Latest / The BSB Podcast / Exclusive Interview: Ed Perkins, Director of 'Clown Panic'

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Exclusive Interview: Ed Perkins, Director of 'Clown Panic' · The BSB Podcast

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  Clowns have long been a staple of entertainment,
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  Clowns have long been a staple of entertainment,
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  but for many they're also become a source of genuine fear.
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  but for many they're also become a source of genuine fear.
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  In Clown Panic, director Ed Perkins explores the strange
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  In Clown Panic, director Ed Perkins explores the strange
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  and unsettling history behind the killer clown phenomenon and
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  and unsettling history behind the killer clown phenomenon why these painted faces
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  why these painted faces continue to fascinate and frighten audiences.
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  continue to fascinate and frighten audiences.
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  Thank you so much for being here,
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  Thank you so much for being here,
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  Ed.
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  Ed. Thank you so much for having me.
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  I really appreciate it. I just had the chance to watch this,
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  I just had the chance to watch this,
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  and I do have to say, as somebody who is afraid of clowns,
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  and I do have to say, as somebody who is afraid of clowns,
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  this was a good tough watch, I should say.
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  this was a good tough watch, I should say.
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  This was a really interesting
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  This was a really interesting.
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  ~ documentary to kind of explore.
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  documentary to kind of explore.
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  What initially drew you to the story behind Clown Panic?
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  What initially drew you to the story behind Clown Panic and what did you know
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  And what did you know it was a story you wanted to turn into a documentary?
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  it was a story you wanted to turn into a documentary?
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  Well I'm sorry you had to sit through it if you have a kind of a a
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  a long standing fear of clowns.
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  ~ it certainly
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  Ha ha ha.
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  won't fear it won't it won't s you know cure that fear.
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  ~ so a little bit.
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  It helped a little bit.
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  Did it? Well that's good to hear.
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  ~ so yeah, I mean look, I if I'm totally honest,
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  when I first heard about this story of the the kind of crazy clown pandemic
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  of twenty sixteen, I I did slightly dismiss it.
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  You know, I I I kind of viewed it as a kind of flash in the pan social media story
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  that that you know had very little to say about modern America and and
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  and was just a kind of a social meme that blew up and then would disin
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  dis disappear straight away. But you know,
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  I've been on this film for two years now,
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  and I think the really
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  fascinating thing for me has been that,
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  you know, I profoundly believe that like beneath all the levels of weird kind
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  of clown absurdity, there is actually something really important that this story
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  says about contemporary America,
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  you know. ~ and that's I think in large part because,
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  you know, behind every viral video or or kind of sensationalist headline about what
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  was happening back in 2016 with the clowns,
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  you know, was often someone who would who'd who'd really experienced something that
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  really scared them, you know, profoundly scared them.
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  You know, and so
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  The question for me when making this film was it was actually less about like
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  whether the clowns were real or who was behind the mask.
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  You know not that those are uninteresting,
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  but the the real question for me was around fear,
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  you know. The th what was the fear that that was inspired by these clowns?
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  What did that fear do to us? What did it represent?
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  What does that fear tell us about the communities in which it spread at
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  the time and and I think tell us about modern America today?
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  Absolutely. It was interesting because as I was watching the documentary,
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  It was interesting 'cause as I was watching the documentary,
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  you even brought up some cities that are like smack dab right by me.
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  you even brought up some cities that are like smack dab right by me.
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  So I remember this, like Clinton Township.
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  So I remember this, like Clinton Township.
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  I'm literally five minutes from there.
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  I'm literally five minutes from there.
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  ~ and when I brought it up to my mom,
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  Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ~ and when I brought it up to my mom I was like,
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  I was like, Do you remember the killer clowns phenomenon of two thousand sixteen?
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  Do remember the Hillary Cowns phenomenon of twenty sixteen?
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  And she was like, No, what are you talking about?
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  And she was like, No, what are you talking about?
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  And then when I kind of explained it,
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  And then when I kind of explained it,
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  she was like, I must have blocked that out because she goes,
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  she was like, I must have blocked that out because
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  That's
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  Because that's too that's too scary and too ridiculous to think about colorway.
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  too that's too scary and too ridiculous to think about in a way.
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  So it's interesting that you're talking about how that affected people.
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  That's interesting that you're talking about how that affected
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  people. Well I look, I often I I do actually think that if if the killer clowns
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  had never taken over America in twenty sixteen,
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  ~ we we just wouldn't believe that a story like this could possibly ever happen.
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  It just sounds so fanciful, so absurd,
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  you know. And th that there were literally hundreds and hundreds
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  and hundreds of clown sightings all over America.
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  You know, the story started in a small town in South Carolina with
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  with reports of of of kids seeing clowns in in in woods.
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  But it it like within weeks it escalated,
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  it escalated into this like full blown kind of viral nightmare,
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  you know, with with clowns threatening to shoot up schools and
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  the FBI got involved and clowns were robbing banks and,
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  you know, it was it was a full blown panic,
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  you know, a moral panic, you know,
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  and and
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  I hope our film sort of explores that collision of fear and social media
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  and and modern America at a time where,
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  you know, society was at a a state of kind of of of heightened anguish.
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  ~ and yeah, this really happened.
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  You know, in that kind of sensational element of the story,
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  You know, in that kind of sensational element of the story,
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  with also kind of the deeper story you want to tell,
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  but also kind of the deeper story you want to tell,
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  how do you kind of strike balance as like as like a director,
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  how do you kind of strike balance as like as like a director,
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  as you're kind of pulling in the information as you're exploring,
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  as you're kinda pulling in the information as you're exploring,
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  how do you kind of determine when to lean into the sensational element
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  how do you kind of determine when to lean into the sensational element
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  of it and when to just, you know,
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  of it and when to just, you know,
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  focus on the deeper story?
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  focus on the deeper story? I think it's a really
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  good question because ~ you this story has a lot of tonal shifts and
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  ~ the most important thing for me is that I hope that by the end of
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  the film people understand that this is a cautionary tale and that we end
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  at a place that is
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  Very, very serious, gravely serious.
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  ~ but I wanted audiences to be taken on the same kind of emotional journey that that
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  we were all taken on for real back in 2016.
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  And that was a a journey that often started with kind of curiosity.
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  You know, when we first heard about the clowns,
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  we saw it on our phones or on our YouTube ~ you know,
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  pages. A lot of us thought, what the hell is going on here?
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  Like this is bizarre and weird and unbelievable,
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  but kind of funny.
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  And we a lot of us like to be scared,
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  you know. We like the adrenaline rush we get when we're a little bit scared.
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  But I think that curiosity, you know,
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  as more and more clown sightings started to happen,
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  and as America became kind of transfixed by this phenomenon,
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  that curiosity transforms into something approaching kind of concern,
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  you know, that there was a genuine concern about what these copycat clown sightings
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  would would do and whether we were actually at risk.
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  And I think ultimately that concern.
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  turns into anger, and then that eventually turns into something very tragic,
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  you know, and and so if if if this story is about anything,
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  and I and I really do think it's about something profound,
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  it's about what happens when fear takes over,
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  you know, what what fear does to us,
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  what it makes us feel, but also perhaps most importantly,
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  what fear makes us capable of doing to other people,
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  you know? And when that fear runs unchecked,
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  when it runs amok in society,
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  ~
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  people pray the pay the price,
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  you know, they really do. And and and and ~ there are real life consequences
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  to that. And I hope that this film,
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  in a really sensitive, respectful way,
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  explores that. I will say that ~ as a psychologist,
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  I will say that ~ as a psychologist,
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  one of my favorite parts of the story,
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  one of my favorite parts of the story,
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  and I won't give away too much,
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  and I won't give away too much,
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  is there's a specific story about I want to say like half to three quarters through,
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  is there's a specific story about I want to say like half
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  the three quarters through, you really start to see like the humanity behind some
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  where you really start to see like the humanity behind some of
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  the incidences and what's happening and how the people have turned on that.
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  of the incidences. Yes. What's happening and how the people have turned on that.
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  Yeah.
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  And that was so ~ that was profound for me to see that.
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  And that was so ~ that was profound for me to see that.
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  Like when you 'cause a lot of times when you see the sensationalness of it,
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  Like when you 'cause a lot of times when you see the sensationalness of it,
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  you just kind of settle into like there's killer clowns out there,
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  you just kind of settle into like there's pillar clowns out there,
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  you know, especially as it's on the news and stuff.
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  you know, especially as it's on the news and stuff.
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  But you kind of take that step in and show the people that are
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  but you kinda take that step in and show the people that
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  are suffering or like have suffered from the events.
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  suffering or like have suffered from the events.
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  I think that's well, I'm really pleased you you you felt that and
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  ~ my strong feeling is that there will be millions of people in America
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  and across the Western world who were like very aware of this story when it broke.
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  Very, very few of them, if any of them,
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  will have really been able to understand the full story,
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  you know, and and perhaps for the first time we're really able to tell
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  the story from beginning to end.
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  And, you know, when a film when a story like this,
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  a meme comes across your phone,
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  you you see it, you're scared,
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  you put your phone down, you move on to the next thing.
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  You know, but I don't think I think people will be very,
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  very surprised and at times shocked at how big this story got,
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  you know, and and I think it
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  As I said, I think it has a lot to say about the society in which we live.
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  Is there a particular moment during the filming that you like your
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  Is there a particular moment during the filming that you like your
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  ch your perspective was changed about the story overall?
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  ch your perspective was changed about the story overall?
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  ~ it's a great question. I think possibly we interviewed a professional clown named
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  Gilly the Clown, Guilford Adams,
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  who was an amazing clown and a even more amazing human being.
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  And I think what was so fascinating was that ~ we filmed him in full clown
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  get up and
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  That was just striking because ~ you know,
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  there's a thing called the sad sad clown paradox,
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  which is that often when you're looking at a clown face,
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  you can't quite tell w whether someone with their emotions,
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  you know, they're sort of in indiscernible and because they there's often,
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  you know, a smiley face but a tear dripping,
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  you know, and and it's very hard to understand quite what they're feeling.
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  And what I what I kept finding when I was talking to him ~ over a you know,
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  two, three, four hours was, you know,
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  he was incredibly
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  ~ introspective about what had happened,
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  but it was was you know, there were these moments of profound kind
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  of emotional intensity and and I was staring at someone who looked happy
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  but was was obviously feeling very sad at that point and I found that just kind
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  of f fascinating. And I think he,
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  you know, not just him, but the few people they really sit at the emotional heart
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  of this of this film. And I think it's surprising for people that the that
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  the human at the heart of the film is actually a clown.
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  So that that that had a profound impact on how we ended up structuring
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  the film and and ~ yeah, he's an extraordinary person,
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  as are all the people that took part in the film.
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  will say that that part of the movie I think was very eye opening
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  I will say that that part of the movie I think was very eye-opening
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  for somebody who again doesn't necessarily like clowns,
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  for somebody who again doesn't necessarily like clowns,
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  you know, just see like how their world was also impacted and like they were also
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  you know, just see like how their world was also impacted and like they were also
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  suffering in a way because of the way that the world was kind
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  suffering in a way because of the way that the world was kind
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  of responding to clowns at that time.
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  of responding to clowns at that time.
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  And so it
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  That that's right. And
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  it you know, when when when when they're
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  Clown sightings were popping up all over the place.
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  You know, people understandably started to turn against the clowns because they were
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  freaking us all out, you know,
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  they were scaring us. ~ and and clowns became kind of enemy number one.
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  And we can sort of laugh at that and think,
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  well that's that's fine, you know,
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  they're just clowns. Or we can actually try to understand what it what
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  is actually the experience of of a real human being who who is
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  a professional clown and you know,
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  they lost work. I think they felt under under threat,
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  you know, ~ physically. ~
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  as this kind of the atmosphere around this story became more and more febrile.
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  And also there was strange kind of barely believable sort
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  of cultural consequences to this,
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  which was that one of them being that Ronald McDonald was ~ as a as a result
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  of what was happening with the clown panic,
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  ~ fired, as as Gilly says.
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  And and you know, this Ronald's a staple of American culture,
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  you know, like Bar Santa Claus,
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  there's not many, there's not
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  Yeah.
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  that many more famous people.
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  you know, figures in American culture.
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  You know, everyone knows Ronald McDonald.
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  I certainly did as a kid. ~ and and that was sort of the end for him.
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  And and, you know, so this th that sounds like a perhaps like a silly
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  or s trivial point, but it's actually not.
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  You know, the the the this story did have real world consequences on
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  on pop culture and most importantly,
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  and I I we I don't know if we want to talk about what happens towards the
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  end of the film, but it has real life consequences,
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  you know, families
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  Lives were destroyed as a result of what happened.
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  And so yeah, I wanted to take audiences on that roller coaster.
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  You know, it's it's a wild, I hope highly entertaining ride at the beginning
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  of the film, but it goes into something very real,
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  very dark, very complex, and and I think should stand as a real cautionary tale
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  for what happens when fear takes over.
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  You know, I do have to say I didn't even notice in in real life that Brown Bernal
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  You know, I do have to say I didn't even notice in in real life that Ronald McDonald
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  disappeared until I watched your documentary.
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  disappeared until I watched through the documentary and I was like,
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  And then I was like, you're right,
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  ~ you're right, because it was just such
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  because it was just such a
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  a
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  it was a response. And I think that,
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  It was a response. And I think that,
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  you know, as a psychologist, we see it all the time.
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  you as a psychologist, we see it all the time.
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  Some one thing can happen and it can set caught it caused such a paradigm shift
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  Some one thing can happen and it can cause it caused such a paradigm shift
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  in a life or or a a microcosm.
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  in a life or or a microcosm.
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  And that
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  It's also
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  it's also sort of fascinating to me when I was making the film.
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  You know, when people started to describe their experiences of seeing clowns,
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  so often when they talked about their experiences,
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  it sounded like something out of a horror movie.
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  And it really made me realize that,
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  you know, for most of us, like
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  For for the last 20 years, we've just like through osmosis,
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  just been like we've had this kind of like Hollywood wash of amazing,
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  you know, creepy clown movies and and and all of that sort of seeps into
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  our subconscious. It changes how we we we feel about clowns.
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  But it also, you know, it it it it changes the way we tell stories and
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  the way we interpret things that are happening in the real world.
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  But there's this strange interplay because,
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  you know, ~ Hollywood was in well,
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  pop culture was informing how people were responding in the real world,
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  but then what happened in the real world then
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  changed
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  pop culture because we lost Ronald.
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  And so ~ tr trying to grapple with that and that strange kind of vortex that
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  we found ourselves within was ~ yeah,
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  it was it was a really fascinating exercise for us.
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  And I think matches that too, when you kind of just propose it to
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  And I think not just that too,
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  when you kind of just compose it to ~ the school shootings aspect too.
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  ~ the school shootings aspect too.
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  Like when you look at that and like how people as soon as something starts
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  Yeah. When you look at that and like how people as soon as something starts
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  to feel like a pattern, we're we're like nixing it.
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  to feel like a pattern, we're we're like missing it,
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  You know what I mean? You know,
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  you know what I mean? Yeah. Just getting rid of
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  just getting rid of it.
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  it. Yeah, I I mean obviously, you know,
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  America has a very complex and and and
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  ~ dark history of of of school shootings and it was taken very seriously
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  by the authorities at the time.
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  and I hope that people when they see it can also understand the other perspective
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  of people who perhaps got caught up in this and and ~ you know I I don't want
• 12:35
  the film certainly as a director we haven't tried to take sides at all.
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  We don't come in with a an agenda at all.
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  We want to be
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  squarely on the side of all of our contributors.
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  You know, we really do. Like they they were all had their own perspectives
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  and their own own journeys through this.
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  And we've tried to give everyone time and respect to to ~ to tell
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  us what happened to them and how it made them feel.
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  Was there anything in that regard then that ultimately just didn't make
• 12:58
  Was there anything in that regard then that ultimately just didn't make
• 13:01
  the film because it either didn't serve larger story or just there wasn't enough
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  the film because it either didn't serve larger story or just there wasn't enough
• 13:04
  time?
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  time?
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  I mean there's always a million things that end up not making the final cut.
• 13:08
  And I think with you know with those complicated stories like this where
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  There's lots of ways to tell it,
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  you know, and and you know, when I first looked at this story,
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  there were just hundreds and hundreds of seemingly unrelated clown sightings popping
• 13:20
  up all over the map. You know,
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  we we we we had to find a an emotional truth through that that that felt absolutely
• 13:27
  truthful to what happened back then and also took audiences on a
• 13:30
  on a comprehensible journey that they understood,
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  you know, ~ from people
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  becoming scared of clowns to in some cases people turning on the clowns
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  and and and starting to fight back against the clowns.
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  And again, I think that's probably a part of the story that not many people know
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  actually happened. ~ but you know I I I do think that like s w society's
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  in a strange place right now across the world.
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  We we actually do we know what it's like to feel anxious,
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  you know. We've been through COVID,
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  you know, ~ we
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  There's all sorts of things happening politically,
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  culturally, you know, there's the AI stuff that's happening now.
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  There's a lot of uncertainty around our future,
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  our identity. There's a lot of fear.
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  We know what it feels like to have that fear swirling around.
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  And, you know, I think I think this is actually a is an important story
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  in in shining a light on what happens when that fear gets out of control,
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  you know, and the fact that when fear takes over,
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  the the often the people that pay the biggest price for that or pay a price
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  for that are the vulnerable, you know?
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  And and it's
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  sort incumbent on all of us, you know,
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  whether it's on social media or not,
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  to to take responsibility for our role in that and to try to ensure that fear
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  doesn't take over and doesn't make us do things that that we wouldn't have done
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  otherwise.
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  It's a perfect answer and a great way to end this.
• 14:46
  Perfect answer and great way to end this.
• 14:47
  Thank you so much for being here and talking with me.
• 14:47
  Thank you so much for being here and talking with me.
• 14:49
  This has been such a pleasure.
• 14:49
  This has been such a pleasure.
• 14:50
  ~ we are so excited for the world to see clown panic.
• 14:50
  we are so excited for the world to see happening.
• 14:54
  Thanks, I really appreciate it.
• 14:55
  Thank you. So Clown Panic premieres October 12th on Hulu and Hulu and Disney Plus.
• 14:56
  So Clown Panic premieres October twelfth on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus.