Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1255 - Helping Your Kids Understand Sex, Puberty & Consent – Featuring Michelle Mitchell

Transcript

#1255 - Helping Your Kids Understand Sex, Puberty & Consent – Featuring Michelle Mitchell · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:06
Speaker 1: Hey mum, where do babies come from?
0:09
Speaker 2: Hey?
0:09
Speaker 1: Dad? How did my brother end up in our family?
0:14
Speaker 3: These are the questions that so many parents don't really
0:17
Speaker 3: know how to answer. Like we know how to answer them,
0:19
Speaker 3: but when our child comes to us and ask the
0:21
Speaker 3: question on the spot, usually in front of friends at
0:23
Speaker 3: a barbecue, around the dining table, we take a big,
0:26
Speaker 3: deep breath and wonder how do we get through this
0:29
Speaker 3: next couple of moments with our child. Today on the
0:32
Speaker 3: Happy Families podcast, I'm speaking with Michelle Mitchell, the author
0:35
Speaker 3: of Where do Babies Come From?
0:37
Speaker 1: And Other questions children aged eight to twelve ask.
0:40
Speaker 3: This is the Happy Family's podcast, Real Parenting Solutions, every
0:42
Speaker 3: day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. My name is
0:46
Speaker 3: Justin Coulson, and today Michelle Mitchell, the author of the book,
0:48
Speaker 3: joins me to talk about it. Michelle, has it ever
0:51
Speaker 3: happened to you? Did either of your two boys walk
0:53
Speaker 3: up to you and say, hey, Mom, I need to.
0:55
Speaker 2: Know do you know what I actually ask on this
0:58
Speaker 2: the other day? And I don't even know how this
1:00
Speaker 2: conversation came up, but I said, do you remember us
1:02
Speaker 2: actually having this conversation?
1:04
Speaker 1: And both of them said, Nat, you obviously did a
1:07
Speaker 1: great job.
1:09
Speaker 2: We actually can't imagine or remember it actually being a
1:13
Speaker 2: formal conversation, so we obviously drip fed this information somehow
1:17
Speaker 2: because they do know where babies came from.
1:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, I should just mention as well.
1:24
Speaker 3: By way of intro and bio, Michelle is the convener
1:27
Speaker 3: of the Resilient Kids Conference that travels around the country
1:30
Speaker 3: on an annual basis and dispenses incredible parenting wisdom. And
1:33
Speaker 3: you've also written a couple of, well several other books,
1:35
Speaker 3: including I've got some of them here on my bookshelf Tweens,
1:39
Speaker 3: which is an absolute bestseller and a muster for parents
1:43
Speaker 3: have children in that eight to twelve category. But you've
1:46
Speaker 3: also written The Girl's Guide and The Guy's Guide to Puberty,
1:50
Speaker 3: and my eleven year old daughter Emily.
1:53
Speaker 1: Loves those books.
1:54
Speaker 3: They are literally they're a permanent fixture on our living
1:56
Speaker 3: room floor. She doesn't like the Boys One so much,
1:59
Speaker 3: but she does like Girls One a lot, and we've
2:01
Speaker 3: been over it and over and over it. So when
2:03
Speaker 3: your new one came out, Where do Babies Come From?
2:05
Speaker 3: I instantly contacted you and said, got to have it.
2:08
Speaker 3: Emily's going to need it, and I don't. I don't
2:10
Speaker 3: know a single person in this country or on this
2:13
Speaker 3: planet that I trust more based on what you do
2:15
Speaker 3: with the Purity books to help parents have this conversation
2:19
Speaker 3: with their children.
2:21
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful and I loved getting your text message,
2:24
Speaker 2: like my daughter's so excited to read this, and I
2:27
Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's so beautiful to hear that they're
2:29
Speaker 2: actually excited about diving into a book like this. And
2:33
Speaker 2: I have twenty five years of really funny stories and
2:37
Speaker 2: good jokes and I am not going to die without
2:40
Speaker 2: them being recorded in a book.
2:41
Speaker 1: So Michelle hit me with one, Well tell me one
2:44
Speaker 1: of your jokes.
2:45
Speaker 2: Well, okay, So teeny tiny trouble. That's the baby goes
2:49
Speaker 2: for her first scan and she doesn't want her private
2:53
Speaker 2: parts to be seen, so she hides for the sonographer
2:57
Speaker 2: and instead of getting any look at her private parts,
3:03
Speaker 2: she just gives the sonographer like a big moon. So
3:07
Speaker 2: all the ten year old boys will love that because
3:10
Speaker 2: the baby just moons at the sonographer. Do you get it?
3:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah I do.
3:17
Speaker 3: I was not laughing, I was looking. I was looking
3:20
Speaker 3: for more that is funny. No, I get it. It's funny, Michelle,
3:24
Speaker 3: it's funny.
3:25
Speaker 2: No, And look, the baby says, now, this is what
3:27
Speaker 2: you get a full moon. You've got a bit ten justin.
3:31
Speaker 2: To get into that kind of humor.
3:33
Speaker 1: I need to go through the books.
3:36
Speaker 3: In the body it's funny, yeah, in the book the cartoon,
3:38
Speaker 3: it's funny, yeah, Michelle. Let's make this about my history
3:43
Speaker 3: for a sec. When I was about I think, maybe
3:46
Speaker 3: eleven ten, my mom came home one day. I remember
3:49
Speaker 3: standing in front of the garage of our orange brick
3:53
Speaker 3: home at Niagara Park on the New southwalest Central Coast,
3:56
Speaker 3: top of the driveway, and Mum says, hey, justin quick question,
4:00
Speaker 3: do you know where babies come from? I figured that
4:04
Speaker 3: out by what I'd heard in the playground around about
4:07
Speaker 3: grade three, somewhere between the ages of eight and nine.
4:09
Speaker 3: But of course I lied and said to Mum no,
4:11
Speaker 3: because I thought I might get in trouble if she
4:13
Speaker 3: knew that.
4:14
Speaker 2: I knew right, Mum might think I'm rude. Kids say
4:18
Speaker 2: that to me all the time.
4:19
Speaker 1: Totally that's right, And so I said no.
4:20
Speaker 3: And then she pulled a little book out called where
4:24
Speaker 3: did I Come From? Or Where do I Come From?
4:25
Speaker 1: Or something like that.
4:26
Speaker 3: I mean, it was a classic for decades. And she said, well,
4:30
Speaker 3: I got this book and I thought it might help
4:31
Speaker 3: you to understand things.
4:32
Speaker 1: Would you like to read it with me or would
4:34
Speaker 1: you like to read it on your own?
4:36
Speaker 2: And what did you say?
4:37
Speaker 1: What do you think? I said?
4:39
Speaker 3: Got to be kidding, I'm not reading this with you.
4:40
Speaker 3: I said, of course, I'll read it on my own.
4:42
Speaker 3: I knew I didn't need to read it because I
4:44
Speaker 3: already knew the answers. Nevertheless, I still read it because
4:46
Speaker 3: kids are curious.
4:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
4:49
Speaker 3: Tell me why are we not using where did I
4:52
Speaker 3: come from?
4:53
Speaker 1: Anymore? Why did we need you to write this book?
4:57
Speaker 3: And for what it's worth, I'm a huge fan of
4:59
Speaker 3: what you've done here, But why did you decide it
5:01
Speaker 3: was time for an update after four decades of that
5:04
Speaker 3: one being pretty dominant.
5:06
Speaker 2: There's a few things going on here. This book is
5:09
Speaker 2: for eight to twelve year old so this is a
5:11
Speaker 2: little bit more comprehensive. There's one hundred and fifty six
5:14
Speaker 2: pages here, So this is four kids who are ready
5:18
Speaker 2: for a little bit more of those wrap around topics,
5:21
Speaker 2: who have more extensive questions. I call it that age
5:25
Speaker 2: where they're cognitively ready to be asking questions. So there's
5:29
Speaker 2: a lot more medical information. I find that when I
5:32
Speaker 2: go into schools, boys are just wanting to particularly absorb
5:36
Speaker 2: that medical information about now babies grow, and they just
5:40
Speaker 2: love it. They really really love it. So it's not
5:44
Speaker 2: a picture book like where did I come from?
5:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, with like the mum and the dad hiding under
5:50
Speaker 3: the covers, and you kind of get the sense that
5:51
Speaker 3: the covers are moving a little bit, so there's something
5:53
Speaker 3: going on under there.
5:54
Speaker 2: That's right. The other thing I do is I use
5:56
Speaker 2: medical diagrams, and I think that's really important in this
5:59
Speaker 2: day and age we've got we're talking to our kids
6:02
Speaker 2: a lot more about pornography and the difference between you know,
6:06
Speaker 2: inappropriate maybe images for kids to look at. When I
6:09
Speaker 2: go into schools, I'm very very clear that these are
6:12
Speaker 2: medical diagrams and so you'll see the anatomy and it's
6:15
Speaker 2: a really soft way to explain sexual intercourse to kids.
6:19
Speaker 2: So if you go on my shop page, you'll actually
6:22
Speaker 2: see how I have done that and why I do
6:25
Speaker 2: that in this day and age, So that's another key difference.
6:29
Speaker 2: The other difference that a lot of people don't know
6:32
Speaker 2: is there's really the latest research has changed as well.
6:35
Speaker 2: We used to say that it was the fastest, strongest
6:37
Speaker 2: sperm that reached the shell of that egg and.
6:40
Speaker 4: Cracked into the shell of that egg. That actually sort
6:42
Speaker 4: of won that shell that egg, but it's actually not.
6:46
Speaker 4: The egg gets a final say on which sperm penetrates
6:50
Speaker 4: at shell, and that is new research. And you'll see
6:55
Speaker 4: in the comics that is really reflected.
6:58
Speaker 2: The egg actually says I knew I was popular, but
7:00
Speaker 2: this is slightly overwhelming. So you can see that the
7:04
Speaker 2: egg makes that's good.
7:05
Speaker 4: I really like that, all right, I should have been
7:10
Speaker 4: a little funny and start.
7:11
Speaker 2: I want our kids to say, I'm smart enough not
7:14
Speaker 2: to be fooled. I'm confident enough to make wise decisions,
7:18
Speaker 2: and I'm educated enough to know how wonderful my body is.
7:22
Speaker 2: And our kids just don't need to know. I guess
7:25
Speaker 2: the birds and the bees chat anymore. There's a whole
7:28
Speaker 2: lot of wrap around values that need to come with
7:31
Speaker 2: these conversations. So this book is not just a pitch book.
7:36
Speaker 3: I really want to spend some time on the wrap
7:38
Speaker 3: around values concept. I feel quite the same. I think
7:41
Speaker 3: that when we separate emotional intimacy from physical intimacy, we
7:47
Speaker 3: end up with transactional intimate. Well, it's not even intimate anymore,
7:52
Speaker 3: is it. It becomes a transactional rather than intimate moment. It
7:54
Speaker 3: takes away from the significance and even the sacredness of
7:58
Speaker 3: that intimate moment by simply making it performative recreational. I
8:03
Speaker 3: don't think that we should be separating emotion emotional intimacy
8:08
Speaker 3: from what we might call physical intimacy, and yet that's
8:11
Speaker 3: what we typically do when we have a birds and
8:12
Speaker 3: bees conversation. So let's step into that for a minute.
8:16
Speaker 3: How do you convey that these wrap around ideas and
8:19
Speaker 3: values in a book that's written for eight to twelve
8:22
Speaker 3: year olds to literally pick up and flick through themselves
8:25
Speaker 3: to get this information as much as we want parents
8:28
Speaker 3: to read it with them.
8:29
Speaker 2: Lovely, and this comes from our heart first, doesn't it. It
8:32
Speaker 2: comes from who we are, And it's counter to a
8:35
Speaker 2: lot of the imagery that they're seeing in the movie.
8:38
Speaker 2: So their idea of what sex is is coming from
8:42
Speaker 2: a lot of like quick grabs and flicks that they're
8:45
Speaker 2: even getting in advertising or little snippets they're seeing in
8:47
Speaker 2: the movies. So it is really when you're starting to
8:52
Speaker 2: actually sit next to a kid and actually explain the
8:54
Speaker 2: details of it. A lot of kids are going, I
8:56
Speaker 2: never want that to happen to my body. And one
8:59
Speaker 2: of the biggest things I actually say back to kids is,
9:01
Speaker 2: you know what the best news is, if you don't
9:03
Speaker 2: ever want that to happen to your body, you don't
9:06
Speaker 2: have to because guess what, anything to do with sense
9:09
Speaker 2: is one hundred percent your choice, and you don't have
9:12
Speaker 2: to make that decision now. This is a decision you
9:14
Speaker 2: make when you are much, much, much older, because neither
9:17
Speaker 2: your body or your heart is ready to make that
9:20
Speaker 2: decision right now.
9:21
Speaker 1: I love that.
9:22
Speaker 3: In the interest of preserving anonymity for my children, but
9:24
Speaker 3: still sharing a great story. Just in the last couple
9:27
Speaker 3: of weeks, one of my children, who is definitely in
9:30
Speaker 3: an age group where it's appropriate to be having curiosity
9:34
Speaker 3: and conversations in this in this vein, just said to me,
9:38
Speaker 3: I can't believe. I can't believe that that's what you
9:41
Speaker 3: and mum had to do so that we could be conceived.
9:44
Speaker 3: And she just said, I really like She was honest.
9:47
Speaker 3: She said, I'm curious and I'm interested, but I really
9:50
Speaker 3: really don't like anything about this right now. And I
9:54
Speaker 3: looked at her and I gave her a great big
9:56
Speaker 3: hug and I said, and that's just right for you
9:59
Speaker 3: right now. At some point that will change, but right now,
10:01
Speaker 3: that's where you should be, and let's celebrate that. And
10:05
Speaker 3: you can still ask me anything. We can still talk
10:07
Speaker 3: about anything, because the curiosity is natural and normal and
10:10
Speaker 3: I'd rather you ask me than ask Google.
10:12
Speaker 2: And justin I love that. And when I stand up
10:14
Speaker 2: in front of say, just say grade sixers and they
10:18
Speaker 2: feel awkward and they feel nervous, and you know, they're
10:21
Speaker 2: all like, oh, what she's going to say? I actually
10:24
Speaker 2: really validate that feeling. And I say, I'm so glad
10:27
Speaker 2: you feel like that, because that feeling right there is
10:31
Speaker 2: actually designed to protect you in life. If a stranger
10:35
Speaker 2: was in front of you wanting to talk to you
10:38
Speaker 2: about your body or anything to do with sex, and
10:43
Speaker 2: if it was anyone other than a safe, trusted person
10:46
Speaker 2: who had like I have to tell I tell them
10:49
Speaker 2: that I've had to get signed off by you know,
10:51
Speaker 2: the Australian government to be able to speak about this
10:54
Speaker 2: in schools, and then your parents have had to say
10:56
Speaker 2: that they believe I'm a trusted adult. And then I
10:59
Speaker 2: have to have peaches in this room who are going
11:02
Speaker 2: to listen to every word and they are going to
11:04
Speaker 2: fly down these aisles and grab me by the neck
11:07
Speaker 2: and drag me out if I say one word wrong.
11:10
Speaker 2: You know, I really hype it up because I want
11:13
Speaker 2: them to know that it's a job that adults take
11:16
Speaker 2: very seriously. And the reason why they're nervous is because
11:20
Speaker 2: I'm about to step into a space that's very sacred,
11:24
Speaker 2: and so I hope this book actually transfers that as well.
11:28
Speaker 2: And the whole first chapter is about them becoming the
11:31
Speaker 2: book boss, and the book boss actually gives them a
11:36
Speaker 2: whole list of questions to work through with their trusted adults,
11:39
Speaker 2: which gives them autonomy and choice over how they want
11:43
Speaker 2: to have these conversations.
11:44
Speaker 1: Yeah.
11:45
Speaker 2: Perfect, Yeah, And I think that to me was actually
11:48
Speaker 2: a really important start point. So I actually say to them,
11:53
Speaker 2: you know, how do you want to read this book?
11:55
Speaker 2: Choose your level of privacy. Do you want to have
11:57
Speaker 2: a look at this book first by yourself or with
12:00
Speaker 2: you like to read it side by side with your
12:01
Speaker 2: trusted adults. How are you most comfortable find the best time?
12:06
Speaker 2: You know, where do you want to actually read the book,
12:10
Speaker 2: Let's talk about how you might handle any big feelings now.
12:13
Speaker 2: So in other words, I meet kids that when they
12:17
Speaker 2: actually do read parts of the book, they might go
12:20
Speaker 2: away and actually do feel a little bit anxious, And
12:22
Speaker 2: I want them to have a plan for that now.
12:24
Speaker 2: So let's agree together. I say here that if you
12:27
Speaker 2: have any awkward feelings that you're not just going to
12:30
Speaker 2: talk to a friend or someone who is at school.
12:34
Speaker 2: Friends are great for playing computer games, but not great
12:36
Speaker 2: for answering life's important questions. So we go through that
12:40
Speaker 2: before we start making it memorable. How about this one?
12:44
Speaker 2: If you're going to have a special grown up conversation,
12:47
Speaker 2: you may as well make it memorable. I personally think
12:50
Speaker 2: hot chocolate and dunking biscuits will be the perfect addition
12:53
Speaker 2: to this book. Or there's a grander idea. How about
12:57
Speaker 2: an increase in your weekly pocket money in it exchange
13:00
Speaker 2: for some talking time. Surely that's not too much to ask,
13:03
Speaker 2: is it? What ideas do you have? So this is
13:06
Speaker 2: stuff that they're actually negotiating with you, justin Colson, And
13:10
Speaker 2: then one last thing, is there anything else on their mind?
13:14
Speaker 2: So this is about ownership? Now that might seem in
13:19
Speaker 2: some ways, surely they don't need to have this big
13:22
Speaker 2: setup before we talk to them about the birds and
13:25
Speaker 2: the bees. Yes, they do, because this is about consent,
13:29
Speaker 2: This is about respect, This is about them having a say,
13:34
Speaker 2: as an eight, nine, ten year old, and then we're
13:37
Speaker 2: going to talk about the qualities of trusted adults, and
13:40
Speaker 2: then we're going to lead into, you know, this soft
13:43
Speaker 2: start where they're going to have such empowerment before we
13:47
Speaker 2: get to some of the more heavy duty topics that
13:50
Speaker 2: we need to.
13:52
Speaker 3: Michelle, when I have a look at what limited data
13:55
Speaker 3: we have, and there's very little data on this that
13:56
Speaker 3: I've been able to find, it seems that a lot
13:59
Speaker 3: of parents are very uncomfortable to talk with their children
14:03
Speaker 3: about this, and many parents would rather not do it
14:05
Speaker 3: at all. There are also some cultural differences, Okay, so
14:11
Speaker 3: people from one culture may be less likely to want
14:14
Speaker 3: to have this conversation than people from other cultures.
14:16
Speaker 1: Like this, this is a real thing. Why is that?
14:19
Speaker 3: I mean we over complicating it. Is it supposed to
14:21
Speaker 3: be something that we're nervous about. Why are so many
14:25
Speaker 3: parents so nervous about talking about intimacy, physical intimacy, emotional intimacy,
14:31
Speaker 3: sexual intercourse, procreation.
14:33
Speaker 2: There's so many things we didn't get it modeled very well.
14:36
Speaker 2: I think a lot of us have had bad sexual
14:38
Speaker 2: experiences as well, and so you know that comes into play.
14:43
Speaker 2: I think we don't want to get it wrong either,
14:46
Speaker 2: and we're scared of not sort of knowing what to
14:48
Speaker 2: say if our kids ask us an awkward question. I
14:50
Speaker 2: think the cultural thing is real. In the book, I
14:53
Speaker 2: talk about different talking styles that parents have, and I
14:57
Speaker 2: say to the kids, it doesn't matter how your family
15:00
Speaker 2: first to talk. Some families talk around the dinner table
15:03
Speaker 2: openly and others talk really privately. As long as your
15:07
Speaker 2: parents are talking, it doesn't matter how they're talking. And
15:11
Speaker 2: I think that's a really important message for parents to
15:14
Speaker 2: take away as well, because I meet a lot of
15:17
Speaker 2: parents in my parent nights that just, you know, they
15:19
Speaker 2: just say, look, we're not the kind of family that
15:21
Speaker 2: would talk openly about this across the dinner table. And
15:24
Speaker 2: I say to parents, you know what, as long as
15:26
Speaker 2: you are talking to your kids, it is okay. I
15:30
Speaker 2: say to parents, just please don't do this. Don't just
15:33
Speaker 2: slap the book on their bed. Run for your life,
15:35
Speaker 2: and say, please come to me if you have any questions.
15:38
Speaker 2: That's normally what we I know, that's what we do.
15:42
Speaker 2: But I think what we're doing is we're putting too
15:44
Speaker 2: much responsibility on our kids shoulders when that really is
15:48
Speaker 2: too much for them, especially in this day and age.
15:52
Speaker 2: What we want to say is this book is an
15:54
Speaker 2: extension of me. So we say, I've read this book.
15:57
Speaker 2: I thought it was pretty funny. You know, Page a
15:59
Speaker 2: hunter in fifty seven was my favorite. That's the mooning
16:03
Speaker 2: page just then. I didn't even get one laugh out
16:06
Speaker 2: of you about But tell me what you think of it.
16:10
Speaker 2: Or you know, there's this talk at school coming up soon,
16:13
Speaker 2: and how about you and I have some chats before
16:16
Speaker 2: that talk comes to your school. You know, there's all
16:19
Speaker 2: sorts of ways to sort of initiate this, but it's
16:23
Speaker 2: just so we're not putting too much on our kids
16:25
Speaker 2: shoulders at a time in their life where they're not ready.
16:28
Speaker 2: You're not the research sense. If they haven't started asking
16:31
Speaker 2: questions by the time they're ten, it's not that they
16:34
Speaker 2: don't have questions, it's that they're too uncomfortable to ask.
16:38
Speaker 2: So it's on us to open the door.
16:48
Speaker 3: Michelle, what I love about the puberty books is, I
16:52
Speaker 3: know how to talk to my kids about this stuff.
16:54
Speaker 3: But the books give me a framework, they give me
16:57
Speaker 3: a structure, they give me a sequence, and they just
17:00
Speaker 3: vibe so much leverage into the conversation. My sense is
17:05
Speaker 3: that where the babies come from allows that same. It
17:10
Speaker 3: changes the dialogue. It gives us the structure, It gives
17:13
Speaker 3: us the direction, it gives us the It gives us
17:15
Speaker 3: the thing to point out and say, hey, well, let's
17:17
Speaker 3: talk about this page, or let's talk about this chapter,
17:19
Speaker 3: let's talk about this theme. It changes the quality, the
17:24
Speaker 3: tenor the experience of the conversation that we have with
17:26
Speaker 3: our children. The other thing that really stands out to
17:29
Speaker 3: me is important here is that, as you said, this
17:31
Speaker 3: is a page, that this is a book with more
17:33
Speaker 3: than one hundred and fifty pages in it, which means
17:36
Speaker 3: that you can't really just sit down and say, all right,
17:38
Speaker 3: well we've had the talk.
17:39
Speaker 2: No, and it's two hundred and fifty justin and kids
17:43
Speaker 2: can come back to this time and time again. Now
17:45
Speaker 2: remember it's broken up with comics. There's really big size
17:48
Speaker 2: font there's a little bit on cyber safety, there's a
17:52
Speaker 2: little bit on sexual consent and body safety. So it's
17:55
Speaker 2: got these wrap around values in it as well. There's
17:58
Speaker 2: a lot about like you know, the three trimesters and
18:02
Speaker 2: the baby growing, and it's really cute and fun, but
18:05
Speaker 2: it's stuff that kids can dip in and out of.
18:08
Speaker 2: And I think when we just talk to kids and
18:11
Speaker 2: they can't dip in and out of that and refresh
18:14
Speaker 2: their memory and come back to the facts quite as easily.
18:18
Speaker 3: I'm an ambassador for the federal Government's Consent Can't Wait campaign,
18:22
Speaker 3: and you've raised consent a couple of times in this discussion.
18:26
Speaker 3: So let's say that we're talking about eight to Twelve's right,
18:28
Speaker 3: these are kids who they're far too young to be
18:31
Speaker 3: involved in any kind of physical intimacy, but the consent
18:34
Speaker 3: conversation still matters. And the overwhelming data that we see
18:37
Speaker 3: through the federal government's campaign and their research is that
18:40
Speaker 3: parents don't know how to talk about consent generally, but
18:43
Speaker 3: they especially don't know what to say to younger children
18:45
Speaker 3: because they feel like consent is only about physical intimacy.
18:48
Speaker 3: They don't realize that concent is a much broader conversation.
18:51
Speaker 3: So how are you introducing it in the book and
18:53
Speaker 3: what can parents do in that specific zone? Because it
18:58
Speaker 3: is to me the most important conversations we can be
19:01
Speaker 3: having right now.
19:02
Speaker 2: To me, it's a much broader conversation than anything to
19:05
Speaker 2: do with sex, and it's almost it's almost a completely
19:09
Speaker 2: separate conversation that then heats up as our kids get older.
19:14
Speaker 2: But even those small things like giving our kids, you know,
19:17
Speaker 2: that real say in you know, making sure they're have
19:24
Speaker 2: the same weather, to keep their bathroom door closed when
19:27
Speaker 2: they're having a shower, or it's not okay for their
19:32
Speaker 2: little brother to walk in and out of the room
19:34
Speaker 2: if they're getting changed. It's simple things like that in
19:37
Speaker 2: our house that sometimes we're like, oh, it's not a
19:39
Speaker 2: big deal, but our kids hit eleven and get really
19:42
Speaker 2: self conscious and it is a really big deal to them.
19:45
Speaker 2: And I think it's just making sure that our kids
19:48
Speaker 2: get that voice and that say and that respect the
19:51
Speaker 2: moment that they vocalize it in our homes. I think
19:55
Speaker 2: that's very on a very practical level. When I'm speaking
19:58
Speaker 2: to kids in schools, make sure that they are really
20:01
Speaker 2: clear that sex is not for kids. It's for someone
20:03
Speaker 2: that you love, trust, and it's a very private thing
20:08
Speaker 2: because it involves your body. And you can imagine how
20:11
Speaker 2: serious that is and because they're imagining then their physical body,
20:16
Speaker 2: they're actually feeling the weight of that. And I want
20:19
Speaker 2: them to know that their bodies are important. I want
20:23
Speaker 2: them to know that they're valuable. And the moment kids
20:27
Speaker 2: are ready to get this information update and they really
20:30
Speaker 2: digest the seriousness of that, that's the moment that I
20:34
Speaker 2: think they're ready to really understand that, hey, your precious
20:37
Speaker 2: body needs to be protected and that there gives you
20:40
Speaker 2: an inroad to have some of those conversations.
20:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love this.
20:44
Speaker 3: One of the one of the consent conversations that I
20:47
Speaker 3: lean on pretty heavily is that when my daughters were young,
20:50
Speaker 3: obviously six daughters, so I'd take them for a bath
20:54
Speaker 3: right like they it's time for bath, and Kylie would say,
20:56
Speaker 3: can you go and scrub the kids because I'm doing
20:59
Speaker 3: this thing or that thing there.
21:00
Speaker 1: We were out numbered, so I would do whatever I
21:02
Speaker 1: was asked to do.
21:03
Speaker 3: And as a father, as much as some people might
21:06
Speaker 3: raise their eyes eyebrows at this, I used to love
21:09
Speaker 3: bathing my kids like it was sacred time. I got
21:13
Speaker 3: to be with them and there's that skin to skin
21:15
Speaker 3: and it's.
21:16
Speaker 1: Just really really great.
21:16
Speaker 3: So as they got older and I no longer had
21:19
Speaker 3: to bath them with the same level of input, I'd
21:23
Speaker 3: still have to be there to keep them safe. And
21:24
Speaker 3: then as they got older again I was just there
21:26
Speaker 3: basically to make sure they scrubbed themselves, because sometimes they'd
21:28
Speaker 3: sit in the bath for twenty five minutes and never
21:30
Speaker 3: touch the soap. But even from a young age, I
21:34
Speaker 3: would say to them, Okay, would you like to scrub
21:36
Speaker 3: yourself or do you want dad to do it? And
21:39
Speaker 3: specifically around their private part to their body, I would say,
21:42
Speaker 3: would you like to scrub there or would you like
21:43
Speaker 3: dad too? And I just sort of highlight to parents
21:48
Speaker 3: this is consent. You're just checking in is it okay
21:51
Speaker 3: for me to do this or would you rather? How
21:53
Speaker 3: do you want this to play out? Now with adolescents
21:57
Speaker 3: and kids in their twenties, I will get consent before
22:01
Speaker 3: I share my opinion. So I say, hey, I've got
22:04
Speaker 3: an idea. Would you be open to hearing it or
22:05
Speaker 3: would you rather that I keep this one to myself.
22:07
Speaker 2: I think that's actually very very good with girls too,
22:12
Speaker 2: and knowing you too, justin knowing you, I think that's
22:15
Speaker 2: a very good idea.
22:17
Speaker 3: Because I do like to share my opinions, right that's
22:19
Speaker 3: what you're saying. I got the feeling that's what you're
22:21
Speaker 3: pointing at. But what I find as well is that
22:25
Speaker 3: once consent is given, there's just a wonderful acceptance. There's
22:31
Speaker 3: a respect, there's an openness, and it works. Consent is
22:34
Speaker 3: about so much more than just what happens between two
22:37
Speaker 3: people in a physical a physical way. I'm really glad
22:39
Speaker 3: that you shared what you did there, Michelle. I have
22:41
Speaker 3: a couple of other quick questions for you about what's
22:44
Speaker 3: in the book. There's a really big part of this
22:48
Speaker 3: book that is about identity. Now, before I ask you
22:52
Speaker 3: about why. Many years ago, when I put together my
22:55
Speaker 3: Resilience presentation, the first thing that I've put in there
22:59
Speaker 3: was kids need to know who they are. They need
23:02
Speaker 3: to know whose they are, They need to understand their
23:04
Speaker 3: family story, they need to know their identity. Because the
23:07
Speaker 3: more they know who they are, the more resilient they're
23:10
Speaker 3: able to be, the stronger they can be. They've got
23:12
Speaker 3: roots that will hold them in place when those fierce
23:14
Speaker 3: winds blow. Every time I share that, people kind of go, oh, yeah,
23:19
Speaker 3: I would thought resilience was about doing hard things, But
23:21
Speaker 3: when you know who you are, that works in the
23:24
Speaker 3: context of teaching kids about procreation.
23:28
Speaker 1: Where does identity fit? Why did you put that there?
23:31
Speaker 2: Oh, And there's a difference between where babies come from
23:34
Speaker 2: and your family story, and it is and in the
23:38
Speaker 2: context of respective people, in the context of consent, in
23:42
Speaker 2: the context of some of these values we've been talking about.
23:45
Speaker 2: Even when a child walks into a classroom of twenty
23:48
Speaker 2: seven other kids, they actually have to understand that everyone
23:52
Speaker 2: has a different story. I have some really dear friends
23:55
Speaker 2: that have adopted to beautiful boys, and they are at
23:59
Speaker 2: the age where they were ready to have this conversation
24:02
Speaker 2: in an information update type of way with their boys,
24:06
Speaker 2: and I wanted to make sure this was a book
24:08
Speaker 2: that those boys. I'm going to cry justin that those
24:14
Speaker 2: boys would just feel just as loved, just as respected,
24:20
Speaker 2: and just as valued and honored as any other child
24:24
Speaker 2: on the planet. And their those boys' mother was too
24:28
Speaker 2: ill to take care of them. And you know, they
24:33
Speaker 2: were from a third world country, and so much trauma
24:37
Speaker 2: for a child to come out of. Why would you
24:40
Speaker 2: ever want a conversation like this to add to their trauma.
24:44
Speaker 2: So every page of this book, in my mind, I'm
24:48
Speaker 2: reading it through the eyes of a child who had
24:53
Speaker 2: complex family stories. And you know my working history justin
24:57
Speaker 2: you know that I've worked with a child's safety, i
25:00
Speaker 2: worked with refugee families. I've worked with so many diverse
25:04
Speaker 2: family situations, and I want to honor every child. And
25:08
Speaker 2: so I guess there's three superstars in the story. There's
25:11
Speaker 2: a uterus, there's an egg, and there's a sperm. But
25:14
Speaker 2: then there's a family story that wraps around that. And
25:17
Speaker 2: the trusted adults in children's lives are the real heroes
25:21
Speaker 2: that love and bring the security and safety around a
25:24
Speaker 2: child's life. And there's fifty questions that kids answer in
25:30
Speaker 2: a part of this book, like a journal activity, and
25:32
Speaker 2: I tell them that these questions are really tricky and
25:35
Speaker 2: it's unlikely that they're going to get an answer to
25:38
Speaker 2: every single one of these questions. But for some kids,
25:42
Speaker 2: they're going to be on like a bit of a
25:43
Speaker 2: treasure hunt to see how much that they can find
25:45
Speaker 2: out about who they are with the help of the
25:48
Speaker 2: adults in their lives.
25:50
Speaker 3: Really appreciate sharing that, Michelle. As as we draw this
25:52
Speaker 3: conversation to a close, I want to pick up on
25:56
Speaker 3: a theme that underscored much of what you just said
26:00
Speaker 3: and that is the role of parent, the need for
26:03
Speaker 3: parents to provide security and safety and to support their
26:07
Speaker 3: children as they figure out who they are and they
26:10
Speaker 3: embark on what will ultimately hopefully be a really fulfilling
26:14
Speaker 3: and joyful experience with physical and emotional intimacy in the
26:20
Speaker 3: sexual component of their lives.
26:22
Speaker 1: Can you just talk a little bit.
26:23
Speaker 3: More about the role of parents and for those children
26:27
Speaker 3: who for various reasons may not have access to parents
26:30
Speaker 3: to guide them here the role of carers and other
26:36
Speaker 3: significant and important and trusted adults in children's lives. In
26:40
Speaker 3: terms of how this conversation plays out.
26:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you take values away from a child,
26:47
Speaker 2: you take those anchor points away from a child, and
26:50
Speaker 2: you just knock the legs out of decision making in
26:54
Speaker 2: the most critical times in the years of their life.
26:57
Speaker 2: And I guess resources like this in some ways are
27:02
Speaker 2: my I don't know, subconscious way of trying to be
27:06
Speaker 2: there in spaces and places of kids' lives where maybe
27:09
Speaker 2: they have half present adults. Maybe in some way they
27:13
Speaker 2: can read my words and it fills a gap in
27:17
Speaker 2: their lives that an adult can't feel for whatever reason,
27:20
Speaker 2: in that child's life at that time. I feel like parents,
27:25
Speaker 2: anythink that you can do to instill and transfer strong
27:31
Speaker 2: values in these years between say eight to twelve, before
27:35
Speaker 2: they hit those teenage years are completely irreplaceable. You can't
27:39
Speaker 2: you can't get those years back once they hit thirteen, fourteen, fifteen.
27:44
Speaker 2: At least they have a blueprint which, now, whether you
27:48
Speaker 2: like it or not, they're going to make some of
27:50
Speaker 2: their own decisions based around and on and up against
27:55
Speaker 2: them through that that blueprint stays with them forever. And
28:00
Speaker 2: these years are so open, you know, it's a second
28:02
Speaker 2: rapid time of growth in their life as opposed to toddlerhood.
28:07
Speaker 2: Their brains developing at the speed of lightning between eight
28:11
Speaker 2: and twelve, and they're absorbing your values at such a
28:14
Speaker 2: quick pace.
28:16
Speaker 3: One quick observation as you say that, it springs to
28:19
Speaker 3: mind that I rarely get excited about having a conversation
28:25
Speaker 3: with my children about these kinds of topics, and yet
28:29
Speaker 3: the opportunity to share, the opportunity to listen, the opportunity
28:33
Speaker 3: to impart those values generally turns those conversations into some
28:38
Speaker 3: of the most delightfully unexpected positive experiences and positive reactions
28:42
Speaker 3: that I've ever had.
28:43
Speaker 1: With my children. I actually really love these conversations.
28:46
Speaker 2: And justin, guess what you could swap this topic up for.
28:50
Speaker 2: I don't care less, But this is about connecting with
28:54
Speaker 2: your kid, right and this is just a tool in
28:57
Speaker 2: the vehicle. Can I just share one beautiful thing that
29:00
Speaker 2: a mum said to me just a few weeks ago.
29:03
Speaker 2: She came up to me and she said her daughter
29:05
Speaker 2: had said had been really nervous about this conversation. And
29:09
Speaker 2: after the book and after the conversation, she came to
29:11
Speaker 2: a mom and she said, Mom, thank you for buying
29:13
Speaker 2: me that book, and thank you for talking to me.
29:16
Speaker 2: And Mom, can we keep this book? And when I
29:18
Speaker 2: have a daughter, I'm going to have this conversation with
29:22
Speaker 2: my daughter and I'm going to use this book. And
29:24
Speaker 2: I just went on just loving this. And it's because
29:29
Speaker 2: the moment mattered. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about
29:35
Speaker 2: birds and bees or whatever. It's the moment that matters.
29:40
Speaker 2: And if this matters for your child right now, show
29:43
Speaker 2: up and do it well and make sure growing up's fun.
29:46
Speaker 2: That's what I reckon. Justin, I want parents to know
29:49
Speaker 2: that there's all sorts of information about assisted reproductive therapy
29:54
Speaker 2: as well, because that's such a big part of a
29:56
Speaker 2: lot of kids journey. That's just the only thing that
29:58
Speaker 2: I think we didn't mention, But I think think we
30:00
Speaker 2: covered so much ground here.
30:02
Speaker 3: I've loved the conversation. The book is called Where do
30:04
Speaker 3: Babies Come From? And Other Questions? At eight twelve year
30:07
Speaker 3: odds ask you've sold tens of thousands of copies of
30:10
Speaker 3: this book already. I'm a little bit slow to the
30:11
Speaker 3: party getting you on the podcast, and the book's been
30:13
Speaker 3: out for a little while now, but we will link
30:14
Speaker 3: to it in the show notes, and hopefully there'll be
30:17
Speaker 3: another bunch of a huge bunch of people who are
30:19
Speaker 3: listening to pod and saying, oh, yeah, I need some
30:21
Speaker 3: guidance here. This is exactly the book that we need
30:23
Speaker 3: in our home. We love having it on and on
30:26
Speaker 3: our bedside table and giving our kids access to it.
30:29
Speaker 3: This podcast conversation has prompted me to pull it out
30:32
Speaker 3: and go through it, even with a couple of my
30:34
Speaker 3: bigger kids, because it's been a while since we've had
30:36
Speaker 3: some of those conversations, and I just think there's so
30:38
Speaker 3: much value in the book. Michelle Mitchell, author of Where
30:41
Speaker 3: Do Babies Come From, as well as both the Girls
30:44
Speaker 3: and the Guys Guide to Puberty and Tweens.
30:46
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on a Happy Family podcast.
30:48
Speaker 2: Thank you, Page one five seven mooning.
30:51
Speaker 3: Oh go on, I'll go and have a special look
30:53
Speaker 3: at that page as soon as I've finished conversation. I'm
31:00
Speaker 3: so glad that you got Mileageadam, and that makes me
31:02
Speaker 3: happy to know that you were happy.
31:04
Speaker 2: Pretty It's a bit of a slow start. We have
31:06
Speaker 2: to kind of warm it up now.
31:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, you made up for it. It was really great.
31:10
Speaker 3: Thanks for being with Mi Michelle, and I'm sure that
31:12
Speaker 3: this book's going to be so helpful so many families.
31:14
Speaker 2: Thanks Justin.
31:15
Speaker 3: The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
31:18
Speaker 3: Bridge Media. We will link to these resources in the
31:21
Speaker 3: show notes as promised, and if you'd like more information
31:24
Speaker 3: and more resources generally about making your family happier, Happy
31:27
Speaker 3: Families dot com, dot a