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Jack Gladfelter, Corban University · The Red Banner Race Report

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to the Red Banner Race Report Podcast, where we dive into the mindset, miles, and moments that make up NAIA cross-country and track and field.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: Our guest is Jack Gladfelter of Corbin University in Oregon.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: Last fall, Jack finished 11th at the NAIA National Championships in Tallahassee, Florida.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: He holds the Corbin Men's Cross Country Record, and throughout his career has received two USTF CCCA National Men's Runner of the Week honors.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: He was named the CCC Men's Runner of the Week, earned all conference honors and titles, and All-American Awards in both cross-country and track, and was named the CCC Men's Cross Country Runner of the Year.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: This fall, running 442 pace to finish in 2325, he broke the course record at the Winfield George Oja Invitational.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: This race performance is one of the fastest this season in the NAIA.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: With bests of 353 in the 1500, 1411 in the 5K, and 2943 in the 10K, he's got a large distance skill range on the track, earning all-American status in the 5 and 10K last spring at Outdoor Nationals and second in the Indoor National 5K in March.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Jack has a unique and positive perspective on just about everything, from his racing and training to his outlook on life in general.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: His faith is first and foremost in everything he does, and he's focused on living life to the fullest and doing so with joy.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: It is great.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: How's the uh life and the weather on the West Coast?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's been weird for October.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yesterday we had it 70 degrees out and sunny.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, same here in Michigan, which is not typical.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's been really weird the past.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Even just like months, we've had some days get up into the 80s, and it's been a consistent around the 70s, and so it's like, well, it's uh I would be surprised if uh the rest of the month and even going into October or November started look looking like this.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: So oh well, are you a fan or do you wish it was cooler?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's mixed.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you have mixed feelings.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I like I love the warm weather, don't get me wrong, but I like it when the weather's a little bit consistent because I'm also I I I follow skiing.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be a big skier, but now since being in college, I've gone nixed from doing that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: But I wonder why.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: But like I'm I'm so used to like now, it's kind of getting like end of October, especially where I'm from, is just like pretty like this is where the weather starts turning into snow season.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So and it has yet to do that.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just like, it's still it's so weird.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I do not mind because I will spend most of November through even into April and May in snow.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I'm not wishing the sunshine away, but I know for running people are tired of being sweaty and hot.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: So are you excited that Nationals is on your side of the country?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've always I've my freshman year, we had it over here as well, and I thought it was so cool because I'm originally from uh from Washington, so I was like, I see it as a little bit of home court advantage, but yeah, I'm really, really excited.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially the past few weeks, too.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: We've been going up there and doing workouts on the course.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's cool.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I remember how the course layout was my freshman year, and it's definitely come into perspective.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm now like the older one on the team, and I was like looking around and I was like, wow, I'm like the only one who ran on this course for my freshman year um on during one of the practices.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just weird, but it's I think it's really awesome that we have it, and it's like it's about an hour's drive for us to go and just have a workout or go do workouts up there and just kind of get a good feel.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And also it's really nice too.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: My brother lives up in the area and my sister-in-law, so I just go and visit them afterwards and I just spend the weekend up in Vancouver, and I just kind of get it.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I see it as like a little mini vacation for me, like every weekend or or so, every time we go up there and do workouts.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I was very disappointed because my son is the same age as you.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: He started as a freshman at Spring Arbor University.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, his freshman season, he should have made it to Nationals, but the night before their conference, he was hospitalized with food poisoning.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: So there's no way he could run.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we're talking like IVs on a bed, every admitted, everything.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: So he didn't get a chance to qualify.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Oh, don't worry, mom, because when I'm a senior, we're gonna be back there because I've always wanted to go.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like our plan was to go see like Hayward Field and kind of do a trip kind of along that area.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and prior to that in 2020, I was also supposed to go see the Olympic trials, and that was canceled because of COVID.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: So we had like struck out twice.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, then he's a senior, like I said, but he transferred this year to Lipscomb, which is uh an NCAA school.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: So he's not running in the NAI anymore, so I'm not even gonna get to I struck out all the time with that one, but I'm excited for you guys.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: It looks amazing.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping the weather is because November, like I said, like this has been such a weird October for us.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Usually by now it starts, it starts becoming rainy, like October, like mid to end is like cold and rainy for us over here, but it's been warm, and so I'm kind of nervous a little bit because I know November we're gonna have that cold rain hit.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And don't get me wrong, so I'm from Port Angeles, Washington, which is known for being rainy, you know, 10 nine to 10 months out of the year.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's just like I love the slop as much as anybody else, but I do love a nice cold like when it I think my freshman year, if I remember the weather correctly, it was a colder morning, but sunny.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was just that perfect like running temp where it was about 45, 50 degrees and sunny.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really hoping we get that this year, but well, let's hope it's not snow.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh you never know.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, yeah, Missouri, I think was it my sophomore junior year?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was freezing.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was freezing.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was brutal.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then last year was a little warmer than I think people expected.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it wasn't hot for Florida, but it was really humid.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: It it hit out of nowhere.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I was I remember that.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I remember post race.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: That was just my mom.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I walk up to my mom and I give her a hug, and she goes, she doesn't even say good orange.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, Oh, you're you're pale, Jack.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, thanks.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh huh.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm really hoping this year we get just just solid weather.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, from what I've heard from a lot of sources, like the NAI track and field central guys and um athletes who've done it before, which you know, there's not a large pool of those left, but they say anything can happen because it's a very quote true cross-country course.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm excited to see how it all plays out.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Anything can happen.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like that course, just I I do like that course.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of my teammates are like, why do you like this course?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I just I don't know.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have like some sentimental value to it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was my first nationals course, and now it's gonna be my, you know, like it's gonna be my last undergrad nationals course.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just kind of it's sentimental to me.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love that course.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think it goes without saying that you're going to place much higher than you did as a freshman.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: That was, I remember, I remember one thing.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was so our freshman year uh coach, our coach coach Stuart Egan, he goes, Okay, we need to go out and we need to be conservative.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we all took that way too literally.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I remember just I just remember going out and I was like, I thought where I was, I'm a freshman, I don't know any better, you know.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember I thought I was right where I need to be, you know, through the first 2K.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And my coach is yelling, you need to go, like, get up there.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're way behind, you're too far back.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I am, and so I started like moving and moving and moving, and then like I think I had the last like 2k or 1k.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I apparently had like one of the fastest closing laps or like the for the last lap.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: But that's because I saved so much energy going into that last lap that I just like I started drawing people in, but it was still just like my coach afterward was like, oh no.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I didn't mean that as like an insult to you.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: I meant like you have come a long way since you were a freshman.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you've improved so much.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I also like you were in your first year of collegiate racing.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, give yourself a break.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I there's a lot to learn.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: That story is just like a joke because it's just like I'm a freshman, I don't know between that.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I and now seeing it with the freshmen in our class too, I see the same thing.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like we have one freshman on our team, his name's Carson, and he is one of those guys, it's just like he's so eager, and I love his eagerness.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, it's like we were during a workout yesterday, and it was just a light tempo coming off of the race Saturday.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: It took me four days or three or four days to recover from it.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: But like, we were like, Yeah, we're just doing a light tempo, nothing insane.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, no faster than 530 pace.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then here we are, we're getting to like I have to do 10 miles worth of it, and we're already at mile four, dipping into 530.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, dude, let's like let's reel it back, like let's dial it back a little bit.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So no, I I've definitely yeah, it's fun to look back at the past four years.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I I think my son got a taste of that.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: So at the national meet last fall in um, was it how you say it?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Alachua.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Alachua?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: One of the two.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, he was like 137th.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: His big thing is he's a negative splitter.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's just always been his thing since high school.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: We used to call him the human metronome because he just could like crank out those super consistent miles, which is not something that comes very easily to most people.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: I could never do that.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but he was like 130 something at the mile.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: And my husband and I were like, there's no way, there's no way he's gonna get all American.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that was not what he had really planned to do, to be that far back, but he was able to just work up enough.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: But um he just ran, uh, was it two weeks ago at Nutty Comb, which is a big D1 race.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was kind of their plan.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: It was to be a little more conservative, and that does not work with those level of runners.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: And they didn't, I think they learned an important lesson, which was we can't make that time up no matter how much faster we get, because they've already gone so fast at mile one that there's just no room for error.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, there's just there's nothing you can do about it.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even if you had such a fast closing kick, there is nothing you could do about it because that time's already.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dropped.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, that's not to downplay negative splitting, it's a great strategy that pays a lot of dividends, but yeah.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: So and it wasn't just him, it was like across his whole team.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: So important lesson there.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: But yep.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: So it'll be interesting to see what happens at nationals.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's let's dive into um, you know, your career and what your training looks like and some of your goals on your radar.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: So let's talk first, though.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: How did you get into running cross-country and track field?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how did it all begin?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a great question.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love telling this story because it's a really funny story.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So pretty much like my whole life, I was I was like a multi-sport athlete.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just did everything that I could, whether it was like soccer with the YMCA or basketball with the YMCA or skiing from a very young age.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was one of those like kids who was three years old, bombing it down blue runs, you know, cutting the lines um at the local, our local little um ski hill that we had up at Hurricane Ridge.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just did everything.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then it wasn't until like middle school I was more interested in soccer.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I had this goal.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to play the for the Seattle Sounders, and I was like, I can do this, like I want to go play for them.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I joined club and I'm in middle school, and I'm I'm like thinking about it.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: My sister ran college at Eastern Washington University.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh, and my brother, he's about a year and a half older than me.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was a grade above me, and he ran.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so going to my seventh grade year, I was like, I'll I'll give it a try.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just see what happens.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I didn't want to be the youngest one left out.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember that first year, the first half of the races, I was just doing it for fun.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was out there just having fun.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And but then the second half of my seventh grade year, I started like improving like a lot.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember my times, but I just remember race-wise, I was starting to get closer and closer to the front pack and stuff.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like sooner or later, I was on our varsity team for middle school, and you know, because it's middle school running, it's like but I was on our varsity team, and I was so just like I was like, wait, like this could be serious.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's kind of how I started getting into running.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was literally just because of my brother and sister, and I saw them, and I'm like, I don't want to be left out, like I I want to join it.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just kind of like monkey see monkey do, you know.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I always looked up to my older siblings and seeing my sister run in college.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I remember being young and just going to the meets and just watching her race, um, whether it was out in you know, Chini at their home meet, or we'd go to Idaho, or they'd go to the UW indoor facility up at Dempsey.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just I just remember going to that stuff.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of like the the seed plant a little bit, but then it was just you know seeing my brother do it, and I was like, oh, I want to be like my brother, and so who's faster now?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, definitely me.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't until like eighth grade year I started just I started really just like doing doing really well.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he was a freshman.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then once I got into freshman year, that's when like he he he didn't take it as seriously, and he's a different build than I am.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: He ended up becoming a Marine, and he's just like he's built like my grandpa, who's just this stocky, bigger guy, and I built like my my dad's side of the family work, were long and skinny and lengthy, more like basketball players, too.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like my dad never ran, my mom never ran uh distance or any of those, and so we always make the joke.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Jack, we really don't know where you got the running stuff from.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: So well, it was just meant to be.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the same way, neither one of my parents were runners, so it's kind of funny how that plays out.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you can correct me on any of these stats if I'm wrong, yeah, because you know the internet isn't always 100% correct.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: But so you started out in 2023 with a collegiate debut of 2535, and then you work down to your recent best across your career of 2325.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: So, what have been the biggest physical or mental breakthroughs that you think have made the difference specifically this fall that have taken your running to where you're getting this national recognition and you're you know, you're in the mix for like winning it all?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really, really good question.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'll start off on the physical side because the mental side's definitely it's a lot more, but the physical aspect of it is it's just taking care of my body.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it sounds simple, but there's a lot more to it.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's just uh a lot of it that's been that I've made a major change is in what I eat.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've kind of started turning to this more like super healthy, like holistic way of eating.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have completely like cut out seed oils, I've completely cut out processed stuff.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I spend a little extra and get organic foods, and that was like one of the big first steps.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of started doing that at the beginning of this year, so last track season or during indoor, and that just made a world of difference.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just had more energy, I felt better, which was just like I didn't realize how much of a difference that could make.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there it was just like, okay, like now let's, you know, it's the the PT stuff.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So whether it's like taking care of my body, doing a lot of like stuff that my physical trainer has given me in the past because you know, my freshman sophomore year and a little bit of junior year, but mainly in freshman sophomore year was just trying to figure out like what was wrong with my body.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I had a bunch of knee stuff and my left side and hip stuff and glute stuff and ankle stuff, which it's not new for me, but it was just being on a consistent routine of doing that.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think like the third and final thing was like physically was just kind of getting rest.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like sleep was so important to me last year.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, being in college, like freshman, sophomore here, I had a few late nighters.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be real.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're college kids, we want to go out and hang out with friends, whether that's going to get ice cream late at night or stay up and watch movies or whatever.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was like it was really just like sleep that made the world a difference.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I've gotten on this routine, especially now, still, is uh I am up no later than 10 o'clock.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have a set time, 9 30 is when I should be in bed at the latest.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I sleep until 6 30, 7 o'clock in that range, and I feel just great.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the physical aspect of it is literally just taking care of the simple parts because it's just gonna make a world of difference.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that was like that, that was the coolest part.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like finally being able to figure out the food food stuff was the biggest thing because you know, we got to eat a lot of food, but at the same time, you don't want to be eating like you know, garbage is I call it.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be eating all this stuff that's seed oils, um, processed foods.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I I rarely eat that stuff.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have like veggies in my fridge or like for lunch, and you know, like I I this is a really like hot topic for me, but chicken.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't eat chicken because the way, unless it's like I know where it is and it's like grown or it's like been they've been fed in like a local farm.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where that chicken has been.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just like I just like I stick to like organic ground beef and just really just using that extra time just to be like, okay, what is gonna benefit me?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: What is gonna help me?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just that's been the physical aspect part of it that's kind of definitely helped me a lot.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think mental aspect, at least for me, is being from a Christian, you know, school is my walk in my faith.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's definitely been the mental aspect because a lot of other schools or a lot of other people, when they go and they toe the line, they have all this pressure on them.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, I want to do good and I want to hit this certain time, and if I don't race well, you know, I might lose my scholarship, or I have all these people counting on me versus like being here at Corbin.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in my faith, especially too, it's like I know that as soon as I toe the line, the race has already won.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: I have nothing else, no pressure, because if I have a bad race, at the end of the day, I'm still gonna go out and glorify Christ in doing so.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still gonna go and and and show the love of Christ to others.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if I do have a great race, it's still gonna be the same outcome.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like recently, what I've been doing, and this has been something that's been put on my heart, is is just after races, I just go out and I just start getting people.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm having a prayer circle.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Come join, come join, come join.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I did this at our first race opening sea uh to open the season for me this year, and it was at Bush Park, and I was on pace to have like a really good race.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was feeling really good, and I could feel it in my body.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I had about like a 20 plus second, 15, 20 second lead on everybody, and the lead bike took me down the wrong path.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, it was it was it was it sucked.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I realized that they were yelling at me, you're going down the wrong path, and I go, Oh, great.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have to make up another 75 meters and get back to the top pack and waste so much energy.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And like I was in a really good rhythm, and so that just lost a lot of like the momentum.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I ended up placing fifth and stuff, but afterwards I was still like, hey, come join this prayer circle, come join this prayer circle.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I using that as the opportunity to go out and share the gospel with people, and you couldn't you couldn't have tell tell that I was somebody who got let off 75 meters.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I know a lot of people, even my coach was saying this.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: He said, like, yeah, if I'd if that happened to me, I would be furious.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But afterwards, I was like, at the end of the day, it's like it happened.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny looking back on it.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think in the moment I was just kind of like, It's whatever, like, yeah, it's a little frustrating, but it's not the end all be all, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I still have other races, but besides that, it's just like that's the my faith being able to do that and just share the gospel with people and use it as there's so much more to running than running, is what I've been saying.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I agree.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think like you can look at this from a Christian worldview and a secular worldview as well, is there's so much more to running than running.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's like if you're trying to, if you're trying to, oh, like I need to win every race, it's like okay, but are you having fun?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Are you enjoying what you're doing?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: My teammate says this, said this.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: We were having a conversation on one of our long runs, and he said the most important thing it's like with life or with work in general, we were talking about work stuff.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you love what you're doing for your work, you'll never work a day in your life.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a pretty popular quote as well.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you love your work, you'll never work a day of your day in your life.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the way I see running.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if I'm in the point where winning's controlling everything, and then I get anxious and have these pre-race anxieties and get so stressed out where I just don't like and or enjoy running, then I'm doing it for the wrong reasons.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: Agreed.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know who Eric Little is?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard I've heard of Eric Little, yeah.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: So he was a um Olympic champion.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he was also a missionary, and he refused to run on Sunday because he didn't feel that that was, you know, congruent with his faith.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: So he chose to do a different event, ended up winning the gold.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: But um, his famous quote, which I really love and has resonated with me most of my life, is um, God made me fast, and when I run, I can feel his pleasure.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that you can coexist in both of those places, like wanting to to honor God and to be true to your faith, but also loving the gifts he's given you and wanting to do the best that you can with them.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: And winning isn't wrong, it's fun, right?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: But like you said, it's not everything.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like my my girlfriend who runs at Olivet Nazarene University, uh, she's told me this.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like my favorite times or my best times are not the times that I've ran, but it's spent with my teammates.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like that's the way I look at it.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love my team and then I love my friends.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, like, yeah, like going out and racing a twenty or running a 23-26, like like that shows at the same time, like you can still perform at a highest level and be competitive, but at the same time, still love running like as much as somebody who's just getting into it.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the way that's like the whole thing, I think that's like the biggest mental thing is my walk in my faith has pretty much changed my running and changed my output on it.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Being like, it's not about me, it's about going out there and like showing the love of Christ to others and what I do in running.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard to do when you think about it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, well, we're just running.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: How can we, you know, show Christ when we're running, or how can we love others while running?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the actions beforehand and the actions afterwards that really show.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was at this running camp with athletes in action.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was a camp counselor through them, and it was a great experience.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: I got to, you know, intermix running and the faith-centered stuff.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it was up in Michigan at Hope College, which was beautiful area, beautiful area.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: But like that was like the biggest thing.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's running for an audience of one.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, in the end.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in the end, it's running for and that just changed my whole perspective on it.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And like, so now like that's what that's the way I see it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I think I have a lot of a different perspective than a lot of runners do because you know, I don't I'm nationals couldn't anything could happen with nationals, but I just know at the end of the day, I'm still gonna go out there and do this for the glory of God and just go out and just share the gospel with people.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so at peace with it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I think too, like we all have our gifts and talents, and that's where God places us to do that.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that could be on a cross-country course, that could be in an office, that could be on a school bus, that could be anywhere.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't think you have to, you know, pigeonhole to a church or you know, street evangelism or whatever it might be.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: So different.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's what I would say to answer that question.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I saved it for the second one.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's just I'm so passionate about it.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: So well, and that's the way it should be.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: If you truly believe that this is life-changing, you want to share that.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, you know, that that's that speaks volumes.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I I love hearing that.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, well, I guess more statistical question here.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: What does a week of training typically look like for you?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you don't have to give us all your secrets, but it's interesting when other runners listen, they like to hear what their um, you know, compadres, so to speak, are doing.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love I I do like this question because I've had people ask me, like, what is a week of training?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll give I'll give two.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give my off-season training so like my summer training, and then kind of like what a regular week looks like.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: So training like this summer, I was doing a lot of just single long runs, and they were all at qual, I call them quality, so around like as close to the low six pace.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: My coach was kind of like, we're gonna take a little bit of what um, oh goodness, what's his name?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I always forget his name.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he ran at Harvard.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he's a new Oh, Graham Blanks.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Graham Blanks, exactly.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're gonna take exactly what Graham Blanks is doing.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And uh his coach, what he does, it's the exact same thing: single runs, long runs at a quality pace.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I did that.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I had like I woke up every morning in P in Port Angeles, and we have a beautiful trail, the Olympic Discovery Trail.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I would go and I'd run from my house to Squim, which is about 17, anywhere from 17 to 20 miles, depending on how extra I add it.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd go and I'd run anywhere from some days I'd do 15.5, and some days I'd just do 20 straight.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd do that, and I'd try to hit 90 to 100 miles a week.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what the summer mileage looked like, and it was great.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was on a really solid routine.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then what the this season has been looking like is we kind of have a longer run on Mondays and then an easier day, easier day on Tuesdays, just a mileage day, just to kind of get that in.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then Wednesday is also a volume day as well.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so just kind of like longer stuff, uh focus more on kind of like just a little bit past threshold, kind of like threshold into tempo, pace a little bit.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then Thursday, Friday, just another normal like mileage day.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then Saturday we usually end up doing uh race pace effort stuff.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: So usually VO2 max uh things like the race or the workout that I did before um before George Oaha, uh where I ran the 23, uh 26.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I we did, what did we do?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we did a mile at my coach Lewis said, I want you to do a mile.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then he was thinking about the pace.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I want you to be faster than 445.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at first I'm thinking, oh gosh, geez, okay.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like my legs were a little tired that day, but not in a battle.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, all right, we'll we'll see how this goes.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just go out, and for the first 400 meters, I just felt like smooth.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And this was on like gravel, kind of like it was at Bush Park where we had our first race.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of this like hard packed gravel with sharp turns, and I ended up clocking out a 431 first mile.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like off to a great start with that one.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I felt good, and then the eight we then we did two eight hundreds on thick grass, um, which were at, I think I ran 214 for the first one and then a 210 for the second.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Jog over to South Salem High School track, which is about half a mile away, and then do another set of two eight hundreds and um and spikes, and those were the exact same as like two fourteen for the first one and then two ten for the second.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then we did a set of four by two hundreds with 200 jogs, and all that was at 30 because I have an issue sometimes with making the 200s a little bit faster than they should be, and sometimes that has caused issues with slight, you know, potential injury, and so my coach was like, no faster than 30s, and I was like, Oh, really?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, No faster than 30s.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so that's that's kind of like what our pre-race workouts look like.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, you know, we we we we try not to overcomplicate things, is what I like to say.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm gonna skip ahead to a question about track because you have a pretty fast 1500 and you also have a very fast 10K.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it sounds like you like to rip out something fast once in a while.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love doing that.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's always it's always fun to rip something out.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think like the biggest thing that that's kind of helped me with is I've gotten into banded plyometrics, so it's kind of like the conversion to using resistance bands and plyometrics, and I think that's what's helped a lot for me with that speed stuff.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I implement it with all of my uh physical training stuff and my you know, I call it basic maintenance work.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: I always implement that stuff.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's uh a good thing to touch on because some people think just running is all you have to do, and ooh, there's a lot of a lot of other things you could add in that.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: If only it were that easy.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, right, yeah.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, well, maybe when you're in like middle and high school, but I mean when you're in middle of high school, you know, you're kind of well, we'll go run for about 15 minutes and then you know, and yeah, there we go, you know.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, to be fair, some of them are racing three, five K's a week, which is ridiculous, but that's a whole different debate.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's what I that's what I was doing.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I that's a that's a different story.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's not that's not their fault, that's just the athletic schedule, usually.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: But so if you don't mind sharing, do you have you know some goals that are on your mind for the season for the rest of the fall?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I guess for the rest of the fall, like obviously I it'd be fun to go out and win, but like I've said earlier, winning isn't everything.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to be able just to, you know, just go out there and just kind of like change the idea of what running is, you know.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody's saying everybody's like, oh, it's like we need to be, you know, gritty, we need to be hard, and like, yes, there's a there's a time for that, and that makes total sense.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like races, yeah, you should go out and be competitive, but like uh at the same time, outside of it, have fun, spend time with your teammates and like just enjoy the moment because I just remember what it was like it's four years ago, it was my freshman year, and I was getting moved in with one of my best friends who you know, I was his best man in his wedding this summer, you know, and it's just like just just like uh this I like it.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's this one uh Nike uh coach who does like the Nike running app stuff, and I really like what he says.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: His name's Coach Bennett, and what he does is he says this he gives like a quote and then he goes, This isn't about running, this is about running.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the kind of perspective I want to put on what running is, you know, because we see all these runners like Mark Elainen or Simeon Birnbaum or all these guys who are, you know, like gritty, tough, you know, and it's like, are you having fun at all?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, you're obviously you're top of NCAA.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's another thing, but like, are you just having fun?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Are you enjoying with where you're at?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Are you stopping and smelling the roses?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Has been a thing that I want to just like, you know, get people to do.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, look at where we're at, even before the race.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, look, like you can see Mount Hood in the distance from the national scores.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, look where with where we're at.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: How awesome that we get the opportunity to be here, let alone to go out and race.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's kind of been like one of the goals, but I think like time goals, like I just want to keep running fast times and try to, you know, keep cutting down, you know.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really have like any, oh, you know, I want to run a 23 flat or a 22 fit.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just I just I just want to go out there and just be a light of Christ.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's like my biggest goal.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, how about track?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Track.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now see, that's where it's like a little bit.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I can throw down actual times.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think same thing, you know, obviously show the light of Christ, but I think like more time-specific goals is I'm trying to run sub-29 um in the 10k.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's that one.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be really, really fun to try to run sub-13 or not sub-13.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: I wish sub-13.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be amazing.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe future goals, but um, next season, definitely try to run, you know, sub-14, trying to get as close to 1330s as I can, um, because that'll open up a lot of doors for me.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and in the 1500, I don't really run the 1500 as much, but I think it'd also be kind of fun to try to run a you know a sub-350 and the 1500.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just try to see if I can just hit all of those boom, boom, boom, right there, you know, just just for funds, you know.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, maybe after the season's over, I might dabble in a half marathon.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll see, but that's that's too far down the road from there.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to trying to take one day at a time, you know.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you're definitely, as you said, a stop and smell the roses kind of guy live in the moment and enjoy and appreciate what running brings.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, what is one of your favorite race or running memories?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, see, because that's a good one.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have a few.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll I'll I'll list like I'll list a few short ones, but the really, really, really good ones.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So first one is I I love this one.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was my freshman year.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're going back to the same course as well.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, freshman year at conference uh in Idaho.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was so much fun.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was it was a perfect day for me.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was like misty, but a little bit wet, but not super wet, where it's like, you know, downpour and you're soaked.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like it was cold and misty.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, ooh, but this is okay.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: I like this stuff.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love this a little bit.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the grass was wet and it was a little bit sloppy, but I just remember like boom, gun goes off.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, I'm just like, I feel great.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm with these top guys in our conference who I was like kind of looking up to.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, my teammate Rob, he was already in the front pack, so I'm like, what?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, like I'll never be up there this year.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I just kind of like started getting closer and closer to that pack as the race went on, and it's about 2K loops, and so we're going into the last loop, and I realized I'm in like the top 10, top 15.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh crap, I could qualify for nationals as an individual this last lap.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember it was like we're going and I start picking off all the Eastern Oregon guys and picking off all these different guys, and it's um me and a guy from OIT, I forget his name every single time.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I'm I I feel so bad, but it was me and him, and we're getting to like the last 400 meters, and I just I don't know where this came from because in high school I was known for not having a good kick.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just this was known for me.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just did not have a good kick.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: I always every race in high school, I'd just go out, just go out in front of everybody and just try to hold that pace, and then people would die off, and then I'd be like, okay, I'm good.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I the last 400, I closed so hard, I ended up placing it's like fourth or fifth.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember it was just so much fun seeing my teammates come down afterwards and then qualifying for Nats.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: That was such an awesome experience.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my second favorite moment was indoor track this past season during the 5K.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people like you know, a lot of people kind of already know how that race went.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: I ended up getting passed in the last, you know, 25 meters and stuff.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I just remember afterwards, I was just like, I was just like, praise the Lord that I just get to be here because the two years prior, I'd be injured or something, I'd be sick.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that season I'd had no injuries at all.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this is so awesome.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just remember just like I just remember just praise the Lord.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I was like just telling people like, praise the Lord, and you know, this guy who got second, his like being like people were like, I want to people were like, dude, you got second, like why are you so happy?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, dude, I just get to be here and I get to praise the Lord.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I told this one guy, I was like, dude, like, hey, Christ be magnified, like, praise the Lord.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: And he was from Indiana Wesleyan, his name was Hunter, and he just like, you know, he ended up texting me.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, dude, like what you said really inspired me to take my faith on the next journey.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like that moment right there was just kind of like flicked, like, I can use running for so much more than just running.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so those are kind of like the two like biggest memories I would say from running.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: But still, second in the country, that's nothing to still a big deal.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just yeah, I think a lot of people I remember calling, um, I remember calling my girlfriend Claire, and she was like a little worried at first because she didn't know, like, oh, I don't know how he's gonna take it.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I just call her and I go, hey, I just wanted to say hi real quick.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, uh, did you realize you just ran uh you know, second in the nation?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, Yeah, but I just wanted to say hi real quick.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to see how you're doing.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, You're such an idiot.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was really funny, but that's like, yeah, that was just one of those moments I just think back and I just smile at.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just like, it's just I will say that if more runners could have your perspective and your um, I don't know, like lack of stress, I guess.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not to say that you never feel that or get nervous, but there are so many people who that is ruling their careers and their lives, like they cannot escape that iron grip of anxiety.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: And running is not enjoyable.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's a great reminder for everybody.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, hey, get you get to do this.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: Your body can do this amazing thing, and so many people wish they could do that.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's just like just it's just such the coolest thing ever being able, like we get to do this.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like I hear people say, Oh, I have to go run.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, bro, you get to go run.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: You get to do this, like we get to come out here and run.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how awesome of an opportunity is that?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's why I just oh that's what that's like one of my goals.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: I want to show people that like we get to do this, like smile a little bit.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yes, I I am not at all fast, but I still run, you know, I'm 47 and love to get out there still most days.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I've had lots of experiences and marathoning, you know, all sorts of things.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but sometimes like the joy of how good it feels to just move will overtake me and I'll smile.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I realize all these people probably think I'm a little bit psycho because they're running past me on the trail.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why is she smiling?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm just happy to get to do it.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, one of my teammates he said this at our last race, and I just I just remember him saying it.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: We were going into our last lap, and he goes, Caleb, his name's Caleb Blakeman.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: He was like yelling at yelling at me.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Come on, Jack, give me a little smile, give me a little smile.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I just started smiling because I was like, dude, he's so right.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like just smile a little bit, yeah, have fun, you know.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: I know some high schoolers I photograph a lot of the local meets around here for a running website, and some of the uh high schoolers will like, you know, do like a smile or they'll do some kind of hand sign, and their coaches sometimes like, Why are you doing that?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: You're in the middle of the race.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, that's exactly what they should be doing.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's not gonna slow them down to smile when they go past my camera.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: Let them have some fun.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let them have some fun, smile.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's high school, enjoy it.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, senior year will hit and you're like, Well, now I gotta get a job.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, now I gotta get a job now.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like just smile.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I when I was a senior, my I was about to get married and graduate and you know, get my first teaching job.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I was saying to my coach, ah, just ready to be done running and just you know, get married and do all these adult things.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: And he, I I'll never forget this.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: He took my shoulder with his hand, turned me to look at him, and he goes, Don't ever wish this away because it's almost done, and you will never get to do this again.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: And he was so right.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: He was so right.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, this is a great segue to my next question, which is what advice would you give an incoming freshman?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna pretend that that freshman is is me.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because going into my freshman year, I definitely was I was not in the strongest walk in my faith.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just honesty hour, just wasn't in a strong walk.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was nervous.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I suffered with a lot of just anxiety and stress.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: But what I would tell myself is this, and it's just too just just enjoy.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Just be joyful about where you're at.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Be joyful that we get to come out here and we get to run and we get to have an awesome opportunity.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And when you change your mindset or you change your emotions to be like, I see this as like a good thing.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I get to come out here and do this.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're just gonna feel so much better about yourself.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to come out every day and be like, all right, let's go get a run in.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's go, even if it's an easy day, let's go, let's go listen to music with a speaker and go for like a chill long run.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or let's go and rip out six minute paces for a long run.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or let's go out and let's have an awesome workout.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if it doesn't happen, you still have the next day.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're you're still a collegiate runner, you're still alive that day.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like just enjoy is what I would say.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Really just enjoy.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's great advice.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, what else do you enjoy doing besides running?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, what are your what are your hobbies and interests?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: I know you mentioned you used to like to ski, but that's been put on hold for this collegiate career.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's been put on a hold, but every time I go home and I see my skis in the garage, it's it's they're just they're calling my name.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: But skiing is one of them.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I think a few hobbies I've definitely gotten into is I've gotten into collecting records and old audio equipment, and that's kind of been a gateway, a gateway drug into like I've been trying to get into like DJing, which sounds really no, it doesn't fun.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've I've been really getting into like different like forms of that.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like wanting to get into DJing, and I've already started like downloading software and doing just really small stuff and mixing music and then that and I've kind of took in the Hobbes Kessler route, is I've gotten into rock climbing.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's been a lot of fun as well because I can't ski, I can't really downhill mountain bike anymore because there's an injury in its own.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember asking my coach, I said, could I do rock climbing like bouldering?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Yeah, I don't I don't see anything wrong with that.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, I'm like, all right, there we go.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been that's been kind of the hobbies, like the the bigger ones.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I think just I've just started getting into a lot of stuff.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like my roommate, uh Caleb Lakeman, the one who was talking about the smile, and he was just he's been really like challenging me just to go out and just try new stuff, like just go out and and like, yeah, a DJ board's financially like probably not the best choice as a college student, but at the same time, like what else are you gonna do it?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've been scouring Facebook Marketplace and doing that, or he's been like, dude, like let's go out and do this.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, he's been really pushing me to try new stuff, and so that's I think like the bigger hobbies though, it's definitely been rock climbing and music.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's an interesting combo.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Really interesting combo, and as a runner, it's like it makes sense, but at the same time, it doesn't.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, who says it has to make sense, right?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Who says it does?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm gonna it I'm probably gonna go rock climbing like tomorrow night because I haven't been in the past week, and so it's just it's just fun and golfing too.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot, yeah, I've gotten into golfing as well, even though I'm I'm I'm I'm terrible at golfing.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'm I've been getting into it and I've really enjoyed it.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: The thing about golfing and climbing is I'm not great at both of those things, but it's something that I can look forward to.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's a little switch up from running where I'm like, oh yeah, like I can let's go golfing or let's go climb or let's just like let's just do something different every once in a while, you know?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: I I think I love golf courses so much, even though I am also terrible at golf and hardly ever do it.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: My husband and my my son, they like to golf.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: They're not they're not so bad, but oh, I'm terrible.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I I think it's because so much of my life was spent running at golf courses that I just love being there.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: It they're just beautiful, the grass is beautiful.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: There's you know, usually scenic things.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: The change of pace too.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, slower.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'll drive the golf cart.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Golf cart's great.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you're doing 18 holes, I'll drive the golf cart.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I've been doing this with some of my teammates or one of the guys on the golf team.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: He was on our cross, he was on the distance team last year, but he changed because he had some injuries that wouldn't go away.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he was a you know, really good golfer too.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: But we'll go golfing and we'll just go walk nine holes, and it's great.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like we'll have great conversations, and it's just so stress-free, even though I'm terrible at golf.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I get to look at him and be like, wow, like yeah, like if one day, hopefully when I'm retired, I'll probably get into it more and more, but it's still just fun.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just like the change of pace from running fast all the time to slowing down and really thinking about every single detail.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just like to be outside.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean that there's that too.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so what is next for you after this year?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, do you have plans for what's coming next, or is that kind of still TBD?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a mix of TBD.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: The the outline is there.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: The outline I have is there, but still TBD.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm figuring out, you know, because we got the fifth year stuff with NCAA and NAIA, which that just makes things so much easier.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: That makes things that just really relieves this burden off my chest now, where it's like, okay, now no matter where I go, I'll have a fifth year.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, right now, I don't know where that is.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know where that'll take me.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've had dreams of rain at University of Oregon.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what's nice about that is that's just right down the road for me and Eugene from St.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Lump and my coach's connection as well, which um so that's been an option, or maybe staying here at Corbin or maybe going somewhere else.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it just, it just really just like it's not determined yet because the process, like all these coaches are still in their season, and it's like heart of their season too.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like this will probably be a afternationals thing when I need to start worrying about.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I definitely I I talked to my coach about it, and I go, hey, did you talk to this person or reach out to this person?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Cause he's his his his portfolio, he's got so many connections, which I'm super grateful for.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, hey, like just I'm one of those people, I like in on things about it.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Like, yeah, like I have, but I love your enthusiasm, Jack.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: But like this process, it's gonna take like a little longer than you than you think.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just you know, yeah, it's God's plan at the end of the day, it's you know what he has for me, but I still like having a at least a rough outline.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the plan.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm still gonna have a fifth year and I still want to continue running, but where?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: So what is your major?
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: What did you what are you studying?
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'm um I'm a business major, but it's more specific into marketing.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a mix of content creation, um, the actual like behind the scenes creating the marketing plans, gathering data, market research, different things along the lines like that.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a really creative brain, so it that's why I love marketing.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is either that or accounting, and I'm terrible with numbers.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, that's probably not the right route then.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, and so that's why I went with the marketing route.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I'm I have a creative brain, so I'm really looking at just different schools with solid business program, probably getting my my MBA.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think like future, future goals.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want to try being a collegiate coach.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've always had this goal of trying to make the Olympics since I was in middle school, like when I started.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, like I have backup goals as well, just like you know, being a college-level coach and giving kids the same experience that I had, and like that's would be awesome to do as well.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think you'd be a great coach.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: I've yeah, I've you got a lot of wisdom to share and running experience, of course.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so this is our last question, and it's my favorite one to ask, and I think your answer is going to be really interesting.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: If you could run with anyone, whether they're from the past and history, living or not, or from present day, and you could take them and run anywhere in the world, who are you choosing to run with and where are you choosing to run?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: That is such a good question.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: Most people think, oh, you'd go the Steve Prefontaine route.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: And once again, that would be amazing to do.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I would change it up, and I would love to kind of like I would love to go to the route of Anthony Bourdain, which is a really random, like, he's not a runner, he's a he's a chef.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_03: They don't have to be a runner for this, so that's okay.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have to be, which is great.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the reason why I think like Anthony Bourdain, and that's somebody who's very he's he he lived a very interesting life when you look at it.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: He was this kid who wanted to be a writer who ended up becoming a world-renowned chef slash philosopher, which is a really weird thing.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I love philosophy and I love cooking.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love like doing that, and I would love to run with him and just ask him like what he thinks.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Pick his brain, have a philosophical, not debate, but conversation with him.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think definitely a lot of some of the stuff that I perceived my philosophical worldview is a little bit from him, and a little bit of it's mainly like Christian philosophers, like Kierkegaard is the biggest one, but with him, like you can still admire some secular philosophers, and he's one of those guys that I'm like, oh yeah, like I admire a lot of like what he says, and that's like going out and trying something new, going out and exploring and really like indulging in just other cultures and seeing things.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I really like I would have a conversation with him, and I would love to go running with him.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's two spots.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: It would either be back at home in Port Angeles, Washington, because the Olympic Discovery Trail has some of the most prettiest views I've ever seen.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: It would be there, or it would be or it would be definitely it'd be in Mammoth Lakes, one of those two spots.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I wouldn't even care about the place that I ran.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: It would be more about just like the conversations and the experience that I would have with him because he lived such a full life of traveling and trying out new things and just experiencing the world, you know, and like, you know, good ways and bad, you know, like he'd from a secular point of view, it's like, oh, you know, he'd live the world, and and you know, as Christians, it's we're not called to live live of the world, but live in the world.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're just like, you know, that's like we're not called to live of the world, live of the things of the world, but just to talk to him and just be like, just tell me about your life.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just tell me some of the most exciting things that you've done.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about some of the most mundane things that you've done, because I think having a conversation with him would just be it would just be one of the coolest conversations ever.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, he was a very eclectic man.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: Very exciting.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I read that they're making a movie about him.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: They did a biopic on him, which we I watched that with my brother because we both love philosophy and films.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a big film geek.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can you know ask me anything about films, but we watched that and it was like a pretty good representation of who he was, like, and it touched on just like the first part of his life, and I really like that.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: But when you really like look more into it, he just lived such a filling life because he would have conversations with people like different religions, different political powers.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I think he I don't remember the quote off the top of my head, but one of the things that he said is like like it had to do something with he would take a smaller, a little grungier restaurant than a five-star dining, you know, because that's where more genuine conversations were had, and that's where more there's more genuine people there.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: You really got to see people at its finest when you were at the good of people at its finest than you were to see at like a really nice restaurant or like a super fancy schmancy place.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, sometimes the food's even better, you never know.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the food's even better.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what that's what that's that's definitely what it'd be.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: The place doesn't matter.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think place is relevant.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think the person would definitely be him.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's a that's a very cool choice.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: That is very unique and interesting, definitely.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_03: So what's next for you on the race calendar?
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's next is conference.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: We have conference coming up in a few weeks, and I'm really excited because I love the guys in our conference, the Eastern Oregon guys, they're they're straight goobers.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're just they're one of those guys.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: I see them out there, and I'm like, they really embody of what like I say and running, like they're just goofballs, and I love that.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like on their warm-ups, dude, we'll make faces at each other, or it's just really funny.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like every time I see them, I smile, and I'm excited to see just I'm excited to see everybody from our conference.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're just all really hardworking guys, and uh, and they're just fun to be around, like the whole conference, they're fun to be around.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of like the next race for me.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: And right now it's just just running and training and spending time with my teammates and just keep on.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I've been saying this, keep on keeping on.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, yeah, yep.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: So well, I mean, you're not done yet, right?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_03: You've got the seasons still to go and and big meets on the horizon, but I loved chatting with you.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think this might be my longest podcast ever.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_03: We're close to an hour, so lots of good.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's a good thing.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_03: That means you had lots of good things to say.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that once again, we all have gifts and talents and being able to utilize them in various ways, whether it be a podcast microphone or your running shoes, right?
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just puts out um what the world maybe needs to hear.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I appreciate you taking time out of your very busy life because I know that runners, especially in college, are extremely, extremely busy.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I was sharing your life and your dreams and your training and all the good stuff with us.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: So thanks again for coming on the pod.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no problem at all.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for tuning in to the Red Banner Race Report.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to feature more cross-country and track and field athletes from the NAIA.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: So stay tuned because it just might be you.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: If you enjoyed today's podcast, please share, subscribe, and leave a review.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: You can find the Red Banner Race Report podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and other major media players.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_03: You can also ask your smart speaker to play the podcast.
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  SPEAKER_03: If you have an idea for a great topic or guest you'd like to hear about, feel free to contact me through the show notes or reach out on Instagram.