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168. Why Wokeness Matters Finale · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:10
I found my freedom in you. I found a toy I can't lose, and
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thank God it's true. You wrapped your arms around me
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and heaven broke through. From the moment she found me.
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I found. Welcome to the Four Freedom
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Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the
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freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with
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everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, James
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Seyfried and Brett Marks. Welcome back to the Four Freedom
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Podcast. Thank you for joining us today
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as it is, but right before Easter, right before
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Resurrection Day. Hope everybody has a good Easter
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at their church. And I would like to take a quick
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survey. James, I, I'm going to tell you
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what my favorite Easter candy is and you tell me what your
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favorite is. I would have to say at the top
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of the list it's almost a tie between Peeps.
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I love Peeps and the Cadbury eggs, but if as much as I love
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the Peeps, if I had to make a choice I would say probably
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Cadbury eggs are my favorite Easter candy.
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What about you? If I'm walking down the Walmart
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aisle and I see a display of Easter candy out when I pass by
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the Peeps, they're going to be tempting.
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I love me some Peeps passed by the Cadbury.
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Not a big Cadbury fan. Allison, my wife, she loves the
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Cadbury eggs. But when I see the bag of Reesey
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PC eggs, the Reesey cup eggs, there's just the amount of
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peanut butter to chocolate ratio in the eggs versus the original
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cups. They're better.
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I don't know if it's because they're more fresh and they make
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them when they're right there. Like, you know, they're making
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them in January and they're out in in March and April for Easter
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and who knows how long the recent cups have been sitting
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there. I don't know what it is, but
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there's something about a Reese cup egg that is just delightful.
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And when I see them, I just, we were packing candy the other day
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and one of the ladies brought them in and I scarf down just a
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handful of them, you know, in a matter of seconds did have to
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take you to the black wrapper. All the Reese cups.
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And I like Reese cups. Not a huge Reese cup fan.
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I'm a, I'm an M&M fan all through and through.
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Like you give me a bag of M&M's, I will eat my weight in M&M's.
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But there is just something about a Reese Cup Easter egg
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that is just amazing. Now growing up, did y'all do the
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Easter Bunny? No, we didn't do Easter Bunny.
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We didn't do any of that. You know, we're, we're hardcore
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IB man. We didn't, we, we barely
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celebrated Santa Claus. You know, it was so Easter Bunny
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was not and I I don't do Easter Bunny now either, so.
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Well, I did growing up, personally.
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I mean, I woke up Sunday morning.
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Went to the front. Door saw the Easter basket there
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had the chocolate Bunny with all the chocolate and stuff.
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I mean, we did it when our kids were me and Emily did it when
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our kids were younger, you know, but it was still a good time,
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man. I, I, you know, I turned out all
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right. But man, the Easter, the Easter
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candy is just some of the best, best candy on the world.
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And the best thing is to get it on discount is like the Monday
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after Easter, you go stock up. Big time.
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What's what's your we're coming? This is coming out Thursday
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before Easter. What's your Easter plans for the
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weekend? What do y'all have got going on
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for the community? Are y'all doing any outreach any
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any Easter egg hunts, anything like that?
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Well, the Sunday before Easter, we are, you know, we're passing
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out a door knock. We're putting door hangers
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throughout the community around our church.
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That would have already been done when this episode airs.
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And for church, our plans for Easter are to have, we already
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usually have church at 10 AM on Easter.
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That's an hour early for us. It's usually 11.
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Well, this year we're kicking it up and even extra hour from
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that. So we're going to have
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breakfast. We're going to have breakfast at
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the church at 7:30 and then we're going to have our Sunday
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morning Easter service at 9. Now what I'm really excited
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about this Sunday is we're starting a children's church.
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So what will happen is the beginning of the service.
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We'll have the kids come down to the front.
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I'm going to give them a 5 little Easter, 5 minute Easter
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lesson and then send them over next door for Easter activities
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and an egg hunt while we do the Easter service in church.
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And I'm hoping that continues because I've always, I think a
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church children's church would do good in our church and I'm
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glad to get an opportunity to start it.
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I don't mind doing a little 5 minute thing with the kids
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upfront. Don't mind that at all.
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So if we can keep this going, I'd like to keep it going as far
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as it's like my family, I don't know.
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We might go to some, you know, usually church members, family
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invites us to eat. We're getting on so early.
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I might have time to go back home.
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My family lives two hours away. So we might have time to go back
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home and, and eat Easter dinner. But we, as far as we, we
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personally don't have any plans yet.
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What about y'all? If you were a good Baptist, you
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in two hours early you'd go find another service to be at.
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They were a later service. I mean, come on now.
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And then that night you wouldn't be hanging out with your family.
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You'd be sitting there in a worship service at a Life be
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church. You'd be having Easter Sunday
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night service and learn about Jesus again.
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Come on now, what kind of what kind of Baptist are you?
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Hey, if I was a real tie wearing, white dress shirt
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wearing, independent fundamental Baptist preaching, send hate and
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devil stomping Baptist, I'd get up at 5:00 AM and find me a
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sunrise service too. Brother, I'll be at one of those
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because that's what we've got planned.
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We've got so Saturday will be our big Easter Bach.
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We've been commute. We've been advertising that
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right now at the when this recording comes out, we're
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actually on vacation with our family.
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We're in Stone Mountain, GA, hanging out with just the kids
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and getting away. We've been a while since we've
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done that and so we're taking a couple of days to get away.
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This Saturday we'll be having our community Easter bash, and
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so we've going to have food and prizes and Easter egg hunt.
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A couple thousand eggs we're going to have out there divided
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up in different ages. We're going to have different
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stations the kids can go to and do crafts or do games and earn
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prizes. A little minute to win a game,
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just a lot of fun. I get to give the gospel out,
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talk about what Jesus did for us and the reason why we're
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celebrating Easter. And then Sunday morning.
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Very tradition here. Been been tradition for as long
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as I know. Far as the church has told me,
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when the sun comes up, they do a sunrise service in the
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graveyard. And so we go to the back of the
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graveyard. The sun comes up behind me and
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so I face the crowd. They're staring at the sun, and
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they want to be out there when the sun comes up.
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Well, the problem with that is, Brett, Easter falls a little
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later this year. We're near the end of April, and
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with time change and the April change of how that works,
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sunrise here in North Carolina on Easter Sunday is 6:30 AM.
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So I've got to be up and ready and here at the church 630 for
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the sunrise service, we try to do that.
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We do a couple of songs. I give a little 15 minute speech
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this year that is going to replace our Sunday school.
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And so we're going to do Sunday school as our sunrise service,
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breakfast at 7:00 and then the main service at 8:00.
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And then, you know, we'll get done with worship about 83845
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and then I've got like 3 hours to preach because, you know, I
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was told years ago when I got here that I need to be done by
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12. And so that gives me three, 3
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1/2 hours to preach really hard on Easter Sunday.
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So really looking forward to that and excited about just
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digging into the word and, and let them have it, you know?
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Sounds good brother. Sounds like a a logical plan to
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me. Yeah, I've been telling our
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church. I said be ready, be ready.
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When I first got here, one of our chairman of deacons, he
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grabbed me and said, brother, I love it.
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You're preaching good, just don't go over 12:00.
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And so when we move the service to 8, I mean, he's giving me
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permission to go longer. So I love it.
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That's. Right, that's how you're
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supposed to look at that. Yes, we're we've got some things
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coming up here pretty soon. I think one of the first things
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we got coming up is, is Dallas. We've got Dallas coming up in
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June and we're going to be at Dallas at the Southern Baptist
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Convention. And we want to invite you.
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If you go to a Southern Baptist church and you're going to be in
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Dallas or you're around Dallas, send us a message.
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Send us an instant message, Texas.
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Let us know you're going to be there.
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If we can meet up, we can meet up and we're going to be both of
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us, me and James and Dallas. We got our our house rented and
9:40
our tickets paid for and we are ready to go and Four Freedom in
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Dallas. Love it.
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I can't wait. It's been a great time.
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We've got our house is going to be awesome.
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We're going to hang out again. I'm more excited, I think about
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hanging out together again in that house like we did last year
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and just been able to, you know, hang out, get to know each
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other, enjoy some wonderful time of fellowship with our families.
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It is a great, great time. And then the convention itself
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is a refreshing time here in the Pastors Conference and getting
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to see guys that that I don't only get to see once a year hang
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out and, and really be encouraged.
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It's a great time to see what it what the convention does and
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what it's for. And then we've got Israel man's
10:26
right around the corner as well. Our first deposit, the first
10:30
initial deposit deadline is coming up in June.
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And so we would love for you to go to the Holy Land for freedom
10:37
in the Holy Land. And it would be a great time for
10:40
you to join us to be a part of that.
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And all of our information is on the website.
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It's also on social media. You can go to and look at it.
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And we would love for you to go if you've ever wanted to go, if
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you ever want to be a part of Israel and see in the Holy Land,
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It's going to be a wonderful time led by two amazing guys,
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the redhead duo that's going to be there.
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And you're not, you're not going to want to miss it.
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It's going to be a wonderful time, a wonderful experience.
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And we hope you enjoy you. You join us so that you can
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enjoy. Well, we got to experience just
11:11
a couple years ago and get to experience again here in just a
11:15
couple of months. Absolutely.
11:18
And don't forget about the Full Freedom Podcast and the Cigar
11:22
Company. Now, let me tell you something
11:23
about James. James is not a cigar guy.
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I had to twist his arm to to get him to do this.
11:32
I had to almost threaten him. But now that he's, he's agreed
11:36
to to go in this venture with me, he's happy that he did.
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And so we've got, we've got man, we've got some plans, don't we,
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James? We've got some things, some new
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products coming together, some new lines coming on on the in
11:52
through the cigar company and some boxes we're going to put
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together that I don't know if we're keeping that a surprise
11:58
till later, but I'm still excited about what we got going
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on. Yeah, really excited about that.
12:03
And we've been partnering and talking with a couple of
12:06
different people, some church planners, some local businesses
12:09
to be able to support missionaries in Nicaragua, to be
12:13
able to help support different things through the company that
12:16
we've got with the cigar company.
12:18
Just finding avenues and ways to give back and give to some of
12:23
those ones that are struggling with some of the church planners
12:25
that are there. And so as we get closer to that,
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I think the end of the summer, we'll be unveiling a couple of
12:30
special items for you to purchase and be a part of.
12:34
And that's a be on the lookout for those things.
12:37
But yeah, it's been great. Awesome.
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All right, Well, I think that's all the announcements that we
12:43
have. It's about time to get to the
12:44
episode, ain't it? Let's do it.
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Here we go. We cannot truly worship.
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God while we stay. Silent on injustice in all kinds
13:04
of areas. And I know as a white pastor I
13:07
have blind spots, so I am part of the problem.
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James Paul elected to unhitch the Christian faith.
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From their Jewish. Scriptures and my friends.
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We must as well. White people fear black men.
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That's not fair. But it's true.
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Jesus repents of his racism and extends healing to this woman's
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daughter. I love this story because it's a
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reminder that Jesus is human. He had prejudices and bias and
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when confronted with it, he was willing to do his.
13:48
Work. I believe in the non binary God
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whose pronouns are plural. I believe in Jesus Christ, their
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child who wore a fabulous tunic and had two dads and saw
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everyone as a sibling child of God.
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I believe in the rainbow spirit who shatters our image of 1
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white light and refracts it into a rainbow of gorgeous diversity.
14:20
I believe in the Church of everyday Saints, as numerous
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creative and resilient as patches on the 8th quilt, whose
14:30
feet are grounded in mud and whose eyes gaze at the stars and
14:35
wonder. I believe in the calling to each
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of us that love is love is love. So beloved, let us love.
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I believe glorious God help my unbelief.
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Amen. This woke self loathing.
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And we will never let the woke left take it away.
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It's because they're putting woke ideology.
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To a woke mob that can't even tell you what a woman is.
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In this season of the Four Freedom Podcast, we want to
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bring to you some enlightening topics that deal with the
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wokeness of the church. We want to bring to light some
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issues that are often overlooked, and we hope that
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it'll be a blessing to you in your listening experience.
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Hey, hi. Hi, everybody.
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OK, I want to tell you a story today.
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A few years ago while I was in Idaho, I said across from a
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young man, I'm not going to mention his name today.
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This is a true story. He had grown up in church.
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He knew the songs that we would sing in the youth group.
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He had memorized all the verses, and by all appearances, he was
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what you would call a good Christian kid.
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He'd even felt a call to ministry.
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But something that had shifted in his life, I could see it in
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his eyes. They didn't hold the same fire
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that I remembered. When he was younger.
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He was quieter. He was more reserved.
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And when he spoke, he he was sharp, focused and thoughtful.
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He began to tell me how things had changed.
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It had started in college. He had professors who were kind
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and thoughtful and deeply affirming.
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They challenged him through question what he believed not
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with hostility but with subtlety.
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They planted seeds of doubt cloaked in compassion.
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They asked questions like do you really believe in a loving God
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who would condemn someone for just who they love?
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They they ask questions like, aren't parts of the Bible
16:57
culturally outdated? Isn't your faith more about love
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than doctrine? You see, he didn't abandoned his
17:05
faith overnight, but over time the questions began to chip away
17:09
at his confidence. He stopped reading scripture
17:12
through the lens of truth and starting reading it through the
17:15
lens of cultural acceptance. What once was convictional
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became an embarrassment and what once was doctrine became nuance.
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What once was sin became authenticity.
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He told me that he now believed God affirms all identities, all
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lifestyles. He said that Jesus came to
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include, not exclude. He said that the church needed
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to catch up. And then he said something that
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I'll never forget. He looked at me and he said,
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Pastor James, I had to choose between being true to myself and
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being loyal to a church, and I chose myself.
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And I think Jesus would be proud of that.
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In that moment, my heart sank, not because I hated him or hated
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what was going on or what he was where he was at, but not even
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because I was angry, but because I realized something far more
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tragic than a prodigal son walking away.
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We were watching, and we are watching right now.
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An entire generation reimagine Jesus in their own image.
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Wokeness, what the world calls compassion, was reshaping truth
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into something unrecognizable. And the scary part is, it felt
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good and it felt right. It sounded like love, but it
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wasn't the gospel. It was a gospel with no cross,
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no repentance, no holiness, only self affirming who you are and
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what you believe. And that's why today's episode
18:53
matters. And as we conclude this series
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of wokeness, it matters because stories like this young man are
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not rare like they were 8 or 10 years ago.
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For me, they're everywhere. They're in churches, they're in
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pulpits. They're in seminaries, they're
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in youth groups. And if we don't speak clearly,
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if we don't speak boldly, and if we don't speak lovingly about
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what is happening, we'll lose more than just doctrine.
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We'll lose souls. So stay with us, because today
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we're talking about why whatness matters and why the Church must
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wake up. Welcome back to the For Freedom
19:40
podcast as we discuss our faith, culture, and life through a
19:45
biblical worldview. As we look at Galatians 51 and
19:48
we see freedom to not be under the yoke of bondage, but under
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the yoke of freedom that Christ offers for us.
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Again, I'm James and as always, we're here with Brett and we are
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concluding our series of wokeness today.
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We are looking at an article here in just a little bit.
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But Brett, how are you doing today, my friend?
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Doing good. I'm looking forward to to this
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in particular because it's like everything we've been talking
20:16
about this season has been building to this like this is
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the, this is the, you know, the, the top of what we're talking
20:24
about. This is the the penultimate
20:27
point. This is why this discussion
20:31
matters. I think it's, it's really,
20:34
really important that we drive this last nail home in this
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series that we've been in for weeks now.
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And I'm I'm just looking forward to it.
20:45
And absolutely. Today we're going to be diving
20:47
into the topic. Simply put, we sort of started
20:50
the series off with the same title.
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Why does wokeness matter what? Why is it important?
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Why is this even something we're talking about?
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You see, this isn't just a trending term or political
21:01
label. It's an issue that is deeply
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impacting the church. Today we're going to look at a
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New York Times article called Coming out as an Evangelical
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Pastor. And we're going to talk through
21:13
some types or some some insights from Al Mohler.
21:17
He he broke this down a little bit on his podcast, The Briefing
21:21
a couple of months ago. And as we had already started
21:24
this topic, because we'd already started talking through this,
21:26
this issue came out the The New York Times had put this article
21:30
out in the middle of when we were talking through this.
21:33
And I said, Brett, I think this will be a time where we can
21:36
incorporate the two thoughts here, the The New York Times
21:39
article, but also some of Doctor Mohler and Joe Rigney and some
21:42
other guys who have done some, some work on this and and bring
21:46
the light some things that are going on.
21:49
You know, we talked, this is the Four Freedom podcast and we
21:53
talked about the freedom in Christ and we've covered a lot
21:59
of the legalism issue and how being freedom, being free in
22:06
Christ is coming out of that. But when the pit and when the
22:10
pendulum slit swings from legalism to antinomianism,
22:15
that's bondage as well. And we want to proclaim that
22:19
freedom is being in the middle, is being where Christ is.
22:23
And, and, and Doctor Mohler here, he offers a profound
22:26
critique of this of this article and his perspectives are going
22:31
to add to this conversation that me and you are having.
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Yep, indeed, This is why we are diving in this topic and and why
22:39
it matters. Why are so many embracing
22:42
wokeness? Why are so many turning away
22:45
from what they've been taught and what the Bible says is true
22:49
and why? What is what the Bible says
22:51
about standing firm in truth as we looked about last week with
22:55
loving with truth? And so as we get started with
22:58
this, I think it will be good for us to sort of give an
23:01
overview of this New York Times article.
23:04
We'll leak this article in our show notes as well.
23:06
But Brett, can you give us a summarization of this article?
23:11
And we'll sort of talk through this for just a moment.
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Sure. OK, so this article tells a
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story of an evangelical pastor who has come out as a part of
23:22
the LGBTQ community, OK and and and it frames his journey as one
23:27
of of liberation, moving away from what he sees as the
23:32
oppression of traditional Christian doctrine.
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OK. And the article celebrates his
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decision, but it actually paints those who hold the biblical
23:43
teaching. It paints them as outdated and
23:46
harmful and ancient and paints them in in a negative light.
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Yeah, this is exactly what we've been seeing more and more of
23:56
people reshaping Christianity to fit their personal feelings
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rather than submitting to the word of God.
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And oftentimes this is what we want to do, right?
24:06
We want to make God our God and put God in our box and say this
24:11
is what I want you to be. And God says, no, no, no, you've
24:14
got to change your life to fit what I have for you, right?
24:19
Because Jesus Jesus, the way he's written in the Bible
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offends people and so they want to change that Jesus.
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But the Jesus of that same Bible said those who are not offended
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in in me are blessed. OK, this article, it highlights
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how this pastor's theology has changed over time.
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You know, it doesn't happen overnight.
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You don't fall in the pit overnight.
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It's slow, it's gradual, and it changes over time, mainly due to
24:46
his personal relationships. His emotions and experiences
24:51
begin to dictate his beliefs, rather than scripture, which
24:55
should dictate his beliefs. Yeah, it really goes through.
24:59
And the reason why we know this is because the article lays out
25:02
that he actually documented through a journal of when his
25:06
son came out of the homosexual and had joined the LGBTQ
25:10
community and how his his soul was crushed by it at first.
25:14
But as he went through this journey with his son, he
25:18
realized that he was in error and he needed to realign what he
25:23
had been taught and told because of what his son was doing.
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And, and we can see lots of different things and, and we're
25:30
not going to rehash all of it, but that that's the key issue.
25:33
Culture says that your feelings determine truth, but scripture
25:38
tells us something completely different.
25:39
The Jeremiah 17 nine says that the heart is deceitful above all
25:45
things. If we allow feelings to redefine
25:48
doctrine, we're no longer following Christ, We're
25:51
following ourselves. I like how John Calvin, I'm not
25:55
a Calvinist by any means, but John Calvin put it like this.
25:58
He said that our hearts, and he read this verse Jeremiah 17/9.
26:03
The heart is deceitful above all things.
26:04
He says that our heart is an idol factory, that our heart
26:08
continually puts idols in front of us that we're going to
26:12
worship and it's what we put in. Do we allow to be put out as
26:16
idols? If we put in the word of God, in
26:18
the word of God is going to be what leads us.
26:20
If we're putting in sin and degradation and wokeness and
26:24
culture, then that is what's going to come out as the idols
26:27
that we worship. Exactly.
26:30
And you know, Doctor Moeller, he describes the situation as
26:34
theological collapse. OK, he points out, this isn't
26:38
just about one pastor's personal journey.
26:42
It's part of a larger movement of churches compromising on
26:46
biblical authority. And James, we have got to open
26:50
our eyes to this and not keep our heads in the sand and see
26:54
that churches are are losing ground today, You know, and if
26:59
you know, we need to go out if we're going to go out, go out
27:02
kicking and screaming against against this movement that
27:06
that's happening. Yeah, exactly.
27:08
Molar warns us that once a church starts redefining sin to
27:14
make it more palatable, it inevitably shows up the 9 core
27:18
Christian doctrines. We see this over and over again.
27:21
The issue isn't just the LGBTQ affirming an affirmation, it's
27:26
the rejection of biblical authority.
27:28
It's when we begin to change the word of the God to fit our own
27:35
cultural norms that we begin to see this rejection of the Bible.
27:40
You know, this reminds me of a story.
27:42
I was in the gym the other day and the local pastor, the First
27:47
Baptist Church, Steven, we might even have on the podcast one
27:52
day. He's a great guy.
27:53
But we were in the gym together and he was listening and working
27:57
out and lifting dumbbells. And I came over to him and I
28:01
tapped him on the shoulder. He put his dumbbells down,
28:04
pulled his earphones out of his ear.
28:06
And I said, you heroes on TV. And he turned around and look,
28:11
and there was Steven Furtick up there on TV.
28:13
And he just laughed. He thought it was funny.
28:15
But then he told me, you know, he used to be straight as an
28:18
arrow. He used to be, you know, preach
28:20
the word of God down the line. But what changed for him as he
28:24
went to a conference where Steven was, where Furtick was,
28:29
was, was preaching and he spent the whole conference talking
28:33
about how we should accept LGBTQ and we're not accepting of them
28:37
enough. And, you know, talking about
28:40
that kind of stuff. And he said, excuse me.
28:42
He said that if he hadn't have been there in somebody else's
28:46
car, he he would have left. And but this is the kind of
28:50
stuff that that we have to deal with, you know, and what you
28:53
talked about earlier, that's a critical distinction, OK, this,
28:57
this isn't about 1 issue. It's about whether Scripture is
29:01
truly God's word or is it just a suggestion?
29:06
You know, you can, well, you can listen to it.
29:08
You cannot, you know, Is it a suggestion that we can edit or
29:13
change to fit the times that we live in?
29:16
Yeah, and Molar, what he did was he took this whole thought as we
29:20
were talking through it and he put it into this shift where it
29:24
often begins with an emotional appeal.
29:27
Something happens emotionally, something happens in a, in a
29:31
struggle or a sense of dependence that I need to
29:35
change. And and we need to be more
29:36
compassionate. We need to be which don't get me
29:41
wrong, compassion is, is true. Jesus was have compassion on
29:45
those. It's a great thing.
29:46
But oftentimes we must take affirmation for love.
29:49
When we talked about that last week in our episode of loving
29:52
without how to love without compromise, we talked through
29:56
that extensively. So if you didn't listen, go back
29:58
and listen to that so you sort of know the context and we're
30:02
going to get to this thought of empathy here in just a moment
30:06
and talk through what this word empathy means.
30:09
But oftentimes what happens is, is we, we mix these things up
30:13
and, and when we are emotional beings, we're created emotional
30:18
and, and this is the struggle that we begin to have, right?
30:22
Exactly. See, real love tells the truth.
30:26
You know, that was the point of our episode.
30:28
If if a doctor knows the cancer has patient that has.
30:32
If a doctor knows a patient has cancer but doesn't tell them
30:36
about it 'cause it might hurt their feelings, that's not love.
30:40
That's negligence. And the same aspires, the same
30:44
applies spiritually as well, Yeah.
30:47
So, so we're going to begin talking about this sin of
30:51
misplaced empathy and what this really means.
30:55
We've actually, I'm on a couple of different chat groups and
30:58
John had actually put this in one of our chat groups today.
31:01
Of of is empathy sin? Is that classified as sin?
31:05
How do we talk through this? And Brett, why don't you give us
31:09
a breakdown? What does it mean by when we say
31:12
the sin of misplaced empathy? OK, so it's when empathy leads
31:18
us to compromise truth, OK? We should absolutely care for
31:23
people and show compassion. We're not saying don't do that,
31:27
OK? But it's when empathy causes us
31:30
to redefine sin or excuse rebellion against God, it
31:35
becomes dangerous. Like I've heard that before.
31:38
People say that that empathy is wrong.
31:42
And I'm thinking, no, you're supposed to have empathy.
31:44
But it becomes an issue when it leads you to do something wrong,
31:48
when it leads you to sin. Yeah, and empathy is a new word.
31:52
This is something that was recently made-up in the 21st
31:55
century. This has not been a word in our
31:57
vocabulary. We've had a word for sympathy.
32:01
We have a word for empathizing and and being there for them.
32:04
But the word empathy has come out of that where it is we are
32:09
literally feeling the pain that someone else is.
32:11
We're putting ourselves in their shoes and we can do that to an
32:15
extent, but what happens is is we can empathize with someone to
32:19
the point where we actually begin to sin in that because we
32:23
are, we are falsely in our mind putting ourselves there.
32:28
Jesus said this. He said that we should be full
32:31
of compassion. He was full of compassion, but
32:34
he said to them, go and sin no more.
32:38
And empathy celebrates their sin, but the gospel and biblical
32:43
love calls them to repent and sin no more.
32:47
So there's a difference between loving someone and caring for
32:50
someone and telling them that they're wrong, and then loving
32:54
and caring for someone and accepting them and saying, you
32:56
know what, you're, you're fine with the way you are.
32:59
There's no reason for you to change God.
33:01
God made you like this. This is what empathy.
33:03
This is where the empathy movement comes out of.
33:07
Exactly. And listen, we've seen movements
33:09
like this before. You know, whether it was the
33:12
social gospel movement, theological liberalism or the
33:16
emergent church, each one followed the same pattern, try
33:21
to make Christianity more acceptable to the culture and in
33:25
the process abandoned core doctrines.
33:27
That's what like our our open for this series.
33:31
It's got Andy Stanley in there saying unhit from the Old
33:34
Testament. That's what he's all about, that
33:37
we have to take Christianity because we're ashamed of it,
33:41
because it's so ancient. We have to dress it up, cut off
33:44
all the excess, put bows on it to make it more palatable for,
33:48
you know, modern tummies. And that's just that's not what
33:52
the gospel is. Yeah.
33:55
And Brett, what what happened to those movements?
33:58
They led to an immediate burst of, of growth and then it led to
34:04
decline and then it led to evaporation.
34:08
Churches that embrace progressive theology, they lose
34:12
members, they lose influence because they're not, they're not
34:16
standing on the word of God. And God the word is what builds
34:19
a church. If you want a social club, go
34:22
join a Golf Club. If you want someone to make you
34:24
feel good, go to a massage therapist.
34:27
If you're wanting someone, go, go to a counselor that's going
34:30
to help you. But if you're wanting to learn
34:32
God's Word, if you want to grow, go to where the Bible's been
34:36
preached, It's not going to be comfortable.
34:38
As I said this past week and when my counseling sessions,
34:41
iron sharpens iron. And in that process, it is a
34:44
difficult thing. There's sparks, there's pain,
34:47
there's hurt that goes on, but in the end, it comes out sharper
34:52
and better than it was before. And that's what the Word of the
34:54
Lord does to us. It sharpens us to the point
34:57
where we are closer and better. Right.
35:01
I mean, look at denominations that have embraced progressive
35:03
theology. The Episcopal Church, United
35:06
Methodist Church, the PCUSA. They're shrinking rapidly.
35:11
Why? Because a compromised gospel has
35:14
no power. Yeah.
35:16
Exactly the the church that preaches what people want to
35:20
hear instead of what they need to hear is what I just said.
35:23
A social club with a religious decorations on the wall.
35:28
I mean, look at we didn't, yeah, we did mention the United
35:31
Methodist Church, what they just went through with the the Global
35:35
Methodist Church coming out of it, which is the more
35:38
conservative side in the the United Methodist Church, OK with
35:42
having LGBTQ pastors, women as pastors.
35:46
I mean, just the continuation of, of really smacking the Lord
35:51
in the face by saying your word doesn't matter.
35:54
We're going to do church. However we want to do church is
35:57
really how I see this issue. And it is, it is it is LED
36:03
people to hell feeling good. And that's the hard part.
36:07
Right. Exactly.
36:08
And the Methodist Church, they're, they're suffering like
36:11
they're doing good right now because I know we have a bunch
36:14
of, and you probably have the same issue.
36:16
We have a bunch of Methodist churches around us that have,
36:20
you know, bought, had to buy their property back from the
36:25
United Methodist. And what's going on is they're
36:29
having the influx of cash because all these conservative
36:33
churches are, you know, buying the churches back.
36:35
But that's not going to last forever.
36:38
But, you know, wokeness is not just a political issue, it's a
36:42
theological issue. It replaces biblical justice
36:46
with social justice and repentance with affirmation.
36:50
Absolutely. Michael Knowles.
36:52
I listen to him a lot. He has a book out called
36:55
Speechless, Controlling Word, Controlling Minds and anyone's
37:00
listening. There's a Ding on the right
37:01
there. Not endorsing the book or
37:03
anything, but what he talks about is how we have words and
37:07
we replace the definition of those words with whatever we
37:10
feel comfortable right now. The, the, the, the lingo of
37:13
teenagers. I, I've been out of the youth
37:15
pastor work for a year and a half now and I feel like I'm 10
37:19
years behind on language. I mean, they're dropping my my
37:23
kids are dropping words and I'm like, what are you talking
37:25
about? You don't even your words aren't
37:27
even making sense, but they know what they mean because they've
37:30
got this new phraseology of words that have been redefined,
37:35
right? Skibity means these these words
37:39
mean things and we're trying to figure them out as we go, but
37:42
they've redefined them in their mind.
37:43
And this is what happens is love now means approval.
37:48
We've we've redefined love as approval, just as now means
37:51
retribution. If you're wanting to get
37:54
justice, you've got to retaliate.
37:55
You've got to make sure someone gets paid back.
37:58
Sin now becomes a lived experience and the gospel begins
38:03
to get lost in this process because you can't really replace
38:07
or redefine the gospel. And so we just try to water it
38:10
down as much as we can by changing the terminologies that
38:14
we use. And this is what happens in this
38:17
this environment is we redefine these terms and we change what
38:20
the words mean to fit our own narrative.
38:24
So Brett, how do we begin to fight back?
38:27
How do we begin as the church sees woke, this coming in, as
38:31
it's creeping in like a, a weed of vine that's beginning to wrap
38:35
around the fruit, beginning to invade the the plants that are
38:39
around. How do we fight back?
38:40
What are what are the, the things that we can do to keep
38:44
God's church holy and to be appropriate in our messaging as
38:49
we preach and as we teach and as we do these things?
38:53
I think the first thing we need is discernment.
38:56
I think every Christian should test everything against
38:59
Scripture. That's why we're going through
39:01
this idea of wokeness and talking through this, because if
39:05
if we don't test it, if we don't try it to Scripture, then we're
39:09
being just as unfaithful as the ones that are on the other side
39:12
of this. We have to take what we're
39:14
hearing and say, what does Scripture say and compare it
39:17
with the Bible's teaching of the church.
39:21
Exactly. We need to be like those
39:22
Bereans. Second, pastors need to preach
39:26
the full counsel of God. If you're afraid to preach truth
39:30
because it might offend, then you're not a pastor, you're
39:34
motivational speaker. Part of the reason why I don't
39:38
always preach verse by verse through the whole year, but
39:41
there are times during the year where I take a book of the Bible
39:46
and I start at the beginning and I preach all the way at the end.
39:49
And if the if it hits on the subject, I preach on that
39:52
subject. Just because, you know, that's
39:55
the whole council of God. We need to, we need to cover
39:58
everything, not shy away from stuff just because it's
40:03
controversial. Like our buddy Osteen.
40:06
Right. Yeah, I was one of the guys in
40:09
my church got me on a show podcast and I've enjoyed
40:14
listening to it. It's a it's a it's a political
40:16
podcast, but it's they've actually just redefined to
40:19
religious and spirituality, even though they're talking about
40:21
politics. And he made this statement the
40:24
other day. He said someone asked him why
40:27
are there so many people that are calling in and asking
40:31
questions about theology to your show?
40:35
And he said, I believe because pastors are too afraid to stand
40:41
up and speak the truth and they're too afraid to go and ask
40:44
their pastor these questions. And so they're asking me on my
40:47
show. And I thought, as you said, that
40:50
that's what's going on. Our culture.
40:52
Pastors are not standing up and not preaching the truth and not
40:54
preaching the full council of the gospel.
40:57
And what is happening is we are just seeing a church that is a
41:01
hollowed out. And so we've got to be people
41:04
who are preaching the full council.
41:06
I think the third thing is we need parents who are going to
41:09
stand up and disciple their children.
41:11
We need parents who are going to disciple them in a way that
41:15
Christ discipled his disciples. If we don't teach them biblical
41:18
truth, someone will teach them something.
41:22
And the culture says that's the kid that I want to bring in and
41:26
teach them the lies, teach them the the abomination.
41:29
And, and began, as I said in that opening story with that
41:32
young guy in Idaho, where we can come in and we can change and we
41:36
can teach them a little bit of truth and a whole lot of lie,
41:41
right. What did, what did Satan do in
41:42
the garden? I go to this illustration often.
41:45
He came in with Eve and he said, did God really say that?
41:49
God really is He hiding things from you?
41:52
If you eat of this fruit, you're going to be like him.
41:55
That's why he doesn't want you to eat of it.
41:56
And, and all of a sudden he gave just enough truth and just
42:00
enough lie to cause them to doubt and cause them to
42:03
question. And then we see the recourse of
42:05
what happens from that. But if we as parents are
42:08
discipling our kids and teaching and training them up in the way
42:11
of the Lord, and then every single day of our life training
42:15
them in that way, then I believe that we will see a generation
42:19
turned around for the sake of the gospel.
42:22
It's so easy when parents that go to church, they get so used
42:26
to having, oh, well, my kids go to church, they get it there and
42:30
they, they really don't realize how important it is for the
42:34
parents at home to actively disciple their children.
42:38
You need to read the Bible with your kids.
42:40
You need to pray for your kids. You need to teach your kids how
42:43
to pray. You know, you need to take your
42:45
kids out and visit somebody in the community.
42:48
You know, these are things that you need to do, and 4th churches
42:52
must engage in apologetics. We need to show people how woke
42:56
ideology distorts biblical concepts.
43:00
You know what's going on in our culture and our society.
43:04
We need to take the word of God and say, hey, look, this is the
43:08
reason why that's wrong. This is the reason why the LGBTQ
43:12
crowd is wrong. It's the reason why abortion is
43:17
wrong. It's the reason why you can't
43:19
listen to your own heart. And who is the best apologist in
43:23
the Bible? That was Jesus.
43:25
Every time Jesus turned around, he asked the Pharisees, have you
43:29
not read? Do you not know what your
43:32
scripture says? He said the devil three times.
43:35
It is written, it is written, it is written.
43:38
And Jesus constantly went back to that book to defend his
43:42
position because that's where you know his foundation was.
43:46
And we need to be no different. We need to give an answer for
43:50
the the, the faith that we proclaim and that we we believe
43:55
in. We don't need to just as pastors
43:58
get up and preach fluff to people or seek out pastors that
44:04
preach fluff as we need pastors who are going to equip us, give
44:09
us like tell us the modern questions that are being asked
44:13
today. Tell us how to answer them.
44:16
Give us the passages of Scripture that we need in order
44:20
to, you know, in order to defend our position.
44:25
Somebody comes up to us and says, oh, I thought your
44:27
religion thought you supposed to love people.
44:30
How come you don't love us? Well, you need to be able to
44:33
answer that, you know, you, you need to be able to, to give them
44:37
an answer. And that's something where we're
44:39
sorely lacking in the, in the vein of apologetics.
44:43
I would suggest just get on YouTube and go watch some
44:48
apologies, you know, in addition to getting at your church, but
44:53
you know, go to YouTube and turn on Frank Turek, go to YouTube
44:57
and turn on Cliff and Stewart connectedly, you know, and just
45:01
listen to him and and you listen to him enough that stuff will
45:05
that stuff will sink in. But then you also need to read
45:08
for yourself. This is an active thing.
45:10
It's not something where we just sit and listen.
45:13
It's it's where we go to church to get bows to put in our
45:17
quivers, the use against the devil later.
45:20
That's so good, Brett. I'm so glad you said that
45:23
because I think apologetics is something that is really missing
45:26
in our church. But as Barna put it out in a
45:30
recent poll, the the latest 2 generations, the Gen.
45:34
X and the Gen. Z or the Millennial or whatever,
45:37
Gen. X, Gen.
45:38
Z, Alpha, the newest one, which is the the next one coming up,
45:43
They're the most seeking generation that we've had since
45:48
the Boomers. I think is what the part what
45:50
the poll said. They are asking more questions
45:53
about religion. They're asking more questions
45:56
about church and culture than any other generation in like 50
46:01
years. And we have the opportunity to
46:04
tell them truth because they're looking for truth.
46:08
They're looking for what is true and what is not true.
46:12
And so we have this awesome responsibility to teach and
46:15
train up and man with, with social media and, and the way
46:19
that the public square is right now with TikTok and Instagram,
46:23
Facebook reels and, and these simple little small tidbits of,
46:27
of truth that's out there. We can share truth through these
46:31
avenues where we can share a story, we can share an
46:34
opportunity in that short form, but then in these opportunities
46:38
for podcasts to share long form, drawn out conversations where
46:43
people are searching, people are looking and and we have the
46:47
opportunity to do that through apologetics and through teaching
46:51
the Bible and what it says. So Brett, what what are any
46:54
other final thoughts on this episode?
46:57
What miss, why it matters and how we can fight against it.
47:01
And again, Molar puts out some great things.
47:04
Joe Rigney's talked about the sin of empathy and this article
47:08
that we we sort of concluded with.
47:11
So stand firm. You know what Miss wants?
47:14
Conformity to the world. But Christianity calls us to
47:18
conform to Christ, and those two are not the same no matter what
47:24
the world says. Absolutely.
47:27
I appreciate that Brett, and I thank you for the the
47:31
conversation that we've had today and this through this
47:33
topic. Again, it's something that we
47:35
don't normally and we haven't traditionally talked about and
47:38
we may not talk about something like this in a for a very long
47:41
time. We felt like it was needed in
47:43
the culture today and where we're at with politics and and
47:47
and different cultures, you know, we can find freedom from
47:49
this. We can find freedom from
47:51
wokeness and we just need to have the tools to be put in our
47:54
quiver. As you said, you know, if you
47:57
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