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Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 133 · Rugby Direct

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
0:12
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0:17
Speaker 1: Yet inside the game from every angle.
0:20
Speaker 2: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
0:24
Speaker 3: Welcome to Rugby Direct powered by four Klod Solutions, lifting
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Speaker 3: you and your business to a higher level.
0:30
Speaker 4: Well after a.
0:31
Speaker 3: Well earned week off, Elliott Smith, Liam Napier Week are
0:34
Speaker 3: back for another episode and Liam good to be back
0:38
Speaker 3: on the Rugby Direct horse. There has been a fair
0:40
Speaker 3: bit going on in the one week we've taken off.
0:43
Speaker 5: Podcasting has indeed, Elliott's and you haven't had a week off.
0:48
Speaker 5: You've been doing crazy hours a part of the Olympic Games,
0:52
Speaker 5: and we'll certainly touch on that. But great to be
0:54
Speaker 5: back and great to have the Rugby Championship on the horizon.
0:57
Speaker 5: Always fascinating tournaments and will be the case again this year.
1:02
Speaker 4: Certainly we'll be well.
1:03
Speaker 3: Let's start with the Olympics gold medal for the Black
1:06
Speaker 3: Fern sevens, A place furnished or a quarterfinal eksit, depending
1:10
Speaker 3: on which way you want to spin it. For the
1:12
Speaker 3: men's side, I guess first and foremost, let's celebrate the
1:15
Speaker 3: women's side, because I think they deserve it. They've been
1:18
Speaker 3: the pacesetters in women's sevens since it became into the Olympics.
1:22
Speaker 3: They missed out obviously on gold in twenty sixteen, but
1:26
Speaker 3: they have been quite the phenomenon over a number of years.
1:29
Speaker 3: And it feels like that gold medal was a bit
1:31
Speaker 3: of a closing of the book. I guess on a
1:34
Speaker 3: generation that has delivered so much to New Zealand sevens
1:38
Speaker 3: and New Zealand rugby and we're not going to see
1:41
Speaker 3: Portia Woodman Wickcliffe again. We know that Tyler King is going,
1:46
Speaker 3: Stacy Waka sees she'll be back, but we don't know
1:49
Speaker 3: when others or I guess a bit up in the year.
1:51
Speaker 3: The likes have said it hit any so it felt
1:54
Speaker 3: like the closing of a book. But if that's the
1:56
Speaker 3: closing of the book, then it's a hell of a
1:58
Speaker 3: final line to what has been a great read.
2:02
Speaker 6: Yeah, what a team earlier.
2:03
Speaker 5: I mean, you can put this Black Fern's sevens team
2:07
Speaker 5: up there with the greatest in New Zealand rugby, and
2:11
Speaker 5: you'd say the same for some of those athletes there
2:14
Speaker 5: that you mentioned, not just in a woman's context, but
2:20
Speaker 5: when you're comparing them to the men as well. Back
2:22
Speaker 5: to back gold medals at Olympic Games puts them in
2:25
Speaker 5: a really elite eschelon in a New Zealand context, let
2:30
Speaker 5: alone a global one. I guess from a tournament perspective,
2:34
Speaker 5: it didn't go to script, did it. You know, they
2:36
Speaker 5: perhaps had a favorable drawer. The Aussies choked I think,
2:42
Speaker 5: and the Black Ferns made hard work of the final
2:46
Speaker 5: with Porsche's yellow card. They had to really grind that out,
2:50
Speaker 5: but you always felt like they were going to get
2:53
Speaker 5: the job done there. But yeah, what a triumph and
2:55
Speaker 5: an amazing way for the lacks of Porsche to finish.
2:59
Speaker 5: Sarah hid In that you mentioned there, to even reach
3:01
Speaker 5: that stage after her acl I think she played the
3:05
Speaker 5: final with a fractured face. I'm not sure if it
3:08
Speaker 5: was a cheap bone. So you know, you can compare
3:11
Speaker 5: her to McCaw and the Raby World Cup final playing
3:14
Speaker 5: with a broken foot. There's certainly parallels there in terms
3:17
Speaker 5: of how inspirational sheh is to that team. So a
3:21
Speaker 5: magic moment on a on a grand stage for you know,
3:24
Speaker 5: a really special bunch of athletes as well.
3:27
Speaker 6: I think it's worth.
3:28
Speaker 5: Noting just how genuine and engaging they are in.
3:34
Speaker 6: All facets of.
3:37
Speaker 5: Their sporting realm as well, so that that certainly shines through.
3:40
Speaker 6: So, you know, an amazing achievement.
3:42
Speaker 3: It is they love their sport, they love their team.
3:46
Speaker 3: It is really special that environment and it's been world
3:50
Speaker 3: class for a number of years. And you're right Australia
3:53
Speaker 3: missing out on a medal entirely is you know that
3:57
Speaker 3: Canada women in the semi final probably the biggest upset
4:01
Speaker 3: in women's seven's history, maybe closely followed by the bronze
4:05
Speaker 3: medal match where again Australia missed out. Staggering stuff because
4:11
Speaker 3: going into the tournament I thought it was fifty to
4:13
Speaker 3: fifty and I thought both teams had been playing quite well.
4:16
Speaker 3: But I was in the tournament, maybe just giving the
4:18
Speaker 3: edge slightly to the Australigans. Madison Levi in an incredible form.
4:22
Speaker 3: But you know, Canada, credit to them. They were unfancied,
4:25
Speaker 3: but they just dug in and beat France the hosts
4:30
Speaker 3: in the quarter final. Bit of Stratiga in the semi final,
4:32
Speaker 3: I thought that was really really impressive. But look, the
4:35
Speaker 3: end of an era. In many ways, I guess there's
4:38
Speaker 3: new players coming through Georgia.
4:39
Speaker 4: Miller is world class already.
4:42
Speaker 3: The likes of the others Paul and Nukhu are young
4:46
Speaker 3: players in there so as well set up for the future.
4:49
Speaker 3: Rissi Polti Lane co captain of the tournament, very very
4:52
Speaker 3: young still as well, and we'll have a number of
4:54
Speaker 3: tournaments and years in cycles of the Olympics under her belt.
4:58
Speaker 3: So great stuff from the women's sevens team. I guess
5:01
Speaker 3: if we look at the men liam sevens in the
5:05
Speaker 3: men's format can be a funny game. But they just
5:08
Speaker 3: were in the quarter final against South Africa. They faded
5:12
Speaker 3: out of that game pretty badly and that was that.
5:15
Speaker 3: And it's the cutthroat nature of sevens. You don't get
5:17
Speaker 3: another chance and they blew it. And for me, I'm
5:22
Speaker 3: a treat to get your thoughts on this. Seven's in
5:24
Speaker 3: the men's context is quite challenged. I think in the
5:27
Speaker 3: New Zealand rugby market, you've got all the players that
5:32
Speaker 3: are there for the All Blacks jersey, the Mouldy All Blacks,
5:35
Speaker 3: Super Rugby, et cetera. And sometimes through design or through
5:42
Speaker 3: just the way that New Zealand rugby is feels like
5:44
Speaker 3: the sevens program is a bit of an afterthought and
5:46
Speaker 3: I don't really know the way to fix it. But
5:49
Speaker 3: if we look at the tournament itself before we dig
5:50
Speaker 3: into that, what did you make of that? Their exit?
5:53
Speaker 3: And can it you put it down to just a
5:56
Speaker 3: bad dabt the office or is there more at it?
5:59
Speaker 5: I think it is worth acknowledging that sevens is different
6:02
Speaker 5: to fifteen's, isn't it. It's wambam, it's bounce to the ball,
6:07
Speaker 5: a penalty here, a runaway there. It's such a brutal
6:11
Speaker 5: format that a match result can swing momentum so quickly.
6:16
Speaker 5: But this was a real dagger blow for the men
6:19
Speaker 5: to not even really get close to meddling. I think
6:24
Speaker 5: there's some real soul searching that needs to go on,
6:27
Speaker 5: you know, with that results. They have performed well in
6:31
Speaker 5: recent times, the men on the global circuit as well,
6:34
Speaker 5: so they will be extremely disappointed. But I think you're
6:40
Speaker 5: right in your assessment of where it stands in the
6:42
Speaker 5: pecking order. I think there's a real case to be
6:44
Speaker 5: made that New Zealand Rugby doesn't prioritize the goal medal
6:50
Speaker 5: Olympic medals when it comes to the men's it's all
6:53
Speaker 5: about the all Blacks and the fifteens game. And that's
6:57
Speaker 5: why you can't compare the woman with the men, because
7:00
Speaker 5: the woman that is, they have the elite of the elite.
7:06
Speaker 5: If you look at what happened with the Black Back
7:08
Speaker 5: Ferns and their fifteen's World Cup, those sevens players were
7:12
Speaker 5: so influential in going back and playing fifteens and helping
7:16
Speaker 5: the Black Ferns to that title, where the men, those
7:21
Speaker 5: players go into a provincial setup and struggle to break
7:24
Speaker 5: into those teams, so that it's really poles apart in
7:28
Speaker 5: terms of the level of athletes that are in these teams.
7:31
Speaker 5: So when you look at the All Blacks, I think,
7:35
Speaker 5: you know, Will Jordan flirted with the idea, but I
7:38
Speaker 5: don't think anyone else you know, seriously considered it. Caleb
7:41
Speaker 5: Clark four years ago couldn't make the team, So making
7:44
Speaker 5: that transition isn't as easy as it seems. But you'd
7:48
Speaker 5: have to think that certainly that team for me lack pace,
7:51
Speaker 5: out out and out pace, and you'd have to think
7:54
Speaker 5: there are some better athletes out there that would be
7:58
Speaker 5: suited to the fifteen the sevens arena. But maybe it's
8:01
Speaker 5: just not that enticing to commit for a four year
8:03
Speaker 5: cycle or six months out. You know, I think it
8:07
Speaker 5: does need we think.
8:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the Olympics needs to be reset from
8:13
Speaker 3: a New Zealand rugby men's perspective, and that goes for
8:17
Speaker 3: the Insidos SIG as well. They've got to play their
8:19
Speaker 3: role in selling what being an Olympian is all about.
8:23
Speaker 3: I don't think they particularly sold it well. I think
8:25
Speaker 3: there was this idea when sevens first came into the
8:28
Speaker 3: Olympics that every man and their dog from every rugby
8:32
Speaker 3: Ish sport league and fifteen's men's We're going to put
8:36
Speaker 3: their hands up and go I want to be part
8:38
Speaker 3: of that. But it just hasn't been realized when we
8:40
Speaker 3: saw Sonny but Williams do it in twenty sixteen, but
8:44
Speaker 3: it never has quite captured the imagination of the All
8:48
Speaker 3: Blacks like many were expecting. I can remember when it
8:51
Speaker 3: was sort of first being named in the Olympics and
8:53
Speaker 3: Shawn Johnson being asked about it and those sort of things.
8:56
Speaker 3: Well that none of that's ever materialized, and so I
8:59
Speaker 3: think that New Zealand Rugby and the INSIDOC do need
9:02
Speaker 3: to sell the job a bit better. But if it's
9:04
Speaker 3: never appealed to you in terms of an Olympic medal,
9:06
Speaker 3: and you've grown up wanting to to represent New Zealand
9:09
Speaker 3: in fifteen's and where the All Blacks jersey and build
9:13
Speaker 3: yourself towards a World Cup and play for the Bledder's
9:15
Speaker 3: Low Cup whatever it might be, or play for Super Rugby.
9:18
Speaker 3: Then trying to sell the stream of an Olympic gold
9:20
Speaker 3: medal I think becomes quite tricky. And we haven't seen
9:23
Speaker 3: the benefits from those fifteens players from New zealanderspective. Anyway,
9:27
Speaker 3: go and do it, so I don't know what necessarily
9:29
Speaker 3: the answers. I agree that it's hard to keep hold
9:32
Speaker 3: of that talent and always has been for the men's team.
9:35
Speaker 3: You know, look at the players that have you know,
9:37
Speaker 3: in Gordon Kitchen's era that were he brought through and
9:40
Speaker 3: then we're elevated to Super Rugby and beyond and he
9:44
Speaker 3: never saw them again.
9:44
Speaker 4: It continues now.
9:46
Speaker 3: William Warbrecker was very very good for that New Zealand
9:49
Speaker 3: men sevenside for a few seasons, got plucked by the
9:52
Speaker 3: storm and he's going from strength to strength. I think
9:54
Speaker 3: they're missing pace out wide, But for me, I think
9:57
Speaker 3: it just requires a little bit of a reset as
9:59
Speaker 3: to how they're going to plan to go forward, because
10:02
Speaker 3: I think Liam, if you'd said rugby's going to be
10:04
Speaker 3: in the Olympics and in the first three cycles New
10:08
Speaker 3: Zealand when a men's gold medal, in fact, we'll only
10:11
Speaker 3: get one medal from those three games, I think everyone
10:14
Speaker 3: would have been pretty surprised.
10:16
Speaker 6: Yeah, big time.
10:17
Speaker 5: And if you think about the exposure that Seven's gives
10:21
Speaker 5: rugby on a global stage, You've seen, you know, clips
10:24
Speaker 5: blow up online, people go viral, particularly in the woman's scene.
10:30
Speaker 5: It is a major stage and you know, New Zealand
10:33
Speaker 5: rugby is in this space where it's all about building
10:36
Speaker 5: its brand and capitalizing on global fans and all these
10:39
Speaker 5: sorts of things. So from that perspective you could argue
10:42
Speaker 5: that this is quite damaging.
10:44
Speaker 6: You know, from a men's side of things.
10:47
Speaker 5: A results a black jersey on the world stage, you know,
10:51
Speaker 5: very underwhelming.
10:52
Speaker 6: So how do they feel about that? What are they
10:55
Speaker 6: going to do?
10:56
Speaker 5: You know, when you talk about different athletes that are
10:58
Speaker 5: out there attending Nino Sotutro, you know, Sean Stevenson, even
11:03
Speaker 5: some of the nippier halfbacks going around the scene, they
11:08
Speaker 5: would all have an impact if they were allowed a
11:11
Speaker 5: decent lead in time, but it just doesn't seem to
11:15
Speaker 5: be a lure. So I think it does need a rethink.
11:19
Speaker 5: It does need to be really prioritized. And it is
11:23
Speaker 5: such a major event once every four years that it's
11:26
Speaker 5: not about investment, but I think it does need some
11:30
Speaker 5: real attention and priority given to it.
11:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's going to be fascinating.
11:34
Speaker 3: Right. Let's move on to the Rugby Championship and the
11:36
Speaker 3: All Blacks. I'm in Wellington, you're gitting down tomorrow to
11:40
Speaker 3: the Capitol and we have an All Black squad selected
11:43
Speaker 3: a little bit a week ago for the Rugby Championship,
11:46
Speaker 3: which has already been tinkered with with Scott Barrett out injured,
11:50
Speaker 3: Harry Plummer, Cordon his cover for Stephen Petafetta who's carrying
11:53
Speaker 3: a niggle ARDSRV is going to be the captain if
11:57
Speaker 3: we go back a few days to win.
11:59
Speaker 4: The squad was named.
12:00
Speaker 3: I guess that the big story was Finlay Christie not
12:04
Speaker 3: being included in the squad of thirty six or one
12:07
Speaker 3: of the three half backs. When we did our rankings
12:10
Speaker 3: of our half backs last time out, we missed him
12:13
Speaker 3: both out in our top three and I think we're
12:17
Speaker 3: on the same wavelength as Scott Hansen and Scott Robertson
12:20
Speaker 3: there evidently, Liam.
12:22
Speaker 6: I think it's been a long time coming.
12:23
Speaker 5: Elliott to a degree, Finlay's you know, we've talked about
12:27
Speaker 5: his defensive qualities, but with the next Cropper halfbacks coming through,
12:33
Speaker 5: he got usurped very quickly, didn't He His hesitation at
12:38
Speaker 5: the base, Some of his kicking game was a bit errants,
12:41
Speaker 5: and just that the pace and the accuracy that I
12:46
Speaker 5: think the All Blacks want and have done for such
12:48
Speaker 5: a long time, he doesn't really fit that mold.
12:52
Speaker 6: So for me it was a bit of a surprise.
12:55
Speaker 5: But just because of how conservative Scott Robertson and this
12:58
Speaker 5: All Blacks coaching team have been to this point three
13:02
Speaker 5: tests into their tenure, very conservative baby steps forward, and
13:08
Speaker 5: I guess Finley was a guy that they inherited, but
13:11
Speaker 5: courtiers that Artema Noah Hotham really went past them, and
13:15
Speaker 5: he was probably going head to head with TJ. Pedara
13:18
Speaker 5: for you know, that one experienced head in the half
13:22
Speaker 5: back ranks. I guess the only other major talking points
13:24
Speaker 5: from that squad was Will Jordan and Sam Kin coming
13:27
Speaker 5: back any any sort of surprise there for you.
13:31
Speaker 3: Look, I was a little bit surprised to see Sam
13:33
Speaker 3: kin selected just on the basis and I guess that
13:36
Speaker 3: you could make the same argument now with t J
13:38
Speaker 3: Peternaro who's going and we'll touch on that in a moment.
13:41
Speaker 3: But they've had an eye to the future in a
13:44
Speaker 3: lot of ways with some of those selections they made
13:47
Speaker 3: for the Rugby Championship around half back. Apart from TJ
13:51
Speaker 3: of course, but they're almost like, well, looking a little
13:54
Speaker 3: bit backwards, I think with Sam Kain Now, I get
13:56
Speaker 3: you've got to live in the hero and now and
13:58
Speaker 3: and when the Test matches in front of you, But
14:02
Speaker 3: at the same time he has signaled he's leaving at
14:04
Speaker 3: the end of the year. I'm not saying you can't
14:06
Speaker 3: pick it necessarily, but just one with a just a
14:10
Speaker 3: little bit of a backward step necessarily keeping him around
14:14
Speaker 3: and ends not allowing him just to have a clean break.
14:18
Speaker 3: I don't know, it just feels like it's perhaps a
14:20
Speaker 3: tat unnecessary when they could be blooding someone new or
14:24
Speaker 3: bringing someone new in. I get why you want him
14:27
Speaker 3: in there. He's had ninety five caps of experience with
14:29
Speaker 3: the All Blacks. I used to wonder whether maybe the
14:32
Speaker 3: time was right to look at someone new.
14:35
Speaker 5: It's a delicate one, isn't it, Because if you are
14:37
Speaker 5: planning for the future, you know you could argue someone
14:41
Speaker 5: like a Peter Luckeye would would be gain more value
14:45
Speaker 5: from being in that squad. I heard suggestions that Sam
14:50
Speaker 5: kin at the start of the year was told he's
14:53
Speaker 5: likely to get to one hundred caps, and then there
14:54
Speaker 5: are a few whispers that maybe he was on the
14:56
Speaker 5: cusp of missing out on the squad. So I don't
14:59
Speaker 5: know quite where that ends up, but I guess what
15:03
Speaker 5: are we six nine months ago sam Kine played his
15:07
Speaker 5: best test for the in that World Cup quarterfinal against Ireland.
15:11
Speaker 5: If he can produce that, he is thoroughly deserving of
15:14
Speaker 5: his place. But then he is leaving at the end
15:16
Speaker 5: of the year. So from an open side perspective, you know,
15:20
Speaker 5: wouldn't you be better off investing in someone else, giving
15:23
Speaker 5: them a chance to gain experience and s build a
15:27
Speaker 5: combination with the loose forward trio.
15:29
Speaker 6: So it is a very delicate one.
15:31
Speaker 5: But I guess the All Blacks have to win every
15:33
Speaker 5: test and Scott Robinson clearly sees Sam Kaine as being
15:38
Speaker 5: a valuable a set to have around, you know, from
15:42
Speaker 5: a leadership perspective as much as anything else in the background.
15:45
Speaker 3: Probably speaking of leadership, Scott Barrett out injured for the
15:48
Speaker 3: first two Tests of the year for the Rugby Championship.
15:51
Speaker 3: Excuse me, Ardie Savilla predictably named as captain for the
15:55
Speaker 3: next couple of weeks. Cody Taylor elevated into the vice
15:58
Speaker 3: captaincy alongside Jordi Barrett this week. Look, I think no
16:03
Speaker 3: surprise is there in terms of that, but it is
16:05
Speaker 3: a loss at line out time for the All Blacks
16:07
Speaker 3: not having Scott Barrett there. He played in all three
16:10
Speaker 3: tiests obviously to start the season, so he's going to
16:12
Speaker 3: set out the next two. The word is right for
16:14
Speaker 3: South Africa if you hear Jason Ryan's assistance at the
16:18
Speaker 3: media session today. So it's kind of interesting to see
16:20
Speaker 3: the All Blacks this week, isn't it? Around the selections
16:24
Speaker 3: at Locke Patrick Deuypilotto and who partners him in the
16:27
Speaker 3: second row to face Argentina.
16:29
Speaker 6: You presume to Bouvia would go in there.
16:32
Speaker 5: Sam Derry obviously in the squad as well, but look
16:35
Speaker 5: at the lineout was vast improved against Fiji, but was
16:39
Speaker 5: extremely vulnerable up against Maro at Toji and England. So
16:44
Speaker 5: it is a concern to lose your best lineout's ball winner,
16:50
Speaker 5: your captain. And it is an interesting scenario for Scott
16:54
Speaker 5: as well because he's had such a patchy year, you know,
16:56
Speaker 5: missed along most of the vast majority of the season
17:00
Speaker 5: for the Crusaders with their back injury and now a
17:03
Speaker 5: finger while he's trying to establish himself as All Black captain,
17:06
Speaker 5: so not ideal to be side lined again.
17:10
Speaker 6: He'll be chomping at the bit to get back for
17:12
Speaker 6: the box.
17:12
Speaker 5: But I think the Pumas, if they were doing their homework,
17:15
Speaker 5: they'll be coming straight for the All Blacks lineout to
17:18
Speaker 5: put that under some heat and see if they can
17:20
Speaker 5: get some pay from that area.
17:22
Speaker 3: Also, Harry Plumber called an as cover for the injured
17:25
Speaker 3: Stephen Petifitz. A nice reward for Harry Plumber who had
17:28
Speaker 3: a very good Super Rugby season and gets perhaps an
17:32
Speaker 3: opportunity or sit in the opportunity to show what he
17:34
Speaker 3: can do. Rubin Love selected obviously for this campaign as well,
17:39
Speaker 3: but the All Black signaling maybe they just need an
17:42
Speaker 3: extra ten and looking to give Harry Plumber a little
17:45
Speaker 3: bit of experience.
17:47
Speaker 5: Yeah, good reward, isn't it for a guy that guided
17:49
Speaker 5: the Blues unheralded playmaker for a number of years, guided
17:53
Speaker 5: the Blues a very special title for them. And I
17:56
Speaker 5: guess the guy that offers a bit of versatility is
17:59
Speaker 5: a bigger ten can cover twelve, so you know, quite
18:03
Speaker 5: desirable from a bench perspective, and Rubin Love very happy
18:07
Speaker 5: to see him include out and out attacking weapon, genuine
18:12
Speaker 5: fullback and probably one step closer to a debut with
18:15
Speaker 5: Stephen Peterfitzer, Nursing and Nigel And of course he started
18:19
Speaker 5: those two tests at fallback against England, so pretty much
18:23
Speaker 5: going head to head, I guess with Bowden Barrett for
18:26
Speaker 5: you know, maybe some game time in the backfield.
18:30
Speaker 3: What do we expect from Argentina? Liam, I guess they
18:34
Speaker 3: were well beaten by France in the first Test of
18:38
Speaker 3: the year and undemanded. France then bounce back to beat
18:41
Speaker 3: them in the second week and then thump Uriguy seventy
18:45
Speaker 3: nine to five in the third week of the International
18:47
Speaker 3: Block in July. What do we expect from Argentina as
18:52
Speaker 3: they show up here? Last time they were in New Zealand,
18:54
Speaker 3: they beat New Zealand in christ Church and that shock result,
18:58
Speaker 3: then with thump the week after. But do they have
19:00
Speaker 3: the ability to go out and give them a bit
19:03
Speaker 3: of a tickle up at sky Stadium on the weekend.
19:06
Speaker 5: I think they'll be competitive, but they are an unknown
19:09
Speaker 5: quantity out't there new coach?
19:11
Speaker 6: Post World Cup?
19:12
Speaker 5: I guess a bit of change that series against France
19:15
Speaker 5: really hard to get a read on the French send
19:18
Speaker 5: out a second string team had some a number of
19:21
Speaker 5: issues off the field as well, so hard to know
19:24
Speaker 5: quite where the Pumas are at. But they are a
19:26
Speaker 5: team that will challenge you hard at the breakdown. They'll
19:29
Speaker 5: contest in the air, they'll they'll play a lot of rugby,
19:32
Speaker 5: will offload. So the All Blacks have been vulnerable at
19:36
Speaker 5: the breakdown when you go back to that England series
19:39
Speaker 5: and their inability I guess to produce lightning quickball and
19:46
Speaker 5: secure their own their own pill So I think the
19:49
Speaker 5: Pumas will come hard and fast there. But look, you'd
19:52
Speaker 5: expect the All Blacks at this stage to win and
19:56
Speaker 5: win reasonably comfortably. But you probably would have said the
19:58
Speaker 5: same about that result in christ Church, so you never
20:03
Speaker 5: ruled anything out in this climate.
20:04
Speaker 3: Do you you don't speaking of this climates if you
20:08
Speaker 3: change or a few cummings and goings. So over the
20:11
Speaker 3: last couple of weeks, t Je Petenara departing after this year,
20:15
Speaker 3: Dold and Papa Leti re signing through to twenty twenty seven,
20:17
Speaker 3: calib Clark sticking around for twenty twenty five. What stands
20:21
Speaker 3: out from those three putting pen to paper either in
20:25
Speaker 3: New Zealand or going abroad Limb.
20:28
Speaker 5: I guess by and large, good business from New Zealand
20:31
Speaker 5: rugby's perspective, isn't it.
20:32
Speaker 6: Caleb Clark?
20:33
Speaker 5: I guess you'd question why only one year extension he
20:38
Speaker 5: leaves his options open. Hasn't really had a great crack
20:43
Speaker 5: at the All Blacks left wing Jersey.
20:46
Speaker 6: I think he deserves it.
20:47
Speaker 5: At this point the All Blacks were sort of exposed
20:49
Speaker 5: under the high ball with the crossfield kicks against England's.
20:52
Speaker 6: That's where an area he's really proficient.
20:55
Speaker 5: But he's talked about, you know, fluting with the idea
20:58
Speaker 5: of going to rugby league. So maybe if he doesn't
21:00
Speaker 5: get a serious crack over the next eighteen months, maybe
21:04
Speaker 5: he will deflect. I think he would be a real
21:07
Speaker 5: success in the Dolon Papolli, no real surprise committing through
21:12
Speaker 5: to the next World Cup. We mentioned Sam Kine moving
21:14
Speaker 5: on at the end of this year, so there's a
21:16
Speaker 5: real open avenue to that. All Blacks open side Jersey
21:20
Speaker 5: and TJ Peinar, I guess, no major surprise. I think
21:23
Speaker 5: he was actually contracted next year. But he signed on
21:28
Speaker 5: a three year deal with the Black Rams in Japan.
21:32
Speaker 5: And it makes sense, doesn't it to cash in at
21:34
Speaker 5: this stage of his career, having battle back from eighteen
21:37
Speaker 5: months success of Achilles injuries, coming off off the back
21:42
Speaker 5: of another knee injury. But it is he's got till
21:45
Speaker 5: the end of the year, and I know it would
21:47
Speaker 5: have been a really tough decision for a guy that's
21:50
Speaker 5: extremely competitive. Do you think had he stuck around that,
21:55
Speaker 5: you know, I guess maybe he was in danger of
21:59
Speaker 5: being overtaken.
22:00
Speaker 3: I think that was definitely part of it for him.
22:02
Speaker 3: And you look at the players that are coming through now,
22:05
Speaker 3: and I'm sure he didn't sign the contract the last
22:08
Speaker 3: two weeks since Noah Hotham made his debut, but I
22:10
Speaker 3: think he probably got a sense that there were some
22:13
Speaker 3: good young halfbacks coming through and he would be usurped
22:17
Speaker 3: at some point, and I think he's given plenty to
22:21
Speaker 3: New Zealand rugby, backed up Aaron Smith for a number
22:24
Speaker 3: of years, played a lot of those tests off the
22:26
Speaker 3: bench and controlled the last twenty minutes and finished the
22:29
Speaker 3: games for the All Blacks. So I think he can
22:32
Speaker 3: be very proud of his career, proved himself both proved
22:36
Speaker 3: that he could make it back both to himself and
22:37
Speaker 3: to the rugby world after that injury, making it back
22:41
Speaker 3: this year with the All Blacks number one for a point,
22:43
Speaker 3: and may still go out as the All Blacks number one,
22:45
Speaker 3: depending on how the rest of the year shakes down.
22:47
Speaker 3: But I think there's probably a realization that the cam
22:50
Speaker 3: Roy guard Colled, Thesraziman, Noah Hothams of the world are
22:53
Speaker 3: coming for that number nine and number twenty two Jusey
22:56
Speaker 3: or twenty one Jewsey, I should say. So he's made
22:58
Speaker 3: the call to go out on his terms, and good
23:00
Speaker 3: luck to him. I think it's it's the right call
23:02
Speaker 3: for him. Interesting as well to see that dearly signed
23:06
Speaker 3: can include some coaching expertsperience towards the back end, so
23:09
Speaker 3: that's interesting for future and down the track and how
23:13
Speaker 3: that might play out for TJ. Caleb Clark. I mean
23:17
Speaker 3: the one you deal for me is interesting because that
23:23
Speaker 3: does leave that league door right open. He's a big
23:26
Speaker 3: fan of South Sydney. He's talked about that. It would
23:29
Speaker 3: not surprise me to see him go to Rugby League
23:33
Speaker 3: after that. Before we take a break here on Rugby
23:35
Speaker 3: Direct and finish up the first half of our podcast,
23:38
Speaker 3: just some intel. We've got spies everywhere on the ground, lamb,
23:41
Speaker 3: don't we. The Rugby Director community is very very good
23:44
Speaker 3: at sharing what they're seeing out there, and I had
23:48
Speaker 3: some intel on Friday that Richiemonger and Scott Hansen we
23:53
Speaker 3: were seen having a coffee and then also seen on
23:56
Speaker 3: the sidelines of the Tasman Southland game in christ Church,
24:00
Speaker 3: the NPC build up game, and I think they met
24:05
Speaker 3: halfway Tasman in Southland, but Richie Moonger on the sideline
24:09
Speaker 3: there alongside Scott Hansen, Scott Robertson and Thomas E.
24:13
Speaker 4: Ellison. So make of that what you will.
24:17
Speaker 5: It's all right, So what is it the gc SB,
24:19
Speaker 5: the government spy agency. Least to say, Rugby Direct's got
24:25
Speaker 5: its own people in the wings and.
24:29
Speaker 6: Little lasers out in the community.
24:30
Speaker 5: So it's not a surprise, is that that Richie's engaged
24:35
Speaker 5: with all Blacks management. Given you know what we've heard
24:38
Speaker 5: over the last eighteen months, but very good intel from
24:42
Speaker 5: u LA and I would expect nothing less than you
24:44
Speaker 5: tapping into the christ Church community.
24:47
Speaker 3: That's right, yeap, keep it coming. We will take any
24:50
Speaker 3: oil if you want to send it our way. Right,
24:53
Speaker 3: We'll take a break here on Rugby Direct. Come back
24:55
Speaker 3: with the final four after this.
24:58
Speaker 1: The Rugby Direct.
25:00
Speaker 2: Howard Badies talk it, call yourself a real Rugby fan.
25:04
Speaker 2: This is Rugby Direct.
25:07
Speaker 3: You're back with Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions. Time
25:10
Speaker 3: now for our final four. On the podcast four Rugby Topics,
25:14
Speaker 3: myself and Liam debate them. Topic one Liam, this came
25:19
Speaker 3: out as a result of Anton DuPont and if it's
25:22
Speaker 3: with the French seven sides which was a big reason
25:27
Speaker 3: why they won and a suggestion on x formerly Twitter
25:31
Speaker 3: that he was the greatest player of all time. Where
25:34
Speaker 3: do you stand on this?
25:35
Speaker 1: Is he.
25:37
Speaker 6: Look in short? No, he's not.
25:39
Speaker 5: I think Aaron Smith summed it up nicely for me.
25:41
Speaker 5: He tweeted that he's the greatest player of this generation.
25:45
Speaker 5: I think he certainly has claims to that, but I
25:49
Speaker 5: think whenever there's something front and center like the Olympics,
25:55
Speaker 5: like Anton DuPont making a seamless transition to the sevens.
25:58
Speaker 5: We talked about some of the athletes in New Zealand
26:01
Speaker 5: that haven't managed that.
26:02
Speaker 6: So look, he's a phenomenal talent.
26:04
Speaker 5: He can kick off both feet, he is change the
26:09
Speaker 5: game from a halfback perspective. He really does do it all.
26:13
Speaker 5: But he also hasn't done a lot. He hasn't spent
26:15
Speaker 5: a lot of time playing in the Southern Hemisphere. He
26:18
Speaker 5: hasn't won a World Cup, and this is you know,
26:20
Speaker 5: he can only do so much from an individual perspective.
26:23
Speaker 5: But when you go back to the World Cup, I think,
26:26
Speaker 5: reflecting on his performance in that quarter final when the
26:29
Speaker 5: spring box pit the French, there were moments in that
26:32
Speaker 5: match where he wasn't very composed in the white hot
26:35
Speaker 5: heat of a home World Cup, a knockout match, and
26:39
Speaker 5: so I think, you know, he's one top fourteen titles,
26:42
Speaker 5: he's won an Olympic gold. But for me, he's still young,
26:46
Speaker 5: he's still got a bit to prove, he's still got
26:47
Speaker 5: a bit to do to get to.
26:49
Speaker 6: That goat status.
26:50
Speaker 5: But it is a very strange debate, isn't it to
26:53
Speaker 5: compare players, compare generations, but for me, he's not quite
26:57
Speaker 5: there yet.
26:58
Speaker 4: No, I think he's there yet either.
27:01
Speaker 3: Agreed he's the best player of the current generation, but
27:05
Speaker 3: a few question marks in terms of he barely plays
27:07
Speaker 3: outside out of Europe all the six nations, to be
27:11
Speaker 3: quite honest, and only plays in France very rarely tours.
27:15
Speaker 3: We won't see him in New Zealand. I wouldn't have
27:16
Speaker 3: thought next year. It's been pretty much confirmed on that.
27:19
Speaker 3: I think you have to. It's kind of like cricket.
27:21
Speaker 3: You can't just score all your runs at home. You
27:24
Speaker 3: kind of have to score abroad to be considered as
27:27
Speaker 3: one of the greats. If you can score away from
27:28
Speaker 3: home and unfamiliar conditions, then you can be called one
27:33
Speaker 3: of the greats depending on your record. So I think
27:36
Speaker 3: he's still got to do that. The sevens think, yep,
27:38
Speaker 3: he was a big factor in why France won that,
27:42
Speaker 3: but he wouldn't have played sevens if it wasn't in France.
27:45
Speaker 3: It was a publicity stunt more than anything. In many ways,
27:48
Speaker 3: I thought like good on him for doing it, and
27:50
Speaker 3: the good on him for the French Rugby Federation and
27:53
Speaker 3: to lose allowing him to do it and making it happen,
27:55
Speaker 3: but it was by and larger publicity stunt. He wasn't
27:58
Speaker 3: going to play if it was an LA he won't
28:00
Speaker 3: be backward in the four and four years time. So
28:03
Speaker 3: that was a moment to try and effectively. Listen, ticket
28:06
Speaker 3: sales that started to France and it worked. Very very
28:09
Speaker 3: good player. I think it's still some question marks and yeah,
28:14
Speaker 3: I just think, you know, you kind of do have
28:16
Speaker 3: to win a World Cup or at least be in
28:21
Speaker 3: contention for a World Cup to be considered one of
28:24
Speaker 3: the great So I think he's the best player on
28:26
Speaker 3: the planet, maybe just alongside artisav at the moment, but
28:29
Speaker 3: there's still a long way for him to go to
28:31
Speaker 3: be considered the greatest of all time. Topic number two.
28:35
Speaker 3: Some sad news for our friends and Kutter with the
28:38
Speaker 3: news there but has been to host the nation's championship
28:42
Speaker 3: final weekend has been rejected. What do you make of this, Lamb.
28:46
Speaker 5: Yes, I've been in undated actually from Rugby Direct fans
28:49
Speaker 5: and kat that's big and pause pause to poise sorry
28:55
Speaker 5: to buy tickets for the grand weekend that that was touted. Look,
29:01
Speaker 5: I am quite surprised in the current climate of financial
29:05
Speaker 5: strife across world rugby, that these unions didn't take the
29:10
Speaker 5: money and run and turn a blind eye to, you know,
29:14
Speaker 5: all the human rights issues surrounding Qatar, and basically came
29:23
Speaker 5: down to us the usual split North feast South. So
29:27
Speaker 5: from what I've read in a number of different outlets,
29:30
Speaker 5: Island and France rejected it, and effectively they only need
29:34
Speaker 5: one union to say no. On this occasion, there was
29:37
Speaker 5: a split among the Southern hemisphere nations and it's caused
29:40
Speaker 5: a real rift with the South who were absolutely dead
29:43
Speaker 5: keen to take the money to get the bail out,
29:45
Speaker 5: to have the guaranteed purses for the next what was it,
29:49
Speaker 5: twelve years, So it doesn't sound like there's any comparable
29:53
Speaker 5: bids from a financial perspective. But I also think I
29:57
Speaker 5: think it's a good move because this nation's championship could
30:00
Speaker 5: have fallen over in its first instance if you're playing
30:04
Speaker 5: in front of no One, and that was a real
30:06
Speaker 5: risk with that proposal, and so I think it's I'm
30:11
Speaker 5: glad they're not going there. I think it would have
30:14
Speaker 5: been all about the money, and it's going to be
30:17
Speaker 5: really interesting to see where it does end up.
30:19
Speaker 6: Now.
30:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not how do I put this.
30:23
Speaker 3: I think there is a risk now I think it
30:27
Speaker 3: probably it may fall over the entire concept. Now I
30:30
Speaker 3: know they have agreed this whole thing. I don't have
30:32
Speaker 3: any intel to back that up, but I just think
30:34
Speaker 3: that I'm not sure who's going to come forward to
30:36
Speaker 3: bankroller this is a money spinner for these unions. I'm
30:41
Speaker 3: not sure we'll see it in its original format. Maybe
30:44
Speaker 3: now I don't know. It fels like that was the
30:46
Speaker 3: you know, the deal that was on the table. To
30:49
Speaker 3: be honest, that wouldn't have worried me if they went
30:51
Speaker 3: if the head through cutter everything so far gone on
30:54
Speaker 3: sport washing, like, what's another one? And to add to
30:58
Speaker 3: the list.
30:59
Speaker 4: I don't know.
31:00
Speaker 3: You know, the empty crowds thing doesn't really wash with me,
31:03
Speaker 3: I don't think, because if it's at the United States,
31:05
Speaker 3: is a real risk it's empty over there. You take
31:09
Speaker 3: it anywhere else in Europe. I don't know that it's
31:12
Speaker 3: going to get full crowds that they seem to think
31:14
Speaker 3: it will. Certainly outside the rugby nations like for example Spain,
31:18
Speaker 3: you might get a crowd for the big final game,
31:20
Speaker 3: but I don't, you know, you get it for Day
31:23
Speaker 3: one and the twelve v twelve playoff or whatever it is.
31:26
Speaker 3: So yeah, I can see why they rejected it. I'm
31:32
Speaker 3: intrigued to see whether there's any deal that comes along
31:34
Speaker 3: that that stacks up that could make it work for
31:38
Speaker 3: these unions now. But you know, it's interesting to see
31:41
Speaker 3: France and Iland hold themselves to a higher par than
31:43
Speaker 3: perhaps the other ten unions. So we wait with beta
31:46
Speaker 3: breath to see if someone else comes forward. I mean,
31:47
Speaker 3: they're not necessarily running out of time, but they want
31:50
Speaker 3: to take this to market, don't They liam to the
31:52
Speaker 3: TV broadcasters to have it in their back pocket and
31:55
Speaker 3: have some certainty about where it's going to be held,
31:57
Speaker 3: and at the moment they don't have that to take
32:00
Speaker 3: to broadcasters, with New Zealand Rugby, for instance, their TV
32:03
Speaker 3: deal up at the end of twenty twenty five.
32:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right there, there are some big to overcome now,
32:09
Speaker 5: and I think I agree that I don't think we
32:11
Speaker 5: will see it as a finals weekend because currently they
32:15
Speaker 5: need to negotiate compensation for the French clubs, European clubs
32:20
Speaker 5: in particular for an extra weekend to stage that. So
32:23
Speaker 5: I think what you'll see now as a one off
32:25
Speaker 5: final perhaps in Spain or Germany or one of those
32:29
Speaker 5: big iconic football stadiums trying to maximize the revenue. But yeah,
32:34
Speaker 5: I think there's massive hurdles to overcome and that's why
32:38
Speaker 5: by all accounts, the southern Hemisphere nations South Africa, Australia
32:41
Speaker 5: and New Zealand. I think Argentina are well as well,
32:44
Speaker 5: are actually going as far to seek compensation from the
32:47
Speaker 5: North for vetoying this deal. So big ructions again nothing
32:52
Speaker 5: new in terms of Northeast South. But you know when
32:55
Speaker 5: you look across the ditch at Australia in an incredibly
32:58
Speaker 5: periless state, the states are pretty high.
33:01
Speaker 3: Certainly are watch this space on that one. Speaking of Australia,
33:04
Speaker 3: our friends across the Tasman, can the Wallabies stop the
33:07
Speaker 3: spring By in the opener this weekend in Brisbane? The
33:11
Speaker 3: funny thing about the strong Box they actually don't have
33:14
Speaker 3: the best of records in Australia touring there over the
33:18
Speaker 3: last way while if more losses than you would think.
33:20
Speaker 3: But how do you see this going this weekend? Is
33:23
Speaker 3: Jochmit gonna tip up Rassi in the first meeting between
33:26
Speaker 3: the two, I.
33:27
Speaker 5: Don't think so. No, it is a bit of a
33:29
Speaker 5: bizarre one though, isn't it. Maybe the Box there's a
33:31
Speaker 5: bit of an arrogance there. When they go to Ossie,
33:33
Speaker 5: they just expect to roll in and roll out, and
33:38
Speaker 5: the world champions in the in the current state, you
33:41
Speaker 5: would expect them to do just that, But funny, funnier
33:45
Speaker 5: things have happened. I think Australia are still finding their feet.
33:49
Speaker 5: I don't think they've selected all their best players. Are
33:51
Speaker 5: still you know, the world skeletons of the world aren't
33:54
Speaker 5: going to feature. I think against the Box, he's going
33:56
Speaker 5: to come back for the for the Pumas. So I
33:59
Speaker 5: think the Wallabies are still very much work in progress,
34:02
Speaker 5: so I expect the Box to win that.
34:03
Speaker 6: Let me put this to you earlier. So the Rugby Championship.
34:06
Speaker 5: I think something like six out of the last seven
34:09
Speaker 5: years the All Blacks have won the title.
34:12
Speaker 6: Who wins it this year?
34:15
Speaker 3: I think South Africa wins it this year. I think
34:18
Speaker 3: they'll I think New Zealand and several will split their
34:20
Speaker 3: tests in South Africa.
34:22
Speaker 4: I think South Africa.
34:23
Speaker 3: Will win both against the Wallabies and I just think
34:27
Speaker 3: they might get that one extra win perhaps in the
34:30
Speaker 3: All Blacks to win the Rugby Championship. I don't see
34:35
Speaker 3: Australia or Argentina contending for line honors this time around.
34:40
Speaker 3: I'm going to give it to the Box.
34:41
Speaker 6: You.
34:43
Speaker 5: I think the Box start favorites because hosting those two
34:45
Speaker 5: tests against the All Blacks. But if feel Blacks can
34:48
Speaker 5: have a couple of big wins against the Wallabies and
34:50
Speaker 5: Pumas get a few bonus points at the Box, maybe
34:54
Speaker 5: struggle to get it could be a very very tight
34:57
Speaker 5: run thing all right.
34:59
Speaker 3: And finally on rugby direct Provincial rugby at its finest
35:04
Speaker 3: gets underway this weekend, the NPC and the far Palmer Cup.
35:10
Speaker 3: Liam give us a winner for both of the competitions.
35:13
Speaker 5: Gone, oh, here we go. I'm gonna tip Wellington of course.
35:19
Speaker 5: And the men's have got Billy Proctor back. They've blind
35:23
Speaker 5: the check book again like like they're not meant to.
35:26
Speaker 5: Canterbury looks strong, they're no stand out first five, so
35:30
Speaker 5: I think they'll contind Auckland strong as well, and and
35:35
Speaker 5: the women's are will will tip Auckland's.
35:39
Speaker 6: I think Philly settled squads.
35:41
Speaker 5: I've actually got a mates been been Ben who was
35:46
Speaker 5: involved with the Ponti eighty five hustlers involved with the
35:49
Speaker 5: Auckland team, so hopefully gives me some good intel and
35:53
Speaker 5: they get up.
35:54
Speaker 4: Yeah.
35:54
Speaker 3: For the NPC, I'm going to say Auckland, that squad
35:57
Speaker 3: is seriously stacked, really really is you look at those
36:01
Speaker 3: players across the park. I think Auckland wins the n
36:04
Speaker 3: P m PC and I'm reckoning Canterbury will in the
36:08
Speaker 3: f PC. It's coming back home in the f PC.
36:11
Speaker 3: So that's that's good news. Great to hear Wellington's sort
36:14
Speaker 3: of overspending again. That's that's really really good news.
36:18
Speaker 5: Warms the heart, doesn't it? Almost as much as Rob
36:20
Speaker 5: Penny Coming back to.
36:21
Speaker 3: I was trying to like, I deliberately did not put
36:24
Speaker 3: this on the document to discuss because I just did
36:27
Speaker 3: not want to.
36:29
Speaker 4: I can't bring myself to talk about it. What are
36:31
Speaker 4: they doing?
36:33
Speaker 6: Happy days? Happy days.
36:35
Speaker 3: On that note, that's probably about it for Rugby Direct.
36:37
Speaker 3: Looking forward to this weekend live commentary by the way,
36:40
Speaker 3: news Talks hereb gold Sport, iHeartRadio, All Blacks Argentina from
36:44
Speaker 3: sky Stadium and Wellington. You can read all about it
36:46
Speaker 3: on inzi here, dot co, dot z. That will do us.
36:49
Speaker 3: For Rugby Direct from the Capitol now thanks to Lars
36:52
Speaker 3: and Bars English. We will see you next time on
36:53
Speaker 3: Rugby Direct, powered by Excess Solutions, elevating you and your
36:57
Speaker 3: business to a higher level.
37:03
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks B listen live on air
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