Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #579 Get Another Room

Transcript

#579 Get Another Room · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
0:05
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
0:09
Speaker 2: wants answers.
0:10
Speaker 3: Now.
0:10
Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson. I'm so excited for
0:12
Speaker 2: this conversation today on the Happy Families Podcast. A couple
0:16
Speaker 2: of weeks ago, I jumped onto Facebook and shared this
0:19
Speaker 2: idea of a sleep divorce. Now the name doesn't sound
0:22
Speaker 2: very nice in some ways, because as soon as you
0:23
Speaker 2: mentioned divorce, people start to worry. But the Facebook feed
0:27
Speaker 2: just went absolutely nuts. People jumped online and started to
0:30
Speaker 2: say all kinds of things about having a sleep divorce
0:32
Speaker 2: and the benefits of it. If you haven't heard of
0:34
Speaker 2: a sleep divorce, well, actually I'm going to let my
0:36
Speaker 2: guests explain what it is. Let's just say there are
0:38
Speaker 2: a whole lot of people who are out there who
0:40
Speaker 2: love the idea, and there was so much online activity
0:44
Speaker 2: around this that I thought I need to talk to
0:46
Speaker 2: somebody who was an expert in sleep divorce or in
0:50
Speaker 2: sleep for couples when you're sharing a bed and everything
0:53
Speaker 2: associated with that. So today we're going to have a
0:56
Speaker 2: conversation with doctor Wendy Troxal. Doctor Troxel is senior behavioral
1:01
Speaker 2: scientist at the RAND corporation and adjunct faculty at both
1:04
Speaker 2: the Universities of Pittsburgh and Utah, licensed clinical psychologists, certified
1:09
Speaker 2: behavioral sleep medicine specialist, more than fifteen pably well several
1:13
Speaker 2: more than that are now years of clinical and research
1:15
Speaker 2: experience in sleep medicine. I could go on. The bio
1:18
Speaker 2: is impressive. But Wendy's written this great book called Sharing
1:20
Speaker 2: The covers Every Couple's Guide to Better Sleep, and I
1:24
Speaker 2: wish that I'd found this book when I first got married.
1:27
Speaker 2: So my wife Kylie and I when we started sharing
1:30
Speaker 2: a bed, we couldn't sleep, We couldn't touch each other.
1:33
Speaker 2: We found that as soon as we touched each other
1:35
Speaker 2: there was all of this well I'm going to use
1:37
Speaker 2: the word stimulation, but not necessarily in the way that
1:39
Speaker 2: people might think, and we just couldn't get any sleep. Wendy,
1:43
Speaker 2: thanks for joining me on The Happy Family's podcast. Is
1:44
Speaker 2: this a common thing that people struggle to sleep in
1:47
Speaker 2: a bed together?
1:48
Speaker 3: Well, thanks so much for having me.
1:49
Speaker 1: It's a real pleasure, And yes, it is sort of
1:52
Speaker 1: surprisingly common and yet so thoroughly discussed and under understood,
2:00
Speaker 1: which is one of the major reasons why I wanted
2:03
Speaker 1: to write the book compiling all of what is known
2:06
Speaker 1: from a scientific basis and also the clinical evidence concerning
2:11
Speaker 1: both the pros and cons of sleeping together or apart,
2:16
Speaker 1: and giving couples real strategies and solutions to find out
2:20
Speaker 1: what's going to work best for them in the bedroom
2:23
Speaker 1: when it comes to sleep, not just sex.
2:26
Speaker 2: I think this is fascinating. Until recently, I'd never heard
2:28
Speaker 2: of this idea of a sleep divorce. Certainly had never
2:31
Speaker 2: contemplated it at all. It was just a given that
2:35
Speaker 2: my wife and I were going to sleep in the
2:37
Speaker 2: same bed together, and we do, and we've talked about it,
2:39
Speaker 2: and I don't get to that shortly. But since this
2:41
Speaker 2: conversation on Facebook a few weeks ago, I keep meeting
2:44
Speaker 2: people who tell me that they are in committed relationships
2:48
Speaker 2: but they sleep in separate beds, and they often sleep
2:50
Speaker 2: in separate rooms as well, and obviously discover the informal
2:53
Speaker 2: term getting a sleep divorce. Just tell me a bit
2:56
Speaker 2: more about the whole idea of a sleep divorce. Why
2:58
Speaker 2: do people have sleep divorce?
3:01
Speaker 1: So there's lots of reasons for this particular sleeping arrangement
3:06
Speaker 1: which has been given by the media. This catchy the
3:09
Speaker 1: really judge term of sleep divorce, which I try to
3:13
Speaker 1: avoid as much as possible, because, as you said, in
3:16
Speaker 1: no shape or form is it ever sort of okay
3:19
Speaker 1: and benign to talk about the word divorce when in
3:23
Speaker 1: the context of your relationship it has all of these
3:25
Speaker 1: negative connotations. So I do try to, you know, avoid
3:28
Speaker 1: using that, as catchy as it is. But again, it
3:31
Speaker 1: refers to the myriad of reasons why couples may choose
3:36
Speaker 1: to sleep apart. Now, those reasons may include children that
3:41
Speaker 1: like to weasel their way in between the two of you,
3:43
Speaker 1: making you know, three as a crowd, and making sleep
3:46
Speaker 1: really challenging for.
3:47
Speaker 3: All of you.
3:48
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a sleep disorder in one or both partners,
3:51
Speaker 1: or maybe one partner snores that's a big culprit, or
3:55
Speaker 1: maybe it's something sort of more mundane, like you know,
3:59
Speaker 1: someone you know tosses and turns, or one likes it
4:02
Speaker 1: really hot at night, one likes it cold, or one's
4:05
Speaker 1: just a really light sleeper, or maybe you have different
4:08
Speaker 1: work schedules, or maybe I know about you.
4:10
Speaker 3: You're a cyclist, so you're.
4:11
Speaker 1: Waking up at the crack of dawn to head out
4:14
Speaker 1: and go for your ride, which might not exactly map
4:17
Speaker 1: on to your wife's preferred sleep schedule. So for lots
4:21
Speaker 1: of reasons, couples may come to I hope the decision,
4:25
Speaker 1: though often it's not a decision per se.
4:28
Speaker 3: It's more of a reaction, and we can get to that.
4:31
Speaker 1: But you know, really it comes down to if one
4:34
Speaker 1: or both partners are not sleeping well, they may arrive
4:39
Speaker 1: at this arrangement of sleeping apart. Now how they arrive
4:43
Speaker 1: at that arrangement is really the most critical thing. As
4:46
Speaker 1: I said, If it's an active decision based on a
4:50
Speaker 1: healthy and open and honest conversation between partners, that could
4:54
Speaker 1: have no ill effects. In fact, you can have benefits
4:56
Speaker 1: for a relationship, particularly if both partners are going to
4:59
Speaker 1: sleep better. On the other hand, if it ends up
5:02
Speaker 1: being a reactive strategy really where one partner just marches
5:08
Speaker 1: out of the bedroom in complete frustration because he or
5:11
Speaker 1: she is not sleeping because maybe her partner is snoring
5:14
Speaker 1: so loudly, and there's really never a discussion about, you know,
5:19
Speaker 1: maybe we should try this because you know, I'm not
5:22
Speaker 1: sleeping well and when I don't sleep well, I can't
5:25
Speaker 1: be as good a partner to you. That's kind of
5:27
Speaker 1: the healthy conversation have. But if that doesn't happen, if
5:30
Speaker 1: it's just sort of reactive and angry, that's when sort
5:34
Speaker 1: of resentment and a sense of abandonment might occur. And
5:38
Speaker 1: again that's one of the reasons why in my book,
5:41
Speaker 1: I help couples start having these conversations about this critical.
5:46
Speaker 3: Third of our lives.
5:47
Speaker 1: We really do spend about of our third a third
5:50
Speaker 1: of our lives asleep, and so that's a major part
5:53
Speaker 1: of our coupled existence, so we ought to have some
5:56
Speaker 1: real conversation about it.
5:58
Speaker 2: It's one of those strange things, isn't it. When do
5:59
Speaker 2: we take it for granted? We all know that we
6:02
Speaker 2: sleep approximately eight hours of the twenty four so that's
6:04
Speaker 2: a third. But when you're reminded of it and put
6:06
Speaker 2: it front the center, it becomes a really important part
6:09
Speaker 2: of our lives. I know, and you mentioned my cycling.
6:12
Speaker 2: I'm so sensitive to the fact that when my alarm
6:14
Speaker 2: goes off at four fifteen or four twenty in the morning,
6:17
Speaker 2: there's this person that I'm crazy about right beside me
6:20
Speaker 2: who's being disturbed by it. And sometimes I'll get home
6:23
Speaker 2: a couple of hours later and Kylie will be awaken,
6:26
Speaker 2: will have been awake since, and I feel so bad.
6:28
Speaker 2: We'll talk about my conversation with Kylie about a sleep
6:31
Speaker 2: divorce shortly. What I'd like to know now, though, is
6:34
Speaker 2: you've written You've written a book about this, I mean
6:36
Speaker 2: about how we can sleep well as a couple sharing
6:39
Speaker 2: the covers, and when you wrote the book, what science
6:42
Speaker 2: did you find that would support a sleep divorce.
6:47
Speaker 1: So some of the research I discuss concerns the impact
6:50
Speaker 1: of sleep loss on relationship functioning. So we know from
6:55
Speaker 1: my work and others that you know, when we're not
6:58
Speaker 1: getting the sleep we need, our communications skills suffer. We're
7:02
Speaker 1: more prone to mental health problems like depression and anxiety,
7:07
Speaker 1: which you're going to have a negative impact on relationships.
7:10
Speaker 1: We're more prone to conflict. Our frustration tolerance is lowered,
7:14
Speaker 1: so we're more likely to snap at our partner. Interestingly,
7:18
Speaker 1: we also have less empathic accuracy, which is the ability
7:21
Speaker 1: to read and understand your partner's emotions, which, as you know,
7:26
Speaker 1: is absolutely critical in the context of a relationship. So
7:30
Speaker 1: how you sleep can actually impact the quality of your relationships.
7:34
Speaker 1: I also cover the research on sleep and sex. There's
7:38
Speaker 1: a lot of sort of mythology out there about how
7:42
Speaker 1: sex is good for sleep. I can tell you actually
7:45
Speaker 1: that the research in terms of that direction is equivocal.
7:49
Speaker 3: We don't know for sure.
7:51
Speaker 1: It's probably that for some people sex is good for sleep,
7:53
Speaker 1: for others it's too stimulating, and like you said, not
7:57
Speaker 1: stimulating in the good way, just meaning that it keeps
8:00
Speaker 1: you awake at night rather than helping you do unwind.
8:03
Speaker 1: So while that research is somewhat next, what we do
8:06
Speaker 1: absolutely know is that sleep is good for sex. So
8:11
Speaker 1: when you're sleeping well, sexual frequency increases, as well as
8:16
Speaker 1: sexual desire, particularly for women. So yet another reason from
8:21
Speaker 1: a scientific basis of why it's so important for couples
8:25
Speaker 1: to start considering the role of sleep in the life of.
8:29
Speaker 3: The relationship, and yet it's so often neglected.
8:32
Speaker 2: Wendy, what I'm hearing in this conversation is that you're
8:36
Speaker 2: not so much advocating for a quote unquote sleep divorce,
8:39
Speaker 2: that unfortunate term. What you're advocating for is couples working
8:43
Speaker 2: out how they're going to sleep best because it's going
8:45
Speaker 2: to be good for their relationship. And I really, I
8:47
Speaker 2: really love the way that you're setting that up. After
8:49
Speaker 2: the break, we're going to have a quick chat about
8:51
Speaker 2: any disadvantages to setting up your sleeping arrangements like this,
8:55
Speaker 2: And I'm going to share a couple of things that
8:57
Speaker 2: people have said as they jumped onto Facebook that made
9:00
Speaker 2: me think that maybe this is something worth considering. If
9:07
Speaker 2: you've got a teen, you're likely already worried about alcohol
9:10
Speaker 2: and drug use. As a parent, you want to know
9:13
Speaker 2: how do we protect them, how do we teach them?
9:15
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9:18
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9:21
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9:24
Speaker 2: adolescent issues today. Available on the Happy Families webshop. It's
9:29
Speaker 2: the Happy Famili's podcast, the podcast for the typop parent
9:31
Speaker 2: who just wants answers Now Today. My guest on the
9:34
Speaker 2: podcast is doctor Wendy Troxel. Wendy is the author of
9:38
Speaker 2: Sharing the Covers, Every Couple's Guide to Better Sleep. Really
9:42
Speaker 2: fascinated by this discussion we're having around the idea of
9:45
Speaker 2: having a quote unquote sleep divorce, Wendy want to put
9:48
Speaker 2: the question to people on Facebook. I mean I had
9:51
Speaker 2: two or three conversations in a day or two with
9:53
Speaker 2: people who said, yeah, this is what I do. I
9:54
Speaker 2: don't sleep in the same bedroom as my husband and
9:56
Speaker 2: my wife, my partner. We sleep in different rooms, different beds,
9:59
Speaker 2: and it's the best thing we've ever done. And when
10:01
Speaker 2: I think about a close relationship, I just imagine that
10:03
Speaker 2: everybody always sleeps in the same bed, and I just well,
10:07
Speaker 2: I'm even struggling for the words right now. I didn't
10:09
Speaker 2: know how to respond, so I threw it on Facebook.
10:11
Speaker 2: And here's what some people said. Let me read this
10:13
Speaker 2: one to you. The best thing we've done. We sleep better,
10:15
Speaker 2: We actually rest, We get up in a good mood
10:17
Speaker 2: and keep our identities separated in different rooms and get
10:19
Speaker 2: along well, love it. We get used to sleeping alone
10:22
Speaker 2: while we're growing up. Then when we marry we're supposed
10:25
Speaker 2: to sleep together and change our routine and get used
10:26
Speaker 2: to it. Just like that. It doesn't always work that way,
10:29
Speaker 2: and it's fine. Don't let society dictate your life. One
10:32
Speaker 2: mum jumped on and said I would love to sleep
10:35
Speaker 2: divorce my kids. Another one said, absolutely, best thing we do.
10:42
Speaker 2: Doing this does not have a negative impact on our intimacy.
10:44
Speaker 2: Intimacy and sex isn't just for the bed or for
10:46
Speaker 2: the bedroom. When the communication, affection, support, empathy, and love
10:50
Speaker 2: is strong in the relationship. It doesn't matter what bed
10:52
Speaker 2: you're sleep in or if the children room bed with you,
10:54
Speaker 2: because intimacy can be given and received in so many
10:56
Speaker 2: forms and places, and sex can be fun and fabulous anywhere.
10:58
Speaker 2: So we need to talk about the intimate question. In
11:00
Speaker 2: just a sick to other quick comments, one person said,
11:02
Speaker 2: I give it one hundred and out of ten, one
11:04
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty percent would recommend it will save your marriage,
11:07
Speaker 2: not joking. And one last person said, done it?
11:10
Speaker 3: Do it?
11:10
Speaker 2: In fact? Rate it so highly. So the overwhelming response
11:15
Speaker 2: from people was this is great. But the overwhelming question
11:17
Speaker 2: that came through was what about intimacy? How do you
11:20
Speaker 2: navigate that? Especially if there are kids in the house
11:22
Speaker 2: and they're watching you go to one room and then
11:24
Speaker 2: it's so like musical beds. How do you navigate that
11:27
Speaker 2: as a couple.
11:28
Speaker 1: So that's sort of the single biggest concern, And as
11:32
Speaker 1: you know an expert who studies is sleep in the
11:35
Speaker 1: context of relationships, That's the one question I'm asked most
11:38
Speaker 1: frequently of all that, like if I sleep apart, you know,
11:41
Speaker 1: does it mean like the end of our sex life?
11:44
Speaker 1: And the answer is absolutely not. Many couples who choose
11:49
Speaker 1: to sleep apart actually find that it enhances their sex
11:52
Speaker 1: life because, by the way, one of the primary sort
11:55
Speaker 1: of reasons given for not having sex is the old
11:58
Speaker 1: I'm too tired for sex, So by getting good sleep
12:02
Speaker 1: you might actually be more inclined to have sex and
12:06
Speaker 1: enjoy it more so. In the idea also that sex
12:11
Speaker 1: only occurs at night and in bed, one of your
12:15
Speaker 1: one of the comments from Facebook actually alluded to this
12:18
Speaker 1: beautifully is I mean, the idea that.
12:21
Speaker 3: Sex has to occur at night and in bed and is.
12:25
Speaker 1: Always spontaneous is really sort of an overrated idea and
12:30
Speaker 1: not really characteristic of most long term relationships, particularly when
12:35
Speaker 1: kids enter the picture. Right Like, sex can and often
12:38
Speaker 1: needs to be planned so you're not both exhausted, so
12:41
Speaker 1: you know, the kids are out of the room, so
12:44
Speaker 1: that you can actually have some reasonable enjoyment and have desire.
12:48
Speaker 3: For sexual activity. And so couples who choose to.
12:51
Speaker 1: Sleep apart find lots of strategies to maintain intimacy, including
12:56
Speaker 1: you know, finding times during the daytime or before eithertner
13:00
Speaker 1: goes to sleep, and then they go to their separate
13:02
Speaker 1: bedrooms or maybe it's in the morning, which again based
13:05
Speaker 1: on our circadian preferences, which is that some of us
13:10
Speaker 1: are more mourning type people, some of us are evening
13:13
Speaker 1: type people. Those circadian preferences not only dictate or help
13:18
Speaker 1: to govern our sleep wake schedules, but they also govern
13:21
Speaker 1: other activities, including our enjoyment for sex. Though so for
13:25
Speaker 1: some couples it may be that other times of day
13:28
Speaker 1: that may be scheduled might be a better time for
13:32
Speaker 1: sex anyway, So there are certainly ways to maintain intimacy
13:36
Speaker 1: even if couples choose.
13:37
Speaker 3: To sleep apart.
13:39
Speaker 1: And the other thing I want to mention, even your
13:41
Speaker 1: reaction to this, that it was sort of breathtaking to
13:45
Speaker 1: you the idea that some couples could say this strategy.
13:49
Speaker 3: Really works for the relationship because it's so.
13:52
Speaker 1: Ingrained for so many that there is one way for
13:56
Speaker 1: couples to sleep, and that is together in the marital
13:59
Speaker 1: bed is sake. And I'm actually somebody who does believe
14:02
Speaker 1: in the sacredness of sharing time together in bed.
14:06
Speaker 3: But the idea that there's.
14:08
Speaker 1: Only one way to sleep together is a totally socially
14:13
Speaker 1: prescribed phenomenon, and it's actually very tremendously across history and
14:20
Speaker 1: across cultures, and so we have this rigid sort of hold.
14:24
Speaker 3: On the marital bed.
14:26
Speaker 1: And again it's societally prescribed. And my message to couples,
14:31
Speaker 1: I'm not prescribing anything to any couples for such an
14:35
Speaker 1: intimate behavior. I'm saying, prioritize sleep for the health of
14:39
Speaker 1: your relationship. How you do that is really going to
14:43
Speaker 1: vary based on your own couple, individual needs, preferences, and values.
14:49
Speaker 1: But do have a conversation about it with your partner,
14:52
Speaker 1: and do try to do everything you can to ensure
14:55
Speaker 1: that both you and your partner are getting the sleep
14:58
Speaker 1: you need to be the best partner.
15:00
Speaker 2: You can be. Wendy, the more that I've spoken with
15:03
Speaker 2: people and I reckon, I've probably bumped into half a
15:04
Speaker 2: dozen people who have told me that this is what
15:07
Speaker 2: they do now. They sleep in separate rooms, even though
15:09
Speaker 2: they're in wonderfully happy relationships. It still seems like such
15:13
Speaker 2: an uncommon concept. I raised it with Kylie and said, Honey,
15:17
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm having all these conversations with people.
15:20
Speaker 2: Are you sleeping okay? Am I sleeping okay? Are you
15:22
Speaker 2: happy with our sleeping arrangement? Should we consider anything else.
15:26
Speaker 2: Kylie very much wanted to share the bed with me,
15:28
Speaker 2: and I felt the same way. My question to you, though,
15:31
Speaker 2: is what happens when one person actually thinks I need this.
15:34
Speaker 2: I've got a partner who's snoring, or I've got a
15:36
Speaker 2: partner who's doing shift work, or the kids are just
15:37
Speaker 2: driving us crazy and we are not getting to sleep,
15:39
Speaker 2: and I'm not functioning well. Nothing is going right for
15:42
Speaker 2: me when it comes to sleep. How do they navigate
15:45
Speaker 2: that when one partner is adamant that know, if we're married,
15:48
Speaker 2: or if when this relationship we show our commitment by
15:50
Speaker 2: sleeping together and the other partner's going but I'm quietly
15:53
Speaker 2: dying of exhaustion over here exactly now.
15:56
Speaker 1: I see this quite a bit, and often couples who
15:58
Speaker 1: come to me in my clinic work, we have to
16:01
Speaker 1: negotiate these kind of issues where one partner.
16:05
Speaker 3: Is sleeping well.
16:06
Speaker 1: And you know, really benefits from sharing a bed, and
16:09
Speaker 1: I don't want to at all underestimate that for many
16:12
Speaker 1: people there are huge benefits of sharing a bed. The
16:16
Speaker 1: psychological sense of safety and security that you get from
16:20
Speaker 1: being close to a loved one at night.
16:22
Speaker 3: That's really important. The issue is that.
16:26
Speaker 1: On the other hand, if one partner is just for
16:28
Speaker 1: whatever reason, not sleeping, well, how do you come to
16:32
Speaker 1: grips and find a place of compromise for that? And
16:34
Speaker 1: I often work with couples on that, and sometimes it
16:37
Speaker 1: comes down to experimenting with different strategies so that both
16:42
Speaker 1: needs are met. And again, this is what we do
16:45
Speaker 1: in all sorts of relationship therapy. We're just now focusing
16:48
Speaker 1: on the third of the day that we neglect, which
16:50
Speaker 1: is sleep. But negotiation and compromise is a part of
16:54
Speaker 1: all relationships. So for instance, it might be that the
16:57
Speaker 1: person who feels like I could never sleep apart from
17:01
Speaker 1: my partner, because that really means something like, you know,
17:05
Speaker 1: our shared time and debt is a cornerstone of our relationship.
17:08
Speaker 1: It's really hard for that person to even fathom the
17:11
Speaker 1: idea of sleeping apart. So I might suggest to them.
17:14
Speaker 1: But the other person is, as you said, just struggling,
17:17
Speaker 1: starving for sleep and really suffering, and that we know
17:21
Speaker 1: could have a negative impact not only on the individual,
17:24
Speaker 1: but also on the relationship. So I might suggest to
17:27
Speaker 1: that couple. You know, well, first of all, let's find
17:29
Speaker 1: out what's going on with the partner. Who's not sleeping well.
17:32
Speaker 1: Do they have a sleep disorder which needs to be treated.
17:35
Speaker 1: We'll work on that absolutely, because an undiagnosed sleep disorder
17:39
Speaker 1: can have other ramifications beyond the relationship, and often that's
17:43
Speaker 1: true when it comes to snoring. I always say, if
17:47
Speaker 1: snoring is causing a rift in your sleeping arrangements, first
17:50
Speaker 1: determined if that's a sign of another sleep disorder, such
17:54
Speaker 1: as sleep apnea, which really needs to be treated, or
17:56
Speaker 1: maybe it's insomnia, which is also a clinical disorder which
18:00
Speaker 1: has significant consequences both for the relationship and beyond. So
18:04
Speaker 1: make sure that's being treated. But beyond that, one partner
18:08
Speaker 1: is still just really struggling while sharing a bed. Maybe
18:11
Speaker 1: what you do is experiment with the idea of try
18:15
Speaker 1: this sleeping apart, maybe just on the weekend initially, or
18:19
Speaker 1: maybe it's actually one day during the week. Let's say
18:22
Speaker 1: one partner has a really big work day the next
18:25
Speaker 1: day and needs to get a good night of sleep
18:28
Speaker 1: and isn't sleeping well. So maybe you try a night
18:31
Speaker 1: or two during the work week when the stakes are
18:33
Speaker 1: really high, try to sleeping apart, but then have a
18:37
Speaker 1: reunion either on the weekend or on the subsequent nights.
18:41
Speaker 1: These kind of like short term experiments within a couple
18:45
Speaker 1: allows them to test out the validity of these very
18:49
Speaker 1: strongly held beliefs.
18:51
Speaker 2: It's been a fascinating conversation. Really really enjoyed it. Doctor
18:54
Speaker 2: Wendy Truxel is the author of Sharing the Covers Every
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Speaker 2: Couple's God to Be to Sleep. We will link to
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Speaker 2: that in the show notes. Wendy, if people want more
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Speaker 2: information about the work that you do, the book that
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Speaker 2: you've written, or anything else related to this, where should
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Speaker 2: they go for more resources?
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Speaker 1: Well, thanks so much for the opportunity to speak with
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Speaker 1: you today. It's been a delight. Yes, my book I
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Speaker 1: encourage you to take a look at it and covers
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Speaker 1: many more topics beyond sleep, divorce, all of the issues
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Speaker 1: that come up when it comes to couples and sleep
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Speaker 1: and how to get better sleep together or apart. I
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Speaker 1: also have a website, Wendy Truxel dot com. You can
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Speaker 1: find me on Instagram. Sharing the Covers is my Instagram handle,
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Speaker 1: Wendy Truxel is my Twitter handle, and you can see
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Speaker 1: lots of media interviews with me and that pop up
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Speaker 1: every now and then, pretty much anytime there's a discussion
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Speaker 1: of couples in sleep.
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Speaker 2: It's a great title for the book. Thank you again
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Speaker 2: for your time.
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Speaker 3: Wendy, it's been a pleasure. Thanks so much.
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Speaker 2: It's doctor Wendy Truxel, author of Sharing the Covers. Great
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Speaker 2: title for a great book, for a fantastic conversation and topic.
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Speaker 2: The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from
19:57
Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and if
20:00
Speaker 2: you'd like morronfo about making your family happier, visit happy
20:02
Speaker 2: families dot com. Dora you