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Creating Better Leaders Through Self-Awareness with Loubna Noureddin · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Everyone, it's a Roxander Derhodge of authentic, living with Roxanne.
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Thanks for tuning in again this week.
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Today, I have a special I would say a friend now colleague that, I share a writing group
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with, and this is LUNA Noren.
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Am I seeing that last name?
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You're right in.
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You're right in.
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So is in a very warm place.
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So I'm jealous.
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I should tell you she's in Florida.
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And that's where she, resides presently.
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So I'd tell you a little bit about her.
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She's has quite, you know, extensive background in organizational leadership.
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She's a CEO of MindMarket Consulting.
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And she has extensive experience working with teams and groups, from boards to c suite
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executives and their teams she brings a global experience in health care, higher education and
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government.
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She holds a doctorate in organizational leadership, with an emphasis on culture change,
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and she's faculty presently at Berry University in the is at human resources departments,
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program and is the past prince presidents of the ICF federation in South Florida.
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And she has, I, you know, her dream, which I think is, phenomenal.
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I would love to talk to you a little bit more about it.
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It's support a 100 orphans from West Africa through college and career transitions.
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What a what an amazing, goal to have LUNA.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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I was born in Sierra Leone West Africa.
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So and I've seen the poverty actually, sirion right now is the, poorest country in the world,
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according to latest from, United Nations.
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So I do have a dream.
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I'm helping out right now.
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We're very close, and it's now through informal circles.
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It has not been formal, but my my goal is to use, you know, any profit from within my
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company to toward that goal.
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So, I've been there.
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I've lived in Sierra and I've lived in Nigeria, and I've lived in Lebanon as well.
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So there's there's an attachment to West Africa that is very special for me.
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So tell us tell us about your story.
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Like, I know a little bit, but I think it's a fascinating story, and I'd love for you to
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share it with, with our lannisters about your beginnings and, what puts you now in Florida
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doing what you're doing.
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So start tell me start wherever you'd like.
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Alright.
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Alright.
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So, you know, I know a thing or 2 about change, Roxanne.
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We about change and the pandemic and the and people who have been through hardships have a
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better way of being adaptable to what happening today.
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So we we notice a lot of struggle around the world because of this huge change.
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But to us, people have been through change themselves.
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We feel more resilient about it.
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So at the age of ten, I walked to the hut and of a rifle pressed on my forehead.
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I was then in Sierra Leone, you know, unwelcome visitors do show up in our lives at our
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doorsteps, but in my case, it was ripples from neighboring countries.
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And they were coming in to get anything they could get their hand on.
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So but we were lucky.
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My family and I managed to flee into the darkness of a nearby jungle.
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And the life we had along with my childhood teddy bear were left behind.
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And change can come to any of us at any time, and our agenda rarely has concerns for what you
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hold dear.
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The horrific walk we had, it was also magical in a way because sometimes what is not so great
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brings up things that are super great.
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So we were found by a tribe of non cannibals as we flee through the jungle, and I'm not
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kidding, and one younger tribesman to get upon himself to save and took us through wilderness.
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And a map only he knows because there was no way a modern person would survive.
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The the map that we went through.
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And I watched him blow dust on animals that were too scary to even fathom in that journey.
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So I do believe in magic.
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And for those of you who are not comfortable with the word magic, it's that phenomena of
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hope that comes with extraordinary outcomes, when you're in a doing situation.
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Just like we are today, there has been so many magical moments, so many opportunities for
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people through a very doomed situation.
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And this was only my first war, Roxanne.
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So because, my second was Lebanon during most of my school years and my college year.
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And, there was a time when it it became too dangerous for us to survive because school
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happened and university happened One bombs in neighboring streets was happening.
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So it's interesting that we humans are very adaptable And what matters for me today is
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being aware that taking the pause to recognize what we are adapting to or not.
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Right?
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So we're super adaptable.
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This pandemic will pass.
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And, from Lebanon, I came in as refugee to Canada, so I was in Montreal.
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And I felt home in Montreal.
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As a refugee there, I have such a soft spot for, any refugee out there.
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It is not easy.
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Transformation is not easy, but thanks to the Canadians and the beautiful and lovely setup
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they have for refugees, I was able to make it.
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And I moved to Florida because of my husband's job, and we've been here for a while.
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So that's my story, and I stick to it.
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So tell me, like, how old were you when you were going through this walk?
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Like, how old were you?
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I was ten years old.
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Jungle.
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I still remember it very vividly.
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I often talked to my dad about it to just remember some details, And, it has been an
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interesting pass.
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It's still there.
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The memory still is there.
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Vividly as we move through this because it was just fascinating what we went through.
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The bites of mosquitoes that were beyond compare because it was in every part of your
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body for days to come, you know, the illness, the the stomach ache, having to, drink water
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from, you know, not so clean, ponds.
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And it's it's been there for a while.
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So at 10 years, it was in Sierra Leone and then around 13 Lebanon.
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So what did you what did you learn about resilience?
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I mean, a ten year old you know, that's that's a a big experience here with your family.
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Your, you know, your walk is how long at that point.
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We have 3 days, of
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5 days?
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5 days?
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3 days.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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3 days.
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And, I think the one lesson for me that I truly take and still hold on to is the amazing,
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resilience of people like us.
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But we went through was unimaginable.
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And yet we had people in the way that unexpectedly supported us and helped to
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survive.
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Was the little stuff that made it so incredible.
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And and in a way, Roxanne, It looks very much like what we see in organizations today.
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As as drastic as that is, you get new leadership come in changing everything, taking
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away everything that you hold dear, right, and then expecting you to just adapt immediately to
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change.
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So, you know, with I always go back to that first war because everything changed.
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Anything that I felt was familiar was not.
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And we're seeing a lot of that happening, even though it's not war and it's not as drastic, We
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do, see and hear many stories of people that feel that they're completely lost any type of
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stability, right, and even grounding of who they are, their identity is their work.
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Whole life and identity is based on that title that they have at work, and it's pretty
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difficult to survive.
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I can't compare it to what we went through because my parents lost everything.
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I was crying over my teddy bear, not recognizing years later that my parents lost
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everything they had last years years of work, and, livelihood.
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And yet I see this happening, because even through those difficult times, there was sparks
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of hope along the way that helped us survive.
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My my parents are still both alive and well.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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And they're doing great.
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And we've been through that hardship, but we survived it.
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And I do believe this pandemic is here, you know, not too long, and we're gonna survive it
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just like everything else.
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Hanging there is what I tell my clients hang in there.
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This is a passing journey.
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And the only way out is within.
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Absolutely.
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And I think that's you know, that whole concept of people being defined by what they do.
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I am, you know, an executive.
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I'm a lawyer.
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I'm a, you know, a teacher, whatever, you know, when when you don't have other things in your
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life and I'm gonna say your your alignment's off balance because we do spend so much time at
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work, and you're right.
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The the pandemic, the adversity of the pandemic, because, yes, it's it's it's made all
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of us have to realign and redefined so many things in our life.
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And even more so for people that I coach, and I know you do it, as well, where people are
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struggling with how much, you know, power they give to their position, and now they're
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recognizing that they are so much more than what they do.
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Roxanne, because with my clients, that self awareness is so not present.
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And I even though I'm, for example, help someone solve problems or this cultural issue
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or this team issue, I find myself self working with them on the basic of who are you?
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What is your identity and how come that identity is so attached to a job title or that
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promotion that you did not get.
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I see a lot of pain in that lack of balance, and, it has to do a lot with authentic
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leadership.
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Who am I as a leader?
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How self aware I am of my values and my purpose?
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And how can I bring that and be more intentional and more deliberate about grounding
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myself in who I am?
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And, again and again, and I'm not sure if it's the pandemic or before I see it more now, that,
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executives are working harder, longer hours, trying to, do more with less and yet losing
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sides of their own mental health, of their own physical health, and of the triggers and the
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lack of creativity that is happening because of lack of sleep, lack of rest, for the lack of
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physical activity and being controlled by their email instead of them controlling the email.
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So it it's like the email is controlling them.
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And I find this this soul, consistently that most of my clients issues are not what they
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believe to be the trigger of the call for the coaching.
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It's more the lack of grounding and What are you?
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I've seen, I mean, toxic leaders in the most most noble organizations.
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And it's lack again to that self awareness and lack of understanding of how your effectiveness
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as a leader actually affects organizational culture affects the results that your team
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gets.
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So, It's like the hamster on the squeaky wheel.
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The we have
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the hamster.
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For sure.
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For sure.
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But I think a lot of these leaders, when they go to business schools, let's say, in all
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fairness, like, I think authentic, you know, and you know, I talk about authentic heart
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leadership where we talk about awareness And what's my story?
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Like, why did I go in?
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Why did I wanna become a leader to begin with?
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I think these lessons now are becoming more normative for 6 years ago was very your
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leadership was very, you know, top down, you know, we we our senior leadership teams were
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not about awareness and and values and how are my values in line with my my vision and my
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mission, and how is that translating out into palpable, palpable steps?
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But here we are, where now, more than ever, the the workplaces, people are saying, I don't
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wanna deal with this company because they're not living their values.
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I don't you know, it's out of alignment.
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I'm not I'm gonna go and up at the local stores because I I want to be able to be connected in
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a way, whereas maybe a year ago, we wouldn't have thought about it.
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We would have thought what's the best deal for me?
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I'm gonna set for it something somewhere far away, not really thinking about I need to be
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connected to to the company that I'm doing business with.
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Do you find that there's been a lot of shift with the trust level that the consumer is
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having from what executives are seeing in reference to?
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You know, their interaction with the public.
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What I see then, Roxanne, is the idea of psychological safety within the organization, I
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see a lot of lost trust from that end.
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Am I safe in my work?
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You know, I might I will will I have that job 6 months from today?
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Is the change am I doing enough?
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Am I capable of doing?
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And this, inner belief that it can't keep up.
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So it's like, I can't keep up.
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So I see a lot of burnout and, a lot of psychological safety influencing how they look
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at their organization and other organizations.
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And and we go back to a very business, theory that, you know, that you and I probably know
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without even thinking about it.
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You know, what's the end?
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The the what's the end that is in mind?
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What's that goal?
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You know, how do I measure where I'm going?
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And as long as you're stuck in this loop of work, work, work, and not stopping to
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understand where is the root cause of my issue, Then you are having less awareness about self
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and less awareness about others.
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So it goes back to something as simple as for me, Roxanne, as silence that inner critic.
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You know, what is happening here?
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Are you are you able up just to stop and pause and be mindful of where you are, you know,
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during the day.
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So at least just basic Stop and pause.
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What am I doing?
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What am I thinking?
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What's happening right now?
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Okay.
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What is this inner critic telling me?
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I hear you.
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What are the facts?
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I see very capable leaders, very capable, well well established leaders questioning their
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ability to manage.
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And I it goes back to that self awareness and tapping into the thoughts that's coming in
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because of this pandemic and because of the stress and the lack of balance between, you
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know, what's what's in here, what's in my life that is causing them to to to have self doubt,
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very capable leaders And it seems to be recurring more and more in this time, probably
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because we're not going out.
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We're not doing things that are entertaining.
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I'm not sure.
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Maybe it's connecting, but resilience to me at this time of change is to really focus on my
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thoughts and my strength and be able to be grounded in my abilities and nurture who I am
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first.
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So I'm more capable of being successful to the world.
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And if we could just silence that inner critic and really focus on facts Go back to facts.
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What have I accomplished this year?
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What have I done well?
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And what can I hone into my strength?
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That might help you silence that inner critic and work more on being more present.
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Right?
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So I think what's happening and I see it around, you know, a lot of the people that I'm
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coaching or even just, you know, other people that are in corporate positions.
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People are at such a depletion level that what you're what you're referring to would not
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absolutely make sense.
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But if I'm coming to a space of I'm so depleted that I can't make the connections between the
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fact that you know, I've been, you know, extending my days, or I haven't been playing
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with my children as much, or I haven't, you know, felt the sun on my face, you know, for
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12, 14 day hours a day for the last 3 days, or I haven't sat down and really actually ate with
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my family or you know, how to, walk with a all these basic things, what happens is I've I
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think a lot of, leaders or people that I'm coaching are so disconnected.
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So that whole thought when I'm teaching them, about awareness and problem solving.
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They're they're so not able to see the frame of objectivity because they're so stuck in their
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subjective reality based on so many things that got them to the spot that they're in.
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I don't know if you're also seeing that.
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Absolutely.
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And and that brings my mind to the middle, you know, manager of managers.
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They're expected to excited, willing, unconditionally supportive of whatever their
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boss is telling them, welcoming of any changed with little disregard to what could be
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conflicting priorities in their life.
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And at the same time, they're supposed to be, you know, at their best with their own
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employees, with their own managers and managers of teams, and, you know, walking that very fine
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line of interpersonal relationships and yet commanding.
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So it's a very conflicting side of personality where you need to be stretched in 2, 3, 4
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different ways.
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And your behavior needs to accommodate whether you're working with the top or you're working
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with the bottom line.
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And these people are burnt out and have a really difficult place in their life right now
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to navigate because they have to switch from being, you know, accommodating to being more
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assertive And when they're dealing with their managers, you know, showing up as engaged and
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they're not, so there's a lot of masks and playing with who they are which creates that
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question mark for them.
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Am I capable?
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Am I the right person?
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Am I doing the right things?
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Will I be in this job in a few months from today?
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They they have that look about them.
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And Roxanne, I get, in my coaching calls with these people, I get a thank you because they
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finally have a time to pause.
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To reflect, to think out loud with no judgment, right, and no retaliation.
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And just the fact that they're able to think and pause makes makes me realize that they're
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and that calendar.
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Go back to that calendar.
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If anyone is listening to this, look at your calendar.
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How much of time have you truly spent on doing your job?
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Which as a leader, you're you're in your strategic planning.
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You're thinking ahead.
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You're is if are you death by zoom, you know, I is there Zoom after Zoom.
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Oh, and in that case, when are you doing your job?
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Because your job is way beyond a entertaining meeting after meeting, you know, finding
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yourself in that position of grounding that my this is what I am intended to do And this is
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how I do it and stopping this feeling of I'm overwhelmed with work because I have no time.
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I'm on Zoom meetings all day long.
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What is it that you can do differently to be more in control of your time and more in
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control and capable of doing what you're supposed to do.
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I think there's a lot of question there because of that fear.
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And to your point, Roxanne, if you're in that lack of power mode.
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Right?
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And then you're you're missing out on what's motivating me.
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Where's where's my be?
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Where am I being capable and where I'm not?
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And there's this, lack of boundaries between family and work, right, and no time for me.
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And believe me, time for you, is what will make you a more effective leader at work.
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So how do we try to start to separate you know, who I am and my capabilities and my strength
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from this meeting after meeting at work.
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Right?
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So
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Absolutely.
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And, you know, I was just on a on another podcast and we were talking a a lot about,
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fatigue.
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And in fact that the attention that we need to give, like, you know, I'm you're seeing half of
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me and you're, you know, I'm potentially hopefully I'm articulating off that you can
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read my nonverbals, but some people are kind of flat.
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So you have to even work harder to kind of get what what is the nuance that I'm missing.
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So, you know, versus, like, we were talking a little bit about the, you know, the element of
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the water cooler, right, like we used to always say, there's a level of connection, that comes
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from just being able to have that face to face connection that's being lost
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And and
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and then we'll go like you to your point.
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We're going from Zoom thing to Zoom to to that kind of time.
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And and, you know, with my new book, I talk a lot about is if you're not able to be aware of
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what it is that you need to be healthy and to keep your mind objectively clear, How is that
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impacting your ability to foster, creativity in in the space that you're in?
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If you're depleted, you're constantly, like, going you're, like, right.
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Got a hamster knot wheel, and you're really depleting yourself.
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You're probably getting less than 65% productivity.
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Because you're so tired mentally, emotionally, probably physically as well.
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But again, that whole concept of people being in that fear state that I'm gonna lose my
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position, what's happening with the pandemic look.
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You know, I was speaking into a colleague and incur management, and he was saying that there
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was another big on lot of, executives losing their job in, in Toronto, like something to the
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tune of, I forget the number, but it was quite high.
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So the reality is people are scared.
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Absolutely.
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And, you bring up a really good point is that focus on what we do.
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Right?
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So that fear of the outcome that we have absolutely no control over and instead going
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into a more of an empowered position where, okay, what do I have under my control?
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How can I show up as indispensable?
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What is it that I need to do today?
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And is it truly about my title that makes me an effective leader?
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And in this case, loss is you know, we can't prevent that.
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That's beyond.
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But as you're in it and you're with it and working in this environment where it's, you
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know, highly demanding highly flexible going through competitive change, consistently,
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right, and competing with, a virus that we have not been able to control is how how do I become
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more self aware and more aware of what is happening around me and how can I become
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indispensable?
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What is the one thing that my organization needs today that I could substitute and assist
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with?
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And it's not Zoom calls.
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Right?
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We're wired to connect.
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We are hardwired to connect with others.
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How can I use my day to be more effective in my connections with others?
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How can I create that one on 1 right, that one or one connection because it's no longer face
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to face?
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It's, you know, me and you, How can I make this more meaningful?
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Right.
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Right.
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And when it comes to the executives, how can I show up as an executive?
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What is in my presence that is saying or not that I'm saying or not saying?
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You know, am I showing up fully ready?
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Am I showing up with a voice?
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Do I have, meaningful saying to say something to say?
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I work with a highly capable EVP Executive Vice President of a large scientific organization
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Roxanne.
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And she told me that she wanted the coach because she cannot be heard.
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She does not feel heard in the meetings.
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Well, if that's what you tell yourself on a daily basis, you start to shut down completely
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and you wait for the louder voices to take over.
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Well, you know, how do we create that presence and make sure you say what you need to say at
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the time it needs to say.
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Most people that do not speak up, it's not because there's another person taking over.
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It's because there's a voice here that says, is my idea good good enough to share while the
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other person is taking out loud and throwing that idea?
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So go back to identifying your own limiting beliefs.
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Right?
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And the triggers, what are the triggers that I have within me that seem to be causing me to go
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quiet or go too loud?
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And go back to executive presence.
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What does that mean?
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You know, am I dressed up for success?
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Looking like I'm hiding behind a camera, right, with my face all the way versus am I really
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present?
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Listen.
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Is my mind put in this call or I'm working on something else in my head?
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Is it all shows up for you when you are dealing, you know, in your role?
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And mentally, when you're tired, what you're not able to do is to be completely present.
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And I think you know, with with awareness and awareness is, you know, could be something as
27:06
simple as, you know, I'm gonna take every ding and bell off, and I'm gonna, you know, sit in
27:12
my office, you know, in my favorite chair and have a tea for 10 minutes with nothing to, you
27:19
know, kind of allow my brain and my mind to just have a bit of a, like you said, a bit of a
27:24
pause to sit outside because it's sunny, and feel the sun on my face with that tee, be able
27:32
to reposition myself.
27:33
My body then identifies something different with the stress.
27:37
So if my body feels like it has another option instead of sitting on my desk for, like you
27:42
said, in, you know, for, say, 10, 12 hours sometimes, sure people do that, which is
27:46
unfortunate.
27:48
So the body needs that experience to say, oh, well, what I what can I do?
27:52
Oh, you can you can do this.
27:54
You can you know, you can walk around the block because you've got, you know, 15 minutes.
27:59
Something as simple as that, then, you know, that whole internal space gets created that
28:04
says, when I am not feeling a 100%, these are the 6 options that I can pick from.
28:12
Versus kind of sitting there and thinking, oh, I'm just going to, you know, keep at keep at
28:18
it.
28:18
If I keep at it and we know that we only have a obviously that optimal functioning, what, for
28:22
20 minutes of the time that we need to take a break and then go on to other things.
28:27
Absolutely.
28:27
And life is too short.
28:29
Right?
28:29
I mean, If you've been through one experience or 2, I've been through 2 words.
28:33
Life is short.
28:35
So, do what it takes to 1st navigate your personal health and personal being and
28:42
presence.
28:43
And, you know, I often ask my clients.
28:47
Why take an hour to have a meeting?
28:49
Why not 45 minutes?
28:50
And then allow everyone to take a breather for 15, right, and positive intelligence, science.
28:56
It's it's the 5 minutes of being mindful, and I do this to be mindful.
29:01
Very simple things.
29:02
You know, what are what is one thing you could do?
29:04
It could be visual, you know, looking at the window.
29:06
I have a beautiful window in front of me with a lot of maybe that would be a just looking and
29:11
noticing you know, different things, the the wind, whatever that is that keeps you grounded
29:17
for that moment.
29:18
Few minutes, it doesn't take much.
29:20
In meetings, I could do this under the desk and just have that sense of mindful presence or it
29:26
could be through ear listening to sounds that you hear for the first time or as farther as
29:31
you can hear.
29:32
So bring back that type of presence to yourself because then you become better at creating more
29:40
meaningful collections and connections and having that in-depth conversation with someone
29:46
else who's looking at you and you're not present.
29:49
We can tell when you're not present.
29:51
We can tell when the leader is going fast forward to results.
29:54
You know, just get me to results.
29:57
And I would say that, you know, through coaching, Roxanne, you know, I offer evidence
30:02
based assessments and leadership metrics that help the leader sees where they're at and where
30:08
they need to be based on their own self assessment.
30:11
So it's not someone else telling them.
30:13
Right?
30:13
So they can't say, oh, no.
30:14
This person doesn't know me well.
30:16
It's you.
30:17
So they the self assessment tells you where that challenge is for you.
30:22
Is it in the vision?
30:23
Is it in the detail, or is it in presence or mindfulness?
30:26
So to me, it's go back to basics.
30:28
What is it?
30:30
What am I here to do?
30:32
What is my true role?
30:34
And where am I here to do in my life?
30:38
Right?
30:38
Because that identity cannot be just your work identity.
30:42
Who am I?
30:43
How am I gonna keep my my myself healthy so I can be more effective at work?
30:49
With my new book, that's what I I do with,
30:51
the teams,
30:53
that I'd be working with is that the the team members actually, analyze the leaders,
31:00
competencies around things like awareness, decision making recognition, all those
31:07
different variables.
31:08
And, so that it becomes almost like a, let's say, I'm on your team and I'm really very poor
31:16
at awareness.
31:17
I go through, you know, training in the modules and coaching And if I get through that and I'm
31:23
still lacking an awareness, it shows that there's some some things that I need to further
31:27
work on as the as the leader.
31:29
Because I think, unfortunately, you know, where are we getting these metrics to see whether the
31:35
leader's being effective or not?
31:37
So my hopes is that with these ability to continually test once we've, created these
31:45
trainings along with so that whether it's executive coaching that the leader would then
31:50
go, oh, you know, I've learned these things, but what's the application?
31:54
Well, how did I apply it in my meetings this week.
31:57
Or, you know, with, my presentations, was I able to demonstrate a certain skill that I've
32:04
learned, Olusta?
32:05
And then the team again then continues to assess the qualities of the leader to see if
32:11
that's been enhanced.
32:12
Or in fact, if it's gotten worse, if it's it stayed the same, then at that point, it would
32:17
be more in-depth need for further kind of, deeper core coaching with the leader.
32:23
Absolutely.
32:24
No.
32:24
I mean, if we look back at 30 years from today, coaching was associated with, a rare
32:30
occurrence, And when you're in trouble, you gotta coach because if you do better, I'll get
32:36
out.
32:36
Today, engagement with with coaching is is simply an opportunity to grow and leverage your
32:43
talents and become more effective.
32:45
And it's an expectation.
32:47
So I see more and more people actually when they're getting their job for the first time,
32:51
you know, getting a promotion asking for that coach to be part of their competitive
32:55
advantage.
32:56
So, I think find a way to connect with people that can mentor you or that can assist you.
33:06
Right?
33:06
So I was having some sleep issues.
33:08
I connected with a sleep coach.
33:10
It does not have to be a $1,000,000 investment.
33:13
It could be two sessions with a sleep coach.
33:15
And learning that if I could sleep at the same time every day.
33:19
And if I could have a sleep routine, things will be better.
33:22
So find out where you're struggling that specific place where you start links, pause,
33:28
allow yourself to stop, and reach out to someone who can support you so you become more
33:34
effective.
33:35
I think I have found more precisely, Roxanne with female leaders that do they do not stop to
33:43
ask for help.
33:44
And they do not reach out to ask for a coach or look for development opportunities.
33:49
Even networking opportunities do not happen for them as, as specifically as they believe they
33:58
are doing it.
33:59
So they're not very effective and networking on a level of growing their their own brand as a
34:04
leader.
34:05
So I think it's important to stop become more self aware, understand where your challenges
34:11
are, reflect on those challenges, and then reach out and get help.
34:15
Find the coach or the mentor or the manager or the peer that's going to support you because
34:22
they know what they're doing.
34:23
Not because they've been there, but they know what they are doing and can provide you with
34:28
good feedback to help you grow.
34:31
But I would always say start with self awareness.
34:33
Right?
34:34
Because that helps me then understand awareness with others.
34:37
How am I, you know, how am I communicating?
34:41
Am I truly listening?
34:42
And then as you get that and you become better at that, because your inner critic is silenced,
34:48
then I can start looking at my relationships.
34:51
And how my, you know, how is my awareness of others?
34:56
How can I see others as clearly as I see myself?
34:59
And that takes the time to pause and to be there, right, and understand your limiting
35:04
beliefs.
35:06
So, I know one client.
35:09
I'll give you an example, Roxanne.
35:11
Incredible, client and cler incredible female leader.
35:15
Has an amazing team of people, and they were all complaining, complaining about her and her
35:21
leadership And, they can quit because they're in health care.
35:25
Everyone wants them.
35:26
So they they were a high potential team that she did not want to risk losing.
35:31
And when I spoke with them.
35:33
I was so surprised to to realize that she has forced weekly meetings with them.
35:40
As a group.
35:42
And in the meeting, they had to present a report that was so ridiculously detailed and
35:48
overwhelming that they had spent most of the week working on that report.
35:53
Oh my goodness.
35:55
So her intentions were you know, the most noble intentions was she wanted her superiors to
36:03
understand that this group is working hard.
36:05
And they this way, they could not be shut down a forward.
36:09
Great intervention.
36:10
The impact on the team was the opposite.
36:13
They felt micromanage, they felt extremely burnt out.
36:18
They they had a culture that they felt was a controlling culture, and she became the enemy.
36:24
So just by her stopping and recognizing, I said, just pause for a moment.
36:30
Mhmm.
36:30
Look at your report.
36:32
What are you doing?
36:33
Right?
36:33
Just that pause, understanding the impact, did you ask these people what they thought about
36:38
it?
36:38
Did you even in any way, find out what it would be a bet better way to report.
36:43
And none of that happened because in her rush and the stress and the worry that the whole
36:49
team might be let go.
36:50
Very good intentions.
36:51
She's trying to protect the team.
36:53
She became the enemy for the team, and she became the least effective, for the team.
36:58
So being self aware will help you become more aware of others.
37:03
Well, I think, you know, I often say if you don't know what your own stress signature is
37:07
and you're in that state and you, you know, you're working from you know, the, you know, 5
37:14
flight or freeze part of your brain often, then you're not becoming clear about what's really
37:20
happening in front of you.
37:22
Because you're in your own world.
37:24
Right?
37:25
You're and it's you're tumbling.
37:27
And, you know, it's it's unfortunate.
37:29
I often say, you know, How do you know when you're stressed?
37:33
What are some of the signs?
37:34
What what how do you talk to yourself?
37:37
How do you experience your body?
37:38
Because oftentimes, you know, when I talk to people about, tell me, you know, there's
37:43
there's a term in neuroscience called window of tolerance.
37:46
I'm sure you've probably heard of that.
37:48
And I'll say to people, how do you know when you're tipping in?
37:50
And they go, what's it like to be in it at all?
37:54
And I'm like, are you kidding?
37:56
And they go, well, no.
37:57
You know, generally if I am really stressed, you know, I've recognized that I'm I'm not
38:03
recognizing it because I've just snapped at my kids yet again, or, you know, I've I've gotten
38:09
I've, you know, I can barely move my shoulders.
38:10
I said, well, that's too late stage at that point.
38:13
What you're not recognizing, you probably have 7 cues prior to that, and you just kept going
38:19
into the no, you know, the new fly zone.
38:22
And then you're about to tumble over.
38:24
So I think you're so correct in saying, what is my internal space?
38:28
And nobody can care for internal space.
38:32
Those lessons for ourselves and not everybody's like us.
38:37
Absolutely.
38:38
And if I continue saying I'm overwhelmed, I'm overwhelmed.
38:40
I'm overwhelmed.
38:41
I'm overwhelmed.
38:41
Believe me.
38:42
If you say repeat that for three times, you start to feel the sense of overwhelm.
38:47
So it is overwhelming.
38:48
Absolutely.
38:49
And you know what, Roxanne?
38:51
Let's face it.
38:52
Leaders face obstacles no matter where they are in their journey.
38:57
Okay?
38:57
COVID, it's probably worse.
39:00
Right?
39:00
And you're facing, you know, these areas of surprises and changes that are hitting you left
39:06
and So it is not an easy journey.
39:09
And at the same time, you're stuck in the social hierarchy, you know, that requires you
39:14
to be extremely aware and adapting to different, teams and different powers.
39:21
So it's a roller coaster.
39:23
You're navigating a lot during the day.
39:24
So mentally, it's exhausting.
39:27
And the more reason why it's important to pause and to really go back to what is my intention
39:34
for today?
39:36
What is that one thing that is really important to me to do today?
39:40
And how can I take the time to do it?
39:42
Because we cannot be in that roller coaster up and down, up and down, up and down, because
39:47
that navigation of power becomes very ruffled and unclear.
39:51
The path becomes super unclear.
39:53
So tending to your expectations first and then tending to your manager's expectations and the
40:00
expectations of your team takes a second when you are clear on what you want.
40:06
So Roxanne, we've seen more of, like you said, that burnout the fatigue, the constant demand
40:13
altogether can create a true explosion, you know, and something you may not know coming
40:19
your way.
40:20
So just stop, recognize it, understand where you want, and go back to basic I tell my
40:26
clients go back to basic.
40:28
What is what is my intention for the week?
40:31
We learned that I, you know, at a very young age, And what's my week like?
40:36
Go back, stop.
40:37
What is important to do?
40:39
Look at your calendar.
40:40
And if it's full, if it's complicated, I get it.
40:43
I respect that.
40:45
What can I stop doing on that day?
40:47
What is that block of time that I'm going to start getting into my calendar that is
40:53
undegotiable, non negotiable because I work with clients, Roxanne, and sometimes they block
40:58
it and someone intervenes into calendar.
41:01
Well, that's boundaries that, you know, we have to respect our boundaries and recognize
41:06
everyone that this is an untouchable period I need to work on my strategy, call it a fancy
41:13
name, strategic planning, landing to whatever you want, but keep that work for the manager.
41:21
Absolutely.
41:21
And it's so very important, right, like, that you you know, if you're if you're at the level
41:27
that you're at, you know, you're being, you know, you're at that level for a reason and you
41:31
need protect that mental capacity even more so so that when you've kind of, like you said, set
41:37
your intention, understand what you need to get off plate that day or that week, you know, and
41:43
then to figure out what were your process goals, like, in that day, and I'm not always
41:49
looking at outcome to your white, but what steps did I take to get to my intention that
41:54
day?
41:55
And, you know, did I take the steps in that right direction?
41:58
Well, good for you.
41:59
Give yourself a pat in the back.
42:00
Figure out where you need to be tomorrow in a bit at a time, but also inflicting through your
42:05
day, like you've said, little, little things.
42:07
And I often say to people, you know, do little things like, and I think we've talked a little
42:13
bit about that.
42:14
You know, have the visual right there, have the, you know, the scent around your close,
42:20
have the favorite teas or whatever or, you know, just little things.
42:25
Have pictures of your children or maybe, you know, your favorite vacation because we haven't
42:30
been able to get off on vacation.
42:33
What are those things that bring you back to the moment and to help you recognize what
42:37
you're doing, what you're doing.
42:39
So, again, by putting on that logical part of the brain it it brings you back to the present
42:44
moment versus kind of projecting about what I didn't get done today and, you know, how I
42:50
like, to your point, what am I telling myself that makes me feel like I can, I can achieve?
42:55
Absolutely.
42:55
Look, my my motto is in my companies, you know, my market's motto is changing the way people
43:01
think or leaders think one conversation at a time.
43:04
Just start with one conversation with yourself.
43:07
You know, I've seen the best intentions and organization creating the most toxic
43:13
environments.
43:14
You know, just because something sounds good on paper, it doesn't mean that it's not so
43:21
pressing your talent.
43:22
Right?
43:23
So look at what you're doing on a daily basis.
43:25
And if you want to waste potential, put people in situations where they spend their energy
43:32
surviving instead of really engaging their intelligence in building a strong culture
43:38
that's sustained and grounds on the United purpose.
43:41
What a waste.
43:42
I've seen this again and again that fear of, you know, being in a survival mode that makes
43:48
you lose, you know, the best of your employees.
43:52
So stop and go back to what is really my job and how can I look at my high potentials and
43:59
make sure they are not on survival mode that they're truly on?
44:03
Creating that amazing place where results can happen.
44:10
So if you notice a lot of resistance in your team, if you're noticing a lot of silence in
44:14
your team, if you're noticing significant amount of distraction in your team, stop and go
44:21
back to what Have we done to suppress a sensor and make these people feel, you know, that lack
44:28
of trust toward us?
44:30
Never underestimate the power of silence and organizations.
44:34
I know.
44:34
A lot of people think silence means, like, everything going well.
44:37
Well, then I often go, oh, no.
44:39
No.
44:40
There's that undercurrent, right?
44:41
And, and sometimes, you know, I I I had a colleague and I was speaking to him when he was
44:47
on the senior team, and his CEO, brought in the person to do the 360 and give them medications
44:54
and all those things.
44:55
And everybody on the team filled it out.
44:59
But they were all afraid to see what the truth was.
45:03
Right?
45:04
And in turn, there was 50% almost 50% of the team that was going off on leave.
45:10
So that's telling you.
45:11
Yes.
45:13
Right there.
45:14
Right?
45:14
Like, your metrics are right there in front of you.
45:16
If people are telling you they more, you know, more incidental absences, maybe short term
45:21
leaves, all those things, you know, your metrics around you are showing you that
45:25
something is wrong.
45:26
So for
45:27
you as you know,
45:28
you you'd have to be completely unaware to recognize there's limbs and people dropping off
45:33
around me.
45:33
What's What's what's the story, to your leadership at that point?
45:38
And I think it's it means being you're you're gonna get some hits as a leader, right, that
45:43
says, you gotta do a lot of things different, but if you can't sustain that capacity to make
45:48
change, how is it that you could expect the other people around you to do the
45:52
Absolutely.
45:53
You know, no matter what conflict, no matter what difficulty, I I tell my clients, you and
45:59
your team are much more than your survival skills.
46:02
Go back and look at it.
46:03
I find 3 types of of things happening.
46:07
Roxanne, when things are not right and you know it.
46:10
Some people escape, you know, they're leaving.
46:13
And you're like, what?
46:14
They left.
46:14
They're leaving.
46:15
They don't even tell you anything.
46:17
Some revolt Right?
46:19
You see this courageous acts of rebellion happening, or courageous person saying
46:24
something at a town hall that is absolutely unexpected.
46:27
And then the others hide, they wear this beautiful mask and they mask the silence and
46:33
walk just barely making it.
46:36
To, to make ends meet that just to survive so they're hiding so you know, they're not next on
46:40
your list.
46:42
So, we sneak in in different forms.
46:45
And we react in different form.
46:46
And I would say you can only demand obedience for so much from your team, you know,
46:51
retaliation or eventually sneak in in different forms.
46:55
So I'm pausing and going back to what we started, Roxanne, pausing really understanding,
47:02
you know, the impact of what you're doing intentionally communicating for I see many of
47:11
the organizations where I'm called to look at, you know, what's happening with their teams,
47:16
there's there's new communication.
47:18
Orders over communication.
47:20
When it's over communication is meaningless and it's not truly transparent, When there's no
47:25
communication, it's lost.
47:28
Right?
47:29
You have a lost path, but still no communication.
47:31
So how can I create a balance and share consistent communication that is meaningful,
47:39
transparent, and also authentic Right?
47:42
So let's meet together because we know when you're lying, I've worked in organizations for
47:47
more than 20 years.
47:48
Now I work out of organizations and We know you're lying.
47:53
People know people know what's happening.
47:55
I work in an organization that was super, organic Roxanne, but my administrative
48:01
assistant knew all the gossip way before it got to the directors a leader.
48:07
People know what's happening and they talk.
48:09
There's channels of communication.
48:11
So consistent communication is so important.
48:14
Right?
48:15
And Placing ourselves in a place of vulnerability starts with really looking at
48:21
ourselves.
48:22
Right.
48:23
And the, you know, and I think, unfortunately, in in business, we put these leaders sometimes
48:29
at a at a a disservice we give them because we give them.
48:33
They have capacity for outcome, And, you know, the the business schools, I think, are
48:37
recognizing that, you know, gone are the days where vulnerability is viewed as weakness.
48:42
It is really strength because what it allows others to do is to say, hey, Luna's normal.
48:47
She's, you know, she's experiencing this or that.
48:51
And, she's letting us know and wow, she's feeling like that.
48:55
I'm not I'm on her team.
48:57
Is it not possible that I can also share and get in, you know, be able to get some support.
49:01
So I think the the transparency, like you said, the authenticity and the vulnerability of your
49:06
leadership skill and capacity gives people permission to say, we're all in this together.
49:13
And, you know, I wanna work for a leader that I feel like I can relate 2.
49:19
Absolutely.
49:20
Especially at immense times of change.
49:23
Mhmm.
49:24
That vulnerability takes on totally.
49:27
It opens up totally new possibilities, right, because then you leverage your strength and
49:33
challenges with those of others.
49:35
And you find complimentary competencies to help you and assist you become even more effective.
49:41
Luka, this has been an amazing conversation.
49:44
I knew we would have, lots to talk about.
49:47
So for anybody now, Luna's, you know, been doing this kind of work for a long time for any
49:52
organizations or leaders that are maybe potentially looking for executive coaching,
49:57
where can people reach you, to have a chat or to be able to use you for some, some of your,
50:04
skills.
50:05
Absolutely.
50:06
It's my first name lubnalovena@mindmarkit.org, or you can visit the website.
50:13
I think it's gonna be there www.
50:16
Mindmarkit.org.
50:19
I look forward to talking to you, and I really wish you all the best in your journey of
50:25
leadership.
50:26
And Roxanne, thank you so much for your time.
50:28
I'm so looking forward to your book and reading your book.
50:32
And I thank you for this time.
50:33
I can't believe that our past.
50:35
Thank you.
50:35
Well, thank you, and Illumna's also, writing a book.
50:39
And when she when she finishes it, She's gonna come back and visit no doubt to share it with
50:44
us.
50:44
So, again, you know, go out there, take care of yourself for so that you can it's simple, but
50:52
it's not easy.
50:53
And, yes, you have a lot of expectations of you in in a in a time that's quite been dire for
50:59
most, but recognize that the more you're capable of going into your internal space
51:07
you're able to then catch your cognitions, your emotions, and get connected to your body that
51:12
creates the platform to allow you to go out there and lead from such a place of strength.
51:19
So again, Luna, thanks so much for everybody.
51:21
If you're wanting more information on authentic leadership with your teams, you can reach out
51:26
to me at roxannedurhodge.com.
51:27
Derhodge for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive the
51:35
change.
51:36
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit Roxanne
51:43
Derhodge dotcom/blueprint.
51:46
We'll see you next time.
51:48
An authentic living with Roxanne.