Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Creative Slide Design Masterclass with Kevin Smith: Visual Storytelling & Communication

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Creative Slide Design Masterclass with Kevin Smith: Visual Storytelling & Communication · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

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Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
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and let's integrate this. The integrate this
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podcast today we have a special guest with us
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Kevin Smith from Dakota State University where
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he is an associate professor and We actually
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got in touch with Kevin at the ties conference
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in South Dakota and attended one of Kevin's sessions,
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which I thought was really great. And it's all
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about presenting and how to do so effectively
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and use text and visuals in a meaningful way.
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And I think Kevin's going to share a really great
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wealth of knowledge with us on that topic. And
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so, Kevin, welcome. Glad to have you. And maybe
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start by telling us a little bit about where
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you're from and how you got to DSU and talking
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about the creative process and presentations.
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All right, yeah. Thanks for having me. Thanks,
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David and Jeremy. Nice to... It's been a while
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since I've seen David, but nice to meet you,
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Jeremy. And I'm excited to share information
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about visual design with you on this podcast.
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So just some background on me. Like David said,
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I'm a professor, associate professor at Dakota
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City University. I'm in the College of Education.
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I teach... students how to teach math and use
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technology in the classroom. This is my 12th
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year doing that. I spend about half my time there
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with undergraduate students. Those are the students
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that are working to become teachers. And then
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I spend about half my time with our graduate
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students. And the graduate students are working
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on their master's degree in educational technology.
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So it's a really nice mix of working with pre
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-service teachers and in -service teachers with
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those topics, math and technology. And I started
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out my career as a high school math teacher,
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so I was in the K -12 classroom. And then I was
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always interested in math and tech. And so I
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went back to graduate school at the University
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of Nebraska and studied instructional technology.
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And then when I finished that degree, when I
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finished my master's degree, I went to work for
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an organization as an instructional designer.
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So I was, if you're not familiar with instructional
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design, I think some people are, but it's kind
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of a new term for some people. But I was basically
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designing curriculum materials for teachers and
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students. So I was using my background with teaching
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and pedagogy and my content knowledge with math
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and technology to develop instructional materials.
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An important part of designing instructional
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materials was making sure they were visually
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appealing and the visual design enhanced the
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learning and hopefully helped. people learn more.
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So that was kind of my career before coming to
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DSU. And then kind of in addition to that, just
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kind of a, a personal note about me is I've always
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loved, I've always loved art. And in fact, when
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I went to college, I thought about maybe being
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in going into architecture. Um, and now as a
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hobby, I'm, I'm an illustrator. Uh, I have a
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side business that my daughter and I started
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called Kevin and Kai. We create illustrated stationery.
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We sell it all over. Now we sell it all over
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the world. So it started out as this little hobby
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business and now we have our items in 180 stores
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all over the world. And, um, and then kind of
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related to that illustration hobby business.
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I also just recently wrote and illustrated my
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first children's book. Uh, about math and a girl
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that doesn't like math. So, uh, that's, that's,
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uh, a lot about me actually. Yeah, yeah, that's
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awesome. I could see how, you know, your passions
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kind of have all kind of seem to have blended
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together for you, which is like really, really
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cool. And, you know, don't be afraid if you want
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to promote your book a little bit later here
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too. We'll definitely give you a spot for that.
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Cool. But, you know, I think it's great how you
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talk about passion for design that you have too,
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visual design, because my wife is actually was
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a fine art major in college and minored in graphic
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design. say how many years ago in case she gets
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mad at me. But she still definitely kind of has
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this eye for making things visually appealing
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like you talked about, too. So I mean, kind of
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curious then when it when it comes to, you know,
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in education as educators, we make a lot of presentations.
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We just do right. It's a way to convey information
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and points we need to get across. So, you know,
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when you're approaching creating a new presentation,
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how do you blend that creative part with that
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need to effectively communicate a message? Yeah,
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good. That's a good question. You know, I feel
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like my work as an instructional designer and
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as a teacher designing lessons, I think really
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kind of. I feel like I use a backward design
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approach, oftentimes thinking about what is the
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goal of this presentation? What do I want the
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audience to really get out of it? What I want
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them to take away from it. And then, um, so that's
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really the starting place thinking about what,
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you know, what's the message you want to get
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across. And then, um, You know, think about how
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you're going to get there. What, what are, what's
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the, um, how are you going to organize your information?
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How are you going to, how am I going to introduce
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the material to get student, get students or
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my audience engaged in what I'm talking about?
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And so I feel like really focusing on what's,
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what's the key takeaways that I want to get across.
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And then once, once you're really clear on that,
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then thinking about. How am I going to keep my
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audience focused and engaged and what kind of
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creative things can I add to my presentation
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to do that? So, you know, in terms of creative
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things, I'm trying to think about how can I make
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this information. relevant and interesting to
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my audience so thinking about good examples that
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they might be able to relate to thinking about
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things they might might be interested in in pop
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in pop culture you know what what kind of movies
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might connect with my story or music or whatever
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so I feel like thinking about all sorts of different
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multimedia things that People are used to seeing
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how does that connect with my ultimate goal of
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my presentation? So that's kind of the kind of
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my thought process as I'm putting together a
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presentation So it's you know, a lot of it is
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the visuals but part of it is, you know Probably
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the most important part is what's the what's
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the goal? What are you trying to what are you
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trying to get across to your audience? Yeah,
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and I know when we Attended ties and we came
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to your session. I think that it's almost inevitable
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that as I was watching your presentation and
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looking at the different ways that you approach
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things or have tips on how to create presentations,
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you automatically start to reflect on presentations
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that you've made. So that's what I did a lot
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of. I was like thinking about stuff that I've
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made and if I've incorporated some of those ideas.
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And so when you're working with students, let's
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say, or colleagues, what are the things that
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you see as the most common mistakes that they
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make? And then how do you help them avoid that?
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Yeah, good. I like that question. So I like your
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comment about when you're in a presentation and
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you're reflecting on your own presentations.
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So just a quick little kind of side story there.
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So one of the classes I teach in our graduate
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program is it's called visual design for learning.
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Um, my students, this is really oftentimes the
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first time they've ever had a formal class on
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visual design. They're, you know, they were probably
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education majors in college. They've been teachers
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and they maybe have an eye for design, but they
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haven't had any formal training. So this is their
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first time. And so when they start to learn about
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some of the principles they, and, and some of
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the activities I haven't do are, um, go find
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bad. Go find a bad design and tell me why it's
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bad. Go find a good design and tell me why it's
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good. And at the end of the class, oftentimes
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the students are a little bit like, um, they,
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they enjoy it, but they're like, I can't look
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at anything the same anymore. You know, they,
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they, they are like kind of, um, critiquing the
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things that they see as billboards or commercials
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or, um, you know, title screen of a movie or
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a presentation. So anyway, that, um, So I think
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that's a good thing to kind of reflect on your
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own design and think about how you can make it
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better. So your question, common mistake. So
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I want to share my screen and highlight a couple,
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a few things that I see a lot. So let me jump
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down. I'll just share here. All right. So the
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common most common mistakes. So these are the
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three that I identified too much text, visuals
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don't add value and not enough white space. And
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I'll talk a little bit about each one and show
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you some examples. So too much text is, is, is
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kind of an obvious one. I think we've all been
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in presentations where there's been way too much
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text on the slide. So I, you know, my tip here
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is just limit your text and bullet points. So
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here's a really poor example. And this one, this
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is just a A screenshot that I grabbed. Um, but
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you can see the, a lot of texts it's actually
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pixelated too. So it's hard to read. So just
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not, not good. Um, here's one that I created.
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So at least the text is easy to read and clear,
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but there's a lot of it. And, um, and then sometimes
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we do this, um, we add backgrounds, which maybe
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don't really help. Um, they don't help us, uh,
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help them make, make it more readable. But here's
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an example of a presentation that does a nice
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job. So this is actually. This is actually me
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sitting in a presentation, um, reflecting on
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what I'm seeing. And I actually pulled out my
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phone and took a picture of it because I really
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liked what this presenter did. And this was a
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presentation that I was at in Indianapolis. I'm
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the presenter whose name was Dan Meyer. He's
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a math teacher. And I just love this. He had
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five bullet points or five items and each one
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had two words, identify variables, formulate
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models. And. I went to this presentation years
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ago. I've talked about this slide several times,
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so that helps me remember it, but those ideas,
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um, because he was able to limit his texts and
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bullet points, those ideas really stuck with
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me. So, um, I think it's important to just really
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try to limit your text. Here's a great, great
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quote from Thomas Jefferson. Most valuable of
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all talents is that of never using two words
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when one will do being concise and succinct is
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sometimes more challenging than putting lots
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of words on the screen, but it really does make
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a difference. So the mistake is adding too much
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text and having too many bullets. So you really
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want to try to limit that. And then this is the
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question that I try to get people to think about.
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Can I be more concise? You know, put your slide
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together, read it, and then just ask yourself,
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could I be a little more concise here? And then
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the second one, The second mistake is oftentimes
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we see presentations where visuals are just put
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in there just to be put in there. There's no
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real value. So here's an example. Here's a poor
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example that I put together. The most important
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thing on this screen is the objective for the
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day, which is to learn about order of operations.
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But I got all sorts of stuff going on here. My
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name, my class, my class period, some... cheesy
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clip art. So if I start to get rid of some of
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these things, the learner can really focus on
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what's important. I don't need all of this extra
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stuff. And maybe this is all I really need today.
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We're going to learn order of operations. Um,
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you know, and adding visuals, um, can help in
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terms of keeping students in gigs or your students
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or your audience engaged, but you just want to
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make sure you're adding visuals that really add
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value. So here's another example. Um, If this
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was your slide, you're going to talk about a
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project. It's going to last three weeks. If the
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project is about growing flowers, maybe it makes
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sense, but if it isn't, then I would say that
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adding a flower to this slide is just, it isn't
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adding value. This would be an example of adding
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value because this calendar, especially if I
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had three weeks highlighted would help drive
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home your point. Um, so the text and the visual
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kind of go together. So that's. The second tip
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for, to avoid that mistake. And then the third
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one, oh, and here's the question, you know, what
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point am I trying to get across? So look at your
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slide and just ask yourself that question. And
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then the third one is, this is one that really
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resonates, or maybe this really comes to life
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for my students in this graduate class I teach,
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and that is utilizing white space. So if you
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haven't had formal... training in graphic design
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or visual design. The, just that whole concept
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of white space can be new to you. So here's a
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slide that I put together. It's got lots of information
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about DSU, but you'll notice everything is kind
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of jammed together. And this is very common when
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people put together visuals, they feel like,
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well, if there's, if there's room on the slide,
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I need to put something in. I need to fill it
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up. I need to put something in there. So white
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space doesn't have to be white. It's just the
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space around the objects. It's the space between
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the image and the edge of the slide. It's the
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space between your bullet points. So if I change
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this and add white space, I'm going to let you
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see what happens. So just, I got rid of the logo,
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but I added space around everything. And now
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it's so much easier to read. So we went from
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this to this, and really all I did was give all
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the items a little more space. So utilizing white
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space. And then the question I tell people to
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ask themselves is this, can the items on my slide
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breathe? If they're all jammed together, that
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makes it really difficult. So those are my, yeah,
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those are my tips. Those are my tips or, you
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know, those are the common mistakes and some
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tips to kind of address those things. And do
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you think, um, just as a follow -up, the, uh,
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one thing I noticed about the first slide, it
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compared to the second one of the, the history
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of DSU is that. It, the first one is right away
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overwhelming because you're not really sure where
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to focus your attention. Whereas I feel like
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the second one spaces things out in a way where
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you can focus your attention. and kind of work
15:30
your way through the slide as opposed to the
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first one where you're kind of like bouncing
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around and not really sure what to look at. Do
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you ever find like there's, when people add too
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much stuff to a slide, is there any conversation
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about like, there's a misconception maybe about...
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whenever we're talking, we have to use a lot
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of language because we're like trying to explain
15:54
something. But when you're showing a presentation,
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it's not the same type of delivery. And actually,
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like, if you have the bullet points up, like
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the one good slide that you showed that the presenter
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is actually going to expound on whatever is on
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the presentation. Right. And so if you do you
16:12
find that there's maybe like a misconception
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where. If someone is putting too much on a slide,
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they, they view it as the same type of delivery
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or as if they've got to say the same exact thing
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from the slide. They have to communicate all
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of that at once. Yeah. I think, um, I think you're
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onto something there that's important that I
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talk about in my visual design class too. And
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that is like, um, other design things we do to
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focus the audience's attention on things. So
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we use visual higher hierarchy. We use contrast.
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We use layout and we know sort of the patterns
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that, you know, a lot of times they start in
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the upper left -hand corner and they move across
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to the right and then they move down. So we kind
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of know that the patterns that people follow
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and I feel like, um, yeah, I feel like the visual
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with good visual design and a good like presentation
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message. You can really have an impact on what
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you want. your audience to focus on and when
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you want them to focus on it. Um, so yeah, I
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think I'm not sure if I got to your question,
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but definitely the visual design impacts how,
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um, what people take away from what you're the
17:26
message you're trying to get across. Right. So
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what are some of those core elements then that,
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you know, like a really great press presentation
17:35
is going to contain, you know, maybe not on every
17:38
single slide, but through the whole presentation
17:41
itself. Yeah. I mean, I think, um, you know,
17:45
the, I think a great presentation and I know,
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you know, you've been to really good ones and
17:50
I have too. And then you've been to really bad
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ones. I think, you know, it starts with, uh,
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it starts with a really good presenter, you know,
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being an engaging and passionate presenter is
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really important and having a clear and focused
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message. Um, so I think that's the most important
18:06
thing. And then Couple that with really good
18:11
visuals Then you have then you have you know
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a recipe for a really good a really good presentation
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So I think in terms of just the visual piece
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the things that make it really good are Sticking
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to these design tips, which I'm going to share
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with you in a second I have seven of them that
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are pretty easy to follow I shared some of them
18:32
in those in that screen share that I did but
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I'll share all seven of them but I think you
18:38
know, following good visual design tips. So you
18:40
want to make sure things are easy to read. You
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want to make sure you have visuals that really
18:44
convey your ideas or like I said, add value.
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Um, you want to really think about in your, in
18:51
your presentation, how can I provide visuals
18:54
that make, uh, abstract ideas more concrete?
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So is it a diagram? Is it a picture that's, um,
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So you want to think about that. And then you
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really want to, as a presenter, think about what
19:09
kind of examples can I use that are going to
19:12
connect with my audience? You know, one of the
19:15
things that we know is so important for learning
19:18
is connecting, you know, existing knowledge we
19:22
have with new information. And so as a presenter,
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I feel like you should always be thinking about
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how do I do that? And can I add visuals that
19:32
will really help drive that message home, really
19:35
help make that connection. Um, so. I mean, to
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me, that's a really important thing. I'll show
19:41
you. Actually, I did a, um, on that order of
19:46
operations idea. I was looking for some examples
19:49
of how, how could I make. This idea of order
19:53
of operations, connect with kids and, and, or
19:56
my, my students, what would they remember? And,
19:59
um, so I did a search and found some ideas for
20:01
visuals. And an example would be like, um, making
20:05
a sandwich and that you do it and you follow
20:08
these certain steps. And in order to do that,
20:11
you make a good sandwich. So there's an example
20:13
of me maybe showing a picture of a sandwich as
20:15
I talk about this and I'm trying to connect.
20:18
You know, this new information of order operations
20:21
with the existing knowledge they have of making
20:24
a sandwich. So I think those kinds of things
20:26
really make for a good presentation. So, and
20:30
what do you do? Like, so say you have someone
20:32
who has some, let's say they, they created the
20:35
first slide of the DSU slide that you had. It's
20:38
almost like there, maybe they've got some anxiety
20:41
of like, well, I've got to include these, all
20:43
these things, you know, like. All these things
20:45
are, I find important. So I've got to figure
20:47
out a way to keep everything in the one slide.
20:51
Um, what do you, what do you do with someone
20:54
to help them decide what to include and what
20:58
to leave out? Cause if, if we look at the transition
21:00
from the first slide to the second, you can see
21:03
some things, right? They disappear, some things
21:05
move them. So what do you do with someone if
21:07
they have a slide like that? What's your, how
21:10
do you approach that with helping them address
21:12
those items on there? Yeah. So I think, um, so
21:16
this is something that I, I want people to think
21:20
about. And so if I was helping somebody, I would
21:22
ask them this, like, um, you know, sometimes
21:26
I think we get confused. We get these two things
21:28
confused. Am I creating a handout? Am I going
21:31
to create something that I would give my audience
21:33
that they would read? Or am I creating visuals
21:36
that I'm going to show as I speak? to really
21:40
highlight and illustrate key ideas. So sometimes
21:43
people treat these two things the same, you know,
21:46
they're putting their presentation together and
21:48
really it's a handout. The information is important.
21:51
They want people to read it. And it doesn't mean
21:55
it shouldn't ever be shared. It just maybe should
21:57
be shared in a different way. So I try to get
22:00
them to think about there's a difference here,
22:02
right? So if you have all that information is
22:04
really important for your audience, then let's
22:06
give them a handout or, you know, send them to
22:08
a website that they can read later. If you don't
22:11
want to hand out print materials, but just recognize
22:15
that there, there's a difference between these
22:17
two things. So that's the first part that way,
22:19
that way you don't have to tell people, we'll
22:21
get rid of all that stuff. It's not important.
22:23
You can say, yeah, it's still important, but
22:25
you don't need to share it. while you're doing
22:27
your presentation, you can, um, pull out the
22:31
things that are the most important, put those
22:32
on your slide and talk about it and really have
22:37
those viewpoints stick with your audience as
22:41
opposed to lots of words that they may not remember
22:43
any of it. So I think that's, um, that's part
22:46
of it. And then just looking at your slides,
22:48
like I've helped people, they say, look at my
22:49
slides. Can you do things? And some of the things
22:52
I'll say, I'll just ask them questions. Like
22:54
I pulled up on those tips questions, like, you
22:57
know, does it, what on this slide, what's the
22:59
most important thing? What do you really want
23:00
to get? What do you want them to take away from
23:02
this slide? And when you start to think about
23:04
the most important thing, then maybe there are
23:07
other things that can be removed. Um, so those
23:10
are, you know, asking those questions and then
23:12
making that distinction between what's a handout
23:14
and what's actually visuals that's going to illustrate
23:17
my points as I'm speaking. Right, I think that's
23:22
kind of interesting too and I in my brain I'm
23:25
going back to your Thomas Jefferson quote to
23:27
it You know, don't use two words when one will
23:30
do don't use two images when one will do as well,
23:33
right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so to me that that
23:37
connects that makes sense So yeah, and I like
23:41
how those those are coming together in that way
23:44
So you mentioned, you know your seven design?
23:48
principles. You want to share those now with
23:51
us? You have a good time for that. Yeah, perfect.
23:53
So let me I'm going to jump back over to my screen
23:56
share here. I'll I'll just pull up my my list.
24:02
All right, so I'll go back to my slide that has
24:07
just those seven. And I won't go through the
24:10
whole presentation, but I'll just touch on them
24:12
briefly. So. These are the seven design tips
24:18
and you know, there's There's there's you know,
24:22
you could change this to six or two eight or
24:24
two nine These are just seven that I feel like
24:27
are important and I feel like these are all very
24:30
doable You don't have to have a graphic design
24:33
degree to a degree to do these things They're
24:36
very they're very manageable and doable So the
24:39
first two kind of relate to each other keeping
24:41
example keeping it simple and limiting text and
24:44
bullet points Um, like you said, Jeremy, don't
24:48
use two images when one will do that kind of
24:50
connects with keeping it simple. So just really
24:54
think about what's your, what's the, what's the
24:56
point you want to get across and then do that
24:59
in a really simple way, uh, that really drives
25:02
home your point. And then those next two on the
25:04
list using great visuals and making sure visuals
25:07
add value. Those two kind of relate to each other
25:10
to using great visuals is very subjective. Um,
25:15
but I'll just show you an example of what I mean
25:18
by great visual. So if I was, um, gonna talk
25:23
about, I was going to tell it, let's say I'm
25:25
doing a presentation. I'm going to tell a story
25:26
about going to a carnival. Um, I could find clip
25:30
art like this, or I could find clip art like
25:35
this. And I think this, this one is, uh, a better
25:39
example of a visual. It's more interesting. It's
25:43
the colors are vibrant and we might be able to
25:46
connect with that in a different way. Here's
25:47
another one for talking about gravity. Um, you
25:50
could show this one clip art pixelated doesn't
25:53
look good at all. Or if we're talking about gravity,
25:56
we could show an interesting picture like this,
25:59
um, of this lamb. Up in the air and and use that
26:04
as a launching point to talk about gravity So
26:07
great visuals is a very subjective one But I
26:10
think just think about what would be interesting
26:12
to your audience And now there's a lot of good
26:15
tools out there to find good visuals and then
26:19
the second piece of that that relates to it is
26:21
really that idea of Making sure the visuals add
26:24
value like I talked about like make sure it's
26:27
a visual that helps Convey your points Um, utilizing
26:31
white space. I talked about that. It's really
26:33
important to make sure your items have room to
26:35
breathe. Unifying the design and creating contrast
26:38
are both really important as well. Um, unifying
26:42
the design is one that, uh, is maybe on this
26:46
list in some ways, it can be maybe the most,
26:49
one of the more challenging ones. I'll show you
26:51
what I mean by unifying the design. So when I,
26:54
um, Start to put together a presentation and
26:57
I'm really thinking about the visuals. I try
27:00
to be consistent with my fonts. So here's my
27:02
font list. I'm going to use, um, I'm going to
27:05
use this font that the word says titles and I'm
27:08
going to have it in a. colored rectangular box.
27:11
The text on the slides is just going to be text
27:13
like that. And then if I have questions, I'm
27:15
going to use this script font. So I'm going to
27:17
limit my fonts to two or three. That's it. Every
27:20
slide is going to only use those two or three.
27:23
And then colors, I have a lot of colors here.
27:26
This is a present. Normally I would probably
27:28
have four, three to, I would say three to five
27:31
colors. And that's all I'm going to use throughout
27:33
the whole presentation. So limiting text, the
27:37
number of fonts that you use. And then deciding
27:40
on a color palette those things really help unify
27:43
the design and then here's a here's another illustration
27:46
of How you could do this. So here's a poor example
27:50
and this came from a book I think this came from
27:52
the book presentations in which has been around
27:55
a while as popular here's a an example of where
27:58
the design is not unified and what I mean by
28:02
that is we have all sorts of different types
28:05
of images or visuals around this eight ways to
28:10
improve health. So we have clip art, the apple,
28:14
we have kind of clip art icon -y type things,
28:17
the broccoli, the hiking boot. We have an icon
28:21
that's white. We have um, an icon that's, uh,
28:24
in a circle. We have a photograph of the salad.
28:28
We have a photograph of the kids. So we have
28:29
all, we have photographs, icons, graphics, all
28:33
different colors, all different styles. And that
28:36
can be distracting for learners. So, and it just
28:39
doesn't look as professional as if we were to
28:41
unify it. So here's this same slide with a more
28:45
unified design. So, um, same thing, eight ways
28:50
to improve health. but all of these are icons
28:55
inside of these Squares with rounded edges and
28:59
they're white and so we are doing the exact same
29:02
thing But we've unified design and we've been
29:04
really consistent in our visual approach so that
29:08
that one this one is tricky because you know
29:10
finding those things can be hard but The nice
29:13
thing is we're going to talk a little bit about
29:15
tools later. There are some really good tools
29:17
to help with those types of things too. So unifying
29:19
the design. And then the last one is creating
29:21
contrast. So contrast is important and contrast.
29:24
We often think about contrast just simply as
29:27
like colors. So here's really good contrast.
29:32
Here is not good contrast. Here's another example
29:36
of kind of poor contrast. So we want to have
29:39
a lot of, we want to have dark. backgrounds and
29:43
white text or light backgrounds and dark text.
29:47
But we also can create contrast with, um, not
29:51
just with dark and light, but with the different
29:55
styles. So watch what happens to this slide when
29:58
I add contrast and the contrast that I'm adding
30:01
here is I'm changing this, the font color, the
30:07
font, um, the font weight Um, and so that adds
30:12
contrast. It kind of highlights certain things.
30:14
So you can almost see that this one, um, when
30:17
I, when I add that contrast, it makes those years
30:20
stand out a little more. So on there, you can
30:23
see when I've added the contrast, how 18, 81,
30:27
18, they stand out a little more. So if you have
30:29
things that you really want to highlight to users,
30:32
um, contrast can really. can really help do that
30:36
either through that through colors or through
30:39
styles of fonts and things like that. So there's
30:41
that list. And so those are seven things that
30:45
I think are really, really helpful and important
30:47
for for remembering when you're doing visual
30:50
design. Yeah, I like how you you help the audience
30:55
differentiate between things, because like if
30:58
you have the you know how your questions font
31:01
was different. It's interesting to me because
31:04
the first time an audience sees that, you might
31:08
have to prompt them. But I feel like then the
31:10
second, third time that you might have a question,
31:13
they're already going to associate that font
31:16
with, oh, it's another question that I'm going
31:18
to partake in this conversation or answer the
31:21
question. So it's really interesting to see that.
31:24
One other interesting thing that was going through
31:27
my head here is you were going through your principles
31:29
too. And I'm not sure if the intention is there
31:33
or not, but it also made your slides, your visuals,
31:38
your presentation feel much more accessible to
31:42
people with disabilities or other impairments,
31:45
right? And is that a natural consequence of following
31:48
these principles, you think? Or is that something
31:50
you're consciously considering as you do it at
31:53
the same time? You know, I think it's a natural
31:56
consequence because I feel like For me personally,
32:01
that's an area that I need to improve on is thinking
32:03
about accessibility, but we know there are specific
32:10
things we can do to make our visuals more accessible
32:13
to everybody. So you're spot on, like it totally
32:18
can impact that for our audience. I feel like
32:23
in the case of my slides, it's kind of more maybe
32:25
just it happened by chance. I feel like that's
32:28
an area where I need to be more intentional and
32:30
deliberate about that because you can, you can
32:32
totally make things more accessible for your
32:36
audience by using these principles. Yeah, I really
32:39
feel that way. I feel it does a good job of just
32:41
making sure it just happens, you know, and it
32:44
should be something that we consciously consider,
32:46
but you're right. And I think it's something
32:48
that definitely we all need to work on. It is
32:51
interesting though, because it made me, it's
32:53
kind of reminiscent of like captions when you
32:55
see them on your TV. I mean, it's typically going
32:57
to be the black box with the white text, you
33:00
know, and that kind of follows what you're saying,
33:02
Jeremy, about that's, that's already maybe taking
33:05
into account the accessibility, but it matches
33:08
the stuff that Kevin has as the design principles
33:10
too. So it's interesting. Um, what it, so just
33:16
thinking about like your. with the advent of
33:20
AI and all the stuff that has come about with
33:22
that. What are some ways that maybe you would
33:27
show us a little bit just with certain tools
33:30
like a chat GPT and Jeremy and I have covered
33:34
a bunch of different AI tools because it's still
33:36
prevalent in education now. What are some ways
33:39
that you use tools like that to incorporate the
33:44
ideas that we've been discussing? You know, that's
33:48
interesting. I feel like, um, uh, I haven't used
33:52
it as much as, um, I should be, you know, having
33:56
used chat GPT as much as I should be, because,
33:58
um, I've just been thinking about these ideas,
34:01
but, um, for me personally, I'm trying to get
34:03
in the habit of thinking about chat GPT as a
34:07
teaching assistant. So I'm thinking about when,
34:09
you know, if I had a really good assistant, somebody
34:13
that I could just bounce ideas off of, what would
34:16
I ask it? So let me show you some examples of
34:19
what I mean by that and how you could potentially
34:21
use this to do some of these things I've talked
34:23
about. So let me, I'll share my screen again
34:28
and I'll show you a couple ideas here. All right,
34:33
so I'm gonna start, I'll start a new one. So
34:36
I put together some text. So I went back to one
34:39
of those slides that had all that text about
34:42
order of operations. And that was really just
34:46
a way to illustrate a slide that had too much
34:50
info on it. So let me go back so you can see
34:52
what I'm talking about. So I'll go all the way
34:55
back to this slide. So I'm going to share information
34:59
on the order of operations with my audience.
35:01
And I decided that all of this information is
35:04
really important. But I know I need to keep it
35:08
I know I need to keep it simple So I'm gonna
35:10
use chat GPT to help me simplify this so I'm
35:13
gonna take all this text So I just put it into
35:16
a Google back and just so I could copy it and
35:18
I'll put it over here And I'm just gonna ask
35:21
chat GPT I'm gonna say I'm working on a I'm working
35:29
on a presentation for my middle school math students
35:35
on the operations. So when I'm using chat GPT,
35:41
I always try to give I try to give it some context.
35:45
I find that I get better results if I am specific
35:49
about what I'm looking for. So I'm working on
35:50
this presentation for my middle school math students
35:53
on the order of operations. I have a lot of text.
35:58
Want to simplify it. Here is what I have. Let's
36:07
see what it says. I'll just paste in that block
36:10
of text. So, I mean, I'm not sure that for this
36:15
particular example that you would need to have
36:17
a GPT to help you. You know, I felt like my illustration
36:21
there with all those words was kind of an exaggerated
36:23
example, but you can see how it took all that
36:26
text. And now I could put this on the slide.
36:28
And just by doing that, I've already made huge
36:30
improvements. Um, you know, and of course, I
36:33
think it's really important for you as the human
36:36
to look at this with a critical eye and make
36:38
sure that what it gave back to you was accurate.
36:41
Um, and what you want to convey, but it does
36:44
a really nice job of, of simplifying things.
36:48
Um, let me do, um, okay. I'm looking at it. I
36:52
think it's kind of funny because you told it,
36:54
it was the middle school audience. So it just
36:56
now. It wants to connect it with a little bit
36:59
of humor because it knows the GPT must know middle
37:02
schoolers. Right. Exactly. And then, you know,
37:05
the other nice thing is if I said, you know what,
37:07
that's still maybe, let me just see what happens
37:09
if I say still too much info. Simplify it a little
37:15
more. Let's see what it does now. So it even
37:21
simplifies it even further. So you could, you
37:24
know, you can sort of decide and it even goes
37:27
beyond that. So, um, so just like, I think that's,
37:31
you know, one way to use chat GPT. I think keeping
37:33
our information, uh, really simple is important
37:37
and you could even put in there when you give
37:39
it the prompt, you could say the most important
37:41
thing I want to convey is this. Uh, and see what
37:44
chat GPT does to help you come up with something.
37:48
Another way you could use this tool is like I
37:50
said, like we want to find visuals to help convey
37:54
our ideas. So let me give it a prompt to see
37:57
what it can help me with there. And so this is
37:59
the part where sometimes finding visuals, um,
38:03
to convey your idea that it takes some like That
38:06
can be hard. Like something, you know, if something's
38:08
not popping in your head right away. So maybe
38:11
chat GPD can help. So let's say, um, uh, I'm
38:14
going to continue this thread here. So I don't
38:17
know. These aren't, this isn't exactly what I
38:19
was looking for with the examples, but actually
38:21
they're not bad. And then the visuals, this is
38:24
kind of what I was thinking about here. Um, credit
38:28
branching path of multiple routes. So maybe that
38:31
would generate some ideas. Um, how about a visual?
38:36
that connects with something that middle school
38:43
students could connect with. Let's see what it
38:49
says about that. So there's kind of an idea.
38:53
So if you wanted something that they could connect
38:56
with, you know, building a burger, and you could...
39:00
Pull in the different pieces, uh, to try to,
39:03
you know, again, this would be just to try to
39:05
connect with stuff they're familiar with getting
39:07
ready in the morning. Video game power -ups.
39:11
So I think just, you know, using chat GPT to
39:14
do some of these things, um, that, uh, then I'm
39:18
talking about simplifying, coming up with visuals
39:21
that convey your message. I think that chat GPT
39:24
can be a really, that can be a really nice resource
39:26
for helping do those kinds of things. Awesome.
39:31
So David, kind of as I'm looking at our questions
39:34
that we had, I think we kind of hit number eight
39:36
pretty good. Yeah. Would you say and Kevin, we
39:40
can like skip over that one, I think. Yeah. Okay.
39:46
So here's where we can edit out things. Okay.
39:51
Do you want to pick up again with this one, David?
39:53
Or do you want to just switch the last two? Yeah,
39:56
I can just do it again. So, Kevin, just when
40:02
you're designing things, what are the, where
40:05
do you draw inspiration from for the creative
40:08
pieces of your presentations? Or even your books,
40:12
your illustrations too. Yeah. So, I'm just kind
40:19
of looking here at my notes. Yeah, so inspiration
40:23
for me is definitely, you know, the world around
40:26
me. the things that I like and the things that
40:29
I think are funny. So I mean, I love movies.
40:32
I love sports. I really try to keep my finger
40:35
on the pulse of pop culture. I think that's important.
40:39
You know, if you're a teacher, keeping your finger
40:41
on the pulse of what's going on with students,
40:43
what are they like? What are they into now? And
40:46
then using those ideas for inspiration. You know,
40:51
sometimes I feel like in education specifically,
40:56
There's a disconnect between the world we live
40:59
in and then the education in the classroom that
41:01
we attend and so if we can help sort of Bring
41:05
some of those things that students are doing
41:06
outside of the classroom into the classroom in
41:09
visuals whatever That's I think that that can
41:14
that's really kind of that's kind of where I
41:16
get my inspiration, you know And I use I'm on
41:19
social media quite a bit. So I use Instagram.
41:21
I love Instagram for inspiration I follow artists
41:25
and illustrators and teachers. And yeah, I just
41:30
feel like that's a great source for me for getting
41:33
inspiration for things. Are there specific tools
41:37
that can help or software applications that you
41:39
think help to bring your inspirations to life?
41:42
Yeah, I do. So I'm a Mac user. So all of the
41:46
presentations that I build, I use the presentation
41:50
tool on the Mac keynote. So it would be similar
41:52
to PowerPoint. I just like, I like keynote, it's
41:56
just the way, the way the interface works, how
41:59
you can control the position of things on your
42:02
screen. I just, I love it. It's just the workflow
42:04
is really easy for me. But the, probably the,
42:08
the graphics tool that I feel like has kind of
42:11
taken, has taken us by storm in some ways is
42:15
Canva. So Canva has just, you know, it's a web
42:19
-based graphics tool. I feel like most people
42:22
have heard about it or know about it. Um, and
42:25
they have done such a good job of helping people
42:28
create good visuals by doing things like giving
42:32
them templates. They have really good kind of
42:34
education materials that you can learn about.
42:37
Like, how do you select fonts? And they do things
42:39
like helping you select color palettes and I'm
42:42
doing. Helping you remove the background of images
42:45
so that things fit together better. So I feel
42:49
like canvas, just an amazing tool, um, for, you
42:53
know, that's easy to use, um, low cost. Uh, that's
42:57
one of the nice things about this, you know,
42:59
at one point when we had graphics tools, it was
43:01
like, you had to be a professional graphic designer
43:03
and have Photoshop or, um, illustrator. And now,
43:08
um, those things are still. you know, great for
43:11
professionals, but for, for teachers, for people
43:14
that are creating presentations now, things like
43:16
Canva, um, they're just, they're just awesome.
43:19
Yeah. And I think it's very, I personally love
43:22
Canva as well. And I've used it a ton and Jeremy
43:24
has used it as well. And I feel like the one
43:26
thing that is nice about that tool as well is
43:29
I feel like anybody can dive into that tool.
43:33
It, you know, it's extremely accessible. And,
43:36
um, while they have Mass of things that are available
43:39
to you I've never in any way felt like it's overwhelming
43:43
like I feel like I've been able to you know work
43:46
through the different things that they have or
43:47
upload my own stuff and I like it a lot, you
43:51
know, and here's an interesting thing about that
43:53
like I Feel like it and I feel like at one point
43:58
everybody Use PowerPoint. That's still maybe
44:00
as the majority, you know, maybe the majority
44:02
of people use PowerPoint, but in some ways PowerPoint
44:05
led us down this path of lots of texts and lots
44:10
of bullet points. You know, it was almost like
44:12
their, their initial templates were like, here's
44:14
your title and here's this huge block and we've
44:17
got it set up so you can use 20 bullet points.
44:20
But Canva is really different than that. Right?
44:23
I feel like Canva is based on better visual designs.
44:27
So just people. without having any training,
44:30
you just end up with things that look better.
44:32
So, um, so yeah, it's the, I think it's a, it's
44:34
a great, it's a great tool for, for everyone.
44:37
And like you said, I mean, so easy, you know,
44:39
I have in elementary students can learn to use
44:42
Canva and, um, start to, you know, and I think
44:45
teaching even young students about visual design
44:47
is important, you know? And it's funny because
44:50
as a teacher, when I taught, I I always use PowerPoint
44:55
at, you know, early on and, and for college as
44:58
well. And then I feel like Google was big. So
45:01
then I moved to Google slides and I use Google
45:03
slides primarily. And now I've abandoned all
45:05
of it entirely and I make pretty much everything
45:07
in Canva. So it's been interesting just like
45:11
riding that way. Yep. So the other, you know,
45:13
another tool that I do use and, um, and I see
45:17
these tools, this happens a lot with tech tools.
45:19
I feel like they continue to add features and
45:20
they sort of start to, you know, You know, they
45:24
kind of start to look similar, but the tool that
45:27
I used to use a lot with my students was Adobe.
45:30
It started out as Adobe Voice, and then it was
45:33
Adobe Spark and now it's Adobe Express. And I
45:36
don't know if you've looked at Adobe Express,
45:38
but the interface looks very similar to Canva.
45:41
And the edge that I would give Adobe Express
45:45
over Canva is like in some of their video creation.
45:50
Um, tools that are in there, you can do a better
45:52
job. I feel like with adding audio and you can
45:55
really do more, almost like, you know, very basic
45:58
video editing in Adobe express. Um, Canva has
46:02
video features, but I feel like that's an area
46:05
that isn't great yet on Canva. But anyway, I
46:08
feel like as these tools sort of compete for,
46:12
for users, um, they just continue to add features
46:15
and they just get better and better. Uh, do we
46:18
feel like we covered 11 pretty good as well?
46:22
Uh, yeah, I think you touched on a lot of that,
46:25
even with the inspiration stuff that you talked
46:27
about and connecting with kids and that sort
46:29
of thing. Okay. So, um, Jeremy, you're going
46:34
to do question 12 then. Sure. Yeah, you can kind
46:37
of bring it a little bit to a conclusion here
46:39
So sure before the outro the only thing I'll
46:42
do Kevin is maybe after Jeremy does this question
46:45
and you're you're finished. I'll just ask what
46:48
your socials are and and then any plugs that
46:52
you want to do for you like your children's books
46:54
or anything and if we can if you have links for
46:56
us to or anything we can put it in the show notes
46:59
for when we release the video. I'll do that.
47:02
I'll do that. And I'll show at the end. I'll
47:04
show up here. I have the book here. I'll just
47:05
kind of show that. So at the very end. Yeah,
47:07
perfect. Thanks for letting me do that. Cool.
47:09
Yeah. So finally, Kevin, you know, if you had
47:14
one key piece of advice that you could give to
47:17
anyone looking to improve their presentation
47:19
skills, what would that be? So. You know, just
47:24
like so many things in our lives, I, in our lives
47:27
there, I feel like there's an art and a science
47:29
to, to it. You know, whether it's teaching or
47:32
designing visuals, there's an art and a science
47:34
and. You know, with, with visual design, some
47:37
people just naturally have a good eye for design.
47:40
You said, Jeremy, you said that about your wife.
47:42
Like she just has an eye for it. Right. And I
47:44
feel like that is the art of design and it's
47:47
hard to teach that. Um, some people just have
47:50
that, um, But with visual design, there's also
47:53
a science to it. And the science, uh, are those
47:57
things that I mentioned, like understanding what
48:00
white space is and how to use it and the value
48:02
of it. Um, understanding how to select fonts,
48:05
um, knowing how important contrast is, um, being
48:10
intentional about your visuals. So the science
48:12
is kind of learning some of those basic visual
48:15
design principles and they're not. It doesn't
48:18
mean you have to get a degree in it. You can
48:20
just learn those basic principles and you can
48:24
really sort of have the science under your belt.
48:26
And I've seen it with my own students, how they,
48:29
at the start of this class, this graduate class
48:33
I teach, how they will say my visual design skills
48:36
are terrible. And by the end, it's such a transformation
48:39
because they've learned some of these basic principles.
48:43
So, you know, my advice is if you're if you're
48:46
interested in this, and I hope you are, because
48:48
I feel like visual design is so important. There's
48:51
a lot of research that shows us that learning
48:54
can be enhanced, learning can, you can have greater
48:58
gains in learning by having good visuals. So
49:01
I hope people are interested in it, but my advice
49:03
would be to... Just work on learning some of
49:06
those basic principles and there's a lot of ways
49:08
you can do that I mean you can just go to You
49:10
can just go to Google and or and do a search
49:12
and you'll find YouTube videos or videos on Vimeo
49:15
that talk about What are some of these basic
49:17
principles and there's so many? Great ways for
49:21
people to sort of be self -taught on these things
49:24
and it can really make a difference in in in
49:28
your presentations In your teaching and things
49:31
like that. So I would say You know, my advice
49:33
is be aware of how important it is and then just
49:37
do a little bit of work to learn some of those
49:39
principles. Great for those that are interested
49:45
and and want to learn more about the things that
49:49
you've talked about or even See some work that
49:52
you've done What would be the best places to
49:55
reach you or see some of that work with your
49:57
social media tags or? You know the children's
50:00
book that you've done and things like that. What
50:02
can you share with us there sure? Thanks for
50:04
asking that so I'm active on Instagram and on
50:09
Twitter X Um, so my social media is just Kevin
50:12
Smith SD. So at Kevin Smith SD on both of those
50:17
platforms, uh, I'll also share my website with
50:20
you. It's Kevin D Smith .org. So you can go there
50:24
and I have links to my socials and links to,
50:27
um, presentations I've done and things like that.
50:30
Uh, and then, you know, I'd love it if people
50:32
were interested in learning more about my illustration
50:35
and my book. Um, you can, if you go to my website,
50:38
you can find a copy of my book. Here's the book.
50:40
It's called yucky. This one's kind of, this one's
50:43
kind of worn out cause I've used it so much,
50:45
but, uh, this is the book I wrote it and illustrated
50:47
it. It was published in 2023. Uh, it's about
50:51
this girl. There I'll put it up there. That's
50:53
about this girl Lily that doesn't like math She
50:56
doesn't like math because she thinks it's all
50:58
about it's only about doing calculations and
51:00
she has a creative mind and she has a teacher
51:04
that helps her see the connection between really
51:06
between art and math and It kind of fuels her
51:10
fire for hate Maybe maybe math isn't so yucky.
51:14
I didn't realize that math involved these things
51:17
that I was interested in. So yeah, if you'd like,
51:20
um, a copy of the book, you can go to my website
51:22
and check it out. And one of the things I do
51:25
for classrooms is, um, I read the, I'll read
51:27
the book to classrooms. So, and you can be anywhere.
51:30
Like I'll just connect with your classroom via
51:32
zoom, uh, read the book and then do some drawing
51:35
activities with students and talk about the importance
51:37
of having a positive, uh, attitude about math.
51:40
So yeah, I'd love it if you check that out. We'll
51:45
put all that in the show description for the
51:48
viewers. So if you're wanting to check any of
51:50
that out, which we encourage you to do, look
51:53
at the description and you'll find information
51:55
from what Kevin described there. So thanks again,
51:58
Kevin, for joining us. We really appreciate your
52:01
time and all the tips that you had for us. Yeah.
52:05
Thank you, Kevin. Yeah. Thank you, David. Thanks,
52:07
Jeremy, for having me. Thanks for listening to
52:10
Integrate This. Want to take your learning further?
52:13
head over to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials,
52:16
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52:19
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52:22
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52:33
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