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Dr Henry Mack, New Florida Commissioner of Education Joins Preston · Conversations: Special Guests with Preston Scott

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right.
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  Speaker 2: Our guest is is doctor Henry Mack. He's been nominated
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: to be the next Commissioner of Education for the Sunshine State.
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  Speaker 2: Doctor Mack, welcome to the program. How are you, sir,
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  Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
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  Speaker 1: I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for having me my pleasure.
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  Speaker 2: Now, you are currently serving as US Assistant Secretary of Labor.
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  Speaker 2: What is it about this position that appeals to you?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, First of all, all gratitude and shout out to
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  Speaker 1: the President of the United States, who's crushing it on
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  Speaker 1: all levels. At the US Department of Labor, we're hyper
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  Speaker 1: focused on putting American workers first, bringing back manufacturing, reindustrial
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  Speaker 1: reindustrializing the nation, and doing everything we can to reshore
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  Speaker 1: jobs so that we can provide pathways to prosperity for
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  Speaker 1: every American worker wherever they are right and so the
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  Speaker 1: idea of coming back to Florida. Florida is my home state.
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  Speaker 1: I have a wife, three kids, ten, eight, and three,
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  Speaker 1: all of whom are in the K twelve public school
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  Speaker 1: system here in Florida. Coming back to Florida to lead education,
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  Speaker 1: to reimagine how we instruct students to do better by
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  Speaker 1: way of parental choice, parental empowerment, and doing everything possible
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  Speaker 1: again on the front end, to provide a meaningful quality
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  Speaker 1: education aligned to a high career pathway. I mean, what
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  Speaker 1: more could I ask for out of a job. In fact,
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  Speaker 1: it's not a job. I think it's a calling. I've
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  Speaker 1: been a faculty member my whole life, and so the
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  Speaker 1: idea of coming back now to the great state of
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  Speaker 1: Florida to lead education it was just too good of
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  Speaker 1: an opportunity to turn down.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, we're clearly fans around here of a
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  Speaker 2: lot of what President Trump is doing. We're huge fans
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  Speaker 2: of Governor desantus fortunate to have the Governor on the
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  Speaker 2: program from time to time. But I'm going to ask
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  Speaker 2: the tough question on the front end, Doctor Mac you
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  Speaker 2: said something I think is interesting there, and you talk
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  Speaker 2: about it being a calling your predecessors, who we had
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  Speaker 2: a great relationship with, And there's nothing critical about this
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  Speaker 2: question as I frame it, But it went on to
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  Speaker 2: be the president of a college or a university here
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  Speaker 2: in Florida, and I think we're being hurt by a
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  Speaker 2: revolving door in the seat that you want to occupy.
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  Speaker 2: Do you want to be the Commissioner of Education for
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  Speaker 2: as long as you can be the commissioner of education. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: or I mean, look, I think that the people of
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  Speaker 2: Florida understand we for all of the good that's in
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  Speaker 2: our state, we have challenges in K twelve. And I
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  Speaker 2: think that while you know, Stosse did a great job
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  Speaker 2: and before him, you know, we've had decent commissioners of education,
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  Speaker 2: but the changeover, I think is hurting us. What about
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  Speaker 2: the longevity in this job for you?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for the great question. I'm in it for
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  Speaker 1: the long haul. Grateful to the governor, grateful to the
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  Speaker 1: state Board. As Florida goes, so goes the nation. And
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  Speaker 1: it's really owed to the governor for setting the vision,
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  Speaker 1: setting the course, charting out everything that we need to
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  Speaker 1: do to become number one in education number one, and
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  Speaker 1: higher ed number one, and workforce at number one and
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  Speaker 1: rental empowerment. You know, it's really thanks to his efforts
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  Speaker 1: and leadership and so building upon that, accelerating it, doubling
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  Speaker 1: down on it, foot on the gas is the way
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  Speaker 1: to go. And that cannot happen. To your point, that
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  Speaker 1: cannot happen without stability, without longevity at the top, without
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  Speaker 1: someone who can help the system, implement, implement, the Great Legislation,
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  Speaker 1: the Great Bills drive reform. But to your point, it
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  Speaker 1: matters for culture, it matters for security, it matters for comfort.
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  Speaker 1: We need a stable leader at the top. And yes,
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  Speaker 1: that's me. I'm very grateful to the State Board of
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  Speaker 1: Education for a multi year contract. I'm not going anywhere.
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  Speaker 1: My family still lives in Tallahassee. Again, they're ten, eight
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  Speaker 1: and three, and so I'm not about to uproot them
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  Speaker 1: to do something else. This is for as not willing,
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  Speaker 1: as long as anybody will have me, you know, the
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  Speaker 1: job for me. So yes, in short, not going anywhere.
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  Speaker 2: Being the sharp radio talk show host that I am.
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  Speaker 2: I noticed he talked to he discussed contracts and tenure
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  Speaker 2: there and so he is our Commission of Education effective Monday.
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  Speaker 2: Monday is his first day on the job. Doctor Henry
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  Speaker 2: Mack with us. Tell me your role as Assistant Secretary
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  Speaker 2: of Labor. I'm curious, where do you see the overlap,
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  Speaker 2: because I know there is one between what you've been
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  Speaker 2: doing and what you will be doing.
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  Speaker 1: Oh that's a great question. So what I've been doing
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  Speaker 1: at the federal level is leading on all things talent development,
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  Speaker 1: workforce training, aligning education to employer demand. We know historically
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  Speaker 1: at the federal and really at the state level too,
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  Speaker 1: maybe with the exception of Florida, there is a bifurcation
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  Speaker 1: between the Commerce Department, the Labor and Department, the Unemployment
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  Speaker 1: Benefits and subsidy departments, and education and training, and the
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  Speaker 1: two need to be one. And so at the federal level,
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  Speaker 1: the President has led on the break down of silos,
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  Speaker 1: restoring education to the states, and so I've been leading
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  Speaker 1: that effort. Within the Department of Labor, there are multiple
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  Speaker 1: sub agencies, largely regulatory and enforcement related OSHA, MSHA, benefits,
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  Speaker 1: workers compensation, unions, etc. However, I led the Employment Training
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  Speaker 1: Administration ETA. It is the principal workforce talent development agency
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  Speaker 1: of the federal government. And so I led the Office
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  Speaker 1: of Apprenticeship, Adult Education, the unemployment Benefits system, and again
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  Speaker 1: doing everything imaginable to get people back to work. But
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  Speaker 1: here's the connection, right, in order to get people back
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  Speaker 1: to work, or in order to upskill, in order to reskill,
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  Speaker 1: in order to accelerate an individual's path to prosperity, they
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  Speaker 1: need education, they need training, they need short term certifications,
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  Speaker 1: they need post secondary And at the federal level, again
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  Speaker 1: I was helping the President deliver on his promise to
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  Speaker 1: restore education to the States.
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  Speaker 2: When you were asked by the governor to take on
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  Speaker 2: this role, what was the first thing that you did
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  Speaker 2: to prepare or to investigate, or to kind of go
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  Speaker 2: through a checklist of what you felt like you needed
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  Speaker 2: to know before you made the decision, or did you
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  Speaker 2: just say sure?
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  Speaker 1: It was frankly the latter one. It was a coming
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  Speaker 1: home moment for me. Prior to serving at the federal level,
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  Speaker 1: I was at the Department of Education here in Florida.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm no stranger certainly to this administration and the
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  Speaker 1: governor and again his exceptional leadership and the team that
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  Speaker 1: he's built around him, and the idea of again coming
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  Speaker 1: home to lead education again. The Commission of Edit in
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  Speaker 1: Florida oversees not just K twelve, but all state colleges,
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  Speaker 1: technical Colleges, Commission for Independent Education, the Office of Apprenticeship,
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  Speaker 1: Vocational Rehabilitation, and blind services for those that are facing challenges, disabilities,
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  Speaker 1: and lived experiences that have otherwise prohibited them from finding
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  Speaker 1: a pathway to prosperity. You know, it was an easy
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  Speaker 1: thing for me. I didn't really you know, thankfully have
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  Speaker 1: to prepare much, you know, sort of a no brainer.
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  Speaker 2: Did you serve with Manny Diaz or when did you
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  Speaker 2: serve in the in the Department of Education?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was in Wave one right after the
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  Speaker 1: governor got elected in twenty eighteen. After his inauguration in
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  Speaker 1: January of twenty nineteen, I started talking to then Commissioner
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  Speaker 1: Corkran And it was Richard Corkran who brought me and
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  Speaker 1: as the chancellor for Workforce and then was grateful to
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  Speaker 1: serve under many and alongside Stassy. At the time, Commissioner
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  Speaker 1: Commutzus was the General Counsel in the Department of Ed
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  Speaker 1: and that's how I got to know him too, an
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  Speaker 1: exceptional leader in concrats to him again on his presidency
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  Speaker 1: at POLK. The people at POLK, the students at POLK,
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  Speaker 1: the faculty at POLK, I know them well. They have
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  Speaker 1: they have a great president.
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  Speaker 2: When you walk in the office Monday, what's that look
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  Speaker 2: like for you? Do you gather the staff together in
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  Speaker 2: the room. Have you done that informally or what does
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  Speaker 2: that first day going to be?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the first day is exactly that. At the Department
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  Speaker 1: of Education here in Tallahassee, we are blessed to have
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  Speaker 1: over one thousand, almost two thousand four full time employees
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  Speaker 1: serving the residents students of Florida. And so they're all
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  Speaker 1: in the building up here, Turlington Building, and I'll meet
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  Speaker 1: with them. We'll talk, well, listen, I'll learn understand the
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  Speaker 1: needs internal to the department. Critical for the success of
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  Speaker 1: the education agenda in Florida is attending to the needs
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  Speaker 1: of the agency. We need to deliver, we need to execute,
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  Speaker 1: and you can't do that without a high functioning Department
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  Speaker 1: of Education and a culture that values the kind of
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  Speaker 1: values that I value, which is a great workplace. And
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  Speaker 1: so that's day one is meeting with internal staff. Also
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  Speaker 1: to on the calls with the presidents and superintendents, messages
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  Speaker 1: to the board members across the state, both at the
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  Speaker 1: college level and the school district level, to reaffirm again
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  Speaker 1: my commitment to the education agenda that this governor has
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  Speaker 1: laid out, doubling down on choice, parental empowerment, and again
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  Speaker 1: expanding pathways for students to enter no matter, no matter
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  Speaker 1: the career directory, entering the pathway that is best suited
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  Speaker 1: for them. So a lot of communication, a lot of talking.
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  Speaker 1: I am an open endure accessible individual. I don't want
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  Speaker 1: to be regarded or seen as someone who is aloof
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  Speaker 1: or not connected. I need to get into the trenches
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  Speaker 1: with the people that are making the difference.
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  Speaker 2: So, yeah, when you then start looking into maybe a
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  Speaker 2: beginning workflow, a list of things to do, how much,
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  Speaker 2: if any of it is left over from Commissioner commutsist
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  Speaker 2: that he said, hey, doctor mac, here's some things we
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  Speaker 2: didn't get to that we were teeing up. Take a
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  Speaker 2: look at him, and how much of it is your
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  Speaker 2: thoughts and observations heading into the job.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, great, I guess maybe it's about eighty twenty. Commissioner
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  Speaker 1: Commuts has did a pretty good job of wrapping everything
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  Speaker 1: up and leaving a nice transition in place. Okay, so
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  Speaker 1: we know, we know we still have work to do
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  Speaker 1: on literacy and numeracy. We know that we need to
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  Speaker 1: get kids reading at grade level by grade three one
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  Speaker 1: hundred percent. We know despite the great efforts on the
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  Speaker 1: high school graduation rates historic rates incidentally, as well as
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  Speaker 1: sixty percent students reading on level, which is the highest
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  Speaker 1: number in I think Florida history. At least, we know
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  Speaker 1: we need to do better, and so there are things
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  Speaker 1: that we need to be looking at at the public
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  Speaker 1: school level, at the charter school level, and the choice level,
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  Speaker 1: to try to figure out how to move in the
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  Speaker 1: positive direction of getting kids where they need to be.
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  Speaker 1: We also, I think too, at the federal level, the
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  Speaker 1: President has set a goal to expand apprenticeships. Registered apprenticeships
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  Speaker 1: are an earn and learn model where students, adults, whomever,
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  Speaker 1: get a job and while they're on the job, they're
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  Speaker 1: learning and that learning is converted into credit. The President
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  Speaker 1: has set a goal to a million a million active
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  Speaker 1: apprentices and Florida needs to contribute to that. And I
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  Speaker 1: think we could do better by doubling down on intermediaries,
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  Speaker 1: making it easier for employers to work with education institutions.
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  Speaker 1: And again, you know, breaking down the silos and is
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  Speaker 1: coming from the federal government. We also oversaw the workforce
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  Speaker 1: board system here in Florida. We call them career source
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  Speaker 1: right where you go to find an opportunity, either a
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  Speaker 1: reskilling opportunity if you're a dislocated worker spirit airlines for example,
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  Speaker 1: employees can go to get training. That training cannot be
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  Speaker 1: divorced from the education system. And again, I think we
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  Speaker 1: need to do better job of breaking down the silos,
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  Speaker 1: and so at least for the next three to six months,
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  Speaker 1: we need to I think, really seriously think about literacy
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  Speaker 1: and numeracy, accelerating students, and finding ways to provide quality
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  Speaker 1: options other than a university degree for residents that want it.
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  Speaker 2: Last question before I let you go this morning, and
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  Speaker 2: thank you so much for the time, doctor Mac. Yeah, no,
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  Speaker 2: thank you. You mentioned that while we're doing well in
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  Speaker 2: these areas, there's a whole lot we can do better.
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  Speaker 2: You know, if we're at fifty seven to fifty eight
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  Speaker 2: sixty percent passing a certain level, that means we're at
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  Speaker 2: forty percent or thirty eight percent not or forty two
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  Speaker 2: percent not. But yet we're graduating ninety percent of our
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  Speaker 2: high schoolers. That's a disparity that doesn't make any sense
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  Speaker 2: if they're failing to we eat certain standards and we're
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  Speaker 2: in testing. Its seventy percent is the highest. How can
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  Speaker 2: we be graduating ninety percent when there's so many falling short.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the sixty percent is at a certain grade level,
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  Speaker 1: and so after that grade level there is the ability
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  Speaker 1: to remediate, to intervene, and to provide the necessary interventions
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  Speaker 1: to get them to the place where they're eligible for
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  Speaker 1: high school graduation, and so that explains the difference between
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  Speaker 1: the ninety and sixty. To your point, though, what we
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  Speaker 1: need to be doing. Perhaps we explore competency based models
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  Speaker 1: of learning. Perhaps we explore how to matriculate or graduate
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  Speaker 1: students from grade level to grade level to grade level,
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  Speaker 1: not necessarily based on age, but maybe on skills, maybe
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  Speaker 1: on competency. Maybe there is a better way for money
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  Speaker 1: to follow the student in a more personalized and individualized
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  Speaker 1: approach that gets them tool the tools and the resources
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  Speaker 1: that we need. Since we know one size fits all
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  Speaker 1: education models don't work, and so maybe the forty percent
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  Speaker 1: above that city percent we need to do a better job. Certainly,
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  Speaker 1: but maybe there's an alternative model of education and training
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  Speaker 1: that those students are better suited for. And so figuring
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  Speaker 1: that out is certainly a highly complicated and complex proposition,
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  Speaker 1: but part of the choice agenda, part of empowering parents
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  Speaker 1: to do what's right for their kids. They know their
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  Speaker 1: kids the best, and so if Henry is better off
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  Speaker 1: in a pre apprenticeship program rather than a standard high
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  Speaker 1: school diploma, maybe we should Maybe we shouldn't sentidvise that right,
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  Speaker 1: Maybe we should get Henry the skills that he needs
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  Speaker 1: to enter the occupation that he wants, because maybe Henry
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  Speaker 1: is attracted to becoming an electrician or a plumber or
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  Speaker 1: a welder, and maybe he wants to start his own business.
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  Speaker 1: And again, you know, forcing them into a standard high
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  Speaker 1: school diploma track may not be the best thing. And
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  Speaker 1: so the optionality, I think, is where we're going to
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  Speaker 1: look next and how do we again, how do we
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  Speaker 1: do right?
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  Speaker 2: Well, the Henry I'm talking to got himself multiple degrees
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  Speaker 2: and now finds himself as Commissioner of Education of this
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  Speaker 2: Unshine State. That's what I know about this, Henry, doctor Mack,
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  Speaker 2: thank you for the time today. I appreciate it.
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  Speaker 1: No, thank you. Thank you to the listeners. Thank you
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  Speaker 1: the great state of Florida and the governor and everyone
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  Speaker 1: looking forward to the next chapter here.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks very much, doctor Henry Mack with us this morning
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  Speaker 2: on the Morning Show with Preston Scott.