Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 475 - What Can Vietnamese Learn From Black America? - Ryan Lex

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475 - What Can Vietnamese Learn From Black America? - Ryan Lex · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Vietnamese podcast um you know I didn't set out thinking about this but somebody pointed out recently I had a few African American guests on recently but it is
0:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Black History Month right now in February.
0:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But I didn't, this is not by design.
0:17
[SPEAKER_02]: This is by intuition.
0:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is really by like this itch to really talk about, because after this bad bunny thing for me, I'm like, we need a really, I need to get further out from the Vietnamese and reach out to more of my mainstream counterparts like you.
0:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So Ryan, welcome to Vietnamese podcast.
0:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely man, I'm glad to be here, glad to have this conversation.
0:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's gonna be fun, I think.
0:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So you and I met actually two Lunar New Years ago, right?
0:46
[SPEAKER_02]: We did campaign for Harris through Quincy.
0:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, shout out to Quincy for putting us together.
0:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've always wanted to have you on the podcast, but I just was not ready to launch beyond the Vietnamese topics, but now we are finding ourselves squarely in
1:05
[SPEAKER_02]: the ring with a tag teaming, you know, this weird kind of like this weird world that we're in.
1:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And I today I really want to talk about like this idea of, are we really, are we overreacting to like identity politics and issues in America?
1:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Because are we really being targeted?
1:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You and me, like we are
1:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Tall decent looking guys and are we really being targeted like somebody asked me the other night like Are you really being target like why do you have such a chip on your shoulder?
1:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to ask you the same thing Yeah, it's when I hear that I'm like, oh, I'm sorry for caring about my community my bad I'll stop I'm sorry.
1:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll stop doing that.
1:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so sorry because like yeah, it's like you know I think in America it's complex right because you have grace and class
1:56
[SPEAKER_00]: and race is a social construct to, you know, that is not ethnicity or nationality, but sometimes gets blended in there.
2:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's class, right?
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I come from somewhat privileged background.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm only privileged because my parents work so hard to, like, you know, afford to send me
2:18
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, to live in a certain neighborhood, you know, but, but even then it's like the way that I think about it too, my mom was Chinese immigrant.
2:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Dad's black was born and raised in poverty in the south and, you know, worked, was the first person in his family to graduate high school.
2:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the first to go to college, first one to get a law degree, then moved from the south to LA.
2:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was still always a struggle for him, right?
2:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he had no support system.
2:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know?
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, was he privileged?
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: In the fact that he was a lawyer, I guess, yes, but like, when you have no network and no support system and no one to talk to, while you're going through that process, can be daunting.
3:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And then my mom was the same thing.
3:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, she came from, from Taiwan to America.
3:07
[SPEAKER_00]: and had no sub-ort system, but still found a certain level of success and then prioritize education to me and my brother when we were growing up, and you know, that cost money.
3:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Where's the money coming from from their pockets that they worked really hard for?
3:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and they're spending it on their damn kids.
3:27
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so it, and there wasn't a plethora of it, right?
3:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I, when I talk about privilege, it's like, yeah, I had privilege, but like,
3:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We were like on the cusp and, you know, any money that we had, we put it towards, they put it towards my future.
3:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we didn't live in luxury, but we worked really hard to get into the schools and get in around the circles and the networks that we needed to be in.
3:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
3:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, let me, let me address this, because, um,
3:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You know Shakespeare, you always think about this term, thou dust, a protest a little too much.
4:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You are talking a little bit about too much about coming from privilege and what I'm trying to say is this.
4:11
[SPEAKER_02]: You are clearly have stood on the side of really trying to bring justice into the African-American world, the Chinese world, but you also acknowledge heavily that you are coming from privilege.
4:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But what makes you why do you think that you have this
4:35
[SPEAKER_02]: empathy to fight for African-American, Chinese culture, when so many people in America have made it.
4:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
4:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And they just, they have so much money.
4:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
4:48
[SPEAKER_02]: If they're like, no, no, no, we are like citing on the side of power.
4:51
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to help.
4:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
4:54
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to help the minority people.
4:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to help people of color.
4:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're talking about even people from our communities,
5:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking specifically about that, yeah.
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: How is it that you come from privilege and you are now like turning back and going, you know what, I got to still help my community.
5:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You just said it like a few minutes ago, you said, oh, I'm sorry.
5:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I got to help my community here and you know, where's that empathy come from?
5:19
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great question.
5:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the reason I talk about my identity and my privilege quote on quote,
5:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Privileges such a loaded word.
5:31
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a spectrum of it.
5:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Just like there's a spectrum of how much you embrace your identity and what that means.
5:41
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I'm just like, I know my history.
5:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what it comes on us to is like, education specifically about your own community.
5:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
5:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is something that does not exist in our educational system in America.
5:55
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't go out and get it outside of the system, then you're at the whim of what the American education system that is not founded by us, no one that's creating it, the curriculum looks like us.
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're telling us about ourselves.
6:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So what are they gonna say about us when they're not us?
6:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean, if the foundation of our country is based on our exploitation by people that look that look like them those people's ancestors are writing the history then like then it then it starts to become crystal clear why even our own people.
6:29
[SPEAKER_00]: would not look back or even look at their own community and want to help.
6:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes like even exploit their own community because we've seen that, you know.
6:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And the most well-intentioned educators or bookwriters for schools are still trying to do their best.
6:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I acknowledge that they're doing their absolute best to like be inclusive in the history, but they still miss the target by miles.
6:56
[SPEAKER_02]: and not missing of the target really leads down to boots on the ground.
7:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And it just doesn't it doesn't work.
7:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're here trying to really infuse this understanding into the mainstream culture.
7:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's why we're like, there's a community of us that just work on this identity over and over and over and beat it up, beat it into people's brains.
7:18
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's still
7:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, we live in this entertainment era, right?
7:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Where people's attention spans are so short.
7:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for me, the challenge is how do I educate, but make it entertaining?
7:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
7:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be funny.
7:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be entertaining.
7:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to grab your attention.
7:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be relevant.
7:41
[SPEAKER_00]: you know what I mean?
7:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that has always been the dance for me because like, I mean, I went to drama school and I'm an actor.
7:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Those gives me the skills to the sort of like transmute the things that I find important about my community that I want to share, but then you know, put it in a in a structure.
8:01
[SPEAKER_00]: that is digestible to people who are just like scrolling on TikTok.
8:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the average person that's scrolling on TikTok, black, white, Asian, doesn't matter.
8:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, is this an access point, right?
8:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, once I think, you know, when you can trick someone's mind, you can get to their heart, right?
8:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't mean that in a manipulative way, but maybe I do, but like it's humorous, right?
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And then once they get in there, then it's like, okay, now you're in my sphere, you're in my world.
8:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're welcome here.
8:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna educate you, but you're gonna have fun.
8:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not gonna attack you, you know?
8:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that is kind of missing, especially in our like, very, very binary society, politically.
8:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I see it and other people, it's really refreshing because I understand these conversations are very complex.
9:00
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, and within the complexity, there's a joy to really understand your humanity and be able to explain it to someone that does not look like you and doesn't understand your culture in a giving way, so that you can actually have a conversation, but the challenge there and you know this kind of is like
9:20
[SPEAKER_00]: people aren't talking like that because they're so inundated by the arguments and the immediate gut reactions to say like, oh, you don't agree with me on that?
9:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, FU and I don't want to hear anything else you have to say.
9:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
9:36
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think we would be talking about if we didn't have this identity problem?
9:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what would we
9:45
[SPEAKER_02]: What would be as Americans who are people of color?
9:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so many ask me that.
9:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So many legit ask me like, do you know who you are?
9:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause you all you talk about is the Vietnamese identity and the culture of Vietnam.
10:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You just, that's all you think about that you're obsessed about that.
10:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so nice.
10:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, I push, I push so hard against that because I'm like, people talk about basketball all the time.
10:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're not coming after them.
10:12
[SPEAKER_00]: People talk about gardening and their passion for gardening.
10:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're not coming after them.
10:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if we want to talk about our culture that we're very proud of.
10:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to attack that that sounds like you proud you problem.
10:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think this person wasn't attacking me this person was just questioning like who are the core who am I in the core and I'm just want to ask you that like yeah, who are you at the core if you are not a black American slash Chinese American like who are you other than like are Is America that
10:46
[SPEAKER_02]: fucked up, that we are just so obsessed with with this problem of the, yeah, do we keep dividing our people because we're just constantly talking about the divisiveness of it.
10:58
[SPEAKER_00]: That's such a great question, because like that it's not, to me, it's not a problem, you know, like it's not my problem.
11:10
[SPEAKER_00]: person who's asking the question has a problem.
11:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I'm saying?
11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, because like, why is me talking about my identity and how much I love it and bringing joy and the education about it to other people of problem?
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's really the question.
11:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if someone asked me that, you know, I've had people comment, it's like, why do you, and you just said that you, you know, experiences, it was like, why do you always talk about being black and Asians?
11:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, because that's what I want to talk about.
11:37
[SPEAKER_00]: it's really that simple and it's not a problem.
11:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can't make me think that I'm a problem because I'm proud of who I am and I want to talk about it.
11:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really that simple.
11:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I don't know what else to say really.
11:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I listen to that voice, if I listen to that critique too much,
12:00
[SPEAKER_00]: and I allow it to make me second guess myself.
12:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, now it is a problem for me, but I created that problem by letting that in.
12:07
[SPEAKER_00]: But I still think that hearing those people say that is a blessing in itself.
12:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not gonna think those individual people, but
12:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a blessing in itself because then you know how it's being received and how there's people out there that are like I don't get this man Why you always talking about this, but then that just re reiterates like the foundation of America to me.
12:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, is that like people see identity as a threat Why are you why do you see and I someone's identity and them embracing it as a threat again?
12:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a you problem Yeah, but again, that's an American problem.
12:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's an American problem because of the educational system that we are born and bred in
12:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I had an African American woman with need to go come on the podcast twice in the last two weeks and she's now living in Vietnam and that's how I met her, but she had a post recently about.
13:03
[SPEAKER_02]: we as Americans live in a very binary way.
13:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And she goes, once you get to a country like Vietnam who's completely ignorant of the struggle of black America, you realize that we, as Americans, carry this idea, this binary idea of like,
13:22
[SPEAKER_02]: we're either good or not good, we're either poor, we're not poor, we're either in that class of being popular or we're not.
13:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, there are so many other ways to exist when you live outside of America and in America, that's all we are measured by.
13:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to ask you your experiences today, sound very strong and very, you've figured it out where your positioning is.
13:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Where did that come from?
13:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Mom, dad, or just bumping up against, just saw this conflict out in the real world.
13:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it comes from a lot.
14:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it comes from the way that I was raised, right?
14:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I was raised to embrace both cultures.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I was raised fully in both cultures.
14:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, my parents were always like, you're 100% Oh, well, Chinese are 100% black and so that's how I carry myself, you know?
14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, also it's like, the way that I look, I think that, because I'm phenotypically or whatever, the word is people see me.
14:26
[SPEAKER_00]: as like, you know, a light-skinned African-American or like a Puerto Rican or Brazilian.
14:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's fine.
14:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not delusional about that, but like, if I literally am Asian, if it's in my DNA, then I look Asian.
14:41
[SPEAKER_00]: and it doesn't matter, you know, if people look at me and don't see that, but that's what I am, so that's what I look like.
14:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always say, like, it's not that I don't look Asian use, you just never seen an Asian like me before, because I don't allow other people's opinions to define me.
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is not an American thing, that's like a universal human thing, that people just accept.
15:08
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, if they see me that way, then I guess I should act that way.
15:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, six years ago, when stop Agent Hayden and BLM was popping off and then there were kind of at odds with each other.
15:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when I started to really talk about my identity and talk about my upbringing and start to share that with the world.
15:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But I have no idea that people like actually there was a community and there is people that wanted to talk about this and that it wouldn't power.
15:36
[SPEAKER_00]: and impact both my communities and outside of my communities, right?
15:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the message is human and it's universal, you know what I'm saying?
15:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, another thing I want to say too, like, you were talking about the black woman that you had in your podcast that was, as she said, like, oh, you know,
15:56
[SPEAKER_00]: in America, this is how black people feel.
15:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I moved to China and lived there for half a year, it was the safest and the most free I've ever felt because I didn't have to deal with that on a daily basis.
16:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have to deal with my identity in the same way that I have to do in America, which until I moved to China, I didn't even know that I could live free like that.
16:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, a whole weight was off my shoulder because I didn't have to prove my intelligence.
16:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have to prove that I belonged here.
16:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have to make people feel safe all the time.
16:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And these are things that I unconsciously do in America.
16:33
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I got to China, I was like, oh, I don't have to do those things.
16:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a different experience, right?
16:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they would see me and be like, whoa, I've never seen something like that before.
16:43
[SPEAKER_00]: A sixth, three lights can brown man.
16:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to stare at it.
16:48
[SPEAKER_00]: and maybe ask it for a picture.
16:50
[SPEAKER_00]: you know what I mean?
16:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That was, yeah, I think that's what Whitney was talking about.
16:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so divisive here.
16:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very polarizing, but when you get to Asia, people are just like, oh, you know, it's like a novelty.
17:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You're just, yeah, you know, or do you speak fluent Mandarin?
17:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty good.
17:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to, yeah, it's now fluent, but yeah, but you're good.
17:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You're good.
17:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You're good enough to understand what's being said about you work.
17:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I can have, I could get it.
17:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you lived in China, did you kind of like experience not racism, but this perspective of how people, the native people in China saw you from their language?
17:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, I did experience racism, but, but like, nowhere near as what it was in America, right?
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause it's not the foundation of their country.
17:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And those experiences were very, very, very light, if racism can be light, but also seldom.
17:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And very far, and few, in between.
18:00
[SPEAKER_02]: But it doesn't come from a historical place where I'm going to lynch you.
18:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be jealous.
18:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't come from hate.
18:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It's come from a curiosity.
18:08
[SPEAKER_00]: It came from curiosity and obliviousness, right?
18:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So is that racism?
18:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
18:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even think it really was racism.
18:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be, right?
18:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it could be exported from the West, right, as an export, ideological export.
18:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But also, some of that could just be like, I've never seen something like you before.
18:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna otherwise you in a way, it is also kind of accepting, but that, you know, you don't experience that out here.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I grew up in the Chinese community out here, and like, they would straight up just say racist things, in Chinese, not knowing that I would understand, and I think living in China gave perspective.
18:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, oh, these are the same people, just in the home country.
18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: they came from here to America.
18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So then by nature of being immigrants to this country inherited this conditioning that condition and the things certain ways about certain ethnic groups in this country and where did that come from, right?
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Then that's the question.
19:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Did the conditioning of the American system turn these people that I'm experiencing in China into something else when they immigrated to America?
19:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a process you have to ask yourself.
19:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna go off on a little tangent here and you'll feel free to say, this is not really what I want to talk about, but I'm gonna go off on a tangent.
19:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more about dating, right?
19:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
19:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's well, how we as Asian Americans, Black Americans, look at our dating patterns.
19:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I spent a lot of time in the space for myself.
19:43
[SPEAKER_02]: As somebody who was very affected severely affected by this paradigm, when I was 17, I joined the military, and I was around a lot of white men who obviously dated white women naturally, and I was not, the door was not open for me, you couldn't, yeah.
20:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially when you were stationed like a place like San Diego or you were hired to some duty station that's like around a lot of white women and you're just like, wait, that door, I don't have access to that and this was like a night free.
20:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It affected me up until my mid-30s and I think there's still lingering effects that I write and I talk about and I think about on an obsessive level.
20:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm being
20:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm becoming more peace at peace with it, but I wanted to ask you about your experience and how you view you know this dynamic.
20:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll say this.
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say like it's really not and Denzel said this.
20:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not color.
20:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's culture, right?
20:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, because you can look like me and you can smell like me.
20:55
[SPEAKER_00]: but you might not see me as human because we don't have the same understanding of our own culture, right?
21:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Or understand the system that we're a part of, as well.
21:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, also being mixed, I'm just like, you know, it's really about the person.
21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Does this person see me as human?
21:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this person like engage in these conversations without judgment, right?
21:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That's really what it is.
21:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You're more likely maybe to find someone that is a person of color America that would understand your experience.
21:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll say that, but that's not like a hard-fast rule and it's not black and white, you know?
21:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's sort of my opinion on that.
21:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, I have a lot of conversations like this.
21:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and it's been years that I've been having these conversations and sometimes I'm surprised about the people who don't look like me, don't even come from my country, that understand my humanity are willing to listen and to draw parallels in their lives and their culture, that deep in bonds, that strength in deep in bonds that I didn't even know could exist.
22:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That we are on the right track and we just got to keep pushing.
22:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, but I have to have that temperature check with my audience because I feel like Alright, this has been ongoing for 400 years, maybe.
22:30
[SPEAKER_02]: When is this shit gonna turn around is getting worse in this country?
22:36
[SPEAKER_02]: They know
22:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we live on the far fringes of middle America.
22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't probably experience that, but we're looking at it and we're just going like, maybe there is no hope for.
22:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's getting worse.
22:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just they get worse.
22:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I do feel that way sometimes that there's no hope, but I do being in California is what I think gives me the hope.
23:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think also traveling around to different countries gives me hope.
23:06
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, we have to look at the power structure of this country and who holds the power and who holds the money and they don't look like us.
23:14
[SPEAKER_00]: They all look the same.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They all look the same.
23:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and that's kind of the problem.
23:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what if the people because I'm in Hollywood right I'm an actor, but if you keep going up the ranks The less they look like us and the more they look one way.
23:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and if you have people that are Greenlighting projects the only people that are greenlighting projects and they don't look up like us and those are the people that are in charge of how this whole ship moves and operates Then like
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're just sort of just like always asking for the man's permission, permission, but I think what's beautiful about this podcast, I think what's beautiful about like the worth that I do on social media is that like I don't have to ask for permission to create the concept that I want to create.
24:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the battles a little different because the algorithm and blah, blah, blah, there's controversy of
24:08
[SPEAKER_00]: of like, you know, are they demoting certain content, you know, or they not pushing certain content in the algorithm that is also not controlled by us, but yeah, I think I think podcasting social media and this new wave of digital media that is controlled by the creators is what gives me hope, you know, I can make the argument that I'm
24:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Perhaps this will never go away because when you think about China or Vietnam homogenous societies that they're all looking the same they all But you know, it divides them.
24:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It's class.
24:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's class.
24:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, how much money they have how educated they are It's all class, right?
24:48
[SPEAKER_02]: What what design or brands are wearing?
24:49
[SPEAKER_02]: What kind of cars are driving and what kind of house they live in?
24:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what divides human beings and and I'm and I'll make the argument that
25:02
[SPEAKER_02]: But maybe sitting on top of all that is class structured that we're not really seeing and it's really kind of pushed into our faces, the differences on how we look and how we carry ourselves in style.
25:18
[SPEAKER_02]: But really the question is, is it really about class or is it really about color?
25:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, more all of it.
25:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's about class, but they created race to make it even more difficult for people to rise out of their class.
25:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so in essence, it might not get ever get better, right?
25:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I think I'd damn it, I know.
25:42
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but I don't in this hard today.
25:45
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but, but I don't, I don't, I totally understand what you're saying.
25:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But to me, I'm just like, I have to have hope because it was the point of going on that we don't have a, you know, and we're always thinking about the future generation and making it better than the next.
26:01
[SPEAKER_00]: What, okay, what impassions me is like this whole rhetoric on social media about billionaires.
26:07
[SPEAKER_00]: and calling the elite class instead of calling it the elite class calling it the predator class because that's what they heard is the exploit the exploit the working class and they're eradicating the middle class and they're creating this wealth gap that is astronomical to the point where it's like almost
26:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's insane, and the wealth is not being shared, and trickle down economics has proven over and over again to be a myth, but I'm seeing all these young people teenagers even, realizing these facts, right?
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And then once you realize it, you can't unrealize it.
26:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So something has to happen, and we do have,
26:51
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... i don't have that much faith in politics really i have more faith in the people rising up and then maybe using politics as a means to achieve what we want you know uh... but i'm really i'm hopeful about the younger generation like being educated enough to actually do something about it because my generation the millennials the gen access we were not having those conversations are being educated about this at all
27:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we were distracted in a different way, right?
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: People say like, oh, Gen Z is distracted.
27:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, sure they are.
27:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they don't have the attention span of like a goldfish.
27:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, sure, but like are you listening to what?
27:31
[SPEAKER_00]: They are paying attention to and what they're saying.
27:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like, they're more prime for a movement than we ever were, right?
27:40
[SPEAKER_00]: From what they're taking in on their social media platforms.
27:44
[SPEAKER_00]: The rhetoric that they're hearing on a daily basis.
27:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, about social movements and class war movements.
27:51
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the hope I have, man.
27:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you had a brace that hope because it's scary.
27:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It's dark and it's very scary.
27:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
27:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you think about billionaires, right?
28:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I talk to people that I love and respect and every one of them has confirmed.
28:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You never become a billionaire.
28:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You can never reach billionaire status without screwing.
28:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a general population.
28:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It's possible.
28:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to exploit in some kind of way, but also it's like, people don't understand how much a billion dollars is.
28:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't understand.
28:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They can't fathom it.
28:21
[SPEAKER_00]: They think it's like when we were kids and talking about a million dollars, it's not the same at all and you don't need that.
28:30
[SPEAKER_00]: and you have people striving towards that, not understanding, like, no, that's an exploitative system that we're living in, and then you have to exploit to get it.
28:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you think about it, right?
28:38
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think about it, you could pay these Amazon drivers and these Amazon workers double, double it, or like, easily pay, and we're like, what they should be paid, which is like, maybe triple quadruple, because
28:52
[SPEAKER_00]: the wages haven't increased in 40 years.
28:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, you know?
28:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And then everybody would be banging down Amazon's dorm and like, oh, I want a driver job.
28:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I want to be some clerical worker in the Amazon country would be better.
29:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be better.
29:06
[SPEAKER_00]: We're actually being paid a living wage so we can actually afford housing and actually afford these goddamn groceries.
29:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it would actually make America great.
29:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is not what America is about, it's about profits and increasing shareholder value for these little round conference table people that are very, very few, less than like point one of the population, you know, like $350 billion.
29:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you need that much money?
29:41
[SPEAKER_00]: How did you even get that amount of money, you know?
29:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And like what would you, what do you do with that?
29:50
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you do with that?
29:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't need that.
29:52
[SPEAKER_00]: If I had that amount of money, I would be giving it to people I would be curing hunger.
29:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I would take whole populations and cities out of poverty.
30:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But to get that, these people created more poverty.
30:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're not interested in that doing that because they created it to get to that wealth.
30:12
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I kind of like these women that are divorcing their billionaire husbands and giving all their money to charity.
30:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's the movement, can it?
30:21
[SPEAKER_00]: We just, we just like, hope these people get divorced and then take half the money and then give it back to the people.
30:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this or, or you just lock up every one of these billionaires that were on the Epstein files.
30:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how difficult could that be?
30:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we know that.
30:35
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not gonna get arrested.
30:37
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not gonna, they haven't faced any consequences.
30:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And we know why that's happening, because
30:43
[SPEAKER_02]: They're in control of this shit, but now we sound like a bunch of whining dudes that I want to feel more like I feel like I'm whining all the time and every one of my episodes I feel like I'm just complaining all the time and I'm like I want to ask you what can you do beyond just talking heads yes as as
31:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's not just America, I'm sure this is happening in Europe and Asia, like what needs to happen with the human consciousness?
31:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And I asked this question to some of my friends and they were just like, all it takes is a few days of you not going to work.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, of course, I mean organizing or organizing, if we could all just not pay taxes and not go to work,
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, these very convoluted social issues that these billionaire class, they create these thing tanks, right, that pump money into creating social dynamics that make us fight each other.
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like they will pay influencers.
31:57
[SPEAKER_00]: to push forth propaganda, push forth anti-black, anti-trans, anti homophobic agendas so that we fight each other about that.
32:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're not, we can't even come together.
32:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a white poor Republican can't come together with someone who a person of color that is under the same poverty-stricken circumstances from the system, they can't come together because they're like,
32:23
[SPEAKER_00]: even though we're suffering, I'm going to blame you and even though I'm suffering, I'm going to say you're pushing me down when like these dudes up at the top are the ones they do not care.
32:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I, I, I, one of the people that I admire the most was Fred Hampton and the rainbow coalition before RIP Jesse Jackson,
32:46
[SPEAKER_00]: took it to the mainstream in like the 80s.
32:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Fred Hampton was organizing the Latinos and poor Latinos, Latino gangs, black people, Asian people, the poor white south together.
33:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Together.
33:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what they did to him?
33:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He was only 21.
33:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what they did to him?
33:11
[SPEAKER_00]: They owned a lot of
33:15
[SPEAKER_00]: This is fact and it is in classified documents from the FBI and the CIA that are public knowledge now.
33:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I say education is so important because like people don't know this.
33:28
[SPEAKER_00]: People, if I say this, it'll be like, ah, let's conspiracy.
33:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not conspiracy, dude.
33:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at the database right now.
33:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And they release it, I think, when they know that people won't care, when they've defunded education enough to the point where people don't care, when people are so glued to their phones and watching Cocoa Mellon, that they can't even, like, think for a second,
33:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I pushed back on like, I don't think we're whining.
33:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we're complaining.
33:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're educating and telling the truth.
33:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the people that have been victims of this system of the defunding of education, of the propaganda that's being spewed in the misinformation that's being spewed in the anti this and the anti that that's tearing us apart.
34:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Those people are the victims.
34:16
[SPEAKER_00]: The people that are saying that we're complaining
34:21
[SPEAKER_00]: and what I have to do is constantly remind myself that we're all up against the system that is every day trying to tear a support.
34:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to be convinced that the person that's telling me shut up about my black and Asian identity is actually my enemy because that's not my enemy.
34:38
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a victim.
34:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So that sort of radical empathy and radical compassion is the
34:48
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, by not allowing that person to make me derail my course and actually listen to that person and understanding where they're coming from is going to help the revolution that needs to happen, you know, speaking of revolutions.
35:06
[SPEAKER_02]: you've actually spent I mean I don't know if you've spent time with him but I've seen you with President Obama and but that's not what we're getting it we can we can talk about like how that happened but but I'm more interested in
35:22
[SPEAKER_02]: When I look at President Obama, I have so much love for him.
35:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I have so much luck with respect, right?
35:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I look when fucking classy dude, roots, you know, he plays basketball.
35:32
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just like a guy's guy, but we also know though that he deported the most
35:38
[SPEAKER_02]: immigrant illegal quote unquote illegal aliens in his presidency who's known for that and we also know the wars and we also know all of the things that his responsible for in the machine right yeah but he didn't seem like that coming off of the streets of Chicago as an activist early in the pre-centitor kind of like existence right and I think to myself like you know
36:05
[SPEAKER_02]: we can't trust anybody in power.
36:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Even somebody we admire, we love, like President Obama, he's part of the system.
36:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But then again, it's like, okay, well, how much of this, how much of this buy-in that he had to do to like, in the dark arts of government and politics and money, did he have to sell himself to get,
36:33
[SPEAKER_02]: things accomplish, you know, like they have to live this life where it's impossible for them not to go with the flow.
36:42
[SPEAKER_02]: They have to like, and as much as we have love for President Obama and we're like, oh my god, we wish we could have the him back.
36:48
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, this big machine does not
36:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And don't mess around.
36:53
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a killing machine.
36:56
[SPEAKER_02]: America is a killing machine.
36:58
[SPEAKER_00]: This is America.
36:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, not to all lies matter this, but like we're all a part of the system.
37:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We all contribute it, contribute it to it in a certain way.
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Obama's challenge was like, if I don't,
37:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, find a way to work with these people.
37:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not getting anything done.
37:17
[SPEAKER_00]: These people will block me at every turn and they did.
37:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They blocked them at every turn and we know why they did, you know?
37:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So he would have to compromise on certain things.
37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, that like he didn't probably want to do in order to get certain concessions made for our community.
37:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
37:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And
37:38
[SPEAKER_00]: He's open about that to a certain extent, yeah.
37:41
[SPEAKER_00]: He's open about that and that's what I appreciate too because like listen man, being a person of color and a position of power that high when everyone like 90% of Congress is white men and granted Obama is half white.
37:59
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a white man and they still treated him that way.
38:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
38:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you asked him that question, you just asked him, he would have an answer.
38:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And he would blow you away with that answer.
38:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he would tell you, you know, here's where I stand, here's how I was raised, here's what I was up against.
38:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had to choose between a rock and a hard place because it's like, either I push mad hard to get this done and it obliterates things.
38:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And the clap back and the blow black
38:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like, look, we can all Monday morning quarterback and and also don't don't underestimate the fact that like there are people pushing pushing misinformation that we do not question about his administration.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: People that we think are well-intentioned and they're telling the truth when really they're grifters.
38:55
[SPEAKER_00]: They've just won our trust, but now the billionaire think tanks have got them.
39:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And now they're grifter light while still being a part of our ranks.
39:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they had FBI informants in the Black Panthers that we never knew.
39:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that's how they toppled them.
39:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with the nation of Islam against Malcolm X, right?
39:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm always questioning like, where is this data coming from?
39:25
[SPEAKER_00]: he got rid of more immigrants like there's so much context to that and now it's not true anymore.
39:32
[SPEAKER_00]: With this pushing advice like it's astronomically moving out and it was during Obama's administration, right?
39:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like numbers change and numbers are that way for a reason.
39:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And the process was their due process with Obama.
39:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, as opposed to this were there, they went down the street from my house in Alhambra and they
39:52
[SPEAKER_00]: They basically kidnap Chinese immigrants.
39:56
[SPEAKER_00]: with no due process and they're holding people who actually are citizens, did they do that during the Obama administration?
40:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So these are questions that we have to really ask because it's not cut and dry and it's not black and white and the nuance is matter.
40:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the nuance is how you how you're leaning better because like if we don't remember that then we think that that's how that's how you can lose hope without the nuance like that's how you lose hope because it's like oh man every administration is the same it's like now some administrations are like this and some
40:26
[SPEAKER_00]: nose dives, you know?
40:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously we're in America, the foundation of our country is based on exploitation of people of color.
40:35
[SPEAKER_00]: We're always fighting against that because like deeply embedded in how we make our money and why we're a power in this world is by exploiting our own people, our own citizens.
40:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
40:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I always try to remind people like, no, no, you got me on my revolution.
40:56
[SPEAKER_00]: there are still slaves in America and they're not just black.
41:00
[SPEAKER_00]: They're every color.
41:01
[SPEAKER_00]: They're mostly black from the from the prison industrial complex in the school to prison pipeline.
41:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we have we have the most we have by far the hugeest prison population in all of the world.
41:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Like some, I forget what the numbers are, but it's like if you took the prison population of like the entire Western hemisphere, you still couldn't match it.
41:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still not as big as how many prisoners America has in their prison system.
41:32
[SPEAKER_00]: In the framework for large corporations for one set an hour, you know what I mean?
41:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're okay because they're prisoners.
41:40
[SPEAKER_00]: They deserve to be there.
41:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And you, they don't.
41:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, the bottom line is this.
41:45
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, I think it's very simple.
41:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, are there real evil people out there?
41:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
41:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But I would, I would, I would, my, my gut intuition is the percentage of very evil human beings is probably two to five percent in Acts.
42:07
[SPEAKER_02]: The other 95% is truly traumatized human beings that are trapped in a loop that could fix.
42:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Other countries can fix it.
42:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Other countries have prison,
42:21
[SPEAKER_02]: prison systems that rehab you out.
42:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, rehabilitate you.
42:26
[SPEAKER_02]: They rehabilitate you and they get you back on your feet and they figure out where that trauma point was and they go back and they really fix that.
42:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think when you can fix the 95% of people that were like,
42:42
[SPEAKER_02]: If you can heal them and bring them back to like, you know, feeling complete with their families and feeling complete as a loved human being, let's just say you get rid of 50% of that population and you bring them back and because most of them, I've met a lot of people who come out of prison for like 20, 25 years, look great guys, yeah, great guys, you know, they're really good for things and they were just like wayward and especially the Vietnamese deportees
43:11
[SPEAKER_02]: That early 70s, that late 70s, early 80s period, they didn't have families.
43:17
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't have us, you know, either mom and dad were like busy work and making money or they were shipped to the United States by their own parents who had to stay back in Vietnam and they went with uncle's and aunt.
43:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And they didn't have us into families.
43:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So that trauma, that pressure made them join gangs.
43:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they were like,
43:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Shooting up people and they were just doing things that were like out of trauma, but yeah, exactly.
43:40
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like good people.
43:42
[SPEAKER_02]: They're good people.
43:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're all good people.
43:43
[SPEAKER_00]: All good people.
43:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's because it's not just the rehabbing while they're there.
43:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the preventative measure so they don't have to exist in that kind of space and up in prison.
43:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's also like the punitive measures that Congress has pushed through after they are released from prison.
44:02
[SPEAKER_00]: doesn't allow them to be a full human or an active participant in society.
44:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of them go back and then the privatization of the prison industrial conflicts, these people are making money off of having these humans in these compounds, right?
44:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So like again, it's the capitalistic structure of America to exploit.
44:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, someone's in down and they're riding like, okay, we have this prison, these prisons.
44:28
[SPEAKER_00]: How do we make money off of them?
44:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we'll create through Congress like a certain population will create like an environment where there's crime.
44:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
44:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
44:41
[SPEAKER_00]: How are we going to stop the crime or keep it at base so it doesn't affect us?
44:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
44:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, invest billions of dollars in this police and the police forces, right?
44:51
[SPEAKER_00]: But we'll over-police these crime-in-fessen areas that we created through our like a legislation, right?
44:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's all just the money making scheme.
45:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
45:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
45:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it.
45:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So just to backtrack, it's like the preventative measure.
45:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So crime doesn't happen, so we don't have a prison population.
45:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's to actually make prison rehabilitative and to actually fund those programs within the prison system.
45:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's not, you know, creating this idea that criminals after they leave the prison system are inhuman and indecent and are not allowed to participate in society.
45:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Not so much that's where it's just human, just being human, you know, at all point do you shift from acting into politics, right?
45:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, man.
45:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't like politics.
45:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
45:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I understand that there's impact that could be made, but like, I think also just being in the belly of the beast, being invited to all these political events, you know.
46:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know how to say this.
46:04
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just like a divide between like, okay, so the people that actually do vote, right?
46:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Are not really like us.
46:17
[SPEAKER_00]: They're older and they don't have melanin.
46:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not people of color, you know?
46:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're not really trying to change that.
46:30
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not really trying to make it easier for people like the overall people to vote.
46:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that our communities are actually represented.
46:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if there's anything that I would want more of, it's like, to actually, but I think, you know, Mom Donnie being elected mayor of New York gave me a lot of hope because like, when there's a candidate that actually gets the people of color and the actual masses to vote, they always move towards like social programs.
46:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, taxing the people who find the loopholes, you know, taxing the predator class.
47:06
[SPEAKER_00]: so that the money actually is reinvested in the community.
47:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm more invested in that.
47:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I want people's voices to be heard, and I think that's why I gravitate more towards like social media, because it's more of a level playing field to get the message out, but if I did,
47:23
[SPEAKER_00]: run for Congress or run for political office like that would be my agenda.
47:29
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like to bring, actually bring the people together.
47:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It gets dirty because you need funding for your hands and you're going to go to conglomerate companies and then they're going to want you to lobby for their positions and then that's how you lose yourself.
47:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that could probably be really easy to lose yourself.
47:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But most people do lose themselves.
47:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Most politicians have to, otherwise you're not going to get the job done.
47:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to stay away, go away.
47:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But like AOC has proved that system wrong and Mondani has proved that system wrong.
47:59
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can get the people and you can get them to donate, you get millions of people, then you don't have to rely on the conglomerate companies.
48:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And now you have these people's hearts and their minds and their vote.
48:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's you can't be that's indestructible.
48:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you actually have the people and I think that's why the work the work that we do the social media work the the podcast work all of this communication on a grassroots levels so intense it's so intentional.
48:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And it has to be intense enough.
48:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think for me moving into the mainstream, like as I progressed off the next few years, it's mobilizing change in a way that it's, you know, we're here to make you think a little bit about, like what this structure looks like in America.
48:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not, I don't think it's what people think it is, you know?
48:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
48:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, you have to adapt with the times.
48:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if the times are like requiring bite size information and that's entertaining or in a human way or there's pops like colors, they'll be able to keep paying attention and that's part of the revolution.
49:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But you have to adapt to.
49:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the whole point is to get people to listen, right?
49:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And
49:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the challenges that I have like, oh, I want to say all these things.
49:18
[SPEAKER_00]: This is why I like podcasts because I can actually talk like I want to say all these things that are true.
49:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But like when I go to social media, I have to say it in a way that's like bite size and funny at the same time and sometimes that can be
49:33
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, it's own challenge that it's restrictive, again, it's restrictive, but the goal is still an intentional thing that can be very impactful, so that's what keeps me going.
49:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a lot of experience living in both the black world, the Chinese world working together or coming together?
49:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a lot of experience?
49:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you see a lot of that?
49:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, yes, because that was my household.
50:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But on the bigger world, in the major, creating it, I'm creating it as I go.
50:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I just got funding for my organization called Bloom, which is like a cross-cultural organization that brings communities, color together, and the priority for me at least in the beginning is the black and Asian communities, and
50:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously that, like, I've faced challenges because, you know, a lot of often often, right, and you know this, a lot of times when the black community comes together with the age of community, it's trauma and it's tragedy, that strikes.
50:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And for me, I'm like, okay, how do we go together when we don't have to rely on trauma and tragedy and trauma?
50:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:42
[SPEAKER_00]: How do we just exist in a space together because we love our culture?
50:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and for me, the bridge is like bringing blasions together that grew up in households like mine.
50:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And then them organically bringing the people, their families, their friends that are already like bought into the system of of solidarity by nature of their shared blood.
51:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, that branch is off into friends.
51:07
[SPEAKER_00]: that are part of these structures already, and you just sort of bloom out from that perspective.
51:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what I'm trying to build momentum doing, you know what I mean?
51:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like oftentimes we don't even exist in the same space.
51:20
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and for me, I'm like, you could share food.
51:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We could play Majong, play Domino's at the same time, have a dual tournament.
51:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We can play Spades.
51:28
[SPEAKER_00]: We can eat fried chicken, fried rice.
51:31
[SPEAKER_00]: We can bring our food together.
51:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We can bring our music together.
51:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
51:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna appreciate each other on a human level.
51:40
[SPEAKER_00]: because so often it's like, yeah, well, they appropriated black culture and they, well, they appropriated Asian culture.
51:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, then bring those two artists together to have a talk.
51:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But something that, like, healed me, like, so much was seeing Kenyan Martin and Jeremy Lynn, like, tapping each other up and having a conversation on laughing with each other when, like, they had beef on social media because they said they both were appropriating each other's culture.
52:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
52:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And then to see them squash that beef and just be like, no, it's all love.
52:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we actually do like each other's culture.
52:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why, you know, Danielle Markin was black NBA player had a Chinese tattoos.
52:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why, you know, Jeremy Lynn had his hair the way he had it.
52:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he's like, I love this man and I know the history.
52:25
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, don't come at me like I don't know that.
52:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I understand why you are, right?
52:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, let's all treat each other as human and actually have a conversation.
52:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I'm about and that's the message that I want to spread and then of course it starts with the black and Asian first because you know I'm biased and that's right.
52:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I am that's what I understand but like bringing other cultures and into the fold as well.
52:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like.
52:49
[SPEAKER_00]: make us understand like we're all human man and and and and that doesn't have to be tied to the to the to the to the overall revolution.
52:58
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a revolution in and of itself.
52:59
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the foundation.
53:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
53:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
53:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And we can sort of slowly throw in here.
53:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you don't start with billionaires are evil.
53:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You start with, like, let's enjoy our humanity and exist in the same space.
53:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more important than anything else.
53:14
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm saying, you know?
53:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a few years ago, 2015 years ago, I was out of factory that I rented, like factory space on Crenshaw and Jefferson around that neighborhood in mid-City.
53:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I know exactly where this is.
53:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
53:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's Angeles church is right there?
53:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was there for about two, three years, but I don't know what it was at the end of the two, three years.
53:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know it was the end coming, but towards the end of my journey at that factory that I that I that I that I actually live and worked there, I was like,
53:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I got to, I, you know, I studied voice when I was a younger man and I was like, I want to sing in the choir with senseless, right?
53:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they make you do this like four week orientation, right?
53:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And you go through every Thursday night, you, or you just got a clock in four Thursdays and then they give you like membership.
54:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
54:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you can then you can audition for the 17 pliers that they have, right?
54:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just finished my fourth orientation and about to get my certificate of like you what welcome to West Angeles.
54:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I had to move factories and that's moved to Carlos.
54:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So I never went back and I just have this like driving urge every year to go to West Angeles.
54:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But now I have a seven and eight
54:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Once she wants to become a singer and I'm like, I want to sing at West Angeles and I want her to be in one of those 17 choirs.
54:44
[SPEAKER_02]: She's probably in like the little junior choirs that they have and I want to sing in, you know, the old people's choir.
54:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And I keep bringing that up with her and she said to me, a two weeks ago, she said, do you think the black community will welcome us?
55:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I don't know.
55:01
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good question.
55:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So great question.
55:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Ask him the question.
55:05
[SPEAKER_00]: She's not like, Danny, I don't want to go.
55:07
[SPEAKER_00]: They won't accept me, you know?
55:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause I can ask him the question.
55:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So keep pointing out like out in John Adel, the Beatles.
55:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all foundational black church, black rock and roll, like early early, you know, 20s and 30s and 40s in America.
55:22
[SPEAKER_02]: This is where the soul of all of this music around the world, this has genetic imprints.
55:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
55:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, I've always wanted to talk about this stuff on my podcast, but this is the first time I'm actually being able to talk about it.
55:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It has genetic imprint.
55:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, and I want her to witness that.
55:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, okay, but then that dips into this whole conversation about appropriation.
55:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's 10,000 people at this church, it's a mega church.
55:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sure there's
55:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I have very nefarious reasons for going to the church because I want to expose my daughter and myself to the soul of the music there.
56:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
56:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Music, the connection might be first and God might be second in this equation.
56:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
56:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that is completely different than exploitation or appropriation because you're actually joining the community.
56:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Joining the community is completely different than extracting from the community.
56:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You're in the community, you're with the people, you're forming community and relationships with the people.
56:31
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the opposite of appropriation.
56:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
56:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, I think there needs to be more of a conversation of like what appropriate Asian actually is because there's so much fear around it because no one's teaching it about what it is, everyone's just calling it out.
56:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Blindly, yeah, sometimes too.
56:50
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when they don't call out the history of the person that is so quote unquote appropriating.
56:57
[SPEAKER_00]: you know what I mean?
56:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did the person come from?
57:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Who are their friends?
57:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Where's their community?
57:02
[SPEAKER_00]: How did they learn to sing like that?
57:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, is it a copying or is it like, no, I was raised in this or I had a genuine interest in the community and in the music and the way that I wanted to appreciate that more and learn that was through the community.
57:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a completely different ride, right, right, right, right, right.
57:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I was raised, and I'm trying to get to terms of this, but things are transactional, coming from a Vietnamese, American, my parents thought in very transactional terms.
57:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, and it's a ridiculous two.
57:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, oh, you gotta just check yourself and make sure that people don't think that you're going there for a reason that you're trying to, you know what I mean?
57:46
[SPEAKER_02]: But like you said, that's a very Asian perspective, right?
57:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I understand that too.
57:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to be there.
57:53
[SPEAKER_02]: The, the black community in that way.
57:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and look, the black community is very, they'll snuff, they'll sniff out the Insincereity in authenticity, you know what I mean?
58:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you are just there in treating them human, you're like, I love your music, and They'll love you.
58:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the black community is the most like when you actually are stepping foot into with them and treating them like humans, they're the most
58:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, kind, gracious, like welcoming people on the planet Earth.
58:28
[SPEAKER_00]: but they also are the most exploited, you know?
58:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So there is this, it's funny because there's both sides of the spectrum, right?
58:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you come to them as human, and you actually talk to them because the black community's not really used to people not being afraid, you know?
58:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause like, we've been made out to be criminals and scary
58:52
[SPEAKER_00]: to not just Americans but like the world.
58:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, because how we've been portrayed in the media that has been exported to the rest of the world.
59:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But as you step foot into a church in a choir, and you are just like a fun loving and appreciative person, like you're gonna have no problems, man.
59:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I'd like to have to do that very soon.
59:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
59:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And the world will benefit from it, and your family will benefit from it, you know?
59:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Ryan, thank you so much for agreeing to do this podcast is so enjoyable and you know I welcome you back if you have absolutely you know if you have something you know like you want to become a politician and you want to come on here
59:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not closed off.
59:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not completely closed off.
59:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
59:43
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have a new movie, you want to promote, you know, whatever that looks like, you know, feel free to always reach out.
59:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I have some really cool African American guests that are coming on very soon as well.
59:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I just wanted to be more open, you know, get some more
1:00:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I've cousins who are happy to me is half of Salvadoran, and they grew up all the time.
1:00:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we all grew up in the hood together in LA, and I talked to them about coming on and talking about their experience about being part of it, you know, happy to me, and, you know, yeah, so yeah, I just want to open it up more now that, that, uh, yeah.
1:00:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So they need that.
1:00:24
[SPEAKER_00]: We absolutely need that.
1:00:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God.
1:00:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We need it now more than ever, right?
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we do.
1:00:29
[SPEAKER_00]: We do.
1:00:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And and since we need it now more than ever, they're going to be people now more than ever being like, stop complaining and stop warning.
1:00:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So we got to deal with that too, but like, you know, we know, we know our power.
1:00:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:00:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:00:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Ryan, thanks again.
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
1:00:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy New Year.
1:00:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy Chinese New Year.
1:00:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Chinese New Year.
1:00:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we can't say about it.
1:00:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy dead.
1:00:52
[SPEAKER_02]: All of it.
1:00:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand because I have Chinese blood in me and my kids or have my kids or have Taiwanese.
1:00:57
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way.
1:00:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, nice.
1:00:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:00:59
[SPEAKER_02]: The mom, the mom is from Taiwan.
1:01:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
1:01:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll talk soon.
1:01:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:01:06
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
1:01:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks.
1:01:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynne.
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynne, Catherine Wynne, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie and Crystal Tran.
1:01:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at the Vietnamese podcast.