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Dan Clark: The Science of Focus · The Daily Writer

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, my friend, and welcome to the Saturday edition of the Daily Rider Podcast.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Each weekday we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great rider creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Here on the weekend editions, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with writers, as well as teaching that helps us apply what we're learning.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: For more, you can visit us at dailyriderlife.com.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to start out this episode with a very simple question for you, and it's this Do you have trouble focusing and getting your writing done?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if so, it's a common problem that almost all writers, including me, face at times.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And on today's episode, we're going to explore how to focus and be more productive with your writing using cutting-edge science.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: My guest is Dan Clark, the CEO of Brain.fm, a company that takes a science-first approach to creating music that sounds and affects you differently than anything you've ever heard.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Dan originally worked as a website and app developer, but decided to switch careers from building an advertising agency when he came across Brain.fm.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: He bought an account in his first session and was so excited after just a week of use, he was determined to be a part of the company.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: He called them 12 times until he finally got a job and he worked the first month for free.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward, and now Dan is the CEO of Brain.fm and he was named one of Forbes 30 under 30 in 2019.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Dan is always excited about how technology can change the world.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And in this conversation, Dan shares the science of Brain.fm, how the music is created, and why it helps you focus.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now I gotta tell you, I've been using Brain.fm for gosh, probably three or four months now on almost a daily basis.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it has absolutely helped my focus and productivity.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: This was a super fascinating conversation.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And after you hear it, I'm sure that you will want to redeem your free one-month subscription to Brain.fm.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to tell you that I've actually have a paid subscription.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: I did not get this for free.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I just paid for a year of it and I use it constantly.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just being totally honest with you.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really love this product.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as you know, by the way, I only promote stuff here in the podcast that I really believe in.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't promote stuff very often, uh, honestly, because that there's not that many tools that I use and just and love to the extent that I want to help promote them.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: But Brain.fm is absolutely one of those things.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I was so excited to get to talk to the CEO of this amazing company.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, here is my conversation with Dan Clark.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Dan, welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is great to meet you and so glad that we could connect.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me here.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Excited to be here.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really glad that uh that one of your staff reached out to me a few weeks ago and said, hey, maybe Dan would be a fun guest for the podcast.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that she did because I've been using Brain FM for the last few weeks.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to say, I really, really like it.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is a great tool.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's different than the music that I have normally listened to for productivity.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it it really works.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess that's where the the they say the proof is in the pudding, so it works.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really thrilled that we could come and uh chat about your journey and some of the science behind this and productivity and all that good stuff.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm excited.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get started.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, can can you share with us how you got involved with Brain FM?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I know you were you're not the founder of the company, but you have a very interesting story of being a user first and then you know, and then running the whole shebang.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm super curious how that works.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, my background basically is actually in martial arts.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm circumblack.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was younger, I thought I was gonna open up my own martial arts school.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: The reason why is because we use martial arts as a vehicle to help people become their best version of themselves, um, from shy from shy, unconfident people to leaders.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in doing that, I actually started making websites for that martial arts school and then all of his friends, and I got peaked into technology.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I ended up not getting into martial or staying in martial arts and moving on into technology and really building businesses with technology um to accelerate their goals.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Started doing that, you know, over and over again, optimized for financial success, and um eventually hit this point where I realized that I actually was so far away from helping people that I was just kind of solving problems.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a near life and death situation that made me relook at things and say, hey, what matters?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I want to help people and I want to use technology to do that.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up leaving that company that was there and was actually on the lookout for things that could help people.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, didn't know what it was.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always been super conscious of my productivity, of my uh flow state, which we call it now, which I didn't know it back then, because I used to work and develop from 10 p.m.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: at night to 4 a.m.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: in the morning.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like four times a week.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was my magic flow.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I used to actually travel around the world.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: I go to Thailand because then I'd actually be able to have like a real life for uh a couple weeks before I got used to the time, and I come back, you know.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, I was always super sensitive to that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I've tried, you know, all these different kinds of nootropics, which are different kinds of vitamins and and and things you can take to, you know, help you.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, caffeine is one of them, it's a nootropic.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I used to try different kinds of tools, and I actually just in part of my trying things came across Brain FM.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I remember using it for my first time, and I was super skeptical, to be honest.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's music, you know, you've heard of binary beats or isochronic tones.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is probably the same thing.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I remember trying it, and my first session, taking off my headphones and going, wow, this is different.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and this is gonna change the world.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just want to be part of this company.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember trying to break it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd like to change my diet or I'd stay up all night.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And every time I put on focus music, it actually worked.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was convinced.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I called them up 12 times.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I said, hey, listen, I gotta help you guys, I gotta work for you.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and being a startup, they didn't really have the money.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I started working for free, actually.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and from free working and leading the tech team and development, um, ended up becoming CEO and actually buying the company.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely a different path than many, um, but it's really been connected to that martial arts start where we can use technology, which is usually not a good thing for productivity, the distractions that it creates, we can actually use it to help people um be their best self on demand and whatever that means for them.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's something that has uh really motivated me this whole time.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And especially as we're starting to scale and grow, um, how can how can we uh continue that vision that um that we have?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're set out to do.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that is so cool.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: You don't often hear of someone being a product user and then running the whole company and then buying the whole company.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I've never heard that before.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's just really fascinating.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't set out to do it.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was just a consequence of I think, you know, the vision of what needed to be done um and and about uh you know the the levels of what brainfm needed.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm really excited to to continue that um and and what we're about what we're doing now and what we're about to do in the future.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now let me share with you my experience with using now.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is a stupid question.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is the proper way to say it is a brain FM or brain dot fm?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh whatever you prefer.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: We we internally say brain.fm.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay uh but but either way, if people people can tell.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, names are important, so I always like to get the names of things right.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: So my experience with using with using this the last few weeks.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll share with you what I have normally used and then somehow how uh brain.fm is different.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So what I typically use for focused music is either uh there's a site called cop activity, which is like coffee shop noise.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but then I also have a playlist on Spotify that is just movie scores.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a musician, that's how I started out my career.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I find that music with lyrics or like stuff from the 80s or stuff that's like pop music, it's designed to engage you emotionally, and that is taking my emotions out of what I'm trying to work on.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I've noticed about Brain.fm is that, and I don't know why this works, but I'm super curious about this, is that somehow it it almost puts me in uh it puts me in a zone or puts me in almost a I don't want to use the word zombie because that has negative connotations, but it's like a focused some kind of state because it's not the kind of music that you would hear on the radio, but it's something it's something utterly different.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know why it works.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm hoping you can help me understand why this is having the effect that it's having on me and and other users.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so before I do that, was the word you're looking for almost like a flow state?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or would you call it something?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, focus flow states, something where it's it's different than listening to regular music.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to go into that.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start from the beginning, beginning.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So Brain FM, what we're doing is we create functional music um that's specifically designed to help you switch from one state to another, right?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So in a resting state into focus or from really focused into relax or whatever we may do.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's really helped people to focus, relax, and sleep.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the way we do that is um we add amplitude modulations to music or basically these specific uh uh rhythms or rhythmic pulses.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh upon listening to that music, it basically aligns the functional networks of your brain to communicate more effectively.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the the way that's that we call that is something called neural phase locking or um you know modulation.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um it works on principles of entrainment in your brain.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and this is specifically different than some of the other things that I was talking about, like binaural beats or isochronic tones, you may have heard of.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and what we're doing is in binary beats, for users that haven't heard about that, it's basically playing like one tone in one ear and one in the other.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And in your spinal call or your um brain stem, those uh frequencies combine together and create um an amplitude modulation, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but because it's in your in your brain stem, it's not the same resolution as directly entraining the higher functions of your brain, like your prefrontal cortex.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're doing through um amplitude modulation is we're able to directly entrain the um higher regions of your brain to be able to help them transition from one mental state to another.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is this is so all of our patents are on this, and this is uh really bleeding edge technology that we basically productize into a consumer app.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that there's a difference when you are hearing from users?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a difference between people who listen to Brain FM through speakers versus headphones?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we actually recommend, especially for focus, um, because they're all different speeds, and we can go into that in a second, um, to have headphones on for focus because of those amplitude modulations.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you listen to it uh the the music really closely, um you'll hear like almost like a pulsing.
• 12:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if you think about it, our brains, and this isn't exactly the neuroscience, um, but you can kind of get a sense for it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: If we're in a resting state, let's say your brain is oscillating at a certain frequency.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now, again, your brain doesn't really, it has all these different regions and stuff, but just for simplicity, and if you're focusing, you have to be in this sweet spot of it moving faster.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: But if it starts moving too fast, then you're actually just distracted, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: So the difference between being in that focus like flow state is actually not being bored, but also not being too stimulated where you're distracted and thinking about a bunch of things.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in comparison, if you listen to a relaxed music or a sleep, you'll hear the same pulse, but it's much slower.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're trying to do is take you from a resting state or a higher, faster state and slowing down your oscillations of the brain.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you enter relaxation or even slower, which is um our our sleep music.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, these are in different kinds of almost like um these brain uh uh activities, you know, known as like theta waves or brain waves, theta waves, um, delta, you know, all those other ones.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but basically what we're doing is is allowing you to listen to this and it's almost disguised in the music.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we have um thousands of different hours of music, we have different genres, but the the thing that's actually helping you stay in focus is these higher um modulations.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And by listening to headphones, it's directly going into your ear rather than bouncing off all the things in the room from your speakers that could muffle the experience.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what we're doing with all of our music is it's scientifically tested and validated.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we are doing scientific studies with EEG, um, which is the thing that measures the electrical impulses off of your brain, fMRI, which is reading blood flow, um, and we're also having people play video games.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're comparing, you know, brain FM music with our tech, without our tech, uh also with other kinds of music like uh uh different soundtracks, um, like you're saying.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's some really interesting things and comparisons um that we found to be able to help people dive into focus.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we can talk about some of the cinematic things that you found yourself.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love the cinematic.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'd have to pull it up here real quick.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, do I have a pull it up here?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh somewhere, yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not anyway, I don't want to waste your time looking for it, but I love the cinematic one.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I really like the drone as well.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really different than the cinematic.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the then the what I call the channel.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the right way to refer to it?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have different kinds of genres of music.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what one of the things that we're doing is again trying to make it genre agnostic.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you just find genres that you really like.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I know you started the the conversation saying that normally your focus music is X, Y, and Z.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's actually because uh some of the things that you were mentioning is are some of the knobs that we've been able to find.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we have these patents and this these uh different ways to incorporate um these different modulations into our music, but additionally, there's other almost rules that we found that help people focus more.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: So aside from our core technology, there's things like not having lyrics, because lyrics actually distract you, right?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're even if you're ignoring them, you're taking some mental energy and blocking them out.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, other things called salience, which is actually um the the difference in um in sound.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: So a loud bang is a huge salience event.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's actually why um a lot of cinematic scoring uh is is is is actually really close to some of the first starting principles of Brain FM, because it's not meant to distract you from what's going on on the screen, you know?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're doing is we basically find all of these different rule sets.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we compose our music in-house with in-house composers that are that know about that.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we're applying that technology on top or into the music, which allows us to get a measured result and help people, you know, get into the zone.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't there a difference between writers who are getting into their zone and let's say athletes or musicians or other kinds of people, other kind of kinds of artists who need to get into a flow state?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any kind of a qualitative difference between those flow states?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or basically, is it the same no matter what kind of thing you need to get into a flow state for?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, really, really good question.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say that um it's all different and also similar at the same time, which I guess is a non-answer.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it really depends on it.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on you, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it depends on the activity that you're doing.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So in our focus category specifically, where we're trying to help people enter that flow state, we actually divide it into three different areas, um, deep work, creativity, and learning.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the especially our new products that were coming out, some of our new um our upgraded uh website as well as our apps kind of reflect this.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it really depends what work you're doing.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you think about it, um, there's a small difference between deep work, like banging through a spreadsheet, right, of financial and being an accountant almost.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then also being somewhat introspective or or um, you know, creative on how can I create a theme.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and I would say, even for writers, there's probably a difference between someone that's writing fiction and nonfiction, right?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things I would say is for someone trying to get into that, what we really try to do is understand what activity someone is doing.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then we go a step further and we can actually change this the power level of that that brain FM science or those modulations in the music.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we do that called uh through a power level in the app.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you can actually pick, okay, based on my neurodiversity, um, based on, you know, uh uh, you know, if you have like so what happens is people are neurodiverse.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: So every every brain is similar, but they're also unique and different.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And some people are closer to ADHD or further away, right?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's not one zero or or one.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and right now what happens is people can can experiment and find that out.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So they're using maybe creativity and they say, hey, I want a power level of one to be able to explore.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then some of our future products as we go, we're gonna start asking someone questionnaires and quizzes to be able to understand more about them and then actually personalize the experience so that we know, okay, this is your flow state music.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Every single time you come on, you got it.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and really um help them uh learn more about themselves as well as find exactly what they need.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a benefit whenever someone is using brain.fm to using the same the same music each time they're doing the same work?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it better to switch it up and just experiment?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or or does it just depend on the person?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: It really depends on the person.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um when you add the same music, um, you can get other psychological effects um such as triggering and other things.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, did I lose you?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Can you still hear me?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, sorry.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I froze.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but anyway, so if you if you combo in um you know listening to the same music, you can get the trigger.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and a trigger is something known as if you uh drink coffee every day.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a Pablonian response.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've I've had friends that that whenever they want to get into really deep focus, they actually put mints in their mouth because it's a triggering effect that they ground to.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there could be other things there, but based on the science that we've seen, um, it's actually not the the music that you're listening to.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's that modulation that we're applying to the music, which is really triggering the flow state.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Man, this is also fascinating.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it it kind of is a little heartbreaking because I think about how much time I have probably wasted over my life just not being focused in my work.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And man, I think if this would have been around 25 years ago, I could have been so much further along in my life by now.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: If I would have only focused more.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if these kind of tools had been around, but but they weren't.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um but man, I just think writers who are young now, they have advantage, they can take advantage of all these really amazing tools like this one to help them really get focused and locked in.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and just to comment on that, it's actually only a consequence of technology that we can actually create this now.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: So one of that is is the understanding from neuroscience, right?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And now we we have really great evidence of what people's brains look like in focus, right?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: We have great fMRI imaging.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So the technology has on research has really grown to allow us to support this, but also um on how we create the music.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're creating music with those internal composers that we mentioned, but they're using smart creation tools.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you could call AI, that's really helping us build uh music that has not only music that you want to listen to, but it's also music that has these effects, right?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then finally, I think um, you know, with everyone having a smartphone in their pocket and everyone has noise canceling headphones, which I recommend.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um now you you actually can build your own cocoon, right?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all of these things that are overlapping that allow Brain FM to be here, where you know, I I wish 25 years ago Brain FM existed too, but but you know, right now we're finally able to do it.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And in the next three to five years.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're able to unlock even more with the new wearables coming out and all of these other things that will make the experience even better.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, before we wrap this up, I would love to hear about some of your own practices for productivity.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're running a company, you have a lot of things you're thinking about, a lot of things that you're responsible for.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I know there are times during the week and the day where you have to really get into your zone and focus.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the things that really are helping you right now with productivity?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great question.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, I'm a big believer in Brain FM.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I use Brain FM every single day.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: I am a very strong believer in habits and building habits that support us for the results that we want.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I would encourage anyone listening that doesn't have a successful habit system to start with that.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: My habit specifically is actually starting every single day with an iced coffee, right?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, drinking water, iced coffee, right?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And sitting down in front of my computer, I put brain FM creativity on, and I actually do a brain uh dump.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I open up a piece of paper on journal and I write down everything that's on my mind.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And this is something that allows me to just get all of the thoughts that invade my brain when I'm trying to work out and categorized, and then know that I don't have to remember them.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um then what I do is I switch into a sprint and I actually put 30 minutes, sometimes 60 minutes on the clock, and I will work on one activity for the entire time.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Anything comes up in my mind, I write it down on that piece of paper that I started earlier and I try to stay as focused as possible.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um obviously there's other things that I do during the day, but that's just one example of how I'm trying to create a healthy habit of performing.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually do that every single day, Monday through Friday, um, with taking the weekends off.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just that one, I think that one practice of doing something for 30 or 60 minutes that's really, really highly focused.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that can help a lot of writers because writing a book or writing stuff doesn't actually take that long when you just sit down and do it.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you can easily write 500 to a thousand words in an hour if you're really focused and you know what you want to say.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that I think that tip alone is really, really good.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think, you know, the what I encourage everyone to do too is find out what works for you.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm sure there's some writers that sit down for six hours and they plug away and they write their whole thing, but there may be other people that do it in, you know, 45 or one hour sprints and need to take breaks in between.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's something that people can experiment with, not only the type of focus music to play while they're doing it, but also maybe using relax or or maybe making sure you sleep better.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's all of these different sides of us that make us perform.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and you unfortunately can't just drink seven cups of coffee and and perform.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: You need to take care of yourself on the whole, the whole circle, you know, and and and and I think finding that out really um has allowed me to be, you know, my best self.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's fascinating because you mentioned the coffee, and uh I am notorious in my household for energy drinks, which is not a good thing, but you know, we all have our thing that we go to.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: There is a real tendency with writers and creative people and artists to self-destruct with, you know, with alcohol or addictions or habits or behavior that somehow damages their lives in some way.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like getting focused and using a product like Brain.fm can really help people to focus and get their work done without having to go to something like massive amounts of caffeine or other stimulants or other kinds of things that are helping them to ease the emotional pain of life.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like this this one thing is really about more than just productivity.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about your quality of life in many ways.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think humans, the only difference between humans now and 10,000 years ago is not biological.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually the tools that we have.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's the tools and you know, books are tools, right?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about it.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Brain FM is actually just another tool in your tool belt that you can use.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if I give that tool to a master carpenter or me, we're gonna build a different house, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I, you know, I really encourage people to find the best tools that they can use.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, some people are using energy drinks or whatever it may be, some good, some negative.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's about how can you perhaps replace or or actually um uh add another tool to your arsenal to get what you need.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe, maybe it's actually just realizing that like, you know, I the I need to relax.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I and and people are using, you know, substances or whatever to relax and they don't want to.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, they can try an alternative approach or maybe use less of them, um, you know, including energy drinks as a substance, you know.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, it's finding about what works for you, what you're looking for, and then and then trying something new.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I think a lot of people, um, when they find a new tool, um, it immediately becomes apparent and it's something that they can put in their arsenal and and use, you know, for long term.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Dan, this has been a blast.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know your time is valuable, so I don't want to don't want to keep you all day.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I do just want to take a second to acknowledge the awesome work that you're doing in the world.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I love brain.fm.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's wonderful.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've really enjoyed using it.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you are dedicating your your life and your time right now to something that is helping a lot of people.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just another random app or another this or that, uh lost among the sea of all the stuff we have available today.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it's something that is helping writers and creatives get their work done.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of value to that.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate you taking time to be on the show and just for doing awesome work.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's really fantastic.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me here.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, wasn't that a fun conversation?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I learned a ton and it really reinforced my desire to keep using brain.fm because as I mentioned earlier in the intro, it really has helped me.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And now that I have learned kind of the science behind this, or at least, you know, I'm not really a sciencey person, but uh now that I understand a bit more about it, it makes me want to dive into it and promote it even more.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: So my takeaway for this episode is this go to brain.fm.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's a link in the show notes, give it a try and see for yourself.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: It really does work.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have trouble focusing or are looking for something different to put on its kind of background noise while you're writing or when you're working, give it a try.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I promise you it's gonna be something a little different, but it's it's so cool because it's scientifically designed to help you focus.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just some random music on YouTube or on Spotify or wherever.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's specifically designed to help you get better results and be more productive.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: So give that a shot.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: And hey, before we go, I want to give a huge thank you to my special guest, Dan Clark.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Again, he's a CFO of this really successful company, so he's a super busy guy, and I really appreciated him taking time out to be a guest on this episode.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want to take a moment to let you know about our daily writer membership community.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the very best ways to develop better habits and impact more people's lives with your writing is to spend time around other successful writers.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're tired of feeling isolated and chasting success on your own, then I know you're gonna love the Daily Writer community.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: For years, I searched for the kind of writing community that I would want to join, but I could never find what I wanted, so I created my own.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the features include weekly writing sprints, monthly community calls, book discussions, calls with guest experts, and much more.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: For more info, you can visit dailywriterlife.comslash community.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, and I'll see you tomorrow.