and I'm looking forward to seeing what we all
• 17:31
  come up with? Yeah, again, congratulations on
• 17:34
  this yards. Really made up for you.
• 17:36
  When I saw this announcement, I thought it made sense because
• 17:38
  obviously, you guys were friends anyway and not to kiss your ass,
• 17:42
  too much, but you are fantastic at this game's development
• 17:45
  stuff, like for any. For anyone that isn't aware of
• 17:48
  like, what, what, what Aaron does, make sure after this
• 17:52
  podcast, that you go and check out his stuff because it's
• 17:54
  fantastic and and they're free it blows my mind that you only
• 17:58
  started this in March. Because I mean, okay I don't I
• 18:01
  know nothing about games development but like everything
• 18:04
  that you do seems very professional at a professional
• 18:07
  level June and I mean and you know, like for instance, I
• 18:10
  remember while you were talking, I remember that time when you
• 18:13
  showed me this app thing that you had where you could scan
• 18:16
  Things in. I just thought that was so
• 18:19
  amazing. Like obviously it's probably a
• 18:21
  pretty common piece of technology we have now but you'd
• 18:24
  scanned in. I remember like a some sort of
• 18:27
  outdoor sofa or something and you put it in a game and it
• 18:30
  just, it looked fantastic. And I was I was blown away by
• 18:34
  how you could just take a real-life item, stick it in the
• 18:37
  game and and kind of like, it doesn't look out of place.
• 18:41
  It doesn't look like, you know, doesn't get kind of lost in the
• 18:44
  process of rendering or whatever.
• 18:46
  You know, it looks. Legit looks good, right?
• 18:51
  And yeah, I digress. I thought I just thought that
• 18:53
  was really good, but obviously bring that back to Vedas, you've
• 18:56
  told me a lot about, you know, because I'll be honest, the
• 18:59
  first time I heard of him either.
• 19:00
  I looked at his website and everything.
• 19:02
  My impression was our this guy is like just starting out making
• 19:05
  games. You know, I didn't really know
• 19:07
  much and then you've kind of over the course of this year,
• 19:10
  told me about like, how well is games are doing, you know who's
• 19:14
  playing them like you, for instance, If you go on Vanessa's
• 19:17
  Twitter he's got like a ton of followers now and it's all
• 19:21
  because people are playing these games, there's a buzz being
• 19:23
  created about it and yet, you know, clearly what money is
• 19:28
  being made things going well. So when you join that team, I'm
• 19:31
  like, uh-huh. Okay, this is beginnings of good
• 19:33
  stuff and this is a, you know, and like I think it's awesome as
• 19:37
  well. Yeah, that you're making your
• 19:39
  own games, obviously you mentioned that you made the
• 19:41
  construct which I played. So if you go on my main Channel
• 19:44
  there's a video of me playing that games.
• 19:46
  Like really, really simple game. As I mentioned to you in a
• 19:52
  private conversation, I felt that it was a very much like a
• 19:54
  throwback to like those old very old like Tech Space games like
• 19:58
  the 80s but also it kind of weirdly reminded me of those
• 20:01
  like, fantasy book games, which just like, yeah, it sounds sad
• 20:07
  or weird for me to anyone that was in graphical Adventure.
• 20:11
  It was genuinely, it was actually really fun.
• 20:13
  If you were a kid growing up in the 90s and you have one of
• 20:14
  those fantasy books, I mean, sometimes you can have a dice
• 20:18
  with it as well, but that was, that was a bit too over the top,
• 20:21
  I think, but you, yeah, basically, the point was based
• 20:25
  on your decisions, it would take you to different parts of the
• 20:28
  book and the story would unfold accordingly.
• 20:30
  So it's basically like a very early form of like RPG in a
• 20:34
  sense in the sense that you have like, kind of choice over the
• 20:37
  decisions and you can choose to be a good guy, bad guy,
• 20:40
  whatever. So this.
• 20:43
  Yeah, I'd love to see more stuff like that from you.
• 20:45
  I think that was really It'll also you've recently just
• 20:50
  dropped a game called Hell's Gate which is a platformer and
• 20:54
  just very cool from the get-go. It's got great music, really
• 20:57
  kind of interesting colors and stuff and obviously it's like
• 21:00
  game around hell. It's all kind of like a bit
• 21:02
  crazy and yeah, you're about to drop a game very soon if I
• 21:09
  recall correctly. Is that true?
• 21:11
  So when can we expect this game to drop a little bit more time?
• 21:15
  So it will be this. Friday.
• 21:17
  So I recently took part in a game Jam, which is where you get
• 21:21
  a very sort of type timeframe to make a game as best.
• 21:25
  You can teams can enter or you can do it solo.
• 21:29
  So I decided to put all my skills to the test because up
• 21:32
  until this point, I had had an unlimited amount of time to make
• 21:37
  something and you know get it right and this one I've had 10
• 21:40
  days so that's 10 days to do level design modeling, which
• 21:45
  I've done all of the models this time.
• 21:46
  Of Assets in this game, all of the audio, all of the animation,
• 21:51
  absolutely everything. So it's coming along very, very
• 21:55
  well. I'm probably, I would say ahead
• 21:57
  at this point because I'm kind of came to because I don't want
• 22:00
  this to be one of those things that I don't manage to get done
• 22:03
  in time, so there's no restrictions on when you can
• 22:07
  work on it from say like this time to this time, you've just
• 22:10
  got 10 days to make a game. You can stay up all ten days if
• 22:12
  you really want to. So yeah, it will be out on.
• 22:16
  On this Friday and it's called what is that?
• 22:20
  And it's my first I guess proper horror again.
• 22:23
  Right. So basically by the time his
• 22:25
  podcast comes out the game will have already been out for a
• 22:28
  while and everything but when this clip drops it will be out
• 22:31
  and be the day of it dropping. So yes.
• 22:36
  If I had a person to do clips for me, I would say clip that
• 22:38
  but it will be me clipping there.
• 22:42
  Any way to tell us a little bit about this game like what, what
• 22:45
  can people expect from this? Without obviously giving too
• 22:47
  much away. So yeah, okay.
• 22:49
  So without saying too much away you basically play a guy just an
• 22:54
  average guy who comes home late from work one night and you know
• 22:58
  is really tired. He's like I'm going to go to
• 23:00
  bed. You go to bed and you hear this
• 23:02
  noise and you wake up and you can explore your house.
• 23:06
  You can explore the street outside.
• 23:09
  You know, it's full of Ambience. There's lots of like raindrop is
• 23:13
  rain coming down, you know, there's spooky.
• 23:16
  Sounds all that sorta kinda, it's like late at night and so
• 23:20
  you're walking around and you're just trying to find out where
• 23:23
  there's noises coming from and you don't really find anything.
• 23:27
  But if you do decide to explore, all I'll say is you might find
• 23:31
  an Easter egg or two. If there's like some scary stuff
• 23:34
  that might speak to you, kind of just lingering in the background
• 23:37
  that you might not notice at first.
• 23:39
  So you just miss it, you go back to bed and you wake up and
• 23:42
  basically throughout the course of one night, you are Basically
• 23:48
  experiencing all the these like different.
• 23:51
  Well, that's a different. Your experience in this thing
• 23:54
  that's coming after you basically and it's basically
• 23:56
  killing off. People that live in your
• 23:58
  neighborhood and it gets to the point where you're next.
• 24:01
  And yeah, I'd say, I don't want to give away the ending, but
• 24:08
  it's quite interesting sort of thing.
• 24:10
  I'd say, definitely play. It's probably going to be no
• 24:12
  longer than 10 15 minutes in length, but I think I'm onto
• 24:15
  something pretty good. Excellent.
• 24:17
  Excellent. And so, yeah.
• 24:19
  What where can, where can we find this game?
• 24:20
  Where will it be released? So, it will be on my itch.io
• 24:25
  page. So let's I TC h dot IO and then
• 24:29
  obviously, you know, there's this /are and wise so you can
• 24:34
  obviously download all my games from there, they're all free,
• 24:38
  but yeah, it's very exciting. Sort of thing for me as well
• 24:43
  because I think, you know, in terms of horror this is That the
• 24:47
  reason that I got started in it because I wanted to make games
• 24:50
  that I wanted to play. You know, I love I love horror
• 24:53
  games. I always just kind of felt that
• 24:55
  there wasn't all. This should be cool as a game.
• 24:57
  This would be called as a game. Nobody's doing it.
• 25:00
  Sorry. I'm going to make it there.
• 25:02
  You have it. Guys.
• 25:03
  Go. Make sure you go and download
• 25:05
  that game. You you didn't mention this, but
• 25:07
  I'll mention it for you. There is an option to obviously
• 25:10
  like donate and stuff and I think Aaron is very very
• 25:12
  talented. She should definitely go and
• 25:14
  donate a couple of just a couple of dollars.
• 25:16
  Pounds, whatever, you can afford to put it towards it because you
• 25:20
  know, Aaron puts a lot of effort into these games and there's a
• 25:24
  real passion there. And you know, like I said, I've
• 25:27
  played the games myself, they're really good, they're fun.
• 25:30
  I forget that I'm playing a friend of mines game did.
• 25:32
  I mean I just kind of play the game and it's fun and that's you
• 25:35
  know obviously the principal point of why you play a game in
• 25:38
  the first place so go check it out.
• 25:41
  Moving forward. Yeah, you seem to have quite a
• 25:43
  focus on the horror genre. Not a bad thing at all.
• 25:47
  But do you have plans to kind of make games for different genres,
• 25:50
  or you're going to just stick, okay?
• 25:52
  All right. Yep, what you think?
• 25:56
  So, one thing that you like, and if there's any people that are
• 26:01
  into games development out there, the one thing that you'll
• 26:04
  find very early on is that you just suddenly get this wave of
• 26:07
  ideas. And if I, when I log into Unreal
• 26:10
  Engine, now I sit there and I look and I go and I was like, I
• 26:14
  think one, two, three and this is my fourth so I got four
• 26:19
  projects kind of ongoing at the moment one of which you know
• 26:21
  about because obviously you are my leading man in it but I'm
• 26:27
  also working. On a cyberpunk shooter, which
• 26:33
  such a good idea as well, right now, Feliz in a game like that.
• 26:36
  But anyway, it's gone. So I'm doing one of those and
• 26:39
  I'm also doing a complete comedy game, which take does not take
• 26:44
  itself seriously, and it's called bar for and reviews.
• 26:47
  Now, the bathroom reviews game is based on a video that I saw
• 26:52
  on YouTube that I just, I love this guy so much he walks around
• 26:56
  in video games any reviews, their bathrooms. in the video
• 26:59
  games, but his commentary is so like It comes across so good
• 27:05
  down genuine. Yeah, can't help but laugh about
• 27:08
  it and he reviews all the bathrooms from like Hitman, I
• 27:12
  think crisis is in there. He does VR bathrooms, everything
• 27:15
  is in there. And I just so funnily enough
• 27:18
  though, recently, I I messaged him and I said, I'm making a
• 27:22
  video game based on your videos and he was just like, and he
• 27:25
  actually replied. He was like, no way.
• 27:26
  It was like, yeah. So he's going to be playing it
• 27:28
  on his channel when it's done. Oh my God.
• 27:31
  Yeah, wow. That's Credible.
• 27:34
  Be able to interact with urinals Taps, toilets.
• 27:39
  And there's going to be like like bathrooms from various
• 27:42
  different games that I love like Silent Hill and all that sort
• 27:46
  of. Anyway, you know, it's just one
• 27:47
  of those really fun games. You can just pick up and just
• 27:50
  kind of play and have a great time web.
• 27:53
  So, yeah, also do it again. On the side note, this is, why
• 27:56
  is it pays off to be bold? Sometimes and just try, I'm
• 28:00
  serious, you know, with this podcast, some of the people I've
• 28:03
  reached That's why I never thought they would.
• 28:05
  They would get back to me. There was one guy I interviewed.
• 28:08
  You might you may have seen this, he's a professional
• 28:10
  wrestler who was on TLC's Cheapskates.
• 28:14
  Yeah yeah and yeah I just messaged him out.
• 28:17
  The blue-eyed. I already did a reaction video
• 28:19
  on him. I thought it was kind of
• 28:21
  audacious to ask if he'd want to be on my podcast.
• 28:24
  When I've kind of, you know, I mean, I think Cody Cohen and
• 28:31
  Knoll Miller really tore him a new one.
• 28:33
  Or as I was just more kind of like fair and stuff and I was,
• 28:36
  you know, but he agreed to be on it and you know that I think
• 28:41
  that a lot of the time people forget that you know when you're
• 28:43
  reaching out to people no matter how big they are, you know,
• 28:47
  there are still people. And you know, they may say yes,
• 28:50
  you know there's plenty of people.
• 28:51
  I've reached out to they've said no, they've ignored me.
• 28:55
  But, you know, you just got to keep trying and eventually
• 28:57
  people will, and yeah, that guy that you mentioned.
• 29:00
  I'm it's a fantastic idea. It's funny.
• 29:04
  Again another side now. It's funny.
• 29:07
  How? Because I remember you telling
• 29:08
  me about this guy and how, like, everything else on his channel
• 29:12
  by comparison is just not as good, and it just kind of makes
• 29:15
  me laugh because those videos blew up and you can never really
• 29:19
  know what will blow up on a YouTube channel, what?
• 29:22
  People going to connect with, you know, like right now, if you
• 29:26
  look at my channel and you look at the videos that have got the
• 29:29
  most views, it's just like random crap.
• 29:32
  It's like as One video I did on like a UK sex pan where it's
• 29:36
  just yeah I remember that one. Yeah.
• 29:38
  Like seven-minute vlogger me just saying all this is funny
• 29:40
  and a and like that has got close to 2,000 views yet all the
• 29:44
  stuff that I put my heart and soul into gets nothing.
• 29:50
  What is this? YouTube variety is the spice of
• 29:55
  life, apparently, so, but apparently just just make random
• 29:58
  crap and put minimal effort in and that will probably blow Now,
• 30:04
  but like for real like you got it you got to stick with stuff
• 30:07
  like the people like, I mean, one of the reasons I keep doing
• 30:09
  the podcast is that it seems to be received well, so I mean, I
• 30:13
  think it's always kind of makes sense to stick with stuff that a
• 30:17
  you're passionate about P. Be people kind of relate to and
• 30:22
  connect with and bring it back to you.
• 30:25
  That certainly is kind of the case with you know your games
• 30:28
  development and everything and you know in terms of the other
• 30:32
  questions. I have, who are your main
• 30:35
  sources of inspiration? For the game, development side
• 30:40
  of things. Yeah, we can be anything
• 30:42
  because, you know, you never know where your inspiration can
• 30:44
  come from. So I guess a lot of my
• 30:47
  inspiration in terms of things like audio music, you've got
• 30:50
  things, like Marilyn Manson, massive, massive Banner at Guy
• 30:56
  movies that kind of by directors that inspire me people, I guess
• 31:01
  would be thinking people like John Carpenter Quentin
• 31:06
  Tarantino. No, Robert Rodriguez.
• 31:09
  Those are the kind of main three that I would probably say and
• 31:12
  then in terms of like game development side of things.
• 31:17
  So obviously you've got things like Silent Hill, Resident Evil.
• 31:23
  You've got things like alone in the dark.
• 31:26
  If you ever remember those games, I wish they'd bring them
• 31:28
  back. You know, I'm a, I'm a man, I am
• 31:32
  a obviously and I don't just mean this because they're my
• 31:34
  friends, but this is the reason I got involved with it.
• 31:37
  First place and, you know, I was attracted to them.
• 31:39
  Matt Reeves is an amazing guys, working on some great, great
• 31:42
  stuff right now, you know, videos and a be opposed to with
• 31:48
  their sort of Storytelling and businesses design.
• 31:51
  You know, they're those two like a recipe for great things.
• 31:54
  So I I'm you know greatly admire and in and am inspired by those
• 32:00
  guys and obviously they helped me get started as well.
• 32:03
  I like things like, you know, Dead Space.
• 32:06
  Those are really. Ali, cool as well.
• 32:08
  You know, anything that's kind of got that really heavy
• 32:11
  atmosphere to it. The Amnesia series is a really
• 32:15
  great game for that as well. You know, heavy storytelling,
• 32:18
  lots of exploration, but just just this, this whole creepy
• 32:22
  Factor about the whole thing from start to finish.
• 32:25
  And yeah, those are the sort of games inspire me in terms of
• 32:31
  like platform and ones. Obviously, like I said, you
• 32:32
  know, I did a platformer Crash Bandicoot moving game, You know
• 32:37
  love Crash Bandicoot gets deep cover gecko.
• 32:41
  I haven't had a date in years, get this one guy so Abe's
• 32:45
  exoddus. Those are all sort of like
• 32:47
  really sort of like heavily inspired games.
• 32:50
  I remember playing Abe's Oddysee.
• 32:53
  Yeah, if that was an old one from the perspective of being a
• 32:58
  games. Developer are there any games
• 33:00
  that I don't know? I'll popular or well known that.
• 33:03
  You just think a pure trash. Just, you know, Crap, and maybe
• 33:08
  it sounds, you know, of the storyline or maybe it's like,
• 33:11
  actually how it's developed in my in-game engine, all that
• 33:14
  stuff. I guess one of the biggest kind
• 33:17
  of jokes that we have in terms of like our little group is
• 33:24
  Silent Hill. Being one of our biggest
• 33:25
  Inspirations in my, one of the franchises that we love is so
• 33:30
  terrible. These days is so bad.
• 33:33
  And I think it's where Comey kind of got rid of the original
• 33:36
  team. They started Outsourcing it to
• 33:37
  American sort of companies and, you know, while they're
• 33:41
  Americans got nothing to do with it but they obviously are people
• 33:44
  that kind of Maybe lack the original Vision, you know, they
• 33:48
  kind of make it more mainstream it.
• 33:51
  Got lost heavily along the way. So those sort of later games I
• 33:56
  would say, are really popular because they sold.
• 33:59
  Well, obviously the Silent Hill. They're very well known but they
• 34:02
  are just bad bad games. The same can be done said about
• 34:07
  the last Dead Space, you know, those are things, you know,
• 34:12
  Resident Evil 2, you know, before they saw I've started
• 34:15
  doing the remakes and their new Resident Evil engine, they
• 34:18
  started to lose their way, they became more of an action game,
• 34:21
  it kind of lost horror. Just went out the window and
• 34:26
  it's just, you know, it's kind of disappointing.
• 34:28
  When you take all of those franchises that you love and
• 34:32
  then they kind of just what did you do to them?
• 34:35
  You know, so I would say that they're probably the biggest
• 34:39
  ones that I could think of that. Just god-awful, it's weird how
• 34:43
  they do that. So I can figure movie I mean,
• 34:45
  obviously you mentioned that Silent Hill and stuff like the
• 34:47
  Resident Evil movie series is kind of the same deal, you know,
• 34:50
  like they tried to do something different with It In fairness to
• 34:53
  them because at the first couple were okay.
• 34:56
  And then after that it just got kind of got a bit weird.
• 35:00
  I don't know, and I think I think sometimes like there's
• 35:05
  different arguments you can make like either one.
• 35:07
  They're just not really adhering to what the the fan base wants
• 35:10
  and then trying to just do their own thing of what they think
• 35:13
  will sell or Maybe their Panda and too much to the audience and
• 35:17
  they're not thinking about what my cell.
• 35:20
  I don't know. It's hard to say but I always do
• 35:23
  find that interest in like when you when you have something that
• 35:25
  works and like you think of that expression of that if it ain't
• 35:29
  broke, don't fix it kind of thing.
• 35:31
  But sometimes yeah I mean even popular series like Halo for
• 35:36
  example, you know, it was really, really excellent in it's
• 35:40
  like first three installments and then after that it's not to
• 35:44
  say it was bad but You just didn't compare to the original
• 35:47
  games. Yeah, I think that had a lot to
• 35:50
  do with the studio that took over from bungee 343 Industries.
• 35:55
  I think they're called now probably just finding their feet
• 35:59
  because I notice like some of the, like, more recent Halo
• 36:03
  games have got progressively better.
• 36:05
  So, but yeah, I'm in by ODST being one of the worst games.
• 36:09
  I have a blade. It was it was war.
• 36:12
  Why is it so bad? I never played it by her door.
• 36:16
  It's about, had a very, had a very messy nonlinear story.
• 36:20
  It was a very dark game. Like I remember having to crank
• 36:23
  the brightness up way too much like it's just dark, they had a
• 36:27
  lot of I think celebrity sort of appearances in it, you know.
• 36:32
  So they had probably a lot riding on this one and it just
• 36:35
  kind of I think they tried to do too much with its that are just
• 36:37
  let it be Halo, you know. So we'll see what the new ones
• 36:43
  are going to come out like because I know It's already kind
• 36:45
  of come in Under Fire because it looks like ass but we'll we'll
• 36:49
  wait and see. But interesting thing about the
• 36:51
  whole Silent Hill thing though, is all these people doing
• 36:54
  remakes and making a tons of money, like Capcom and Resident
• 36:57
  Evils, like literally killing it right now, they're making
• 36:59
  bucket, loads of money. And all these people literally
• 37:03
  clamoring for a remake of Silent Hill or even a new one.
• 37:06
  I think we take anything at this point because it's been years
• 37:09
  and they're just like, no and actually can only reply to me on
• 37:13
  one of my tweets recently saying, I'm like hi Aaron.
• 37:16
  We don't actually have any plans to remake or remaster one of
• 37:18
  these right now and I was like, so you don't like money.
• 37:22
  You know, you're a business. It's just not honestly baffles
• 37:25
  me. I think it's because they focus
• 37:27
  too much on mobile games with in-app purchases these days.
• 37:31
  You know, they make so much money that way.
• 37:33
  So that's probably where their business focus is.
• 37:35
  But yeah, there isn't that kind of the business model for
• 37:38
  console gaming as well and PC gaming, because you still have
• 37:42
  you that you were always by the content, you know?
• 37:45
  And then, pretty much everything from that point onwards is
• 37:49
  downloadable content General. I mean, like it, be it DLC or
• 37:54
  like skins. I mean, the amount of money that
• 37:56
  games companies make on skins, you know, me, it looked like a
• 38:00
  game like Fortnight, you know, a crazy amounts of money on these
• 38:06
  skins which it baffles me. But, you know, people will buy
• 38:11
  anything to know, they mean to be and fair play.
• 38:16
  But yeah, that that baffles me to on that basis because while
• 38:20
  Mobile gaming is huge, don't get me wrong.
• 38:23
  You know, you could still stand to make tons of money on
• 38:26
  consoles and PC with the exact same model generally just that,
• 38:30
  I mean, look how long GTA 5 has gone.
• 38:32
  I obviously those jokes about, you know, I can another bloody
• 38:36
  remaster or you know like another read another version of
• 38:40
  the same game but people still buy it and people still play it
• 38:44
  all these years. That's been around for 17 years.
• 38:47
  Well, it came out there PS3 and the Xbox 360, then they're like,
• 38:50
  and you think that's, it's lasted.
• 38:53
  This will be its third generation that he goes into
• 38:55
  because these getting the PS5 treatment and the Xbox One
• 38:58
  series X treatment as well. Yeah.
• 39:02
  Why don't they just call it like Xbox 720 or something generally
• 39:05
  like to, or is it just baffles me, man?
• 39:11
  That was me. Anyway, let's bring it back to
• 39:14
  you. What are your main goals and
• 39:16
  aspirations for your career in games development?
• 39:20
  So I think right now I'd like to be recognized like if I ever
• 39:28
  wanted to progress this into, like a proper for Studio, make
• 39:31
  AAA games, I'm obviously going to need to study for that and
• 39:35
  looking at some of the criteria, it doesn't look too bad.
• 39:39
  So there's a lot of courses out there that I could do open
• 39:43
  University. Those sort of things we're
• 39:45
  looking at about anywhere, between three and five years.
• 39:47
  I feel like I could probably, Only shave a little bit of that
• 39:50
  time off given, you know, the fact, I've already almost been
• 39:52
  doing it for a year and I've obviously got the support there
• 39:55
  if I need it. But yeah I'm kind of like the
• 39:59
  movie industry. I feel like it's also going to
• 40:02
  be one of those things. It's about more like who, you
• 40:04
  know, rather than what, you know, because there's so many
• 40:06
  different aspects to it. You could come in at like most
• 40:10
  level, she could just go in straight in at Q and A, or you
• 40:12
  could do R&D, you know, and then just work your way up.
• 40:16
  So in terms of us, Operations. I think the next big step for me
• 40:21
  is to sort of kind of like get this kind of really nailed down,
• 40:25
  so I can, you know, give me a solid foundation.
• 40:29
  And then what I would like to do is then obviously, you know,
• 40:31
  give myself a proper accredited like degree in it or something,
• 40:36
  so I can actually sort of apply for those sort of things.
• 40:41
  So that that's the that's the aspirations for it.
• 40:43
  This is something that I enjoy doing quite a lot.
• 40:46
  Actually, I don't think I've ever gotten a kick Out of
• 40:49
  anything so much than this. And yeah.
• 40:53
  Good for you, man. I'm happy to hear that.
• 40:57
  This is a random one completely left field, but I was interested
• 41:01
  in your thoughts on this. Where do you think the future of
• 41:04
  Indie Games is likely to be headed in the sort?
• 41:06
  Next, let's say three to five years.
• 41:09
  I think they can overtake major Studios.
• 41:13
  Generally because they have a lot more freedom.
• 41:16
  They don't have the constraints. I'd say, as much as AAA studios
• 41:22
  in terms of budget, they don't answer to a board of directors.
• 41:27
  You know, they've got they literally just had their small
• 41:30
  teams, they decide what they're going to do.
• 41:31
  They make what they want to love.
• 41:33
  In fact, I'm so confident about how in these are going to sort
• 41:38
  of rise up that Did you know Nintendo actually gave over the
• 41:46
  rights to make a Zelda game to an indie Studio?
• 41:49
  Nintendo won't be holding it themselves.
• 41:51
  Wow, because there's so impressed with this like little
• 41:55
  team of black people, what they can do.
• 41:58
  So they're going to, that's kind of what I'm trying to get at
• 42:01
  here is then you shouldn't underestimate indeed herbs
• 42:03
  because they can do everything that the normal Studios can, but
• 42:07
  they just don't have 200 300 people and Millions of dollars
• 42:11
  in budget. You know, you might be working
• 42:13
  with four or five people and you might only have a budget of
• 42:16
  10,000, you know, but you can still come out with the same
• 42:20
  level of quality. There's there, literally is no
• 42:22
  difference between this whole AAA an indie stuff.
• 42:25
  It's more to do with the what time do you have?
• 42:27
  How skilled is the person that you've got in there?
• 42:31
  Yeah, that's pretty much it, really?
• 42:33
  Yeah, you make a solid Point, man.
• 42:34
  I mean, when I think about this sort of games that obviously let
• 42:37
  people like YouTubers, like PewDiePie Markiplier people like
• 42:40
  that. I've often stuck purely to Indie
• 42:43
  Games and when you look at the level of those get even some of
• 42:46
  the games you've paid on your channel as well.
• 42:47
  Like, I've, I've always kind of been pretty taken back by the
• 42:51
  quality of like, you know, things of the graphics, the
• 42:53
  in-game engine and stuff. As you say, is those constraints
• 42:57
  of people, if you have more people and a bigger budget, you
• 43:01
  can do more with it with without you kind of your limited.
• 43:05
  But that's not to say that the game on still enjoyable.
• 43:08
  And I see I've seen so many games that have such simple
• 43:10
  premise. Is but look really entertaining.
• 43:13
  Like I remember just another tangent here, but that game that
• 43:16
  you played on your channel long time ago, where there's like a
• 43:20
  guy in a prison and he's like throwing a ball around and
• 43:23
  eating cookies and right? Really simple.
• 43:27
  But like really enjoyable because of, you know, the
• 43:30
  atmosphere created and the you do not know me.
• 43:33
  Like I feel like Games games, make it a lot.
• 43:38
  Making a good game is so much more about the thought that you
• 43:41
  put into the little details rather than do this stunning
• 43:44
  backdrop, or this stunning games engine or this or that
• 43:47
  gentleman. Like, you can have all that
• 43:49
  stuff and the game could still be trashed.
• 43:52
  It really comes down to like, yeah, like the thought that you
• 43:55
  put into actually like, is this enjoyable?
• 43:58
  What will people get from this? Can this be expanded upon is
• 44:02
  there room for a sequel or a franchise?
• 44:04
  Like, you know, whatever. But like off The answers to
• 44:07
  those questions. Come from, like the root of
• 44:10
  like, is the game just fun or not?
• 44:14
  I think that's the problem. With a lot of the bigger Studios
• 44:17
  is, there is too much of a focus on on Graphics where it
• 44:22
  shouldn't be like, Graphics are great and stuff but like, Are we
• 44:27
  really that Amazed by Graphics anymore, Janome?
• 44:29
  I think the last time I was amazed by Graphics, was the
• 44:32
  first time I saw Halo 3, which shows my age.
• 44:34
  But given that. Nothing at the time really came
• 44:38
  close. It was pretty like mind-blowing,
• 44:42
  whereas now it's kind of more of an expectation really isn't if
• 44:45
  you have a game that like a major game that doesn't have
• 44:48
  those Graphics then it's like, oh this is terrible.
• 44:51
  Where is Indie Games? Get the pass because it's like
• 44:54
  as you say it smaller teams smaller, You expect that but yet
• 44:58
  the quality is still really high anyway.
• 45:00
  So, yeah, it'd be interesting to see where it goes, but I was
• 45:04
  just curious for your thoughts since you actually are in the
• 45:07
  world now since you're now. Yeah, let's keep moving it
• 45:12
  Forward. Completely different question
• 45:14
  here, I asked Jack, oh, this question as well.
• 45:17
  What do you think you'll consider getting back into
• 45:20
  podcasting in the future? Perhaps for like a gaming
• 45:24
  podcast or games development, Podcast, because I remember when
• 45:29
  we kind of broke down the podcast and, you know, everyone
• 45:32
  did their own thing, you were very like straight with it.
• 45:36
  You were like, I want to do other things.
• 45:39
  I'm not enjoying this anymore. I was like fair enough and then
• 45:43
  obviously you started doing games development and I saw you
• 45:45
  smashing it so much of that. I was like I get it.
• 45:47
  Yeah this is totally what you should be doing.
• 45:49
  But with that being said and I again I said this the jacket as
• 45:52
  well. I think that we all you know,
• 45:55
  came together. Quite nicely.
• 45:56
  It was good. Chemistry at work really well.
• 45:58
  And from that side of things, we barely had to put in the effort
• 46:01
  in, you know, like you good good at doing the podcast being on a
• 46:05
  podcast. So I was curious that like if
• 46:08
  you would actually consider doing something in in that field
• 46:12
  in games development, because I think it would be interesting
• 46:14
  for example, you know, it's like you Matt and vid us did a thing
• 46:17
  together or whoever. I don't know.
• 46:21
  That would be interesting to see is I'm just doing curious,
• 46:23
  whether you have interest in that or not.
• 46:26
  So I think for me it would probably definitely be something
• 46:29
  I would consider doing. And I also, you know, I wanted
• 46:36
  to kind of, I've been thinking about it.
• 46:37
  I guess is the short answer because I also want to kind of
• 46:41
  do a bit more streaming aswell because I used to do that quite
• 46:43
  a bit. You know, I still get new
• 46:46
  people. Join my twitch Channel even
• 46:48
  though I haven't baked on a streaming like tomb of two and a
• 46:50
  half months, you know, something.
• 46:52
  And it's just one of those things where I think there's a
• 46:56
  lot that I could probably do and show and get people to
• 46:59
  understand. And like so, for example, I
• 47:01
  could do thick, he's like a podcast, but it's more in the
• 47:06
  format of like a development. Look like, what am I doing?
• 47:08
  How did I do this? You know what is the end result?
• 47:11
  People could learn something from that, you know, it wouldn't
• 47:14
  necessarily be have a guest on there with me.
• 47:16
  It might just be like, hmm, a podcast where I talk about that
• 47:19
  sort of the side effects. Likewise I've seen, Matt do it
• 47:23
  before. When he did a game Jam.
• 47:24
  He's streamed the entire like game Jam like when he worked, he
• 47:28
  streamed and showed his process. So that would be something as
• 47:31
  well that I've been looking at sort of getting into as well.
• 47:33
  But I think, you know, if the whole thing works out well, with
• 47:40
  this games, it would probably be a good idea.
• 47:44
  Because I think it's, you know, he's got such a huge fan base.
• 47:47
  The it almost seems to me like it would be a very good idea
• 47:53
  that I know he's not much of a talker, but I guess he wouldn't
• 47:56
  have to do much of the talking if you didn't want to.
• 47:59
  I guess me and Abby could do that.
• 48:00
  And we could talk about our process or not.
• 48:04
  How did this come about? What did we do?
• 48:06
  You know, when did we do that? It's still kind of early days
• 48:09
  right now. And I know obviously we've got a
• 48:12
  number of projects that we're working on and we're just kind
• 48:15
  of trying to get them on one at a time.
• 48:16
  I think once those are done and we can sort of take the time or
• 48:19
  work on one game at a time, then we could probably marry those
• 48:22
  two together. So that then he's patreon
• 48:24
  supporters people in the Discord server, they can probably just
• 48:28
  have access to these because like I said he has a good fan
• 48:30
  base in this. Generally people in there that
• 48:32
  are always interested in What he's doing and what he's doing.
• 48:36
  So I think you'll be good. Yeah, me too.
• 48:40
  I think that'd be really interesting.
• 48:41
  I mean, some, some of those things, those things that you
• 48:43
  mentioned. Now, I hadn't even thought of
• 48:45
  yeah, that sounds really fascinating like seeing someone
• 48:48
  actually creating a game and the process of that which actually
• 48:51
  brings me on to my next question, like talk to us a
• 48:54
  little bit about the process of how you create a game or how you
• 48:58
  approach that. Like what, what are the simple
• 49:02
  steps involved with that obviously you?
• 49:04
  Said that it's not a simple process but I'm just curious of
• 49:06
  the general approach. Yeah, so as much as like, okay,
• 49:11
  so in terms of structure, it will, you know, like anything,
• 49:14
  it starts with an idea and then you sort of like, think about
• 49:17
  it, you shut it down. I have like a book that sits on
• 49:19
  my desk and I kind of sketch ideas and I write down ideas.
• 49:23
  And then, if I feel like it's worth doing something, then I'll
• 49:26
  kind of run with it and I'll do like a, what I call like a small
• 49:28
  concept. Nothing fantastic.
• 49:31
  You know, something is just like really slapdash Gotta get the
• 49:35
  mechanics in place, does it work if yes, move on to next stage.
• 49:41
  So in terms of that sort of process is very linear like
• 49:44
  that, the thing that then tends to happen is that when you kind
• 49:48
  of agree to do this, you go. Yeah.
• 49:50
  I like this. You know, I'm really good.
• 49:52
  You might not. And I'll take this game Jam for
• 49:54
  an example. I started off with this idea and
• 49:57
  I was just like, Yep. Going to do this this this and
• 50:01
  this and then I had this thought, I'm sorry if I did this
• 50:05
  and I had this. And then you spend the next day,
• 50:07
  completely derailing, what you would do originally doing
• 50:10
  because you just didn't had this other idea.
• 50:12
  And that's the great thing about game development.
• 50:14
  You just literally give birth to these ideas.
• 50:16
  The minute you open. You can go all in and I've got
• 50:18
  this really cool scene that happens in the game based on
• 50:23
  kind of that that was never in my original plans but I thought
• 50:25
  damn that's that's awesome. You know and I'm going to put
• 50:28
  that in there and you know and then they Generally sort of how
• 50:30
  it works. And then in terms of making it
• 50:33
  General process is, you know, do your scenes, do you levels?
• 50:36
  Do your animations, do your modeling in, you know, all of
• 50:39
  that sort of thing. I would work generally in sort
• 50:43
  of tangent with them. So, if there's particular scene
• 50:45
  that I'm working on and that scene is a bit of music than
• 50:48
  that, music will go and get created, you know, you don't
• 50:51
  kind of leave it, that sort of side of things.
• 50:53
  You just kind of want to get all of that done perfectly.
• 50:55
  And then you kind of move on to the other things.
• 50:59
  Things can go wrong as well. You know, like things like of my
• 51:02
  most recent thing was last night.
• 51:05
  I package the game which means basically like it's ready.
• 51:09
  Here you go and so you can play it just to make sure everything
• 51:12
  ran properly. And for some reason, it was
• 51:15
  working in the editor. So when I push play and was
• 51:17
  testing the game inside the engine, it worked fine,
• 51:20
  everything was perfect. But then when a person was going
• 51:23
  to play it, you click Start game.
• 51:25
  And then the menu would just reload and you'd be like Okay,
• 51:28
  star game. And then the menu would reload,
• 51:30
  no matter how many times you clicked it, the menu would just
• 51:33
  keep reloading and I was like, what, in the world?
• 51:36
  So anyway, I was working on this all day and then that happened
• 51:40
  and then I think I will and then about 11:00 p.m. last night I
• 51:43
  gave up. I was like and then I got up at
• 51:46
  5:00 this morning and I spent about 20 minutes on it when our
• 51:49
  that's the issue and I fixed it. It's amazing.
• 51:54
  Isn't it? How sometimes you just got to do
• 51:56
  that? Like, I have that sometimes With
• 51:58
  my stuff, where I'll be working on something.
• 52:01
  And I don't know, I just hit like a sort of a brick wall and
• 52:04
  then I just got off. I get old, I'll just come back
• 52:06
  to it or whatever. And then the next day, boom.
• 52:09
  Get it just, you know, staying yeah.
• 52:14
  Awesome. Well, let's talk YouTube for a
• 52:17
  little bit before your main Channel, which we're going to
• 52:21
  get to. You had a channel that had like
• 52:24
  some moderate success and you kind of described it to me as
• 52:27
  kind Light a jokes Place Mimi kind of thing.
• 52:31
  I don't know. Like you're just testing you to.
• 52:33
  I don't know how else to put it, but I was kind of curious.
• 52:36
  I couldn't exactly remember what you'd said to me, so I thought
• 52:39
  I'd we would just rehash it now, why didn't you continue with
• 52:43
  that it would channel channel because remember one of the
• 52:45
  videos, got a lot of views if I recall correctly.
• 52:48
  Yeah, I love you. So so the main reason, like,
• 52:52
  long story short, I didn't continue.
• 52:54
  It was the channel was with my brother.
• 52:57
  And it was generally like a lot of work on my part, like, I had
• 53:02
  the, the editing software, I had to, you know, the ability to
• 53:08
  create and do other things that are like a channel would want
• 53:12
  and he gave up so then I was kind of, you know, I like it, I
• 53:18
  like doing this so I might create something that's just me,
• 53:21
  you know, my eye. Then I would only upload once a
• 53:25
  week whereas the previous channel we would Probably doing
• 53:28
  it like three, four, sometimes even five times a week and we
• 53:33
  did this one video where we played the siren head game.
• 53:36
  Now siren head now is like a massive deal.
• 53:39
  Like he's everywhere he's become an almost like pop culture but
• 53:43
  back then when I played it he was relatively unheard of, you
• 53:47
  know, I played this game and after some reason, God knows why
• 53:52
  I just did this, what I would consider probably one of the
• 53:55
  First videos where I did a rather professional.
• 53:57
  No introduction. I didn't do any commentary.
• 54:02
  I don't believe during the video and then, yeah, it just
• 54:07
  overnight and then it's just up and up and up.
• 54:09
  And I think as of now is that nearly like 40-something
• 54:11
  thousand views and that doesn't sound like a lot to some people.
• 54:14
  But obviously, you don't think this was channel that had less
• 54:17
  than 1000 subscribers. So I was, you know, and it was
• 54:21
  like, I think I can't remember what happened, but it was
• 54:23
  something like, I don't know. We just got to 100 subscribers
• 54:26
  or something silly, like that. And then we did this video to
• 54:30
  say, oh, Oh, here's the soldier subscriber.
• 54:31
  Special siren head. And then we woke up the next
• 54:34
  morning and it was like 300 subscribers.
• 54:36
  And we were like, holy crap. And then it went all the way up
• 54:40
  and we broke a thousand subscribers like relatively
• 54:42
  quickly and we were like, holy crap, you know, and then it was
• 54:46
  all because of this one video. It was it was ridiculous, you
• 54:49
  know? And then so I've never been able
• 54:52
  to even come close to replicating those sort of
• 54:54
  figures but yeah it's just kind of like what you said at the
• 54:59
  beginning that You know, you could spend five minutes on
• 55:02
  something and it gets like a ton of use or you could spend
• 55:05
  absolutely ages on something and get nothing.
• 55:08
  You really don't know what's going to happen and what's going
• 55:11
  to unless you've already got that that sort of fan base.
• 55:14
  But I think it does go to show that obviously if you're maybe
• 55:17
  like really into doing youtubing or you're into creating videos
• 55:21
  and stuff, you may want to sort of like if you're having a
• 55:25
  particularly bad time we're struggling because this isn't
• 55:28
  happening, don't give up because Does anything can change like
• 55:31
  overnight? Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 55:34
  I mean, you know, I've been doing YouTube properly now,
• 55:39
  since I want to say the middle middle of last year early last
• 55:43
  year and, you know, you've been there with me throughout all of
• 55:47
  us. So, you know, like my ups and
• 55:48
  downs and stuff. And these days, I'm much better
• 55:52
  with my attitude towards it. Like, I've kind of just accepted
• 55:55
  now that, you know, Things don't really perform the way you want
• 56:00
  them to. So you have to kind of focus on
• 56:04
  on as you said that, doing what you love.
• 56:06
  And you know, that's not to say that none of my videos ever do
• 56:11
  well, but like it's relative June and I mean like I've been
• 56:14
  stuck on being under 500 subscribers for like God knows
• 56:18
  how long, you know, I have friends that have thousands who
• 56:22
  are doing really well, that's the tricky part.
• 56:25
  When you see other people around you, You doing well and you're
• 56:28
  not going anywhere. It's difficult.
• 56:31
  And obviously as you know, I've got like two channels now, so
• 56:35
  I'm doing even more content and that all evolved from from a
• 56:39
  conversation, I had with you and Jack.
• 56:41
  Oh if you're a cool because I was producing so much but I
• 56:45
  needed a way to like structure and organize it and now I'm
• 56:48
  happy to say it's actually come into its own and it has its own
• 56:51
  kind of divide. Now it's a bit more structured
• 56:55
  but yeah, like That hope the waning hope of that is things
• 56:59
  going to do well it right now. And again, it does get to me,
• 57:03
  but as you say, you just got to keep trying because, you know, I
• 57:08
  kind of see it, like, the lottery.
• 57:09
  Like, you know, if you just give up then it just won't happen
• 57:12
  because you're just not doing it.
• 57:13
  Whereas, if you're always putting content out, there's
• 57:16
  always a chance. Yes.
• 57:18
  So yeah, but as you say It's So Random.
• 57:21
  I mean, when I look at the stuff that I'm proudest of often, it's
• 57:25
  the stuff that doesn't Do as well but then I don't know,
• 57:28
  sometimes it's weird. Like for instance, I was looking
• 57:30
  up just my analytics this morning and like some random
• 57:35
  Vlog that I did. I don't know in May April about
• 57:42
  I think I was up work stories from years ago.
• 57:45
  Something like that retail store.
• 57:46
  Yeah, I think I remember that one.
• 57:48
  Yeah. Now it's doing well, but I
• 57:49
  remember when it first came out, it got like 10 views if that and
• 57:54
  a lot of the time I've noticed this as well like stuff picks up
• 57:57
  over time, you know, as long as you, yeah, you put a lot of
• 58:00
  effort into like the things that the tags, the thumbnails,
• 58:03
  everything else in between they do pick up views and I like My
• 58:07
  focus is always in the now, focus on what you're doing right
• 58:11
  now. Don't think about what happened,
• 58:12
  six months ago, three months ago, like, that's great, be
• 58:15
  proud of it, but focus on exactly what you're doing now,
• 58:18
  and always make sure that it's excellent.
• 58:20
  So like, I mean, I would never approach anything with a
• 58:23
  half-assed attitude. I'll always put everything into
• 58:26
  it but the way I see it is, like, let's say you're listening
• 58:28
  to the podcast or watching the podcast and it's not your first
• 58:31
  time ever listening or watching it, if I would just be like,
• 58:35
  yeah, you know, To another another poker.
• 58:39
  Like, you know, No One's Gonna care.
• 58:40
  No One's Gonna want that. But if you come and come into it
• 58:43
  and it's like good energy. Well, produced is organized,
• 58:48
  whatever. And it's always the same, you
• 58:50
  know, that's going to be more enticing, I think and basically,
• 58:55
  yeah, don't give up, put the effort in.
• 59:00
  Anyway let's bring it back to you.
• 59:02
  Your current channel is kind of a showcase mostly for
• 59:06
  independent games. You have done series on there
• 59:08
  before like the Star Wars Jedi Order for.
• 59:13
  Is that right all in order? Sorry.
• 59:15
  Okay. Yeah, which did really well.
• 59:18
  But I always, and I said this, to you ages ago, I, I've always
• 59:21
  thought that your independent games that you showcased have
• 59:24
  always been like, the better episodes, I feel because it's
• 59:26
  more interesting. You know, obviously sometimes it
• 59:30
  will be like you've played people like videos his games on
• 59:34
  there before and that's really interesting because you can give
• 59:37
  us Bit of an behind the scenes as well.
• 59:40
  But yeah, in general like that, indie games are always a bit
• 59:42
  more quirky, aren't they? But I kind of I guess I wanted
• 59:46
  to know with my next question is you know, what are the future
• 59:50
  plans for this Channel and and your your Twitch as well?
• 59:54
  Because I feel like that those are kind of, they kind of come
• 59:58
  hand-in-hand, obviously. A lot of time when you do your
• 1:00:00
  streams, you clip them and all you do the whole videos on
• 1:00:03
  YouTube and stuff and that they're all, they're all Is look
• 1:00:07
  very professional on both. So I guess I kind of just want
• 1:00:10
  to know what the plans moving forward, because I've always
• 1:00:12
  thrown the idea at you of like, well, why don't you showcase
• 1:00:15
  your own games and like, you know, your friends games and you
• 1:00:18
  do showcase your friends games but you know, showcase Euro
• 1:00:21
  games which is kind of always confused me.
• 1:00:23
  But my or maybe maybe it's a bit too weird to Showcase your what
• 1:00:31
  the plans. So twitch is definitely going to
• 1:00:36
  be For hanging out, chilling out, streaming games, having
• 1:00:40
  fun, and doing what I mentioned earlier.
• 1:00:43
  Showcasing my, I guess like, if I'm working on a game like, hey
• 1:00:47
  guys, come watch me, hang out and ask me questions, whatever
• 1:00:49
  you want to do 100% And then I'm going to be doing more twitch
• 1:00:53
  that sort of thing in terms of trial by fire.
• 1:00:55
  I need to have a YouTube channel regardless because part of where
• 1:01:00
  are we upload trailers and stuff like for a games and stuff you
• 1:01:04
  need to YouTube channel. So I think the YouTube side of
• 1:01:09
  things, more of itself are going to probably be more centered
• 1:01:11
  around my music. And trailers for games and
• 1:01:16
  stuff. I may do the occasional video
• 1:01:19
  and obviously, if I do decide to do any of those devlog sort of
• 1:01:21
  things, you'll probably be able to find them there.
• 1:01:24
  I would, I would assume I don't Envision me doing more sort of
• 1:01:29
  games like, gameplay games sort of thing.
• 1:01:32
  Like, you know, that sort of commentary where I do the games.
• 1:01:34
  The last few videos that I kind of put out in videos that I've
• 1:01:39
  been sitting on for a while and I decided to just go, you know
• 1:01:41
  what, here's a gameplay video of some We interesting game.
• 1:01:45
  I'm not going to talk to you in this one and then just let
• 1:01:47
  people enjoy the game and that's what about give it a bit more
• 1:01:49
  immersion. Hmm.
• 1:01:51
  So, but I think, yeah, for now, the YouTube side of things is
• 1:01:55
  probably going to change. I have obviously started the
• 1:01:58
  process of changing some of the banners and stuff like that on
• 1:02:02
  there, so that, you know, it's a bit more reflective, you know,
• 1:02:05
  of that. Like, there's no more about our
• 1:02:07
  weekly gameplay videos and stuff like that because it's just not
• 1:02:09
  gonna happen in at the moment. Yeah, so yeah.
• 1:02:14
  Fair enough switches where it's at.
• 1:02:16
  This is why I never I never promised anything with with
• 1:02:18
  mine. I mean, I don't know if it's the
• 1:02:20
  same for you with the creative process, but I always kind of go
• 1:02:23
  by, if the ideas come, you get videos, but one of the reasons I
• 1:02:28
  post so much on both channels is just because what a, I have time
• 1:02:32
  and be because the ideas come, but I have like a bank of ideas
• 1:02:35
  just sitting that I haven't done yet.
• 1:02:39
  I guess keeping for a rainy day like I will eventually do them
• 1:02:41
  but I kind of see it. Like, with the create Process.
• 1:02:44
  Everyone is different. Everyone works in a different
• 1:02:45
  way but you say sometimes you just you know you don't do
• 1:02:50
  either. Don't want to or not feeling up
• 1:02:51
  to it or what it like, you got to be in the right mood
• 1:02:54
  generally mean. Like I would never do a video or
• 1:02:57
  podcast on a day where I'm feeling bad feeling miserable
• 1:03:00
  because, you know, it wouldn't be right.
• 1:03:02
  And yeah, I just, I just feel a little weird sense of pressure
• 1:03:05
  as well. When like, for instance, you
• 1:03:07
  when we did the tcj podcast, like we set that it was every
• 1:03:11
  week, which Isn't that bad? It's just once a week it's not
• 1:03:16
  yeah but for some reason I just felt super stressed about it
• 1:03:20
  because it had to come out like a routine and you've got some
• 1:03:23
  sort of structure that would do this once a week two weeks,
• 1:03:26
  which is sort of like boom there.
• 1:03:27
  They had Christ really already and I think that's why we
• 1:03:30
  thought of toyed with the idea of going you know what why don't
• 1:03:33
  we do like will spend a couple of hours or you know?
• 1:03:37
  Yeah and we'll do we'll get two episodes are.
• 1:03:39
  There's in case we want a week off because obviously, you had
• 1:03:42
  your channel. I had my chance No check out his
• 1:03:44
  channel and you probably felt like you know and obviously with
• 1:03:47
  Jacko doing a lot of the editing it was one of those things where
• 1:03:51
  we probably felt like it was just like when am I going to get
• 1:03:55
  time to do my own content? Because we had such a quick
• 1:03:57
  turnaround on these things that it was almost like you had the
• 1:04:00
  weekend almost edit it and get ready for the clip on the Monday
• 1:04:03
  and it was going out on always at the clip would come out and
• 1:04:06
  then you'd also it had the full episode as well, so I can
• 1:04:09
  understand, you know, why there would be a lot of pressure,
• 1:04:12
  those sort of things. Absolutely.
• 1:04:14
  I mean like I have to say for anyone that is, I think I've
• 1:04:17
  said this on the podcast before, but anyone that is considering
• 1:04:20
  starting a podcast just beware that it's a lot of work in.
• 1:04:24
  Like it's really not just you. I mean, I suppose you can make
• 1:04:29
  it really simple, but if you really want to like put the
• 1:04:31
  effort in you you got to do a lot of work.
• 1:04:34
  I right now, I don't have a team behind me, is everything you
• 1:04:37
  see, be it, social media Clips, you know, where whatever you
• 1:04:41
  see. It's all me and it takes Time
• 1:04:44
  and you got put time aside for that and obviously, yeah.
• 1:04:47
  Like when you're doing a group situation where everyone has
• 1:04:50
  their own YouTube's, plus a group thing, your own stuff kind
• 1:04:55
  of, you know, gets left behind. And that was really the case for
• 1:04:58
  Jacqueline. We said that when we, when we
• 1:05:00
  did a pod together, that, you know, his stuff took a side see,
• 1:05:03
  which wasn't fair for him. And yeah, I mean, you know, I
• 1:05:08
  often said when we were doing the Pod together that I think
• 1:05:11
  The bigger you go. And if you're going for a
• 1:05:13
  schedule and you're going forward to these things and you
• 1:05:15
  have other things on the side that you're working on, that are
• 1:05:18
  equally as important. You really like a team behind
• 1:05:21
  you. I've often thought with my
• 1:05:23
  podcast I could save a lot of time and everything if I had a
• 1:05:27
  team but that's like more of a future consideration.
• 1:05:29
  I think that like in the beginning like when you're
• 1:05:31
  starting out you really have to do like everything yourself and
• 1:05:36
  put the work in and like work your way to the top kind of
• 1:05:39
  thing. Like work your way to the Like
• 1:05:41
  when you look at like groups like the side mount, for
• 1:05:44
  instance, you'll notice that they have like, you know, their
• 1:05:46
  own camera teams and everything and but they didn't start out
• 1:05:49
  that way. When they first started, it was
• 1:05:51
  just them doing everything and that's the reality and I think a
• 1:05:56
  lot of people don't realize that when they're first getting into
• 1:05:58
  YouTube or podcasting whatever like they you know, they see the
• 1:06:02
  amount of work that actually is involved and then their heart's
• 1:06:05
  not in it and they don't stick with it.
• 1:06:06
  You know. I remember when I first started
• 1:06:09
  my podcast I once I Realized like, okay, we have a rhythm.
• 1:06:13
  Now, this is what's involved and we're going to keep doing this
• 1:06:16
  and I might do, you know what I love interviewing people.
• 1:06:20
  I love getting to know people. I love talking in this manner,
• 1:06:24
  you know. So, yeah, I will keep doing it
• 1:06:27
  but that and ask the, the important thing is you got to be
• 1:06:31
  willing to put the work in at all times.
• 1:06:35
  I suppose you've got to be really passionate about, which
• 1:06:37
  is again, bring it back to you, why I'm so proud of you for
• 1:06:40
  doing what you've done with. Aims to better because I think
• 1:06:42
  it's really good to be like, passionate about what you do and
• 1:06:45
  fully invested in it and that's reflective in your work.
• 1:06:48
  I think also just just this is a completely different left-field.
• 1:06:53
  Question when I was writing this, I find this funny so
• 1:06:58
  you're a family man but I was going to write Family Guy for
• 1:07:01
  some reason. Yeah, he's a family guy.
• 1:07:06
  I don't want to go into too personal, but I do think that
• 1:07:09
  this is amazing. It did blow me in Jackoway when
• 1:07:12
  we first found out about this. So you're married with kids, you
• 1:07:16
  know, full-time work and everything.
• 1:07:18
  Obviously your life has changed a lot over this past year.
• 1:07:20
  Now you're doing games development full-time but it
• 1:07:24
  blows my mind that you're able to manage all of this stuff.
• 1:07:29
  How on Earth do you find the time to do all of this?
• 1:07:32
  Like, just how what's the secret I guess?
• 1:07:38
  There's no real secret. I mean I was very fortunate.
• 1:07:41
  From my early life to have a very good job.
• 1:07:45
  When I met my wife, you know, we'd saved and say, we bought
• 1:07:48
  our house. Congrats, you know, we save
• 1:07:52
  money and it was just one of those things where we were like,
• 1:07:59
  you know, she knows me. I want to do something with my
• 1:08:02
  life, you know. I want to make stuff that people
• 1:08:04
  aren't going to be like not necessarily remembered for, but,
• 1:08:07
  you know, it's just one of those things that it's It's where I
• 1:08:12
  kind of made the decision to go. I'm going to quit my job.
• 1:08:15
  I'm going to study something. I want to learn something new,
• 1:08:18
  something meaningful. So at the moment, obviously I'm
• 1:08:22
  just putting my heart and soul into this and I'm living off
• 1:08:26
  savings. That we've saved up for a few
• 1:08:28
  years. Obviously, we had the house
• 1:08:29
  anyway, so I guess it's just one of those things where I would
• 1:08:34
  like said I'm like, I'm in a fortunate position that.
• 1:08:36
  I'm now a stay-at-home dad, but I also get to kind of work from
• 1:08:39
  home if that makes sense. Some people might call it work,
• 1:08:43
  but, you know, it's part of, you know, building myself up and,
• 1:08:48
  you know, doing those sort of things.
• 1:08:49
  So, I do pretty much the school runs.
• 1:08:52
  Now, you know, I watch my youngest daughter Ava, who's to
• 1:08:56
  during the day when she has a nap, I, you know, I'll do some
• 1:08:59
  work. I'll do working evenings, I'll
• 1:09:01
  get up at 5:00 in the morning. I'll do some work in the morning
• 1:09:03
  before everyone else gets up, my wife, works part-time, you know,
• 1:09:07
  so she brings in a little bit of money that helps, you know, with
• 1:09:10
  you know. Taking the burden off of savings
• 1:09:12
  and stuff, but it's so, you know what I mean?
• 1:09:14
  It's good because she comes home now.
• 1:09:16
  She doesn't have to do anything. It's already done when she gets
• 1:09:19
  home, so it's just, it just works.
• 1:09:22
  I guess an obviously whip with the pandemic sort of thing.
• 1:09:24
  I don't have anyone or need to go anywhere.
• 1:09:29
  I just, I'm safe in my house and fair play mate.
• 1:09:35
  Well done, well done, yeah, let's move it forward.
• 1:09:39
  What are the biggest challenges? Involved with games development.
• 1:09:45
  I'd say the biggest sort of challenging games development
• 1:09:48
  is, you know, is going to be the person that's actually making
• 1:09:53
  them. I'd say that nine times out of
• 1:09:55
  ten whenever I've started making a game.
• 1:09:57
  You know the biggest challenges you know, is, is me, you know,
• 1:10:03
  and I'm not sure if it's going to be the same sort of thing for
• 1:10:06
  everyone but you kind of It kind of goes back to what I was
• 1:10:08
  saying earlier. You know, like you'll start
• 1:10:10
  making something after you've submitted plans ER you know, I
• 1:10:13
  don't like that. Or something doesn't go the way
• 1:10:15
  you want it to and then you have to sort of like shelf it or just
• 1:10:19
  completely restart, you know, from scratch.
• 1:10:22
  I've had to restart projects from scratch a couple of time.
• 1:10:24
  Well it's a couple of times a few Fair time few times now and
• 1:10:27
  so you kind of get it right on perfect and that can be very
• 1:10:30
  frustrating. I wouldn't say time is any sort
• 1:10:33
  of challenge because obviously when you're kind of work like I
• 1:10:35
  said earlier you've got really node sort of time constraints.
• 1:10:39
  I think a lot of the time when you kind of get into game
• 1:10:43
  development you have Some sort of passion or, you know,
• 1:10:46
  interesting games in general. I mean, if you didn't, then it's
• 1:10:50
  kind of weird, right? But there's probably a lot of
• 1:10:53
  things that you've experienced when playing games that you
• 1:10:56
  think are, how cool would that be to do and then you can't
• 1:10:59
  quite get it right, or you want to do something.
• 1:11:03
  And the way that sort of AAA is moving, there's different to
• 1:11:06
  Indie Studios, is they do a lot of motion capture and stuff like
• 1:11:10
  that, you know? So they can get these really
• 1:11:12
  realistic looking animations. Characters interact with
• 1:11:16
  everyone. They've got that whole 3D
• 1:11:17
  scanning thing and you know that's, it's very, very
• 1:11:20
  expensive. So, those sort of big stravagant
• 1:11:24
  set pieces are very sort of hard to kind of do in Indie Games.
• 1:11:29
  You know? All they require a like, a lot
• 1:11:30
  of time, you might spend months working on just like one scene
• 1:11:34
  of your game, and, you know, and then it doesn't even look, even
• 1:11:38
  remotely close to what you were trying to do.
• 1:11:40
  So, it can be quite frustrating in that sort of thing that you
• 1:11:42
  had these big Grand. So ideas and they just don't pan
• 1:11:46
  out and you can kind of get a block, do you know?
• 1:11:49
  Really do motivated by that but you just got to keep going, keep
• 1:11:53
  learning, keep doing these things.
• 1:11:54
  There's some really talented indeed herbs out there that I
• 1:11:57
  like just complete solo people that are making some really,
• 1:12:01
  really extravagant stuff that you would.
• 1:12:03
  You would look at and you've go You know, that's a PS5 game or
• 1:12:07
  that's this game, or this is a, you know, this come from a
• 1:12:09
  really talented studio and it's like, note this one guy and
• 1:12:13
  yeah, it's really cool. It's for sure, man.
• 1:12:17
  Yes, sir. Same question.
• 1:12:18
  But what are the biggest challenges involved with running
• 1:12:21
  a successful twitch stream because obviously you've made it
• 1:12:23
  to Twitch affiliate something that has eluded me.
• 1:12:27
  Ever since I started in March, just, I can't get it for some
• 1:12:30
  reason, but you've done it. But more importantly, it's not
• 1:12:35
  just about Numbers. It's more about you know, the
• 1:12:37
  content you put forward and the community and everything.
• 1:12:39
  So it's so what would you say are the biggest challenges
• 1:12:42
  involved with with with making successful?
• 1:12:45
  Yeah. So I think the biggest challenge
• 1:12:48
  with making it successful and I remember talking to a couple of
• 1:12:51
  people about this is you may sort of start off thinking, you
• 1:12:56
  can just stream whatever the hell you want to stream and
• 1:12:58
  people are going to swing by it, right.
• 1:13:01
  There's a there's a website I use called twitch strike and it
• 1:13:05
  basically Basically tells you what the top 5% of plane,
• 1:13:09
  generally everyone at the moment is playing Among Us.
• 1:13:12
  Yes, because, you know, I mean it's like this game came out in
• 1:13:15
  2018. Why all of a sudden is
• 1:13:17
  interesting now, you know, I think, yeah, I played it back in
• 1:13:21
  the day, you know, and it's like one of those things.
• 1:13:22
  So anyway, has it changed at all in those?
• 1:13:25
  Oh no, it's the same girl. Honestly, the guy still gives it
• 1:13:28
  away for free on IOS and Android like, you know, I bet he's
• 1:13:32
  kicking himself now but it's just, it's Is that thing?
• 1:13:36
  That as much as it, pains me to say it, you have very little
• 1:13:42
  creative freedom. I feel like one switch.
• 1:13:44
  If that's what your goal is at the beginning.
• 1:13:47
  You want to look at these sort of obscure games that maybe not
• 1:13:51
  really anybody's playing, and you start with those because
• 1:13:54
  they're the ones that don't really have an audience.
• 1:13:55
  So when people go and they go, oh, so it's and then they watch,
• 1:13:58
  you know, if someone's playing among us and you're streaming
• 1:14:01
  Among Us, you are probably not going to go very far at all.
• 1:14:05
  Because you know, they've got people like jacksepticeye.
• 1:14:08
  PewDiePie, Markiplier, all the big boys are playing at John
• 1:14:11
  Wolfe. You know, those sort of people
• 1:14:12
  are playing it. So should trust me, don't don't
• 1:14:15
  even bother, right? So look at twitch strike, it
• 1:14:18
  will basically tell you what to string and to just sort of like
• 1:14:21
  make a success out of it. With me, it was classic retro.
• 1:14:26
  Games is what kind of got me so quick to Twitch affiliate, you
• 1:14:29
  know, and that's what I'm doing but biggest, but the biggest
• 1:14:34
  thing as Which I learned in terms of like if you want to
• 1:14:37
  recipes for success is networking.
• 1:14:40
  Mmm, join a bunch of people. Join us of servers people that
• 1:14:44
  love to stream. Hang out with them, get to know
• 1:14:46
  them if they've got a really good community that Community
• 1:14:49
  you know and you you know in with them they'll come and
• 1:14:52
  they'll watch you and stuff. I remember you know, one of my
• 1:14:55
  more successful streams are what was it?
• 1:14:59
  I got like, I don't know how many views it was at the slight
• 1:15:02
  live. People chance me up and I just
• 1:15:04
  couldn't keep up. But it was somewhat, it was it
• 1:15:06
  was like nearly 50 something people you know it was it was
• 1:15:09
  watching sort of thing and that pushed my average for the roof,
• 1:15:12
  you know. And got me there, I'd say my
• 1:15:14
  average was already good and I would have made affiliate
• 1:15:16
  without it, but it was one of those things that kind of like
• 1:15:19
  really pushed it over because the next step to Twitch partner
• 1:15:22
  is like, you have to have an average of 75 use.
• 1:15:25
  So it's like really, really hard.
• 1:15:27
  And that's when you get like the big, the big money checks from
• 1:15:29
  twitch themselves, you know, instead of just the donations
• 1:15:31
  from affiliate. But if it's something you're
• 1:15:35
  interested, In definitely community.
• 1:15:36
  Building is one of the biggest things I could, so I would
• 1:15:38
  suggest you do, you know, switches definitely becoming one
• 1:15:41
  of those platforms where there's just so much going for it right
• 1:15:44
  now. Yeah, it's a lot of different
• 1:15:46
  ways that you can interact with people, you know, that you like
• 1:15:49
  and yeah, definitely go for that sort of stuff.
• 1:15:53
  Absolutely. I mean you're right about that
• 1:15:55
  as well. I've had like a few instances, I
• 1:15:57
  had one recently where because I do a lot of like classic retro,
• 1:16:01
  Pokemon staff and I'm like true just in general, that's kind of
• 1:16:04
  my thing. And I was just doing a let's
• 1:16:08
  play series which I'm still doing.
• 1:16:11
  And yeah, one day just randomly got raided and got like, yes, up
• 1:16:17
  to about 30. People push my average up but
• 1:16:20
  then I had to work because I haven't streamed in so long.
• 1:16:23
  Yeah. On the hours and the days and
• 1:16:25
  stuff. So, I'm trying to stream as much
• 1:16:27
  as I can now and being consistent.
• 1:16:29
  And yeah, because it's not right for that sort of thing.
• 1:16:32
  Yeah. Like I felt like I wasn't Ready.
• 1:16:35
  I couldn't really claim to be a streamer anymore, because I took
• 1:16:38
  a close to two months break, but when I came back, I wanted to,
• 1:16:44
  like, I had a vision and now I'm doing it regularly and enjoying
• 1:16:47
  it, but I will say that it is very tough when you're starting
• 1:16:51
  out. Like, I, I think I've done,
• 1:16:55
  Somewhere in the region of like hundred hundred and fifty
• 1:16:58
  streams since March also. I think about hundred of which
• 1:17:03
  give or take maybe a bit less are actually documented on
• 1:17:07
  YouTube. Basically the point being that
• 1:17:10
  many of that the majority of them are like one viewer or
• 1:17:14
  nothing but everyone that I've spoken to all the top streamers
• 1:17:21
  seem to say the same thing that, you know, that's how you start
• 1:17:23
  and you just have to roll with it and keep Trying and keep
• 1:17:25
  trying, keep trying and never give up.
• 1:17:27
  But I mean, I think it helps if you kind of, you know, you have
• 1:17:32
  a plan for it. Like, for me, I always, you
• 1:17:35
  know, put my stuff on my second Channel, as gaming content,
• 1:17:39
  because my second channel is now gaming and Vlogs, just, you
• 1:17:44
  know, and that works and so I'm not as bothered.
• 1:17:48
  Now, if you know, I don't get anyone in the Stream because I
• 1:17:51
  just focus on making the video for YouTube, which works.
• 1:17:55
  And then, yeah, you know, if people join great, it gets
• 1:17:59
  really good if they don't know. What is the thing to bear in
• 1:18:04
  mind, though? Is that when you do make
• 1:18:06
  affiliate yeah you won't be able to put them on YouTube.
• 1:18:10
  Really. Yeah.
• 1:18:11
  They'll take away your affiliation because when you're
• 1:18:14
  an affiliate you are basically letting twitch.
• 1:18:18
  They are the owner don't know if they're like the exclusive
• 1:18:21
  provider of that video. The way they look at it is that
• 1:18:23
  your that popular enough that it directs traffic to that website
• 1:18:27
  so they don't want to take that traffic away.
• 1:18:29
  So if you're putting your stuff on YouTube as well it's happened
• 1:18:33
  to a friend of mine actually. He was streaming and putting the
• 1:18:35
  videos. Then on the twin.
• 1:18:36
  A Joan took his affiliation away.
• 1:18:39
  What about Eclipse installed, eclipse.
• 1:18:44
  The something you might have to look into.
• 1:18:45
  I wouldn't necessarily know about Clips but yeah you have to
• 1:18:48
  if you're putting the whole thing.
• 1:18:53
  As far as I'm at, well for a fact, if you're putting the
• 1:18:55
  whole thing on there, they will, they will look at it and you'll
• 1:18:57
  Court. I guess you will.
• 1:18:58
  They will take your affiliation away.
• 1:19:00
  That's why when you also make affiliate you lose the ability
• 1:19:02
  to do multi-stream. Interesting.
• 1:19:07
  Yeah you must be able to do Clips that's because I've seen
• 1:19:10
  all the major YouTubers do it. Yeah.
• 1:19:12
  You might you might be able to do obviously if they're
• 1:19:15
  streaming to YouTube, I guess that they can probably put it
• 1:19:18
  onto on YouTube, but unless it's somebody that's different and
• 1:19:22
  that's Bring it or you create a second Channel or I YouTube
• 1:19:26
  channel. That's clearly.
• 1:19:28
  Not you, if you see what I'm saying, like, put jacko's face
• 1:19:31
  on it on, something like that. And then, just start left
• 1:19:32
  Eclipse. Well, I would think that they
• 1:19:35
  would be okay with it because it's like driving traffic to the
• 1:19:38
  stream. So it's like, you know, you
• 1:19:39
  watch the clips, then you go to watch the full streams on
• 1:19:42
  Twitch. And to be fair, you could
• 1:19:44
  probably put like the little thing in here like watch this
• 1:19:46
  full episode here, you know? Yeah, that I would assume that
• 1:19:49
  Clinton find the whole thing. Here is a definite No-No that
• 1:19:52
  Much. But it makes sense though, I
• 1:19:56
  mean, cuz right now obviously my Foolish Dreams are obviously
• 1:20:00
  available on Twitch as well. I figured out how to finally do
• 1:20:03
  that but they're only available flight 14 days which is why I
• 1:20:08
  make them available on YouTube but obviously if I make
• 1:20:10
  affiliate then that's fine. I'll just do clips on YouTube
• 1:20:14
  which clicks do better. Anyway.
• 1:20:16
  I mean, I think the, the twitch streams is more of a kind of
• 1:20:21
  like convenience factor for Might it's more intended for my
• 1:20:24
  twitch viewers. If they miss a stream, they go
• 1:20:26
  to YouTube. But you know, since there's the
• 1:20:29
  14-day rule, if I do have a regular audience, they're going
• 1:20:32
  to catch on Twitch anyway. Yeah, yeah anyway, sorry, that
• 1:20:36
  was me into tangent my own crap. Bring it back to you.
• 1:20:41
  So, same question again, but with YouTube, what the biggest
• 1:20:44
  challenges involved with being successful, YouTube content
• 1:20:47
  creator, Well, I wouldn't necessarily know too much
• 1:20:56
  because obviously I wouldn't consider myself successful in
• 1:20:58
  that area. But I think you've done pretty
• 1:21:01
  well on YouTube. I would say the challenges
• 1:21:05
  especially now for me is just finding the time to do it.
• 1:21:09
  You know, there's other stuff that I want to do and that I'm
• 1:21:14
  excited to do and the determination.
• 1:21:17
  And, you know, I just kind of think about Do I want to do a
• 1:21:19
  video? Yeah, makes me excited to make a
• 1:21:29
  video. Maybe about the game side of
• 1:21:31
  things. Like, you know, I'm working on
• 1:21:33
  this, you know, he's a sneak peek that kind of thing, that
• 1:21:35
  would probably be more of it. But I would say, it's definitely
• 1:21:38
  the effort and the time that you put into these sort of things,
• 1:21:41
  you know. No, you don't.
• 1:21:45
  There's not like a recipe for Success.
• 1:21:47
  There's there's not like a template Kind of thing.
• 1:21:49
  I follow, I play a game I react to it, you know, sort of like
• 1:21:52
  live and then, you know, you just kind of put it out into the
• 1:21:56
  wild. It's just one of those things.
• 1:21:59
  I just find that. It's so thing for me now, it's
• 1:22:02
  not like demotivating, but just thinking about the facts that
• 1:22:06
  I've been got to sort of like Judy overlays, you know, render
• 1:22:11
  it all, do the tags on my God, the tags and then, yeah, that's
• 1:22:18
  the worst part. Me it's not even I don't mind
• 1:22:20
  clipping it. You like the pop.
• 1:22:22
  For instance, if you take the podcast, don't mind the clips,
• 1:22:25
  you know, it's kind of interesting to watch it back
• 1:22:27
  sometimes you're like, oh yeah, I missed that in the course of
• 1:22:29
  whatever, but the actual YouTube uploading clipping, just all
• 1:22:36
  that writing of stuff. That's so tedious, man.
• 1:22:39
  Yeah, I wish I could have someone do do do that for me.
• 1:22:57
  It's probably not going to be so it will just write the AI
• 1:23:09
  watches your video and goes oh here's the tags that you will
• 1:23:12
  need to be successful and it tells you how many hits those
• 1:23:15
  people, you know, sort of search for.
• 1:23:18
  So. You know, there's this really
• 1:23:20
  cool, easy one, and you literally, then just click the
• 1:23:22
  tag and it automatically paste it in.
• 1:23:24
  So it's literally just a few button clicks.
• 1:23:25
  I think I've already got that but for the free version because
• 1:23:28
  I've got this, it gives you three tags for free.
• 1:23:31
  Yeah, but two buddies is probably a good idea.
• 1:23:35
  If if anyone's interested in sort of thing like that but I
• 1:23:38
  don't do it purely because again, like I said, it's just
• 1:23:40
  the whole motivation sort of thing for me right now is just
• 1:23:43
  it's just not their kind of thing, you know?
• 1:23:46
  And I feel like, you know, As much as I do love indie games.
• 1:23:50
  And, you know, like you said earlier, I played a lot of video
• 1:23:52
  Series games now that I'm kind of working on those games with
• 1:23:55
  him. There's really no point me
• 1:23:57
  playing them because what would I react to?
• 1:23:59
  I believe all this bits coming up, you know.
• 1:24:01
  And it's like yeah, that's that's that's again.
• 1:24:04
  One of the reasons why I asked you before about where your
• 1:24:06
  YouTube is headed because I felt like once you started doing the
• 1:24:08
  game's development. Yeah.
• 1:24:10
  Your you YouTube's going to shift then?
• 1:24:12
  I mean because it may change as you said like tight time is
• 1:24:15
  everything like I found now with what I do.
• 1:24:19
  There is certain amount of time for certain things and yeah, I
• 1:24:22
  could do way more if I wanted to, but I think that, you know,
• 1:24:25
  there is such a thing as like Overkill and you know, you got
• 1:24:29
  to pay attention to that. And now now for instance, with
• 1:24:33
  my main Channel and second Channel, just to give a quick
• 1:24:35
  example, like it's like podcast is the week by week stuff and
• 1:24:39
  then you know, extras sometimes in a week but mostly on
• 1:24:43
  weekends. So there's like a natural kind
• 1:24:45
  of Janome and like for instance on my main Channel, I don't
• 1:24:48
  think I've I've got an upload for the next like three or four
• 1:24:50
  days, but for the first time I wasn't worried about that.
• 1:24:53
  I was like, you know what, there's enough, there's enough
• 1:24:55
  on here. It's fine.
• 1:24:57
  There's no need to get concerned about this.
• 1:24:59
  And on the side note, this is one of the reasons why it's
• 1:25:03
  called to have two channels because if you feel like I'm not
• 1:25:06
  uploading enough but I really want to upload dump it on the
• 1:25:09
  second Channel, just dump it. On the second Channel have like
• 1:25:13
  cheat. Your second channel is that like
• 1:25:15
  treat it seriously but treat it as like a kind of, you know,
• 1:25:18
  like Just put it over the fuck I want here.
• 1:25:21
  Main channel is a premium content and that's that's the
• 1:25:26
  way I kind of see it. But you know, I was funny I see
• 1:25:31
  I remarked in one of my videos recently that I even bothered to
• 1:25:34
  do thumbnail for one of my second Channel videos and I
• 1:25:38
  never normally bother, but it's like, I don't know, I think the
• 1:25:45
  time factor is way more important than people realize
• 1:25:47
  and you know, I've often thought about how everyone does a lot
• 1:25:54
  when they first start out but as they get more and more
• 1:25:56
  successful, they have less and less time.
• 1:25:58
  And you know, like commitments take up certain things and so
• 1:26:02
  your tightly, your time is always being compromised just by
• 1:26:06
  life. So you've got to if YouTube got
• 1:26:08
  always be of that thing, evolving and stuff.
• 1:26:11
  With that being said, I suppose it depends because I see people
• 1:26:13
  like PewDiePie and any fuck. He uploads more than I do.
• 1:26:17
  I mean, I know, he's probably got team.
• 1:26:19
  The Forum but like area even. So like, you know, maybe they're
• 1:26:22
  doing the clips and stuff at him, but he still streaming like
• 1:26:24
  every day doing multiple things and it baffles my mind because a
• 1:26:30
  lot of the time, you know, I'm uploading on two channels
• 1:26:33
  sometimes twice a day or more, which is just how it happens.
• 1:26:37
  Sometimes. But it's like I don't know, I
• 1:26:42
  suppose it depends on the work ethic of the person, really and
• 1:26:45
  what they're doing and yeah, it really depends everyone.
• 1:26:48
  Everyone's so different but yeah.
• 1:26:52
  Thanks. Thanks very much for sharing
• 1:26:53
  that man. I do appreciate it during
• 1:26:55
  everything to a close for today as a final question.
• 1:26:59
  Do you have other than the projects you've already
• 1:27:01
  discussed any other upcoming projects or maybe some final
• 1:27:05
  thoughts that you'd like to share with us?
• 1:27:08
  Hmm I'd say the only issue Upcoming projects that would
• 1:27:12
  have that's not game development.
• 1:27:18
  Sort of derived is probably got a second album coming out that
• 1:27:21
  will be going on Soundcloud and that will be like a mixture of
• 1:27:26
  all the different sort of Music. I've been making over the last
• 1:27:29
  few months for late games and stuff.
• 1:27:30
  And so, yeah, a lot unheard of stuff.
• 1:27:33
  They'll be going on there. So, yeah, because your first
• 1:27:37
  one, first album was kind of can hard and how to describe the
• 1:27:42
  color 80s kind of Trance that yeah retro wave.
• 1:27:46
  Yeah. I love that kind of music and I
• 1:27:49
  loved it straight away as I this is excellent.
• 1:27:51
  But yeah, then you didn't do anything for ages.
• 1:27:53
  And I was like well this time. But yeah that's that's good.
• 1:27:56
  That's good to hear man. I can't wait to hear and it
• 1:27:58
  makes sense as well for what you're doing like having your
• 1:28:00
  gaming music as I imagine you're doing more and more of those as
• 1:28:05
  time progresses. And obviously if certain games
• 1:28:07
  take off then people are going to want to hear like and have
• 1:28:10
  Soundtracks because often the soundtrack kind of is the game
• 1:28:14
  or you know what I mean? Like for instance your most
• 1:28:16
  recent game Hell's Gate right off the bat has some like really
• 1:28:20
  excellent like heavy metal music and it's like immediately sets
• 1:28:23
  the tone for it. Yeah.
• 1:28:26
  Easy one. Thanks man.
• 1:28:29
  Listen. Thank you very much for agreeing
• 1:28:31
  to be on the podcast. I'm glad to finally have you
• 1:28:34
  because I've been trying to get you and Jacqueline here for so
• 1:28:37
  long. I've been trying to do this
• 1:28:39
  video with you just I think, since we met to be honest, once
• 1:28:42
  I find out, you did all this cool stuff was like, I got to do
• 1:28:45
  something with this guy. It's finally good to kind of
• 1:28:50
  explore everything in detail and and obviously just to talk to
• 1:28:53
  you again in general, it's nice to see you and see that you're
• 1:28:56
  doing well. So yeah, thank you very much for
• 1:29:00
  being on the podcast and to everyone watching or listening
• 1:29:04
  to the Christian we've podcast. I do hope you're enjoying it so
• 1:29:07
  far as always I say if you'd like to appear on the public
• 1:29:10
  Cost as a guest. Or, you know, if you'd like to
• 1:29:13
  suggest some sort of topic that you'd like to hear, let me know,
• 1:29:17
  you know, we're on Twitter where, you know, you not just on
• 1:29:21
  my personal accounts but we now have official Twitter accounts,
• 1:29:25
  Instagram accounts, everything this gol we have Discord now.
• 1:29:29
  So, yeah, let me know if you're interested in that, if you've
• 1:29:32
  got ideas, let me know, just throw it my way.
• 1:29:35
  I'm all is, I would love to know and yeah, thank you very much
• 1:29:39
  for listening and And until next time, peace out.
• 1:29:42
  One love. I'll see you in the next one.