Latest / Pod Save America / Why 2024 Should Be About the Supreme Court

Transcript

Why 2024 Should Be About the Supreme Court · Pod Save America

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Dan, nice to have you in L.A.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: It's great to be here.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Dan's here for today's pod. He's doing the Wednesday pod
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: with Adisu.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Doing the Thursday pod with you.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a big Dan week.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: On today's show, President Biden makes his pitch to black
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: voters and talks Gaza during a pair of speeches at
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Morehouse College in the NAACP in Detroit. Justice Alito and
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: his wife flew a stop the steal symbol outside their
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: house right after January 6th.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: That's cool.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: And Rudy Giuliani celebrated his 80th birthday by getting served
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: and serving coffee. How do you like that? We'll get
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: into it later. But first, the prosecution rests in the
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: people versus Donald Trump. The defense and DA finished up
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: with Michael Cohen on Monday. And two witnesses that the
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: defense called that I still can't understand why they called them.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: And Justice Mershon said we should expect the trial to
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: wrap up this week with closing arguments next Tuesday after
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: the Memorial Day holiday. Trump did his usual pretrial whining
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: outside the courtroom where he lamented the fact that his
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: felony charges are preventing him from campaigning in two primary
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: contests that took place months ago.
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Let's listen.
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: And we go on day after day, and I tell Iowa,
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I won't be able to make it.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: I tell New Hampshire, sorry, I won't be able to
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: make it.
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: I'm sitting in an icebox all day.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I'll admit I usually find the imagine if Joe Biden
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: did that brand of outrage a touch over-torqued at times.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: But imagine if Joe Biden did that. That one was pretty.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: Crazy to say.
• 2:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he does get confused about this election a lot.
• 2:03
  Speaker 6: He thinks he's running against Obama a lot. He thinks
• 2:05
  Speaker 6: he's still in the primary. He's going to early states.
• 2:08
  Speaker 6: He thinks he won 2020.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Maybe he's letting us know that their internal polling in
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Ohio is not superb.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: In Iowa. God damn it.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Maybe I shouldn't run for president.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you are.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Senior moment, Dan.
• 2:18
  Speaker 7: That's right.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: It happens. Yeah, it was sort of a wild day
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: in court on Monday.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Can we just harp for one second on the double
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: standard here? Because if Joe Biden had done that, We
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: would be on day five of democratic panic.
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: There would be several New York times columns about why
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden needs to drop out right now.
• 2:38
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: Political playbook would do a long Q and a with
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: a neuroscientist.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: And it is, it's not, it is not the media
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: is the coverage is not why Joe Biden is not
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: winning this race, but that's not why he's winning people
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: read newspapers. So bad newspaper coverage is not his problem,
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: but still do a better job.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: People.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: It's just, It's a ridiculous double standard. If we worked
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: in the White House, it would drive us insane.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Fox News would get like a Neuralink on one
• 3:08
  Speaker 6: of its reporters, maybe. Those little Elon Musk.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of screaming after the trial as well.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: He may have like violated his gag order again because
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: he was talking about the defense's witness, his witness, who's
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: this guy, Robert Costello, who's Rudy's ex-lawyer.
• 3:24
  Speaker 8: Sure.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Who they put up on the stand to say that
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Michael Cohen was a liar. And then, The guy's like
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: rolling his eyes and sighing and saying Jesus and all
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: this kind of stuff. And the judge was so pissed
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: that he cleared the courtroom. And then Trump is like,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: how could they have treated him like that? He's a
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: good man. He's a good lawyer. He's like screaming after
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: court and he's doing the whole thing. It's going to
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: be an interesting story. Interesting week or two on how
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: this thing wraps up.
• 3:51
  Speaker 6: I listened to all the legal experts. I listened to
• 3:52
  Speaker 6: Norm Eisen. I listened to the other pods on other
• 3:55
  Speaker 6: networks that we won't name. I have no idea how
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: this is going to go. Do these jurors really not
• 3:59
  Speaker 6: know that Michael Cohen's a liar? I feel like Michael
• 4:01
  Speaker 6: Cohen told them he's a liar. How much is this
• 4:03
  Speaker 6: going to matter?
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: I just want to get all of the legal eagles
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: in a room together and give them a real lesson
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: in expectation setting. Because every one of them is like,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: the cases come in great, locked down, I haven't seen
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: a single crack. I cannot possibly imagine that anything could
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: go wrong. It's like, people?
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, the defense at the end of Monday tried
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: to ask the judge to throw the whole case out.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Because there's no evidence that Trump had any criminal intent.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: This was the question I asked Norm last week. And
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: then the prosecution's like, there doesn't need to be evidence
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: that he had intent. He caused the falsification of the
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: business records.
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: Politico had a good piece on this, on how Trump
• 4:40
  Speaker 6: seems to constantly demand things from his lawyers that they
• 4:43
  Speaker 6: know are bad legal strategies. He's constantly asking for his
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: lawyers to demand a mistrial, even though they know there's
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: no basis for one, and it makes everyone involved look stupid.
• 4:52
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell there's a lot of that lawyering
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: going on in this trial. So contrary to what he said,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Trump has made quite a few campaign appearances recently. He
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: was in Minnesota. and at the NRA convention in Dallas
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: over the weekend, where he once again said just a
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: bunch of crazy shit that makes it really hard to
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: believe the race is tied. Here's the sample.
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: But I want to just start off by saying hello, Minnesota.
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: This is a great state. We're going to win this state.
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: I thought we won it in 2016. I thought we
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: won it in, I know we won it in 2020.
• 5:22
  Speaker 7: I just want to debate this guy, but you know,
• 5:26
  Speaker 7: and I'm going to, I'm going to demand a drug
• 5:28
  Speaker 7: test too, by the way.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I am.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: No, I really am.
• 5:31
  Speaker 7: FDR, 16 years, almost 16 years, he was four term.
• 5:37
  Speaker 7: I don't know, are we gonna be considered three term
• 5:39
  Speaker 7: or two term? You tell me, Ronnie, what do you think?
• 5:42
  Speaker 9: In my second term, we will roll back every Biden
• 5:45
  Speaker 9: attack on the Second Amendment. The attacks are fast and furious,
• 5:49
  Speaker 9: starting the minute that Crooked Joe shuffles his way.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Out of the White House.
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: And honestly, there's been no.
• 5:57
  Speaker 10: President since Abraham Lincoln, and perhaps in a certain way,
• 6:04
  Speaker 10: including Abraham Lincoln, but there's been no president since Abraham
• 6:08
  Speaker 10: Lincoln that has done more for the black individual in
• 6:13
  Speaker 10: this country than president Donald J.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Trump.
• 6:16
  Speaker 7: There's been nobody, not even close.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: In a certain way, what way is it including Abraham Lincoln?
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Only we can have follow-up questions.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: So that's all from just two speeches. And I wanted
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: to play that because I think it highlights a challenge
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: that Trump's opponents have always faced, continue to face, which
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: is this. The guy gives you so many targets to
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: choose from. Like, how do you decide what to hit?
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Just in that. Lying about the election again, floating a
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: third term, which is the headline that Politico went with,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: promising to let dangerous people buy guns again, which is
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: what he said at the NRA convention, and barely got
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: any coverage at all. What do you think, Dan?
• 6:55
  Speaker 9: I think, one.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: We've talked about all those crazy things previous times. We've
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: definitely podcast about the Abraham Lincoln thing in the past.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: It's not even the first time we've had to do that.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: And the third term thing, we've talked about that many times.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. And lying about the election.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: Is just table stakes. Yeah, that's just.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: He opens his mouth.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: It's a little crazier to say it about a state
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: that Joe Biden won by seven points, I think, nine
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: points in 2020. That one wasn't close.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, you don't know how big that steal that
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: was stolen was.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: But in this case, it is... The most obvious and
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: important point to make is the gun safety stuff. You
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: have to look really hard to find something more unpopular
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: than repealing the gun safety laws that are already on
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: the books to make it easier for people and for
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: the very specific audiences that Joe Biden has struggled with,
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: particularly young voters. In that Snapchat social sphere poll that
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: was done a few weeks ago about voters under 30,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: when they asked young people what they were most stressed about, inflation,
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: number one, 72%, I think it was. Number three, right
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: behind healthcare costs, was gun violence. So for young voters,
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: you have Donald Trump saying he is going to make
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: it easier for dangerous people to buy guns. And we
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: already have gun safety laws that are so porous in
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: this country. You're going to make them more porous? You're
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: going to undo the only gun safety law that's been
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: passed in the last 20 years? I think this is
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: something that it is a dereliction of duty for this
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: not to be a bigger deal in the press coverage.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: And I also think that talking in an election where
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: voters are this cynical, We're going to have more success
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: talking about the things that Donald Trump will take away
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: from people than the things we might be able to
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: give them because they don't believe for good reason that
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Congress is going to be able to do something big.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: But you think things are bad now? He's going to
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: make them worse.
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I should think of a systemic way to think
• 8:40
  Speaker 6: about this. And I think you want to filter out
• 8:42
  Speaker 6: the rage bait. There's lots of stuff he says that
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: is designed to trigger the libs and rally the base
• 8:46
  Speaker 6: by triggering us. And when we focus on that, I
• 8:49
  Speaker 6: think it's to our detriment. Similarly, when you see some
• 8:55
  Speaker 6: random MAGA candidate put out a video on Twitter, like
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: the woman jogging in the bulletproof vest yelling about gay people,
• 9:02
  Speaker 6: she tweeted that because she hopes someone like me will
• 9:05
  Speaker 6: quote tweet it and share it.
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: So we want to avoid that. Did you? I did not.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: I did retweet Jason Kander quote tweeting it. So I
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: broke my own rule.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's okay. I'll allow it.
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: Dan always says screenshot your enemies, quote tweet your friends.
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: I would also, I think I would avoid things that
• 9:19
  Speaker 6: feel backward looking. I think people don't like the 2020 lies.
• 9:23
  Speaker 6: They don't like January 6th. But I think you want
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: to talk about the future, which does get you to
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: the guns point again. And also the Harvard poll, Harvard
• 9:30
  Speaker 6: youth poll also had, I think, 67% of Democrats were
• 9:34
  Speaker 6: very concerned about guns, 51% of independents. So I would
• 9:37
  Speaker 6: definitely focus on that because it gets to the stakes
• 9:39
  Speaker 6: of the next election and not just the records. And
• 9:41
  Speaker 6: by the way, that whole NRA speech was out there.
• 9:44
  Speaker 6: He was bragging about deeming gun and ammunition sellers as
• 9:49
  Speaker 6: critical infrastructure during COVID. so that they could stay open,
• 9:52
  Speaker 6: which I did not remember.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I don't remember that either.
• 9:55
  Speaker 6: But it seems like an insane abuse of whatever process
• 9:59
  Speaker 6: they had in place to try to keep us safe
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: in service of, you know, helping out the NRA.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: My general rule is, like, we got to go after
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: him on what he'll do, not what he said. And
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: particularly when it relates to new information for voters. And, like,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: this is... You said first gun... reform bill that passed in,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: you know, 20, 30 years and overwhelmingly bipartisan. Was it
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: a great bill?
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: Was it?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: No. I mean, like it wasn't the best.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: Didn't do enough.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Did it do enough? No, it did not do enough.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: But what he's talking about here and repealing it, like
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: red flag laws to remove weapons from people deemed a
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: threat to themselves and others. The bill also prevents people
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: convicted from domestic abuse from owning a gun. So we're
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: going to repeal that. Background checks on 18 to 21-year-olds,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: going to let 18-year-olds buy assault weapons without a background check, right?
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: And then the gun show loophole, right, which President Biden
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: finally closed and means that, like, there's just, it basically
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: stops gun trafficking without background checks from, you know, gun
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: shows and online dealers and all the other kind of stuff.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: That is just, that's so, that's going to be so
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: unpopular repealing.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, each of those provisions generally have north
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: of 60% and often north of 70% support.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: You mentioned the press has got to cover it. Also,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: like Democrats got to drive this stuff, too, you know,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: because there was like a lot of back and forth
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: on the debate challenge.
• 11:17
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Or the drug tests for the debate thing that we
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: saw a lot of back and forth on that. A
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: lot of back and forth on like I didn't even
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: play this clip, but there was the weird thing where
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: he paused. He like froze during one of the speeches
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: and prompter broke and he's tried to like. fix the
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: prompter and he's like joking about the prompter, which actually
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: seems sort of funny. Everyone's tweeting about that. I'm like,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: this is just not, it is not as useful and
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: effective at actually changing people's minds or getting people out
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: to vote than telling them, oh yeah, by the way,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: there's going to be dangerous people with guns again in
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: your community.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: There are sort of two ways to think about communications
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: in this world we live in right now. One is
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: you adhere to the old way of doing business, like
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: a macro communications model, where you're going to have one story,
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: you're going to try to drive that story, and you're
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: going to pick moments from your opponent that undergird that story.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: But if you're going to do that, you have to
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: be consistent on what those moments are, right? It can't
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: be strongman dictator today, feeble fall asleep in the courtroom
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: guy five minutes later. And within the NRA speech, people were,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: within the official democratic universe, were simultaneously complaining that he
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: was going to be a strongman who served three terms
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: and he can't stand on a podium. And that is
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: a problem.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: It doesn't fit. I know. It's a fundamental problem. Now,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: the other way to.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Do this is to decide that in a world where
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: only decided voters consume mass media, that you think differently
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: and you pick the pieces and then you work backwards
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: from your audience, right? Like, who are our target audience?
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: What do they care about?
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: We need to get young voters. For young voters, the
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: most important part of this speech is the gun safety stuff, right?
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: For a different segment of the audience, you might pick that.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: And then you would use sort of trusted messengers to
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: deliver that. But we're like living in both worlds and
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: we are, it is just times a flat circle. It's
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: the same, it's 2016, it's 2020 all over again. And
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: it's just either pick one thing, pick it, pick a
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: lane and stick in it or decide that you're not
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: going to even worry about sort of what your mass
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: message is and just have target your audience with targeted messages.
• 13:17
  Speaker 6: You don't think it should be like Biden holding a
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: selfie stick being like, I just pissed in a cup.
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: What about you, Don? Your move, Donnie.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Honestly, it's like, just imagine talking.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: I'll keep that one to myself.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I think that's great. I think he's just... Just imagine
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: talking to someone on the doors or on the phone
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: who's like wavering about voting for Biden. Would you be like, well,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I just gotta tell you, did you... Trump had a
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: speech the other day. He was fooling around with a teleprompter.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: He yelled at the lighting guy.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he asked for a drug test. He'd be like,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: what are you talking about?
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: No, it's the most insider stuff.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: He'd be like, no, actually, the domestic abuser down the
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: street who doesn't have the gun, like, yeah, he wants
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: to give him a gun.
• 13:52
  Speaker 6: And this is annoying and hard because, like, Political Playbook
• 13:55
  Speaker 6: clearly spent, like, three days emailing the Biden team asking
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: for a response on the drug team, and they finally responded.
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: And so you have to deal with a press corps
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: that isn't focused on the big things you want to
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: talk about, but that's, you know, part of the challenge.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: It's another complication. Meanwhile, we also had a couple weekend
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: speeches from Joe Biden, a normal president who's a bit
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: old and not very popular, but has done a bunch
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: of stuff he promised and wants four more years to
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: finish the job. The president gave the commencement at Morehouse
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: College in Atlanta, which is historically black and all-male. He
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: also spoke at an NAACP event in Detroit. In both speeches,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: he acknowledged black Americans' frustrations and laid out the pretty
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: clear choice in the election.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: It's natural to wonder if democracy you hear about actually
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: works for you. What is democracy? If black men are
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: being killed in the street, what is democracy? The trail
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: of broken promises still leave black communities behind. What is democracy?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: You have to be 10 times better than anyone else
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: to get a fair shot. Most of all, what does
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: it mean, as we've heard before, to be a black
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: man who loves his country, even if it doesn't love
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: him back in equal measure?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: What did you guys think of the Morehouse speech?
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: That section made me think of a conversation I had
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: with Terrence Woodbury on this pod a few weeks back
• 15:24
  Speaker 6: where he talked about how important it was to make
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: voters the hero of the story and talk to them
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: about their agency and their power if they turn out
• 15:33
  Speaker 6: to make things better. But also to recognize in that
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: same breath, especially for voters of color, that you can't
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: just talk about protecting democracy because a lot of people
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: don't feel like it has worked for them. You have
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: to talk about fixing it, restoring it, improving it. And
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: it seemed like Biden heard that messaging or heard that
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: tweak and spoke to it a bit there.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I think it got to,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I found it interesting because it revealed, I think, how
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Biden is himself thinking about what is the core challenge
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: of his campaign strategy, which is in a time of
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: historic cynicism, particularly among core elements of your coalition, how
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: do you run on a platform of saving our current
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: political system? And so trying to understand people's frustrations with it,
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: to acknowledge those frustrations, and then explain why we still
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: need to fight for democracy, that is the circle they
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: have to square in order to be able to succeed
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: with the strategy on which they're running right now.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was really smart and honest, and
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: just to acknowledge that not only black voters, but a
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: lot of people just don't feel like democracy is working
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: for him. And then he sort of ended by saying,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: you know, my commitment to you is to show you
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: that democracy is still the way I think that he
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: could tease that thread out, you know, further in the
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: months to come. I find myself wishing he would do
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: that a little more on the economy, you know, just
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: really acknowledging people's frustrations with how things have gone and,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: and what he's going to do in another four years
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: to like make life better for people. And, uh, instead
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: of just doing the accomplishments list.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, you two know this better than anybody.
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: I mean, commencements are so tricky because you have this
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: national message you're trying to deliver, but you have to
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: speak to the people in that room because it's a
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: huge day for them and for their families.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: And I did think, you know, it was interesting. I
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: was listening this.
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: Morning and I guess, you know, having just had a
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: second kid, it kind of hit me all over again.
• 17:29
  Speaker 6: Hearing President Biden talk about loss in his life and
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: losing his kids, it hit me very differently than in
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: talking about how you persevere through that, through faith and
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: community and empathy. And he singled out the parents of
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: the graduates in particular and talked about how proud they
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: should be to help getting all those graduates there. I
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: thought it was a nice moment. And then also just
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: speaking to how brutally hard the last four years have
• 17:54
  Speaker 6: been for all these kids. I mean, going through the pandemic,
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: going through the George Floyd protests, just like the generally.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: Toxic political climate.
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: I don't know if it resonated, like the press coverage
• 18:04
  Speaker 6: suggested that most of the applause came from alumni and
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: not necessarily students. But it was interesting to see President
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: Biden try to connect with this, you know, generation, a
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: quarter of his age, even if it didn't work.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the personal stuff really landed with me the same way.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: And like, I've heard him tell those stories before. He really,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: I haven't heard him talk about it in that much
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: detail in a while when he lost his first wife,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: when he lost his daughter, when Bo and Hunter were
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: almost killed in that crash as well. And then, Later,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: when he talks about basically Beau, when he was dying
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: of cancer on his deathbed, making Biden promise that he
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: wouldn't give up and he'd stay in public service. It
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: does make you realize like, this is why he's doing this.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: You know, our, our old friend, David Axelrod often has
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: talked about this before, where in your first campaign, you
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: run in your bio and then you win. And you
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: think everyone, when you went for reelection, you, you assume
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: everyone has known your bio because you talked about it
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: was in a billion dollars in VAS. You talked about
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: it every stump speech for two years, but. people don't
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: remember it. Like they lose touch with that part of
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: the story. And I think it's really important for Biden
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: to continue to do it because it is truly who
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: he is. If you've ever spent any time around Joe Biden,
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: that is so clearly the loss he has suffered defines
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: how he thinks about the world, how he relates to people.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: But it's also evidence of his strength and his toughness
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: that he went through all of that and persevered and
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: gets up every day and still does his job and
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: still fights for some of the other families. And in
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: an election where strength is really driving a lot of
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: the political conversation about how a lot of voters are
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: thinking about who they're picking, that is Trump's huge advantage.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: And it is a way to narrow it, to talk
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: about how he went through those experiences as evidence of
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: his personal strength, right? And I think this is really important.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: And he does it so well. And like we I
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: hope and imagine we will see at some point in
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: this more bio ads, which I know seems crazy because
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: he has been on the public stage for 50 years.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: He was a vice president for eight years, our president
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: for four years. But we have to remind people of
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: that story because they don't they thought about in 2020.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: They haven't thought about it since.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's also not just a bio story for
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: the sake of telling your bio. It's the bio story
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: as your motivation for your presidency and for why you're
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: in public service, which I think is important. To your
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: point about strength, too, he also was very interesting. I
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: thought he took on sort of like the fake notion
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: of strength. And he said, you know, extremist forces who
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: peddle toxic caricature of what being a man is about,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: tough talk, abusing power, bigotry. Being a man is about
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: the strength of respect and dignity, showing up because it's
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: too late if you have to ask, standing up to
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: the abuse of power. So really, you know, both a contrast,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: an indirect contrast with Trump because he didn't say his name. But,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: you know, he's talking to an audience of young men,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: young black men. And we have talked about before how,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: you know, over the years, young black men, young Latino men,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: young white men, too, have sort of been drifting away
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: from the Democratic Party because some of them are sort
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: of taken with this sort of false narrative. caricature of
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: what being a man is really about. And I think
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: it was really good.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: That he took that on.
• 21:06
  Speaker 6: One best articulated by NFL kickers as of late. They're
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: really teaching us how to be toxically male. That point
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: you made about President Biden recounting his deathbed conversation with
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: Beau Biden, that was new information to me too.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: And it was really interesting.
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: I mean, I knew like, obviously his book is called
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: Promise Me Dad and his need for him to stay
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: in the fight, but it did make me think because
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: There's clearly some lingering frustration in 2016 between President Biden
• 21:33
  Speaker 6: and President Obama for not encouraging him to run. And
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: whenever I thought about that conversation, I would sort of
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: think to myself, if I had a friend who just
• 21:43
  Speaker 6: lost a child, the last thing in the world I
• 21:45
  Speaker 6: would tell them to do is run for office because
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: it's just like agonizingly awful. But it's clear that the
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: way President Biden viewed it was as a promise to
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: he made to his own son to continue this fight
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: and be in politics. And just, it helped me understand
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: better sort of where he was coming from on all this.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: And I think it answers the question, like he's, he's,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: he's 81 years old. Why is he doing this again?
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Why didn't he step aside? And he, I think a,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: he really does believe that he's the best person to
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: be Donald Trump and, and continue to serve as president. And, and,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: and B, he just really wants to stay in the
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: fight partly, I think because of the promise he made
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: to Bo. Now, Is that right? Will it work? We
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: don't know. That's what the whole election is. But it
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: does answer that question.
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: It helps you understand it.
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: There were reportedly a handful of students who turned their
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: backs on Biden during his speech to silently protest his
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Gaza policy. And the president actually talked about the war
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: in his remarks. Let's listen.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I want to say this very clearly. I support peaceful,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: nonviolent protest. Your voices should be heard. And I promise you,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I hear them. What's happening in Gaza and Israel is heartbreaking.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Hamas is viciously attacking Israel, killing innocent lives, and holding
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: people hostage. It's a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. That's why
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I've called for an immediate ceasefire. An immediate ceasefire to
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: stop the fighting. Bring the hostages home. This is one
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: of the hardest, most complicated problems in the world, and
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: there's nothing easy about it. I know it angers and
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: frustrates many of you, including my family. But most of all,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I know it breaks your heart breaks mine as well.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Leadership is about fighting through the most intractable problems. It's
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: about challenging anger, frustration, and heartbreak to find a solution.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: It's about doing what you believe is right, even when
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: it's hard and lonely.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: So I thought it was indicative of the challenge Biden
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: has on Gaza that he said all that just a
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: day before he called the International Criminal Court's application for
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: an arrest warrant against Bibi Netanyahu. outrageous. It just seems
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: like he's he's trying now to thread the needle in
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: a way that is making no one happy. What did
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: you make of his comments?
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think that's right.
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: I mean, also, it seems to confirm some previous reporting
• 24:05
  Speaker 6: that Jill Biden in particular is very concerned about what's.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: Happening in Gaza.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was bet he was.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: I was maybe his grandkids, too. I'm sure all of
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: the above.
• 24:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I do think it speaks to the fact that
• 24:16
  Speaker 6: when it comes to Gaza, Biden has a lot of power.
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: But at the.
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: Either side to do what he wants. I mean, they've
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: spent an enormous amount of time trying to broker a
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: ceasefire agreement. Bill Burns, the CIA director, has been over
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: there constantly trying to work with the parties, work with
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: Qatar and the Egyptians and Hamas and Israel to bring
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: together some kind of deal. But Biden can't make Hamas
• 24:41
  Speaker 6: release the hostages and take the deal. And he can't
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: force Netanyahu to accept a ceasefire. He can pressure both
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: sides as much as he can. And I'm in the
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: camp where I've wanted to see the administration do more
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: to pressure the Israelis to protect civilians and to offer
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: a deal that would lead to a ceasefire. But Netanyahu's
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: got his own political incentives. And we've seen he likes
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: to pick fights with the US. So I think what
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: you also heard there from Biden is he's alluding to
• 25:08
  Speaker 6: the fact that the longer term challenges that will come
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: after the war is over are even harder. His team
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: has been working really hard on trying to get a
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: normalization agreement between the Saudis and the Israelis that they
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: think will lead to a path to a Palestinian state
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: consider me very skeptical that that's going to happen, that
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: Netanyahu is going to agree with anything that would lead
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: to a two-state solution. But look, I don't know what
• 25:33
  Speaker 6: they know. I'm not part of these conversations. And that's
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: clearly what he's alluding to here.
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, your point about, you know, like you can't
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: just pick up the phone and make a call. I mean,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: that sort of was like driven home to me with
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: a couple of days ago, Netanyahu's a defense minister.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: Gallant, yeah.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Gallant. Basically said, like, I'm leaving the coalition if there's
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: no plan, right? I'm going to leave Bibi's government, you know,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: the wartime coalition that he's got put together. And Netanyahu's
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: just like, yeah, fuck off.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: He also gave him a three-week deadline.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: He's like, you got three weeks.
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: To fix this.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And Netanyahu's like, yeah, I'll take one day to respond.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I don't really care. And it's just like, if Netanyahu's
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: not even going to respond to domestic pressure at home,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: political pressure, it's like, you know, obviously, you know, we've
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: talked about it before and advocated like Biden has been
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: able to, uh, pressure BB into, you know, letting more
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: aid in. And of course he like withheld the 2000
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: pound bombs for, you know, the, uh, to, to try
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: to stave off an invasion of Rafa. Um, and he's
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: had like, you know, mixed success on some of those things,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: but getting him to just end the whole war is,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: is a pretty hard thing to do.
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, look, I mean, Israel is a sovereign country. Netanyahu
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: is a leader who's going to make decisions based on
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: what he thinks in the security interests of Israel, but
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: also in his own political interests. And Netanyahu is far
• 26:54
  Speaker 6: more concerned about the far right wing in Israel and
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: members of his coalition that have said overtly that if
• 27:02
  Speaker 6: he doesn't invade Rafah, they will pull out, they will
• 27:04
  Speaker 6: topple the government. And then you could see a process
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: that leads to Netanyahu getting prosecuted and being unable to
• 27:10
  Speaker 6: save himself from that prosecution. I'm not saying That any
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: of those are good reasons to continue war. I think
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: they're deeply immoral and wrong. And I would love to
• 27:18
  Speaker 6: see the administration do more things like withholding the delivery
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: of 2,000-pound bombs, which should never be used in an
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: urban environment like Gaza in the first place, let alone Rafah. But,
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: you know, there's limits to the power.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: Are you saying that a corrupt autocratic leader would go
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: to extreme immoral lengths to avoid criminal prosecution?
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: I hope that shit didn't happen here.
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: I think the ICC needs to call balls and strikes.
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: And if they see someone they think has committed war crimes,
• 27:48
  Speaker 6: they should prosecute that person. But I think what you're
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: hearing from the administration is concerned that at a time
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: when they're seeing fractures within the governing coalition in Israel
• 27:58
  Speaker 6: and hope that would create political pressure on Netanyahu, that
• 28:01
  Speaker 6: this ICC process might actually bring the coalition back together
• 28:05
  Speaker 6: and give, you know, put some wind in it, and yeah,
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: it was back politically. I don't know if that's the
• 28:11
  Speaker 6: right analysis, but that's, you know, what the reporting says
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: about how they're thinking about this.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: Just two quick things on the speech. One, I think
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: it is really important that the president of the United
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: States stood up for peaceful protests as a core American
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: value and part of our democracy, particularly at a time
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: in which the person he's running against is demonizing protesters,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: threatening to deport protesters for just expressing First Amendment rights.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: So I think that was an important thing to do.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: One Republican just introduced a bill in the House for
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: anyone who is convicted of trespassing or disorderly conduct at
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: these protests, any college kids, to send them to Gaza.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: Can I think of an event in our recent history
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: where a bunch of people trespassed on perhaps the second
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: branch of government?
• 28:54
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Where are they going?
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: They're just choir singers.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: So hypocritical.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: The other thing, just looking at it, just listening to
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: Biden's speech here is it's just a reminder that communications
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: cannot solve a policy problem. And the policy problem here
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: and the political problem, frankly, is that what has become
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: defined as success politically for Biden is completely, almost entirely
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: outside of his control, right? This is the Tommy, you
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: can speak better to the flaws from a policy perspective
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: in the hug Netanyahu approach. But in the hug Netanyahu
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: approach is you still need Netanyahu to do what you
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: need done. And he is an untrustworthy, corrupt individual. And so, yes,
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: he can call for us. He's very into all these things.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: But you either are going to have to radically change
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: US policy towards Israel in a way in which has
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: never been done before, or have Netanyahu be a person
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: who is not Bibi Netanyahu and do something totally different,
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: or you're going to end up right where you are,
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: which is in a situation where you are pleasing no
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: one and angering everyone.
• 29:54
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, I don't like how Joe Biden has
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: handled Gaza. I think it was fundamentally based on a
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: misguided view of Netanyahu and what he'd do. But hearing
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: him talk about leadership is about fighting through intractable problems.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: It's about doing what you believe is right, even when
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: it's hard and lonely. You can tell that he is
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: genuinely wrestling with this, with this decision, with all the
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: decisions he's made and how just hard it's been to
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: figure out a way to actually end this war.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 30:26
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: And that's what it is.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: If you want to end it, you have to get
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: BB to end it. You can't just say, end it
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: and have it end. And that is, I'm sure that
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: is what like everyone who's ever worked in government deals
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: with this expectations mismatch between what they, the power they
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: believe their leaders to have and the power of their
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: leaders actually have to accomplish things and how that process works.
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I do think they should have put
• 30:48
  Speaker 6: pressure on the Israeli government earlier and been harder about it.
• 30:51
  Speaker 6: I mean, banning delivery of 2,000-pound bombs is such a
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: no-brainer that Bob Gates, George W. Bush's defense secretary, then
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: our defense secretary, said it was obviously the right thing
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: to do, right? But then you'll see how Netanyahu reacts
• 31:04
  Speaker 6: to this. And he's like, we will fight alone if
• 31:06
  Speaker 6: we have to. And he knows damn well that the
• 31:08
  Speaker 6: Israelis are getting all kinds of military and intelligence support
• 31:11
  Speaker 6: from the United States. They're not fighting alone, right? They're
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: not getting a shipment of 3,500 2,000-pound bombs. Give me
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: a fucking break that that's going to mean you're fighting alone.
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: But yes, at the end of the day, you are
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: dealing with an actor on the other end who frankly
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: wants your opponent to win the election and you have
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: to approach them accordingly. And it can't be outsourcing your
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: messaging or strategy.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: To that person. Yeah.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: And again, none of it is satisfying from a communications
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: or political perspective. You say that you're not going to
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: send the 2000 pound bombs and then another deal happens
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: the week after with like a billion dollars in weapons
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: that are going to israel but they're not going to
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: go for a couple years but like does anyone does
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: anyone like.
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: What's incoherent i mean it's an incoherent policy like let's
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: just call it what it.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Is right and it's just uh it's a hard one
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: to explain when it's an incoherent.
• 31:57
  Speaker 6: And you have a bunch of democrats voting in support
• 32:00
  Speaker 6: of a bill that basically says the u.s can never
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: condition any military assistance israel so i mean that's ridiculous.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: It's not to excuse any of it but it's fucking
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: brutal So if you need a reminder of why you
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: should still vote for Biden, even if you're unhappy with him,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: here it is. The New York Times reports that in
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: the days after January 6th, Trump supporters flew upside down
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: flags outside their homes as a symbol of solidarity with
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: the Stop the Steal movement. And according to photographs and
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: interviews with neighbors, one of those homes belonged to none
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: other than Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito. Alito responded by
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: giving an interview to, who else, Fox News, where he
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: blamed the whole thing on his wife, Martha Ann, and
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: said that she only did it after getting in a
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: fight with a neighbor who posted a Fuck Trump sign
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: near a school bus stop. Legal reporter Chris Geidner also reported,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: a couple days after, that Alito dumped his Bud Light
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: stock last summer after the company was targeted by right-wing
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: activists for featuring a trans person in an advertisement. When
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: a neighbor calls you and your preferred candidate names, like,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: you know, you have no choice but to publicly support
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: extremists who wanted to overturn the last free and fair election.
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: That's just the way things are.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: It's natural.
• 33:23
  Speaker 6: Did you guys know that the upside down flag meant
• 33:27
  Speaker 6: this stop the steal thing?
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I did not know.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: I did not. The question is. How did Martha Alito
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: know it?
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: Well, that's the thing, right?
• 33:33
  Speaker 6: That suggests that she is a terminally online freak in
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: some weird MAGA spaces.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Because I saw some people tweeting like, oh, you know,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: if you Google upside down flags up the steel and
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: you take out the results from this story, like it
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a lot of, there's not a lot of
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: news stories about that. But the New York Times report
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: is like, yeah, it was on social media. It was
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: on chat boards. People were posting stuff online.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: What is her 4chan username?
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: You have to be really in deep, which clearly Martha
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Ann Alito and probably Sam Alito are.
• 34:08
  Speaker 6: That's a real founding father's name right there. Martha Ann Alito.
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: Is that real?
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: What is going on with the wives of the Supreme
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Court justices? Real housewives of January 6th?
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: Well, shout out to Justice Alito for blaming his wife. Again,
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: that's what a real man does, as we learned from
• 34:22
  Speaker 6: Harrison Bucker. Again, though, as Strict Scrutiny pointed out in
• 34:26
  Speaker 6: their excellent podcast on this today, at no point in
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: their statement do they deny that Alito knew this was
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: a Stop the Steal flag or Stop the Steal symbol
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: by flying upside down, or do they deny that that
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: was their intention?
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's insane, and it's worth noting that At
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: this exact moment, when that upside down flag was flying
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: on their house, the Supreme Court was still making decisions
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: about which election related court cases to take up, let
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: alone right now, all the election related cases before Donald Trump.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: Sam Alito's family.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: And Sam Alito was on the losing side of one
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: of those.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Sam Alito's family flew in pro-insurrection flag. And right now,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Sam Alito is part of a group of people who
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: are making it so Donald Trump may not face legal
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: accountability for crimes emanating from said insurrection.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: It is wild.
• 35:14
  Speaker 6: And the Supreme Court Code of Ethics specifically says you
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: cannot engage in political activity or make political statements.
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: Full stop.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, and then the Bud Light thing, that might
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: seem like a, but it's like, what do you do?
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: And he also, and then he dumped the Bud Light
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: stock and then he bought Coors Light stock.
• 35:28
  Speaker 6: Well, and again, he also, I mean, for those who
• 35:31
  Speaker 6: don't remember this, this was a cause picked up by
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: the vicious libs of TikTok account. And basically the sort
• 35:38
  Speaker 6: of TikTok on this, thanks to Chris Geidner over at Lawdork,
• 35:41
  Speaker 6: was On August 13, libs of TikTok posted their most
• 35:46
  Speaker 6: vicious post about Dylan Mulvaney. And the next day is
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: when Alito sold his Bud Light stock and bought the
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: core stock. So again, the information ecosystem there is very
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: right-wing and weird.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: But you see this with a lot of these older
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: establishment Republicans, like even Bill Barr, right? Who then he
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: briefly had a dalliance with the resistance, but he's back.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: But these are, you know, these are, you know, well-educated, well-read.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: Imagine him just pouring over the Federalist Papers.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: But he's not.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: He's watching the fucking Five.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: You see the story in the New York Times. Put
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: out a statement, if anything, a bullshit statement. He does
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: an interview with Fox?
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: It is so on the fucking nose.
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: It's the only media outlet I could possibly trust.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And this is after Jeannie Thomas is texting with Mark
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Meadows on January 6th.
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: Shout out to that neighbor for documenting it, though. Whoever
• 36:38
  Speaker 6: took a picture of that illegal flag Thank you.
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: And you know what?
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Great reporting from The New York Times.
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: The lead of that story is fucking Pulitzer.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Jody Cantor did a great, great job on that piece. So, Dan,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: you wrote a great message box on this issue titled
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Why Dems Should Run Against the MAGA Supreme Court. What's
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: what's your argument?
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, everyone who's listening to this is obviously
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: subscribed and read it. But for the rare few of
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: you who haven't, I will summarize it for you. In
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: this election, right, we are in a situation where the
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: voters that Joe Biden needs, like the path to winning
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: is actually pretty clear. As you look at the New
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: York Times Santa poll, and there are all these people
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: who are supporting Ruben Gallego for Senate in Arizona, Jackie
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: Rosen for Senate in Nevada, Bob Casey in Pennsylvania, Tammy
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Baldwin in Wisconsin, but they are either voting for Donald
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Trump or a third party candidate, most.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: Likely RFK Jr. at the top of the ticket.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: These are the voters we need, right? For some reason,
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: they are, they support Democrats, they support Democratic policies. But
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: for some reason, they've soured on Joe Biden. So we
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: have to convince them that it is a mistake to
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: throw away their vote at the top of the ticket.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: I would struggle to come up with a better reason
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: than the Supreme Court. Like, just think about the stakes here, right? Ultimately,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: to get this people, we have to make this election
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: bigger than a contest between two unpopular old men, which
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: I think is a very unfair characterization of Joe Biden.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: But that's how voters are seeing it, right? And so
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: we have to make it bigger. And think about the
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: stakes of the Supreme Court. If Donald Trump wins, he
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: will almost certainly get two more appointments. By the end
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: of Trump's term, second term, were he to win, Alito
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: will be, or Thomas will be 82. Alito will be 78.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: They're definitely retiring.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: They're definitely retiring.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: If Trump wins again.
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: And it could be just KBJ, like holding down the fort.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: Justice Sotomayor will be 72 at the end of Trump's term.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: So he will definitely get two appointments. If he has
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: two appointments, that means he will have appointed five Supreme
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: Court justices, all of whom will be around or below
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: the age of 60. when he leaves office, that is
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: a mega court majority that will rule for decades. We
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: can win the next, however many presidential elections and absent
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: something sort of extraordinary happening. Trump's fingerprints will be all
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: over the Supreme court. And so I think we should
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: make this a big issue. And we know this works
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: because in 2016, that vacant justice Scalia seat that McConnell
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: held open was one reason. And you heard this on
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: a lot of focus groups and post-election surveys. that Republicans
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: who did not like Trump at the last minute were
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: willing to hold their nose and vote for Trump because
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: they would care about the Supreme Court. So I think
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: we can do that in reverse. So we should talk
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: about the corruption of the court. We should argue about it.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: We should talk about the stakes. We've got to make
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: it matter to people. Talk about a court that has
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: our freedoms at risk, the court that overturned Roe v. Wade,
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: a court that's going to look at things like contraception,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: marriage equality, a court that under Roberts has almost never,
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: ever ruled against the corporation, gutting workers' rights. We make
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: it matter, people. And one way that we can also
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: do this to ties in with the corruption is to
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: run on and argue for a code of conduct for
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: the Supreme Court, which it does not have one, for
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: rules for financial closure, which they don't really have. and
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: actual accountability for violating those rules. Because these are lifetime points.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: Like I'm a personally a sport of expansion. I'm personally
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: a sport of term limits. That is not something that
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: we're going to be able to get done right now.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: So focus on something that has a huge, a real
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: chance of passing if we have the House and the
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: Senate and a Democratic president to sign it and is
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: incredibly popular even with Republicans. So I think we should
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: talk about it. We have sometimes I just think we
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: have to try to get this election to something bigger.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: And the Supreme Court is about as big as it gets.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: And by the way, Trump, knows what's going on here
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: and is ready to nominate a bunch of really young judges.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: In fact, he just said that at the NRA event
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: in Dallas.
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: Let's listen.
• 40:26
  Speaker 7: Then I called up my people and I said, I
• 40:28
  Speaker 7: have a guy from New York who's an incredible lawyer.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: He's got the right temperament.
• 40:31
  Speaker 7: He'd be a really great judge.
• 40:33
  Speaker 8: Oh, good, sir.
• 40:34
  Speaker 7: How old is he? I said, he's 69, sir. So
• 40:39
  Speaker 7: he's going to be there for two, three, four years.
• 40:42
  Speaker 7: We like people when they're 30. So they're there for
• 40:44
  Speaker 7: 50 years or 40 years. We don't want, and as
• 40:47
  Speaker 7: soon as they said that, I realized, yeah, they're exactly right.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: So, like we said, Thomas and Alito, if he wins,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: are retiring. They'll get replaced with, you know, 40-year-old, and
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: then it will still be 6'3. If Sotomayor has to retire,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: either for health reasons or other reasons, then it's a
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: 7'2 majority. And John Roberts, in that majority, would be
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: the only one over 60 years old.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: And what counts as a lib.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: And what counts as a lib, yeah. And just so
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: people know, like, That means like for the next 20, 30,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: 40 years, even if we elect a Democratic president, a
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Democratic Congress, the court would strike down any laws they
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: pass to protect abortion access, limit climate pollution, protect voting rights,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: reduce gun violence, limit the power of corporations, limit the
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: influence of money in politics. And it's like, it's just,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: that's it. That's 20 or 30 years. And like, if
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: you think that like consigning yourself and your children and
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: your children's children to that future is worth, not voting
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: for Joe Biden because you're upset with him over inflation
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: or Gaza or any other issue, then like you absolutely
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: have the right to make that choice. But you should
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: know that that is a choice that you are making
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: and you are contributing to that.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: Just to put some math on this, this is a
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: study I used to use all the time. When Brett
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: Kavanaugh is the age that Ruth Bader Ginsburg was when
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: she died, my daughter will be in her mid thirties.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: She turns six on Thursday.
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: That's how long.
• 42:15
  Speaker 8: Oof.
• 42:16
  Speaker 6: Republicans historically have done a great job of helping their
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: voters understand why this matters so much.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: And we have not.
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: Do you think that's almost entirely been because it's a
• 42:27
  Speaker 6: abortion related sort of conservative religious message from their side
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: and therefore is our path to doing the same, just
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: making it about abortion access?
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that's a huge part of it.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, it is Roe was what galvanized Republicans around
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: the court. And Dobbs is what is galvanizing Democrats around
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: the court. But what we have to do, and we
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: did a great job of that in 2022, and abortion
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: remains a top issue for a huge swath of voters.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: But we know from the polling that the electorate could
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: be 40% larger in 2024 than it was in 2022.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: And among that 40%, abortion is a less salient issue
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: for them. Just because they are less, they are not
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: necessarily more conservative on the issue than the population at large.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: They're just as pro-abortion access as everyone else, but they're
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: less politically engaged, less thinking about it. And there's that,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: I think it's 17% of voters in the Airtime Santa
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: poll who blamed Joe Biden for the overturning of the problem.
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: I know, I know.
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: And these are people that we can go get and
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: we can raise that sentence, but you have to talk
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: about it, right? It has to be top of the issue.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: And that's why, like, even that list of issues, I
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: think you've got to, like, any issue you care about,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: almost any issue you care about is going to be
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: something that the Supreme Court could strike down from a
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Democratic president, take an executive action, Democratic Congress passing a law.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just, and again, it's not like a
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: bunch of John Roberts who is no moderate, but is
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: at least like not as crazy.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Oh, you mean the John Roberts who right now is
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: helping Donald Trump avoid prosecution for trying to overthrow the
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: government on January 6th?
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: You know what? No upside down flag in front of
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: his house.
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: So there you go.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: That's what we're dealing with right now. So yeah, it is,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: I do think that you have to make it, you
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: have to, it takes a little doing because you have
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: to educate people on like, this is what the Supreme
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Court can do and these are the laws that could
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: strike down. But I totally agree that it's the, it's a,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: It's an important issue to run on and we should
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: make it a big deal.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: And this one Joe Biden has been hesitant to run
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: on in the past because he's such a court institutionalist
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: from his time with the Judiciary Committee. It's why he
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: has been very hesitant on criticizing the court, very hesitant
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: on pushing for coming out in support of like code
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: of ethics and those sorts of things. Certainly on more
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: aggressive notions like expansion and term limits. But it would
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: be a little bit out of his previous practice to
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: talk about it more, but I certainly hope he does.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Well, it's like he doesn't even have to talk about
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: expansion in court.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: No, no, no. That's why I picked the Code of
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: Conduct because I think that is a place where we
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: all agree.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Even the Code of Conduct aside, all he has to
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: say is like, you elect me. I'm going to replace
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: these judges with more progressive judges. Look what I've done
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: in the federal court already. He has a record here.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Look what I did with Katonji Brown Jackson. You elect Trump.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: We're fucked.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: I think the corruption message, I don't think Joe Biden
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: is going to call the court corrupt. And I understand
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: his natural instinct did not do that. But I think
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: the rest of us can and should. And Sheldon Whitehouse
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: and others who are very smart on these issues have
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: done it. But I think that's an important part of
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: the message is he gets at that sort of anti-establishment,
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: anti-corruption message that is powerful. It's a way for us
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: to do that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 6: Well, and also, I think Biden isn't the only one
• 45:20
  Speaker 6: who sometimes feels like he's speaking about a bygone era
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: in terms of the judicial system. I mean, Senator Dick
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: Durbin- very recently talked about reinstating the blue slip system,
• 45:32
  Speaker 6: which allows the Senate delegation from a state to basically
• 45:37
  Speaker 6: veto certain judicial nominees. And that's the dumbest idea I've
• 45:42
  Speaker 6: ever heard. Why would we consider bringing back the blue
• 45:44
  Speaker 6: slip process? Why would we give Republicans an opportunity to
• 45:48
  Speaker 6: just veto left and right Joe Biden's judicial nominees? We
• 45:53
  Speaker 6: got to We've got to balance out the courts here.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to tell you this right now, that
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: if Donald Trump wins the White House and the Republicans
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: take the Senate, I'm going to be wearing a Bring
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Back the Blue Slip t-shirt.
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and he will find you and beat you up.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be like, restore the nerves that crooked.com stores.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: And by the way, filibuster? The filibuster's kind of awesome.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: I love the filibuster.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: The difference there is they'll laugh in your face and
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: you'll do it.
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: All right, before we go, we here at Pod Save
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: America just want to wish a happy 80th birthday to
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Rudy Giuliani, who received the best gift of all from...
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: an unexpected guest at his big Palm Springs party Friday night,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: a criminal indictment for trying to overturn the 2020 election
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: in Arizona. The New York Post reported that when Giuliani
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: was served towards the end of his party, guests were
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: screaming and crying. Which I find so funny. How did
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: they find him? You may be wondering. Well, it may
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: have had something to do with a tweet Giuliani posted
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: from the party, from the party, with a picture of
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: him surrounded by a bunch of young women. in which
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: he taunted the Arizona Attorney General by writing in the tweet,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: if Arizona authorities can't find me by tomorrow morning, they
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: must dismiss the indictment.
• 47:03
  Speaker 6: I heard that.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Dumbest fucking criminals.
• 47:05
  Speaker 6: I read somewhere that the person who served him can
• 47:08
  Speaker 6: be seen in the background of the clip singing him
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: happy birthday.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you were at a party, it's what.
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: You should do.
• 47:14
  Speaker 6: I don't feel bad for Rudy Giuliani, and I never will.
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: I did read all about this and think, I pray
• 47:20
  Speaker 6: to God that if I'm lucky enough to make it
• 47:22
  Speaker 6: to 80 years old, I spend my birthday with my
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: family and my friends and not on like a drunk
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: live stream with agit prop white nationalist, uh, alt-right Santa Claus,
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: Steve Bannon, which it's just like the saddest scene ever.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: And I hope you're not getting served.
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, there's that too. I'd rather go to jail
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: than hang out with Steve Bannon on my birthday.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: I think that's a choice you may have.
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: That's a choice we all might have.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Um, And in case you guys were worried about Rudy
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: living out the rest of his life as a penniless convict,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: not to fear. He's got a brand new business venture
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: you guys might want to invest in.
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: Let's listen.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: You all know I stand by the truth.
• 47:59
  Speaker 8: And if I put my name on something, I truly
• 48:02
  Speaker 8: believe in it. Today, I'm thrilled to introduce you to
• 48:05
  Speaker 8: something I'm incredibly proud of.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: My own brand of organic specialty coffee, Rudy Coffee.
• 48:11
  Speaker 8: Believe me when I say it's the best coffee you'll
• 48:14
  Speaker 8: ever try. It's smooth, rich, chocolatey, and gentle on your stomach.
• 48:20
  Speaker 8: It's so good, I even recommend drinking it black.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Now look, who are we to judge selling cricket coffee here?
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: But I don't know if we've ever sold it as well.
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: As Rudy sold it.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, not even close.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: He put his heart in it. It goes on, by
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: the way, for like 30, 40 seconds, this video. It's
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: very sad.
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: I'm surprised you didn't call it Ground Zero Coffee.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: Or like Twin Tower Coffee.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: Ground Zero was a great pun. You lost me at
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: Twin Tower Coffee.
• 48:48
  Speaker 10: Ground Zero?
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Stick with the Ground Zero. Rudy, we're here for you.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: I would like to have been in the original marketing meeting.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: They were like, here's what we need.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: We need.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: People who believe the election was stolen, but also like
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: their coffee organic and also have gut problems.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I was just going to say, yeah, it's the gut problems.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: It's the classic gut problem ad, which again, we read
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: plenty of here.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: 9-11 coffee. Oh, I'm sorry.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: I'm the one dining out on 9-11, not Rudy Giuliani.
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: Come on.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: I kept trying to come up with a January 6th
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: coffee pump.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: I know. It's tough to think of it on the spot.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: Capital Grounds.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: That's pretty good.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: Capital Grounds.
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: I like that.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: If you guys have a name for Rudy Giuliani's coffee brand,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: please send them in. We'd love to hear them. Tweet
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: them at us. So anyway, that's Rudy Giuliani. He's broke.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: He's maybe going to jail, but he's still selling coffee.
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: Shout out to our buddy, Mike Gottlieb, who helped to
• 49:44
  Speaker 6: win the case against him.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right.
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: It's going to be getting to share.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: His clients are going to be getting to share that
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: Rudy Coffee profit. That's exactly right.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Gottlieb is the lawyer that won the defamation case, our
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: good pal from the White House days. All right, one
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: last thing before we go. We've teamed up with The
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Branch for a great new limited series, Killing Justice. It's
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: hosted by our friend Ravi Gupta, and it's a story
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: about an Indian judge who died under mysterious circumstances in
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: how his family started questioning the official story, and India's
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: hyper-polarized politics in this increasingly critical moment. You can listen
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: to the Killing Justice trailer now on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: And don't miss the two-episode premiere on May 27th. For
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: ad-free episodes, join the Friends of the Pod community at crooked.com
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: slash friends. All right, that's all we got for today. Dan,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: glad you could make it.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: Fun to be here. It's great to have.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: You fill in for Lovett, who we all miss and
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: we hope is coming back at some point.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: Maybe.
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: I think you said you pray Lovett last week? Yeah.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: I like that.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that you caught that. I've been working on
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: that one for a while.
• 50:42
  Speaker 7: Anyway.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: All right. We'll be back on Wednesday with a brand
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: new episode. Bye, guys.
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: Bye, everyone.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: If you want to get ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at crooked.com
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: slash friends. And if you're already doom-scrolling, don't forget to
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: follow us at Pod Save America on Instagram, Twitter, and
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and more. Plus,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: a review. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Our show is produced by Olivia Martinez and David Toledo.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Farrah Safari. Kira
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Wakim is our senior producer. Reid Cherlin is our executive producer.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Writing support by Hallie Kiefer. Madeline
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroat
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: is our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: David Tolles, Kiril Pallaviv, and Molly Lobel.