Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 373: Cinematography for Directors with Jacqueline B. Frost

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BPS 373: Cinematography for Directors with Jacqueline B. Frost · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
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Episode number three seventy three The Way I see it. If you want
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a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that
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next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business
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of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your
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Now, Guys, today on the show, we have filmmaker Edson Oda
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Now. Edson has directed and written an amazing new film called Nine Days,
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which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival and is getting a lot of buzz for
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possible Oscars this year. And I've had the pleasure of seeing that film and
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I understand why people are talking about it in that way. Nine Days is
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about a person who sits in judgment of new souls and they have to basically
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go through a nine day process to get to be awarded life. And so
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basically, newborn souls come in, there's a review process, and if you
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don't pass the review, you don't go forward towards life. And it is
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haunting and wonderful and heart wrenching, and the film just pulls every emotion that
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you have when you're watching it. It was really interesting because the film was
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part of the Sundance Screenwriting Lab and this is his first feature film with an
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amazing cast. It looks like the MCU just kind of blew up in his
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movie because he has a lot of NCU alumni in his film. But let's
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just get into it because it's such a fascinating conversation on how he went from
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commercial in Brazil to directing Nine Days. So, without any further ado,
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please enjoy my conversation with Edson Oda. I like to welcome to the show.
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That's an oda. How you doings in good good man? How's it
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going? Thank you? Thank you doing well man. I'm so happy to
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have you on the show man. Like I was telling you before we got
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on, I had the pleasure of watching Nine Days and I absolutely loved it.
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I think it's it's a film that we need in this world now,
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just kind of starts that conversation, starts that conversation about a deeper conversation about
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what we're doing. And I think the pandemic is really made us think about
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our lives in general. But before we go down the rabbit hole on your
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film, how did you get into business? Yeah, I was born and
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raised in Brazil, and then I started working advertising, like straight out of
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college, and then I worked in everyth that's for like ten years as a
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copywriter. And then afterst that, I moved here to the West. I
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went to film school, Grab film school, and uh yeah, and then
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I just started writing stuff. And there's at some point it just rolled nine
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days and got to the Sunder's Labs, and then from Sunden's Labs, I
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got like I'm genius, some producers and then from then on it just like
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started saying out and so like got finance. So that's pretty that's awesome.
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So when you were in Brazil you were working in the commercial world. I
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was, yeah, I was. I used to work in advertising agency.
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Oh I got oh very much. So I've been a commercial director for twenty
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years, so I yeah, but I've been a commercial director for over twenty
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five years, between music videos and commercials and stuff. So I and before
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that I was editing in editing commercials as well. So I'm very well aware
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of the agency side of the agency side of the business. Now, you
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know, coming from a commercial background and a music video background, how do
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you how did that prepare you to jump into your first feature? Uh?
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It prepared a lot actually, you know. And it was interesting because when
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I migrate, you know, I said like, oh, yeah, not
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gonna I'm just going to start from you know, uh, from beginning,
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you know. But then I think as it was just when it was doing
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prap and it was filming, I saw that it was it prepared quite a
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bit actually, especially writing because it was a copywriter. And it was interesting
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because in terms of uh, I think commercials are a very high concept,
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you know, and you you always try to grab people's attention in like a
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short span of time, and there's something that even like nine day, if
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you pitched someone there, there's a kind of a element like, oh this
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is this is weird, this is different. And I think even when it
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was coming up with the concept that was trying to go uh with something that
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sell kind of unique somehow, and it felt in the same time when you
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in advertise, you always you're push to just like I have the best execution
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to one single scene that's like thirty seconds, you know, so I think
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every every single scene somehow I saw more or less like an you know,
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a commercial in the way that I need, you know, tons of the
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execution, just just I know one that I felt like, all this this
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switch well to the story and what I want to achieved. So it was
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it was very helpful to be honest. Yeah, I mean when you're writing.
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When you're writing, you ideally you're supposed to have a beginning, of
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the middle, and end in every scene. Uh. And with commercial you
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are trained to do that every thirty seconds. So it helps you with your
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writing a lot. I'm sure. Now, how did nine Days come to
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life? No pun intended. Yeah, no, it's it's it was a
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burdatory than someone's like it was. It was such a you know I started
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writing it. It was like two thousand and fifteen. Yes, it was,
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so it was pretty quick actually, and then they were like this first
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draft. I wanted to write this kind of like you know, uh,
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micro budget movie because I felt like even if people don't you know, invest
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money in it, h coorset case in there, just like I do a
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Kickstar or something, and they just making myself. So I felt like,
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yeah, I'm gonna write something that I can produce with like a interact with
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like one hundred k or something like that. Sure, and they will It
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took me like a I think one month or something after I figure out when
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I want to write about one love to just for sure that all the thoughts
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that I had, And then after that took me like three or four months
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just to you know, bride the pages. And so it was more like
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four months and two I had like a rough first draft, and then I
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got to the Sunless Labs. And after the labs, it just started working
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on that script for like a year and a half two years or something like
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that. And then from then I just like start just like meeting producers and
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and the and from from that all it was like it was something that was
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just wasn't just me, it was some something, something took something took over
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the project at that point. Yeah. Yeah, mostly was mean because it
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was a would be the person just doing like most of the you know,
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try to sell tragic and stupideh I give you money your stuff like that.
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But it was and then people were just like be on my side. Yeah,
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yeah, give money to something. Yeah, he's he's a good he's
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a good film. It's okay, give him some money, give us money.
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He's gonna do it. He's not gonna lose it all, It'll be
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fine. It's always I always, I love I love talking to filmmakers about
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getting the money for their projects, because I don't care who you are.
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Everyone's got to hustle. Everyone's got to hustle to get there, to get
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their financing. There's very few directors who don't hustle to get their finance,
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especially for your first film. But when watching that film, but watching the
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movie, I can see that it could have easily been done for one hundred
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thousand dollars. You know, it was you know, control locations. I
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mean, obviously not as grand a scale, but you could have push Come
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to Shove made an independent version of that without question. We're talking so much
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about the film, let's can you tell us to the audience what this film
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is about. Yeah, this is such a weird we'll be to pitch,
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but I practiced a lot. So this movie is about this interviewer. It
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happens in this This is a distant reality. I don't call like you know,
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it's a it's just a local fire. And then in the same vein
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of movies like Eternal Sunshiny, Spotless Mine or Her, and and then there's
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this like a reality which is kind of a pre life reality. As a
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call, it's a before life reality. And there's like this interviewer whose name
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is will in interview souls to choose one soul for the privilege of being born.
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And the process, you know, takes like nine days to be concluded.
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And during these nine days you just get you know, talk to the
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souls, knowing them better. We'll be right back after a word from our
9:56
sponsor and now back to the show. And then by the end of the
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processes just pick one. Two people aren't to me where we all uh at
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now? So what is your definition of a soul? That's what's an interesting
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question. You know. I think it's it's everything that's not uh created through
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the environment, you know. I think it's it's things that are innately there
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are you know, part of us before we interacted to one another. But
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somehow they tell how the interactions, you know, or or how the environment
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will shape us just kind of you know, I think scientifically would be or
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DNA. But it's interesting, but it's not the DNA because as you can
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see, you know, there's so many frames variables. Yeah, there's veryble
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but on a but on a spiritual level, what do you think your definition
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of a so is if if if I may ask, I think I think
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it would be more like the DNA of your personality. It would be the
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Danna of your of you was not nothing related to your body as a being,
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as a being, as a being, Yeah, as a being?
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Is it being? Because I love first of all, I love the casting,
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and I loved the variety of ages, the ages, the the the
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the colors. It was like a rainbow. Its fantastic to watch. But
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I love that, you know, some of the souls that came in for
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the interviews were older, some were younger, uh, and they were all
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different personalities. And I found it so interesting that the concept that you know,
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a freshly arguably a freshly born soul, which is what I took from
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the film that is as a freshly born soul comes in and goes, Okay,
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I'm here, I'm going to interview. But if I don't make it,
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I just go back into the mix and then hopefully I'll get born against
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some other time and maybe another opportunity. But I just love that they all
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came in with some with attitude, Some were very pleasing, some wanted to
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please, others were very stand off it. It was it was a really
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interesting character study. I think it was almost so almost a sociology experience.
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Would you agree, yeah, a hundred percent. You know, it was
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interesting before I chose to become like advertiser, was like in between like psychology
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and sociology. And then I felt like I always want to somehow understanding of
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society or even give something back to society or do something for them. But
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then but at the same time, I felt like it was I had this
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kind of selfish desire of creating, you know, and just like I have
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the fun of creating that. At the time, it was just you know,
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when with advertising and that, and then later in my life it we
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just felt like, yeah, it was so interesting to do something. There
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was more like a connecting connected to war people. You know, how I
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steal about the environment around us, and it's almost like a sociological study.
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And nine Days is more or less like that. It's like how what happens
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is or something and why we are the way they are? You know.
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It's it's not it's not about like I feel trying to just answer anything,
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but it's more about like just raising the questions and like it started discussion which
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for me, it was just very very interesting. Yeah. No, the
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film definitely starts questions, and it started it asks questions and definitely will start
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discussions. I have to ask you, how was it to workshop this at
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the Sundance Writer's Lab. Well, the right, Yeah, it was even
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broke up a little bit. Yeah, so yeah, how was it?
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Yeah? How was it to workshop the film in other script at the at
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the screen at the Sundance Writers Lab, which is you know, it was
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amazing, Yeah, it was. It was just amazing. It was just
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I think since you know, when when I got to uh I got here
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in the West, I think I didn't know so much about the Sundance Labs.
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But then when I got to know, I just felt like this,
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this is this kind of white dream. You know, we want to to
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being board and you know, selected to to just workshop the script with like
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the amazing ventors and they give you feedback and something interesting. It's not just
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about the feedback and how you know, you meet them and they give you
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like notes, but it's more about the environment, you know, It's more
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about It's interesting because like like my movie, you know, the whole process
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is very almost like spiritual. It's it's like a bunch of people who are
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there, you know, isolated, and the rule number one is just like,
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let's not here listen to the industry. Now we're here, we want
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to do something that's human, you know, something that makes the difference,
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something that you know it's you or you you you know, and let's just
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forget what other people you know are saying. Just find the reason for why
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you're telling your stories and why it's important. And then we after finish this,
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we just go and and start just like you know, pitching it.
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So it was interesting because the whole place, the who arm and process so
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much about learning how to be vulnerable, learn learning how to be personal,
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learning out to you know, their own stories, but not just by you
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know, telling story for the sake of telling stories, because it has how
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so to do with how can we help you with the craft in order to
15:16
you to tell the story. So it was it was just like a perfect
15:20
environment for me, like a personal but also very technical too. It's like
15:24
going to Tibet with a monk. It sounds like it's like it's your yours.
15:31
You're completely walled off from the rest of the world. It's a whole
15:33
bunch of other monks. They're teaching you how to meditate in the in the
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craft of storytelling, like you know, I don't know if you watch like
15:41
Cobra Kai, of course it's of course, I mean it's more like the
15:46
Nyagy do you know when and Hollywood is more like a later you came just
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after you go to Yago do you can go to you know, Cobraka and
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see like, oh, this is the script that I brought from Yang Doors.
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Just such a that's such an amazing analogy of Biaggy Do versus Cobra Kit.
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It's and I think, like we I'm doing advertising for the Cobra but
16:08
I'm sinking now that the new season we got to learn that both of them
16:11
need each other, which at the end of the day is true because Hollywood
16:18
does need the independent story, and the independent story needs the infrastructure of Hollywood.
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Because all of our great at all of our great directors and writers,
16:26
they all they all start somewhere, you know, they all start with their
16:32
independent films, generally speaking, before they don't just generally come out the gate
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with one hundred million dollars, striking first tracking hard. Wow, we're going
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right, We're going deep down the cover type's let's go back to nine days.
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That's so funny, all right, Still, can you to explain if
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you can tell us to kind of take a step by step. So you
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you're done at the at the Sundance Lab, you finish the script, you
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meet a few producers, and then you basically just go out into the world
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and just start looking for financing and money to try to put this project together.
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Yeah, how long did that? What was that project? Like?
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What was that process? Like it how long did it take you to do?
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Oh? Yeah, it was so it was interesting. Right after the
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so the sundst laps, I just went back to you know, went to
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my desk and then just start writing writing, right, So yeah, okay,
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now we're ready to just go out to my managers, and you know,
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my team just like started saying out to producers and Sundance as well.
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It's interesting because I was done with Sundance, but sunlsces never you know,
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done with you. They they always warn you. So and then like for
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for the next like months that we just started saying script and just start carrying
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like producers. So I think during one year I started just like working with
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producer for one year but it's more client you know, find investors and people
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who would be interested. At the same time, it's just hard for you,
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as you know, a first time director to get like money because the
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way they want to do it, they want to do like, you know,
18:00
more of with more resources. And and when I when I wanted to
18:03
do when it wroll, okay, I do like under K, but they
18:07
wanted to do with war more than und K. So so when you started
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like asking investors, we were very interested, but as well, but they
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were also like, you know, yeah, we like his vision and all
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this stuff, but who would play you know, this character? Always that
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Yeah, that was the time when we just started going introducing the script two
18:27
actors and having meetings and uh, you know from I think that it was
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like during one year and and then a couple of months later just having conversations
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the cast and we have like a amazing cast. Directors were ready like in
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the beginning of the process of us kid gallery and uh and and and and
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and just uh and just oh my god, I we have to readit which
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went what part our our cat cast? Directors? Yeah, directors, and
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we just like we just we just started just staying all this could to everyone,
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and and and then the actors were so you know, uh receptive to
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the script. And and from that we just you know, uh when when
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people say that, yeah, once you know, play this this role and
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everything, we we we just like went back to the arrestlers and the like,
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yeah, we just go out you know, oh yes, yeah.
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I mean after that cast I would invest to. I mean, it was
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a heck of a cast that you got put together there. I mean,
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it's an actor's dream. This, this script is an actor's dream. All
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the parts, even the small parts, have so much meat in them that
19:48
most actors would love to play that part. And then and I forgot his
19:53
name, but the will who plays the lead. We'll be right back for
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a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show us. Yes,
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he's he's gonna get He better get a nomination for Best Actor. I
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mean he he was a tour de force performance. I was just I was,
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I was enchanted, enthralled with him. He just he has such a
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presence. Generally he's a very large man. From Black Panther and from US
20:30
he's a very large man. But his presence because he wasn't I mean,
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he was a little bit there was. There were moments where he showed his
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physicality in the movie, but he was normally just very quiet, very gentle,
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and he still just had such presence. And when you start mixing in
20:47
all these other actors, I mean, what was it like for you as
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a first time filmmaker, for that first time filmmaker, the first time feature
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filmmaker, to have a cast like this. What did you feel like going
20:57
on the set for the first day or the table read the first day,
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Like what are the nerves? What are like? How did you approach this
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process? Yeah? No, it was amazing. Just not not remember then,
21:08
just yeah, both both guests rects with Jessica Kelly and Kid Gallery.
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They did an amazing job. They did an amazing ever did yeah, they
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did it ready job. So yeah, it was it was. It was
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an amazing process. Just like you know, she's stayed one we we're just
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talking to It was fair surreal because it was my first teacher and just having
21:30
this you know, uh a miss actors with you and and I remember like
21:34
being having all those you know, actors and the table read and like they
21:40
just reading their lines and adding like so much, you know, to to
21:44
to the work. They put in the page. And it was interesting because
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I think the beginning there's so much like a collaborative process, and for me
21:52
it was like, okay, I wrote those those lines and those stages.
21:56
But it was interesting that every oh, you know, person in the team,
22:00
they just like brought like different you know interpretations for who who the characters
22:06
were, you know. And even for example, Wisdom, he didn't want
22:10
to play the character was with the depressive guy, you know, like who
22:14
is always like one saying no, and so he was always trying to find,
22:18
you know, what's what's the what's the happiness behind well, what's what's
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what's going on in and not in a way that he's just like this one
22:26
old person, but just try and find more of his humanity. And and
22:30
like some other characters, like the souls, had like deep discussions in a
22:34
way like how so how they're gonna you know, interact with how they're gonna
22:40
and they're gonna like interact with the world surrounding them. And then because since
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they're all souls, one couldn't just like you know, look at water and
22:48
say like, oh my god, this is water I never tasted before.
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And the other ones just be like bless a bold water. It's like,
22:52
oh, cool water. But they they would need you with some kind of
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you know saying uh, you know thing kind of energy towards things around it.
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So we have like deep discussions about how would they you know, act,
23:07
and everyone had like reading great ideas in a way because it was pretty
23:11
much like experimental work if you think of it. People who don't have any
23:15
even backgrounds or beast and when we have just find what, you know,
23:19
how they would react to the world else, you know, outside What was
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the hardest day on set for you where you were just like, oh my,
23:27
because we all have it like we're on set, there's that day,
23:30
there's that something that happens. We're just like, how are we going to
23:33
make it through this? There's always something, So what was the hard day
23:37
for you? I think was we hadn't we didn't have a lot of days
23:41
to shoot, so it was like we had twenty three days to shoot everything
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like the pace photography and I remember especially like the less Wishes, the bicycle
23:53
and all stuff so beautiful. It doesn't it's just one page in script or
23:57
have bit, but kind of they take like that a day. But we
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we we we didn't have a lot of days. So I remember we we
24:07
just shot like the bicycle, you know, the beach thing. Everyone said,
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yoh, this is great. It's amazing that the bicycle as well.
24:15
But and then I had this conversation when the producers uh as like producers and
24:19
was you know, doing all the gadeling, saying we're not going to finish
24:22
this, you know, and we're behind, We're behind, we can't make
24:27
it happen. And it was interesting because we wouldn't because later we got some
24:32
more Dave, but it was kind of tough to just like we were we
24:36
were filming something that really felt really special, but we kind of and I
24:40
got it, we can't we can't make it, you know. And uh
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and it was a day that everything kind of went really uh didn't go right,
24:48
you know, and the projection and all stuff. It was just like
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a different, very difficult, you know, thing to handle. So it
24:56
was kind of a I always had this feeling like, oh, we're doing
24:59
some thing special here, but I'm not going to be able to finish.
25:03
Oh yeah, and that day was the representation of that fear. Yeah listen,
25:07
I mean, I mean, I'm sure Francis for Gopola felt the same
25:10
way through Apocalypse. Now, Uh, I mean, I mean that's I
25:15
mean, look two and a half years in the jungle. I mean,
25:18
but we all always I think, I don't I don't know that. It
25:22
doesn't matter what what level you are as and as a filmmaker, there are
25:26
those days that you want to have your vision put up there, but the
25:29
realities of filmmaking it's not easy. And when I saw those scenes with the
25:36
second you said, well, the scenes with with the wishes, I was
25:38
like, oh, yeah, I looked at those scenes and like, those
25:41
don't look easy to shoot. There's a lot of stuff going on, the
25:45
projection, the light, the water. There was a yeah, it didn't
25:48
seem easy, but yeah, that was Those are so beautifully shot too.
25:51
Oh and the music, the music, the music was wonderful. How did
25:56
you how did you find the sound for this film? Yeah? Always being
26:03
like a huge fan of Antonio Antonio Pinto. I don't know if you're familiar
26:07
with his work, but he you work on the Central Station, Seat of
26:11
God. He working all those you know, amazing prosil and you know and
26:15
movies and and I remember his friend of you know, he was working with
26:19
a friend of mine and then got introduced to him and it was amazing.
26:23
Antonio is pretty much like the representation of genius. You know, he's very
26:27
cool guy. We just feels like he's just you know, concerned about the
26:33
of the year and just all of a sudden, you just come with something
26:34
that you know, it's amazing. It was working with them during a pre
26:38
production and most of the songs decomposed before we started photography because he needing the
26:45
songs before we shooting the girl playing the violin, which thought like before I
26:51
started past photography, and it was and first it was just like, yeah,
26:53
let's just camp something like stamp, you know, you compose and then
26:56
later you just composed something you know, worl elaborate for the rest of the
27:00
movie. But the solos were so good that they were just kept kept those
27:04
songs and started just composing, you know, songs based on that that that
27:08
main song. It was just like you know, having skype meanings like the
27:12
same way we're having out. It was just like, yeah, let me
27:15
play something to you, you know, and it was just like getting your
27:19
his instrument or something and just like yeah, and then he say said,
27:22
yeah, I don't know about that it would just like play something else and
27:25
it was just like, oh, yeah, that's exactly. So it was.
27:27
It was just like an amazing work and verse. No, I love
27:33
the aesthetic of what you did with the film, the production design, with
27:37
the vintage everything being vintage, which was such a lovely touch. It wasn't
27:42
super sci fi or or anything like that. It was all vintage and all
27:48
those vintage TVs representing souls lives. But I have to ask you, how
27:55
the hell did you shoot all of all that footage for all the souls that
27:59
are constantly like how did you shoot? Was that during production or was that
28:03
after production? Production? Yeah, pre production almost everything was kind of name
28:08
here because it was I was planning, you know, all the the shoot
28:11
and all the stuff and doing everything prep and then later the day it would
28:17
just like the picture locking, you know, the the stuff, and we
28:21
would shoot like during nine days, like the main thing that would go on
28:25
to TVs. And then after that we were just like started like the heavy
28:29
pro production for print photography, but it would still be adding picture locking the
28:33
stuff that would go on the TV during like Prince photography. So it was
28:38
it was crazy, and we shot in Utah most of the stuff. But
28:41
also we just firm them out, like like shining in Brazil in La So
28:48
most of the stuff that you saw, they were all yeah, it was
28:53
all practical onset too. Most of them were practical on set. But then
28:57
there's some you know, Taylor, some TVs were not like the hero TVs.
29:02
It's called that. They then they were like, uh, comped great,
29:07
yeah they were comped in afterwards. No, it was it was beautiful.
29:11
I just loved the analog aspect of everything that Will was riding constantly in
29:15
the filing cabinet and all that stuff. It was what made by the way,
29:18
what made you come up with that idea of vintage as opposed to the
29:22
Because something like this you could easily have gone sci fi much more sci fi
29:26
esque. So what made you do the whole vintage vibe? I think that
29:33
there's so much about the word and the ceiling that I want people to have
29:37
is it was more so much connected to, you know, the nostalgic feeling
29:42
past, and then it's it's hard for me like what represents my past and
29:48
where presents like my you know, my you know, we'll be right back
29:52
after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show, uh
30:02
years ago, it would be like the eighties. You know, there was
30:06
one white child that happened happened, So I knew that would need something like
30:11
that, and I knew it wouldn't have to be like technological like you know
30:14
X marchin or you know, So that's one way. It would be nice
30:17
to have like this kind of very and then this texture of like wood in
30:21
this structure of like glass and not like you know, iPads or iPods or
30:25
anything like that. And then it created this kind of cost of that.
30:27
I imagine that Will got in prisoned during the time period when he died,
30:32
so like he wouldn't see anything in this house as kind of a goal that
30:37
comes after, so he wouldn't be leading in this eighties. You know,
30:41
a lot of time period for the recipe in existence. It's like stuck into
30:47
it. Will Will Will ever become alive again? I don't know, I
30:52
don't Yeah, I wish you know that's the sequel. There'll be ten days
31:03
now. So okay, so you've you've made this beautiful film. Yeah,
31:07
you you put it all together, have great cast grapes, and then you
31:11
send it out to the festivals and you get the phone call that every filmmaker,
31:17
independent filmmaker wants to get, which is the call from Sundance. What
31:21
was that phone call like for you? It was amazing, you know,
31:25
and it was such a we're we're so working such a time, very short,
31:33
you know, amount of time with schedule because we we shot in September.
31:38
We finished shooting September, and we just had to edit and finish everything
31:42
like a cut to sentence to get into the you know, to screen in
31:48
the festival like January. So it was like very very rush. And remember
31:52
there's so much in terms of pressure and stuff. Yeah it comes from the
31:56
last but it's not you know, not that some films you know, from
32:00
the laps day screen Sundance best way. And I remember it was just so
32:05
stressed, like how I M I knna make it or not. It was
32:08
just in the gym. And that you know, someone who actually was someone
32:13
who went to USC with me, who called me to give me the good
32:15
news and yeah, yeah she she started working a sundance and stuff. And
32:21
it was even job when I started working sundances, like yeah, maybe one
32:24
day you just gonna give me a call or that my film was accept or
32:29
do the Q and A and everything just let me know and give me the
32:32
call, and it just like started Yela and screaming. It is like,
32:36
God, don't believe it. And it's interesting because during the festival she was
32:38
one of the uh the the organizers who didn't like K and A, which
32:45
was very cool. So it was almost like yeah, so it was very
32:50
very very very special. Man. It was it was just like my connection
32:53
with Sundance our uh it was my dream you know, uh becoming Alumli and
33:01
then a dream going to the Fast Winding and and now we you know,
33:05
they're they're always so supportive, they love the movie, you know, and
33:08
I really still like they're they're kind of my family. So it was it
33:13
was great just to there like this very you know, day face and just
33:20
being screening with other people some very where and where did did you screen at
33:23
the Echoes? Screened at the Echoes? What was what was that? It
33:30
was? It was terrible, like it was I just couldn't, you know,
33:35
my stomach not doing well and there was none of my actors watched the
33:42
movie before the screen so and everyone want to stole pump. There is so
33:45
much hype and people all, this is gonna be great. It's gonna be
33:50
I don't know, and no one watched it, so we didn't know what
33:54
would be the reaction is such a different movie, right, so we don't
33:58
know. And it was interesting. I remember remember going to the basketball and
34:02
super nervous, and and then I met Tony Hill there and just said,
34:06
yeah, don't don't don't let don't let what happens you know out there they
34:12
find who you are, you know, and that that was very nice.
34:15
You know, that was something that I think got care for the rest of
34:17
my career. It's like you he was, yeah, because short him like
34:22
we did something special, We did something that was and what they say is
34:25
just like you know, can control whatever and just go there and and but
34:30
luckily you know that people we had like an standing ovation for like at all
34:35
how many minutes people are just crying. People just came to talk to us,
34:38
and and it was it was it was very special. I'm not going
34:43
to give the ending away, but I teared up. I teared up when
34:45
I watched it. I was just like because I didn't see it coming.
34:50
I didn't see it coming until maybe until probably probably about four or five minutes
34:55
before it happened, was like, wait a minute, could that? I'm
34:58
like, oh my god, that's still then, So I didn't catch it
35:00
right away. So that's always something fun because I've seen so many movies in
35:05
my life. It's hard to get one past the goalie in many ways with
35:08
plots, and that was a really nice touch. But oh yeah, I
35:12
definitely tear it up after I watched it. It was it was great.
35:15
The one thing I love about the whole story and the concept is that we
35:20
as human beings are always defining our happiness by the goals that we set,
35:25
Like, you know, we're going to get married. I'll be happy when
35:28
I'm married. I'll be happy when I get that job. I'll be happy
35:30
when I get the sun dance, I'll be happy when I and and your
35:35
story is like, well, the goal is just to get here, which
35:39
is which is an interesting way of looking at it because so many of us
35:45
are born into this world and we think that another in anyways, your film
35:52
says you won, You're here, Now what are you going to do with
35:54
it? Is the question? Yeah, yeah, no, ndred percent isn't
35:59
you see? Because it comes from the you know, the genesis of this
36:04
work or less coming from like going through like some hard times and and and
36:07
and feeling like it you know this this I'm kind of hating what I'm going
36:12
through. But what if? What if this is something just by being here,
36:16
something that's a privilege, you know, And then it'd be so much
36:20
about like the uh trying to aim at some goals and say like when when
36:25
this happens, I will you know? And for really it was the same
36:29
because I remember being advertising and working advertising was just like when I when I
36:32
win the Gold Liar, I will, you know? And I remember like
36:37
exactly the feeling of winning it and then remember like being on the stage and
36:43
saying yeah great and people like, oh congratulations, and when it stept out
36:47
and just when I when I went back home, I just felt like what
36:52
does it means? Meaning thing or something? And it wasn't And I think
36:57
it was one of the moments that I felt like, yeah, maybe I
37:00
shouldn't do something else, which was interesting. Yeah, there's so many times
37:02
that we put so much emphasis on a goal, and when you get that
37:07
goal, there's depression afterwards because you've worked all your life. So people like
37:12
I want the Oscar, I want the Oscar, And I've spoken to people
37:15
who won the Oscar who's just like, after the Oscar, I'm like,
37:17
I was depressed, like where do you? Where do you when you get
37:21
to the top of the mountain? Where do you go? Because if your
37:23
goal of life is to get to the top of the mountain, but the
37:27
goal of life should be enjoying the ride up to the top of the mountain
37:30
and also walking back down and going back up to another mountain and all that
37:34
kind of stuff. So that's a that's a really yeah, And I'm glad
37:37
that you had that experience because if I just had the goal in line,
37:39
look, I got it. Hell, what do I do? What do
37:43
I do now? I'm not eighty five, so my life is not over
37:47
yet. What do I do now? And it's crazy they didn't have to
37:51
sell this, you know. I went back to Brazil and it'saw like what
37:53
do I do now? Because it was pretty much like, this is my
37:58
I want to make my first feature. Then I made my first feature,
38:01
you know, and now then we'll go to theaters and all this stuff.
38:05
And then I say, yeah, and what's what's the what's the point now?
38:08
What's theirs? So what's the next? Yeah, what's next when you
38:12
when you put all the energy in in like goals, because then if they
38:15
you know, happen or don't happen, it's just like so much about about
38:19
it. If it's very interesting that you brought up about the maybe we read
38:23
achieved the goal, right exactly. We're just so caught up in in this
38:29
physical reality that we don't understand that we're like, it's a pleasure, it's
38:32
an honor just to be here. It's kind of like, I'm honored just
38:37
to be nominated. I mean, it's it's nice to win, but I'm
38:44
honored just to be nominated, you know. So no one says that like
38:47
I'm not I'm not to be alive, Yeah, exactly, but most people.
38:52
But the thing is that right now as we're speaking, certain there's there's
38:58
people right now as we speaking leaving this earth, and as we're speaking,
39:04
new souls are coming in. So I promise you that people who are leaving
39:07
many wish that they continue to have the honor of living. So it should
39:13
be something that people, you know, hopefully take away from this film that
39:15
this isn't it really is an honor just to be nominated until it's time and
39:25
until the security escorts you out. Now you know you've ridden this amazing movie
39:31
about the soul's journey. Why do you think we are here? As you
39:37
know? Why do you I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, because
39:40
after this movie, I would love to hear what you think. I have
39:44
no idea, you know, it's just yeah, it's interesting. I don't
39:52
know. Sometimes I sometimes I know, I'm pretty sure you know right as
39:58
a meaning you know, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
40:06
and now back to the show, because I'm pretty much like a half of
40:12
we and Emma. You know, at some moments, I feel like,
40:15
yeah, some moments, I just feel like, yeah, this doesn't make
40:17
any sense, and I think it's just for me. It's just like this,
40:23
and I think it's gonna be for the rest of my life. Like
40:25
there's many or that meaning, there's many or that meaning there's some purpose or
40:30
not purpose. So it's hard for me. Just it's interesting because people come
40:35
to me and say, like, oh, you wrote that movie about you
40:37
know, enjoying the war and stuff, and then there's this day. It
40:40
was just someone was telling me like, oh, lot, how the sunset
40:44
is amazing. That's not right. It's it's not and it's not the it's
40:47
not the Avengers about it, not joking. Yeah, but it's interesting because
40:57
so there's some moments that I feel like, yeah, there's there's that,
41:00
there is pressure, that's kind of energy, and there is like many and
41:04
that, and there there's some some always that just feel very you know,
41:07
sitting you know, both things things, but that but that is that's the
41:13
upside, that's the up and debt. But but isn't that the up and
41:15
down of life? Though? I Mean there's days that you like, you're
41:19
on top of the world, and other days you're like, oh god,
41:22
I forgot to pay that bill now my car got repossessed or something, and
41:24
you're just like and the thing you do is that you're being very optimistic because
41:30
usually really worth Oh I'm being very kind. Yeah yeah, it could be
41:36
yeah, it could be like a million different things that could happen. It
41:38
is, but that is this crazy thing that we call life. Now,
41:43
I'd love to have I'd love to ask this one question of you. What
41:45
do you think your soul's purposes on this on this journey, what you think
41:51
you're here to do for you know, for your not only for yourself,
41:54
but for other people, because this film is for other people, no question
41:58
about it, not only just for yourself. I think. I remember,
42:02
but there's a moment in my life I felt like very you know, lonely
42:09
in a way that it was like I think there's no isolating in a way
42:15
that I was. I felt like it was all by myself, you know,
42:20
there's no one would and it felt terrible. It was in a way
42:24
that I felt like this, it's so disconnected from everyone and everything, you
42:29
know. And I remember I came up with this and there's a writing I
42:36
started thing and it was interesting because especially after writing nine days, I put
42:42
a lot of those feelings on the page and how isolated felt, how desperate
42:46
it felt, how you know, out of hope I felt. And then
42:52
now people who felt the same coming to me and telling like, oh,
42:57
I felt the same way. You know, Oh, is this is something
43:00
that I also win true, you know, and and and and somehow it's
43:05
like so powerful, like I I by showing that, you know, it
43:10
felt that way, it can make people not feel alone, you know,
43:16
because it kind of shared the same feeling. So it was it was interesting
43:21
that I think if I can do anything, you know, look that your
43:25
is so much about uh putting it out and uh and letting people like me
43:31
know that they're not alone, and and that way, I'm also going to
43:36
figure figure out that I'm not alone tohoot. So I think that's that's something
43:38
that that there wants to do. That's that's a great, great answer,
43:44
because there's so many souls or people in this world to feel alone, whether
43:49
it be in their professional lives and their personal lives. And I think that's
43:52
what that's the magic of movies when you watch a character going through something and
43:58
you go, oh, I'm out alone. And that's the brilliance of what
44:01
we do as filmmakers. And I think you definitely nailed it with nine Days,
44:07
my friend. That would I ask you. I appreciate it, And
44:08
I'm gonna ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests, what advice
44:12
would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today. Don't try
44:16
to break into business, I think, just don't think of danger. I
44:21
think the same thing that we were we're discussing here about the goal and trying
44:25
just that. I think it would just tell the story you want to tell
44:30
in something that's not there, you want to see me and then things will
44:36
happen in the consequence, you know. And just you know, keep keep
44:38
doing stuff and and and also don't put your your you know, hopes and
44:44
other people. So maybe if you write something it's very personally, just writ
44:47
in a way that you can do yourself, so you don't don't let your
44:52
dreams in the hands with other people. Just okay, so you know one
44:54
does it? Just do my things right. And so so writing writing a
45:00
script that could be done for one hundred thousand dollars or could be done for
45:02
ten million, Yeah, that's the idea, because if you'll be waiting for
45:07
ten years for that ten million if it doesn't work. Yeah, And it
45:09
just name dropping that there actually was an advice that a Quinting trying tune give
45:14
to me. I mention him because they won a competition like a wileble.
45:16
It was before coming to West twenty twelve. I did like a short and
45:21
then I had changes to sit with him for like thirty minutes and then yeah,
45:24
it was amazing. And then I asked him for advice and he said
45:28
like, yeah, it's pretty much like it was telling me to do the
45:30
same that he did with reserve for dogs, because he would make reserve dogs
45:34
with like I think, forty thousand dollars. Yeah, and you could have
45:37
it, you decrid it. Yeah. So the same way I wrote million
45:40
days, I couldn't make nine days with like one hundred k or something,
45:44
you know. And I think there came now is the new version of forty
45:47
thousand dollars, but with all the inflation and stuff. But then I was
45:52
lucky like him, you know, to find people invest. But if even
45:55
if you know, I didn't find people choosing on invest in my dream,
46:00
I would say, Okay, screw it up. I just gotta make them
46:02
move anyway. So I think that was that was a great advice that I
46:07
just passed for I'm trying to look cool, but I have to admit it's
46:09
not It's not bad advice to pass forward from a from a little from a
46:15
little known director like Winter. Yeah. Now, what is the lesson that
46:21
took you the longest to learn, whether in the film industry or in life.
46:24
Uh, it's still a lesson I haven't learned yet. I think it's
46:30
too uh, leaving more in the moment. The same way that Emma leaves
46:35
in the moment and just enjoy the ride in the way that you know.
46:39
I think Nine Days the movie to remind me of that as well, because
46:45
there's a part of me that, yes, can you can enjoy the moment,
46:46
but there's someone so many you know, it's moments there's hard to you
46:52
know, be past into practicing and I feel like that's the happiness is pretty
46:55
much that, you know. I think that three is just being able to
46:59
just they accept things as they come and and being you know, good with
47:07
what's life's giving you, and not always they can do that. I think
47:09
I'm getting better, but that's something that I'm still learning. I've learned.
47:16
I've learned so where you're talking about it is almost becoming a spiritual master,
47:22
because that's what spiritual like yogis do that like whatever comes to them, they
47:25
just kind of like life is good and that's what we all try to get
47:30
to. Not even nothing is good, but they just accept it. Yeah,
47:32
there's an acceptance life sucks sometimes, but it's just like they're accepted.
47:37
Yeah, a lot of a lot of times life sucks. I think that's
47:40
Uh, don't use that as your marketing for the film. Sometimes life just
47:46
sucks, but sometimes it's just amazing, and I think the combination is right
47:52
and it's yeah, and it wouldn't be amazing if it didn't suck before.
47:55
So it's almost like, yeah, so you need I mean, if you,
48:00
if you, if you were, if you just kept hitting home runs
48:02
all the time, it would be boring. And all them movies are like
48:07
that. You know, someone is like struggling and stuff and then nets to
48:09
see and oh cool, it's great, but you need the struggle. But
48:12
you need the struggle you need or else it is. It's a horrible story.
48:15
If yeah, if if if Luke knew the force at the beginning?
48:20
What's the Boy as bad as? Yeah? Chris? And what are three
48:24
of your favorite films of all time? Oh? My god? It was
48:29
writing a list right now, So I have to put the Matrix on my
48:36
top three as well, Sir. I love I love this movie. I
48:40
love City Lights, Charlie Chopling movie. I love that movie too. He's
48:45
so good man. The other one, I'm I want to put it like
48:49
a yeah, I have seven s and I have a can put the earrings
48:52
of his hore But yeah, I'm so American man. I'm putting all this
48:59
I had to match the Future. There's nothing wrong with that. We're not
49:04
talking about movies that influenced me as a director, but more as movies that
49:07
you know, reflect my childhood. I think those movies are movies there.
49:12
Yeah, I have to put it's a bit. Back to the Future is
49:15
one of the most perfect films of all time. I know, I just
49:16
wanted to, you know, sound a little more art. No, don't
49:20
I know that people are like I don't know, Citizen Kane and Seventh Samurai
49:23
really like I had a friend of who every time I would tell my movies
49:28
and back to you for though, you would just kind of, you know,
49:30
be a little more like snobby. He would be snobbybby. Yeah.
49:35
And then of course I love, you know, love the Seventh Seal and
49:37
love you know, No, I mean, look, I love Seventh Samurai,
49:40
I love High Low and love I love a lot of Kubrick's you know
49:45
films. But you know, but if Back to the Futures on, yeah,
49:51
I'm watching it, you know, if the Matrix on, I'm watching
49:55
to I think more than plenty of time, you like to second one of
50:00
the best. When I was a kid I loved their video facts. Oh
50:04
my god, the future of the field. Oh god, yeah, yeah,
50:07
we can geek out. We can geek out about that. And uh
50:13
and and when is the movie coming out? And where can people see it?
50:15
So yeah, it's already no, actually it's out in the late in
50:19
New York. But now it's coming out to a nationwide uh this Friday,
50:24
this Friday, Yeah, Friday. Yeah, we'll watching. That's awesome.
50:30
Listen. I congratulations on the film. Uh. And I wish you nothing
50:34
but continued success on your journey, my friend, You're you're doing good work
50:37
here. Uh and and and I really do help, I really do hope
50:42
it. It not only entertains people, but makes people think a little bit
50:45
about being just honored to be nominated. Yeah, why you're not even nominated?
50:52
Well, if you're not ever nominated, then you go out and what
50:54
happens to the souls? Happens to the souls? You know, I'm not
50:57
gonna ruin it, but that's when. That's why is when you're not nominated.
51:00
That's true, My friend, thank you so much for being on the
51:04
show. I guess I'll last man. I appreciate it. I want to
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thank Edson for coming on the show and sharing his journey with us. I
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really appreciate it. I implore everybody to go out and watch Nine Days cinematically.
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It is stunning. It is beautifully shot, beautifully acted, beautifully written,
51:20
and really does the job of what a good movie is meant to do,
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which is pull on your emotions and make you feel something. So if
51:30
you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, including
51:32
how to watch Nine Days, head over to the show notes act Bulletproof Screenwriting
51:37
dot TV Forward slash three seventy three. Thank you so much for listening,
51:42
guys, As always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to
51:45
you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.