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Nathalie Miranda | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #156 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
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podcast. Today's guest is a professional
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singer, songwriter all the way from London.
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I don't know why. I said all the way, it's not a,
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it's not a file for me, but might be far from you.
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Her name is Natalie Miranda. Welcome to the show.
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How you doing? Thank you so much Christian.
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I'm good. How are you?
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I'm doing very well. Thank you.
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I've had a bit of a podcasting break as far as recording
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because I had a bit of a crazy schedule where I was recording
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every single day for like, True 15, 20, odd days.
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And then I've had a period of not recording and I'm like, no,
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I'm not. It's and I always enjoy it.
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I always love doing it. But at the same time, now I've
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kind of realized like okay, I think I understand the kind of
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gonna put this schedule. I should go for so as to not
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have too much going on. As I'm sure you can relate, you
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know, when you're doing a lot with music and you get too much
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at one point and you have to kind of just have a day where
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you don't do anything. 100%. I definitely feel that very
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often is that it's like I saw the other day, which I thought
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actually, let's just jump straight into something.
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You said, recently in a video, you posted a video the other
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day, where you basically said, what do you do?
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Because you are asking your audience, you're like, what do
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you do when you're feeling a bit low about yourself about your
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abilities Etc. What do you do to kind of, you
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know, what? Feel good again, you know, like
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feel yourself, relax unwind. And you were sore saying like, I
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like to chill. Listen to music Etc.
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But I was just curious. Like is that like an awful thing
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that you often sort of experience?
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And how do you generally overcome that?
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Because you know, I think you do you do kind of come across as
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quite a confident person and you are you like me?
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You you are very kind of transparent with struggles and
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feelings and stuff like that. But in general like how do you
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overcome that for you? I do, it's a feeling, I feel a
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lot actually, and I'm glad that you think I come across
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confident. But actually, I'm quite quite a
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shy person and I'm somewhere in between.
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I'm kind of I'm extroverted when I'm performing, but when I'm
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sort of me, but it's sort of, you know, in real life.
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I'm gonna get, I'm quite introverted, and I find it
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really hard, especially in today's kind of social media,
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driven world. As an artist to be everywhere,
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do everything be seeming to be creating non-stop content, as
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well as making music, which is the thing that the artists
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should be doing is making the music.
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And, you know, putting the content that the songs out
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there, whatever it may be. So the other day I was feeling
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quite overwhelmed with a lot of stuff I had to do and then I was
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trying to record this vocal and it just wasn't happening.
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And I think I was just Just winding myself up basically.
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And the only way for me to deal with this kind of situation is
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to just step back, take a step back, turn the computer off, go
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and watch a film or, you know, listen to some music and come
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back to it the next day or even the next day after that.
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That's the only way for me to deal with it.
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I can totally relate to this especially when I'm recording
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like music clips or doing a cover or something like that.
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And I'm sure you get the same thing where it's like you come
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into it. And for whatever reason on
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Particular day, you just can't hit that vocal and that's
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something that you communicated actually in that you like just
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can't get it. I don't understand.
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Yeah, it's that. It's the same for me.
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And sometimes I've got two different scenarios either.
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One. I just give up on it for that
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particular day, and come back to it, or to, I get really wound
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up, a walk out, have a glass of water, come back, and I nail it
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in one take. And I'm like, what the hell?
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I just did it for, like, 30 times and every time it's
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sucked. And then that one time
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afterwards, nailed it, but yeah, it's really weird.
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Ed. And I think, also, for me, I
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have a slight red light syndrome.
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So, as soon as someone says, record, or if I'm recording, you
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know, something to camera. I I feel like, oh my God, I
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can't do it. And then, if I'm practicing off
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camera, it's like, yeah, no problem.
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I got it. And then as soon as I'm trying
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to do it again, it's or if I'm recording the vocal, it's really
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weird. But yeah, I totally understand.
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I couldn't say no. You're onto something there.
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Like, I don't think I've ever. This on the show because I've
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had quite a few musicians over over the course of the gosh, 32
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years of the show. Well, there is a difference
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somehow. Like I've noticed this like
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practicing before, you're about to record and it's going.
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Great, sounds brilliant. As soon as you put that red
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button on, it's like just every mistake you can make and
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sometimes like I get this with everything as well.
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Like one thing I've started doing now is whenever I've got
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to do. Like voice acting self tapes.
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Sometimes I do a stream and I showed people like, oh, hey, I'm
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doing this and people seem to be interested, you know, whatever
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different type of content, right?
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But same thing and I sometimes I'll make mistakes anyway,
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because that's just voice acting.
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You know, it's it happens. You know, you should start for
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your words same with music, right?
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But then sometimes it's like like the other day.
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I think I was for a good five minutes as I was like, huh?
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Yeah. It was Hittin.
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And I ignore that there's something to I think, I think
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it's maybe the pressure of the audience, the pressure of the
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occasion, something like that. Yeah, it's really weird.
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But it, but it's especially weird when I record my own
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vocals, right? So I sit here and I record my
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vocals. There's no one else here.
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But I I press them, press recording and there's a mistake
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or something. Then I'm like, okay, stop.
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I'll practice it. I'm like, yeah, I've got it.
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No problem, that I pressed record again, and it's it's not
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there or whatever. It's It's crazy.
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But yeah, it's a weird syndrome. Let's just solve wind it back
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and just talk about your music because I mean music is a huge
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part of your life. I think in many ways.
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You've kind of made it your your lifestyle like it's, you know,
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it's you that's that's you communicating you I suppose has
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a way of putting it, but one thing I want to kind of touch on
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is your kind of musical Journey. So, talk to us about where it
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kind of started and walk us through To this current Point.
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Okay. Sure.
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So I was raised in a household. My mom used to play music all
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the time, all the sort of hips, you know, Whitney riether Queen
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whole load of different things. So I was always around music and
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it was just something I sort of just naturally fell into.
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I started playing the piano when I was about six classically
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trained on the piano. Oh, yeah.
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It's a long time ago now. But I'm grateful for the sort of
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musical knowledge, it gave me but I'm singing was always
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something I did. But in private, I would do it in
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my room. I turn the music up to the Max
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and no one would hear me. My parents didn't didn't know.
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I could sing. Yeah, they had no idea till I
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was about 15 and I'd been writing songs and everything,
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you know, and then we were on holiday one year and I thought
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there's a karaoke night in the hotel and I was like, I have to
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do it, but I do. Do it.
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Now. I'm never going to do it.
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Right? So I got up and I sang
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hopelessly devoted to you from Greece, have my back to the
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audience. Like I didn't want anyone to see
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me. Like I was so embarrassed and it
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went really well. And my parents were like what,
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you know, and I had like a standing ovation which was
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really weird, but it kind of gave me the confidence to it.
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Kind of made me think. Okay.
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Look you've done that. So now let's just carry on, you
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know, so from then on I just, you know, started To perform in
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local events, commute local community events.
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I entered a little low competitions and things made my
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first demos and it just went from there, but it took me a
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really long time to sort of find what I wanted to do, or what I
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wanted to be as an artist the direction I wanted to go and
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also to be comfortable with myself as an artist.
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Because a lot of the artists I admire.
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Sort of growing up where very very right pop and I was trying
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to be like, what was in the current?
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What was the current Trend at the time?
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And that's not me, that's never been me.
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What I do is just it's kind of a little bit Niche but I was
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trying to be like other artists and it just didn't work and I
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didn't have a circle of musicians around me.
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None of my friends were musicians.
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Everything I did was kind of like just by chance or me just
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guessing my way through thing. Things, you know and it wasn't
9:00
until I met my songwriter producer in 2006 that everything
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took a different turn. We kind of just completely
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connected and we knew, he knew what I wanted to do, which was
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kind of Soul Funk, kind of Blues kind of stuff.
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But with a modern twist and that, just from there, we've
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just been writing ever since. And so every song I release as,
9:25
as me, that's Lee Miranda is. Acai right now and I can just be
9:32
myself. And if I want to do a, you know,
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like a country song, I can do a country.
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Some of it was still sound like me.
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If I wanted to do a rock song. It will be a rock song.
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Bit will have my sort of stamp on it, you know, so but it took
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me a really long time to just sort of accept that I do sound
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different. I don't have the usual kind of
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radio-friendly Pop female voice. So that's what it is.
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Taken me a lot longer to get to this point where I'm really
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comfortable with what I do and I make the music that I want to
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make and I just hope that other people will feel something from
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it. No, it's interesting that you
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say that because when I first heard your voice, first thing I
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thought was Avril, Lavigne know not every would be what would it
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be? Maybe I will be no no, no, no
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Christina Aguilera. That's it.
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Right. Okay, straight away.
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And I remember hopping into one of your lives and I was like,
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seeing yes, not give era and you nailed it.
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And that's exactly what you do. And that's why I requested.
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It. Sounds like she'll do this.
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But the point the reason I wanted to bring this up was
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like, I disagree with you, but I disagree with you in the sense.
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I only half disagree with you. So I'll explain what I mean by
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this. Okay?
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In the early 2000s, there was Were quite a few female singers
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like that. I think there was one called her
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name's Anastasia. Maybe I love Anastasia.
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Yeah, but for those who don't know, female vocalist that
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funnily enough, a lot people have made mean comparisons that
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that Jack Black and Anastasia sound the same.
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And now I can't do that. If you hear it, go back and
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check out Asia's big hit from the 2000s.
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And it's like just imagine. Like singing, it's really fun.
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Oh my goodness. But my point is, there were a
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lot of these female singers coming through at that time.
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That had these powerful Rock style voices, but were by all
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intents and purposes pop singers.
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And so if this with the 2000s, I disagree with you, but I will.
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What do you mean? There's this singer?
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This singer, this singer, but these days.
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How many can you really think of it's true.
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There are out there and I think it's less about knuckle lack of
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specifically female rock orientating as I think there's
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just you know that old adage of maybe Rock is Dead here.
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People say that. Sometimes I think one of the
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guests I had on the show Good that's 28 Up episodes ago or so
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he's doing. Like, I don't know how to be a
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sort of a music. That's a blend of the 60s music
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and then kind of early 2000s stuff.
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Right? And he kind of said that like
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the Last hurrah of modern rock was kind of in the mid-2000s to
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be honest, like after that. It was just I mean what's in the
12:34
chance? Now, you've got basically every
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kind of dance remix, you could imagine there's more of a kind
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of Latin Spanish variegated on. Yeah.
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Yeah. That that and that's one Vibe.
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And then you've got a lot of stuff coming through from
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Europe. And then other than that like
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everything kind of sounds the same, and there's not much in
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the way of like, you know, it's weird.
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Like how much things change? Because I remember like it.
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So I'm rambling. I will get to the point in the
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early 2000s that you know, you especially in Britain you had so
13:05
many different styles like you could have like, you know what I
13:08
mean? Like I remember back in the day
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like you could have Metallica and then something like junior
13:14
senior. Yeah one after the other in the
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same show like what? Yeah, but you never see that.
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Yeah. No, I like completely agree with
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you and you know some might say, you know, I'm just like Old, and
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I'm talking like this but it's not, I genuinely feel that music
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is not as diverse as it used to be.
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It's a lot more. I mean like you I remember
13:37
growing up in there was a whole bunch of artists in the charts.
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None of it. None of it was the same.
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You had, you know, you know, rock bands, you had pop, you had
13:46
ballad singers, whatever it was just completely different.
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And I feel like everything sounds, the same now, because I
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think record companies are scared to take risks and this is
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actually another thing. Thing I spoke about on Tick Tock
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recently. Labels don't want to take any
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risks because they want everything ready.
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They want it to be a sure hit kind of thing.
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Whereas years ago. Everything was a risk.
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You never knew. You didn't know what was going
14:11
to happen. You just had to put your money
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on something and if it didn't work, it didn't work.
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Or if it worked, it took off in a big way, but that's that's why
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I think there is no diversity anymore and I'm talking about
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musical diversity here. It's just Everything just seems
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the same and I think that's why artists like myself might
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struggle because I don't make sort of R&B dance-pop kind of
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tracks nothing against them. It's just not what I want to do
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and that goes back to what I was saying earlier.
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I just want to make the music that I want to make.
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I don't want to be told what to do and you know, that will
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probably that's probably made life a bit more difficult for
14:53
me, but, you know, on the other hand, it just means that I'm
14:56
People the music I'm making. So I think it really depends on
15:00
your goals in music because one thing I will say with what
15:04
you're saying is that, I totally agree from the chart perspect.
15:07
Like what's popular? Yeah.
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Sure. It does.
15:10
It does all sound the same but then that's relative because if
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we're talking, what do we mean when we say What's popular?
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Okay. Billboard 100.
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Top-ten, you know, okay, but is that really the measure of
15:26
modern? Yes, I mean, if you look at like
15:27
Spotify as an example, now you getting lots of musicians,
15:31
independent musicians that are becoming big mainstream names as
15:36
far as, you know, they're known by everyone.
15:38
That there was this guy on during the pandemic, a common
15:44
Bridge named Tom something and he famously released the track
15:47
and it was getting quite a lot of views on Spotify.
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And I think he sort of pushed on Tick-Tock.
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That's how he got a. Got it going, where it is now,
15:55
right? He documented his journey of
15:59
like, how it was growing. And he'd said that a lot of
16:02
companies record companies reached out to him.
16:05
Yeah, and they were like if you want this to get to the next
16:07
level, you need to sign with us, and he said, well, I don't want
16:11
to sign with you. I want to keep this music and
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they apparently said to him. Oh, well, if you do it's not
16:17
going to go anywhere. It's going to.
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Yeah. Bail and then it became like one
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of like a god, like 130 million listens or something.
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And he was like, Don't listen to them.
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Do your own thing. Yeah, and like I don't know like
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I feel like going back to my point about the goals thing.
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I think it depends on what your goals are.
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So what are your goals specifically that where do you
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want to take your music? And what are the sort of things
16:45
you are aiming to achieve? And I mean, I would like my
16:50
music to be I guess commercially known.
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Like, you know, it doesn't have to be mainstream kind of thing.
16:57
But because it's, you know, it's probably not sort of top 10 so
17:02
stuff but you never know. You never know.
17:06
You never know. And I guess.
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Yeah, you're right, but I just, I guess I just want I would like
17:13
a larger audience to be listening to my music and I'm at
17:20
my words mixed up. I am an independent.
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Artist. I have no management.
17:24
I have nothing, I did everything myself and that is very hard.
17:30
But equally, I keep all my rights.
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I have control over what I do when I do with whom, you know
17:37
who I work with and stuff like that.
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And I enjoy having that control. So if any major labels did ever
17:44
show interest, I would have a very hard time relinquishing
17:47
that control, you know, I'm not a sixteen-year-old that can be
17:52
molded. Didn't stuff like that.
17:53
I'm I'm a grown woman and I know what I want and I'm not going to
17:58
be forced into signing anything or giving it away any rights and
18:03
stuff like that. So, it is kind of like a
18:05
catch-22 because obviously, you know, having the fat financial
18:09
help or having a manager or whatever, helping you out a bit
18:11
would be great. But when you think about it,
18:14
what you're really giving away, you know, in this day and age,
18:18
it's I don't really think you need labels necessarily anymore.
18:22
More or the majors at least, you know, like maybe smaller
18:25
independent labels, are probably still very relevant.
18:30
But I feel like you can just do so much when your own and it's
18:33
incredibly stressful, but you still can do a whole lot of
18:36
stuff on your own. So, yeah, I totally agree.
18:40
You know, I've had this conversation on the show many
18:42
times. So apologies, if for anyone
18:44
listening said this before, but hey, it's gonna happen, you
18:47
know, we're going to this, because it's an important
18:49
conversation to have, as I've said many times before.
18:52
Yeah, I agree with you. I don't think there is a need
18:55
for major labels. I think there is maybe a need
19:00
for distribution deals. I think there's worse than those
19:02
but as far as like outright ownership or anything, like for
19:07
example, and this is a really rudimentary way of putting it
19:10
and let's just say for argument's sake, let's say you
19:15
come to me, right? And you're like, okay.
19:18
Well I own all this, but I want to employ you.
19:22
To be my, I don't know, social media manager or whatever.
19:26
Like that makes more sense. Build yourself a team people,
19:29
you work with that either work for you.
19:32
Or if they are going to work with you, then there's I don't
19:35
know, tiny car or like working arrangement, whatever like
19:40
basically people you're paying to do that, as opposed to
19:43
someone taking money from you. Like, you know, and that's the
19:47
problem with those do is record companies.
19:49
Yeah, in the past and even, even to this day, you Hear about
19:52
people being locked into contracts that are ridiculous.
19:57
As far as like, they earn their own certain rights to either you
20:03
your likeness, your money, your yeah.
20:05
Music in perpetuity. That's something that I remember
20:08
hearing Dave Chappelle and prints and particular talk about
20:13
was this idea of owning owning you in perpetuity.
20:17
So like yeah and the artist, that's what they call it the
20:20
artist. Yeah.
20:22
Is interesting to me because it's like, yeah, they could pull
20:26
that stuff in the 80's 90's, but these days, I mean everyone's
20:28
self-aware. Like, as you put it, you know,
20:31
it is a lot of hard work. But, yeah, I mean, you see, if
20:35
the only thing is okay to get help to, okay, if the issue is,
20:40
there's only a certain amount of hours in the day.
20:42
And this is my budget, and this is what I need done, then,
20:45
surely the issue is, okay. Just finding a few people that
20:48
will help you with that. And then, yeah, there you are,
20:51
you why? You don't need social media has
20:54
changed the game I guess is my point.
20:55
Like that's it has. Yeah.
20:57
Yeah. I mean the one thing I do when I
21:00
release a single is I have a this PR Company.
21:02
I used just to promote the single because I cannot I tried
21:07
to do it with previous singles and I just didn't have the
21:11
patience to do all the ads and things like that.
21:14
So I just thought, listen, I'm just going to hand this over a
21:17
couple of times a year when I release a single or whatever to
21:19
somebody who knows what they're doing.
21:21
And We'll roll over for a couple of months or however long that
21:25
the the sort of campaigners and then that's it.
21:27
You know, but everything else is I do.
21:31
And, you know, it is an it's nice to, you know, to accept the
21:36
interviews. I want to accept, or, you know,
21:39
do the videos I want to do, whatever, you know, so, it's
21:43
nice knowing that you have that power, and I think, I think
21:46
that's what social media 11. Positive thing.
21:49
Social media has done is given the power in Um, form back to
21:53
the artist, I think, you know, I don't, I can't believe I've
21:56
never asked any of my independent musician guests
21:59
this. But what you were talking about?
22:01
Just kind of reminded me like, okay, since you don't have like
22:05
a company telling you like, what you should go on this show, you
22:08
should interview this person. Like how do you decide where to
22:13
be interviewed or who to talk to or who to, but how do you come
22:17
to that decision? All kind of criteria, I suppose,
22:20
dear. I guess it's just like like, for
22:24
example, with with yourself, you know, we sort of met on
22:27
Tick-Tock. We're having a chat, you know,
22:28
we obviously had things in common, we've got on, you know,
22:32
and so when you asked me to film the show, I had a listen as well
22:36
and it was like, yeah, that's cool, you know, kind of thing.
22:38
So yeah, stupid a research as well, right?
22:41
Because sometimes sometimes you just don't have the same energy
22:45
as someone else as well. You know, I have done interviews
22:49
through my through the PR Company.
22:50
When they've had in. Of use for my single releases.
22:54
And I've had some interviews that I've accepted because of
22:56
his coming through them that I do them, but they're not,
23:02
they're not especially interesting or they're very
23:04
simple basic questions. And I mean everything you do is
23:08
the risk, right? But but when I with with things
23:11
like this, when people contact me directly, you know, I will
23:14
just check out their page and see what they do and see the
23:17
kind of things. They might ask me and things
23:19
like that. So, Yeah, what's your like worst
23:24
experience of an interview? You don't have to give specifics
23:26
obviously? Like it's something where you
23:28
would just sit there. Like, what doing here?
23:34
I haven't had anything like, really bad in the sense that
23:38
it's been. Like, oh my God.
23:39
I have to stop this right now. But, you know, some interviews
23:43
can be just like, it's very clear.
23:45
They haven't done any research on you and they don't know, they
23:49
don't know, I just interject for one second.
23:51
Blows my mind, how can you do it is you and not do your research?
23:55
That's like 10, what? Come on my mind and it's just
24:00
like, you know, like even down to a basic thing like they might
24:03
say my name wrong. They might say they might call
24:06
me Miranda when it's quite clear on all platforms that it's
24:10
Natalie Miranda, Right. Some people just ignore the
24:13
Natalie or yeah. Oh, yeah.
24:17
All the time or or they might say so your most recent.
24:21
Engel red light, for example, which came out five years ago,
24:24
and you're just like, right. Well, that was like five years
24:29
ago, you know, it's just things like that, but it kind of and
24:33
then because I don't I have to kind of style it out, you know,
24:36
as the interviewee I feel like, oh, yeah.
24:38
Well, that's one came out five years ago.
24:39
But yeah, you know, that was cool or whatever, you know, and
24:42
kind of just smooth it over without Mercy without being
24:45
rude. Oh, no, I mean, I think it's
24:47
good. You have a good attitude to it.
24:49
I think if that was me, I'd be a bit halfway in.
24:53
Come on, man. Like yeah.
24:57
Yeah, keep up with the time. I don't know.
24:59
I just, I know. Yeah, I mean, but I know I've
25:04
been lucky. I haven't had any complete
25:05
disasters in terms of interviews, but no, I mean,
25:09
yeah, it's all good. Let's talk a bit about your sort
25:16
of your, I suppose, your music career so far, like, have you
25:21
previously signed with record labels.
25:23
I know you've shared some experiences on ticked up, which
25:27
I kind of purposefully didn't look into because I wanted to
25:30
kind of maybe we'll share them here.
25:33
But I want to kind of get an idea of the good and the bad of
25:36
what you've experienced in the music industry so far.
25:40
Yeah. Sure.
25:40
No, I've never been signed. So far, I've never had
25:43
management or, or been signed to a label of any kind.
25:47
It's always just been, you know, a big, big old struggle for me,
25:53
you know, in the early days. I would just send out CDs, you
25:56
know, I just literally get like was called the music management
25:59
by board and if it still exists, but it was a book full of
26:02
addresses or record labels and managers and things like that.
26:05
So I would literally just mail out a whole bunch of people with
26:08
my my CD but never hear back from.
26:12
From them, you know, I did I did all the gigs around London or
26:15
the open mics. I've been doing it for years and
26:18
I never had any kind of break until the.
26:21
This is what you might be talking about.
26:22
The whip, but you saw him Tick Tock.
26:24
I did get scouted once by someone from Universal.
26:28
Oh, cool. I was doing this gig in this
26:30
really random place in town and there was a guy there and he was
26:33
like, yeah, you know, you're really good and added a gave me
26:36
his card and it was we know we're having a really
26:39
interesting chat and Ask me about my background or whatever
26:43
and he was like, okay. So here's the thing.
26:48
I really like your sound and you know, it's all really cool.
26:50
But your actual life story is really boring and I was like, I
26:55
remember you talking about these three, get God.
26:58
Yeah, and I was like, I don't quite understand what you mean
27:01
and he's like, well, you know, you're educated.
27:04
You went to University. Come from a good family.
27:07
There's no trauma or anything. That's not really going to sell
27:10
records. And I was like, Isn't it the
27:13
music that's going to sell the records?
27:14
Like I miss something here. Like, isn't it?
27:16
The, the song? And he's like, oh, yeah, but
27:19
like, you know, we need to like, promote you and let you know,
27:21
press and all that. And I was like, well, I don't
27:23
understand what you want me to do.
27:24
He was like, okay. How about your dad is a cabbie
27:29
right? Your dad's, the black Cabbie,
27:31
and your mom, just like Works in shops and stuff like that, you
27:36
know, just like I really like hard done by family kind of
27:40
story. I'm like, what, you know, And
27:43
he's like, and and who gets into your dad's cab Simon Cowell.
27:46
And I'm like, Are we really having this conversation?
27:49
Like first of all, you expect me to lie about my family, which I
27:54
would never do. I'm very proud of my parents and
27:57
everything. They've done for me.
28:00
Second of all, I don't really want to be involved with sunk.
28:04
I don't want that name involved with me and also just like what
28:08
are you like are you actually serious?
28:10
Like I'm not going to do that and he was like, well, you know,
28:13
we can't really kind of proceed and unless you willing to sort
28:16
of change. Story up a bit.
28:19
I was like, I mean also, you know, I have friends and family
28:24
who would know that that's a complete lie.
28:26
Why would I do that for the sake of a me?
28:28
Like a brick wall climb? It was just mad mad.
28:31
So that was the only brush with the record company I've ever
28:34
had. See the craziest thing about
28:37
this, right. Is it's not like the 1970s where
28:40
like you could like maybe make this up and then, you know,
28:43
somehow get away with it. Like this is the modern day.
28:48
Day, like, it's that, that stuff is easily proved false, you
28:54
know, and then and then that's the thing.
28:56
It wouldn't make the record company.
28:57
Look bad. It just make you look bad.
28:59
Yeah. Yeah.
28:59
Yeah. Yeah, it was it was incredible
29:03
and, you know, I mean like it, it's hilarious.
29:05
Now when I think about it and I even wrote a song about it after
29:08
after actually happened, but it was that's that's the only brush
29:13
with any record companies I've ever had.
29:15
And apart from that. I've just been doing my thing
29:17
writing. Things working with different
29:20
people and in the more recent times just before the pandemic
29:26
happened. I got involved in writing dance
29:28
tracks, like house music. So I'd get produced this sending
29:31
me tracks and eyebright, right? The Top Line basically and then
29:35
put my vocal on it and it started off being.
29:38
I would just be unnamed, it would just be the song, you
29:41
know, but then I worked with the same people a few times and then
29:45
it eventually was so and so featuring that Miranda kind of
29:48
thing. And then other people would hear
29:50
me and I'd get more writing work from that.
29:52
So that was really good for me during the pandemic as well,
29:56
just to sort of get loads of those out, you know, as well as
30:00
doing my own thing. And yeah, I mean, it's just I'm
30:06
just still doing my thing. I'm still sort of sort of
30:09
hammering away at this this kind of dream I've had, since I was
30:13
really small. I know that industry has changed
30:16
a lot like that kind of fan. So you might have a performing
30:19
at Wembley. So like thousands of people
30:23
probably won't ever happen for me, but I still love performing.
30:29
I love writing music. I love recording music and it's
30:33
always something I'm going to do.
30:35
Whether I achieve what I want to achieve in terms of fan base or
30:39
International sort of, you know, fame or whatever you want to
30:45
call it is, is irrelevant, really?
30:47
Cuz I'm just going to carry on doing what I'm doing.
30:50
And hopefully there's someone out there that that enjoys
30:54
listening to my music and they'll tell a friend and
30:57
someone else were here, you know, so yeah, I think I think
31:02
the way I've looked at it for several years now is that I want
31:05
to make the music. I want to make and if anything
31:08
else happens, then that's a bonus, you know, whether it's a
31:11
song in a film, or someone else, taking my song and singing it
31:15
and making it a success whatever.
31:17
It's I think that's just the way I've had to view it to kind of
31:22
stay sane. But yeah, I will say this
31:27
because I've been writing music for a long time.
31:29
I've been a musician for a long time with myself.
31:33
Yeah, and this is just objective.
31:36
Like I I truly think you write very good music and I think that
31:44
Well, was couple of things I want to say, which I think it's
31:47
not just aimed at you. It's aimed at anyone.
31:49
Listen to this as well. Make sure you never give up on
31:52
that dream. Like always keep chasing that
31:55
Joe. I can totally relate to how you
31:56
feel. Even before we came on this show
32:00
today. I saw that I'd like lost a bunch
32:02
of subscribers and all that. And you know, I saw that my
32:05
latest podcast after I'd advertised it only got like a
32:09
few listens and it got frustrating.
32:11
And then I started thinking about, you know, what like
32:14
There's at least three people, the sat down and checked out
32:18
this podcast. That's amazing.
32:21
And then I started thinking about like why I do this but
32:23
what I'm trying to achieve, you know, because it'd be very easy,
32:27
you just interview people and you know pump out content and
32:31
whatever. But like I take pride in trying
32:33
to share people's life stories. Share inspiring Tales, like look
32:38
at the things. People have learned and share
32:39
that with the world and have a proper conversation with someone
32:43
and And you know bring it back to the music side of things like
32:47
Natalie. All it takes.
32:48
Is that one track? Yes 12.
32:52
And and here's the thing, like you'll never be like a one-hit
32:55
wonder because like you write good music and what you saw
32:58
demonstrated so far is that you have this life in music you do
33:04
you're a song and I think this is an important distinction that
33:07
people don't always necessarily realize.
33:08
There's a big difference between being a musician and being a
33:11
songwriter. You can definitely be both.
33:13
But being a songwriter means you can do it kind of opens up
33:19
possibilities as far as the music industry is concerned.
33:21
So writing, Jingles, writing music for other video games, for
33:27
TV shows, whatever. That's like one part of it, and
33:30
you mentioned that you did some of this work during the
33:32
pandemic. I know that you've also done is
33:35
it coursework or there's some sort of thing that you do that.
33:40
You've kind of said, like all this is just a thing that I do.
33:43
Oh, sir. Session.
33:44
Work session. Well, yeah, but you're not just
33:46
like infused of it. Like it's obviously love to
33:49
perform but it's like, no. Yes, right.
33:51
So that but this is a source of income.
33:53
This is a source. Yeah, and then there's what
33:56
you're doing here, which is the main thing you're trying to
33:58
really really push and go for and I think that you know, you
34:01
just have to keep pushing and it's something will resonate,
34:04
you know, I mean it will happen and we're for God's to.
34:09
I truly believe that like that. I've been doing this podcast
34:12
about two years now. I've been pushing for my dreams
34:16
and goals for like three years going on four years.
34:19
Now. I know the struggle.
34:21
I know it's like sometimes it's like I don't know it's but this
34:25
is part of the journey, you know, if it if it were easy,
34:28
what would we learn? You know, I think if anything it
34:31
probably would make you appreciate it more when you get
34:35
to where you want to get to, you know, yeah, but anyway, yeah,
34:39
don't give up on that drink. So I think that's it.
34:43
But it but it does. Bring me on to my next question,
34:45
which is you were able to, obviously transition from a say,
34:50
a day job to doing music full-time.
34:53
So this is kind of a two-part. I guess.
34:56
I'd like to know a little bit about like what you did before.
34:58
You sort of made music, your full-time career.
35:03
And also what can you tell us about the transition from that?
35:06
And what that was like and how you did that?
35:09
Because obviously, it's quite a scary thing.
35:10
Like, you know, I do freelance work, which I can tell you.
35:14
Is never secure. I mean no career.
35:16
Is Everest really truly secure but it is scary because it's
35:19
like, yeah, you don't have work one week.
35:22
It's like, well, just not getting paid.
35:24
So we know. Yeah, what can you tell us about
35:26
those things? Okay.
35:28
So I before the pandemic, I had been in a part-time job.
35:34
I was an HR assistant, okay? For about three and a half years
35:39
and in a law firm. Wow.
35:42
Yeah. And I was furloughed.
35:45
So I kind of was immediately flung into a case of.
35:51
Oh, I've got a lot of free time. Now.
35:54
What am I going to do? Kind of things?
35:56
I didn't know when they would when, or if they would ask me to
35:59
go back to work. So I either had two choices, I
36:03
could just completely do nothing and be just like watch TV all
36:07
day or just really go hard into my music and that's what I did.
36:12
I Practice my vocals. Like I've never had time to
36:16
before because I never had the time I'd be at work 8:32 six
36:21
three times a week and then the other days I be doing my music
36:24
but it wouldn't give me the time.
36:26
I needed to do what I wanted to do.
36:27
So I really went hard with that. I learn how to play the guitar a
36:32
little bit and I say a little bit like four chords.
36:37
I really learnt more about recording, myself recording my
36:41
vocals more and I did a lot of that with, with the house.
36:43
House music that I was writing recording.
36:48
I really went into social media in a way.
36:50
I'd never done before the pandemic.
36:52
I was live streaming on all the platforms and doing a lot more
37:00
sort of videos at home, you know of me singing covers some of my
37:04
songs as well. And I wrote my song Catch-22
37:09
during that first lockdown as well.
37:11
I wrote and recorded that and I think Having all that time,
37:15
really allowed me to just find what I wanted to do the music.
37:20
I wanted to make the releases I'd had before that point were
37:23
good, but they weren't really me.
37:26
They were kind of more geared towards a, what you classify as
37:30
a pop track. Whereas what I like to do is a
37:34
little bit more dramatic. So Catch-22 was the result of
37:39
that. They asked me to go back to work
37:42
in August of 2012. NT.
37:44
And I that time I decided I didn't want to.
37:46
So I handed in my notice, I had to work the notice, but when I
37:52
left, I felt a big weight off my shoulders.
37:55
And yeah, it was very scary because I didn't have that money
37:58
coming in anymore. But I had to find other ways of
38:03
doing it. So, I found this tap on called
38:04
stage it.com, which has completely changed my life.
38:09
I, I'd highly recommend it to you as well.
38:11
It's just a platform for So whatever it is you do, if
38:15
you're, if you're a guitarist, a singer, someone who likes to
38:19
talk or poetry whatever. And from that I've been able to
38:24
make some good money from that sort of selling tickets.
38:28
Getting the tips. I managed to buy a Mac Book
38:33
earlier this year, from the money I earned last year, which
38:36
I would never would have been able to do without.
38:40
So, yeah, it's still tough. Like I have to, you know, when
38:42
I, when I'm coming up with a single realize, I have to make
38:45
sure I've got the money put aside for my PR work or
38:48
whatever. Everything has to be calculated
38:52
but it feels good to know that I have 24 hours to do everything I
38:58
need to do. I don't have to worry about
39:00
going to the office or coming back or that kind of thing, you
39:03
know, but it is tough. Like I said, but it's that's why
39:10
you had to take days off. The sure you have to take some
39:12
time off it. Even if Just to sort of go into
39:15
town for one day and just get a different scenery.
39:21
Yeah, so that's how I made the transition and live streaming.
39:26
Really did change a lot for me. I was able to reach a bigger fan
39:29
base internationally and make an income from it as well, which
39:34
has been amazing. So yeah, I guess that's what I'm
39:39
doing still doing and yeah, it's incredible.
39:43
Well, I mean, yeah, I think about my own experiences as
39:47
well. I really relate to what you're
39:49
saying, because I think one thing that should be really
39:52
stressed here. Is there is that fear there?
39:54
Is that kind of concern of like, oh, well, you know, I won't have
39:57
this regular income and like, what will happen and, you know,
40:01
it's, I think it's a case of firstly overcoming that fear.
40:06
Secondly, as you say, realizing there are a certain amount of
40:09
hours in the day, there are different things.
40:11
We have this amazing resource the internet which You know, I
40:14
do everything online, everything.
40:15
I do. All the work I do is online and
40:18
it kind of blows my mind sometimes because I think about
40:21
all the years. I worked in customer services
40:23
and all that stuff. And, you know, and then I think
40:27
about I was getting paid peanuts to do that.
40:30
Whereas, like, now, I'm doing things like writing articles
40:33
doing voice acting and they'll pay me for that.
40:36
I know. What is this thing with music.
40:39
It's like, wow, I wrote, I wrote this in my room or my house and
40:43
it took me like, Like, however, much time.
40:44
Sometimes, things are shorter sometimes longer and they paid
40:47
me x amount of money and it's like, yeah.
40:52
Yeah, it's the yeah, you got to take that risk on yourself.
40:55
Got take that bet on yourself, you know.
40:57
Yeah, and I think what you just said about the fear is another
41:01
thing that I had to go through when I had to make that
41:03
transition from part-time job to support a musician.
41:07
I was terrified and I wanted to quit the job for years.
41:10
Almost after I started going to quit it.
41:13
But it was the fear of putting which is why I never did it.
41:18
And I'm a friend of mine, recommended this book, Feel the
41:20
fear and do it anyway, and I tell all my friends about it.
41:24
It's not it's not a self-help self-help book at all.
41:28
It's not preachy in any way. It's just really to the point
41:32
matter of fact and I read it and I went, I do all of that.
41:35
I always say, yeah, once I've got this, I'll do that or when
41:39
this happens. I'll do this, you know what I
41:41
mean? And the whole point of the Look
41:43
is just obviously, like, you know, within reason just do it.
41:48
You're not going to know if you don't do it.
41:50
So so I read it and it inspired me to take the decision to quit
41:54
my job. And I mean, it really was the
41:57
best thing. I I would have been even without
42:01
the pandemic. I would have ended up quitting
42:02
eventually, but you need you need to kind of just weigh
42:07
things up. You know, you're never going to
42:08
have the perfect scenario in which to do whatever it is.
42:12
You need to do. So you need such as kind of
42:15
weigh things up. This is where gauging into your
42:18
kind of your expertise and your knowledge and experience.
42:23
What advice could you give to aspiring songwriters and
42:26
musicians? I think from my own experience.
42:32
I would say, just you have to believe in yourself.
42:36
You really have to believe in what it is, you do, you have to
42:41
just block out all the noise that's coming from whoever it is
42:45
that doesn't want you to do it, whether it's haters or whether
42:48
it's, I don't know, friends or family that never think you'll
42:51
know you're going to achieve what you want to achieve.
42:53
You have to have that belief within yourself and you have to
42:57
just never give up. You have to just keep going.
43:00
And I had a problem at sort of in my sort of teens and early
43:06
twenties. I just didn't, I didn't believe
43:08
in myself and I see that now, I really didn't and I think maybe
43:12
if I'd had the attitude I have now back then maybe I would have
43:17
sort of sped things up a bit for myself and maybe I would have
43:19
found found different opportunities that opened up
43:22
different doors for myself. But yeah, I would say that
43:27
believe in yourself and never give up.
43:30
Would you? Issei would like the key steps.
43:33
You took all the things that you did to kind of take yourself
43:36
from this person, but didn't believe in themselves to this
43:39
person, you are now like, I know that that is a journey.
43:42
I know it's not something that just happens overnight.
43:44
But like, what did you do? Because I know, I know, I know
43:48
it's goes back to what I said at the beginning.
43:49
Like, you know, I said that you came across as confident, like,
43:53
and people say the same thing about me too.
43:55
And I kind of recognize that you're probably someone who does
43:58
doubt themselves, but you never know.
43:59
You never know, sometimes people.
44:00
I really do believe in themselves and that's an amazing
44:03
powerful thing. And I think people should always
44:05
try and believe in themselves because everyone is talented and
44:08
has something to offer a truly believe that.
44:10
But yeah. Yeah.
44:11
How did you, how did you take those steps and make that kind
44:16
of that journey to where you are.
44:18
Now? As far as confidence is
44:19
concerned. So I'll just start by saying I
44:24
still doubt myself every single day, but I have this like, I
44:27
have this crazy thing somewhere in me.
44:30
That's just say, So don't don't give up, don't give up.
44:32
Keep going. Keep going, right?
44:33
So that's what that's what I do. I think it's just I think it's
44:39
just, you know experiences. It's sort of getting as you get
44:42
a bit older as well. You learn to just sort of,
44:46
you're going to turn down all the peripheral kind of crap
44:50
that's going on around you or, you know, be with the the people
44:55
that make you feel good, whether it's your friends or family,
44:58
surround yourself with people that do actually You that are
45:01
going to give you the confidence and the motivation to be the
45:06
best, you can be whatever it might be.
45:09
You know, I'm lucky enough. I do have a very supportive
45:13
family and I have great friends that, you know, I might say.
45:17
Oh, that was really that was crap.
45:19
They'll be like, you're crazy, you know, just just carry on,
45:21
you know, kind of thing. So, yeah, I think, I think it's
45:26
just that just with a bit of experience as you get older but
45:30
more Sort of learning more about the world and stuff like that.
45:35
But yeah, I know, I am I'm saying, I believe in myself and
45:39
I'm never going to give up, but obviously, I do still like the
45:43
other day. I thought I was the worst singer
45:45
in the world because I can't get this thing the way I want to do,
45:50
you know, it's like I have days like that, but then I have to be
45:53
like, no, hang on. Okay Dawson.
45:55
It's okay. It's okay.
45:56
I'll come back and I'll do it, you know, so yeah, it is a
45:59
constant kind of Back and forth. But ultimately, I do, I do
46:04
believe in my music and I think that's, that's an important
46:08
thing to do. It's a powerful thing to believe
46:11
in oneself and it really is a battle.
46:15
I completely agree with you. I feel exactly the same and, you
46:19
know, it's, it's interesting perception as well and
46:21
self-perception, because when I saw you posted that video, I was
46:24
like, is she insane? She's an amazing singer, but I
46:27
got it. I understand the feeling because
46:29
I have those days. Days to sometimes I'm like, oh,
46:32
I'm so worthless. I can't do it.
46:34
Yeah. Yeah.
46:35
Yeah. And then but it's not true.
46:37
It's just a feeling it's and it's also I think this is
46:41
something we touched on before, but I want to just briefly touch
46:44
on it. I think it definitely depends
46:45
how you define success because someone said this to me recently
46:49
in a live stream and it kind of clicked in my head.
46:54
They said well, how are you not a success?
46:56
And I explained all, I don't know if the numbers I'd like and
47:00
I don't do this. And I don't do that.
47:01
But then afterwards, I sat down and I really thought about it
47:03
and I was like, no, I am a success.
47:05
I might not be exactly where I want to be now.
47:09
But when I compare where I was in my life, ten years ago, five
47:13
years ago, even I'm like, oh my God, like, wow, like I'm, I'm
47:17
doing it, you know, I would say the same to you like you're
47:20
doing it. You are in the music industry,
47:22
you are an independent musician that gets paid to sing and
47:27
perform and write music like you're living the dream.
47:30
You're just not quite at the exact level, you want to be yet.
47:33
But, you know, I think it's important to kind of ground
47:35
yourself once in a while and be like, you know, what, I am doing
47:37
it and doing it and one and one day, it's going to pay off in a
47:43
big way for me. And I think that can only happen
47:46
through consistency as well. Definitely.
47:49
That's the thing I need, and it's tired.
47:51
I get it. It's tiring.
47:52
It is one of those things that to constantly believe in
47:55
yourself, is, you know, we're human.
47:58
It's exhausting. Yeah.
48:00
No, you're right. You're right.
48:02
I totally agree. It's not easy.
48:05
And, and and the worst thing as well as in those moments of
48:09
those difficult times. I mean, that's when you pay more
48:12
attention to the critics as well, which is the stupidest
48:15
thing to do. But it's inevitable.
48:17
You and you are your own worst critic and you know, oh, yeah,
48:20
but that's when you start paying attention and you should never
48:24
pay attention to that. It's like you said, before you
48:26
gotta pay attention to the ones that are celebrating you and the
48:29
ones that are Supporting you and focus on them and create for
48:34
them. Yes.
48:37
Let's as we sort of wanted things done.
48:39
I got a couple of questions for it's like General kind of life
48:43
experience and stuff like that. So it's kind of gauge your mind
48:45
as far as that's concerned. What's the best advice you've
48:48
ever received? I think, I think it's going to
48:57
be never give up and believe in yourself.
49:00
Again. I think it's going to be the
49:01
same. Yeah.
49:03
Yeah. No, perfect.
49:05
I mean it's I think of it, we've spoken about it quite a lot
49:09
throughout this this episode. But, yeah, I think if there's
49:12
nothing as if there's one thing that you take away from this
49:14
episode, don't give up. What's the biggest life lesson
49:20
you've learned so far. Don't be so trusting.
49:27
Mmm. Thank you.
49:30
I was very guilty of that for many years.
49:34
I'm, I'm the kind of person. I'm quite unquiet, kind of
49:38
transparent, you know, like I was like, what you see is what
49:41
you get with me. I'm, you know, and I kind of
49:45
expected the same of people in the past.
49:52
And it, you know, I didn't get the same treatment, you know,
49:55
and again, my sort of circular friends is got smaller over the
50:00
years. You realize who's really there
50:02
for you and who really cares for you and stuff like that.
50:06
And yeah, I think he kind of just sort of take everything
50:10
with a pinch of salt. No II do anyway, nowadays.
50:15
I kind of just have to, you know, think twice before I will
50:19
sort of To trust in somebody. I think that's how I totally
50:24
agree. It's funny.
50:26
I was actually saying this to my house made the other day and I
50:29
hope you took it in the right way because I meant it when I
50:32
said to him or I think I consider us now as friends, but
50:35
I didn't before but not in a mean way.
50:37
I liked you. It's just for me friend is a
50:41
strong word. Yes.
50:43
And it, you know, and it's because of being burned in the
50:47
past having bad experiences, but what you've said is spot-on, I
50:50
know you're coming at it from different experiences.
50:52
So like some of that will be the music industry.
50:54
Some of that would be just people in life, in general
50:57
whatever. But it's so true.
50:58
Like people can say what they want.
51:01
But you know, you get vibes from people.
51:05
Yes, you know, you can get you can pick up and certain things
51:09
just because someone saying things that you want to hear
51:11
that doesn't necessarily mean they have your best intentions
51:14
at heart. I mean, I've had two even
51:16
recently, I've had people that came into my life.
51:20
Everything seemed great. And the next minute I realized
51:23
they were like twisted or they were, you know, like not meaning
51:31
well for you. That's nice.
51:33
Assisting. I think you have to be very
51:35
weary of and and you know what you said at, who you tell
51:38
certain things to want to use, they, you know, because I'm
51:43
totally going over as well, you know, being transparent and then
51:46
that, you know, then people know too much about you.
51:49
You. And it's like, yeah, it's
51:51
difficult to manage that sometimes.
51:53
But yeah, yeah, totally agree with that one.
51:57
As we do things to a close for today.
51:59
Do you have any upcoming projects or some final thoughts
52:02
that you'd like to share with our listeners?
52:05
I definitely have more singles coming out this year.
52:08
One of them will be a single in Greek.
52:12
I am Greek cypriot. So I'm very proud of that.
52:17
So I wanted to write a song. In Greek is very important to me
52:21
to do that. So it's done.
52:23
I just need to film a video for it and that will be coming out
52:26
in the next couple of months. Hopefully, I've also got a new
52:30
English single coming out at some point.
52:33
That is that's also recorded. We just need to, you know, mix
52:37
it or whatever. And then they'll be a video for
52:39
that too. Definitely more house, music
52:42
house and dance music. That's kind of an ongoing thing.
52:44
That will always be just in the background and Yeah, I guess
52:50
that's. It.
52:51
Really. Just keep doing what I'm doing.
52:53
Making more music. And yeah, brilliant.
52:59
Well, it's been an absolute pleasure.
53:00
Having you on the show. I wish you all the best.
53:02
I believe in you. We all believe in you and to all
53:08
the listeners of the Christian we've podcast.
53:10
As always be safe. Be well, and I'll see you in the
53:13
next one.