Latest / The Bold Lounge / Jenny Wood: The 9 Bold Traits to Free Your Wild Courage

Transcript

Jenny Wood: The 9 Bold Traits to Free Your Wild Courage · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Leigh Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Today, I have Jenny Wood.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: In her 18 years at Google, jenny Wood grew from entry level to executive and she most recently led a large operations team that helped drive billions of revenue per year.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: In 2021, she started a passion project within Google called Own your Career, which grew to one of the largest career development programs in Google's history.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Through the program she founded, she has trained tens of thousands of people on acing the job search, building relationships, personal branding, effective email writing, landing the right mentor, maximizing workplace influence and, most importantly, increasing confidence.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Jenny's writing has been featured in Harvard Business Review, entrepreneur Inc and Forbes.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: She is an FAA licensed private pilot, a daily hiker, an improv student, a tap dancer and a zucchini bread connoisseur All right.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: She lives in Boulder, colorado, with two young children and her husband, john.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: She met John by chasing him off the NYC subway, and the New York Times featured their story.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me Leigh, so excited to have you on and really talk about your bold journey.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: We were in the green room a little bit and I am ready to jump in to.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: What is your definition of bold?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Well, you foreshadowed it right there.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: It's chasing a stranger off the subway who you think is hot.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: That is very bold.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: It's like bold in its truest definition.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of people come on the show and say, well, by bold it doesn't necessarily have to mean well, it's your thing, right.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to mean loud necessarily.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to mean some huge sweeping movement.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: In my case it really was this like huge sweeping move.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was on the louder end, but ultimately like, imagine if you hadn't I.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Just you know your whole life of what you know now would not be the same.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: It's almost chasing.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: You know what you want, chasing what you feel like you want to learn more about or be curious about.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Absolutely.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Before the book was called Wild Courage, which was a last minute title change, the book was called the Chase, because it was about chasing everything you want in life, whether it's an attractive guy off the subway and I can tell you how that all came to be in that story or chasing a promotion, chasing a partnership, chasing a project that lights you up at work.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: It's about chasing anything you want in life and I am happy that we landed on Wild Courage as a title.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I think that's much more positive and uplifting than the chase.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because chase can have like a bad connotation.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Exactly yeah.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: So what, outside of the subway incident, which has changed your life for the good, would you say, is another time that you chased after what you wanted, got curious, got intentional, went after it, went, all in.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: So I would say that moment on the subway when I chased this stranger off and and gave him my business card, because he was standing there and I was interested and excited and like hey, here's my business card, I mean that's.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, well, I'll just, I'll just tell you what happened and then we'll go into, like he's so even keel, my husband is so even keel that he was like, oh cool, hey.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: So so I will tie this, I will tie this to what else I've chased, but I will share what happened that day, cause you know it's, it's, it's a fun story.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: So I it's 2011.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting on this packed, crowded, dirty train in New York city, the sea line, and about 20 feet away from me stands this really good looking guy gorgeous blue eyes, thick, wavy hair, the whole works.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: And even though I want to talk to him, something holds me back right Like what if he's married?
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: What if he's a convicted felon?
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: But also like what if a hundred people stare at me while I make a fool of myself on this packed train?
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: And I later came to realize that those questions were underpinned by the same fears I'd had my whole life and the same fears I'd seen as themes across.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: So many Google executives and non-Googlers I'd coached and taught directly or indirectly for years.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: And those are three fears the fear of uncertainty, the fear of failure, the fear of the judgment of others.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: So because of those, I sat there and I did nothing and just stared at this guy as the train passed, stop after stop after stop, and I let life basically pass me by.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: But then I made a deal with the universe and I said if he gets off at my stop, which is 72nd Street, then maybe I'll try to strike up a conversation with him, and if not, that's the universe telling me it wasn't meant to be.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately he gets off at the next stop, which is not my stop, and I feel this wave of wild courage or boldness practically push me out of my subway seat and this force field pushed me off the train.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: And I catch up with him and I tap him on the shoulder.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I say, excuse me, you're wearing gloves so I can't tell if you're wearing a wedding ring.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: But in the event that you're not married.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: You were on my subway and I thought you were cute, any chance I could give you my business card and then, as I wait and nothing happens and he's like probably assessing the whole situation, I think this was a terrible idea.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: And then, ultimately, he takes the card, we go out a week later, we get married three years later and now we've been married happily for 11 years with two great kids who are seven and nine.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there was like this moment with two great kids who are seven and nine.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there was like this moment.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: So you chose to be bold, and I think of all the definitions that I've talked through with all of our guests so over 250 definitions the one thing in common is it's a choice.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: No one else can make it for you.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: So, when it comes to even courage, like that's within you, right, we can have positive influences around us and people who pump us up or challenge us in a positive way, but ultimately, it's up to you.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and we said that was the prequel.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: But.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: But your actual question was well, how else have you, you know, been bold and how has this led to other choices in your life?
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: So, to honor that question, it really was the moment that I started considering wild courage a habit, a muscle I could build, choices I could make every day.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: And so I started clearly setting goals and writing them down and telling people and achieving them, like getting my pilot's license, or asking for what I wanted at work and asking for more responsibility, asking to meet with more senior stakeholders.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: And I kept getting promoted and I ultimately grew to lead a couple of different divisions at Google in a COO capacity.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: You know, just before I left not too long ago, was running a brand new team.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: That was an operations team, sitting between sales and engineering, helping work through bugs and things like that from customers and other technical stuff.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: And then people asked me well, how'd you?
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: How'd you get there?
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: And you know how do you navigate this big competitive place called Google?
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: And so I wrote down a couple of career tips on a piece of paper and thought, okay, maybe I'll do a training and a dozen people will come, but 2000 people came to that first training I led, and then this program, own your career, ultimately became one of the largest career programs in Google's 26 year history.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: So here we are just one courageous choice or action after another and eventually some cool stuff happens.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Ultimately, like in my book, I talk about each bold step you take, I think gives you more confidence and courage and you feel more agency in your life, and then it is a cycle, the next bold step, and it keeps going and keeps going and it gains momentum.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Now it may feel like ages, or it may feel, you know, like when you were waiting for him to respond, minutes seem like hours.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: You know how long something may take, because a lot of us want things instantly, but it does take time Most of the time for you to really see it.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: But if you don't take action, nothing happens, and that's true.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: And so just taking that first step and having that wild courage, really not fight it, but go with it and kind of lift you up and take you off and I visualize this like as you're getting off that subway so it's led to you advocating for yourself or sharing an idea, and you know those.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Those are quieter, bold moments, right, but they're the ones that also add up into the results that you see in your career and what you're doing now.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: So why would you want to write Wild Courage?
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Why did you write it?
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Well, having worked with so many executives and people in corporate environments entrepreneurs, artists, scientists I saw that there are things that people want in life and like think about it for yourself.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Think of something you want right now.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: It could be a project, it could be a relationship, it could be something else.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Think about what's standing between you and achieving that thing.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Having worked in this space a long time, I noticed a common theme across people who are talented and skilled and experienced, and that was fear.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I already referred to it before the three fears of fear, of uncertainty, fear of failure, fear of the judgment of others.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: And by the time I started writing this book, I came to recognize that fear and how that is the main blocker between what you want and what you get.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: And that's such good news, because fear we can work with right.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is good news Fear we can do.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: It's good news.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: It's great news because it's all about the agency.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: There's no external factor getting in your way money, talent, skill, luck, right All of that.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And think about everything going on in the world right now, no matter where you sit on the political spectrum, like there's a lot going on in the world and so some people like it, some people don't like it, but whatever it is, you have agency, like you have agency to always take the wheel and drive.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: And so, despite the fact that I had no intention to ever write a book in my entire life, I did feel compelled to create a process of feeling that fear and taking action anyway, and creating a set of tools to help you go after what you want and get it.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: And that process and those tools are wild courage.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: So helping people walk through their fears, or through them in a way that they can understand it, isn't just just do it Right.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that doesn't work.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Honestly, you can't force someone to be bold.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: You can't force someone to have courage, and this is a nice way to do that.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: So when you thought about taking your lived experience and the things that maybe came naturally to you or things you actually worked on, right, you know, because sometimes we got to pump ourselves up, we got to psych ourselves up to do certain things or just push away some of the things that may come into our head that could limit us or hinder us, how did you think about formatting the book so that we could take it in as a model to follow, because sometimes that's the hardest thing.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: So the book has an unusual model.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: It is these nine I'll call them eyebrow raising traits that create the bars of an invisible cage that keep you small.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And those nine traits are weird selfish, shameless, nosy, obsessed, manipulative, brutal, reckless and bossy.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Now, how did those surprising, like I would say, fairly unconventional?
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I do call this a rebellion against conventional wisdom, because we are taught our whole life to not be selfish, to not be manipulative, to gosh, not be reckless, and it is flipping those all on their head, it's reclaiming them.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: So how did it come to be?
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I'd already signed with an agent and was working with a collaborator and we had this awesome meeting in New York City, meeting in person for the first time, and one of my editors said I'm going to give you a homework assignment on your flight back to Denver.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I want you to think of all the things you've done that have helped you be successful and grow from entry level to executive at Google.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: That could have a little bit of an ick factor and I was like, okay, interesting thought exercise.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: And so I wrote down a 14 page document on that flight home and it had things like well, I feel like a tiny fish in your very big pond of Penguin Random House.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: And so when I started working same with my very, very famous agent, who's a top literary agent in New York and has all the big authors, I'm like this nobody.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: And so when I first started working with both my editor and agent, I wrote them a handwritten note like really detailing out how excited I was to work with them.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, that was a kind thing to do, but it was also with the intention to influence that they'll maybe care an iota more about me, even though I'm a nobody.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Right, like in this field, you think you're a nobody but you're not All right.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: All right, I know, but like there, we go with our own limiting self view, and so that ended up being a concept that would fall under manipulative.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Simply, the power, the courage to build, influence and build relationships through empathy.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: So it's all about genuine connection, it's all about relationship building, and I was just trying to do something that differentiated me, that stood out.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: That was as simple as a handwritten note.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with it, right?
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: We're not talking about trying to harm anybody, but whether you're selling a product, an idea or yourself, the ability to win friends and allies and supporters is all about mutual benefit.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: So find out what people want and go get it for them.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: And what do people often want?
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: They want to feel valued, they want to feel loved, they want to feel respected.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: So I was sharing some love, some value and some respect to my editor and my agent.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: And then I like to push it.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not one to shy away from something extreme or different or, dare I say, you know, wildly courageous, and I was like, yeah, let's go with these nine traits for the book.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: It feels like a massive risk, lee.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: You know this book is just getting out there to the world now.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: I've already had companies, you know, because I'm also a keynote speaker and I do consulting for Fortune 500 companies, lead workshops, and I've already had companies say this book doesn't align with our value.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: So we thought we'd be able to bring you in.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: But once we kind of ran these nine trades up the flagpole, unfortunately we're not able to, and like it's super disappointing to hear that.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: But I also know that for every no I'm probably going to get 10 yeses for companies that are like thank you, finally something fresh and out there and real.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: And like you just got to.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: You got to roll with the nose, but those nose are still hard.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Especially as an author.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I feel like you get I love your percentage a little higher than mine, but I think this is what I think it takes.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I think it's like two yeses to it feels like you know, 250 nos.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah yeah, my ratio was very glass half full.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it, but I think it's exactly what you're saying, like you're going to find your people, you're going to find the organizations and the individuals who are going to be touched by this, because I bet some people have actually even been called some of those things.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I think as women, sometimes we are called bossy.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I think if you're bold, you could be reckless.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I think with regard to if you're bold, you could be reckless.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I think with regard to.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I think women in general, we feel selfish if we choose ourselves or if we, you know, advocate or should.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I've done X, y or Z for somebody else and definitely I think I've been called weird before because I don't I don't fit the mold of.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: You know, potentially, what someone would expect from someone who's had X number of years in their corporate career and now what are you doing?
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I think that was one of the things when you talk about your the three fears of just people really not understanding what I was doing when I wasn't assigned to an entity, an organization, like, if you're not a tech what are you doing Like?
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: how could you even like breathe?
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: And I was like I'm breathing really well, yeah, no, I mean, I think that's a great example of weird.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Right, weird is the courage to stand out, and within your so-called weirdness lie your greatest strengths.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: So hone every ounce of weird you've got.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: And weird doesn't mean you have to be outlandish Like I was weird by leaving my very, very comfortable, very lucrative especially as the breadwinner of my family job at Google to be a full-time writer who does that.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I was terrified by the judgment of others and I had to get over my own truth and tales.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: And this is a tool I have that helps you in any tough decision you're making, in any bold or courageous move you want to make really differentiate between what is a truth, what is a verifiable fact and what is the tale you're making.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: In any bold or courageous move you want to make really differentiate between what is the truth, what is a verifiable fact and what is the tale you're telling yourself, the stories that we believe, whether they're helpful or not, that help you make sense of those facts.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: So if we break that down in my situation having just recently left Google and really, really, really having struggled with this decision to leave and doing a lot of back and forth and just difficulty, analysis, paralysis.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: For sure I had to separate the truths and the tales.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: So, truth, I will not be employed at Google anymore.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Truth, I will make less money my first year outside of Google.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Truth, I will be a writer.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Truth, I will be a keynote speaker.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: But what are all the tales that I conjured up?
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: We're going to have to move out of our house in a great location in Boulder and downsize.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: My parents are going to be disappointed in me.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: My kids are going to be mad at me because they can't come to Google and get all the free snacks and slide down the fun slide and go to the hidden game room.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm going to be.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: You know, it's eat what you kill out there and it's going to be so exhausting and my work-life balance will be terrible, right?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: So, like tale, tale, tale, and it's maybe somewhat known advice to separate the facts and the stories.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: But I think what is maybe less known is that we always have the agency to retell that story, and that's what we don't often do.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: So I could simply have more agency around the story I tell myself, because we believe what we say.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: So maybe I say I'm leaving to razzle, dazzle my book for two years and I can always get another corporate job if that's what serves me at that time and serves my family.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: And that's something that both honors the facts right, I am leaving and I might make less money to start but then also makes me feel more empowered.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I can always go get another job.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty employable.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: So reframing those tails to be more positive or at least neutral can be so, so, so valuable.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: So that's truths and tales yeah, you don't have to lie to yourself and I know not at all people think sometimes when they're making their first world moves, and the b in the framework is belief and so you know, there's a big introspection of our beliefs, helping us or holding us back and I think, going to some of the things that you just talked about, it goes to the next level of how could you look at your beliefs and how could you even do a simple activity like you just shared for someone to start to work through and I think, just start, you know, like start working through it start thinking that no one needs to know anything.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: You can absolutely begin the process.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: The second best time is today.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, don't wait.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: There's so much power in just even thinking and writing down what's possible.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And when you think about the nine traits, is any one more important than the other?
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Or do we have all nine of them?
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Or like, how does that work for us perfectionists out here that get 100%?
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: on the trait tree.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: It's like you're asking me to pick my favorite child, lee.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's see.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's more of a moment to moment type of thing for me.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: So today I will say what feels the most important and also the most difficult, because those oftentimes go hand in hand is reckless, and that is the courage to take calculated risks, to err on the side of action, Because, honestly, better to learn from your mistakes than spend time predicting the consequences of every possible decision.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Right, think fast and fearless and if you're on the fence, do it.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: And I've been really struggling with this one as I get this book out into the world.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: And here's a small example, but it's very real, and I had my therapist appointment this morning and I talked about it, so it's top of mind.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: But we sent out like maybe 300 advanced copies of the book with the intention that people will bring me in to speak or buy books in bulk, which is just such a great way to get the work out there.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: And of those 300, I've gotten through about 200 checking in with them.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Hey, would you like to buy a couple hundred copies of the book?
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Might there be an opportunity to bring me in for a workshop or an offsite or a leadership summit or your sales kickoff.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: And this is more like your ratio you put out 250 and you get a couple of responses back, and so I've gotten through 200 of the 300.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: And last hundred, I have just been sitting on for four weeks and it's like every day I just have to re-tap into being reckless, re-tap into erring on the side of action, re-tap into not procrastinating the hard, scary, daunting task where you might get rejected, you might get ghosted, you might have a yes that turns into a no and just go for it.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: And it's been really hard for me to prioritize sending those last hundred emails because I did not get a hundred percent response rate from the first.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: And then you get like a little rejection and it's easy to just be like well, it's just never going to work, but you've just got to keep pushing through.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: And so that's, I'm telling myself be reckless, jenny, be reckless.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: So while I will not say it is the most important or that it is my favorite child, I will say that this one's plaguing me today and I recognize it's a really hard one for you to push through.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah and it's top of mind right, especially in kind of where you are and kind of your launch and getting out there.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes we think that the no's were supposed to be yeses, when, ultimately, I have found in my life when I get a no, instead of like thinking it was me or did I do something wrong, or do they not understand, do they not like me Like I could go through a whole myriad of things that go through my head your no's weren't supposed to be yes.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: And not always thinking the worst of something is especially when you're you're being bold or you're being courageous or you're following your heart which I think there's a combination of those in this discussion is something that you just keep moving forward and don't let those types of moments stop you.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and at the core of that is pushing past the discomfort, right, right.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: So my grandma Lila was known for saying no is just an opening offer.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: So first of all, grandma Lila was a total badass.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: She was definitely bold, yeah, she was definitely bold.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: She agreed to be a bridesmaid in my wedding at the age of 88, first of all how fun is that.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: And she was also the CEO of her own financial services company until 92.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: And I spent a lot of time with her.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: John and I actually lived with her in Manhattan on her pullout couch for several months when we were first married and we were apartment hunting.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And one night we sit down to dinner and John delivers some unfortunate news.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: He says he's been part of a major company restructure and he has been laid off.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: So I'm like super bummed as a newlywed, like crushed for him and just sad.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I look across the table and little old grandma Lila, at 4'10 and 90 pounds, has this gleam in her eye and she says no, it's just an opening offer, don't sign the paperwork.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: And John and I look at each other across the table trying to silently communicate what we're thinking and John says grandma, I don't think it works that way.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: A layoff is like a one-sided thing.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: John says, grandma, I don't think it works that way.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: A layoff is like a one-sided thing.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: They say you don't work here anymore, and I say okay.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: But grandma persists and she says well, don't let your fear of being uncomfortable shape your decisions.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: You both want something.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: You want a job, because it's easier to get a job when you have a job, and they want to get stuff done, even though they can't afford to pay you.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: So get your ego out of the way and find a compromise.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Finally, john relents and he half-heartedly the next day calls his VP and offers to stay on for 10% time and pay while he job searches.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: And Lee, I kid you not.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: To everyone's surprise, they accept.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: And so you know.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: The point really is what grandma said in the story is don't let fear shape your decisions.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: And how often do we do that?
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: How often do we not ask a partner for what we want, or a customer for what we need, or that cute person on the subway if you can give them your business card?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Chances are.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: When we don't, it's because of fear, and I already mentioned that's such great news, because you can work through fear and you can muster the wild courage to push past that fear.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: And when you do, whether you win or lose in any one single thing, or succeed or fail in any one single thing, you will never feel as purposeful, powerful and alive as when you push past that fear, when you get reckless, when you take the bold move and you realize the joy and success on the other side, because everything we've ever wanted is on the other side of fear and it's up to us to reach for it.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and to take action right.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the excitement, the growth, the energy, the living a fulfilling life comes from the hard, challenging stuff, the choices that we make that are not just easy breezy, lemon squeezy.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: So I felt like, as a woman, you never want to be told or hear yourself or think of yourself as selfish or reckless or bossy.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: So, when it comes to being bossy, how do we wrap ourselves around that particular trait in your mind?
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: So bossy is a cool one.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Bossy is the courage to listen and lead, and it's ultimately steering others to success.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: And this is the one where all the other traits come together and miraculously create a leader.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: And we want to win partners and allies and collaborators and help them aggressively, push them mercilessly, win their gratitude and achieve amazing things together.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Like Michael Jordan, he needled his teammates as the star player and he pushed them mercilessly, but they were so grateful ultimately that he made them champions.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: And it is this balance of both leading and having the courage to make decisions and to make tough choices and to be the tiebreaker, as a good boss should be, but also being thoughtful and prioritizing your team and ending every one-on-one with your team with the support suffix.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: I call it.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: How can I support you this week?
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Or, tapping into what I call the humble two, the two phrases that have so much power that a leader can say I don't know and I was wrong.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: And I got to tell you.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: When I first started managing managers at Google, I was tasked with shutting down this large organization in one part of the world and building it back up in another part of the world.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: How daunting, and I was brand new to the org, I made some massive mistakes.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I'm on a flight from Chicago once and I'm about to lead an offsite the next day with my senior leadership team who reported to me and I was so insecure and had so much imposter syndrome and wanted to prove that I was good boss right, that I was leveraging bossiness in the wrong way.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I opened up a PowerPoint deck or I guess Google Slides and I put every strategy idea, pillar, assigning each leader to a pillar, the Gantt chart, the whole program right, like the plan the next six months, what we're going to do here, what we're going to do there.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: And I went into that offsite the next day like ta-da, like I've got the plan and like let's just, you know, check the box and go through it and then we'll just like put the plan into action.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Well, lee, I started presenting and you could have heard an erasable marker drop in that conference room because they were dead silent and looking at me with scorn and actually said things like why would you come in here and think that you have all the answers?
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Don't you realize that together we have a combined 35 years of experience?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: You've been on this team for how long?
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Three months, and then some were more circumspect and said we appreciate you're trying to put this plan together, but we actually want to be part of the plan and we want to build this together.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: That's kind of what today is for.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: And you know, at Google you get a score from your direct reports and I got like the equivalent of a D minus that cycle.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Just really terrible, manager, super tough, right.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: And especially like for those of us who are like you, have the honor roll hangover of trying to turn every lesson.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly, and so A I felt like for the next year I had that number floating over my head, right.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: So that's a whole different story of how do you push past that imposter syndrome when you've got a setback like that.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: But what it taught me is that I was not tapping into the right kind of bossy that day the courage to listen and lead, the fact that people need to weigh in, to buy in, that people want to come together and create solutions, especially when you're dealing with senior leaders.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: And I just learned so much and from that moment on I was much more aware of building things together and all I needed to do was come in with a couple of Sharpies, throw them on the conference table and build the plan together, and I really felt like I had to prove that I knew what I was doing.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Squeeze an exquisite amount of leadership into these 30 slides like this is Jenny as boss and it just totally backfired.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: And so bossy is the courage to listen and lead.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Shadow your team for an hour a week.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Ask what's keeping them up at night, ask what their challenges are, prioritize career development conversations with them.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: It's, you know, it's common sense, but it's rarely common practice.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think I'll just add, like, the step two to that is actually then taking action on what you think is actionable.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I remember a CEO walking around to my staff once and asking all of my staff what they were, you know, being kept up at night with, and I thought, well, there's a lot of things going on I don't know what she's gonna hear, you know like turnaround type of situation and implementing innovation, and it was just a wild time.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: But I think, as I was listening to some of those answers, it was like, oh yeah, we can do something about that.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, that's the way it is and we'll have to figure out how to support people through it.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Or because sometimes you can't fix everything and as a fixer like I, wanted to fix everything that was wrong or prevent anything bad from happening, which also I know is not possible.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I love that because you're also bringing up another.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: You know I call these, when you take these traits too far, I call them trait traps.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Right, you want to be the right kind of obsessed, not and that's push, perform, persist, not grind yourself into a, into a pot.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly Not burn out.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly, and so a great leadership tool I have for that is called patterns, not problems, right, you just referenced, like all these things, all these fires that you had to put out.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Part of being bossy is being really discerning around.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: What are the problems and what are the patterns?
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: If one person says you know the customer experience on the red widgets is keeping me up at night, it's tempting sometimes to go put out that fire, solve that problem, show your value as the leader and like, run around, like ah, like how do we fix the red widgets right, when really a good boss is able to take a step back, gather data, look at both quantitative and qualitative feedback.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Ask some other people are red widgets a problem for you?
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Go look at both quantitative and qualitative feedback.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Ask some other people are red widgets a problem for you?
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Go look at the last three years of red widget sales.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Are they increasing or declining?
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Really, be thoughtful about solving for the pattern, not just the problem of one person raising something.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: So it is a balance of listening and shadowing and asking the team what keeps you up at night, but also recognizing when do you solve and when do you take it in and say okay, thank you for sharing, and then gathering more information to see if there really is a pattern there, if it's just one person's bespoke experience.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: And I think the other thing, just with all your experience and you know career planning and the career course that you created and all the feedback that you had over your time at Google, are there top three mistakes that we make in our career?
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Is there one big one that we make that we need to just pay attention to that you can share, that you've learned from all that data and information.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: So the biggest that I have seen is this lie we've been told that your work will just speak for itself.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Don't rock the boat, keep your head down.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, baseline is you've got to learn to deliver right, because if you don't have the goods, then you're never going to go far in your career or in your project or in your entrepreneurial endeavors.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Right, but taking that as baseline, 50% of your job should be communicating up, down and across.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: It's old news to manage up right.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: We all know that to your boss.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: What to me, is more counterintuitive is manage higher.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Meet with your boss's boss.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Let them know what you worked on this quarter.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Manage diagonally, in addition to managing up Diagonally, is up and to the right and left on an org chart.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Your boss's peers.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: If you work at a company of any decent size, promotion and raise decisions are not made unilaterally.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: They're made by committee.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Get to know a couple of the people who pull the strings and go pull theirs right.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: So these are genuine relationships that should be built.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Find out, a who has influence and B who you just generally naturally connect with.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: You don't want to be miserable building relationships with people you think are jerks.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Life's too short for that, but I would say it is a lie if you believe that just keep your head down, you'll get rewarded eventually.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: People need to know what you're working on and what you bring to the table and what your three power assets are that make up your power portfolio, your strengths, your talents, your individual skills and let that stuff be known, because if you just keep your head down and think your work's going to speak for itself, it does sometimes, but it oftentimes doesn't and you have control over that.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what if someone says I'm an introvert, courage is hard for me or speaking up is hard for me?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: What would you say to them about how they could apply the concepts and the things that you walk through in Wild?
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Courage.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I love this because Wild Courage does not require you to be a subway chaser.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Wild Courage does not even require you to talk to anybody else One of the most powerful tactics that anybody can use day to day if they have a boss and most people have a boss and if you don't have a boss, there's other ways you could apply this with your customers.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: But one of the most powerful things you can do is what I call the shameless Monday email, and that is simply two bullets of two things you're proud of from last week.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: You send it to your boss every Monday morning, takes you no more than 15 minutes to write.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: If it takes you longer than that, you're taking too long on it.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: So two bullets of things that you're proud of from last week even better if you can include a number or a metric and two things you're pumped to work on this week.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: In my career at Google, having managed lots and lots and lots of people, from individual contributors to senior leaders, I saw this maybe like 10% of the time, and the people who did this consistently were always the future leaders at the company.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: It shows proactivity, it shows organization.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: It shows you shamelessly stating your value.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: It shows that you're obsessed right, You're pushing, you're performing, you're persisting.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: It shows that you're strategic.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: It shows that you can boil down a lot of things that you did last week into the two most important and then focus on the two most important things, looking forward.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: And the reason I say it's a great tool for introverts.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: It doesn't require standing up and asking a question in a town hall.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: It doesn't require asking someone to be your mentor or your sponsor.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: It's just simply an email that you send every Monday morning and that you put on your calendar and get in the habit of sending.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: So it doesn't mean you have to get on the stage, you don't have to speak up Now.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: It's two bullet points, two minutes.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Love that Easy to follow, in the sense of easy to do and to create.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: And again, just start right from the center of that, because I think you can do this and for me, I think sometimes people think you have to have every step planned one through 50, and really just need to have the next one planned and that's a very implementable one in the sense of how to use it.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: So, as we close out, one of the things that I think is hard for people sometimes is to get and receive feedback, and sometimes that can stop them from being courageous or bold.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Again, I certainly have gotten certain feedback and I'm just like I'm not really sure what vantage point you had, but I didn't see it that way, or my team didn't even see it that way.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: So someone's received maybe maybe they had didn't, it didn't work or go as planned, or they got feedback that wasn't positive.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: How can they use that to help them be courageous, keep moving forward and not give up or forget about what they had hoped to do or hope to achieve?
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to take this from two different vantage points, so one from the recipient of the feedback and also from the leader who's giving the feedback, because I think oftentimes it's actually on them to create an environment that that feedback is easier to take in.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: But first let's answer your question directly, which is how do you move on from that?
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I was once giving a presentation and I got 98% positive feedback, but I got 2%, one out of five rating, and which was just one person, and I read it and it said Jenny was so terrible that the only reason I stayed on the call was for the comic relief.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: And everybody in my department felt the same way and like I got to tell you that was tough to read.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: It was, it was not somebody at Google, okay.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: And so I I was just crushed.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: You know, I was just boarding a flight.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I was eating this like chia pudding.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: I was like remember it very distinctly, totally totally totally and I like lost my appetite, felt like I had the wind knocked out of me.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: And then I read through all the positive comments.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Well, we have a natural negativity bias, which is a cognitive bias that makes our brains focus on the negative over the positive.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: And so, even though I had, you know, a hundred verbatim qualitative sentences around what people loved about you know the presentation, all I could focus on was that.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: So what did I do?
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I had to burn, learn and churn.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, there was another part of that feedback that said it looked like she was reading from a teleprompter.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, and so what do I burn?
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I burn the fact that, like, I can picture this person laughing in the kitchen with his other colleagues.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Wasn't Jenny Wood?
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Terrible, what a joke.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: But that wasn't helpful.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: So I just need to burn that, Just like get rid of that.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Wasn't Jenny Wood?
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Terrible, what a joke, but that wasn't helpful.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: So I just need to burn that, Just like get rid of that.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Don't even think about that.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: It's not useful.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Someone's having a bad day, Don't let them take it out on you.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: But what could I learn?
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Well, honestly, reading that feedback, it looked like she was reading from a teleprompter.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Lee, that was the last day that, when giving a virtual presentation, I used any notes and from that day forward, I literally did not use a single note or speaker note in the slide deck or notes above the screen for any reference.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Literally, I stopped cold turkey.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: So I learned something.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: So burn what's not useful, learn what is useful and churn, move through it quickly, Rather than stewing on it.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: For a month I was just like, okay, it's been 24 hours Now we move on.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: So burn, learn and churn.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: What can you get rid of and disregard?
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: What can you actually use and carry forward and how quickly can you move through it?
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: So that's how I recommend people think about moving through really tough feedback.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: And man, have I had some humdingers.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I could give you a list of 20.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Now let's take it from the perspective of the leader.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: How can you, in a corporate setting or anytime you're giving anybody feedback it could even be a partner or a spouse or a friend how can you stay safe so that you can really be thoughtful about how you give feedback, Because it's tough to get constructive feedback?
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: How can you create the most pleasant possible situation?
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Stay safe.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Safe stands for S setting A is action, F is feeling and E is effect.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: So let's say I'm giving someone feedback on their presentation from last week and I would say the setting is in the customer presentation with blah blah blah client last Tuesday.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: That's the setting.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, be really specific versus in general.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: You, X, Y, Z, what was the action?
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: You were cutting off people when they were talking and that made you seem less patient than I know.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: You are Okay, that's the action.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: You were cutting off people when they were talking and that made you seem, you know, less patient than I know.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: You are Okay, that's the action.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: What is the specific thing?
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: They did Not?
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Just, you need to improve your presentation skills.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: What can I do with that?
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Not much Like what's the specific thing?
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: You were cutting people off.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Then feeling is really important.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: This is the F.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: So what were you feeling in that moment?
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: And then they might say something like oh, I was actually really anxious because I knew that they'd specifically asked me to get to the data part and I was worried we weren't going to have time to get there and I knew that's what they were most excited to hear about in that presentation.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: So I was stressed and anxious the whole time and that allows them to give their perspective, which they're going to genuinely want to do anyway, and it allows them to do it in a way that doesn't feel like pushback but just honors that they're coming to it from a different place.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: And then, finally, E is.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: This is the effect of that.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: So that could be a really big effect.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Like this has been a problem.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: It's the ninth time I've seen it.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: This could impact your performance review or the effect might be really minor and it might be something more close to.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: By the way, this was a teeny, tiny thing.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: You crushed that presentation.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I just know you're always looking to grow, so I'm sharing it because I think you'll want to know how to improve.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Those are very different tenors of oh boy, am I really in hot water?
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Am I going to get fired?
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: Or is it like oh, she knows, I have a growth mindset.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: She's just always trying to help me.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: So you kind of want to level set how big of a deal this is.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: So you want to stay safe when you're giving feedback to anybody, and safe stands for setting action, feeling and effect.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Love that.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Another easy, implementable thing that you can do to take action, to give good feedback and then also to receive it as well.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: And I just think about all mine.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot of those moments like you would hear one thing and you'd think, oh, I don't do that.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: But it could have been those one-off moments, or it could have been moments where you're like you don't really see yourself being that way, but it was the 10th time.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: So I think that's a really great way to look through the lens for your feedback.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: So what's the best place to find you?
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Obviously, everyone should pick up Wild Courage, go after what you want and get it.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: But what's the best place for people to learn more about you?
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I actually have a free, no BS guide to getting promoted that I love to share with people.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: It's eight tips, tools, scripts, tactics, and that's at.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: It's Jennywoodcom.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Slash get promoted.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: I T S J E N N Y W O O Dcom.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Slash get promoted.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: And then I'm on LinkedIn and post every day there.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: And then even just my website, it's Jennywoodcom.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: You can book me for speaking events and I look forward to being in touch.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: But really like picking up the book would be the most meaningful thing, especially the hard copy.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: You know as a fellow author, those hard copies matter a lot.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're limited, so like pick them up, they are.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Pick it up.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, get it while it's hot.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we will have all the links for all of the sites that you just mentioned, as well as the top one about picking up the book.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the Bull Lounge sharing your wild courage and your story of being bold.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me Leigh.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: What a joy.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Bull Lounge podcast.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of bold stories vulnerability to taking a leap you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.