Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #285 Maggie Freleng with Tammy Poole

Transcript

#285 Maggie Freleng with Tammy Poole · Wrongful Conviction

0:00
Speaker 1: A note for listeners, this episode contains discussion of suicide.
0:05
Speaker 1: Please listen with caution and care. So, Amanda, thank you
0:11
Speaker 1: for joining me. I want to introduce you to listeners
0:13
Speaker 1: who might not know who you are. You are a podcaster,
0:16
Speaker 1: You have a podcast with your husband called Labyrinth, and
0:18
Speaker 1: you are an ethical storyteller.
0:20
Speaker 2: Is how you like to refer to yourself.
0:22
Speaker 3: Yes, and for those who don't know, I also was
0:25
Speaker 3: wrongly convicted, which is how we know each other through.
0:28
Speaker 2: The Innocence Network.
0:29
Speaker 3: So it's great to see you again, Maggie, Amanda.
0:31
Speaker 1: When you look at wrongful convictions with women, what are
0:35
Speaker 1: maybe the three most common.
0:37
Speaker 2: Factors you see?
0:38
Speaker 3: So the vast majority of cases where women are wrongly
0:41
Speaker 3: convicted actually involve them be accused of a crime that
0:45
Speaker 3: never happened in the first place. What ultimately happens in
0:48
Speaker 3: a lot of these cases is women who are suddenly
0:51
Speaker 3: shocked by a tragic thing that happens to them feel
0:55
Speaker 3: a sense of guilt that is then utilized by the
0:58
Speaker 3: police to either coerce them to falsely confessing, or is
1:03
Speaker 3: used as a way to suggest that they are behaving
1:06
Speaker 3: like a guilty person. So someone who is experiencing grief
1:10
Speaker 3: or shock is told that they're not acting the way
1:13
Speaker 3: that a person is supposed to act in their situation.
1:17
Speaker 3: And there's also this assumption that we have that women,
1:20
Speaker 3: especially in the caretaking role, are somehow responsible when something
1:25
Speaker 3: tragic and unfortunate happens to someone who is in their
1:28
Speaker 3: care and we need to push back against those assumptions
1:32
Speaker 3: and narratives of the perfect mother and the perfect wife
1:35
Speaker 3: and the perfect daughter and instead acknowledge that human beings
1:39
Speaker 3: are complicated and that there is more to the story,
1:42
Speaker 3: likely than we are being told in the media.
1:50
Speaker 4: I kept thinking that I wouldn't have to say anything,
1:55
Speaker 4: because in my mind at that time, struggling was thinking
2:01
Speaker 4: that it was my fault, that I should have done
2:04
Speaker 4: something different. I didn't realize that saying these things was
2:11
Speaker 4: making me look guilty. I didn't realize that people were
2:15
Speaker 4: watching that every moon.
2:20
Speaker 1: From Lava for Good this is wrongful conviction with Maggie
2:23
Speaker 1: Freeling today Tammy Pool. On the evening of April twenty second,
2:43
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, Tammy Pool and her husband Michael
2:46
Speaker 1: got into an argument at their home in Chatsworth, Georgia.
2:50
Speaker 1: They had a tumultuous relationship and this was not unusual.
2:54
Speaker 1: This time, though, a gun was involved and Michael suffered
2:57
Speaker 1: a fatal bullet wound to his temple. Tammy says the
3:03
Speaker 1: shot was self inflicted and that Michael had often threatened
3:06
Speaker 1: suicide in the past, but as the only witness to
3:08
Speaker 1: the shooting, police saw Tammy as a suspect. A case
3:13
Speaker 1: was quickly built against her, and she was arrested, charged,
3:16
Speaker 1: and convicted for the murder of her husband, Michael.
3:24
Speaker 4: This is not happening. This can't be happening. How do
3:28
Speaker 4: they not know. I didn't realize that my lawyers did nothing.
3:34
Speaker 4: I didn't realize that there was no science to it,
3:38
Speaker 4: just one opinion. He assured me he was going to
3:41
Speaker 4: tell the jury how it happened, and that never never happened.
3:50
Speaker 4: I am Tammy Poole. I've been incarcerated in Georgia prisons
3:56
Speaker 4: for fifteen years.
4:11
Speaker 1: Tammy Pool was born December twenty seventh, nineteen seventy three,
4:15
Speaker 1: in l j, Georgia, to Rose and Curtis David. She's
4:19
Speaker 1: the youngest of two kids. Her brother, Danny, is fifteen
4:22
Speaker 1: years older.
4:24
Speaker 4: I always looked up to my brother. He was just
4:27
Speaker 4: great to me. He had this wonderful, big, huge cat.
4:32
Speaker 4: I used to share my ice cream with it, and
4:34
Speaker 4: I just loved that cat.
4:37
Speaker 1: Tammy and her brother learned to find joy in the
4:40
Speaker 1: little things, especially since their family didn't have a lot
4:43
Speaker 1: of money.
4:44
Speaker 4: One year, we weren't able to get a birthday cake,
4:47
Speaker 4: and my mom had bought a couple of boxes of
4:51
Speaker 4: little debbies and arranged them and made it look like
4:55
Speaker 4: a clown so it was a clown cake. So I
4:57
Speaker 4: remember that being happy.
5:01
Speaker 1: But Tammy's childhood was also filled with a lot of trauma.
5:06
Speaker 4: My father drank a lot. My mother was a hoarder,
5:13
Speaker 4: so there was a lot of things that went on.
5:17
Speaker 4: I had different babysitters, so there was some childhood mental, physical,
5:23
Speaker 4: and sexual abuse. And I've never I just didn't say anything.
5:33
Speaker 4: I kind of closed in on myself.
5:40
Speaker 1: As she got older, she admits she started expressing her
5:42
Speaker 1: trauma in destructive ways.
5:45
Speaker 4: When I was seventeen years old, I was hanging around
5:51
Speaker 4: with some people that were a little older than me,
5:54
Speaker 4: and they were breaking into houses. I was in the
6:00
Speaker 4: vehicle while they went in, and of course they ended
6:03
Speaker 4: up getting caught, and then I had got in trouble
6:06
Speaker 4: for shoplifting.
6:10
Speaker 1: When Tammy was seventeen, she met her first husband, Kenny.
6:13
Speaker 1: After about a year together, on August fifth, nineteen ninety two,
6:17
Speaker 1: she gave birth to her first child, Shannessy.
6:21
Speaker 4: It was amazing just to see her born, to see
6:25
Speaker 4: her little face when she came out, it was just
6:29
Speaker 4: absolutely amazing. Then within just a few months, I was
6:35
Speaker 4: pregnant again and this was my son, Christopher. He was
6:41
Speaker 4: born July twenty third, nineteen ninety three, so that was
6:45
Speaker 4: only eleven and a half months after Shannessy, so we
6:48
Speaker 4: would call those Irish twins.
6:51
Speaker 1: Tammy and her husband bought a house in Chatsworth, Georgia.
6:55
Speaker 2: Life was great.
6:56
Speaker 1: They were living their dream and their children have fond memories.
7:01
Speaker 2: What do you remember about growing up with your mom?
7:03
Speaker 5: I remember her taking us to Disney World, I mean
7:07
Speaker 5: riding the Tower of Terror and I was terrified.
7:10
Speaker 2: This is Tammy's oldest child, Shannessy.
7:13
Speaker 5: I remember her like teaching me how to drive when
7:16
Speaker 5: I was younger, like bits and pieces, and her taking
7:23
Speaker 5: me to beauty pageants. She was like my biggest fan
7:26
Speaker 5: when I was in beauty pageants.
7:29
Speaker 4: I used to take them to karate practice and I
7:34
Speaker 4: tried to coach them in basketball, a little five and
7:37
Speaker 4: six year old teams, and I didn't know how to
7:41
Speaker 4: play basketball, but I just wanted to spend time with them,
7:45
Speaker 4: and I wanted them to have the things that I
7:46
Speaker 4: didn't have.
7:50
Speaker 1: On the outside, Tammy, Kenny and their kids were a
7:53
Speaker 1: picture perfect family, but her marriage with Kenny soon hit
7:57
Speaker 1: the rocks.
7:58
Speaker 4: We were We were good for a little while, and
8:01
Speaker 4: then about ten years in we decided to call it quit.
8:07
Speaker 1: Tammy's past had caught up with her and it led
8:10
Speaker 1: her to drug use.
8:12
Speaker 4: I had battled with addiction to.
8:18
Speaker 1: Miss and.
8:24
Speaker 4: Ah, I just I'm not sure exactly what to say
8:28
Speaker 4: about that. A lot of people may understand that childhood trauma,
8:37
Speaker 4: especially untreated childhood trauma, you live your life in a
8:41
Speaker 4: way kind of like on autopilot. You just do. You
8:45
Speaker 4: don't really think about it. So my struggle with drugs,
8:49
Speaker 4: I didn't really think about that. I just I just
8:53
Speaker 4: did it.
8:56
Speaker 1: Tammy's drug use got out of control. She went to
8:59
Speaker 1: jail a couple of time because of it, which led
9:01
Speaker 1: to more problems between her and Kenny.
9:04
Speaker 4: We had a awful custody battle, and I was usually
9:10
Speaker 4: on the losing end.
9:12
Speaker 1: Shannessy remembers how it impacted her relationship with her mom.
9:21
Speaker 5: It wasn't really a conventional relationship, Like I didn't I
9:25
Speaker 5: felt like I didn't really like my mom because of
9:29
Speaker 5: everything I had heard, and I wasn't able to form
9:32
Speaker 5: my own opinion as a child.
9:35
Speaker 1: So what were you hearing like people around town or classmates.
9:38
Speaker 5: Family members, mostly family members saying that like, she's always
9:44
Speaker 5: going to be a drug addict, she's always going to
9:46
Speaker 5: be a bad person. She's always like, uh, never going
9:51
Speaker 5: to be there for me.
9:53
Speaker 2: And so did you feel like she was a good mom?
9:56
Speaker 6: Uh?
9:56
Speaker 5: Well, I mean I felt like she was for a
9:59
Speaker 5: little while, and then I really don't know when it was,
10:04
Speaker 5: but I had like she had to meet us at
10:08
Speaker 5: a place for like supervised visitation, and I remember being
10:13
Speaker 5: told that she had to take a drug test and
10:16
Speaker 5: I remember thinking like, that's that's not what I want
10:19
Speaker 5: as a mom, Like that's not who I want my
10:21
Speaker 5: mom to be, and that's I didn't really think she
10:24
Speaker 5: was a good mom at that point. I did when
10:26
Speaker 5: I was younger, but after probably nine, maybe ten, I
10:34
Speaker 5: started to think that she was just a junkie and
10:38
Speaker 5: a bad person because that's what I had been led
10:41
Speaker 5: to believe, and I wasn't really able to get to
10:44
Speaker 5: know her because I had already planned in my mind
10:47
Speaker 5: that I didn't want to.
10:50
Speaker 1: Around this time, about two thousand and one, Tammy was
10:53
Speaker 1: trying to pick up the pieces of her life when
10:55
Speaker 1: she met another man named Robbie. Their son, Brent, was
10:58
Speaker 1: born in two thousand three, but that relationship didn't last long.
11:04
Speaker 4: So I was still in the middle of those custody
11:08
Speaker 4: battles to get trying to get myself together, trying to
11:15
Speaker 4: do all these things, but I could never quite reach
11:19
Speaker 4: my potential.
11:27
Speaker 1: Tammy became more motivated to change things though, when she
11:30
Speaker 1: met someone else around January two thousand and four. His
11:33
Speaker 1: name was Robert Michael Poole and he went by Michael.
11:40
Speaker 4: He seemed like a really nice person. He had his
11:44
Speaker 4: own place, he had a job as a carpenter, and
11:48
Speaker 4: we just started talking. And I was single at the time,
11:54
Speaker 4: so I just thought it was great. I kind of
11:58
Speaker 4: thought that he was, Oh, here's this guy that's got
12:02
Speaker 4: it together and I keep messing up. He can help me.
12:07
Speaker 4: I kind of looked at him as like my savior.
12:12
Speaker 1: Tammy was smitten with Michael.
12:16
Speaker 4: I just thought that life was gonna get a little better. Okay,
12:20
Speaker 4: I'm gonna have this normal life. We're gonna be We're
12:23
Speaker 4: gonna be just fun.
12:27
Speaker 1: Like Tammy, Michael had three kids. They moved in together,
12:30
Speaker 1: and things were on the up for their blended family.
12:34
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. We always talked about our kids and we
12:37
Speaker 4: would take them places like the river and fishing and
12:43
Speaker 4: things like that, fun things with the kids. I don't know,
12:48
Speaker 4: we just we called ourselves the Brady Bunch, the Pool Bunch.
12:57
Speaker 1: Tammy was finally feeling good in her life. Two thousand
13:00
Speaker 1: and five. She went back to school at Appalachian Technical
13:03
Speaker 1: College to study accounting and business. She eventually pursued a
13:07
Speaker 1: paralegal program, and it was love for her older brother
13:10
Speaker 1: Danny that inspired her.
13:13
Speaker 4: He had a lot of run ins with the police,
13:15
Speaker 4: and I really wanted to keep him out of jail.
13:19
Speaker 4: So I thought, if I could be a good attorney,
13:21
Speaker 4: I could keep him out of jail.
13:24
Speaker 1: But not long after Tammy and Michael got together, things
13:27
Speaker 1: took a turn. It started with the house they were
13:29
Speaker 1: living in.
13:30
Speaker 4: It come to find out, the house that he lived in,
13:33
Speaker 4: he didn't actually he wasn't actually rent in that house.
13:36
Speaker 4: It wasn't actually his house, so after I had moved
13:40
Speaker 4: in there with him, we left and moved in with
13:44
Speaker 4: his sister. And it was just it was.
13:51
Speaker 1: Little things, and these were things Michael's ex wife had
13:54
Speaker 1: already tried to warn her about.
13:57
Speaker 4: She tried to talk to me one day, and I
14:02
Speaker 4: didn't listen. I always thought that it was her fault
14:07
Speaker 4: that they had split up, and I didn't realize till
14:11
Speaker 4: probably a year later, that Michael had some serious problems.
14:23
Speaker 4: Those little things that I liked. I liked the way
14:25
Speaker 4: he watched me. I liked the way he paid attention,
14:28
Speaker 4: but it kind of turned dark. If my eyes looked
14:33
Speaker 4: the wrong way, I was accused of looking at somebody else.
14:36
Speaker 4: Or it was little things, little things like that.
14:43
Speaker 1: But Tammy says, the little things at times also turned
14:46
Speaker 1: into physical violence.
14:49
Speaker 4: And then it was a push and then a harder shove,
14:53
Speaker 4: and so of course I pushed back, and then I left,
15:00
Speaker 4: and then we got back together, and then I left,
15:04
Speaker 4: and then we got back together.
15:06
Speaker 1: Timmy says they would follow this cycle countless times.
15:10
Speaker 4: But of course, me being me, I would make excuses
15:14
Speaker 4: for him.
15:19
Speaker 1: By two thousand and six, things were really bad between
15:23
Speaker 1: the two. One day they were driving in the car
15:25
Speaker 1: and got into an argument, and it took the.
15:28
Speaker 2: Trouble they were having to a whole other level.
15:32
Speaker 4: We had a car accident, but the accident it wasn't
15:35
Speaker 4: really an accident, like he ran the car off the
15:38
Speaker 4: road because we were arguing and I had just buckled
15:42
Speaker 4: my seatbelt because the road that we were on was
15:45
Speaker 4: just very very curvy, and we hit a tree.
15:49
Speaker 2: So you think he did it on purpose.
15:52
Speaker 4: No, he did it on purpose. He said that he
15:55
Speaker 4: was gonna kill us both.
16:05
Speaker 1: Tammy was lucky she survived, although the accident left her
16:09
Speaker 1: badly injured with internal bleeding. She would be in a
16:12
Speaker 1: walker for months after. Still, Tammy and Michael stayed together,
16:17
Speaker 1: but things continued to deteriorate. Tammy started becoming convinced that
16:21
Speaker 1: Michael was having some serious mental health issues.
16:25
Speaker 4: We dabbled in Matthews and I'm not sure. I'm not
16:32
Speaker 4: sure if he did the wrong kind, if he did
16:34
Speaker 4: too much. It was like he started going crazy and
16:41
Speaker 4: there was something. It was odd. Everyone noticed his behavior.
16:47
Speaker 4: His older sister and I talked about having him committed.
16:51
Speaker 4: He had went to his ex wife's house tried to
16:54
Speaker 4: get a telephone that belonged to his dad, this anti telephone,
16:58
Speaker 4: because he thought he was going to call his The
17:01
Speaker 4: problem is his dad had been dead for years, so
17:07
Speaker 4: it was I can't really describe it.
17:10
Speaker 1: And Tammy says, Michael continued to talk about suicide.
17:14
Speaker 4: He had started doing that so much. I had taken
17:18
Speaker 4: guns away from him before. His little sister had taken
17:21
Speaker 4: got her boyfriend and taken guns away from him. It
17:25
Speaker 4: just seemed to be getting worse and worse. I didn't know.
17:30
Speaker 4: I didn't know what to do. He had found out
17:33
Speaker 4: that his sister and I were talking about putting in
17:35
Speaker 4: a mental institution, and he saw that he would He
17:39
Speaker 4: would kill me, he would kill her, he would kill
17:42
Speaker 4: us both. That he did not want to go to
17:44
Speaker 4: a mental institution, and I believe him. The violence at
17:51
Speaker 4: home was bad. We argued constantly. It was. It was
17:59
Speaker 4: more than I knew how to deal with. I didn't
18:02
Speaker 4: know how to help him, help myself, how to convince
18:07
Speaker 4: him that I loved him and that we were going
18:09
Speaker 4: to be okay. It was a very, very dark time.
18:20
Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.
18:25
Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making
18:29
Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and
18:32
Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light
18:35
Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and
18:39
Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,
18:44
Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and
18:48
Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. On the evening
19:00
Speaker 1: of April twenty second, two thousand and seven, Tammy and
19:03
Speaker 1: Michael were again arguing.
19:06
Speaker 4: I found out that he had been talking to this girl,
19:09
Speaker 4: but it turns out he was only talking to her
19:11
Speaker 4: about drugs. So we were arguing. I told him, I
19:20
Speaker 4: told him that day that I hope he died, you know.
19:29
Speaker 4: Then we made up, of course, there's always that makeup period.
19:34
Speaker 1: Then Shannessy and Christopher left to spend the evening with
19:37
Speaker 1: their father. Brent also went with his dad.
19:42
Speaker 4: Of course, after the kids left, we had some you know,
19:45
Speaker 4: makeup making out and I don't know what happened. By
19:50
Speaker 4: something snap and then he just got really really angry, And.
20:03
Speaker 1: Tammy says, this is when Michael went and grabbed a rifle.
20:08
Speaker 4: I remember I was on the bed and he pointed
20:12
Speaker 4: the gun at me, and I got in the fetal
20:15
Speaker 4: position and I was just saying no, please, no, no, no,
20:19
Speaker 4: And then he pulled me by my ankle off the
20:22
Speaker 4: end of the bed and he was banging the gun.
20:28
Speaker 4: It was a rifle. He was banging it against his
20:31
Speaker 4: head and it was right there in front of my face.
20:38
Speaker 4: And I got up. I was standing, and she leaned
20:44
Speaker 4: over in front of me, and he kept reaching for
20:48
Speaker 4: the trigger and I had my hands on the end
20:50
Speaker 4: of the barrel, and I kept thinking, it's gonna shoot me,
20:53
Speaker 4: It's gonna shoot me.
20:55
Speaker 2: But Michael didn't shoot her.
20:58
Speaker 4: He puts the trigger. I'm sorry.
21:05
Speaker 1: The bullet hit Michael in the left side of his forehead.
21:13
Speaker 4: I didn't have any idea what to do. I didn't
21:16
Speaker 4: know CPR. I kept trying to get my phone to
21:19
Speaker 4: dial one one one. I didn't want to leave him,
21:23
Speaker 4: but I had to go outside to go mine one
21:25
Speaker 4: one and I am. It seemed like it took them
21:30
Speaker 4: forever to get there. I don't have any idea how
21:33
Speaker 4: long it was. It just seemed like a really long time.
21:40
Speaker 1: An ambulance finally came and took Michael to the hospital.
21:44
Speaker 1: Tammy was driven there by a friend from church. At
21:46
Speaker 1: the hospital, Michael was pronounced dead. Tammy was absolutely distraught.
21:53
Speaker 4: I just kept saying, I should have I should have
21:55
Speaker 4: I should have done something different. I should been nicer.
22:01
Speaker 4: I shouldn't have said what I said when I told
22:09
Speaker 4: him that day that I hope he died. I shouldn't
22:12
Speaker 4: have said that.
22:29
Speaker 1: When the police came onto the case, they immediately questioned Tammy.
22:34
Speaker 4: I remember they asked me like a lot of questions.
22:37
Speaker 4: But I kept thinking that you know, they're gonna know,
22:41
Speaker 4: They're gonna know he shout himself.
22:43
Speaker 1: I mean, they have to know, right, But police were
22:47
Speaker 1: focusing on the fact that Tammy's story kept changing.
22:51
Speaker 4: I kept thinking that I wouldn't have to say anything
22:56
Speaker 4: because in my mind at that time, I'm struggling with
23:02
Speaker 4: thinking that it was my fault, that I should have
23:05
Speaker 4: done something.
23:06
Speaker 1: Different, because she felt guilty for telling Michael she wished
23:12
Speaker 1: she was dead. Timmy didn't want the police to think
23:15
Speaker 1: it was a suicide.
23:18
Speaker 4: I kept thinking, Okay, well, if I say that a
23:24
Speaker 4: gun got caught on a broken laundry basket there, that
23:29
Speaker 4: the trigger got caught on that, then it wasn't my fault,
23:33
Speaker 4: and it wasn't Michael's fault and everybody can just live
23:36
Speaker 4: with a tragic accident. And so that's what I told people.
23:44
Speaker 4: Then my landlord called and said, what happened? Was he
23:47
Speaker 4: cleaning the gun? And that was the next morning. And
23:53
Speaker 4: what was I to say? No, he killed himself because
23:56
Speaker 4: I was a bad wife. Rather than saying that, I said, yeah, yeah, yeah,
24:02
Speaker 4: that's what happened. I didn't realize that saying these things
24:08
Speaker 4: was making me look guilty. I didn't realize that people
24:13
Speaker 4: were watching that every move I was drowning in my pain.
24:22
Speaker 4: And I don't know, I don't know what I was thinking.
24:27
Speaker 4: I can't I can't describe that.
24:35
Speaker 1: A pathologist, doctor William Oliver, performed the autopsy on Michael's
24:39
Speaker 1: body and declared that the fatal shot was not self inflicted. This,
24:44
Speaker 1: along with her changing statements, solidified the case against Tammy,
24:48
Speaker 1: and just a few months later, in June two thousand
24:50
Speaker 1: and seven, she was arrested for the murder of Michael Poole.
25:05
Speaker 1: Tammy's trials started on June ninth, two thousand and eight,
25:08
Speaker 1: a year after Michael's death. Her defense attorney, Richard Thurman,
25:12
Speaker 1: was actually Michael's cousin by marriage, and if that sounds.
25:16
Speaker 2: Like it's weird, it is.
25:19
Speaker 1: The prosecutor was da Jo Hendrix and one of his assistants,
25:22
Speaker 1: Mike Baird.
25:24
Speaker 2: Their case was straightforward.
25:26
Speaker 1: Tammy was the only one in the room with Michael
25:29
Speaker 1: she shot him. A firearms examiner from the Georgia Bureau
25:33
Speaker 1: of Investigation, Christopher Robinson, took the stand. He said the
25:37
Speaker 1: weapon used was the semi automatic rifle found in the
25:40
Speaker 1: bedroom Tammy and Michael shared. The prosecutors also called doctor Oliver,
25:44
Speaker 1: who testified that the gunshot wound was inflicted not by
25:47
Speaker 1: Michael but by someone else. The prosecution also used Tammy
25:52
Speaker 1: and Michael's tumultuous relationship, her past run ins with the law,
25:56
Speaker 1: and her changing story against her. A woman who had
25:59
Speaker 1: been imprisoned in the same facility as Tammy testified that
26:03
Speaker 1: Tammy had confessed to her that she had gotten Michael
26:06
Speaker 1: quote out of the picture in order to be with
26:09
Speaker 1: someone else. Both of Tammy's kids were also called to
26:13
Speaker 1: testify against her.
26:14
Speaker 5: I remember them hounding me with crazy questions like what
26:19
Speaker 5: we had to eat and what I was doing there
26:23
Speaker 5: the week before because it was spring break, Things like
26:28
Speaker 5: did I see them ever? Like hit each other or
26:31
Speaker 5: anything like that, and I just I just didn't think
26:34
Speaker 5: that was a Those are questions to ask a child.
26:37
Speaker 5: It's like they were trying to get me to say
26:41
Speaker 5: that they were physically abusive to each other in front
26:43
Speaker 5: of everybody, or like they were. They asked me if
26:46
Speaker 5: I had ever seen them be involved in drugs, and
26:50
Speaker 5: I was not prepared to answer that on a stand.
26:53
Speaker 1: At fourteen, when it came time for Tammy's son, Christopher
26:57
Speaker 1: to take the witness stand, he said he saw Tammy
26:59
Speaker 1: and my Michael make up after their fight before leaving
27:02
Speaker 1: with his dad. Michael's sister testified that she believed Michael
27:05
Speaker 1: would kill Tammy and then himself, and Michael's brother in
27:08
Speaker 1: law also testified that Michael had said he would kill
27:11
Speaker 1: himself if the circumstances did not improve. Defense attorney Thurman
27:16
Speaker 1: also cross examined the woman who had allegedly heard Tammy
27:20
Speaker 1: confess while she was in jail. Under cross examination, it
27:23
Speaker 1: came out that this witness had a motive of her
27:26
Speaker 1: own to sell Tammy out for perhaps less severe charges
27:30
Speaker 1: for herself, but the defense did not call any experts
27:33
Speaker 1: to refute the States expert that Michael's death was not
27:36
Speaker 1: a murder.
27:40
Speaker 2: The trial was quick, the.
27:42
Speaker 1: Jury found Tammy guilty, and she was sentenced to life
27:45
Speaker 1: in prison plus twenty seven years.
27:50
Speaker 4: This is not happening. This is just this can't be happening.
27:54
Speaker 4: How did they not know? I didn't realize that my
27:58
Speaker 4: lawyers did nothing. I didn't realize that there was no
28:03
Speaker 4: science to it, just one opinion. He assured me he
28:09
Speaker 4: was going to tell the jury how it happened, and
28:11
Speaker 4: that never never happened.
28:20
Speaker 1: Timmy lost everything, including her kids. So did you think
28:26
Speaker 1: your mom did this when it first happened.
28:29
Speaker 5: I did.
28:34
Speaker 1: After her mother went to prison, Shannessy says she felt worthless.
28:39
Speaker 5: I had always been told that I was just like her,
28:42
Speaker 5: so I started to think, well, maybe I am. Maybe
28:45
Speaker 5: I just can't be good. Maybe I don't know any
28:48
Speaker 5: good things to do.
28:50
Speaker 1: So Shannessy started running with a bad crowd like her
28:53
Speaker 1: mom had done.
28:54
Speaker 5: After I turned twenty one, I was really well. After
28:56
Speaker 5: I turned eighteen is when I moved out and I
28:58
Speaker 5: was able to, Oh goodness, do really crazy things because
29:03
Speaker 5: I felt like my whole life was not there, Like
29:06
Speaker 5: I didn't have my mom. My relationship with my dad
29:09
Speaker 5: was not good. Because of that, and so I just
29:13
Speaker 5: I kind of felt like I went off the rails.
29:16
Speaker 5: I guess you could say I started to party, to drink,
29:21
Speaker 5: being reckless and careless.
29:24
Speaker 1: Four years, Shannessye and Tammy went without speaking. During that time,
29:29
Speaker 1: Tammy made a point to work on herself. She got
29:31
Speaker 1: clean from drugs and sought treatment for her childhood trauma.
29:35
Speaker 1: She started doing yoga and focusing on spiritual and physical
29:38
Speaker 1: well being. All the while she also kept working on
29:42
Speaker 1: her case. Tammy kept thinking.
29:44
Speaker 4: Surely, at some point they're gonna know. Surely, at some
29:48
Speaker 4: point somebody will see the truth.
29:52
Speaker 2: Then someone did see.
29:57
Speaker 1: A pro bono attorney picked up Tammy's case, and in
30:00
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, they filed a motion for a new trial.
30:04
Speaker 1: At this point, Tammy reached out to her kids. She
30:07
Speaker 1: let them know she had a court hearing coming up
30:09
Speaker 1: and she wanted them to attend.
30:12
Speaker 5: And I remember going, and I remember sitting in the courtroom,
30:18
Speaker 5: and when I heard everything they were saying, it was
30:22
Speaker 5: like my mind was blown.
30:25
Speaker 1: All these years, Ennessy thought her mom was a cold
30:27
Speaker 1: blooded murderer, but now sitting in the courtroom hearing the evidence.
30:32
Speaker 5: I couldn't fathom the fact that I was one of
30:38
Speaker 5: the ones that was against her when there was no
30:41
Speaker 5: possible way she could have done this everything they were
30:43
Speaker 5: laying out in court, There was no way. Something was
30:47
Speaker 5: seriously wrong with this case. And at that moment, I
30:49
Speaker 5: knew that I had to find out and I had
30:52
Speaker 5: to get her side, and I had to help her
30:56
Speaker 5: because it wasn't fair, Like I felt like I had
30:59
Speaker 5: ripped the opportunity from her for her telling me the truth,
31:02
Speaker 5: because I didn't give her a chance, because nobody allowed
31:06
Speaker 5: me to really get the truth from her. They didn't
31:09
Speaker 5: let me see what really happened. From that moment on,
31:14
Speaker 5: I have believed in my mom and I will never
31:17
Speaker 5: back down again.
31:26
Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, Tammy's motion was denied, but by twenty
31:29
Speaker 1: twenty she was back in court.
31:31
Speaker 6: Her story was immediately compelling to me. She was an
31:33
Speaker 6: immediately compelling person.
31:35
Speaker 1: This is Tammy's current lawyer, Brendan Bullard. He came onto
31:38
Speaker 1: her case in twenty twenty one. What was compelling about
31:43
Speaker 1: her case that made you want to take it for
31:45
Speaker 1: you know virtually nothing?
31:48
Speaker 6: Well, two things. One, the way Tammy told her story
31:53
Speaker 6: to me. I can't count the number of murder cases
31:57
Speaker 6: I've handled. At this point, I don't want to think
31:59
Speaker 6: about it, but it just it did not jibe with
32:05
Speaker 6: any of my past experiences. It just the state's narrative
32:09
Speaker 6: what it just didn't seem to fit, especially after talking
32:13
Speaker 6: to her.
32:17
Speaker 1: One of the main pieces of evidence for Tammy's innocence
32:20
Speaker 1: is the results of a gunshot residue test. These results
32:24
Speaker 1: had actually been presented at the trial.
32:27
Speaker 7: There was no gunshot residue, I'm sure because typically when
32:31
Speaker 7: you when you fire a gun, there is microscopic residue
32:36
Speaker 7: that sort of balloons out or plumes out from around
32:39
Speaker 7: the gun and it ends up on your hands, it
32:41
Speaker 7: ends up on your clothes, and.
32:43
Speaker 6: It can be tested for.
32:45
Speaker 7: So there's sort of one piece of forensic evidence that
32:49
Speaker 7: you would assume should be there if Tammy fired the
32:53
Speaker 7: shot that is wholly absent.
32:56
Speaker 1: And Tammy's new team finally has experts that contraday what
33:00
Speaker 1: the state said at Tammy's trial. At that time, doctor Oliver,
33:04
Speaker 1: the state's expert, said that there is no dispute that
33:06
Speaker 1: the fatal shot in Michael's forehead was from close range.
33:10
Speaker 8: However, for Tammy to have fired a shot into her
33:14
Speaker 8: husband's head at the steep angle that doctor Oliver proposed,
33:20
Speaker 8: he would have to have been lying prone.
33:22
Speaker 7: She would have to have been holding the rifle at
33:25
Speaker 7: his head and pointing toward his body.
33:28
Speaker 6: It's just hard to imagine.
33:29
Speaker 7: Unless he's unless he's shooting him when he's asleep, and
33:32
Speaker 7: there's no suggestion that that's the case.
33:36
Speaker 1: The post conviction team brought that testimony to a new expert,
33:40
Speaker 1: doctor James Downs, who has been a forensic pathologist for
33:43
Speaker 1: three decades. Doctor Downes says that the state's expert was
33:47
Speaker 1: flat out wrong. The bullet didn't go downward as doctor
33:51
Speaker 1: Oliver had contended, but traveled upward into Michael's head.
33:55
Speaker 2: In doctor Down's.
33:56
Speaker 1: Words, quote, it's physically impossible for this injury to happen
34:01
Speaker 1: with a rifle at that angle.
34:04
Speaker 7: But much more plausible and much more physically possible, is
34:06
Speaker 7: the diagram of Michael holding a shot.
34:08
Speaker 6: Across his body.
34:08
Speaker 7: His arm is long enough to reach the trigger pull
34:12
Speaker 7: on the Winchester to hold the shot against his head.
34:15
Speaker 7: And basically, when you look at the undeniable forensic evidence
34:21
Speaker 7: about the direction of the soot, the location of the
34:24
Speaker 7: pieces of projectile, and the path of projectile took through
34:28
Speaker 7: his head. When you trace that, it just seems obvious
34:32
Speaker 7: because it is more natural, it is more plausible. It
34:36
Speaker 7: is the explanation that best fits all of the data
34:41
Speaker 7: without excluding anything.
34:45
Speaker 1: And then, in a surprise twist, one of the original
34:48
Speaker 1: States experts is now on Tammy's side. Christopher Robinson, formerly
34:53
Speaker 1: of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, had testified at the
34:56
Speaker 1: trial about the type of gun that was used. He's
34:59
Speaker 1: now retired with his own forensic practice, so Tammy's team
35:02
Speaker 1: went back to him and asked him to evaluate the evidence,
35:06
Speaker 1: something he had never been asked to do for Tammy's case.
35:09
Speaker 6: When Chris looked at the evidence, he simply could not
35:14
Speaker 6: avoid the conclusion that it was that it was a
35:16
Speaker 6: self inflicted shot, and because it was consistent with other
35:21
Speaker 6: suicides he's handled, and and that's his read on the evidence.
35:24
Speaker 6: And you know, his is a hard opinion to discount.
35:29
Speaker 6: He's willing to come in and just say, look, this
35:32
Speaker 6: is I'm in this because it is wrong, because the
35:35
Speaker 6: conviction is wrong. And if the GBI had asked me
35:38
Speaker 6: to look at the case the way I've since been
35:40
Speaker 6: asked to look at the case, I would have come
35:42
Speaker 6: to the same conclusion.
35:46
Speaker 1: Robinson also suggested that the gun be tested for DNA.
35:50
Speaker 7: If Tammy fired the shot, she would have had her
35:54
Speaker 7: hands around the trigger of the gun, around the butt
35:57
Speaker 7: and the trigger pull and the trigger guard, so she
36:01
Speaker 7: would have likely deposited skin cells there, so that can
36:06
Speaker 7: be sampled and determined. And at this point, what we
36:10
Speaker 7: fully expect DNA testing to show is that her skin
36:15
Speaker 7: cells are not there. That they might be saying near
36:18
Speaker 7: the barrel of the gun or on the barrel of
36:19
Speaker 7: the gun where she she moved it, but they weren't
36:22
Speaker 7: near the trigger that Michael's and also that Michael's are.
36:31
Speaker 1: Tammy's team is currently petitioning for the DNA testing. Between
36:35
Speaker 1: the lack of gunshot residue on Tammy or her clothes
36:38
Speaker 1: and doctor Down's and Christopher Robinson's testimonies, plus the potential
36:42
Speaker 1: new DNA evidence, Tammy, her family, and her team are
36:45
Speaker 1: hopeful she will be granted a new trial and come home.
36:49
Speaker 1: Shannessy says she's ready to have her mom finally back
36:52
Speaker 1: in her life and to start their relationship over.
36:58
Speaker 2: So how is it now amazing?
37:02
Speaker 5: We talk every day. She's my biggest supporter.
37:07
Speaker 4: So much.
37:13
Speaker 5: Yeah, she uh she does everything she can to help.
37:23
Speaker 5: She is seriously the strongest woman I know at this point,
37:27
Speaker 5: Like she hasn't been through so much and yet she
37:32
Speaker 5: still sees the positive side of everything. But she she's smart,
37:38
Speaker 5: she's funny, she's dedicated to her family. She talks to
37:47
Speaker 5: my kids every day that she calls. And she's in prison.
37:53
Speaker 5: I can't imagine how how happy I could have been
37:58
Speaker 5: if she would have been in my life when she
38:00
Speaker 5: was supposed to be, Like if we would have been
38:02
Speaker 5: able to talk when I turned eighteen or seventeen or
38:06
Speaker 5: sixteen even, and she could have told me that I
38:11
Speaker 5: am like, I am worth it, and I am okay,
38:14
Speaker 5: and I'm not like anybody else, and she's not like
38:18
Speaker 5: anybody else. And you can change, you can accept your
38:24
Speaker 5: past and then change your future.
38:32
Speaker 1: And when her mom does get out, Shannessy's first order
38:35
Speaker 1: of business.
38:36
Speaker 5: We're going to dye her hair. That's what she wants.
38:38
Speaker 5: She wants me to bring a box of hair dye
38:40
Speaker 5: and die her hair because she's great. Yes, yeah, so,
38:46
Speaker 5: and then we're going to go to six Flags and
38:50
Speaker 5: Lake Winnie and take the kids to Florida, and I'm
38:52
Speaker 5: going to be able to go on a date with
38:54
Speaker 5: my fiance because she'll be able to watch my kids
38:58
Speaker 5: and she'll love it anyway, So it's gonna be amazing.
39:06
Speaker 1: So when you get out, Tammy, what's like the first
39:09
Speaker 1: things you want to do?
39:13
Speaker 4: Hug all three of my grandchildren? Maybe just be grateful
39:20
Speaker 4: for every second. Thanks, kiss the outside ground.
39:31
Speaker 1: If you want to help Tammy, you can go to
39:33
Speaker 1: change dot org and search Tammypool. There's a petition started
39:36
Speaker 1: by Shannessy for her freedom. Thank you for listening to
39:45
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank Amanda Knox for bringing
39:48
Speaker 1: Tammy's case to our attention and for joining me on
39:51
Speaker 1: the show today. Starting next week, Wrongful Conviction with Maggie
39:55
Speaker 1: Freeling is taking a break for a while, but we'll
39:57
Speaker 1: be back with season two real soon. In the meantime,
40:01
Speaker 1: don't go anywhere. We've still got lots of these stories
40:04
Speaker 1: to tell, and you can still catch Wrongful Conviction with
40:06
Speaker 1: Jason Flamm every Thursday. See you in season two. Thank
40:19
Speaker 1: you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please
40:22
Speaker 1: support your local innocence organizations and go to the links
40:25
Speaker 1: in our bio to see how you can help I'd
40:28
Speaker 1: like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm and Kevin Wurtis,
40:32
Speaker 1: as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea, researcher Lila Robinson,
40:36
Speaker 1: story editor Sonya Paul, with additional production by Jeff Cliburn
40:40
Speaker 1: and Connor Hall. The music in this production is by
40:43
Speaker 1: three time OSCAR nominated.
40:45
Speaker 2: Composer Jay Ralph.
40:47
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40:50
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40:57
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