Latest / The Dept. w/ Omar El-Takrori / The NEW Way to Win On YouTube in 2026 | The Dept. #98

Transcript

The NEW Way to Win On YouTube in 2026 | The Dept. #98 · The Dept. w/ Omar El-Takrori

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: For the person that's all the entrepreneur, the creator, that's like posting right now, and it's like not going and they're like frustrated and just over the whole process.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: When you do make it, because it will happen, if you just keep putting videos out, you're going to have one here.
0:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I literally had a video go from 60 views to over 900,000 people.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: How long was it till you got your first brand deal and what did that look like?
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: My audience got me my first brand deal.
0:27
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go from being like down and out to like the biggest thing around really fast.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I went from living in like Manhattan to like living with my mom.
0:37
[SPEAKER_00]: like making no money and just grinding it out.
0:40
[SPEAKER_00]: The first 18 months of doing the show, we got about 30,000 downloads total.
0:44
[SPEAKER_00]: The last kind of 18 nearly two years, we've got in nearly 12 million downloads.
0:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Why should people go all in on YouTube this year?
0:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never actually shared this public will.
0:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the department where we interview people who are killing it in their department.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Omar Tachori and I have with me, Calam Johnson.
1:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the department.
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: What's up?
1:08
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like surreal to be like on the department.
1:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen so many of your videos.
1:12
[SPEAKER_01]: This will thank you for having me, I'm in New York.
1:16
[SPEAKER_01]: The vibes are, the vibes are vibe in.
1:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're shooting this on iPhones and a lot of firsts right now, I think another one first I have right now is, I think I'm the first, you're the first guest that I guessed it on first.
1:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm, okay, yeah.
1:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But when we got chatting,
1:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It's without a doubt, you are a YouTube connoisseur expert.
1:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You understand the platform and it's very rare to relate to people that understand how the platform works and I like to define something right away in the show.
1:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you answer this question and it's why should people go all in on YouTube this year?
1:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that is a good one.
1:58
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
1:59
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that I say to people is when it comes to social media and building brands and basically everything that we do, YouTube is the golden goose.
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you have conversations with creators, maybe not what they say on their channels.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But like when you go offline and you have coffees or like meetings or whatever, YouTube is the platform where
2:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I want that to be profitable.
2:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to figure out how that works and the reasons why there's a few one is like you can attack every length of content on YouTube because you have short so you have like super short form content which is I guess like tick-tock or reels you then have like kind of I quit like medium kind of content like that kind of that 8 to 12 minute video
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I was telling you how I came across you with Think Media and like watching those clips that you would do, like those 8 to 12 minute, like kind of perfect length clips.
3:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have that and then you have super long form and I'm sure we'll get into it.
3:12
[SPEAKER_00]: podcasts, whether it's like a rogan or like a Lex Friedman or like even what direvers CEO does or even what we do and the Adam Johnson show where it's like two hours, three hours, even four hour videos.
3:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think if you can master YouTube, it's like you kind of get everything like the full media stack.
3:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when it comes, obviously, I know for your audience.
3:35
[SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to promoting, advertising or business, it's like the opportunities just limitless once you figure out the attention side of things.
3:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like internally, everyone would agree with like, yeah, man, my YouTube's in my goal or YouTube's been my goal or I've been wanting to get on YouTube.
3:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They know that YouTube should be the focus.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
3:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But why is YouTube the hardest to grow in on the entire time?
4:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think it's like, um, I think every platform has its own challenges and to be honest, it'd be interesting to see what you think of this, um, I think every platform has its own challenges, the thing that's unique with YouTube, um, and it's interesting, I like this of Colin and Samir, YouTube is a permission-based platform.
4:23
[SPEAKER_00]: which basically means if you go on Instagram or reels like if you were to go on your iPhone right now you open the Instagram app and you just start scrolling it's gonna stop playing you content like you didn't give it permission to do that but you're seeing reels you're seeing like photos from your friends or just like random creators like those platforms are permissionless they have a four-year page they just play you content
4:48
[SPEAKER_00]: YouTube is a permission-based platform.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you go in the YouTube app where you go online, you're not, the content's not instantly going to start playing.
4:58
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to see thumbnails, you're going to see video titles, so you have to make the choice to click on that video.
5:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So just a psychology for a viewer and how you get attention on YouTube is different.
5:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the thing that I said to you,
5:16
[SPEAKER_00]: when we were in Vegas that I really respected about your platform is that you've mastered and perfected the packaging of YouTube and people underestimate how important that is.
5:30
[SPEAKER_00]: People will produce an incredible video, like a bang a video and spend two seconds on the packaging and just like throw it up and I can't
5:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I wish I could make this clear to people the degree of difference between, you could have the same video with like mediocre to poor packaging and then take that exact same piece of content and give it like phenomenal packaging like super clickable packaging.
5:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It won't be like a 2x or a 3x difference in a views.
6:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm talking about this from experience.
6:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like literally like a thousand times a million times a difference in the performance just purely based on the packaging.
6:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's that's one thing that's like we could go so many things but the number one question I usually get asked by people like you is Omar how the heck does your videos look and sounds so dang crispy well the reality is it's the equipment I use and you'd be surprised how inexpensive it could actually be so I've compiled all my gear and I updated the list and I want to give it to you so if you're listening or watching this just hit the description box below and I'll send you my gear guide for every budget and let's get back into the conversation.
6:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love how they say that Colin and Samir that it's a permission platform and the way you get people to click on your videos is by the way you package the videos and we'll get into that because that is why YouTube's hard.
6:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's where the skill but but people have to get over the bit by still going to make the video no for sure.
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you make the video and nobody clicks on it did you waste your time like don't you want the most views it can have and I can have I also think a reason why people think.
7:09
[SPEAKER_01]: YouTube is hard is because the consumption behavior is not as easy.
7:15
[SPEAKER_01]: We even YouTubers probably spend more time on platforms like Instagram and TikTok because that's just where people are.
7:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an easier platform to consume.
7:24
[SPEAKER_01]: When I watch a long-form video on YouTube, I'm either sitting on my couch or I'm turning my phone sideways and I'm going to sit somewhere for a little bit.
7:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Or listen, it's more of a commitment.
7:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But that is why psychologically
7:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I would go all in on YouTube because of that reason that, like, you know, in the world of sales, you just want a series of yeses before they get to the, the yes of the offer.
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
7:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, the reason why I upload just very long videos on my YouTube channel is because I want the commitment from day to day.
7:59
[SPEAKER_01]: one of my podcasts.
8:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, we're not going to upload shorts on this part.
8:02
[SPEAKER_01]: This YouTube channel, and we're not going to upload meat mids.
8:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we're whatever in college.
8:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Shorts, mids, and super longs.
8:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's served us really well.
8:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I know there's huge opportunity for like starting another channel with all that stuff.
8:17
[SPEAKER_01]: but just because now we just opened up a channel where it means when it comes to packaging, can you break down your philosophy on how you package your content?
8:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, that's good, that's good.
8:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We say package of a video, just to find it for the people.
8:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess,
8:37
[SPEAKER_00]: at the simple level when I refer to packaging and actually think I have a broader definition of packaging than I think what most YouTubers would say.
8:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think what most YouTubers would say, they would say the packaging is the combination of the video title, the title that you see underneath the video and you click and then the thumbnail.
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I use the word combination very intentionally, combination, yeah, combination, direct, yeah, and centralcy.
9:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think that the way that people consume packaging, I always tell this to my team.
9:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that, um,
9:16
[SPEAKER_00]: What's that quote, like a picture is worth a thousand words?
9:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think people see thumbnail first, like the visual first, and it gets their attention.
9:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have to think within the context of YouTube, on a homepage, you're seeing, I don't know, like 10, 15 thumbnails on your page.
9:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like,
9:34
[SPEAKER_00]: what's the visual that instantly gets attention and it's like a split second thing and that's all just human psychology like that whole game is just understanding human psychology and then I always say to my team I think the video title is actually what converts people so it's like you get their attention in the split second and then to actually get them to click is video title the reason why I say so that's
10:03
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason I say I have a different definition, I also include, and I'm kind of getting more into podcasting here, but I think it applies across the board, I also include kind of like the first minute or so of the video, like the content in the packaging, because I think what happens on a psychological level is split second decision I see thumbnail and I'm like intrigued, video title converts me, I click.
10:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Now just because I click does not mean I'm going to watch your 10 minute video, your hour long video, your three hour long video.
10:39
[SPEAKER_00]: That first minute you either need to confirm and be like okay I just made the greatest decision in life clicking this or I'm going to be like okay this video wasn't it and I'm going to click off and so I also put the first minute of like
11:00
[SPEAKER_00]: your thumbnail and your episode title created a certain expectation in the mind of the viewer did your first minute exceed that expectation or did it full well below and like someone's going to click off and maybe not click on your channel for like a while.
11:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, that's kind of my, yeah, no, it's really good.
11:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I know because I know I was talking people are like disqualifying themselves, they're like, bro, I'm gonna go another year and not do YouTube.
11:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I think this is such a great way to think about it because thinking about what people are thinking about is great is how you get good at packaging.
11:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:39
[UNKNOWN]: And
11:39
[SPEAKER_01]: One of my favorite things you can do, even out of the get-go, because if you're gonna get started posting very, very long-form videos, especially if you're good at what you do, I would say start with what you know, but how do you get people to care about what you know, think about what they think about, and one of my favorite new, easy video ideas is essentially trading time for attention.
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You did all the work.
12:11
[SPEAKER_01]: All I have to do is click on this video like clicking on this video is the easy button to getting the information Yeah, so I you know, I'm I'm here in New York.
12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We're here in New York and I was telling you the last time we were here was 10 years ago So I've been in I've been in entrepreneurship over 10 years so I can and I want to make a podcast about
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: 10 lessons of 10 years being an entrepreneur, a seven figure entrepreneur, or something like something along those lines.
12:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So you already think in a package, yeah.
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they get a package, because the title in the thumbnail and even the intro, they should come before I even shoot the video.
12:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know if I don't get this right, then I'm gonna waste my time and like you said, this shift can lead to a 10, 100, 1000 extra turn, but it's condensing time.
12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I love,
12:58
[SPEAKER_01]: videos on.
12:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I read every book on becoming a millionaire.
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the 12 lessons you need to know.
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That is clicking this video is the easy button.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an instant win for the viewer.
13:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what that that's like just I just love how you made that because that makes it very clear.
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like because it's
13:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a very undignified process to create a video.
13:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're so, when we first get started, we are so into ourselves.
13:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a bad way, just naturally, that we're so concerned.
13:28
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why we've been able to see amateurs or new people posing on YouTube.
13:32
[SPEAKER_01]: They have too much information in the thumbnail because you're thinking about yourself, more than you're thinking about the viewer, and less is more.
13:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're talking about all this stuff.
13:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're talking about a face in some words.
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: to get the click on the thumbnail, not like your logo or like real estate agents, they love putting like every little, it looks like a business card and it's like that's why you're not getting clicks.
13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey department fan, question for you, based on you listening to this podcast, you probably are either looking to grow your personal brand this year.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: build your audience online and just stop chasing business and start to have business chasing you.
14:07
[SPEAKER_01]: If that's you, I want to invite you to the content to cash challenge.
14:11
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a five-day coaching experience, a live coaching experience with myself that's done all on Zoom and you get access to a private community and it really is unlike any other experience that I offer.
14:22
[SPEAKER_01]: By the end of the challenge, you have unreal clarity on what you're supposed to do online and you'll have the insight on how you can make an extra six or even seven figures.
14:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I said seven figures in your business this year.
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And if any of those things sound great to you, I want you to join the next content to cast challenge.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Scan the QR code if you're watching on a television or click the link in the description.
14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Once you go through it, go ahead and upgrade to VIP because you'll get an extra hour of bonus VIP Q&A with me every single day of the challenge, and so looking forward to seeing you there.
14:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get back into the combo.
14:54
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, just one quick, quickly on that, cause literally like we could have such a long conversation just on packaging.
15:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Good, yeah.
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And I tell people, like, even in the history of the show, I've been doing the show for three and a half years.
15:08
[SPEAKER_00]: The first 18 months of doing the show, every episode that we put out, we got about 30,000 downloads total.
15:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the cumulative views on everything in that first 18 months.
15:20
[SPEAKER_00]: The last,
15:21
[SPEAKER_00]: The last kind of 18, nearly two years, we've got a nearly 12 million downloads.
15:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So that level of jump, I wouldn't put it all to packaging because I also just got better at the craft of what I do and you're always making these adjustments, but big part of that was mastering packaging.
15:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And to your point, I remember,
15:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a lot of these things I can speak to is because, and I'm sure it's the same for you, I felt the pain firsthand.
15:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I did the wrong thing for countless months and videos and, like, saw the needle not moving at all on performance.
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, what you say about, like, some people, especially entrepreneurs,
16:04
[SPEAKER_00]: their thumbnails will look like business cards.
16:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I've also done the thing where people will create these super aesthetic, beautiful looking thumbnails.
16:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean it gets clicks.
16:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, if you actually look at the domino style on my channel, it's not a static at all.
16:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like so simple.
16:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like frames of like faces because, and it's this is psychology because as humans, like we look, yeah, we look at eyes, we look at people's expression and that's kind of initially what gets our attention.
16:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's like simple text.
16:41
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like clear to read.
16:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the best I'm now as typically, it's just like, it gets your attention and it's clear what the value is.
16:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And like that's it.
16:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like an art piece.
16:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I try doing the art piece and it wouldn't get clicks.
16:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So, no, yeah, so good.
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So you 18 months of just going brute force, I think that would resonate with a lot of people.
17:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I knew a lot when I got started with the podcast because of the my think media days.
17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But it still took 13 episodes to have a breakout video.
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I studied the crap out of that breakout video.
17:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, um, because I what I was doing was I was trying to emulate like a like a diarrhea to CEO type of intro.
17:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I had I do UFC fighter on, uh, like, but
17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like, it wasn't hit, you know?
17:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I found that actually to boil it down, it really was just being clear in the intro.
17:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Some sort of comprehension, like you said, like, take away something, you can get right away because when you give something right away in the beginning of a YouTube video, people don't leave, they wanna stay.
17:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And then credibility, something that is,
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm going to start, I mean, this podcast will start with some credibility moments.
17:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And then those three think credibility, clarity, comprehension, I found were really good.
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I tested this with Myron, where I was like, I'm even going to edit, I'm just going to, I'm just going to, I'm just going to,
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: go into the conversation with those three checkboxes and it cooked.
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, so it doesn't, the production value isn't what we're talking about.
18:21
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about essence.
18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about psychology and less is more.
18:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, honestly, being able to communicate a lot.
18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but in 18 months, you say it's packaging, but was it like, like intros or was it the title?
18:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Thailand thumbnail.
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So the big thing and just to be clear with people, maybe this will be like Contrarian, I am so grateful that that first video or even in the first year, I didn't blow up off that first few videos that I did.
18:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think sometimes when you get good at the tactics before you're actually good at the craft, you don't have
19:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think I heard someone say this, so talking about it in terms of music.
19:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's almost the quicker you blow up, the quicker you burn out.
19:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if it takes longer sometimes, it means that when you do hear, it's like you have everything so dialed in and you have such a commitment to the craft and what you're doing, you're gonna be around for a while.
19:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like, I'm actually really grateful for the amount of time that it took.
19:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But,
19:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that if you compared, like if you took the column from the first 18 months and then you compared my process to what it is now, the big difference is that you're going to see when it comes to packaging is, in that first 18 months, I wouldn't think about packaging.
19:53
[SPEAKER_00]: The first moment that I would think about packaging is when the video was already kind of like uploaded and I'm now, you know what it's like.
19:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you're in YouTube, you're like, okay, it needs a title.
20:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what's the description?
20:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's asking for a thumbnail and you're thinking to yourself, you're like, okay, what am I gonna do?
20:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like really in the moment.
20:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we have such a deep process, but like,
20:19
[SPEAKER_00]: The thoughts on packaging, literally what you just demonstrated, starts before I've even booked the guest.
20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm thinking about reaching out to the guest to come on the show.
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I already have some semblance of like, okay, this is where I'm thinking the topic, the packaging, like thumbnail.
20:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe do we have experience of like a similar topic and thumbnail working on the show?
20:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the one big thing,
20:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I tell people, and I think if there was something that people are going to take from this video, it's that you don't want to treat packaging as an afterthought.
20:58
[SPEAKER_00]: so many like that's what that's typically what creators getting into it or entrepreneurs getting into it do they spend the most majority of their time solely thinking about content which is good in a way I guess but like your videos aren't going to go until you lock in the packaging element of it and so now we kind of start with packaging then replying content I don't think you will find
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: creator or a business owner that has a successful YouTube channel who is doing the first way everyone's trying it.
21:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, everyone would agree.
21:34
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it starts with the title and the thumbnail, the big idea, the title thumbnail.
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And it gives you the permission.
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: to, I don't know, we have a different story because we have a podcast, but essentially, you're just picking one thing.
21:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, just talk about one thing, one idea, and it gives you permission to have more content too.
21:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I interview, like, I can have you on next year, another time, and we could talk,
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: In a different angle we could talk monetization, you know, or whatever, but I do think that it's it's it's like the thinking work that people aren't willing to do Yeah, you know that first breakout video though, which one was it like Because I think we all had our first breakout video.
22:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, the story.
22:20
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's the funny.
22:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never actually shared this publicly
22:26
[SPEAKER_00]: That video was very nearly never recorded.
22:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So the back story is, and I feel like the way that I do things, it's funny, because I'm like, one of the people I really look to is like an inspiration for me as Nipsey Hossle, and he has this video that he did with Gary Vaynerchuk, where they're talking, and he's like, I'm a radical man, I'm a radical.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think sometimes when it comes to business and content and doing what you love,
22:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of like a radical like I I once I had the clarity of like I want to do the show and I want it to be one of the biggest shows on the planet like I quit my job I went from living in like Manhattan to like living with my mom like making no money and just grinding it out
23:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, the story of that first video, I'd been living at home with my mom for like 10 months.
23:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We're posting on YouTube every week, every video, like Omar, I'm telling you this, every video is getting like 100 views.
23:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it would not, it would be always in that range.
23:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It'd be like 78, and then maybe 112, then like 90, and like always around that 100-view range.
23:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I was stuck there.
23:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I would keep doing it every week.
23:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I'm brute force in this until it worked.
23:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You say that's like a good cadence.
23:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Want to eat to get started.
23:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you just have to decide something and then stick to it.
23:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, then so like one a week works for me because it's a podcast and with a podcast, you want to work yourself into people's routine.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
23:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's also why we post every like Monday, 8 a.m.
24:01
[SPEAKER_00]: is because most people listen to it's changing now but at the time most people listen to podcasts on a commute and so you want it at the start of their week when they're kind of like planning out like okay what's am I going to listen to an album and I listen to like a podcast like what am I going to listen to this week you want it like your episodes in their
24:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And we just stuck to that cadence, like I think from when I made the decision we're going to do once a week I think we did it for like 57 straight weeks before Before we ever there was a week where we like took a break and I think that was like Christmas or something sure like once we made the decision it was like happening But anyway, the the story of the first viral episode that we had so it was with this entrepreneur called Dante's acrum
24:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, just like an incredible, like he has like an incredible story of like he was sleeping on like his, a he was sleeping on like a mattress at his girlfriend's mom's house, and then like turned his life around, has like a young daughter at the time.
25:10
[SPEAKER_00]: turns his life around and builds a successful clothing business which now does like multi-million in revenue but anyway I'd been aware of him for like months beforehand and I'd been like reaching out to him like all we need to get you on the show but I'm based in New York and he's based in Atlanta
25:27
[SPEAKER_00]: and so like there was one weekend that he was in New York and so he messages me he's like oh we can do it while I'm in New York and so I'm like I'm like yes I'm like reaching out to the studio I'm like make sure we have this time all this stuff I get everything planned and then I go back to him with the times goes completely ghost like I don't hear anything from him
25:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I knew that he was there for like a long weekend.
25:48
[SPEAKER_00]: He told me that he was leaving on the Monday.
25:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't hear from him the whole weekend, I'm like, I'm like, this is ain't happening.
25:54
[SPEAKER_00]: He messages me, it must be like six, seven a.m. Monday morning.
26:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And these times I don't live in New York.
26:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I live in Jersey and my mom's house, like two hours out of New York.
26:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He messages me like six, seven a.m. like, oh, I can do it.
26:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you do it?
26:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I like 11 a.m.
26:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, there's like the eye crust in my eye.
26:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm waking up.
26:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like on the phone with the studios.
26:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, can we do this?
26:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like super last minute.
26:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I go in.
26:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like doing the research and the prep on the train on the way in.
26:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We record this conversation.
26:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, from when I knew it was good, but at that point in time, I'd never had a video blow up on YouTube.
26:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you don't really know what good is until one goes.
26:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I didn't really think anything of it.
26:43
[SPEAKER_00]: We recorded it.
26:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Bro, that's a bar.
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you don't know.
26:47
[SPEAKER_00]: what good is till one goes yeah i tell people and this will make sense for your audience like for entrepreneurs in life you learn a lot more from your failures than your wins that is not the case on youtube on youtube you learn
27:02
[SPEAKER_00]: 50 times 100 times more from your wins than your failures because as soon as you have a win you can base future videos it gives you a blueprint 100 you can base future videos of that win so anyway so we record the episode I'm like it feels good to me but like I don't know because it nothing's ever gone like I'm stuck at 100 views in episode
27:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We go back and this is recently I've made this mental switch where I used to think about packaging as an afterthought.
27:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I made this tweak where like for every video, we came up with three thumbnails and three titles for every video.
27:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we'd have like a combination.
27:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So it'd be like option A, like my preferred option of like thumbnail title.
27:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we'd have option B thumbnail title, option C. And basically, I posted the Dante's Acrum video.
27:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is why I'm so like passionate about this, because people don't get how important packaging is.
28:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is what solidified it in my mind.
28:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We post the episode Monday, 8 a.m. the same way we always do the exact same performance as what we would typically get from the judge.
28:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like it was getting like it was on track to get like I don't know a hundred or 150 views.
28:22
[SPEAKER_00]: We have that packaging combination which has got first option the option A.
28:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We have that on the video for about a day and a half.
28:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So it gets to choose the evening now.
28:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, man, this video is doing the same as what it always does.
28:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, you know, let's just change the option B.
28:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So right before I go to bed, I change the title, I change the thumbnail.
28:41
[SPEAKER_00]: like I call it like I get goosebumps talking about it.
28:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I wake up the next morning it's going from like 60, 70 views to 2000 views and you have to keep in mind I'm stuck at a hundred views.
28:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I wake up eight hours later it's got 2000
28:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, by the weekend, I think it's out about like 10, 12,000.
29:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going crazy at home.
29:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like my mom's house.
29:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I'm going crazy.
29:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, I had the same experience I was just in Carbo.
29:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's nice.
29:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It just dunked on me.
29:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it.
29:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then yeah, I remember after that weekend.
29:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It went from like 10,000 after the weekend, it had like 100,000.
29:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And bro, it just kept going and going and going.
29:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I think now that episode has like,
29:27
[SPEAKER_00]: over 900,000 views on that episode alone.
29:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I tell people, I'm like, I literally had a video the same content go from 60 views to over 900,000 people and the whole course of the channel changed based off that video because of packaging.
29:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, the content has to be good.
29:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we had like, it was a great conversation.
29:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But like it's the same with like a book, you know?
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can have the, you can write the greatest book in the world, like so much value, like everything.
30:05
[SPEAKER_00]: If when people see it on the shelf or on Amazon or whatever, they don't look at the cover and the title and the blurb and like everything.
30:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like, okay, I'm gonna buy this.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: No one sees it and it's like the greatest shame in the world like how many videos are out there which are great like amazing videos like they're great for humanity and society and people But because the the author was an intentional with the packaging no one ever saw it Did they say we don't judge a book by its cover, but let's see only way too judge a book.
30:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we don't have time Yeah, I mean
30:40
[SPEAKER_01]: and that's why it's important.
30:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why the name of a book is important.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you say that because because people don't know typically don't know this, you can go and change.
30:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like once you get more clarity on this idea of titling and thumbnail and packaging on YouTube,
30:57
[SPEAKER_01]: that you can go on the back.
30:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go on the backlog and update.
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Did did you do that?
31:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Or?
31:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So I did it manually.
31:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So I did it manually.
31:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I went into YouTube Studio and I just yeah, I just changed the title and I changed the thumbnail.
31:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I woke up the next day.
31:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It was completely different.
31:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think on a mindset level, the way that I think about things and I'm a huge
31:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I just do experiments like I tell this to my team all the time.
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like we're not geniuses.
31:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You know it's funny because even the way that you like you intro this you're like like the packaging like master like he understands this and stuff.
31:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I tell my team all the time like we we have an idea of what we think is going to work, but I don't know.
31:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, let's test it.
31:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go to the market and see what happens.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm a really big proponent.
31:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially in the beginning, when you don't have much of an audience, why wouldn't you just try things?
32:00
[SPEAKER_00]: If you had five videos get 50 views, why wouldn't you just try something different?
32:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Typically the way that I would change one thing.
32:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So, similar like the video is the same, but we changed them and now we changed title, and that's what did it, right?
32:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm not completely starting from scratch or starting from zero, but I always say that to my team, I'm like, let's test it on the market.
32:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we don't know.
32:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And if it's not working, we can always change it back.
32:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm such a big proponent of experiments.
32:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, if you talk with like the, if you speak with the channels that do the best on YouTube, it's the people that like truly love the platform and they've really embraced just that mindset of constant experimentation.
32:48
[SPEAKER_00]: They are constantly trying things and sometimes it's like the
32:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And if people are familiar with the channel, the column Johnson Show, we typically have like a frame of myself and then the frame of the guests like our faces on the thumbnail and then we have some text in the middle.
33:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that we try to recently, we
33:13
[SPEAKER_00]: got like the we tried adding like the guests hand into the frame.
33:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So he'd be like pointing at something like it's like the smallest thing like you wouldn't even as a viewer you wouldn't even notice and then we're looking at the analytics in YouTube we're like looking at the CTR on the rate.
33:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, click the rate.
33:32
[SPEAKER_00]: and we're like, okay, did we see a bump from that?
33:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Did it give anything?
33:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's the level of detail.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we're going into, like we're just tweaking it at the margins.
33:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And it makes a difference.
33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You said it's like falling in love with the platform and it's hard to fall in love with the platform if you don't know it.
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're chilling, you're watching YouTube.
33:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like,
33:56
[SPEAKER_01]: it's like a holistic approach it's like it's not I'm not just a contributor to the platform I'm also a consumer of the platform and when I'm on YouTube I'm getting fresh ideas even like oh wow like that cut like the way that they worded that title
34:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, have you taken titles in the vast and just re-worked it for your needs?
34:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I've taken what you just described as a superpower.
34:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, like, I've taken packaging and inspiration from not just channels in my niche, like you, everyone that's listening should be doing that as the base minimum.
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you should be looking at similar videos and channels in your niche and seeing what works for them.
34:39
[SPEAKER_00]: and to be clear when I say what works for them, you're looking for outliers.
34:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're looking at like, we're getting kind of into the deep in the tactics of this now.
34:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is if you go on someone's page and you just look at like their last 10, 20 videos and you look at the performance You'll start to establish like an average like here is typically like maybe they get like 10,000 views on average And then I'm looking for you'll see a video that got 50,000 or not even 50,000 even if it gets 18,000 but the average is 10,000 I'm now studying that a bit deeper
35:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, what do they do with the title?
35:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I think it's the thumbnail?
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Is the reason, is it the title?
35:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it the topic?
35:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Because people also don't think about topic.
35:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, sometimes it's, there's just not enough demand for the topic that you're speaking to.
35:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that, like, the contents of the video is the bad topic.
35:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just what you're hiding the contents of the video.
35:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, we're talking like,
35:40
[SPEAKER_01]: How to grow a YouTube channel, or how to make money on YouTube?
35:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's kind of like that's a topic difference.
35:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Growing an audience or making money, I would imagine more people care about making money on YouTube than growing an audience on YouTube.
35:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what I just wanted to make it clear when you say topic because some people be like, I don't know, okay, topic change the video completely.
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
36:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about the...
36:02
[SPEAKER_00]: the umbrella it sits under yeah that that's the way to say it's like what umbrella is it sitting under and so yeah I'm I'm always looking at outliers I'm like if it's what I got like I got an extreme outlier right like a hundred views to 900,000 but like you'll see it on people's channel like they'll have like
36:22
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll have like 70 views and then like this one got a thousand and I'll even look at small channels sometimes And I'll be like, oh wait, why did this get a thousand and I was looking at the way they did the tights And I'm like, that's kind of interesting like could we do that would that make sense have you I haven't outlier of someone I know but have you do you have one in your mind that's like Finding outlier.
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it just stirs in me like I'm like whoa.
36:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll say it and if one comes to mind share it But Daniel previously
36:50
[SPEAKER_01]: business expert like he was on a Diaries CEO a couple times got millions ten million views on his conversation and they don't really go all in on his personal brand YouTube channel until recently Yeah, and so he's been doing it really well and I know he has a product called the score app which is essentially a form or an assessment website builder like with templates.
37:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like if you made a video on or have an assessment
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: for your business, it won't give you this outlier video is the $1 million landing page works for everyone and that video is cooking and he's literally just demonstrating his product in the video brilliantly though like very like very it's not like very pushy but like he made his software business into the idea of a $1 million landing page yeah which easy button
37:48
[SPEAKER_01]: big umbrella and then the content itself was just having assessment.
37:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like beautiful.
37:56
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what it is sometimes I think with this, it's like, so I think to myself, I'm like, why wouldn't you do this?
38:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's what I understand sometimes when like, as creators, I feel like sometimes,
38:09
[SPEAKER_00]: We can get two romantic or like two artistic.
38:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you get, you get tied to like, it has to be presented in a certain way.
38:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this will make sense for like entrepreneurs.
38:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, it is your responsibility.
38:26
[SPEAKER_00]: that you're offer or whatever you're selling, you make that make sense to your customer.
38:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not like, I'm just going to tell it how it is and then they're going to accept it.
38:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, like you have to position it and frame it and package it in a way where they want to buy it or they're in trees.
38:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to make it make sense for them.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's exactly the same with YouTube.
38:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the the Daniel Priestley is a great example.
38:55
[SPEAKER_00]: for me, and I'm actually trying to get them on the show right now, Simon Squibbs, so Simon, if you'll see in this.
39:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But I remember, and you might know this as well actually, but maybe it was like 18 months ago, two years ago, he had this video that went like so crazy and everyone in the like business entrepreneurship marketing niche like copy the former.
39:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't
39:22
[SPEAKER_00]: title.
39:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like he's taking 36 years.
39:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of business knowledge in 56 minutes or something.
39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
39:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And to your point, like, very similar to the Daniel Priestie thing, like, he could have tied to a, I don't know, business secrets or something, like 10 business secrets.
39:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And it probably would have gone, I don't know, a thousand views.
39:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that episode has been, or that video has been watched like millions of times.
39:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he, he did like another one, where it was like, he, he slightly tweaked it.
39:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like marketing knowledge or something.
39:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he, he, he, he,
39:57
[SPEAKER_00]: He remixed it.
39:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like he's still writing the wave as far as even the format he showed up in, which was like drawing stuff.
40:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Long-form team dance, and showing it on camera.
40:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's one of the things, honestly, like, oh, man, that's one of the things where I'm trying to get better with that.
40:19
[SPEAKER_00]: which is you have something which is like a banger and it works and it's such an extreme outlier, the slight remix.
40:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of the times they're like, okay, cool.
40:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me go do something else.
40:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that worked.
40:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me go do something else.
40:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like not like run that thing again.
40:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
40:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah.
40:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, you know, it's a funny thing how we do that.
40:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I do that all the time, bro, something works and I move on.
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, so move on.
40:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And events, no sense.
40:44
[SPEAKER_00]: See, like, it worked.
40:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm, I'm starting to see a lot on Instagram where I saw a goal posted a reel about this.
40:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, literally what she did is she had a career
40:58
[SPEAKER_00]: views.
41:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And then she came back, she was like, yeah, I came back like two months later.
41:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I posted the same real, like the exact same video six million views.
41:09
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, I'm going to keep posting that thing until it's like under a million, like the same video.
41:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think I'm trying to take that spirit of like, yeah, I mean, that's, that's a thing in here where sometimes when we feel like,
41:22
[SPEAKER_01]: everyone's seen it.
41:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone who's supposed to see it, I already saw it, which is like literally impossible.
41:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Or we think that the person who saw the last one is going to say, I already saw this already, which like that even really happens.
41:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they want to leave, they can, because
41:39
[SPEAKER_01]: posting content in many ways is really just the wide net to most of our businesses.
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, speaking of business, it's going to be transitioned a bit into the way you've chosen to build yours is different than what I, you know, my YouTube channel serves me as.
41:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I would classify you as someone who's building a media company.
41:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, my podcast is kind of a means to doing business, like doing more business, which both approaches are
42:07
[SPEAKER_01]: are valid approaches, can you share how that's been that journey like because like building the media company, you're we're talking brand deals, we're talking add sense, we're talking, you know, other things, you're not really selling your own product.
42:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no 100% I think is interesting because this was like a real journey for me to get to that clarity.
42:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think it's something you're always figuring out as an entrepreneur is like, what is the intent?
42:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Like at the center of this, like, what am I really trying to do?
42:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we're not just trying to make numbers go up on a screen.
42:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there is like something like in our core.
42:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for a lot of people that like make the decision and take the risk to start something.
42:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, there's an outcome that you're trying to get.
42:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's something you're trying to do.
42:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for me,
42:54
[SPEAKER_00]: the origin of it like when I would really think about it and of course you want to make money and like all of those things and support our families and all of that stuff but for me like I loved the craft of what I do like I love conversation like what we're doing right now like this is my thing like this is what gets me like out of bed in the morning and so I'm also just
43:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like competitive and so I like the sport of getting better and reaching more and more heights and so really like when you talk about a media business I just wanted to be able to play this game that I love on like higher and higher levels.
43:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I see the advertising and the sponsorship.
43:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, we want an alignment there and I want to give value to my viewer and the people that watch and support the show.
43:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But I see it as a way that it supports me and allows me to keep doing this at a bigger and bigger level.
43:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, that was always the way I thought about it.
44:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was opportunities that would come, whether it was like promoting certain products or even like certain guests like paying to come on the show and I'd always be like nah, because I wanna do the game at the highest level.
44:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And so anything that feels like it's like compromising that to me, I'm like nah.
44:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I think a big part of it.
44:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember I heard Colin and Samir break it down like this, which is, um, there's some people, there's a different sometimes between being like, well, I would think it's like a pure entrepreneur.
44:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And then kind of this new age that we're going in where you kind of have like the creator entrepreneur, where a part of it is artistic.
44:50
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
44:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's deeply plus and it's artistic and it's like, yes, we want to make money and have it be financially lucrative But we also just love this craft I'm assuming it's like what boss get like, do I think about it like in rap?
45:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's people that get into it You got like the Rick Ross Who like, he's a true artist rapper Thank you
45:15
[SPEAKER_01]: but leverage to wrap, to build a legacy.
45:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have guys like, chance to wrap her, who is like, no brand or not signing any contracts.
45:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's all about the period, the puristness of the art form, you know?
45:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think of it like I think of it like that, you know, and I think you're right.
45:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't even, I think I'm a bit of a mix.
45:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't put myself purely in the thing of like, because, and it's an interesting thing.
45:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, this is the thing that Colin and Samissa, they said there's a difference between an artist and a creator.
45:49
[SPEAKER_00]: An artist creates what they think is beautiful and great art.
45:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like this very selfish personal endeavor.
45:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They just want something that's great to them.
46:01
[SPEAKER_00]: a creator creates art for an audience.
46:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, you want people to consume what you're doing.
46:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not trying to be like in the basement with your like lovely painting that only you admire.
46:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you want there to be people that also love it too.
46:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that I'm kind of, I'm not pure artist, but I think I'm probably closer on the creator side, where,
46:27
[SPEAKER_00]: the integrity of the conversation is so important to me, but I also want it to hit like millions and millions of people and that's what we're able to do.
46:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, okay.
46:40
[SPEAKER_01]: How long was it till you got your first brand deal and what did that look like?
46:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's an interesting one.
46:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I had a video on my channel recently where I spoke about this.
46:51
[SPEAKER_00]: because really like, I got into this so green, like I didn't have any sort of media background.
46:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in like a journalist, I didn't work, I like think media or like,
47:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought that as soon as you have like a video that goes and you start getting views, I thought that they just hit your email, like that's what they just hit your inbox.
47:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm right.
47:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, I don't even know, all the companies are just there.
47:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It was not like that for me, even a little bit.
47:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's like that for anybody.
47:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think this is good.
47:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Right down the journey.
47:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, basically what happened, like we started to get traction.
47:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So after that first video got 900,000.
47:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, two weeks later, I don't know the video, I think it got 600,000 and 400,000.
47:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Five inch, like, we just kept going.
47:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, you're starting to think, like, I'm getting Adcent, so I'm like, wowed by the fact that YouTube's paying me first off.
47:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Because when the first video went, I had less than 1,000 subscribers.
47:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So the Adcent was coming in and then I was like, oh, you say you got your first brand deal when you had less than 1,000 subscribers.
47:57
[SPEAKER_00]: When I, when the first video went viral, I had less than 1,000.
48:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know.
48:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good.
48:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something for people to look forward to.
48:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a possibility.
48:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's the great thing about the platforms now is like anyone can, yeah, a breakthrough video.
48:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You can be the one video away.
48:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, at all times, which is why like why wouldn't you experiment and just put more shots on goal?
48:17
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a separate conversation.
48:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think with the, with the brand deal thing.
48:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember like I got to a level of frustration because I was like, I feel like we're doing great content and the niche is so good.
48:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we're doing business conversations and hundreds of thousands of people are watching like this doesn't really happen.
48:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, where are they?
48:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just reached this level of frustration where I was like, you know, and this is kind of just my story in general, I was like, I'm not going to wait.
48:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to make it happen.
48:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the first like,
48:49
[SPEAKER_00]: big name like brand name deal that we did.
48:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically it was this brand that I loved.
48:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a brand that's based on the UK.
48:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like a supplement.
48:59
[SPEAKER_00]: They do like protein powder and like these like drinks for the gym.
49:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But I used to drink it and I used to drink it right before I would record episodes.
49:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I told my editor, I'm tired of chasing what we're going to do is, I'm just going to record an adored and I'm not advocating for people to do this, but it worked for us.
49:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I'm just going to record an adored, I'm going to talk directly into the camera, I'm just going to tell the truth of how I used this product.
49:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's it, I'm going to do that for a minute, we're going to edit it, we're going to put it in the episode, I didn't even reach out to them.
49:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just like, we're gonna put it in the episode.
49:37
[SPEAKER_00]: At the end of the ad read, I basically said, I was like, I was just honest with the audience.
49:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, yeah, like, you know, I really want this sponsor, like it would be crazy, it'd be like a dream come true for me to have them as a sponsor.
49:53
[SPEAKER_00]: If you guys can just comment the name of the brand in the comment section, and we post the video, and I remember I went back like a week later,
50:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, how did that do?
50:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And I looked in the comments, it was just like the name of the brand, which just like, so many people had commented it.
50:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we basically, I found like the marketing manager or like the head of their partnerships or whatever.
50:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like someone that worked in marketing at that brand.
50:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And I sent them the screenshots with the ad read that we'd recorded.
50:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And then yeah, like a few weeks later, we had a deal with them.
50:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was how we got our first one.
50:30
[SPEAKER_01]: break the belief bro.
50:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I think anyone could sponsor their own videos with either your own product or sign up as an affiliate.
50:42
[SPEAKER_01]: If a company sells something and you can sign up an affiliate as an affiliate, pretty much anything you use in your life.
50:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I think with such a cool way the way that you did it.
50:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if I think had it been the reverse, it might have created a bad experience, or even the way you would have crafted that adread would have been different because there would have been a money exchange already.
51:08
[SPEAKER_01]: do what a gem.
51:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you're listening or watching, congratulations, you just got your first brand deal.
51:14
[SPEAKER_01]: What's a product that's literally changed your life that you use consistently and talk about it and then you could either link to it but I love that you even asked the audience to do that because that created some buzz and it also showed that how much your audience is like for you.
51:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, in the wanting this to keep going.
51:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my big
51:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
51:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that a lot of the times as creators and I get it because this is how I was in the beginning is like
51:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We're so much looking for that first video that goes viral or like goes that like validates us and makes us feel good about the experience that sometimes we forget what the journey of this is and it is a beautiful journey and for me I always want to involve the audience in the journey like my audience got me my first brand deal.
52:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like I just think that that's so it's great in the story of the show, you know, and I think about it like that like we're building a story like we're going on
52:18
[SPEAKER_00]: what I believe will be like a multi year to multi decade run and like when you go in the beginning you're going to be able to say like oh I was one of the viewers that commented the name of that brand got him his first deal and I just think that that's like a beautiful thing and and my mindset a lot of the times is like her with brands.
52:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes when you're not getting what you want, and entrepreneurs will relate with this, you just have to go prove it.
52:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I got two in terms of my mindset.
52:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I'm tired of waiting, I'm just gonna go and prove it, and then I'm gonna bring them the proof.
52:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And so make it easy for them to say yes.
52:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So good.
52:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So how long ago was that?
53:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you mentioned something, you said, I asked my editor.
53:04
[SPEAKER_01]: How long are you doing YouTube by yourself until you're like, okay, I need to start building out a team and then what happened to the results after you started adding help to the process?
53:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, I was kind of interesting in that sense.
53:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the only episode that I've personally edited for the show was the first one.
53:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
53:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So you had a team from the jump.
53:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess one of the teams here.
53:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like an editor, I guess.
53:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have a fan.
53:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That no one wins on YouTube would out of team.
53:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:36
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, I think so, yeah.
53:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
53:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe somebody's like, I've been posting consistently, but you've been doing it all by yourself.
53:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That could literally be the linchpin.
53:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Add somebody in the process at some level.
53:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody who could strategize with you is somebody who could edit the video, something.
53:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're on the simplest level.
53:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like,
53:55
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that all like the YouTube gurus or like they always tell you, and it's the most frustrating thing when you hear it, they're like, oh, you just have to be consistent man, I'm about to always hear that, I just be consistent dude, I'm like, it's always annoying, but before you, like before anything happens on your channel, that's like the most frustrating thing to hear.
54:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is the truth.
54:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the way that I thought about it in the beginning is how can I make it easy for me to be consistent?
54:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the experience of me editing the first video was so like tumultuous and like arduous for me.
54:30
[SPEAKER_00]: like because I'm not an editor, I don't have a background in doing it.
54:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it took me so long.
54:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, if this is what it's going to be every week, I'm not going to be consistent at doing this.
54:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'd rather pay and in the beginning it was so basic, like the edits, but like I would rather just pay someone like 100 bucks or 100 if like whatever it is so that they can edit it and I do it consistently.
54:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is so good because the journey is so real.
54:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people want it to happen quickly, but you don't want it to happen quickly.
55:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You want it to like who you're becoming in the process is very powerful and the person that started the Kalim Johnson show to who he is now, relationally skill set, leadership.
55:14
[SPEAKER_00]: like legit emissive like you have a brand-new contract now like you know like all that's it you know like honestly I get I get really um I have a lot of energy for it because I wish like for the person that's all the entrepreneur the creator that's like posting right now and it's like not going and they're like frustrated and just over the whole process
55:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish that I could shake them and let them know when you do make it, because it will happen.
55:43
[SPEAKER_00]: If you just keep putting videos out, you're going to have one hit and when that one hits, the timing...
55:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we talk about God's timing, like the timing is going to be so perfect, and that's what it was like for me because if I had blown up in the first 10 videos, I wouldn't be where I am now, like the fact that it took me so long and I had to learn all of these things and like feel the pain.
56:09
[SPEAKER_00]: and that like going back to the drawing board countless times is what created the longevity.
56:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And people will say that to me now that I can't believe that your show's doing this and like has been doing this for like years.
56:21
[SPEAKER_00]: with the team that we have and like funding this all and like bootstrapping it all ourselves.
56:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was because I spent the time in the trenches learning this thing.
56:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what creates the longevity.
56:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, if anyone that's listening at home, when it does happen, you are going to be so grateful.
56:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot express that deeply enough, emphasise it enough.
56:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be so grateful that it took time.
56:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Because things that take a long time lost a long time, and you lastly just break down.
56:52
[SPEAKER_00]: the finances year one year two year three yeah yeah okay so I might be I might be slightly off with specific numbers years are messed up from when you uploaded your first video but so like the first year so I mean I mean year three I guess of doing it so the first year I was doing it I was doing it while I was working my job so we made no revenue the first year the second year something on
57:19
[SPEAKER_00]: add sense, something, no?
57:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
57:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even have, so like the first year of me doing the show, we weren't even really on YouTube like that.
57:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was a lot of it was audio and then we kind of go into YouTube at like the end of that year.
57:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So we definitely made zero the first year.
57:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I guess it was worse than zero.
57:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like miners because I was spending money.
57:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, second year, sure.
57:39
[SPEAKER_00]: That was like right when the channel really started to blow up.
57:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think a second year,
57:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm gonna mess up like the year, like the periods.
57:54
[SPEAKER_00]: but we probably made like 1890,000.
57:57
[SPEAKER_00]: What was your salary at the job you were working at?
58:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, so when I quit, I was making a 97,000 a year.
58:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It was really salary.
58:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was really good.
58:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It was really, it was real good.
58:08
[SPEAKER_00]: When I was living in my mom's house, I was like, oh, why did I leave this, did he?
58:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, I think, on the, in the last year, I know this year, we're on track to do just under 300,000.
58:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do that's crazy like because people aren't seeing year three when you start in year one Yes, but if you just like at this is like most people and this might be a message and you it's like you really resonate with it But it's like if you could just see
58:36
[SPEAKER_01]: where you'll be in three years and it is like shout out to crypto and Bitcoin, but when it comes to like human connection, purpose, impact, being a consistent creator, adding value to your industry, your space, humanity, the compound effect that will take place both internally and externally is something you can't not fathom.
59:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
59:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think you were going to 3x your salary in just essentially 2 years from quitting your job?
59:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
59:09
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
59:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
59:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was weird to me.
59:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I didn't even really, it sounds weird.
59:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't, I didn't even think that much about it.
59:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you, you get, and you kind of,
59:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably actually different as an entrepreneur because you're always looking at those metrics but like I was just getting better and better and better and it's like it's the same in business in a sense of it's really hard on the upslope like when you're going up the hill it feels like you have like a bolder type behind your back and everything is difficult once you start, once it starts getting downhill it can happen really fast man and I tell people that I'm like
59:46
[SPEAKER_00]: things can change really quick.
59:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can go from being like down and out to like the biggest thing around really fast.
59:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like just keep going in that season.
59:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And that season is gonna make you.
1:00:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's when you're creating the character, the person that can actually be successful in this.
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I appreciate you.
1:00:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for helping on course.
1:00:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I did grateful for you grateful for our connection and glad to do more conversations.
1:00:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
1:00:17
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of many.
1:00:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.
1:00:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah fire so much.