Latest / UNFIT FOR RADIO with JAYKERS / “Inside Notes”

Transcript

“Inside Notes” · UNFIT FOR RADIO with JAYKERS

0:00
SPEAKER_03: Hey! Did you see the film crew in the studio today?
0:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh I sure hope you got that warp situation taken care of by now.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if I was driving, I would have kept on going, but my bodyguard and assistant were also in the vehicle, so I really didn't have any option.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, don't look directly at the cameras.
0:19
SPEAKER_03: They're expensive, and I don't want you to break anything before we even get started with the big event.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Ah, now I remember.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: That's what she said.
0:33
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Unfit for Radio with Jakers.
0:35
SPEAKER_03: That's me.
0:36
SPEAKER_03: Blonde, Polish, dyslexic.
0:38
SPEAKER_03: But uh don't hold that against me.
0:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm super excited for this episode.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: And I am Ray, Jaker Sidekick, and the senior star of UFR.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: Hey, that rhyme.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Today on Unfit for Radio, we're joined by a very special guest, a man whose extensive background in music spans more than three decades.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: That's like 30 years.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: Born in Los Angeles, California, and raised in Carson, Rob Miller, better known as The Professor, grew up surrounded by music, with his father also involved in the industry.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: His own musical journey began in high school, where he played baritone horn in the school band, before eventually finding his way behind the drums and developing his talents as a professional musician.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: That was a long sentence.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: Today he owns and operates Track Shack Studios, where he brings his creativity, experience, and passion for music to life through production.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: With over 30 years of professional experience, Rob has established himself as a talented keyboardist and organist and is a well-known church musician throughout the Phoenix area.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Beyond performing, Rob has spent more than 20 years in the world of sync licensing.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: And I need to know what that is, helping place music in television, film, and other media with an impressive portfolio of more than 16,000 music placements and credits.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: His work has been featured across major networks and productions, including TMZ, Fox Sports, Extra, CNN, BET, Teen Titans, The Jennifer Hudson Show, ENews, and Warner Brothers Studios, along with numerous other television and film projects.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: And if that weren't enough, Rob is also the creator and host of the Inside Notes podcast, where he brings his extensive industry knowledge, experience, and passion for music to the conversation with his guests.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Today we're excited to get to know the man behind the music, explore his journey, and talk about the industry, the business, and everything in between.
2:44
SPEAKER_03: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Unfit for Radio, my friend Rob Miller.
2:50
SPEAKER_03: Robin for being here, and uh we appreciate your time.
2:54
SPEAKER_03: How are you doing?
2:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing good and I'm I'm excited about this.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: We've been talking about it for a little while.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, when I first saw that you had a podcast, I kind of had the idea.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: I knew it one day that I would probably be on your podcast, but I didn't know that we would do a joint podcast like this.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: So this is this is fun.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: This is exciting.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: You know what I thought the first time I realized that you had a podcast and I had a podcast?
3:18
SPEAKER_03: We worked together previously, yeah, and we were always known kind of as like introverts or quiet or we didn't share our thoughts a lot.
3:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
3:26
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, how is the two quietest guys gonna go and get a podcast?
3:32
SPEAKER_03: But hey, we got some loud thoughts too.
3:35
SPEAKER_03: Right.
3:37
SPEAKER_03: Um, so from the people on my show, how how how are we gonna go and view the the sections of this?
3:43
SPEAKER_03: Do we go to insider notes on YouTube or how do we how do we get there?
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's on YouTube.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Inside notes podcast on YouTube.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: And I guess we can at the end we'll throw in all the you know the logos and all the tags and stuff.
3:59
SPEAKER_03: Sweet.
4:00
SPEAKER_03: So I know that was an elaborate introduction, but for the people in the back, can you please tell us a little bit more about yourself?
4:07
SPEAKER_03: If the if if we forgot anything, I know.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, that's that's that's pretty much been it for me for, you know, like you said, the last 30 plus years has been all music, full-time music.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: Um primarily with the sync licensing on on TV.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: But church has always uh been a big part of my music journey too.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm always um I'm always gonna be a church musician in in some extent because you know my dad did the same thing, right?
4:39
SPEAKER_00: He played until um you know he couldn't play anymore.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: And uh it's just in me, right?
4:45
SPEAKER_00: So I'm always gonna be a musician.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Your dad played in the church too?
4:50
SPEAKER_00: He did, he did.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: He played, he played the keyboard and I played the drums.
4:53
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, we played together for a long time, and then um he uh he developed I don't want to make this a sad episode, but he developed cancer, and then to the point to where he finally couldn't play anymore, and then our pastor said, Hey Rob, why don't you start playing the keyboard?
5:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, No, I don't, you know, no, I don't want to play the keyboard.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: I was 25 years old, right?
5:16
SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't a kid, right?
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: So I anyway, it worked out that I started playing the keyboard at 25 and and it worked out.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Did you already know how to play the keyboard or did you have to learn at that age?
5:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I didn't really I didn't really know how to play.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: We know we always had a piano in the house, of course, because my my dad played.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: And every once in a while as a kid, you know, I would go to the piano and just kind of pick out stuff.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: So everybody kind of knew I had the ear for it.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: I just, you know, I didn't have the interest for it, or I thought I didn't have the interest for it.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: But it can't it kind of showed later that I had always been interested in it, right?
5:54
SPEAKER_00: So and I was playing drums and I played baritone, like you said, in the March and Band.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: So music was always there, but keyboard was not.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: I think in fact, I think because my dad made it look so easy that I thought maybe I can't I can't do what he does, right?
6:10
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, because of that, I think that's what kind of held me back for a while from wanting to try it.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: But it was it was always there.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of a message for my son that's sitting right there.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: How old are you right now?
6:26
SPEAKER_00: 25.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
6:29
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: So you never know.
6:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:32
SPEAKER_03: Passing the torch already.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: Right.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: So I have to know why why why is it they call you the professor?
6:38
SPEAKER_03: I even heard Reg call you the professor.
6:40
SPEAKER_03: Why, why are we calling you the professor?
6:42
SPEAKER_00: That's that's just Reggie being Reggie, right?
6:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: Because when I when I met him, you know, I would I would always um he always thought that I was extra uh particular.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: Like I always I wanted certain sounds in the keyboard, so I had to go and dig.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: I could just turn on the keyboard and just use whatever was there.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Always had to go in and dial in my sounds and have everything perfect.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: So he kind of, you know, kind of coined that little nickname, the professor.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Reggie's fun.
7:15
SPEAKER_03: He's unique.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: You grew up in uh Carson, California with music already part of your family.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: What was it about music that grabbed you and made you want to pursue it professionally?
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, my start is actually in middle school when I was in the marching bands.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: That's where the bearitone thing came from.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: So, um, but of course, you know, I'm 12, 13 years old.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: I was never thinking about music full time.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm just, you know, a kid in school doing, you know, what I'm told to do.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Play the songs in the marching band, that was it.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: So the the professional part didn't come until way later.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: After even starting the keyboard at 25, I'm nearing like 30 years old before I actually thought, okay, you know, maybe I can, you know, pursue this.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: Because my parents, although my dad was a musician, my parents were of the um, you know, music is not a full-time job.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: They were from that generation, right?
8:18
SPEAKER_00: That's what they were teaching me.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: I was like, you can't really make a living doing that.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: So I didn't think it was possible until you know things started to work.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: I started, you know, playing in these churches.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: People wanted me to play, and then I learned how to make music on the computer, which changed everything for me.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's when I realized, yeah, you know what?
8:35
SPEAKER_00: This might work.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: This can work.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: So I gave it a shot.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: So um, before you got into music, uh, assume you had another job to make money.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: So what were you doing?
8:48
SPEAKER_00: My last job, I was detailing cars.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I heard this.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was one of one of my one of my videos on on Instagram.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I worked at a um a Saturn auto dealership.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Actually, my my cousin was the owner of the dealership, right?
9:04
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just detailing cars.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: It's not a career, you know, I'm just doing it just because you know I had to do something, right?
9:11
SPEAKER_00: To make money.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: But music was always in the back of my mind.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how can I turn this into a music career?
9:18
SPEAKER_00: And then when he finally fired me, I had no choice.
9:21
SPEAKER_03: You got fired for going to a show, right?
9:23
SPEAKER_00: I got fired by my own cousin.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you had a gig.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I had a gig in it was a gig, I was playing with this choir, and um the choir had a gig in Vegas, right?
9:34
SPEAKER_00: So, and we were in, this is in California, we were in Ontario, California.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: Gig was in Vegas, but it was on um Labor Day weekend, right?
9:43
SPEAKER_00: And it is auto dealership to be gone on a holiday weekend is a no-no, because that's their big weekends where they sell a lot of cars or whatever, right?
9:51
SPEAKER_00: So I had to I had a dilemma.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm either gonna, you know, but I'm thinking you know, at the same time, you're like, hey, my cousin owns this place, right?
9:58
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna go ahead and I'll see you guys on Monday, right?
10:03
SPEAKER_00: So I went.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: I did the show, came back, and they were like, he wasn't even there when I got back, but they said, hey, yeah, um uh your cousin told us to fire you.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: Me?
10:14
SPEAKER_00: Told him to fire me, right?
10:16
SPEAKER_00: And it was true.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: They I was fired, and that was it.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: But there was a guy who was there, he was one of the mechanics, and uh, you may you may know the story.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: He was one of the mechanics, and he like he barely spoke English, right?
10:29
SPEAKER_00: We never talked.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: I never had never talked to this guy, right?
10:32
SPEAKER_00: But he came to me, he said, Hey Rob, I don't want to do the accent, I don't want to be disrespectful, but he had this thick accent.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he said, you know what, you because everybody knew that I wanted to be a musician.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: He said, he said, hold your hands out.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: And I put my hands out and he said, You're a musician, and you're supposed you're supposed to be using your hands, not detailing these cards.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: This is what you're supposed to be doing, right?
10:52
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow, Jose, you know what I mean?
10:55
SPEAKER_00: And he he like he said that it was deep.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: It was really deep, right?
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I kind of took that and and ran with it.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: So it worked out.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: It was it was a couple rough years after that point, but it worked out.
11:08
SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
11:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so you started playing the drums and uh you were playing the horns.
11:14
SPEAKER_03: What what drew you to the keyboard and the and the organ?
11:17
SPEAKER_03: How'd you make that transition?
11:19
SPEAKER_03: It was because of my dad, you know.
11:21
SPEAKER_03: Um it was because of the pastor basically started requesting you.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, because this was uh this is you know it was a real small, like family type church, right?
11:31
SPEAKER_00: And so it was it was either me or nothing.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, what else were we gonna do, right?
11:36
SPEAKER_00: So he said, Yeah, I want you to just just start playing and you can take over the choir and you know, just you know, run the whole thing.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: And I I just started learning.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: I started learning, I was teaching the choir parts.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: I taught myself to teach the you know the choir parts.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: I just you know, I just learned it all on the spot.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: And wow, yeah, and it worked out.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: I just it just worked out, and it fit it felt right from the beginning, though.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: It felt like I had been doing it forever because I had seen my dad do it forever.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: So that's a big responsibility, just kind of be thrown into it, not really knowing what you're doing.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: With that, okay, so yes, so we we were talking earlier about different different styles of churches, right?
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's there's some churches where that's kind of the norm, is to be put on the spot to do stuff, right?
12:24
SPEAKER_00: This was one of those churches where it was not out of the ordinary to be thrown in the fire like that.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: And so it happened.
12:32
SPEAKER_03: You have to improvise every Sunday because you don't know.
12:34
SPEAKER_03: There's no playlist, there's no rehearsal, nobody comes with some set tracks.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: None.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: None.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: And I'm back there right now every Sunday.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I'm doing when I get there most of the time.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you just have to.
12:47
SPEAKER_03: You're back there like now?
12:49
SPEAKER_03: Like to not that church.
12:50
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: But that that type of church to where we may have a couple of songs, we may have a sort of a set list, right?
12:57
SPEAKER_00: We and we'll do the songs, but every Sunday after those songs are done, it's like, okay, now it's time for is this is now um, we're just gonna, you know, it's like like I don't wanna say prophetic, but um there's just no, there's no plan to what happens after those two songs, right?
13:15
SPEAKER_00: And what it turns into is it what if it feels like to me, let's see how many songs we can sing on the spot, let's see how many songs Rob can survive with.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Back to back, and it's just back to back, song after song, and I have to just survive, right?
13:30
SPEAKER_00: Because that's the way I started years ago, right?
13:32
SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of comfortable.
13:34
SPEAKER_03: You feel like the human shazam now?
13:38
SPEAKER_03: Like you you you hear him singing for three seconds, you gotta go start playing that song.
13:43
SPEAKER_03: Totally, yeah.
13:44
SPEAKER_03: Wow, yeah.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, you become a well-known church musician here in the Phoenix area.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: What has playing in churches taught you about music, people, and performing?
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, what it taught me about people being here in Phoenix is Phoenix is is quite different from LA.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: The types of churches that I've been here or I've been with in Phoenix versus the type of churches I was with in LA, it's a big difference.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, it just you know, it kind of taught me that um there are a lot of different styles of of church services, and um it kind of because of my background being so widespread musically, I'm kind of able to make it in the different genres of music, right?
14:35
SPEAKER_00: So uh it just kind of taught me that everybody's different, but at the end of the day, it's the same.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like it's like we all have the same goal.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: We're all trying to get to the same goal in in the service, but the journey to get there is different.
14:52
SPEAKER_03: It's like we're all ice cream but different flavors, like just rocky roads sometimes.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: So being here in Phineas, I've gone all the way from the totally um uh service with no plan at all to a church like the church we talked about earlier.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say the name, but we worked at together.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Everything is everything is planned out.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Everything is is like you have a whole script for everything.
15:18
SPEAKER_03: You know what to expect, yeah.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: That was new to me.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: That was new to me, but the people from the background I'm used to, they kind of look down on it, you know, to say, well, well, that, you know, everything is planned for you.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's just super easy.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, well, it it is easy musically, but I I it taught me to respect the organization because there's a lot of planning that went on for that stuff, and that's the the part that other people don't know.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of planning that goes on behind the scenes, and like I yeah, I gained a lot of respect for that that kind of um service and some of the people I worked with too.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: I because I saw them work behind the scenes.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a lot, definitely.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I I could I I like it, I could take it both ways.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: I like it both ways, but I like either um the planned way or the spontaneous way.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: That was the word I was looking for.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
16:10
SPEAKER_03: Like I said, I came from a church.
16:12
SPEAKER_03: I grew up in a church that was very spontaneous.
16:14
SPEAKER_03: You never there was not a set list, there wasn't a rehearsal, people would get up and you know it'd be almost like open mic, and you don't know what what's getting ready to happen.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, yeah, you really gotta be on your feet.
16:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
16:26
SPEAKER_03: Interesting, it's very interesting.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh, for people like me who know absolutely nothing about music licensing, which I don't, let's talk about the term sync licensing.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: What exactly is that?
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Sync licensing is is is actually it's a newer term, it's kind of popular now.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: But when I got into it, there was no name for it.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: It was just, you know, you make music and the the television shows buy the music and they use it.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Now it's a real popular term.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a fad, right?
16:57
SPEAKER_00: So what it is is you know you make make music or you write your music, and then it gets licensed to uh different TV shows.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: And for a period of time, whatever the contract says, that show or that network owns the music for a period of time.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: So um, if I have some music that's accepted today, for example, they will own that music for the next five years.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: So there's there's music that I've created myself that I can't even use on my own Instagram stuff.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Wow, I've gotten warnings saying, well, this is owned by Warner Brothers.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, yeah, well, I did it in my house stuff, right?
17:32
SPEAKER_00: And I can't use it.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: And then does it eventually come back to you as for ownership or no?
17:39
SPEAKER_00: That's that's a that's a great question.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: Because I just had a new contract with another uh music library last week, in fact, and that was one of the questions was whether or not the music comes back after that five-year period.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: So in my first um situation, which is with uh Warner Brothers, it's been 21 years now, right?
18:01
SPEAKER_00: So it's been a long time.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: But the music that I write for them is kind of specific to those shows.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: So I don't I don't think about like if it comes back to me, what am I gonna do with it?
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can't use it again anywhere.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: So I I don't really think about it.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: So the the legal answer is yes, it does come back to me after five years.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: But I've heard them use stuff after 15 years, and I still hear the same music because it's licensed to that show forever, basically, right?
18:29
SPEAKER_00: So if there's a sh if I'm lucky enough to have a show that uses reruns, which is not often, but if there's reruns and they use the reruns and play the reruns, that music is still attached to it.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: But you only got paid once for it.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: No, you get paid every time it's used.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you do every time it's played.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's oh, that's great.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: Every time it's played.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: So you have residuals or whatever they call it.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: Every anytime it hits the airway, it could it can even be just a commercial saying, tomorrow on extra, we're gonna have this guest, that guest, and there's music playing in the background.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: That counts too.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: The actual show counts, the promo stuff counts, everything counts.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: That'd be nice to have all those checks rolling in now and then, isn't it?
19:09
SPEAKER_01: He's like, it is.
19:11
SPEAKER_03: What are you talking about?
19:12
SPEAKER_03: That's my living.
19:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
19:14
SPEAKER_03: So I got a question.
19:16
SPEAKER_03: Can you control it then?
19:17
SPEAKER_03: Like, um, so say, I know there's you know, political people that people may like or not like.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: It say, you know, somebody who you don't like starts using your music, you don't have zero control over that.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't.
19:32
SPEAKER_03: In fact, uh As long as they pay you, you don't have control over that.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: I have some stuff right now because every every piece of music that I that I have is is listed on the ASCAP website, right?
19:42
SPEAKER_00: That's some cases, right?
19:44
SPEAKER_00: So I can see everywhere my music is is used.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: So recently in the last year, I've had some stuff on Fox News, right?
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that that's I mean, because you still somebody I don't like.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying whether or not I like Fox News or not.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm just saying that that rubs certain people the wrong way sometimes.
20:00
SPEAKER_03: So you could, yeah, great conversation.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: So no, so but it no, I don't I have no control over.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Because what I do is I write the music and you know, I put my stuff together and I send it to the production company, and they decide which show that they have that fits the music that I've that I've um sent in, right?
20:18
SPEAKER_00: So apparently some of the stuff fits the um Fox News uh promo stuff, their commercials, right?
20:24
SPEAKER_00: So they use it.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't care who it is, just as long as you get paid, yeah.
20:28
SPEAKER_03: Right.
20:29
SPEAKER_03: That's I remember Easy E saying that back in the day.
20:31
SPEAKER_03: Like he uh there was you know a thing about people buying his music and then not liking him and whatever.
20:37
SPEAKER_03: And he was like, hey, you know, my they already bought my CD.
20:40
SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, what's it matter?
20:42
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, no, so I I remember that.
20:45
SPEAKER_03: Um you've been involved in sync licensing for more than 20 years.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: How did you originally get into that?
20:50
SPEAKER_03: Like, who I know the story, but share the story.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: Like, how did this evolve?
20:55
SPEAKER_03: I uh can you Do you know you know the story?
20:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it happened at church service.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: You just gave somebody a ride.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: It all happened with a thumb.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was yeah, I was at um, I was um helping a church.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: I didn't actually play for the church.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: This is still in LA.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: I was it's a church in Santa Monica.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: I didn't actually play for the church, but I was hired to help their band and you know rehearse their band.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: I was kind of the MD, but I was never there on Sundays, right?
21:21
SPEAKER_00: So we were at a rehearsal one night, and one of the guys uh in the choir, you know, I'm not in fact I didn't I didn't know anybody's story.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: I was just there doing what I was supposed to do when I would leave, right?
21:32
SPEAKER_00: So one of the guys in the choir, he said, um, hey Rob, I need you to, I want you to stay after rehearsal and help me with my you know singing my parts or whatever, right?
21:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: So we stayed after, and I went over the music with him.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: And then he said, you know, he's just kind of blurted out, all right, you know, I gotta go because I have to be with the clock in early tomorrow at four o'clock in the morning or something, right?
21:54
SPEAKER_00: So I said, Wow, you know, four o'clock.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Like What you doing?
21:57
SPEAKER_00: What are you doing?
21:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, we have to be at work that early.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: And he said, I Work for um I work uh for a company called Telepictures and we're doing a show called Extra, right?
22:06
SPEAKER_00: I said, Extra?
22:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, extra, yeah, right.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh, that's cool.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: He said, in fact, we we have a new show coming out, and if you have some music, because we need some urban music, if you have some some music, let's hear some of your stuff.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: I might be able to get you in.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Sweet.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I said, All right.
22:24
SPEAKER_03: So did you already have stuff ready, or did you go home and like rethink some things and recreate?
22:28
SPEAKER_00: I I had a few things.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I told him, I said, well, you know, I have some music.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's right for TV, but you know, I have some stuff.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'll let you hear some.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: So I put some on CD.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: This is 2005, right?
22:40
SPEAKER_00: So I put some stuff on CD.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: I wrote the sharp vibes, tracks, or whatever.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: And he told me when to be there.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: So I went to this studio and I let him hear the stuff.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: And he he put it in the CD player.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: He said, Oh, okay, yeah, we need to take this upstairs to the man.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: We need to let the man hear this.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: I said, okay, let's go.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: And we went, we let the man hear it.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: And the guy said, Um, yeah, we could send you a contract right now.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Whoa, that's nice.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
23:10
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't your soul, right?
23:12
SPEAKER_03: It was just money.
23:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:15
SPEAKER_03: Some of those contracts, you don't know.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: I I still didn't know.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know anything about that.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, that the term licensing licensing wasn't a thing then.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: So I had never heard of it.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know, I didn't know what this was.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: This is this is February 2005, right?
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: I had no idea what this was.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: I just said he said, Well, can you, he said, I hear your music, I like your music.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: Can you continue to make music like this though on a regular basis?
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Because anybody could put together some stuff, you know, a one-time thing.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: But they needed somebody who can do it.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Consistently, right.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Because they had this, the Tyra Banks show was coming out, right?
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: So they said, we need somebody to do this on a consistent basis.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: I said, well, yeah, I can do it, right?
24:00
SPEAKER_00: February, though, 2005.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: So I started doing it and I was working consistently on it.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: But I didn't get paid until July 2006.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: No way.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Right?
24:13
SPEAKER_00: That's over a year and a half.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: So that's the part I'm probably jumping, jumping forward on your questions.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: That's the part that people don't understand about this business that it doesn't happen overnight.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: It takes some time.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: It takes a lot of time.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: To build that wall and yeah, yeah.
24:30
SPEAKER_03: Your accomplishments before they come back around.
24:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:32
SPEAKER_03: Did you want to get into the story of um when you when you first got your check?
24:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we can.
24:38
SPEAKER_03: And your conversation with your wife.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, you did, you did some serious research, right?
24:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:45
SPEAKER_03: Am I saying too much?
24:46
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was all it was all public.
24:48
SPEAKER_03: It's out there already, right?
24:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was all public.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: So, so so like I said, 2006, right?
24:54
SPEAKER_00: We have now moved from Phoenix, I mean from LA to Phoenix in the middle of all this, because you know, I didn't know, I didn't know, because you don't know what you're gonna get paid in sync licensing, because you don't know how much your music is gonna be used.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: I just knew my stuff was on TV every day, right?
25:10
SPEAKER_00: But I hadn't got paid.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Men, I used to sit down and watch the Tyra Banks show every day, right?
25:15
SPEAKER_00: And I we it I mean, it was like back to back, the whole show.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: Whenever she went out of commercial, it was me.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: When it came out of commercial, it was me every single day.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: But I wasn't getting paid.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just thinking, okay, well, I know I'm gonna get paid, but how much is it gonna be?
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: So um I had um, I had applied to work at the airport here in Phoenix because I used to work at LAX years ago, right?
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: So I said, forget this music thing.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna go ahead and forget it.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this if this sync licensing thing is is gonna work out or not, right?
25:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: So I applied for the airport, got hired, and the day that I was supposed to start, my wife said, she said, you know what?
25:57
SPEAKER_00: This thing might work, right?
25:59
SPEAKER_00: She said, so I'll go ahead, I'll get a job, and you keep doing this, and maybe it'll work, right?
26:05
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so she, yeah, this is kind of she has a lot to do with with this, you know, working out.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Because I could have given it up right then and there, right?
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: So we did that.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: She went, she went in, she got a job.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: I just kept working on the music and still seeing, hearing the stuff on TV.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: Then I finally got paid, and uh yeah, I was able to call her and say, hey, yep, put that notice in.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Put your two weeks in.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Put your two weeks in.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: And she said, nah, put it in two hours.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm out right now.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it worked, it worked out.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: It worked out.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, you've had more than 16,000 placements and credits.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: When you hear a number like that, does it even seem real to you?
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: No.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: No, it doesn't.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: No, I wouldn't think so.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Because I I remember the first one.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, I remember when I made it to a hundred.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
26:56
SPEAKER_00: So you know, 16,000, I would have never thought I would have that much music, you know, being used.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean 16 song, uh, 16,000 songs.
27:07
SPEAKER_03: It just means it's been played 16,000 times.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: It may be around a thousand songs that I have out there or so.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so they've been used, yeah, 16,000 times.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: So that means 16,000 times my music was chosen out of thousands.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they have thousands of pieces of music to use, right?
27:27
SPEAKER_00: And but yes, 16,000 times.
27:30
SPEAKER_03: How often does that number change and go up?
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Roughly um a little less than a thousand per.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: For a while, it was about a thousand a year.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: So if like if if if it stayed that way, then it would be 21,000, you know, because it's been 21 years, right?
27:49
SPEAKER_00: So roughly, you know, it's it's around there.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: You give or take, eight, eight hundred to a thousand a year.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, and I I see people every day now that sync licensing is is popular.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: I see people on social media and they, you know, they celebrate, oh wow, I got three placements this month.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I was kind of spoiled because I right out the gate, I was able to get this show to myself.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't really happen that way.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: A lot of time.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: It's just, yeah, I was blessed right place at the right time.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: So with all these placements and all these shows, I'm sure I've heard your music maybe a hundred times or more, and I wouldn't even know it because there's they don't give you credit for it.
28:34
SPEAKER_03: At the end, I think you see the credit, right?
28:36
SPEAKER_03: Or no?
28:36
SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: There's been a few shows I've had.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, like I said, the the like there's a difference in the shows that have reruns and the shows that don't.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: So shows like Extra and TMZ, which I'm on the most, they don't do reruns because their shows are current, you know, entertainment stories, right?
28:54
SPEAKER_00: So there's no reruns on those shows.
28:56
SPEAKER_03: Tartary play news, old news, yeah.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: So at the ends of those shows, they'll just show it will say telepictures music.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: That's who did that music.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: They don't show each person.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: Plus, there's you know, 50 to 60 pieces of music used on each episode, right?
29:10
SPEAKER_00: So they can't list everybody on there, right?
29:12
SPEAKER_00: But then there are a few shows where I've had I have seen my name a couple of times, but I mean like a I'm talking less than five times where I have seen my name on the credits.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: And that's yeah, that's kind of cool.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of different.
29:24
SPEAKER_03: Is there any type of like criteria when it comes to making sync music?
29:28
SPEAKER_03: Does it have to be like 30 seconds long, a minute long, two minutes long?
29:31
SPEAKER_03: Like, what what are they really looking for?
29:33
SPEAKER_00: Between a minute and a half and two minutes.
29:36
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's not like regular, um, like if you're doing music for an artist, it's a little different because you have to um like you have to have a super short intro, right?
29:48
SPEAKER_00: You have to because you have to get right into it.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: The track has to happen in a minute and a half.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: You gotta catch the attention, yeah.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: You gotta get it right away.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you gotta get it right away.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: You have to keep it interesting.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, they're they're pretty short, and you have to make sure um the track is syncable, meaning that there's things you you have to have things in the music that will catch a video editor's ear.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: So you have certain things that that they can hear, or I can cut a video to this because it has like nice hips here and there.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: You can write BPMs and everything, right?
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all that stuff matters, yeah.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's really cool.
30:21
SPEAKER_03: Out of all your placements, have have you had one that's just completely I'm I know you mentioned the one on Fox News, but has there been any other ones that just you know completely came out of left field?
30:30
SPEAKER_03: You're like, whoa, they picked up my music.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there was one, um, I think it was like CBS Sports or something one time, right?
30:40
SPEAKER_00: Where they're doing some highlights and I hear something, you know, I look but because it's my music, I recognize it instantly, right?
30:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: So I hear someone go, hey, you know, and I'm just watching T.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Those are the good ones where you know I'm just watching TV.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm not thinking about licensing, I'm just watching TV, right?
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I hear something go, that's my music.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Those those are the ones that that are the coolest because you're surprised.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Now I know I can watch extra every day pretty much and hear I expect to hear, you know.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm mad if I don't hear something, right?
31:09
SPEAKER_00: So those the surprise ones are are the cool ones.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: That that may have been one of the most surprising because I had no idea that um CBS Sports was even one of the clients.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: I just sent in music, they use it wherever.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, those are that was a cool one.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: That was cool.
31:27
SPEAKER_03: Uh your music has been placed with TMZ, like we've mentioned, uh, Fox Sports, Extra, CNN, BET, all the good stuff.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: The Jenver Hudson show.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: Um what is the placement that's still you stop and it's like, wow, I can't believe that you know it ended up there, like in a shocking way.
31:46
SPEAKER_03: Like, I can't believe they use my music.
31:48
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Maybe the the queen or whoever, you know, the Teen Titans cartoon.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: The Teen Titans?
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Teen Titans cartoon, yeah.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: Because like everybody else, when we grow up watching cartoons, right?
32:00
SPEAKER_00: And you hear music.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, at least for somebody like me, that's all I would I would notice the music before anything else, right?
32:06
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, the Teen Titans cartoon is is um, that's a big one for me.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
32:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's the big one.
32:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:15
SPEAKER_03: What's the mid what's the biggest mince misconception musicians have about getting their music on television and movies and commercials and other media?
32:26
SPEAKER_00: That you get rich overnight?
32:28
SPEAKER_02: What?
32:29
SPEAKER_02: That's what they think.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: It takes a lot of time, a lot of time, a lot of dedication.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: You have to, you have to work a lot.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: You have to work at it a lot.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: And and and it's not as glamorous as people think.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: People probably think you watch TV and you hear the music, you might think it's some, you know, big famous producer, you know, making the music for this show.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's just Rob Miller, you know, up the street in the house.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's not glamorous like that.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: So people think, well, I'm a I'm I'll get rich and famous from this.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: It's not the case.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Nobody's gonna know who you are.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Nobody knows who I am, except like in this case, where you know, you did some research and we're talking about it.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Other than that, like you asked about my name on the credits, it's not there.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: So nobody knows.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's not for somebody who wants to be or who's doing it for popularity.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: It's not for it's not that.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's just a business.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: It's a business.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: It just happens to be a business that you can it happens to be something you love to do, but it's just a business.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: It's really cool.
33:34
SPEAKER_03: I think I think it's really cool.
33:35
SPEAKER_03: Especially you say that it's not really glamorous or fun, but it's what you make of it.
33:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've seen your Instagram feeds.
33:42
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's fun.
33:42
SPEAKER_03: You don't look like you have a glamorous life, but you look like you enjoy your life for sure.
33:46
SPEAKER_03: And it it looks fun and you love what you do.
33:49
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, you could shoot a video and not say a word and just shoot you you see the passion.
33:54
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you the passion is is captured in the video.
33:57
SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, it's something that you love to do, and I I think that you know, when you when you listen when you do something you love, they say that it's no longer work, you know.
34:05
SPEAKER_03: It's just, you know.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like I've like I haven't worked in in over 20 years because I've been doing what I love.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: So that's the best part about it.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: But you you also have to be the kind of person who like it works for me to be in the house all the time.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I don't have to go to some studio somewhere.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm in, I'm in the house.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to be that kind of person where you can you you don't mind spending hours in that chair all day like I do.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: It it works perfect for me.
34:34
SPEAKER_03: And stay driven because I mean I've even seen your videos where it looks like you know, every single day you treat it like a business.
34:39
SPEAKER_03: You don't just you don't just sleep in and be like, I own this and I can do whatever I want.
34:43
SPEAKER_03: No, you still clock in every day, even though if it's you know it's your own studio, you're there, you're showing up and you're putting in the work, and yeah, you can you can see that.
34:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Well, that was a question I had, but you just answered it about working.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: That is your job.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you get up and you and you write music and play music and record it and send it and market it.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's what you okay.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: Can an independent musician realistically make money through sync licensing, or do you need a major label or major connection to get you started?
35:17
SPEAKER_00: You don't necessarily have to have a a major label.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: It would just take a serious amount of work.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: Like I'll like I said, I was lucky, you know, out the gate where I was connected with Warner Brothers from day one.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: So I was lucky enough to have, you know, a connection.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: So you do you have to have some connections.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: It it can work.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: I I never I would never tell somebody, no, it's not realistic.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, why would I say that when it works?
35:45
SPEAKER_00: It worked for me, so why couldn't it work for somebody else?
35:48
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's possible.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: It's definitely possible.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: When you're listening to a piece of music specifically for sync, what are you listening for?
35:56
SPEAKER_01: What makes the song syncable?
35:59
SPEAKER_00: A song that's that's syncable is if it's if it's instrumental, then you have to keep it interesting.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: But it's an instrumental, so there's no vocals on top of it, right?
36:10
SPEAKER_00: So it can't just it can't sound like an instrumental.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: You have to play something on the top of it, some some sort of interesting melody to keep it interesting, but at the same time, it has to be out of the way because there's gonna be a vocal or a dialogue from the show on top of it, right?
36:29
SPEAKER_00: So you have to you have to be able to play this melody and keep the music sounding full without getting in the way of of um dialogue, right?
36:37
SPEAKER_00: So so there's that, and then like you said, there's the the tempos matter, you have to have certain things in there to catch that audio or video editor's ear.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: So things like that.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: And you know, to you want you want your song to be attracted.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: You want to you want to attract that that video editor.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: That's who you're making this music for.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: They're the ones who will decide whether or not, you know, it's gonna be you.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: So you're not making music for yourself.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: I've had people send me stuff that they like, and I'll I'll tell them when, you know, I like it, you like it, but you have to know that you you this person that you're sending it to, they have to accept it.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: So you have to make it to where it's usable.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: And if it's not usable, it could be the best feeling track in the world.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: But if it's not right for sync, it's not right.
37:25
SPEAKER_03: Nobody can cut to it and and slice their videos to it, yeah.
37:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if it doesn't have that feeling, yeah.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: So do you play um just keyboard or do you put other instruments in there too?
37:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, drum well, I started on drums.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: I went to MI in Hollywood for drums first, and then you know, the keyboard came after after that.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: So I don't really talk about the baritone much, although that was you know six years, that was all through middle school, high school, one year-ish of college.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: So, um, so there's baritone, drums, and keyboard.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you don't do guitar or bass or anything like that.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: No, no, I didn't think so.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: No.
38:08
SPEAKER_03: Are you talking about like actually playing it or are you talking about like putting it in his music?
38:12
SPEAKER_03: Because actually playing it for his music.
38:14
SPEAKER_03: Well, he can put it in his music without actually playing the instrument.
38:17
SPEAKER_03: Like they can on the keys.
38:19
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you can on the keyboards you can do that.
38:21
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't sure if you could.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you simulate all that.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, you can play on the keyboard, you can play like I can I can simulate the drums on the keyboard, I can simulate the bass on the keyboard, but the instrument you can't simulate is guitar.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: You can't you can't fake this drum of a guitar, right?
38:40
SPEAKER_00: So you you may have seen some of my Instagram stories where I'll tell I know all these, I know so many guitar players dancing stuff been in Arizona, but I still have to fake stuff on the guitar.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: But I know all these guitar players.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: So hopefully some of them, some of them listening to this and come through and play some stuff.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: Because I have to really go through some stuff to fake that you can't fake the strum.
39:03
SPEAKER_03: Hey, I had Hunter on the episode and he can play the guitar.
39:07
SPEAKER_03: There you go.
39:08
SPEAKER_03: I might have a connection, a finder's fee in here.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: After more than three decades in music, do you only focus on sync music or do you still create other personal projects?
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Good question because I just I just had a a rapper in the studio.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: What just two weeks ago.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: Two weeks ago.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: So so he asked, he asked kind of the same question because he knew me as, like he was introduced to me as, you know, I'm the guy who does some TV or some music for TV, right?
39:38
SPEAKER_00: So he comes to the studio, right?
39:40
SPEAKER_00: And he asked the same thing.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, you know, I I can do, you know, some stuff for you, but um if I was to sit here and because I have to think about time, like the time that I spend doing this stuff, right?
39:54
SPEAKER_00: So I said, well, uh, if if I sit here and I make a track for you, and then once the track is done, then I have to make the decision.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: Do I I said this to him, and it was, it was, I had to, I had to apologize to him.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: I didn't mean to be disrespectful.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: I said, well, should I should I give the track to you or should I give it to Warner Brothers?
40:15
SPEAKER_00: I said, no, I don't know.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: I didn't say it that way.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: I said, should I give the track to Warner Brothers or should I give it to some artist, some local artist who more than likely is not gonna make it, is the way I said it.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of it was kind of disrespectful, right?
40:31
SPEAKER_00: Because that's that's the dilemma, right?
40:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can work on somebody's project, but in in this position, in this business, you have to decide, okay, do I want to spend time on this project?
40:43
SPEAKER_00: I have to really believe in that artist for me to spend the time working on artists.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it won't go anywhere, right?
40:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, most people, I mean, this business, you know, what's the percentage of people who make it?
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very small, isn't it?
40:56
SPEAKER_00: When I know that I can spend that same time and put some music together and send it to TV and it's gonna be used for something, right?
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
41:04
SPEAKER_03: That's very interesting.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: So I will I will work on an artist project if I I have to really believe in that artist.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: And I did, you know, I did that um a few years ago, just what four or five years ago.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: I did a gospel project with somebody because I believed in this person as an artist.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: I said, Yeah, this this person has it all, right?
41:26
SPEAKER_00: This could do something, right?
41:28
SPEAKER_00: We did the project, we finished it, and he sort of abandoned it.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: Because after you get done with the project, you gotta now, now you have to promote it, right?
41:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it just died for no reason.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: So to me, that time was a waste.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: You ever talked to him about that?
41:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all the time.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: He had other projects after that.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: Robin, do another project.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, mm-mm, mm-mm.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: I believe you're not.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: That's messed up.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: That's that's this business.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: That's one of the struggles of being, you know, a self-employed musician.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you have to you have to, you know, make harsh decisions and tell people no.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: And that's not always easy for me to tell people.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: No.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:17
SPEAKER_03: That's hard.
42:19
SPEAKER_03: So you've watched the music industry evolve like from physical media and traditional broadcasting to streaming, social media, and now you you know the threat of AI.
42:30
SPEAKER_03: What is what's changed the most, and what do you see AI becoming an opportunity or a threat?
42:37
SPEAKER_03: And uh yeah, what what's that like for for being a musician?
42:41
SPEAKER_03: But then also what's that like for licensing?
42:44
SPEAKER_00: Because at some point AI could just make a whole bunch of well, it was it's it's been uh, you know, it's a hot topic right now, right?
42:53
SPEAKER_00: So in sync licensing at least, and I think also in the regular uh music business, they're start they're starting to reject the AI music.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I heard that Spotify, if you're an if you've if you create an AI artist and AI music, but it's not a real person, it's just all AI, then your project would be listed as AI.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Like you can't face it.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it should be.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it should be.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I don't I don't think uh to me, it's not a threat.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, like some like I my sister asked me, in fact, she said, well, with AI, are you worried about AI taking over?
43:33
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, no, I'm not I'm not afraid of it because as a musician, I can I can still manipulate it, I think, better than somebody who does not have music, you know, um, experience.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: I can manipulate it as as good as they can or better, because I have you know experience in it, right?
43:49
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not worried about it.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: There are ways you can use it as a tool, right?
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you shouldn't just type a prompt.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: And make a song, like you're just not touching anything.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: No, that that's not right.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: That's just not right.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: Where's the talent in that?
44:07
SPEAKER_03: The creativity is what makes it fun because it's it's your signature, it's what you're putting into it, your fingerprints.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: Because people don't, people don't.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: And me and I had this conversation with Reggie about the journey of music, right?
44:21
SPEAKER_00: Where the the journey is it starts in the beginning.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: Like it, and this could be for a church service or anything.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: When you create music, the journey is from when you get the idea of the music and then you create the music, and then there's a finished product at the end, right?
44:36
SPEAKER_00: So people that use AI, they're not focusing on that.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: Forget the journey.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: They just want to type something and they just want to get to the end result instantly, right?
44:45
SPEAKER_00: And it's just not, it's not, it's not real.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: Not only that, I got I had a conversation.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: I was with a guy last week, just last or two weeks ago.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: And this is another guy, this is a uh a Christian artist, right?
44:59
SPEAKER_00: And he asked me about AI, because he said, Yeah, I can't afford to pay you know somebody to do my project.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: I could just use AI.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: So I said, well, yeah, you can.
45:10
SPEAKER_03: You get what you pay for, though.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: You get what you pay for, but you have to think about um like when sampling was invented, right?
45:18
SPEAKER_00: When sampling came out, the problem then was people's music was being used on records or whatever, right?
45:26
SPEAKER_00: But they weren't getting credit for it.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: They were using actual recordings, right?
45:30
SPEAKER_00: And it was you basically stealing their music, right?
45:34
SPEAKER_00: So uh AI is the same in a sense, because if if there's a keyboard part, if if AI produces a keyboard part and puts it on your record, that sound comes from somewhere.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's learning from us.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: It's learning from us, but I I think it's even I think it's even deeper than that.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: Because what does that mean when some when people say we're training AI to make music?
45:59
SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna train AI to make the same exact keyboard sound that I created when I was called the professor?
46:09
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I created a certain blessing regime, that's why he calls me that because it's a certain sound that I want to use.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna get that same sound out of AI unless it's just taking recordings that it's picked up somewhere?
46:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
46:24
SPEAKER_03: It's stealing.
46:25
SPEAKER_03: Is it yeah?
46:25
SPEAKER_03: And it's it's taking it from somewhere that you don't know, so you feel like it's brand new.
46:30
SPEAKER_03: It's not, but yeah.
46:31
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you even tapped into it.
46:34
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I like I know 10 drummers, but all 10 drummers play differently.
46:38
SPEAKER_03: It's not like, oh, I know a drummer, so he's gonna, you know, no, like KJ.
46:42
SPEAKER_03: KJ's gonna really, really, really get into it.
46:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and there's other drummers that, you know, they lightly tap it and they they do other things, and everybody just has their different signature sound.
46:51
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I don't know how AI is going to manipulate that or copy it without stealing it, you know.
46:58
SPEAKER_03: It can't.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it can.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: It has to be stolen from somewhere.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Or or even if it's if it's vocals, you know, AI can create some real real nice sound and vocals, but where do those voices come from?
47:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: The computer doesn't have a voice, it doesn't.
47:15
SPEAKER_03: It's g it's it's getting it's getting it from somewhere and manipulating it or whatever, but it still came from a project that humans touch.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: Not not to mention the fact that if you if you create your songs that way, you're kind of just lazy and you don't you don't really have a love for music.
47:32
SPEAKER_03: I don't think you're really creating.
47:34
SPEAKER_03: That's almost like a that's almost like a microwave of cooking.
47:37
SPEAKER_03: It's like I pulled it out of the freezer and I threw it in the microwave, and now all of a sudden I'm a three-minute chef.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: No.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: No.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: But why would you even why would you want to do that as a as a musician or a songwriter?
47:49
SPEAKER_00: Why would you want to do like for me?
47:52
SPEAKER_00: Like the the joy in it is the or the love for music, is that I actually put my hands on the keys, not actually play this stuff.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: It's actually me.
48:01
SPEAKER_00: It's not just something I typed and made, you know, it's just it's just crazy.
48:05
SPEAKER_03: It's it's your life experience that you put in there and you capture it in that moment.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really cool.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, you've built a career not only as a musician, but also on the business side of music.
48:16
SPEAKER_01: What does someone actually need to understand about the business side if they want to start monetizing their music into a real income?
48:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh well, you have to you have to do your own homework.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: You have to um because it in my like in my situation, there is no, I don't work for any company, right?
48:36
SPEAKER_00: It's just me, right?
48:38
SPEAKER_00: So I actually have a horror story about the the sync licensing, right?
48:43
SPEAKER_00: So I was so in the beginning, like everything was going so good.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: I was out, like I said, I was kind of spoiled in the beginning because I had all of a sudden I'm I'm giving music to Warner Brothers.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: So I have all this music out there and I'm watching TV and I'm sitting back, like, yeah, I'm just hey, this the life is good.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: But what I didn't know happened, this is what happened because I didn't do some of my own research, right?
49:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh boy.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: So we had we had TMZ, we had TMZ Sports, and TMZ Live.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: There's there's that's three different TV.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: So they separate, yeah.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: You write the three different shows, but they're legally they're separate, right?
49:18
SPEAKER_00: Same show, but different business.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, right?
49:21
SPEAKER_00: So, but I knew from from day one, I was on TMZ from day one.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: Then they created TMZ Sports later, then they created TMZ Live, and I'm on all of it.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm watching them all.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm hearing my stuff.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: Life is good, right?
49:34
SPEAKER_00: But it it started in 2007 is when TMZ started, but it wasn't until 2021, where I'm I'm finally doing some research, right?
49:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh, right.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm on the ASCAT website and I'm looking through it.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wait a minute, these numbers kind of don't add up, right?
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Because I had there's three different shows, and it something's not adding up.
49:58
SPEAKER_00: The money didn't look right, right?
50:00
SPEAKER_00: So what what in in in the end, what turned out to be was I was only being paid for TMZ.
50:07
SPEAKER_00: I was never paid for TMZ Sports or TMZ Live.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: How could they do that?
50:13
SPEAKER_00: That didn't seem right.
50:15
SPEAKER_03: That didn't seem right.
50:16
SPEAKER_03: How do you dispute that?
50:17
SPEAKER_03: Do you need a lawyer or what do you do?
50:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm still it I'm kind of still, it's not over yet.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh but I did kind of, you know, I did kind of um because the way it works out is between me and this company that has the that owns the music library, I give them the music, they license the music because they produce TMZ shows, right?
50:39
SPEAKER_00: So we kind of work together.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: And they helped this company Ask Cap pays us, right?
50:44
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: So the discrepancy was between me and this company together versus ASCAP.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: Dang.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: But ASCAP said in the end, when I when I found out this that there was a problem and I told Warner Brothers, now I'm telling Warner Brothers, not only did I not get paid, but you didn't get paid, right?
51:02
SPEAKER_00: Because we we share 50% of the writers' credit or the the um what's it called?
51:09
SPEAKER_00: The um uh profit.
51:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sort of.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: So so I'm telling them, hey, we got a we have a problem against ASCAP, right?
51:17
SPEAKER_00: Now they care.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: Now they well, yeah, and they did, and they they proved to me that they did their homework and they did everything they were supposed to do.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: I proved that I had everything.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: So now it's us against ASCAP.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: So ASCAP says if you look in the small print, it says that if you have a problem beyond two years or something like that, then it's too bad, there's nothing we can do about it.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm this is a seven-year period I'm talking about, right?
51:42
SPEAKER_00: So they're telling me that five years, I'm just gonna lose five years, right?
51:47
SPEAKER_00: But the but but the small print was was really saying if there was a discrepancy between me and ASCAP, the problem wasn't there.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: The problem was between me or me and this other company.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: No, no, I'm I'm sorry, I said that wrong.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: The problem they were saying if that I have a if I had a problem with the production company, if we had an issue, then it's our issue to work out.
52:12
SPEAKER_00: But that wasn't the problem.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: The problem was they started having people work at home in 2020 during COVID.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: Mistakes started to be in started to be made.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we lost a lot.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: So they basically told me those five years, done, lost.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, where's the money then?
52:29
SPEAKER_00: Because there was money made.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: So what happened to it?
52:32
SPEAKER_00: So back to your question, that's one of the things you have to know.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: You have to do your own homework, you have to realize nobody's your friend, it's just you.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: And they don't care, nobody cares.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that yeah, you sound seems like they ought to help be a little more helpful than they are.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: You would think, but yeah, it's it's it's business and is their cutthroat, it's cutthroat business.
52:56
SPEAKER_00: It's not always fun.
53:00
SPEAKER_03: No, it's not fun.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you've created the Inside Notes podcast.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: What made you want to start your own podcast, and what do you want people to take away from it?
53:10
SPEAKER_00: That was created because um, and that that was basically outside of the sync licensing thing.
53:16
SPEAKER_00: That's back to the to the church and live musician thing.
53:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was just because, you know, musicians, we always have conversations behind the scenes about the things that we go through.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: They're good conversations too.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna hang out with them.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: There's some good conversations, but we have a lot of meat there.
53:34
SPEAKER_00: We always keep them so quiet, right?
53:36
SPEAKER_00: So I thought, you know what, let me just do it, let me have a podcast and talk about this stuff openly, right?
53:42
SPEAKER_00: And and honestly.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's where it came from.
53:45
SPEAKER_00: That was the idea.
53:48
SPEAKER_03: So your podcast called Inside Notes is based on insider information, you know, with the stories that you share with your musicians.
53:55
SPEAKER_03: What is one inside note that you can share with us today that most people outside of the music industry industry probably wouldn't even know or understand?
54:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, specifically with church situations.
54:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, not just church, but just live music.
54:13
SPEAKER_00: So not sync license.
54:15
SPEAKER_00: This is for live musicians.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: Live musicians, yeah.
54:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, things, things like money, that's always an issue.
54:22
SPEAKER_00: We always talk about that stuff behind the scenes.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: There's always, you know, issues where we feel like we're not being treated fairly, you know, those kinds of things.
54:33
SPEAKER_00: That's always an issue.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: In fact, a question I've always had is um like being a live musician.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: I had this question.
54:41
SPEAKER_00: I said, well, 20 years ago, for or 30 years ago, which is when I basically started, you know, being a full-time musician, a McDonald's employee 30 years ago, what did they make back then, 30 years ago?
54:55
SPEAKER_00: What was minimum wage back then, right?
54:57
SPEAKER_00: Whatever they got paid things an hour or something.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Offer a McDonald's employee that number today.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: It wouldn't happen, right?
55:05
SPEAKER_00: It's because the price of living has gone up, right?
55:09
SPEAKER_00: But why don't people admit that life or or the cost of living has gone up for musicians too?
55:14
SPEAKER_00: We're still offered the same range of the same structure, yeah.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's out of church and in church.
55:22
SPEAKER_00: Church is it's across the board.
55:25
SPEAKER_00: We're still stuck in this little box of$200-ish.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: Ish.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: But why?
55:31
SPEAKER_00: Why?
55:32
SPEAKER_00: This is not 30 years ago.
55:33
SPEAKER_00: Why am I offered the same money today that I was offered 30 years ago?
55:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
55:39
SPEAKER_00: Why?
55:40
SPEAKER_00: Nobody can answer that question.
55:43
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
55:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I I maybe I shouldn't say anything, but I think churches, they just they don't really, they're not, they don't keep up with the times.
55:54
SPEAKER_01: I don't think they realize what they're doing.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: They just think, oh, I'm being so generous, you know, giving you this.
56:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I you know, the fact that you're getting anything, you're we're being generous.
56:04
SPEAKER_01: And they don't take into consideration all the, you know, all that's involved.
56:08
SPEAKER_03: I think they rely on young people who haven't experienced a lot and they burn them out.
56:18
SPEAKER_03: Where when you get seasoned people who's been around this corner a few times and been promised the moon and stars, and then that person gets fired, and then you know, it's a roller coaster effect.
56:28
SPEAKER_03: You you you make nothing, and then you move up, and then somebody comes along, then you make nothing, and then you move up.
56:34
SPEAKER_03: And it's like at certain point of time, you get tired of it, you get burnt out, yeah.
56:39
SPEAKER_03: You feel like you're not appreciated, you feel like the major people on top don't even realize what's going on.
56:44
SPEAKER_03: And if they do, they're not doing anything, so they probably don't even care.
56:49
SPEAKER_03: And at the end of the day, you know, the the budget for the the property expenses needs to go higher, the budget for the for the senior, you know, person in charge needs to go higher, the the guest speaker, you know, you gotta pay them.
57:03
SPEAKER_03: Everybody makes more and more and more, and it's just one of those things where I think like Rob and Reg mentioned that on a previous podcast, somebody's not squeaking the wheel loud enough in that department.
57:16
SPEAKER_03: Because if in general, if church had a really hard time every single Sunday finding a guitar guy and a keyboard guy and a drum guy, and there was, you know, there was nobody there doing it, you know, that would speak a little bit louder than, oh, well, at least I get my face seen on on uh their website today.
57:35
SPEAKER_03: And you know, maybe I might, you know, get invited to a gig afterwards because you know I said yes.
57:40
SPEAKER_03: And you know, people they rely on those pipe dreams that sometimes don't always, you know, turn out.
57:46
SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right.
57:49
SPEAKER_03: You aren't going any deeper on that.
57:54
SPEAKER_00: No, no, well, it was one thing you said.
57:56
SPEAKER_00: This may be off off topic, but um That's fine.
58:00
SPEAKER_00: Because you mentioned like uh if if they need when churches may need a guitar player, they may need a keyboard player here and there.
58:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, I've I've had this is like I said, this is off topic though, right?
58:12
SPEAKER_00: But I've always had issues with the fact that that people think, and this may be only in church I've seen this happen where they think where you can just plug in, you know, a musician here and there.
58:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we need a guitar player.
58:25
SPEAKER_00: Come on, come play with us today.
58:26
SPEAKER_00: This is in church.
58:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't think, I don't think that works.
58:30
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't think the whole system of of um, well, who's on schedule this week to play?
58:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we got this guitar this week, we got that this guitar player next week, and then we and just mixing it, mixing and matching all these musicians, I think it doesn't work.
58:46
SPEAKER_00: Because like if if the example is if you have a basketball team, you have five players in the basketball team, right?
58:54
SPEAKER_00: They take two separate teams.
58:56
SPEAKER_00: One team practices together, they have been playing together for five years, they know each other, right?
59:01
SPEAKER_00: Then you have this other team.
59:02
SPEAKER_03: They're a team, they're a team.
59:04
SPEAKER_00: They're a team, yeah.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: But you have this other team where they kind of you plug in different players here and there.
59:09
SPEAKER_00: There's a different team every week.
59:11
SPEAKER_00: The team that's been a team forever, they're gonna win because they know each other, right?
59:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
59:16
SPEAKER_00: So this whole system is that's been new for me, also being in Phoenix is or being in Arizona, is I've seen that a lot to where they just plug and play all these musicians.
59:27
SPEAKER_00: And like sometimes I'm playing with people, I'm thinking, like, I don't, I don't know you, but but the churches may they don't know that that's an issue.
59:36
SPEAKER_00: Like when we're playing together, I have to know as if I'm a keyboard player and you're a bass player, for example.
59:43
SPEAKER_00: You gotta vibe in jail.
59:44
SPEAKER_00: You gotta know.
59:45
SPEAKER_00: You have to know where I'm I'm going because you have to play the bass that's gonna support the cores that I'm playing.
59:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, it has to, we have to go together.
59:52
SPEAKER_00: If you're a basketball team, it went a fast break.
59:55
SPEAKER_00: If I if I throw a no-look pass to you, you have to be expected because you know me.
59:59
SPEAKER_00: But if you don't know me, right, I'm gonna throw it's gonna hit you in the face, right?
1:00:03
SPEAKER_01: And and people don't think that way for you almost have to be a mind reader, know what's what's gonna happen next.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_03: Some of those good musicians, they have eye contact on stage beyond like some of their eye contact.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_03: And and I've noticed even being a stage manager of like, you know, maybe trying to put this person here and this person there.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_03: That's not gonna work because now this person needs to turn around to get eye contact.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, the way that they can't, you know, good musicians, they can, you know, read each other and you know, start with no words, they just know where they're gonna go next.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they do.
1:00:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's you know, that's the equivalent of you know having people that know what they're doing or having a you know, a Michelin star restaurant and your your lead chef walked out, and now you're trying to hire somebody from McDonald's to get you through and you're wondering why things aren't going what right.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_03: It's like there's nothing wrong with the guy at McDonald's, it's just it's not his league, and you know, it's not that caliber, it's different.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_00: But now I'll I'll I can say something else that'll probably kill my whole argument, though.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_00: My own argument, right?
1:01:04
SPEAKER_00: So if you if you have the system to where everything is planned, you have the whole script, like and you have planning center, which tells everybody exactly what they're gonna play and exactly what's expected.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_00: Do you have to know the other musicians?
1:01:19
SPEAKER_00: Because we all have the script up front.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_00: Unless you go to a spontaneous situation, that's when you have to know each other, which is the next question.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_00: I probably shouldn't be the one asking the questions, but I'm just this is just the kind of things that we talk about on inside notes, right?
1:01:35
SPEAKER_00: So if you have a spontaneous situation, you have you guys have to know each other, right?
1:01:41
SPEAKER_00: But if you don't have a spontaneous situation that you can get by, because Ableton is really the leader.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_03: And that saves a lot of musicians because I've seen where so I've seen where good musicians get on stage and in between rehearsal time, they're vibing together, they're they're creating tunes and they're doing stuff, and then you look around at the other musicians and they're on their phones with their heads down and they don't know where to fit in because it's not a tune they've played before, and they're not used to, you know, going outside the box.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_03: And you really read the true musicians during those moments because while that guy has his head in his phone, he's saying so many things about I'm not that talented to play with you guys right now.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_03: But then that same guy is gonna be able to, you know, somehow be some sort of director at some sort of capacity and tell you that you're playing in the wrong key.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_03: I've seen it, yeah, yeah.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, this don't make no dang sense.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so so the the question I've I've asked the last few years is since I've been with both types of churches, right?
1:02:49
SPEAKER_00: The question is, is there a right way or a wrong way in the church?
1:02:53
SPEAKER_00: Is the spontaneous way, is that necessarily the right way, or is the planned way, which like who's right?
1:03:00
SPEAKER_00: Is anybody right?
1:03:01
SPEAKER_03: I think you need both.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_03: I think the spontaneous and being led by God moments coming from the authentic smaller churches, I think that's good.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_03: But also the organization coming from the larger churches is also really good.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_03: So we need to somehow implement the organization in the smaller churches and also allow the freedom in the larger churches and learn from each other, but I don't feel like we're doing that.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_03: We're just like, we do it better this way, we do it better this way, and nobody's really like, you know, why can't we do it both?
1:03:33
SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah, why why can't we have both?
1:03:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we've been we've been doing it this way so long.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_03: Let's do something different and try it out.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're a musician from a more spontaneous background, and then you're thrown into the other, the the structured situation, you can make it pretty good, right?
1:03:54
SPEAKER_00: Because you're used to doing things on the fly.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_00: So you put them in a in a uh structured situation, they can get by.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, because I mean it's a little bit of a struggle because they have to stick to a strip.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh stick to a script, but they can do it because they've they're used to much uh worse, right?
1:04:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_00: But if you take the structured musician and put them in the spontaneous situation, what happens?
1:04:17
SPEAKER_00: I remember there was a situation at a church that we worked at together before where I was the new guy on the spot, right?
1:04:25
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I didn't I didn't know, I didn't know that Ableton was running everything, right?
1:04:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, this story.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_00: That was only, I think, my second Sunday there, I think.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_00: Like it was really early on, right?
1:04:39
SPEAKER_00: So where this the stage was so wide that we we didn't have that eye contact you talked about because it was it was too far away, right?
1:04:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_00: So we were when we did the planning before the service, right?
1:04:50
SPEAKER_00: They would sit around and they would talk about, okay, you know, they would have the paper, okay, um four or five.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_00: We'll do the first song, and then then Rob, then you stop Ableton, and then you know, we'll do some announcements, then you start the second song, and we'll do that song, then we stop again, and it was this back and forth.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking the whole time, I don't remember none of this stuff.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm just used to, I'm we're just gonna go for it.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't really know what you guys just say.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna have to rely on Jake to be in my ears until you used to get me out of some spots sometimes when you say that.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_00: I just keep going.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_00: I go, okay, you saved me a lot.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_00: But but this particular time, I didn't really remember.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_00: So the bass player, he was so far away, and we got to the end of the first song, and I was thinking, am I supposed to stop?
1:05:32
SPEAKER_00: Am I supposed to stop the tracks?
1:05:34
SPEAKER_00: Or because I didn't know that Ableton was running the lights.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_00: It was Ramon.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_00: I I thought it was just the tracks.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_03: It was Ramon that was telling you though.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't gonna say his name.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_00: You said it.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_03: I know Ramon though.
1:05:46
SPEAKER_03: Me and Ramon Ramon Ramon loves me.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_03: I yeah, he did, yeah.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_00: Ramon, he was, but he was too far away, so he kind of motioned to me, you know, like he went like, right?
1:05:56
SPEAKER_00: And I thought I had to think, what does that mean?
1:05:58
SPEAKER_00: Does that mean stop the Tracks or don't stop the tracks.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_00: I think he was saying keeping don't remember, don't stop the tracks.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, oh, he must he said stop the tracks.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_00: He was listening.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_00: I hit the space bar.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_00: Boom.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_00: I hit the space bar, the lights stopped, the words on the screen stopped.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_00: Everything just came to a I didn't know, I had no idea, right?
1:06:19
SPEAKER_00: I just knew that I was hitting that space bar.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_00: But when I did that, the worship pastor, he goes into like a spot, because he thought that everything crashed.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_00: So he goes into a spontaneous start singing thing.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_00: And everybody else, except for maybe Ramon, but the other musicians, they had this look like, like, oh my God, what do we do now?
1:06:37
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:06:37
SPEAKER_00: And me and Ramon were like, hey, because you know, what's his name was singing?
1:06:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm used to this.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_00: Let's just go on the fly.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm good, right?
1:06:45
SPEAKER_00: It's not that type of church.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_03: It was good.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_03: You did great.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_03: Wrong restaurant.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_00: But the look on their eyes was like, oh my god, what are we gonna do without Ableton?
1:06:56
SPEAKER_00: What do we do?
1:06:57
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, hey, I don't need Ableton.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_00: I could just play.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_00: But they, yeah, they weren't uh, it didn't work out that way, right?
1:07:04
SPEAKER_00: Everything prepared.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_00: So it was a big, it was a big crash.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_00: It was a big, big uh train wreck.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_00: I had no idea.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_00: You you got called back.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't your last Sunday.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_00: No, it wasn't.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was that was I think that was my second Sunday.
1:07:19
SPEAKER_00: I think.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_03: There was some grace.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_03: There was a meeting, but there was some grace.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, because I admit it, because when we all got called into the office, like kids getting called to the principal's office, we got caught in.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_00: So he says, Well, what happened?
1:07:31
SPEAKER_00: Did Ableton crash?
1:07:33
SPEAKER_00: And I I thought about it.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_00: I said, I could say, I could just lie and say, Oh yeah, Ableton crashed.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't know what happened.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_00: I thought, nah, I bet just tell the truth.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, it didn't crash.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_00: I kind of got confused and I hit the space bar and it's all it's that's why I was offered grace, I guess.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_00: Because I admitted it, you know, it was a mistake.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_03: So I heard that you uh you teach classes for people who's interested in getting started in sync licensing.
1:08:03
SPEAKER_03: You want to tell us a little bit more about that?
1:08:05
SPEAKER_03: Plug it, and you know, maybe you might have some future students.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_00: It's not necessarily um it started out that way.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_00: It's it did start out as a as a mentor type thing.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_00: Now it's a it's a uh course that I have that I sell on on the website, and it it you know tells people how to get started and it and you know, some guidelines on how to put the tracks and stuff together.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, and it's on the website, track shackstudios.com.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_03: Track Shack Track Uh T-R-A-K.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I found that out when I was writing this out.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_03: I was like, wait a minute, that don't even look right.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_03: My dyslexia was playing with me.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_03: I was like, wait a minute.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_01: If uh you could go back and talk to the young Rob Miller, you know, a few years ago, the kid who picked up that baritone horn and eventually became the professor, what would you tell him?
1:08:59
SPEAKER_01: Do you have some words of uh wisdom?
1:09:01
SPEAKER_01: I gotta hear this.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_00: I would tell him, well, the the kid that had the baritone, I would tell him, go ahead and take music seriously now.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_00: Don't waste time because I wasted a lot of years not being serious, right?
1:09:18
SPEAKER_00: So I would tell him to take it seriously, get get started now.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_00: Take it seriously.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not he really that deep.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's it's that simple.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_00: I was not serious about it, you know, when I was, you know, playing the baritone and yeah, I was even when I was playing drums and I went to MI, I'm at MI, I'm at, you know, musicians institutes.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm around all these you know famous people would come through and they would, you know, do the teaching, they were the professors and stuff.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, you know, I'm not really taking this that serious, right?
1:09:50
SPEAKER_00: But for whatever reason.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_00: So I would tell them, take it seriously.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_00: This can be a real thing.
1:09:56
SPEAKER_00: But remember, I was um I came from, you know, my parents whose background was music is not you know real.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_00: Making a living is is not a real thing.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_00: So that's in the back of my mind.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_00: I would tell them, forget that.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_00: Take it seriously.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_03: Your parents didn't think that you could make a living off of music.
1:10:14
SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily that I that I couldn't, just that it was, you know, they didn't come from that generation to where, you know, but I was always thinking, you know, when I watch TV and movies, somebody's making that music.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_00: Somebody has to make that music, right?
1:10:29
SPEAKER_00: Because that's all I ever, you know, I can I can watch a whole show and hear nothing but music.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't hear the dialogue.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_00: I can just just all I focus on is the music.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_00: Somebody had to be making that music.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_00: Why can't it be me?
1:10:41
SPEAKER_00: Why can't I be one of them?
1:10:42
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_00: But I didn't think that when I was young, though.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_00: It took a long time.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I look at shows differently than you do because I come from a different perspective.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_01: But when I watch TV shows and movies, I'm looking at the camera work, I'm looking at the lighting, I'm listening to the sound, uh, you know, and it's I I I I I've ruined it for my wife.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_01: I say, okay, there they're in a they're in a studio, they're not really outside.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_01: And this is day for night.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've I've ruined it for her, but she she's now time, she gets to the place.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a day for night scene.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_01: That's uh, and so you know, I've kind of moved her along a little bit.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I I'm I'm like you, I I I pick out different things to watch and listen for because that's that's what I've done, you know, production.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_00: So are you well for me with music, because you know, I've done nothing but music, and that's what I do every day.
1:11:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't listen to music in my spare time.
1:11:43
SPEAKER_00: So do like, do do are you able to turn it off after you know you're done working or whatever?
1:11:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm able to turn, I have to turn the music off.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't listen to music in the car.
1:11:54
SPEAKER_00: Most people would think it's all music for me, but it's not.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't listen to music music.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_00: You gotta have some quiet time.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_00: All the time.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's talk radio for me.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to hear music because it's all day for me.
1:12:05
SPEAKER_00: And if there is music playing, like if there was music playing in the background right now, I would hear that as much as I hear you talking.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_00: My my my mind, I would automatically focus on the music.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_00: I can't listen to it.
1:12:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, in fact, last night I was uh, you know, I had my phone, I had my ear buzzing to go to sleep with, right?
1:12:22
SPEAKER_00: It's usually, you know, some podcast or something.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, so last night I tried to put on, it was called something called sleep music or whatever, right?
1:12:30
SPEAKER_00: What?
1:12:31
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna try this, right?
1:12:32
SPEAKER_00: So I put it on and I could it it couldn't work.
1:12:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, I'm I'm trying to go to sleep, but I'm thinking, that sounds like that sounds like B flat.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_00: It could have gone, you know what I mean?
1:12:43
SPEAKER_00: It's just driving me crazy.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_00: So I had to I had to turn it on.
1:12:46
SPEAKER_03: So it's like work, listening to music sounds like work.
1:12:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so if you're on the visual side of it, are you able to to turn it off or does that matter for you?
1:12:55
SPEAKER_01: Um no, I don't turn it off.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_01: I I walk into a um uh a building and I'm I'm visually looking at okay, looking at all the architecture, I'm looking at the lighting.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_01: How did they do this?
1:13:07
SPEAKER_01: How did they do that?
1:13:08
SPEAKER_01: How did they decorate?
1:13:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I it it's just constant.
1:13:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't shut it off.
1:13:13
SPEAKER_03: I do that at Disneyland when I'm on a ride.
1:13:15
SPEAKER_03: Oh heavens, yeah.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, the production guy becomes how they do that.
1:13:23
SPEAKER_01: That's why I can't, uh it's hard for me to go to a uh attend a church service because my mind isn't on what it's supposed to be on.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_01: I I'm looking and listening for everything else that I shouldn't be listening.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, yeah.
1:13:36
SPEAKER_01: So I I'm yeah.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_03: So um you kind of mentioned it with working with somebody else.
1:13:42
SPEAKER_03: Um, Ray asked you about like, do you just focus on sync music or do you have personal music?
1:13:47
SPEAKER_03: Um, do you actually have personal music that you work on that's you know, Rob's albums or Rob's songs or anything like that?
1:13:56
SPEAKER_00: Or you just no, I've I've never been able been able to do that.
1:14:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, people would ask me, it's been a while.
1:14:03
SPEAKER_00: People would ask me, you should you should do an album, you should do a a Christmas album.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_00: I I tried it with it.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_03: Instrumentals or something.
1:14:09
SPEAKER_00: I just can't no I don't know.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know why.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_00: I I'm more of a companyist type where I have to be playing for something.
1:14:20
SPEAKER_00: So like an instrumental album that just it just never it never interests me.
1:14:25
SPEAKER_00: You need more purpose, you need more purpose outside of myself, yeah.
1:14:29
SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah.
1:14:32
SPEAKER_03: After everything you accomplished, what's still on your musical bucket list that you know is out there that you haven't done yet, but you absolutely still want to do movies, movie scores.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that would be so cool.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_01: Cool, cool, cool Star Wars 15 or something, you know.
1:14:49
SPEAKER_01: Like soundtracks or what do you what do you mean?
1:14:51
SPEAKER_00: Like explain.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not like you know, the the you know, most movies have an an album to accompany the movie with a song.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_00: Not that, I mean like the actual score.
1:15:02
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm looking at what you have on that screen right there.
1:15:04
SPEAKER_00: I can score something to that.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I have a friend right now, he's doing a um, he's doing an album.
1:15:10
SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's a um RB album, right?
1:15:14
SPEAKER_00: But the the whole album is one love story, basically, right?
1:15:18
SPEAKER_00: It's a continuous story.
1:15:19
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
1:15:20
SPEAKER_00: So together with that, he's gonna have animated videos for each song, right?
1:15:26
SPEAKER_00: So there's a fight, there's a fight scene or something in between a couple of the songs.
1:15:30
SPEAKER_00: So he asked, just asked me a few weeks ago, would you want to do the score for the fight scenes?
1:15:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I would.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
1:15:37
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm I'm looking forward.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_00: You have to send that to me.
1:15:40
SPEAKER_00: I'll check that out for sure.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_00: I will, I will, I will.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's the outside of just tracks and you know, R B and pop stuff, yeah.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_00: I want to do like actual scoring for you know, movie to our sound for picture.
1:15:55
SPEAKER_00: Rather, yeah, yeah.
1:15:57
SPEAKER_03: That's really cool.
1:16:06
SPEAKER_03: All right, uh, we love to ask everybody the signature question.
1:16:09
SPEAKER_03: It's not even music related, so I'm sure you'll you're like this getting out, getting out of music, not having to think about it.
1:16:16
SPEAKER_03: Uh if you got one of the first questions with God, what do you what do you think you would ask him?
1:16:22
SPEAKER_03: Anything deep, funny, serious, God sitting right there.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_00: I I thought about this question.
1:16:30
SPEAKER_00: I'll answer it quick and we and get out of it because I don't want to get I don't You don't want to sit on it too much?
1:16:36
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't want to I don't want to tear up or nothing, right?
1:16:38
SPEAKER_00: So I wanna do this is gonna be quick.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_00: I thought about it.
1:16:41
SPEAKER_00: Should I say it?
1:16:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and just go ahead and see it.
1:16:46
SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, maybe the question would be I would ask him.
1:16:56
SPEAKER_00: Wait, hold on.
1:16:58
SPEAKER_03: I like this.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_03: I don't think anybody's giving it any thought.
1:17:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, nobody's ever, a lot of people's just thrown out like about mosquitoes or MMs.
1:17:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they don't stop and think about it like this.
1:17:11
SPEAKER_00: I got I got Reggie one time on the podcast.
1:17:13
SPEAKER_00: I had Reggie in tears on that last episode.
1:17:16
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I got him.
1:17:18
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:17:19
SPEAKER_00: So I would probably ask God, does the is is is my dad proud of me?
1:17:25
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:17:26
SPEAKER_03: Gotcha.
1:17:27
SPEAKER_03: I understand that.
1:17:29
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for your answer.
1:17:34
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:17:36
SPEAKER_03: Well sorry we we had to end it like that.
1:17:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's why we were answering that, but that's the real answer.
1:17:46
SPEAKER_03: I I see why you it was hard for you.
1:17:49
SPEAKER_03: I see why.
1:17:50
SPEAKER_03: This is your guest spotlight time.
1:17:52
SPEAKER_03: You can take 30 seconds, you can take two minutes, you can take whatever you like, Mr.
1:17:56
SPEAKER_03: Rob.
1:17:56
SPEAKER_03: Plug whatever you want, your business, your family, your links, shout-outs, any words for the wise.
1:18:02
SPEAKER_03: What you got for us?
1:18:04
SPEAKER_00: I I I've talked enough.
1:18:05
SPEAKER_00: But I I I have this this YouTube channel that I started about a month ago and trying to get off the ground.
1:18:11
SPEAKER_00: It's called It's called Working Dash Musician.
1:18:16
SPEAKER_03: Really?
1:18:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:17
SPEAKER_00: I just started it.
1:18:18
SPEAKER_00: I haven't talked about it.
1:18:20
SPEAKER_00: I haven't heard about this.
1:18:21
SPEAKER_00: I know you see you did your research, but you didn't get that.
1:18:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nobody really knows that.
1:18:25
SPEAKER_00: I just started it.
1:18:28
SPEAKER_00: It's called Working Dash Musician, right?
1:18:31
SPEAKER_00: And and it's just a regular YouTube channel where um lately I've I've only started, like I've done a bunch of um a bunch of YouTube shorts where I'm just playing, you know, popular songs or whatever on the panel.
1:18:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's basically it right now, right?
1:18:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get into um more I think instructional stuff about using Ableton and stuff for sync licensing.
1:18:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm just really uncomfortable being in front of the camera.
1:18:57
SPEAKER_00: It's just not comfortable for me being in front of the camera.
1:19:00
SPEAKER_00: This is kind of hard for me, right?
1:19:02
SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, that that I'm gonna get that off the ground for sure.
1:19:06
SPEAKER_00: And I do have, yeah, the the website um track shackstudios.com, T R A K-S-H-A-K Studios.com.
1:19:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, let's see, what else?
1:19:19
SPEAKER_00: My I have an IMDB page.
1:19:22
SPEAKER_00: Really?
1:19:23
unknown: Yeah.
1:19:24
SPEAKER_03: See, you are famous.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_03: See, you're over here saying you're not that famous.
1:19:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, yeah, it's but it is it's my full name.
1:19:33
SPEAKER_00: It's Robin Lewis Miller.
1:19:35
SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of humbling because I didn't know that when you have IMDB Pro, it it show it has a meter that shows you your popularity, right?
1:19:45
SPEAKER_00: Really?
1:19:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it fluctuates, it goes up and down, right?
1:19:48
SPEAKER_00: So when I first signed up to it, I was at like I was like 6.5 millionth on the list, right?
1:19:56
SPEAKER_00: That's that's how low I was, and it has a red arrow pointing down, meaning like you're you're on the bottom of the thing, right?
1:20:02
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:20:03
SPEAKER_00: So then it because you have to put your own credits in.
1:20:05
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen automatically.
1:20:06
SPEAKER_00: You have to put your own, but they have to be legit because they they cross-reference all your stuff.
1:20:10
SPEAKER_00: It has to be legit, right?
1:20:11
SPEAKER_00: So I put a bunch of my TV credits in, I shot up to like the top 400,000.
1:20:17
SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah, it was crazy, right?
1:20:19
SPEAKER_00: And then you check back in a week, back to five million.
1:20:22
SPEAKER_00: It's like up and down, it's crazy.
1:20:25
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's kind of fun to watch it.
1:20:27
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, Robin Lewis Miller on IMDB, and it shows some of the credit, maybe like 150 of the credit, because you can't put 16,000 credits, and this is ridiculous.
1:20:38
SPEAKER_00: In fact, Chat GPT said don't put all that stuff on here, just put some of your main credits on there and keep it simple.
1:20:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:20:45
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
1:20:46
SPEAKER_00: So there's that, and we have the Inside Notes podcast.
1:20:50
SPEAKER_03: The collaboration.
1:20:51
SPEAKER_00: The collaboration exactly.
1:20:53
SPEAKER_00: We have uh Jordy Mill TV, which is uh my son's um videography business, uh, where he and his girlfriend they do all the they they've done some big stuff too.
1:21:07
SPEAKER_00: He's kind of turned out to be like me too, where he doesn't talk about a lot of the things that he's done, but he's done some some stuff recently, some big stuff recently, right?
1:21:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Jordy Mill TV.
1:21:18
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna have to check out his Instagram page a little bit more because I I I quickly followed it while we were doing this, but I gotta dive deeper on that.
1:21:25
SPEAKER_03: Maybe he might be a next guest.
1:21:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:21:29
SPEAKER_00: All right, so that's that's about it.
1:21:31
SPEAKER_03: Jordy Mill TV?
1:21:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sweet.
1:21:35
SPEAKER_03: And then you can catch out the the video portion of this on the Track Shack uh YouTube page.
1:21:42
SPEAKER_00: There's a uh Inside Notes.
1:21:44
SPEAKER_00: Inside Notes channel.
1:21:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:21:46
SPEAKER_01: My bad.
1:21:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:21:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, folks, that's the wrap.
1:21:50
SPEAKER_01: You've just heard the final cut of episode 51, Inside Notes.
1:21:55
SPEAKER_01: We'd like to extend a huge thank you to Rob Miller of Track Shack Studios and the Inside Notes Podcast for joining us for this special collaboration.
1:22:05
SPEAKER_01: We truly enjoyed the experience, the conversation, and the opportunity to work together.
1:22:10
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being part of Unfit for Radio.
1:22:13
SPEAKER_03: Unfit for Radio Podcast, independently produced and listener supported.
1:22:18
SPEAKER_03: If you want to help you be a part of the fun, head over to unfitfor radio.buzzcrop.com and click that donation link.
1:22:28
SPEAKER_01: If you missed out, don't worry, you can always catch this episode along with all the others by searching for Unfit for Radio Inject on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, and wherever you listen to podcasts.
1:22:42
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1:22:45
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1:22:49
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1:22:51
SPEAKER_03: Email us over here at unfit4 radio show at gmail.com or text us here at the studio 602-767-3390.
1:23:03
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1:23:07
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1:23:10
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1:23:15
SPEAKER_01: Episode yes, be the good.