Latest / Conversations with Amoda Maa - Exploring Awareness Through Dialogue and Living Inquiry / Episode 59: Unveiling the Light of Being: Ordinary Life, Extraordinary Openness

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Episode 59: Unveiling the Light of Being: Ordinary Life, Extraordinary Openness · Conversations with Amoda Maa - Exploring Awareness Through Dialogue and Living Inquiry

• 0:00
  Good morning everyone and welcome to another conversations with Amoda Maa
• 0:01
  Hello Amoda Maa
• 0:02
  Hello Kavi
• 0:03
  As you can see we've got the setup again as it was so successful on so many levels.
• 0:04
  Last time that we're giving it another try at the video style it's so much more interesting
• 0:05
  than zoom.
• 0:06
  If a little difficult to set up.
• 0:07
  That's another story.
• 0:08
  So today we're going to somewhat build on part of the conversation that arose in the
• 0:09
  last episode, which was that what emerged was the unpacking or a deeper dive into some
• 0:10
  aspects of what's going to become your new book, which I'll mention.
• 0:11
  Don't let me forget to mention that at the end.
• 0:12
  So essentially what we're going to be talking about is what it means to discover the radiance
• 0:13
  that shines at the heart of who we are.
• 0:14
  Let me read this and then we can dive in and explore and find out what a motor is pointed,
• 0:15
  some of what a motor is pointing to.
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  Is this a good way to start?
• 0:17
  Sounds perfect.
• 0:18
  So often we search for light somewhere outside ourselves, in future experiences, in spiritual
• 0:19
  attainments, or in something we imagine as distant or divine.
• 0:20
  But what if the light we long for is already here?
• 0:21
  What if the radiance of being is quietly shining in the core of our own presence, waiting
• 0:22
  only to be noticed. Today, with a motor, we'll explore what it means to unveil this light of being,
• 0:23
  or to discover the radiance that has always been the essence of who we are.
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  And a little reminder, or an, or an aside in a way, that while this may sound lofty,
• 0:25
  Perhaps it's the most natural thing in the world.
• 0:26
  So let's explore the light of being.
• 0:27
  When you speak of this light of being, and you do speak of this more and more these days,
• 0:28
  the radiance of our essential nature, when you speak of the light of being, what are you pointing to?
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  that the light of being is not an aspect of the personality self, but rather that which is prior
• 0:30
  to personality, that which is prior to thought, prior to emotion, prior to any experience or
• 0:31
  perception that we have, it's that which is always here as our essential nature. It's
• 0:32
  not dependent on our personality, whether we're good or good enough or whether we've
• 0:33
  purified ourselves enough or whether we've perfected ourselves on a spiritual level.
• 0:34
  It's not dependent on what emotions we experience,
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  or the circumstances and events of our lives.
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  It's not dependent on our culture,
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  or our gender, or our age,
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  or our spiritual achievements,
• 0:39
  or worldly achievements.
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  It is our essential nature.
• 0:41
  As such, it is common or universal
• 0:42
  to all human beings is essentially our being nature, the very fact of our being.
• 0:43
  We could say the "I am", that's how we come to recognize the essential beingness that
• 0:44
  we are by recognising, I am which every human being can say, can know, can recognise.
• 0:45
  Why is it the light of being?
• 0:46
  I want to ask you specifically, well here we go already very quickly.
• 0:47
  You use two very significant words, radiance and light.
• 0:48
  You specifically, more than, I don't know this for a fact, but more than other teachers,
• 0:49
  you speak of this because you're not just speaking of awareness.
• 0:50
  You're actually, is it fair to say you're giving you the quality?
• 0:51
  No, actually, well that's a good question and an interesting question.
• 0:52
  I would say no, the essential nature of awareness is, let's call it emptiness.
• 0:53
  We can use these words interchangeably.
• 0:54
  We could say, we are essentially speaking of awareness, which is also interchangeable
• 0:55
  with being.
• 0:56
  This could be argued semantically and even philosophically, but for the purposes of our
• 0:57
  conversation, and perhaps we'll go deeper into what we mean by being, but why is it
• 0:58
  called light?
• 0:59
  Why am I referring to it as the light or radiance of being?
• 1:00
  in the sense not that it has a specific quality like a colour, it hasn't got a
• 1:01
  perceptual quality, but rather devoid of content, that which is prior to content
• 1:02
  which we can say is emptiness. Emptiness also has connotations. But it's light
• 1:03
  because it's transparent as such. And very much like the sky, you can't really
• 1:04
  really say the sky is a particular colour. And yet you would say it has a transparency
• 1:05
  to it. So light of being in the sense that it's not coloured by anything. It's great.
• 1:06
  And it will, I mean, we could really go into this and I'm sure we may go deeper or broader,
• 1:07
  but it has a lightness to it, a lightness of quality in the sense of how one experiences
• 1:08
  it.
• 1:09
  So it's not light in comparison to dark.
• 1:10
  It's not, you're not using it comparatively.
• 1:11
  Well, we are also because the light of being is obscured. Let's put it in these terms.
• 1:12
  The light of being is simply another way of saying and perhaps a more eloquent and accurate
• 1:13
  way of saying, awakening to true nature. When we awaken to true nature, we're awakening
• 1:14
  to our essential being nature. We can also say awareness, the open field of awareness,
• 1:15
  open awareness itself, that which underlies all experience and that which remains when
• 1:16
  all experience comes and goes. Awakening is also enlightenment when I'm not using the
• 1:17
  the facile use of the term awakening, or the superficial use of it, I mean true awakening,
• 1:18
  awakening out of the dream of ego identity or separate self. That's the same as enlightenment.
• 1:19
  Why is it called enlightenment? Because it's as if the light that was always here has been
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  the unobscured, the illusory prison bars of the separate self have come undone.
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  They were never there in the first place.
• 1:22
  So it's simply like the clouds have parted and that which was always here.
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  Our true nature shines through.
• 1:24
  Well, all traditions and all spiritual traditions will have some reference to the light.
• 1:25
  Yes, indeed.
• 1:26
  we become illuminated. Again, that's why I said at the beginning, it's not about the personhood,
• 1:27
  the personality, it's not, we suddenly become a light being in the sense of the perfected
• 1:28
  being and, you know, perfect personality and perfect characteristics. It's not on that
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  level, it's simply that which is already here, which is naked of experience prior to experience,
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  shines through.
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  And so I hear, I like this, and the mind, the descriptive mind, the defining mind wants
• 1:32
  to give it a quality.
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  I'm not saying that's good or bad, but I am saying that the mind wants to give it a quality.
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  And I hear that it doesn't have those distinctive kind of qualities in a way that we describe
• 1:35
  other things because it's primary, it's what's left whenever the answer is taken away.
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  When all qualities have been taken away.
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  That's what I mean.
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  So in that sense, it is quality-less.
• 1:39
  it is in its essential nature, of course, just like the sun is or the light that comes from
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  the sun, as that light touches or reaches the content of the world, the content of experience,
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  then it has a quality. If the light shines upon the earth, then that has a certain quality
• 1:42
  on the earthly dimension. If the light of being shines, if you like, into our lives,
• 1:43
  through into our lives, then our experience has a certain quality.
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  But it's at the point that it touches the experience that creates duality, that creates
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  the quality of duality, left to its own devices or left alone. It just is.
• 1:46
  Yes, there's no discussion.
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  It's the londure, of course.
• 1:48
  Yes.
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  But I think it is good to just get that clear,
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  because light is an oft used phrase these days, used by many,
• 1:51
  to talk of dimensions or fifth dimensions
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  or how the light--
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  What am I saying? It's sort of can quite easily be hijacked from its pristineness.
• 1:54
  Of course, all terms are hijacked. Awakening is hijacked. And all of that.
• 1:55
  Do you find it difficult to speak of these things?
• 1:56
  Not at all. Not in...
• 1:57
  Even though misunderstanding is inherent in the...
• 1:58
  No, I, in, in the context of what's offered through the teaching, which is really the
• 1:59
  only place that this is spoken of, through my books.
• 2:00
  Well, we do talk about it sometimes at the breakfast time.
• 2:01
  Well, apart from that.
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  But in the context of the teaching where those that come to participate in events are already
• 2:03
  in the field of seeking freedom, true freedom, self-realization, the deeper dimension of
• 2:04
  being and so on.
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  Therefore, it speaks to that.
• 2:06
  if I were to speak about it in another context, like mainstream media, then perhaps that would
• 2:07
  be a problem.
• 2:08
  I think it would be fun on a podcast, you know, NBC or whatever, you know.
• 2:09
  I find that our conversations in these podcasts are, they somewhat span a little bit of the
• 2:10
  breadth of the human everyday dimensionless and what's offered through the teaching.
• 2:11
  Yeah, I agree.
• 2:12
  partly that's my doing because I want to know how the light, the radiance, the essential
• 2:13
  nature of a shows up in life because it's the human condition that is of interest to me.
• 2:14
  And I know that people, because it strikes me that everybody one way or another is searching
• 2:15
  almost for the same thing in very obscured ways. And the light of being that has been
• 2:16
  pointed to in every tradition, in every religion, ultimately, in every spiritual
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  tradition is always pointing to the same thing. But nowadays in the contemporary world,
• 2:18
  we want it to show up in our lives. So it's, it's, it's
• 2:19
  isn't it? For sure. So, well, let's keep going. Can we keep going with this a little bit more?
• 2:20
  Absolutely.
• 2:21
  Is it something, I mean, you answer all these questions so succinctly and so quickly,
• 2:22
  but is this radiance, this light, this essential nature or there's something we discover?
• 2:23
  Is it something that is already there?
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  And do we in some way already know it?
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  Yes, it's already here.
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  It's never left us.
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  It never can leave us, it's the most intimate.
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  And yes, it's a discovery or a...
• 2:29
  Revelation that takes place.
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  And what was the third question?
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  Do we already know it?
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  Do we already know it?
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  Even if it's covered over.
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  Yes, again, that's a good question.
• 2:35
  Yes, we do, but it's covered over.
• 2:36
  Yes, we do.
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  It's not something that we have to manufacture.
• 2:38
  It's not something that we have to achieve.
• 2:39
  Again, that's why I said it's nothing to do with the personality, with the personhood,
• 2:40
  that if it did this practice or followed this spiritual or religious tradition
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  or meditated enough or got rid of all its negative traits,
• 2:42
  then it would be the light of being or whatever.
• 2:43
  Not at all. It's not dependent on that.
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  It's already here and we already know it in the depth of our being.
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  It's simply that the depth of being is overlooked.
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  So, again.
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  What?
• 2:48
  we're born as this light.
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  The light of being is prior to birth.
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  It's the formless.
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  It's the formless,
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  groundless, ground out of which we are born.
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  It's that which exists prior to existence.
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  So all of this is a veil.
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  Life.
• 2:56
  Well, it can be a veil, yes.
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  It does veil.
• 2:58
  It does veil.
• 2:59
  True nature.
• 3:00
  Okay. Because I wanted to talk about the veils. How is it so obscured?
• 3:01
  by the identification with the content of our experience. All we're doing here really
• 3:02
  is talking about the veiled sense of self, which is ego identity, versus the illuminated
• 3:03
  itself, or perhaps the unveiled self, that is always here and always has been. It's just
• 3:04
  another way of speaking to that.
• 3:05
  Yeah. We're simply speaking about waking up to true nature. Yes.
• 3:06
  in order to, we could say that babies,
• 3:07
  tiny babies, newborn babies, they're not veiled.
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  I mean, there's a certain veil that takes place
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  simply through the act of being born.
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  - Yes, is that?
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  - Experience comes into view.
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  Suddenly there's sensations and shapes and colors
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  and energies that weren't in the field.
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  So that's the first failing.
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  But then the
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  veils of personality haven't formed.
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  The veils of identity haven't formed yet.
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  That forms with language and conditioning and so on.
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  And the more that forms, the more entrapped we become
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  as a sense of separate me, a me sense.
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  And then at some point there's a desire to break free of that
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  because it's the cause of suffering.
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  That's why we're really speaking to seekers.
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  We can't really speak to anything else.
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  It's the seeker who has any possibility
• 3:26
  of waking up to this truth.
• 3:27
  You can't convince.
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  If those that are enjoying, if you like, or not enjoying,
• 3:29
  the drama of being identified as this and that and this and that and all the polarities
• 3:30
  that take place in the world, that's being lost in the matrix, then that's what's happening.
• 3:31
  But those that have come to a point of deep suffering within that experience and see the
• 3:32
  potential for something more innocent, more fresh and more true, we call them a spiritual
• 3:33
  seeker and that's what we're speaking to.
• 3:34
  And so it seems that once that's glimpsed in a way, then the journey really begins of
• 3:35
  the unveiling.
• 3:36
  Yes.
• 3:37
  That's where some of the trouble, not we're not going to explore the trouble today, but
• 3:38
  I just wanted to name it because one of the questions was, can moments of pain or suffering
• 3:39
  sometimes open a crack where this light of being shines through?
• 3:40
  Well moments of pain or suffering like shock, some kind of shock, something sudden that
• 3:41
  happens something dramatic, something very unexpected or intense pain, intense, sometimes
• 3:42
  psychological pain, can bring the mind to a standstill.
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  And that's where the crack is if you like.
• 3:44
  it brings us into presence and in presence there is no identity and in presence there
• 3:45
  is no sense of a separate me in a moment of presence and it's often missed but we could
• 3:46
  say moments of intense beauty or intense pain either way. Anything that just stops the mind
• 3:47
  could be the zen stick, just the zen stick of life, will bring us into such intimate presence
• 3:48
  and in a, it's like the mind just stops, where there's no narrative about the experience,
• 3:49
  there's no narrative about the me having the experience.
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  And in that moment, one would say that the veils have parted, and there's the possibility
• 3:51
  of recognizing that as the fundamental nature of self and the fundamental nature of reality.
• 3:52
  Now for many, that just gets missed, gets overlooked.
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  That's why this speaks to the spiritual seeker.
• 3:54
  there has to be some direction in this way to even be able to recognise it.
• 3:55
  I think when you're talking about that, you know, in terms of presence, which is what
• 3:56
  I talk about, it... What seems to happen is there's a directness, right? That's what
• 3:57
  we've talked about that before. There's no referencing going on, there's no adjectives,
• 3:58
  There's no summary, there's no description, there's no distance between you and the experience.
• 3:59
  The experience is direct.
• 4:00
  And in that directness, something opens, something stops and something seems to open for people.
• 4:01
  And that's one of the initial revelations for people.
• 4:02
  Correct?
• 4:03
  Yes.
• 4:04
  Yes.
• 4:05
  And people miss that.
• 4:06
  you know, so some people miss it and just carry on and some people see it and then start to pursue
• 4:07
  it and there's a goodness in that or as a longing in that and there's also an issue in that because
• 4:08
  it's trying to tend to try and recreate that experience and no experience can be recreated.
• 4:09
  Yes.
• 4:10
  But it's so, so if one has one of those experiences that say the mind stops, something bad happens,
• 4:11
  something good happens, or there's a seeing of beauty, then does that, can that be a catalyst
• 4:12
  for the journey then that subsequently unfolds from there, which many people are on? The spiritual
• 4:13
  seeking journey. Of course, yes, yes, it's a catalyst. Any glimpse of, let's call it freedom,
• 4:14
  liberation from the self that is craving or rejecting experience, any glimpse of freedom
• 4:15
  is a catalyst for a deeper inquiry.
• 4:16
  Why do people get stuck?
• 4:17
  Stuck in what?
• 4:18
  In the pernicious density of the veiling,
• 4:19
  when maybe they've had a glimpse and said,
• 4:20
  "Well, I know this and I've seen this."
• 4:21
  And it's obvious that underneath all of this,
• 4:22
  there's something more essential,
• 4:23
  or something light, something true, something real, something direct, something more free,
• 4:24
  something peaceful, and yet.
• 4:25
  The tendency to get hooked into identifying with experience is an ancient, well it's
• 4:26
  It's called archaic psychological mechanism.
• 4:27
  Mechanism.
• 4:28
  And the karma, if you like, of humanity's millennia of humanity all comes into the singularity
• 4:29
  of the self.
• 4:30
  And so it feels like...
• 4:31
  That's a heavy weight.
• 4:32
  Well...
• 4:33
  Jeez.
• 4:34
  It's true.
• 4:35
  Yes, that's right.
• 4:36
  I agree, entirely.
• 4:37
  To be free of that, to break free of it or to see through it.
• 4:38
  Seems like a huge...
• 4:39
  hurdle.
• 4:40
  I don't think it is.
• 4:41
  I keep saying it's simple.
• 4:42
  I know.
• 4:43
  And that's what this teaching is for.
• 4:44
  I know.
• 4:45
  Direct and simple.
• 4:46
  Absolutely.
• 4:47
  And surely we know from the people
• 4:48
  that we work with, the individuals that we work with,
• 4:49
  that it becomes more and more available.
• 4:50
  Yeah, that's for sure.
• 4:51
  Yeah.
• 4:52
  So I don't think it's a given that it's a huge hurdle
• 4:53
  or that you have to go through many lifetimes being stuck.
• 4:54
  I want to ask this question, if I may, because we are seeing that with people.
• 4:55
  What is it in the conditions of maybe, without loarding it, promoting ourselves or anything,
• 4:56
  but I'm actually interested in it, what is it in the conditions that we're offering
• 4:57
  or that are facilitating this softening or opening because it's quite interesting because
• 4:58
  there are a lot of teachings out there, there are a lot of people and there are all sorts
• 4:59
  of things happening. Is it a cultural mood? Before we get back to what they're talking
• 5:00
  about the main subject, is there a cultural thing happening? Is it to do with the field
• 5:01
  that we facilitate, is it?
• 5:02
  June, what do you think?
• 5:03
  I'd say there's a potency in the field of gathering with others, with individuals who
• 5:04
  are genuinely seeking a deepening into, let's call it being, genuinely seeking freedom from
• 5:05
  suffering, psychological suffering and the me identity. And when we gather in genuine
• 5:06
  inquiry, I think that field has the potential of a transmittive quality. We live in a field
• 5:07
  in the ordinary world. I don't mean that field. The majority of humans are not awake to true nature
• 5:08
  and therefore most people live in that field and that just perpetuates itself. But you put
• 5:09
  a group of people in a different field and so there's a different vibration.
• 5:10
  I think that's all it is. I mean that's amazing because actually the fields that we exist in
• 5:11
  does provide or shape some of the conditions,
• 5:12
  and conditions, but it does allow things,
• 5:13
  it shapes us in some sort of way,
• 5:14
  not necessarily because you're at the conditions
• 5:15
  where you were, before your awakening
• 5:16
  and what happened for you were very much
• 5:17
  the sort of London, million of cultural conditioning.
• 5:18
  So you, you, but that didn't, didn't stop you.
• 5:19
  - Awakening can take place anywhere at any time.
• 5:20
  - All right, well, let me move.
• 5:21
  (laughs)
• 5:22
  Let me move on to living in the radiance.
• 5:23
  Is it, are we getting to the core of what you,
• 5:24
  what you, you know, digging into something?
• 5:25
  - I have no idea.
• 5:26
  (laughing)
• 5:27
  It's just such a joy always talking to you.
• 5:28
  Let me to ask you about living in the radiance.
• 5:29
  - Okay.
• 5:30
  - Once this light is glimpsed,
• 5:31
  how does it change the way we live our daily lives?
• 5:32
  And I'm gonna get to another question as well
• 5:33
  of what does it look like to embody this radiance
• 5:34
  in ordinary relationships and activities.
• 5:35
  So really essentially, you know,
• 5:36
  how does it inform?
• 5:37
  - Well, it's an absolute complete revolution.
• 5:38
  - Okay.
• 5:39
  - Revolutionizes our way of seeing.
• 5:40
  instead of seeing from what can I get, what must I get, either emotionally or materially
• 5:41
  or in any way, what can I get, what's my agenda, what's the outcome that I want. And if we look
• 5:42
  around at the unenlightened state, if you like, the ego state, it's always needing something.
• 5:43
  It needs either needs to find peace and therefore it will go about creating peace by, I don't
• 5:44
  know, changing its environment or this, that, the other.
• 5:45
  Or it needs to have success, or it needs to have recognition, or it needs to have love.
• 5:46
  And I use the word 'have' because the ego self is acquisitive, not inquisitive, acquisitive.
• 5:47
  It wants to acquire something, something more to fulfil its sense of not being good in
• 5:48
  enough, not being worthy enough. In some ways it's incompleteness, it's lack of wholeness.
• 5:49
  But the thing is the ego doesn't actually exist. So in some ways it's trying to fill
• 5:50
  up a whole that there isn't here. It just perceives itself to be not good enough, not
• 5:51
  worthy enough. And of course then it attaches to, well that happened in my life and my father
• 5:52
  was like this or my mother was like that and that's why I don't feel good enough. So it
• 5:53
  creates a whole bunch of narratives upon which it thinks it exists to justify this undercurrent
• 5:54
  of something's not quite right. I'm not quite there yet. So really it's just a restlessness,
• 5:55
  agitation, a constant seeking into the next moment. Because if the ego, which doesn't
• 5:56
  exist, but the process of ego formation, which is that activity of the mind, the self, would
• 5:57
  actually simply rest completely fully in the now, well it doesn't exist. It actually doesn't
• 5:58
  exist. There's nothing here but presence and intimacy and direct experience. So what was
• 5:59
  the direction we were going in with this? You asked me something. Yes, I know but I can't
• 6:00
  remember. Well, no, I can we just stay with this for a minute because this is very useful
• 6:01
  for people. Oh, how does it? Yes. I think because the ego gets this wrap of being some
• 6:02
  entity, even though I think there have been a million conversations to disavow that and to see
• 6:03
  it. Still, the way you're talking about it is very useful to see the mechanism of its, of how it
• 6:04
  maintains its existence and how we as consciousness give it all, all of it's, we allege to it in other
• 6:05
  So yes, you were asking me how does it change your life?
• 6:06
  How does it, yes, that's how it started.
• 6:07
  So I was just explaining the process of how it revolutionizes.
• 6:08
  Because if this mechanism that I'm speaking of isn't here
• 6:09
  because there's only the absolute now,
• 6:10
  the absolute presence, the absolute intimacy,
• 6:11
  then that completely changes how we operate, how we see,
• 6:12
  how we don't become more perfect.
• 6:13
  It simply means that we're not seeking fulfillment
• 6:14
  in the next moment.
• 6:15
  So what drives us isn't this undercurrent
• 6:16
  of restlessness of the separate self.
• 6:17
  Therefore there's nothing missing, there's nothing wrong,
• 6:18
  there's nothing to fulfill.
• 6:19
  And we live as peace.
• 6:20
  we live as openness. Surely if we bring that into all our activities, work activities,
• 6:21
  daily activities, relationships, that would change everything fundamentally. And it does.
• 6:22
  It does. Yeah, it does. The thing is when you describe it, you know, not when you say
• 6:23
  say in the, you know, that comes on down, there isn't any of that restless, selfing.
• 6:24
  And then there's just this absolute presence and absolute nounness to ears who are still
• 6:25
  locked in that restless mechanism.
• 6:26
  sounds unrealizable because it sounds like well how do you do anything? How does
• 6:27
  anything happen? So I think this is a myth busting, because that's why
• 6:28
  earlier on I said it may sound grandiose, it may sound high-forluting, but
• 6:29
  But actually in many ways it is because it is the end of something, some endless rolling
• 6:30
  mechanism that will haunt us until we die or dominate us until we die.
• 6:31
  On the other hand, what you're talking about is something extremely natural and innate.
• 6:32
  And actually because you live, you and I live a kind of natural existence.
• 6:33
  We're still caught, you know, we're still in a house having to buy food and do all the
• 6:34
  regular things.
• 6:35
  What it does is it brings a lightness to the light.
• 6:36
  Yeah, I just want to touch on the light again.
• 6:37
  We can bust the myth of enlightenment and awakening and it's a slight side issue, but
• 6:38
  this that we're speaking of, which is enlightenment, it is waking up out of the dream of the separate
• 6:39
  self.
• 6:40
  It is very ordinary.
• 6:41
  It is very immediate, direct.
• 6:42
  And yet for many, as we know, through our work that we do, it's also a gradual process.
• 6:43
  But let's talk about what happens through that gradual process or the complete unfoldment
• 6:44
  of true nature.
• 6:45
  Either way, where does it end up?
• 6:46
  doesn't end up in an enlightened personality sitting on top of the mountain or on the guru
• 6:47
  seat. It ends up in the ordinary life. Nothing changes in the ordinary. Nothing changes in
• 6:48
  the worldly dimension. Your life continues as it continues. But what does change is the
• 6:49
  way that you see things and the way that you are with things. As we said, you're no longer
• 6:50
  resisting and you're no longer rejecting and you're no longer looking for the next moment
• 6:51
  to fulfill or to be better or to bring peace. It's here now. So you live very naturally.
• 6:52
  What has that got to do with the light of being? It brings a lightness of being to your lived
• 6:53
  everyday experience, a lightness of being, a light touch. You're not grasping, you're
• 6:54
  not rejecting, you're not fighting, you're not opposing. It brings a flow, it brings
• 6:55
  an openness, it brings a peacefulness, even when unexpected events happen, even when all
• 6:56
  twists and turns of ordinary life take place. Of course they do, but the drama that was there
• 6:57
  prior to living as the light of being is no longer here. It's not a drama. It's not a trauma.
• 6:58
  It's not a poor me. It's not a victim situation. You're not a victim of life and you're not a victim
• 6:59
  of anything that you experience as an emotion, a feeling. In fact, emotions fade away.
• 7:00
  Emotions... Leaving what? Open. A feeling.
• 7:01
  A feeling. Well, we can feel. When I touch this table, I feel it. When I touch my skin, I feel it.
• 7:02
  When something touches my heart, I feel it.
• 7:03
  But emotion is something else.
• 7:04
  And emotion is drama.
• 7:05
  And emotion is suppressed energy.
• 7:06
  And emotion is something that bursts out.
• 7:07
  And emotion is something heavy that burdens you.
• 7:08
  I can say that emotions are not here.
• 7:09
  Yeah, I think you're right with you.
• 7:10
  It doesn't mean you become an unfeeling person
• 7:11
  or an uncaring person.
• 7:12
  On the contrary, everything is felt exquisitely, but there's no drama involved in that.
• 7:13
  I think for me that was on a personal level, I think that was the gradual path for me,
• 7:14
  was to see where despite living with you, despite lots of realisations and depth,
• 7:15
  still there was that grievance self, grievous self, a largely a victim of life that I carried
• 7:16
  all of the way, you know, even to where we are. And there was a, there was a, there was
• 7:17
  a seeing of the futility of that over time, which is the gradual path. And then the seeing
• 7:18
  of it's not a decision to make, but the seeing of it actually I could see the futility that
• 7:19
  it was just going, that was going to follow me to the grave. And so then I fell open, if you like,
• 7:20
  into the capacity to move in the world without taking it personally, not by denying it, but by
• 7:21
  becoming light.
• 7:22
  we become naked or divested of the structures of identity as successful, unsuccessful, lucky,
• 7:23
  unlucky, recognised, unrecognised, worthy, unworthy, all those polarities, all those
• 7:24
  opposite states, the unawakened consciousness lives in. We become empty of that, we become
• 7:25
  You've divested that.
• 7:26
  Transcendent the world's judgment or finding one's value in worldly things.
• 7:27
  You mean transcending finding value and everything.
• 7:28
  Yeah, I think that what you're talking about is that at a certain point you do transcend
• 7:29
  finding value because it's the self, the agitator self that is constantly trying to
• 7:30
  find itself because it feels incomplete.
• 7:31
  Yes, yes.
• 7:32
  In terms of the void.
• 7:33
  This is at the heart of your work.
• 7:34
  This is the heart of what we do with people.
• 7:35
  It is the end of that.
• 7:36
  It's the end of seeking.
• 7:37
  Seeking a better self.
• 7:38
  Seeking a worthy self.
• 7:39
  Seeking entrance into the kingdom of heaven that is already here.
• 7:40
  It doesn't mean that we stop deep inquiry, but it does mean the end of seeking on a horizontal
• 7:41
  level.
• 7:42
  So what do you say?
• 7:43
  Let's go into this spiritual, what do you say that the seeking of heaven...
• 7:44
  Seeking entrance to heaven.
• 7:45
  Seeking entrance to heaven through the validation of the Self is suddenly becoming worthy of
• 7:46
  God's love.
• 7:47
  Yeah, that opens the gates and there we are, which is rooted in a religious idea or an
• 7:48
  idea of the self or a belief of the self that the Kingdom of Heaven is not here, it's somewhere
• 7:49
  else and we have to prove our worth in order to reach it and most don't.
• 7:50
  And what you're saying is that the Kingdom of Heaven is within.
• 7:51
  It's right here.
• 7:52
  It's already here.
• 7:53
  That's the light of being.
• 7:54
  Yeah.
• 7:55
  Simply being.
• 7:56
  Being.
• 7:57
  Naked being doesn't require an external authority to validate it.
• 7:58
  See, that's the way it does become quite radical in a sense because it's the end of guilt,
• 7:59
  which is a pernicious state of humanity, of the human experience, I should say, that
• 8:00
  has crept up on so many people, unbeknownst that they're carrying guilt and shame is another
• 8:01
  one. And unworthiness is another one. And all of those conspire to create these victims
• 8:02
  of us, not just victims in society, because we haven't got much money, but actually victims
• 8:03
  of existence, where we feel that life is somehow opposed to us. And that's this is the end of
• 8:04
  that which is why it's so, I mean it moves me when I talk about it and we talk about it
• 8:05
  in those terms because that veil, that's one veil comprised of many veils. It's the sudden
• 8:06
  and the gradual. Absolutely. And it's like when that veil parts you're like, oh.
• 8:07
  But can you see now that speaking of the radiance of being or the light of
• 8:08
  being rather than focusing on the quality of being, actually looking at how when the veils
• 8:09
  have come undone, the veils of guilt, the veil of shame, the veil of unworthiness and all of this,
• 8:10
  as you say, it's one veil, it's the veil of self, but with many layers in it. As one,
• 8:11
  if you like breaks free, it's like break the sun breaking through the clouds of that.
• 8:12
  Yeah, not by perfecting the self or becoming a better self, but by actually seeing through the
• 8:13
  veils to the nature of reality, which doesn't require validation. As that happens,
• 8:14
  then naturally the heaviness, the tension, the anxiety, the distraction, the fear, the striving,
• 8:15
  the control, the, yeah, all of this, that is part of the unexamined human condition,
• 8:16
  falls away. Well, what remains as it comes through the human being, because we're still here in a
• 8:17
  body and in a human experience, a certain lightness, a certain radiance, tension comes and done,
• 8:18
  the face lightens, the body lightens, the whole human experience lightens. Surely that's the radiance.
• 8:19
  Yeah. So it has a very down to earth every day human impact ramifications.
• 8:20
  Yes. I mean, you know, my experience of you, which has been quite profound, I think, since I've
• 8:21
  spent 20 years with you, is that you actually carry that and you have carried that always
• 8:22
  a sort of innate joy or joy that is not caused by anything,
• 8:23
  it's not a cause and effect. It's just, for somebody who's a kind of enigmatic figure like you,
• 8:24
  there's something very simple about you.
• 8:25
  There's something very simple. You don't carry anything.
• 8:26
  Neither do I carry joy. It carries me. We're very clean, I think. That's what...
• 8:27
  - It carries me, it is.
• 8:28
  However, if I may go full circle
• 8:29
  to perhaps the beginning of this conversation
• 8:30
  where we attempted to examine what the light of being is,
• 8:31
  in order to come to this lived experience,
• 8:32
  experience that may speak to many because many are seeking this. There has to be an inner
• 8:33
  inquiry in the sense of a kind of inner contemplation or questioning as one goes through life,
• 8:34
  through the highs, through the lows, through the quiet periods, through the intense periods,
• 8:35
  whatever takes place. In meditation and not in meditation, what is it that remains when
• 8:36
  all experience passes? As this thought arises, it doesn't stay forever. The thought arises
• 8:37
  and then it's gone, has this feeling or emotion or whatever we want to call it, energy, the
• 8:38
  sensation, it is experienced and then it passes just as the clouds pass. What remains when that
• 8:39
  passes? This isn't a feat of mental acrobatics. It's actually very simple. It's an invitation
• 8:40
  to direct seeing. As this breath breathes itself, I may call it an in-breath and then
• 8:41
  out-breath and I may feel it as a sensation, I may feel it as the chest rising and falling.
• 8:42
  If you slow right down and be present with what is, you will notice that everything passes,
• 8:43
  Nothing is static.
• 8:44
  All experience, whether it's the perception of a colour, a shape, I can fixate on something.
• 8:45
  But if I allow my perceptual field to be open, everything passes.
• 8:46
  If I look away, this that was here is no longer here.
• 8:47
  So nothing is permanent.
• 8:48
  Yeah, and let's bring it into the energetic field that we experience.
• 8:49
  Thought-feeling emotion sensation.
• 8:50
  We can also look at events.
• 8:51
  We can look at circumstances.
• 8:52
  Each moment is not static.
• 8:53
  What remains when this seeming moment passes?
• 8:54
  What is always here?
• 8:55
  But he's always here, unless we truly ask ourselves, again, not as a mental exercise,
• 8:56
  but as a natural inquiry.
• 8:57
  We'll start to see that what remains is the simple fact of being.
• 8:58
  I am has always been here.
• 8:59
  I am doesn't go away because this happens or that happens.
• 9:00
  I am is present in all experiences, in all perceptions, in all sensations, in all feelings.
• 9:01
  That brings us into this that we're speaking of.
• 9:02
  So there has to be some desire, curiosity for that kind of inquiry.
• 9:03
  Now many people do it through meditation.
• 9:04
  use meditation as a way of forcing the mind to be still. But true meditation is simply
• 9:05
  seeing that everything passes this mood, this thought. And actually what remains when we stop
• 9:06
  trying to get rid of anything, to stop trying to fixate on anything is the absolute pristine,
• 9:07
  open naked stillness of, and then we put words on it, we can say awareness, we can say presence,
• 9:08
  we can say beingness, it's actually unnameable. This is the kingdom of heaven, and it's available
• 9:09
  to everyone. What's not available to everyone or seemingly out of reach is the curiosity
• 9:10
  to discover this, because they're addicted or entranced by the drama and trauma of what
• 9:11
  happens to me. We're entranced by the me. And I'm offering the possibility of seeing
• 9:12
  through that entranment to something that is so much more and completely the source of
• 9:13
  nourishment and love and peace that the me sometimes seeks. To miss it is a seeming tragedy,
• 9:14
  which is the only reason that we offer this work.
• 9:15
  Yeah, yeah.
• 9:16
  Yeah.
• 9:17
  Because it's been discovered and it's been known, and if it's been discovered by this
• 9:18
  ordinary person, then...
• 9:19
  Me too.
• 9:20
  And this ordinary person.
• 9:21
  Why would we keep this secret to us helps?
• 9:22
  It can't help itself.
• 9:23
  I remember in the first few years after this revelation, when I didn't speak about it
• 9:24
  for many years because I didn't want to grasp it or make a thing out of it or create another
• 9:25
  identity out of it. I want out of curiosity. I wanted to see what actually changed in life,
• 9:26
  not in terms of circumstances, but in my direct experience, what changed and it did fundamentally
• 9:27
  change. But I do remember there was a time at some point where it was like, wow, there's
• 9:28
  nothing else but this that wants to meet this in another and it took many years but eventually
• 9:29
  this meeting took place through the attempt to speak from it in small groups, in gathering
• 9:30
  small or large, it didn't matter. But that wasn't an attempt to create a teaching or
• 9:31
  to, but actually it was from the inside out. There was nothing else to do, there was nothing
• 9:32
  else, it can't help itself. So that's the invitation.
• 9:33
  I think that's very succinctly and beautifully put.
• 9:34
  And yeah, I don't think there's anywhere to go with that.
• 9:35
  I think that...
• 9:36
  I'd like to just do a shameless pitch for the book that you're going to have coming up,
• 9:37
  not yet, but soon, with publication through our own publishing house called "Nadam Publishing."
• 9:38
  publications. And the book is called Unveiling the Light of Being.
• 9:39
  Indeed it is. It's based on many discourses that were given mostly at a retreat last year
• 9:40
  and some other online events as well, some meditations and so on and some of the questions
• 9:41
  that came from that. So it's really based on that and it didn't start out with any particular
• 9:42
  theme, it just sort of wove itself. But the theme that arose from it was really this,
• 9:43
  the unveiling of the light of being. In other words, the discovery of true nature.
• 9:44
  And so this, the book goes relatively deeply into that. And so we expected to be published in the
• 9:45
  the next few months by the end of this year?
• 9:46
  Well, I've, yeah, I'm in I've read it. And it's got the fragrance, the not only speaking
• 9:47
  to it in a way that articulates it, but it's also got the fragrance and essence of the vibration
• 9:48
  of what's being shared. And I think that's kind of what comes through. And that's certainly
• 9:49
  he for instance, what comes through at the retreats.
• 9:50
  And he's maybe coming through more and more
• 9:51
  at the moment as we do these things.
• 9:52
  So okay, thank you so much, Amoda.
• 9:53
  I think we're gonna close up.
• 9:54
  I hope the recording's good.
• 9:55
  Amoda's gonna be, if we release this conversation soon enough,
• 9:56
  which I hope to do Amoda will be in Europe,
• 9:57
  plenty of your dates in Europe.
• 9:58
  - I mean, Europe.
• 9:59
  Amsterdam on October the 18th for an afternoon meeting. It's pretty much sold out. There is
• 10:00
  a waiting list just in case some people can't make it last minute. And Germany.
• 10:01
  A few days later. On the 20th, yes. Okay. Okay.
• 10:02
  all on our website. So that'll be in a modus first and I'm not going a trip to Europe and
• 10:03
  next year of course we're going to be doing a retreat in Europe so look out for that and
• 10:04
  come and see us and come and be with us it will be beautiful to see you. As it is we
• 10:05
  have another retreat in the art of living in North Carolina in January and we're very
• 10:06
  much looking forward to that. I must just say for 10 seconds, the retreats are exquisite
• 10:07
  at the moment, not just because of us, but because of the people who come and speak with each other
• 10:08
  and the growing field of love that is happening. It's another story, but whoa, it's very beautiful.
• 10:09
  This is all in a way a reflection of the light of being that is around very much, I think.
• 10:10
  Okay friends, thank you so much. Namaste, I forgot to mention we've got a little pup here
• 10:11
  who you can't see. There's our little Peyote, but that's another story,
• 10:12
  domestic life. Many blessings to you. Thank you so much, Amoda. Namaste.
• 10:13
  Namaste.
• 10:14
  Beautiful. Bye-bye.