Latest / Daily Influence / 644. Beyond the Numbers: Dr. Zuri Tau on Research, Justice, and the Humanity Behind Impact

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644. Beyond the Numbers: Dr. Zuri Tau on Research, Justice, and the Humanity Behind Impact · Daily Influence

• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Daily Influence, your daily dose of positive influence.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Brian Smith founder of IA Business Advisors and co-author of the Iain team series.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Each day we share stories and insights to help you find be and build your influence in a positive and responsible way.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Greg Clino, partner at IE Business Advisors, and co-host of Daily Influence.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Be sure to follow, subscribe, and share Daily Influence with someone who could use a little extra positivity today.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And make us part of your Daily routine, whether it's during your commute, on a walk, or an quiet moment just for you, because you're influenced matters.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Daily Influence, I'm Greg Kalino.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Today, I'm joined by Dr. Zuretau, founder and CEO of Social Insights, a pioneering organization, helping foundations, non-profits, and government agencies turn data into deeper understanding and measurable change.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: For over two decades, Zuri has worked at the intersection of research, justice, and healing.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Guiding groups like the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the Aspen Institute to move beyond intention and into true accountability.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Her work challenges us to connect, evaluation with empathy, and to transform systems by listening to the communities they serve.
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Zareez approach reminds us that influence isn't just about the ideas we share, it's about the outcomes we shape together.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Zaree, welcome to daily influence.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you Craig.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's such a pleasure to be here with you.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a, can you share a good about your background and what led you to where you are today, particularly what inspired your focus on combining research with justice and healing?
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is such a good question.
• 1:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I love how it's framed because it really is a interdisciplinary focus that I have shaped my life around.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it really started with my experience as a young person growing up in the church and the south.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Service and devotion were very early lessons that were part of my life and upbringing.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so when it was time to go to college, the simple mantra in my college decision making was, okay, I want to do something that lets me help people.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was very simple, eventually that translated into working on campus with college students going out and organizing them to do community service.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It early on, I saw that as an opportunity to work with folks who were just often ignored.
• 2:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we were working with folks who were, you know, under the poverty line, we were working with kids who were hospitalized.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And actually went out to prisons and we're doing drama performances and we had a group that wrapped and
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was just like a really beautiful way for me to bring my appreciation for the arts and serving people together.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that was probably my first experience of combining multiple aspects of life.
• 3:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so after college, I decided to get my masters in social work.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And living in the city of Atlanta, I was so blessed to start doing community organizing with folks who were really concerned about the way that our community had a lack of
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Community organizing across like race and class and difference.
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was organizing with the organization called blocks and we were just a group of very passionate young folks mother is black brown queer white young old folks who were just committed to working and we've worked around alternatives to policing and it was just like a beautiful opportunity for me to.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: See service not just as providing material goods.
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: but also of thinking about the material conditions and the social conditions of people's lives.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that experience changed the way I thought about the research that I was trained in in my master's program.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And at what I did go into traditional research work, I worked at a research firm for almost a decade.
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: the practice and the process of applying my research skills, but what I was getting from my work in community organizing was was really disconnected from that and I saw that gap and I wanted to fill that gap.
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to think about,
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: research in a context where I was asking questions about what is the benefit to community.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I'm going in and doing these research projects that often seemed like I was dropping in like, you know, on a parachute and then leaving with the data and never coming back, right?
• 5:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's those sorts of ways of being that I wanted to change and I started to really question my role and researchers and evaluators role of coming in with this premise that we could just be neutral observers, we just come in.
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're not impacted by what we see, we're just, you know, doing this neutral research work, which really is not possible, because we are all humans research is impacted by social conditions and it is impacted by what the researchers background and experience how that informs their work.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so those aspects of life over 20 years really.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: allowed me to bring those things together, research, justice, healing.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think a question I want to just leave with audience is, you know, what are you creating from what you value?
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, does your work and your life reflect those things that bring meaning to you?
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I am grateful that I can live that with my work at Social Insights Research and Laboratory Research.
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So important for everyone that really sit with and think about.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if the answer is it's not, I really think you should go out and find it, because it's so important.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: In Missouri, in the Iron Team series, we talk about how awareness drives
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you help organizations recognize when good intentions aren't translating into real results?
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what steps do you guide them to take next?
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I want to say I really love the series and I love the name too, because it made me stop when I first read it.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think from our organizational perspective,
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: What we want to do is really set up institutions to understand how to measure results in ways that go beyond counting and simple transactional metrics.
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's really where we start.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you understand how you and your team or your organization define success, that's really the first step.
• 8:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think prevent us from making a lot of mistakes in our work.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I our expertise is really helping to develop indicators of that success.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: So once you know what you want, then we come in and, and, well, one, help you figure out what you want if you don't know.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then to create measurable metrics to understand if you are getting closer to that or if you're not getting closer to that why aren't you getting closer to that and I'm sure this this sounds familiar to you because there's some synchronicity between the smart approach that you take right so it's similar and.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, of course, something is going to go wrong.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's inevitable with your humans, but with social insights, our approach is really that, if you prioritize having multiple voices in the process, decentering ourselves as experts, and you increase the likelihood that an organization's efforts will be more effective.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: because you've taken the time to really understand the assumptions and the concerns and goals that people hold at different levels of power and influence throughout the organization and who they're serving.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is so true.
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell us about a moment or experience where you've felt you made a positive impact on someone's life something that reminded you why this work matters on a human level?
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, you know, I think the first thing that comes to mind is the people who are doing that for me, I have incredible parents and bonus parents.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: who show up for me important to me.
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a beautiful community of friends, really full world friends, as well as some newer ones, right?
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: That over time have supported me in really challenging situations.
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm also a part of many communities and I made my social insights team, the liver tour research team, the folks who are in the trenches with me every day and doing this work and making sure that we're supporting organizations.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the first thing that came to mind, right?
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I am able to make a positive
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: there was a recent episode that one of the speakers mentioned how important it was to think about what we say and the power of our words.
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when I look back at my life, I do feel like there are
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: positivity and positive words and affirmations and to see people.
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that is, that is my gift.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can see people, I see what they're bringing to the world and also encourage them to see that in themselves because that sometimes is the challenge, right, is that other people see us and they see our potential and they see what we're capable of but we don't see it in ourselves.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is my gift to pull people along into that light and say, oh my god, I am amazing.
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can go back to school.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can do this project.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I can, you know, apply for this fellowship.
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, those are some examples.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Those are beautiful examples and that is so true.
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  [SPEAKER_02]: I actually remember that conversation at aired.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think ground early December and talking about how your words positive or negative the lasting impact on someone and it's really important to suit positive ones and I love how you share that and you did that.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for sharing that so beautiful.
• 12:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: It really causes ripples and net individuals life
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: exponentially by sharing that positivity and sometimes we get in the way of ourselves with our negative self-talk and having someone like you, people around you are lucky to have you around in their life because you add that positivity and you help overcome that negative self-talk.
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, yes, thank you.
• 13:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: that is so important.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: It really is, in your work, blends analytics and lived experience beautifully.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you help teams stay accountable to both the numbers and the stories behind them?
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know, I want to actually start with a question for you, Craig.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And the question is, what do you consider
• 13:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: a good episode of your podcasts.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: What makes it good?
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think what makes an episode good is the information that's being shared either from us or our guests get kind of positive influence on them, which then they can go and spread it to others.
• 13:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what makes it good.
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I'm hearing some things here, which is that,
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's influential, that it's shareable, and that it has meaning, and so these are, this is the first step that we take with our clients.
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the first thing that we want to know what, what does success look like to you, what is meaningful to you, and some of these things are really difficult to measure, right?
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's it's hard to measure when an episode like gives you full body chills right there there's there's currently we're not saying you know how many goosebumps that you feel on your arms right but you know you felt those goosebumps.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think what when it comes to accountability and.
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: blending numbers and accountability and the stories behind the numbers.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really important that we remember that there's more than meets BI.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's more than can be counted.
• 15:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: The stories are important.
• 15:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: The somatic nature of our experience with each other and with the work that we do is just as critical as metrics that we can put into a database.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: and you need both, you really need both to understand and to to improve how your organization or your project is impacting people that you need both of those types of data.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's really helpful.
• 15:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for sharing that.
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, are you using AI in your work?
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you are, how are you ensuring it enhances understanding
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, I think AI everybody is talking about it right now.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I love that you passed this question.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not using AI to do research or analysis, but.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Over the past year, two of my senior researchers Wang Guan and Melody Bucosa Dawkins have been leading an internal process into how AI could be used to support our business, how the team feels about it.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: What are the implications for our clients for the environment for our communities?
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: for our own critical thinking and expertise.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we are very much asking the questions and we're doing that in a way that honors our organizational culture, which is let's take the time to understand what people are thinking and what matters to people.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's something that every organization really should be doing.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: it's very easy to adopt AI quickly because the tools are so accessible.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the real work and the more important work is to understand how the entire team is feeling about it and how it might be a positive and what are also the things that may be negatives in your particular context.
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, does it create distance and, you know, how do we, how do we ensure that it enhances understanding and set of creating distance between data and people, I think AI can create a distance between us and our creativity.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it can create a closeness to the data because it increases understanding and accessibility, but simultaneously it can distance us from the joy of solving our own problems or learning community with other people.
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so it is really important for us to take our time and be intentional about these questions and using these new technologies.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Our books emphasize the role of self-awareness and reflection and leadership.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: What practices help you stay grounded and intentional while working in spaces that often face resistance to change?
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think what has become really important to me,
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: is this idea of coming close when things feel unpredictable and scary.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't know what to do and the world seems to be falling apart around us.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: My mantra right now is come close, come close,
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: together in order to stay grounded, right?
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: For me, who I need to pull together is those friends that I talked about, the team that I work with.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a mother of two, so it is spending time singing along to musicals, talking, foolishness, making cookies and gluten free brownies.
• 19:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: be grounded in such a challenging time and and I think from that place I'm able to make good leadership decisions and to use my influence wisely.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is so great.
• 19:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for sharing that.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Notice very what message or words of encouragement.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: We do like to share with our listeners who aspire to make a positive difference in their communities and lead with responsible influence.
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll leave a few words that have grounded me and centered me over time.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to encourage you to just try without being married to an outcome of perfection.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just try.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, because so often we get paralyzed by
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: how good we're supposed to be or measuring ourselves to something we saw on social media, or our colleague who has this or someone that we know that's doing so amazing or they seem to be doing so amazing.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're constantly comparing ourselves and sometimes it freezes us.
• 20:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't want to take the risk.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes we're holding so tightly
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's still something that's guaranteed so somehow we have to allow ourselves to take risks and just try, just try and often the people that I see that are happy.
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: There are the ones who have been willing to be a little bit uncomfortable going for what they're passionate about or what makes meaning for them or what is taking them out of a situation that is harmful or not ideal or that they've just outgrown.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: that is so true, Zary, you know, thank you for sharing your wisdom and perspective with us today.
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Your work reminds us that real influence is not measured only by outcomes, but by how those outcomes serve people in the communities over time.
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: You shown us that accountability when rooted in empathy becomes a force for transformation.
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Zary, if our listeners want to get in touch with you, what is the best way to do so?
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I would love for folks to follow our education arm on Instagram.
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's at Libertory Research, so that's our handle.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Please visit our website if you want to learn more about how we actually do this work in practice.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have case studies on our site www.soc Insights.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: dot com and we also have upcoming in the new year a masterclass that really breaks down how to do research in a way that
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: encourages equity that encourages us to release the lie that research is completely neutral and somehow we can divorce our humanity from data collection and analysis.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's also coming up in January.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So thanks so much for the opportunity to be here and I look forward to seeing you all there.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, thank you so much.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll put this information in the show notes.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I am so grateful for you for joining us and sharing your stories and advice today.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, take care Greg.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Due to, and to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to daily influence.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I hope today's conversation brought you insight and inspiration.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: If it's spoke with you, share it with someone who could use little positivity today.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And please take this conversation as an invitation to examine not just what you're doing, but why and how you're doing it.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Influence is most powerful when it's responsible, reflective, and rooted in action.
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Remember small actions, create big impact, keep showing up, leading, and growing one day to time.
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Until next time, stay inspired, and keep having a positive, responsible influence.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Bye-bye!