Latest / Leading By Example: Executives Making An Impact / Unapologetically Ambitious: Shellye Archambeau, Former CEO, MetricStream

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Unapologetically Ambitious: Shellye Archambeau, Former CEO, MetricStream · Leading By Example: Executives Making An Impact

0:04
Speaker 1: Rube. I have one loss that literally felt like, Oh
0:11
Speaker 1: my gosh, my career's over right AID Corporation. They were
0:15
Speaker 1: my client. I'd been selling for eighteen months trying to
0:18
Speaker 1: get IBM point of sale equipment and all their stores.
0:22
Speaker 1: We won the deal. This was like tens of millions
0:25
Speaker 1: of dollars multi year. My boss was a hero, His
0:29
Speaker 1: boss was a hero. It's all great until the CEO
0:33
Speaker 1: calls me into his office. They're canceling.
0:39
Speaker 2: What would you do if one of the biggest deals
0:41
Speaker 2: of your career fell apart at the very last second
0:44
Speaker 2: after months of hard work, momentum, and celebration. It's all
0:49
Speaker 2: too easy to retreat, to avoid the team, to sit
0:53
Speaker 2: in the loss. But real leadership is defined by what
0:57
Speaker 2: happens next.
1:00
Speaker 1: One.
1:00
Speaker 2: I'm Jessica Chen, An Emmy Award winning journalist, founder of
1:03
Speaker 2: Soulcast Media and author of Smart Not Loud, How to
1:07
Speaker 2: Get Noticed at Work For All the Right Reasons, and
1:10
Speaker 2: today on Leading by Example. We're diving into resilience, ambition,
1:16
Speaker 2: and intentional leadership with Shelley Arschambau, former tech executive and
1:21
Speaker 2: author of the book Unapologetically Ambitious. Shelley built her career
1:26
Speaker 2: with a level of clarity most people never reach. Starting
1:29
Speaker 2: in high school, she reverse engineered her path to become
1:32
Speaker 2: a CEO at the age of forty. Her journey is
1:35
Speaker 2: a masterclass in turning setbacks into momentum, making high stakes
1:40
Speaker 2: decisions quickly, and showing up for your team when it
1:43
Speaker 2: matters most. But for Shelley, leadership isn't just about personal success.
1:48
Speaker 2: It's about creating space for others to rise, and through
1:51
Speaker 2: her nonprofit Ignite Ambition, she supports early to mid career
1:55
Speaker 2: professionals as a grow and step into leadership roles of
1:58
Speaker 2: their own. In this episode, you'll learn how to find
2:01
Speaker 2: your own path to power and why failure only defines
2:04
Speaker 2: you if you let it. This conversation is about playing
2:07
Speaker 2: the long game, leading with intention, and building the kind
2:10
Speaker 2: of resilience that drives your own success and the success
2:14
Speaker 2: of those around you. I'm Jessica Chen and this is
2:20
Speaker 2: leading by example, Jelly. I'm so honored that you're here
2:29
Speaker 2: with us today. As I was doing the research for
2:31
Speaker 2: our interview, I was number one so impressed with the
2:35
Speaker 2: depth of work experience that you have. I mean, you've
2:38
Speaker 2: done so much, But starting from the very beginning, this
2:42
Speaker 2: ambition of yours, and I think that's really what your
2:44
Speaker 2: book is, unapologically ambitious, and I think I want our
2:48
Speaker 2: listeners to really understand how that even came to be, right,
2:52
Speaker 2: So it take me back to where did that seed
2:55
Speaker 2: of ambition come from.
2:57
Speaker 1: It really came from necessity. I was just trying to
3:01
Speaker 1: figure out, frankly, how to survive. I grew up in
3:04
Speaker 1: the sixties and my parents moved around a lot. I
3:08
Speaker 1: lived in seven states before I got to high school,
3:11
Speaker 1: which meant I was always that new kid, and the
3:13
Speaker 1: environments that we moved into weren't very diverse, and so
3:18
Speaker 1: being an only little black girl in a class, or
3:20
Speaker 1: in a grade, or in a school wasn't always comfortable.
3:24
Speaker 1: People let me know they didn't think I belonged. So
3:26
Speaker 1: I grew up realizing that the odds weren't in my favor.
3:29
Speaker 1: And when you go home and something happens to you,
3:32
Speaker 1: you didn't get picked, you got pushed down, right, something happened.
3:36
Speaker 1: You come home and say, mom, Mom, this happened. And
3:38
Speaker 1: my mother was always very clear. I said, you know,
3:41
Speaker 1: it's not fair, Mom, it's not fair. And you say, Shelley,
3:44
Speaker 1: life's not fair, But it doesn't mean you can't get
3:47
Speaker 1: what you want, you just have to be intentional about it.
3:50
Speaker 1: So I grew up young learning this overall message.
3:54
Speaker 2: So I was reading that you knew already from a
3:57
Speaker 2: very young age that you wanted to go into business
4:00
Speaker 2: and leadership. Was there anyone in your life at that
4:03
Speaker 2: time who inspired you to pursue this path towards leadership?
4:09
Speaker 1: Frankly, it was my high school guidance counselor. You know,
4:11
Speaker 1: you have that junior year conversation, what do you want
4:13
Speaker 1: to do after college? Well, I had no idea, I said,
4:17
Speaker 1: I don't know. All I know is I want to
4:18
Speaker 1: make enough money to keep my thermostat at seventy two
4:21
Speaker 1: degrees in the wintertime. I want to be able to
4:23
Speaker 1: eat out in restaurants, and I want to be able
4:24
Speaker 1: to travel. That's what I want. And she laughed, but
4:27
Speaker 1: I was dead serious. And then she said, well, what
4:30
Speaker 1: do you like to do? And I said, oh, that's easy. Clubs.
4:33
Speaker 1: I'm in everything, American Field Service and French Club, National
4:37
Speaker 1: Hogors Society. I'm even a girl Scout, but like, don't
4:39
Speaker 1: tell anybody because it's totally not cool. And she said, well,
4:43
Speaker 1: you know, to her credit, she said, you know, clubs
4:45
Speaker 1: are like business. You pull people together and you get
4:49
Speaker 1: things done. And I said, oh done. I love these clubs.
4:53
Speaker 1: I'm going into business. I like to run the clubs,
4:55
Speaker 1: always vice president of this and president of that. I said,
4:57
Speaker 1: all right, So I looked up and the people who
4:59
Speaker 1: ranusinesses were called CEOs. So at sixteen, I came home
5:03
Speaker 1: and told my parents I'm going to be a CEO.
5:06
Speaker 2: Not necessarily knowing what that exactly meant. You just like
5:10
Speaker 2: it sounds great. I honestly had no clue. I just
5:13
Speaker 2: knew they run the businesses and I like running the clubs.
5:15
Speaker 2: And I was told the clubs are like business, so
5:17
Speaker 2: this is easy, right. I then spent all the rest
5:20
Speaker 2: of my time figuring out how do I improve my
5:22
Speaker 2: odds to make that happen.
5:24
Speaker 1: But that's why I got into tech because tech was growing,
5:26
Speaker 1: so there's more opportunities of growing industries. I started in
5:29
Speaker 1: sales because all the CEOs that IBM, which is a
5:32
Speaker 1: company I started in, started out in sales. So every
5:35
Speaker 1: decision was really like, okay, calculated, optimized, et cetera. And
5:39
Speaker 1: the good news is I managed to do it. By
5:41
Speaker 1: the time I was forty, I was indeed CEO of
5:43
Speaker 1: a company, and I was able to keep my thermos
5:46
Speaker 1: set at seventy two degrees and eat out in restaurants
5:48
Speaker 1: and travel.
5:50
Speaker 2: I love how that was the additial motivation and it
5:53
Speaker 2: makes total sense. I mean, I think a lot of
5:55
Speaker 2: us would love that. Right now, I want to talk
5:58
Speaker 2: about your leadership experience in a sales role, because I
6:02
Speaker 2: imagine it might be a little bit different depending on
6:04
Speaker 2: the function. So what did you learn when you were
6:07
Speaker 2: managing or in sales?
6:09
Speaker 1: I will tell you I still use more skills that
6:12
Speaker 1: I learned when I was a salesperson and sales manager
6:16
Speaker 1: than any other job I've held. Because when you're in sales,
6:20
Speaker 1: you learn I think the most important lesson, which is no.
6:24
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean no. No means something's not right. Price
6:28
Speaker 1: isn't right, the value proposition isn't right, the timing's not right,
6:31
Speaker 1: the resources aren't right. Something's not right. Well, once you
6:34
Speaker 1: understand that, then you can figure out what's not right
6:38
Speaker 1: and let's go fix it. The other thing you learn
6:41
Speaker 1: is how to ask for what you want, because you
6:44
Speaker 1: never meet with the customer and they just say, oh,
6:47
Speaker 1: you haven't asked for an order, but let me just
6:49
Speaker 1: offer to buy whatever you have to sell right. That
6:52
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. You have to actually ask for the order. Well,
6:55
Speaker 1: in learning how to ask for the order, you learn
6:57
Speaker 1: how to ask for anything right, which is something you
7:01
Speaker 1: need to do all the way through your career. You
7:03
Speaker 1: learn how to read a room and understand where the
7:07
Speaker 1: power lies. You learn how to create win win situations
7:12
Speaker 1: where everybody gets what they want after you negotiate. You
7:16
Speaker 1: learn how to communicate effectively and concisely. Because people don't
7:20
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of time for you, but what
7:22
Speaker 1: you learn in sales, frankly, can support you in anything
7:27
Speaker 1: you do. I tell people all the time, I think
7:29
Speaker 1: everyone should do a stint in sales, because you learn
7:33
Speaker 1: so much that you'll be able to leverage no matter
7:36
Speaker 1: what it is you want to do in your career.
7:38
Speaker 2: I want to double down on this sales experience that
7:41
Speaker 2: you had, which specifically you said that's where you really
7:43
Speaker 2: learned about how to get comfortable with the nose and
7:46
Speaker 2: the rejection, because I imagine that that is something that
7:50
Speaker 2: people feel very unhappy about, very uncomfortable, and most of all,
7:55
Speaker 2: very dejected when they're told. So I want to understand
7:58
Speaker 2: how did you get so comfortable with the no. Was
8:00
Speaker 2: it always like boom, I'm okay, or was it like
8:03
Speaker 2: a learning process?
8:05
Speaker 1: Totally learning process. I mean the first time you get
8:07
Speaker 1: to know, you think, oh, you're totally deflated. You feel
8:11
Speaker 1: like a failure, right, I mean the whole bit. But
8:14
Speaker 1: the key is you got to go find something else.
8:17
Speaker 1: You build a habit, you build the courage, because what
8:20
Speaker 1: you learn is yes, I got that no, but it
8:23
Speaker 1: didn't actually kill me, right, I didn't get fired. None
8:28
Speaker 1: of that happened. So therefore, okay, maybe it's not too bad.
8:33
Speaker 1: But I will tell you, even after years of experience
8:36
Speaker 1: being a salesperson, I did have one loss that literally
8:40
Speaker 1: felt like, oh my gosh, my career's over. Tell us
8:43
Speaker 1: about it. So Rite Aid Corporation, the big drug store chain.
8:47
Speaker 1: They were a lot bigger long time ago. They were
8:50
Speaker 1: my client at the time. They had man, i don't know,
8:52
Speaker 1: two thousand stores and I'd been selling for eighteen months
8:56
Speaker 1: trying to get IBM point of sale equipment and all
8:59
Speaker 1: those stores. And I'd be equipment in their store back
9:02
Speaker 1: office and then obviously corporate headquarters to support it. You know,
9:05
Speaker 1: the whole bit. We got in the back office now
9:07
Speaker 1: we're working at point of sale. We won the deal.
9:10
Speaker 1: I mean, Jessica, this was like tens of millions of
9:13
Speaker 1: dollars multi year. My boss was a hero. His boss
9:17
Speaker 1: was a hero. I was going to kill my number,
9:19
Speaker 1: He's going to kill as number. I mean, he's all
9:20
Speaker 1: great until the CEO calls me into his office. Everything's
9:26
Speaker 1: on order and says to me, Shelley, we've been thinking
9:30
Speaker 1: about this and given that we're going to spend so
9:32
Speaker 1: much money in point of sale, we decided we're just
9:35
Speaker 1: going to invest in a point of sale company. What
9:40
Speaker 1: there is like no comeback from that. I mean, I
9:43
Speaker 1: don't have a company to sell him, right, I mean,
9:46
Speaker 1: I'm just like, what, So now I have to go
9:50
Speaker 1: back and I have to tell everyone that this deal
9:53
Speaker 1: that everybody thinks is done, the equipment's on order, that
9:56
Speaker 1: they're canceling. It was awful. It's definitely one of the
9:59
Speaker 1: worst situations I faced in the first twenty years of
10:04
Speaker 1: my career.
10:05
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine the magnitude of that call from
10:09
Speaker 2: the CEO. Where to your point, time, resources, investments, even excitement,
10:15
Speaker 2: probably like we got this deal and suddenly it just
10:19
Speaker 2: pulled away. I'm curious. What was the reaction like from
10:22
Speaker 2: your team after this happened.
10:25
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it was like somebody had literally died. Oh, Shelley,
10:30
Speaker 1: I heard right. People would say, oh, you know, they're whispering.
10:33
Speaker 1: I'm getting calls. Everybody wants lost reviews at all the levels,
10:36
Speaker 1: and I want this and that. I come home from
10:38
Speaker 1: work three days after all this happened and my late
10:41
Speaker 1: husband says to me, so, how was your day? And
10:43
Speaker 1: I'm like, how do you think my day was? And
10:45
Speaker 1: he looks at me and he says, Shelley, the morning
10:48
Speaker 1: period is over. He said, you are the same person
10:51
Speaker 1: you were four days ago before you got this news.
10:54
Speaker 1: This doesn't define you. Go find something else to sell.
10:58
Speaker 1: And you know what, he was right. It was the
10:59
Speaker 1: kick in the pants that I needed to realize that
11:03
Speaker 1: a failure only defines you if you let it. If
11:07
Speaker 1: you learn from it and move on, it just becomes
11:10
Speaker 1: a learning experience.
11:12
Speaker 2: So then the question is, because doing a deal like
11:14
Speaker 2: this is never something that only one person does, how
11:17
Speaker 2: did you then communicate this to your team right? Because
11:20
Speaker 2: I'm imagining you felt so terrible and now leading them
11:24
Speaker 2: through this process of Okay, this deal didn't come through.
11:28
Speaker 2: Now we have to think about what's next. How did
11:30
Speaker 2: you communicate that part?
11:31
Speaker 1: The first was to come in and tell them and
11:34
Speaker 1: tell them honestly, there was nothing we could have done differently,
11:38
Speaker 1: and there wasn't. It wasn't like we lost to a competitor.
11:41
Speaker 1: It wasn't like they were going to go build it themselves.
11:45
Speaker 1: We didn't have what they needed to buy, which they
11:48
Speaker 1: decided they wanted to buy a company. We didn't have that.
11:51
Speaker 1: So the first thing is letting them off the hook
11:54
Speaker 1: in terms of your fault. But you have to spend
11:56
Speaker 1: time and actually wallow and how you feel initially in
12:00
Speaker 1: order to get through it, because if you just suppress it,
12:01
Speaker 1: it's going to come out later anyway. But then it's
12:04
Speaker 1: you know, as my thing husband says that it's all right. Now,
12:06
Speaker 1: we got to find something else to sell. We still
12:08
Speaker 1: have a quota to make, We've still got numbers to
12:10
Speaker 1: go after, right, and we've got to go do this.
12:13
Speaker 1: And even if I didn't feel positive and motivated, I
12:18
Speaker 1: needed to demonstrate that anyway, because everybody was going to
12:22
Speaker 1: take their cue based upon how I behaved.
12:26
Speaker 2: So what were the cues that you had to give
12:28
Speaker 2: your team, Like how did you show up in that
12:30
Speaker 2: way to make them feel like it's okay, we got this.
12:32
Speaker 2: When everyone's feeling demoralized, you have.
12:35
Speaker 1: To give them another thing to focus on. So it
12:38
Speaker 1: was okay, pull out there. We always did these planning
12:41
Speaker 1: sessions the beginning over a year of all the different
12:43
Speaker 1: kinds of opportunities and what we're going after. So it's
12:46
Speaker 1: pulling it out again to say, okay, now we've got
12:48
Speaker 1: to basically double down on numbers two, four, five kind
12:52
Speaker 1: of thing and go after that. And also being active
12:56
Speaker 1: and busy really helps. So it was all right, here
13:00
Speaker 1: are the other opportunities. Let's build the game plan, our
13:03
Speaker 1: strategy for how we're going to go after the sales campaign.
13:05
Speaker 1: Let's figure out who we're talking to. It's getting people
13:08
Speaker 1: active again and focused on something new. Those are ways
13:13
Speaker 1: to help shift the overall narrative. I love it.
13:16
Speaker 2: I think I read a quote here and I have
13:17
Speaker 2: it pulled up. You only become a failure if you
13:20
Speaker 2: don't learn and.
13:21
Speaker 1: Move on, absolutely right, Absolutely right.
13:25
Speaker 2: So let's move over to you been working in sales,
13:29
Speaker 2: then how do you get into a CEO role?
13:31
Speaker 1: Eventually? Oh? I just notped my fingers, of course, right.
13:35
Speaker 1: So then it was working to get more and more responsibility.
13:40
Speaker 1: It was paying attention to what others ahead of me did,
13:44
Speaker 1: what experiences people had, so that I knew which ones
13:47
Speaker 1: to go after. So I'll give you an example. I'm
13:51
Speaker 1: at IBM still and I am now just on the
13:55
Speaker 1: cusp of the executive role. But I'm listening and I'm watching,
13:59
Speaker 1: and I did the research. And the people who directly
14:02
Speaker 1: report to the CEO, everyone in a line job had
14:05
Speaker 1: international experience, but more than that, most of them had
14:09
Speaker 1: spent time in Japan. Japan was the headquarters for Asia Pacific.
14:13
Speaker 1: So I just started incorporating as kind of an oh,
14:16
Speaker 1: by the way, when things would come up or things
14:18
Speaker 1: would happen with people, I would just mention that, you know,
14:20
Speaker 1: one day I'd love an opportunity in Japan. Well fast forward,
14:24
Speaker 1: I'm now an executive and it's probably about two and
14:27
Speaker 1: a half years later, and I get a call Tim,
14:29
Speaker 1: a Christian. Tim says, Shelley, I remember once you said
14:32
Speaker 1: you were interested in going to Japan. Are you still interested?
14:35
Speaker 1: I said absolutely. He goes, I've got a job that
14:38
Speaker 1: I think he could do. He put my name forward.
14:41
Speaker 1: I got the job and moved to Japan. I was
14:44
Speaker 1: super intentional about trying to understand what jobs, what experiences,
14:49
Speaker 1: what skills were valued and required every step of the
14:53
Speaker 1: way as I moved up, so that by the time
14:55
Speaker 1: I was ready to compete, I had what was necessary.
14:58
Speaker 2: What I find so interesting about even just your description
15:01
Speaker 2: of this is like you were so clear minded in
15:04
Speaker 2: your approach. You kind of looked at where you wanted
15:07
Speaker 2: to go, and then you kind of moved backwards in
15:10
Speaker 2: terms of how can I get there? And for you,
15:13
Speaker 2: it was the apac experience that you realize, oh, I
15:15
Speaker 2: probably need something like that under my belt for me
15:17
Speaker 2: to be qualified for that next big jump.
15:20
Speaker 1: Right.
15:20
Speaker 2: But the second point that you said was making sure
15:23
Speaker 2: people knew this was something that you wanted. I think
15:25
Speaker 2: there's a study that says like someone needs to hear
15:27
Speaker 2: something seven times for them to remembering. And you were like,
15:31
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make darn sure people know I want to
15:34
Speaker 2: go to Japan.
15:35
Speaker 1: That's right. And it worked. I mean it happened. Yeah.
15:38
Speaker 1: I didn't know who that I told rite that woever
15:41
Speaker 1: effect or impact or anything. I had no idea. So
15:43
Speaker 1: you got to cast a wide knit.
15:45
Speaker 2: Okay, so you did your stit in Japan. You got
15:48
Speaker 2: the experience and then what happened?
15:50
Speaker 1: So here I meant Japan and my boss is John Joyce.
15:54
Speaker 1: He reports directly to the CEO, lu Gerstar. So I'm
15:57
Speaker 1: two stepped. I've done well. There wasn't anyone hiring the
15:59
Speaker 1: company that looks like me, and I should have felt great,
16:04
Speaker 1: but I didn't. I'll just give you one example. I
16:06
Speaker 1: just felt it kept getting little slights. So Lugershna came
16:09
Speaker 1: to Asia Pacific and I found out afterwards that he
16:13
Speaker 1: met with a few of my peers one on one,
16:15
Speaker 1: but not me. Now I was upset. I thought about it.
16:19
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, if I were really on
16:21
Speaker 1: the track to compete for the CEO job here, would
16:24
Speaker 1: that really have happened? Probably not. So maybe I'm not
16:29
Speaker 1: really on track to be considered for CEO. Wow, That'd
16:34
Speaker 1: been my goal since I joined IBM. This was like
16:36
Speaker 1: fourteen years of working kind of up through the ranks.
16:39
Speaker 1: I still want to be CEO, but maybe it's not here.
16:43
Speaker 1: So that's when I decided I was going to leave
16:45
Speaker 1: IBM and look for a path to CEO outside of IBM.
16:49
Speaker 1: And that was probably the hardest professional decision I ever
16:53
Speaker 1: made because I had moved around. Oh my gosh, I
16:56
Speaker 1: move probably I don't know five six times at least
17:00
Speaker 1: with IBM. My friends therefore were mainly IBMS and my
17:05
Speaker 1: late husband I met him at IBM. I mean, if
17:07
Speaker 1: you cut me, I bled IBM blue. But my goal
17:11
Speaker 1: and my intention was stronger than that. I'm like, nope,
17:14
Speaker 1: I want to be CEO. So that's when I decided
17:18
Speaker 1: to leave and pay attention to opportunities that were coming
17:20
Speaker 1: my way. And I did the research. It turns out, Jessica,
17:23
Speaker 1: a lot of people who go from big companies to
17:25
Speaker 1: small companies, they stumble a time or two because it's
17:27
Speaker 1: so different. And as a minority female, I don't get
17:31
Speaker 1: that many strikes at bad. So again, how do you
17:34
Speaker 1: improve your odds? So I said, let me go get
17:36
Speaker 1: seat at the table jobs, meaning I report to the CEO,
17:39
Speaker 1: I present to the board, understand what's so different, and
17:42
Speaker 1: then go after the CEO job. And so that's what
17:44
Speaker 1: I did. And so where did you land from IBM?
17:47
Speaker 1: I was hired by Blockbuster. You might be too young
17:50
Speaker 1: to remember Blockbuster, but blockbusterever.
17:53
Speaker 2: Blockbuster that was always like our Saturday there you go,
17:56
Speaker 2: there you go.
17:56
Speaker 1: I was hired to build out Blockbuster dot com. Because
18:00
Speaker 1: this is now the late nineties, Blockbuster didn't really have
18:02
Speaker 1: a dot com presence, they knew they needed one. I
18:05
Speaker 1: got to know Reid hay stinks because at the time
18:07
Speaker 1: Netflix was a fledgling startup trying to get built. So
18:10
Speaker 1: he came out pitched a Blockbuster. My boss, well, why
18:13
Speaker 1: don't we take the two, combine them, spit it out,
18:15
Speaker 1: and go conquer the world. But my boss passed said no,
18:19
Speaker 1: if that ever turns into ay thing, we'll just buy it.
18:22
Speaker 1: It's like okay. So I came home I told my husband,
18:27
Speaker 1: I know, we just moved to Dallas from Japan for
18:29
Speaker 1: this job like seven months ago, but I don't think
18:33
Speaker 1: this is the right long term fit. So anyway, after
18:37
Speaker 1: exactly a year, I took an opportunity to get to
18:40
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley and there I was achieved marketing officer and
18:43
Speaker 1: EVP of sales for two newly public companies, and then
18:48
Speaker 1: got the opportunity to get my CEO job.
18:53
Speaker 2: We have to take a short break, but when we
18:55
Speaker 2: come back, our guest and former Tech CEO, Shelley Arshamba
19:00
Speaker 2: opens up about one of the toughest leadership challenges she
19:04
Speaker 2: ever faced, one that put the survival of her company
19:07
Speaker 2: at stake. Stay with us, Welcome back to leading by example.
19:19
Speaker 2: Our guest is former tech exec and author Shelley Orshambeau. Okay, Shelly,
19:25
Speaker 2: as you're describing your career, one of the words that
19:28
Speaker 2: came to mind is intentional. I think some people say
19:32
Speaker 2: they spend more time planning a vacation than really planning
19:35
Speaker 2: the trajectory of their career.
19:36
Speaker 1: I say that all the time. I say that all
19:38
Speaker 1: the time, and it's true.
19:40
Speaker 2: So how do you feel like planning your career like
19:43
Speaker 2: this helps you develop yourself as a leader.
19:46
Speaker 1: So a couple things. By being intentional means you always
19:49
Speaker 1: have a vision for where you're going. Well, in business,
19:52
Speaker 1: every company, every division, every team needs to have a
19:57
Speaker 1: vision for where they're going. So the way I handle
20:00
Speaker 1: this personally is the same way I handle it in business.
20:02
Speaker 1: So therefore people view me as of being an inspirational
20:05
Speaker 1: leader because I always paint here is where we're going,
20:08
Speaker 1: and then we work on how we're going to get there,
20:10
Speaker 1: because we've got to have the plan. To me, you
20:11
Speaker 1: set a goal. Once we know the goal, we ask ourselves.
20:15
Speaker 1: What has to be true for me to achieve the goal,
20:18
Speaker 1: because that's what I ask personally. But it has to
20:19
Speaker 1: be true. Well, you have to do some research to
20:22
Speaker 1: figure that out. But once you do the research and
20:23
Speaker 1: you figure it out, you say, great, now how do
20:26
Speaker 1: we make it true? And making it true is the plan,
20:30
Speaker 1: and then you go execute the plan. So with teams,
20:33
Speaker 1: people line up with that. It's like, Oh, I get it.
20:35
Speaker 1: Here's what we're trying to do. Here's what we have
20:37
Speaker 1: to do because that's what the research says we need
20:40
Speaker 1: to go do. Here's the plan. Everybody's got a role,
20:42
Speaker 1: and then we celebrate and acknowledge every step of the way.
20:45
Speaker 1: But we're all part of a team moving in the
20:47
Speaker 1: same direction. I love that.
20:48
Speaker 2: So that philosophy and that approach is both personal and
20:52
Speaker 2: the way you lead others as well.
20:54
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know, people talk about work life balance like
20:57
Speaker 1: it's two separate things, and honestly, I hate the term
21:00
Speaker 1: because I don't think they're two separate things. And I
21:02
Speaker 1: also don't think you should keep things quote even all
21:04
Speaker 1: the time, which is what Balin says. And the reason
21:07
Speaker 1: is I leverage skills that I've learned as a mom
21:12
Speaker 1: in business, and I leverage skills that I learned in
21:14
Speaker 1: business at home. I mean, the whole notion of delegation,
21:19
Speaker 1: that's something you kind of learn at work. Well, it
21:22
Speaker 1: works great at home. You know, five year olds can
21:26
Speaker 1: separate laundry, they know their colors. Okay, everybody can participate.
21:30
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's why I think this whole concept of
21:33
Speaker 1: having two lives it's crazy. No, no, no, have one
21:35
Speaker 1: way to approach life and just bring it to work
21:37
Speaker 1: and bring it home.
21:39
Speaker 2: All right, So let's now talk about your time at
21:42
Speaker 2: Metric Stream. You did a lot of amazing work there,
21:44
Speaker 2: so tell us about your time there, but particularly the
21:47
Speaker 2: moment when the recession hits.
21:49
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, because when the.
21:50
Speaker 2: Two thousand and eight recession hit, I can't even imagine
21:52
Speaker 2: how challenging that was.
21:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. So first of all, just a bit of backdrop.
21:58
Speaker 1: When I was hired to be CEO of the company,
22:00
Speaker 1: I knew it was a broken company. This was a
22:02
Speaker 1: company that definitely needed to turn around. Many of the
22:04
Speaker 1: investors had given up on the company. I knew that.
22:07
Speaker 1: Now when I got in, it was even worse than
22:09
Speaker 1: I thought. But that's the way it goes. But the
22:12
Speaker 1: good news is after years of work doing a merger,
22:16
Speaker 1: doing the whole bit. In the beginning of two thousand
22:18
Speaker 1: and eight, we had defined a category that we called
22:21
Speaker 1: comprehensive compliance and Risk. Then Gartner comes out and says,
22:26
Speaker 1: there's a brand new category and it's called governance, risk
22:29
Speaker 1: and compliance software and metric Stream is a leader. So
22:35
Speaker 1: first half of two thousand and eight it came out
22:36
Speaker 1: like it really first quarter, right, We're like, great, now's
22:39
Speaker 1: the time. Now we can invest in sales, we can
22:41
Speaker 1: invest in delivery, and on our growth trajectory, we will
22:44
Speaker 1: raise money in two thousand and nine. That was the plan.
22:47
Speaker 1: So we're feeling great, We're going to the races, and
22:49
Speaker 1: then September comes and everything stops. The financial crisis hits.
22:58
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Well, now we've spent our money. Remember
23:01
Speaker 1: I said we invested for the growth. So now we
23:04
Speaker 1: squeak into two thousand and nine and not only is
23:07
Speaker 1: it a terrible recession, but we don't have many money.
23:10
Speaker 1: So the question was do we fold where do we fight?
23:14
Speaker 1: And that's the question we had as the leadership team.
23:17
Speaker 1: If we fight, it's going to be hard. And to
23:20
Speaker 1: the credit of my team, we all said, you know
23:22
Speaker 1: what we're going to fight, and literally it was the
23:25
Speaker 1: hardest probably eighteen months of my life. There were many
23:29
Speaker 1: a Thursday that I went to bed not sure that
23:31
Speaker 1: we were going to make Friday payroll. But you know what,
23:34
Speaker 1: we grew in two thousand and nine, and we grew
23:37
Speaker 1: in twenty ten, and we grew in twenty eleven, and
23:40
Speaker 1: we ended up building a global market leader in governance,
23:43
Speaker 1: risk and compliance. It was an incredible, incredible journey with
23:47
Speaker 1: an amazing team.
23:49
Speaker 2: That story tells me so much about the leadership decision
23:53
Speaker 2: and as a leadership team, you guys were like, no,
23:55
Speaker 2: we're going to fight this and we're going to try
23:57
Speaker 2: to make it through.
23:58
Speaker 1: So then my question is, during time like.
24:00
Speaker 2: This where you have no idea how you're going to
24:02
Speaker 2: make payroll, how important is being present and showing up
24:07
Speaker 2: for your team?
24:09
Speaker 1: It's huge And I learned that first. Dan and I
24:11
Speaker 1: had a boss once that anytime anything was going off
24:14
Speaker 1: the rails, you couldn't find her. It was like, okay,
24:20
Speaker 1: So being present is super important because your team gets
24:24
Speaker 1: their courage from you, and they also have to see
24:28
Speaker 1: what you're willing to do.
24:30
Speaker 2: How do you know when you just have to make
24:33
Speaker 2: a decision, or do we just kind of figure it out,
24:36
Speaker 2: like waiting for more information before we make such a
24:39
Speaker 2: big decision. How do you make that judgment call?
24:42
Speaker 1: This is another one that I've learned, which is eighty
24:46
Speaker 1: percent good and fast beats one hundred percent perfect and slow.
24:51
Speaker 1: Every day of the week. You can always course correct.
24:56
Speaker 1: But when you delay and delay a decision, you are
24:59
Speaker 1: freezing the entire higher organization that's waiting to figure out
25:02
Speaker 1: which direction you're going in. And even though you don't
25:05
Speaker 1: realize you're freezing the organization, you are so especially when
25:11
Speaker 1: you have a small, young business, everybody is working so
25:15
Speaker 1: hard that if you do anything that slows or stalls,
25:18
Speaker 1: you basically risk your steals getting done, You risk investments
25:22
Speaker 1: being made, You risk all kinds of things. So my
25:26
Speaker 1: whole thing was always trying to get not perfect information,
25:30
Speaker 1: but enough where I'm like, am I capable of taking
25:32
Speaker 1: the risk? And can we at least set some metrics
25:36
Speaker 1: or some data points that tell us if we're on
25:38
Speaker 1: track off tracks so we can pivot. Much better to
25:41
Speaker 1: make the wrong decision fast and then pivot than it
25:45
Speaker 1: is to make the right decision two months later, because
25:48
Speaker 1: the world could have changed, anything could have happened. And
25:51
Speaker 1: I learned this early. Again, what do you learn in
25:53
Speaker 1: sales at a senior sales position? And I'd moved, so
25:57
Speaker 1: this is a new location, new customer set. With the
26:00
Speaker 1: customer uncovered an opportunity. I wanted to make sure, since
26:03
Speaker 1: I was making a first impression, that this proposal was
26:06
Speaker 1: perfect perfect, So I did the work, figured out what
26:09
Speaker 1: we should recommend. I then put prosal together. I then
26:11
Speaker 1: had my boss look at it, right, I tweaked it
26:13
Speaker 1: some more. I'm feeling really good. I finally call him
26:15
Speaker 1: up to make the appointment to come back and meet him.
26:17
Speaker 1: I go and meet him, give him the pitch, and
26:19
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, Shelly, this is great chost justification, the
26:22
Speaker 1: whole bit. I just wish I had this two days
26:24
Speaker 1: earlier because I just got a budget cut. Yesterday, I
26:28
Speaker 1: got no sale. Now two days earlier. Was it good enough? Yeah?
26:32
Speaker 1: It was good enough. So I learned that early eighty
26:36
Speaker 1: percent good and fast. It's one hundred percent slow every
26:39
Speaker 1: day of the week.
26:40
Speaker 2: That is so good. I feel like so many people
26:43
Speaker 2: overthink it has to be perfection before they deliver, but
26:46
Speaker 2: actually it's better you go now and then you can
26:49
Speaker 2: course correct as you go. Just like you said, I
26:52
Speaker 2: want to talk about now what you do you serve
26:54
Speaker 2: on multiple boards at Fortune five, at your companies, what
26:57
Speaker 2: an experience? And of course now you have this nonprofit,
27:01
Speaker 2: what do you see are some gaps in corporate leadership
27:04
Speaker 2: that made you actually want to start your nonprofit? Ignite ambition?
27:09
Speaker 1: Well, a unite ambition is really focused on what I
27:12
Speaker 1: call the mighty middle. Companies these days tend to start
27:17
Speaker 1: focusing on developing, I mean truly developing their people when
27:21
Speaker 1: they think they have executive leadership potential. Right, Well, there's
27:26
Speaker 1: a lot of people and there's a lot of time
27:28
Speaker 1: before that that if they had development and growth, could
27:32
Speaker 1: probably then do better. So there is so much to
27:35
Speaker 1: being successful and at getting to achieve your aspirations that
27:40
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with delivering on your objectives, that
27:43
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with do you actually make and
27:47
Speaker 1: keep your commitments, but have everything to do with things
27:50
Speaker 1: like executive presence, ability to communicate, ability to network effectively.
27:57
Speaker 1: You know, there's all these other skills that are just
28:00
Speaker 1: as important to build the roundedness that there's not a
28:05
Speaker 1: lot of places within companies that they actually teach these
28:07
Speaker 1: things and I personally feel there is so much wasted
28:12
Speaker 1: talent out there because what happens is people hit a
28:15
Speaker 1: roadblock or a hurdle, they're not sure how to deal
28:17
Speaker 1: with it, they may not deal with it properly, whatever,
28:19
Speaker 1: and it either derails them or slows them down or
28:22
Speaker 1: they get stuck. Well, I'm trying to help those people
28:25
Speaker 1: because frankly, those things that happen, there are ways to
28:28
Speaker 1: get through them, waste to get over them, waste to
28:30
Speaker 1: work around it, and so through ignite ambition, I'm trying
28:34
Speaker 1: to share in a scaled way all these tips and
28:37
Speaker 1: techniques to help you actually go after your ambitions and
28:41
Speaker 1: make things happen by learning how. So we provide cohorts
28:45
Speaker 1: that actually train on some of these things. We just
28:48
Speaker 1: had one how to tell your story right. People do
28:51
Speaker 1: a terrible job of introducing themselves, so it's a wasted
28:54
Speaker 1: opportunity every time. Learn how to tell your story so
28:57
Speaker 1: when you say who you are in a very period.
29:00
Speaker 1: Tip people to actually know what your skill sets are,
29:01
Speaker 1: which're capable of all those things. We've done one on,
29:05
Speaker 1: like I said, improving executive presence. We've done one even
29:07
Speaker 1: on fiscal how to manage your money, so you have flexibility.
29:11
Speaker 1: So we have those, but then we also have sessions
29:13
Speaker 1: where we bring in senior executives and I make them available.
29:16
Speaker 1: Everything's virtual, make them available for Q and A. You know,
29:19
Speaker 1: ask a few questions to get it going, but give
29:20
Speaker 1: people a chance to actually ask CFOs questions, CEOs questions
29:24
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't normally have a chance. And then I
29:27
Speaker 1: personally don't ask me anything where once a month, anything
29:30
Speaker 1: that you're dealing with, you know, work at home, whatever,
29:32
Speaker 1: you can come and get my perspective. I may not
29:34
Speaker 1: always have the answer, but I'm happy to share a perspective.
29:37
Speaker 1: So those are some of the things that we do,
29:39
Speaker 1: and then we encourage the community to support each other.
29:41
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm trying to do with Ignite Ambition.
29:44
Speaker 1: I want more people to be able to achieve their aspirations,
29:48
Speaker 1: no matter what they're pursuing, whether they're going nonprofit or
29:51
Speaker 1: their startups, or they're in corporate America.
29:53
Speaker 2: This really hits home because we also do a lot
29:56
Speaker 2: of leadership development training and I often feel like, you know,
29:59
Speaker 2: when you look at people or in this mid level manager,
30:01
Speaker 2: it's not that they lack ambition. I think a lot
30:04
Speaker 2: of people naturally are very ambitious. But why do people
30:06
Speaker 2: burn out? They burn out because they're working so hard,
30:09
Speaker 2: but they're not getting that recognition correct and then so
30:12
Speaker 2: they go why even bother right? And then they stop.
30:15
Speaker 2: And So to the point of this training you know
30:17
Speaker 2: that you now do with your nonprofit. I think it's
30:19
Speaker 2: so important because you're letting them know you have the
30:22
Speaker 2: technical know how. But let's think about sharpening it a
30:26
Speaker 2: little bit by adding the executive presence, the storytelling, the
30:29
Speaker 2: how do you introduce yourself? Because that's how you can
30:32
Speaker 2: really package yourself to your point of showing up right,
30:35
Speaker 2: because impressions really are so important. Absolutely, So as we
30:39
Speaker 2: close here, we always like to ask our guests this
30:41
Speaker 2: one question. What does leading by example mean to you?
30:45
Speaker 1: Leading by example means being authentic. It is walking the talk,
30:50
Speaker 1: whatever your beliefs are, whatever your core meaning is that
30:55
Speaker 1: you're consistent with it when you lead.
30:58
Speaker 2: So, Shelley, I'd love for people to be able to
31:00
Speaker 2: find you and get in contact with you. What's the
31:02
Speaker 2: best way for them to learn more about you and
31:05
Speaker 2: get access to your.
31:06
Speaker 1: Book Shelley dot com And it is literally sach l
31:09
Speaker 1: l Ye dot com. You can find Ignite Ambition. You
31:13
Speaker 1: can find information about my book and Apologetically Ambitious, which
31:16
Speaker 1: is available on Amazon or any place that you like
31:19
Speaker 1: to shop, and you can also follow me on LinkedIn.
31:22
Speaker 1: I'm very active. I always try to share inspirational leadership
31:25
Speaker 1: messages because I'm just trying to help others achieve their
31:29
Speaker 1: overall ambitions. I love that.
31:31
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Shelley, Thank you. Wasn't that such
31:39
Speaker 2: a great interview with Shelley? I walked away with so
31:42
Speaker 2: much great insight, And after our conversation, I started reflecting
31:46
Speaker 2: on what really stood out to me, and this was
31:48
Speaker 2: the first one. No doesn't mean no, It just means
31:52
Speaker 2: something isn't right. A lot of times, when we put
31:56
Speaker 2: ourselves out there and we ask for what we want
31:59
Speaker 2: and we get told to no, we have to think
32:01
Speaker 2: about it as maybe it was the timing. Maybe the
32:06
Speaker 2: value we're proposing just isn't landing the way it should,
32:11
Speaker 2: and here's something important. A lot of times we might
32:14
Speaker 2: not even get that explicit no. Instead we might get ignored.
32:19
Speaker 2: People don't respond to us, and honestly, that can sting
32:23
Speaker 2: equally as much now for a lot of us, hardworking,
32:27
Speaker 2: ambitious professionals when we put ourselves out there. It's because
32:31
Speaker 2: we care deeply about it and it is easy to
32:34
Speaker 2: take it personally. But the one reframe I learned here
32:37
Speaker 2: is no is never a reflection of our ideas. It
32:41
Speaker 2: just means that you might need to redirect your ask,
32:44
Speaker 2: so it lands differently. In my book, Smart Not Loud,
32:49
Speaker 2: I talk about how getting comfortable with following up is
32:52
Speaker 2: actually part of the process of getting what you want,
32:56
Speaker 2: and the simplest way to follow this is to go
32:59
Speaker 2: about it by offering something new in your follow up.
33:03
Speaker 2: And it's as simple as saying, since my last email,
33:07
Speaker 2: I found some new data I'd love to share with you.
33:11
Speaker 2: Just even that one shift suddenly makes your follow up
33:15
Speaker 2: feel less pushy, and it actually re engages the conversation.
33:20
Speaker 2: Here's a second tip. She said, eighty percent good and
33:24
Speaker 2: fast beats one hundred percent perfect and slow every time.
33:29
Speaker 2: This one really landed for me because Shelley also backed
33:33
Speaker 2: it up with this real story of how she was
33:35
Speaker 2: working on this project and she was spending a lot
33:38
Speaker 2: of time doing it to really just perfect it, and
33:42
Speaker 2: suddenly she turned it in and her boss comes back
33:45
Speaker 2: by saying, gosh, I wish you brought this to me
33:48
Speaker 2: two days earlier, because now we don't have the budget.
33:51
Speaker 2: Can't you just imagine that conversation vividly in your own mind,
33:55
Speaker 2: like I certainly can, and I think for a lot
33:57
Speaker 2: of us we might struggle with this sense of it
34:00
Speaker 2: has to be perfect, and we do it as a
34:03
Speaker 2: way to almost protect ourselves because we do want to
34:06
Speaker 2: give the best work and you know, going back to
34:09
Speaker 2: the no, we don't want to get rejected. But what
34:12
Speaker 2: I think is really important here is sometimes that perfectionism
34:16
Speaker 2: can actually be a risk. It can be a risk
34:20
Speaker 2: because what we are actually doing is not allowing ourselves
34:24
Speaker 2: the opportunity to actually capture the timing, to capture the
34:28
Speaker 2: moment where we can get that yes and truth. Is
34:32
Speaker 2: a lot of times things don't even have to be
34:34
Speaker 2: one hundred percent perfect. You hit that send, you hit
34:38
Speaker 2: that publish, and it's when things are live then you
34:42
Speaker 2: can start to reiterate on it and perfect it. The
34:45
Speaker 2: third point was your team gets their courage from you.
34:50
Speaker 2: This basically means in times of uncertainty and a lot
34:53
Speaker 2: of anxiety, the way you, as a leader carry yourself
34:58
Speaker 2: has a lot of sway in the world your team
35:00
Speaker 2: is going to handle themselves in that moment. Science actually
35:04
Speaker 2: backs us up. Research from more in business school studied
35:08
Speaker 2: what they call emotional contagion, and it's the phenomenon where
35:12
Speaker 2: emotions spread from one person to another, often completely unconsciously.
35:18
Speaker 2: Now this is important because in times of uncertainty, people
35:23
Speaker 2: are looking to their leaders. They're gauging their emotions, and
35:28
Speaker 2: leaders have a strong influence on the mood and the
35:32
Speaker 2: attitudes and the performance of their team in times of uncertainty.
35:37
Speaker 2: As a leader, your ability to just step up becomes
35:40
Speaker 2: even more important. And making sure all the cues you're
35:43
Speaker 2: giving to your team and how they should be thinking
35:46
Speaker 2: about their work. You, as a leader, actually have a
35:49
Speaker 2: lot of influence in what that looks like. So want
35:55
Speaker 2: to give Shelley a big thank you for joining us.
35:58
Speaker 2: I really enjoy this conversation. And to all of you
36:01
Speaker 2: who are listening. If you enjoyed this episode, or you
36:04
Speaker 2: have feedback on what you want to hear and guests
36:07
Speaker 2: you'd like to hear from, please rate and review leading
36:10
Speaker 2: by example. Every review, every rating really does help us
36:14
Speaker 2: reach more people and make this show the best it
36:17
Speaker 2: can be. I'm Jessica Chen, the author of Smart Not Loud.
36:21
Speaker 2: How to get noticed at work for all the right reasons.
36:24
Speaker 2: The CEO of Soulcast Media, a communications training company, and
36:28
Speaker 2: for more information about me and what I do, head
36:31
Speaker 2: over to our website Soulcastmedia dot com or add me
36:34
Speaker 2: on LinkedIn and Instagram. A huge thank you to our
36:38
Speaker 2: production team at Ruby Studio, especially Kelly, Kyle, Matt Stillo
36:42
Speaker 2: and Sierra Spring. We'll be back in two weeks with
36:45
Speaker 2: another episode of Leading by Example. I'll see you then,