Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BOMBSHELL In Case of Missing Brothers Orrin, 3, and Orson, 4

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BOMBSHELL In Case of Missing Brothers Orrin, 3, and Orson, 4 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy, Grace is anything more precious than
0:15
Speaker 1: a three or a four year old because they're not
0:19
Speaker 1: crying all night. They can run around, they can say things,
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Speaker 1: they can communicate that it can express childlike love and
0:29
Speaker 1: wonder everywhere they go. At least in my world, those
0:36
Speaker 1: were some of the greatest times I ever had with
0:40
Speaker 1: my twins, John, David and Lucy now fourteen. And when
0:46
Speaker 1: I think about Orson and or In West, ages three
0:50
Speaker 1: and four, I think in my own children at that age,
0:56
Speaker 1: in the last hours a studying in new development and
1:00
Speaker 1: the search for these two beautiful little brothers. I mean, see, Grace,
1:06
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:09
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation in series M one eleven. First
1:12
Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends at ABC
1:16
Speaker 1: twenty three knees. It's been nearly a year since authorities
1:19
Speaker 1: and volunteers began searching for two young boys or in
1:23
Speaker 1: an Orson West in California City. Bakersfield Police officials releasing
1:27
Speaker 1: an update on the case this week. The department says
1:30
Speaker 1: since June they've executed four more search warrants, interviewed thirty
1:34
Speaker 1: three more people, conducted, eleven more mass area searches and
1:38
Speaker 1: four out of state searches. Over one hundred seventy items
1:42
Speaker 1: have also been collected. Since BPD announced they were taking
1:45
Speaker 1: over the investigation. In March, foster parents Trezelle and Jacqueline
1:49
Speaker 1: West reported the three and four year old had disappeared
1:52
Speaker 1: from their California City residents last December. They say the
1:56
Speaker 1: boys went missing from the backyard while the adoptive father
1:59
Speaker 1: was gathering or would how exactly does that happen when
2:03
Speaker 1: you're in the yard with your two children, Not just
2:06
Speaker 1: one goes missing, but two go missing at the same time.
2:10
Speaker 1: And from what I understand about the terrain, they were
2:14
Speaker 1: backed up against the desert. How far could a three
2:17
Speaker 1: and a four year old get and that type of terrain?
2:22
Speaker 1: Time has passed. But how did it all start? How
2:26
Speaker 1: did it all start? About one year ago? Take a
2:31
Speaker 1: listen to hour cut one Taylor shob kg et seventeen.
2:35
Speaker 1: You said you were searching for two missing boys, ages
2:38
Speaker 1: three and four. The children orson West and or in West,
2:43
Speaker 1: were last seen in the ten thousand, seven hundred bloc
2:47
Speaker 1: of Aspen Avenue. They're described as African American, about three
2:52
Speaker 1: free tall, both wearing black sweatshirts and gray sweatpants. But
2:57
Speaker 1: what do the parents have to say? According to them,
3:02
Speaker 1: they were home, or at least the father was when
3:05
Speaker 1: both children go missing? Is that correct? Take a listen
3:09
Speaker 1: to this. Trazille West details the moment his two adopted boys,
3:13
Speaker 1: three year old Orson In four year old or In,
3:15
Speaker 1: went missing Monday night from their California city home. Moments before,
3:19
Speaker 1: West says he was gathering wood to start a fire.
3:22
Speaker 1: I'm looked back gate. I'm throwing wood, bring it inside
3:26
Speaker 1: the house. My wife's inside. She was actually rapping gifts,
3:29
Speaker 1: so we thought it was a good idea. Bag got
3:32
Speaker 1: our youngest too, outside and played with chop the back patio.
3:36
Speaker 1: Shortly after, West says he no longer saw the boys
3:39
Speaker 1: on the patio. He asked his wife, Jacqueline, if she
3:42
Speaker 1: saw them. She said no. That's when he says panic
3:45
Speaker 1: set in. I realized that I lived a gate open,
3:47
Speaker 1: and I panicked. Came inside house, searched the house, me
3:50
Speaker 1: and my wife. Once that I hadn't put out, I
3:55
Speaker 1: got in the van. I looked down street in both directions.
3:59
Speaker 1: It was getting dark, get cold, what said? He then
4:02
Speaker 1: called the police within minutes. Since then, California City Police,
4:05
Speaker 1: the FBI, and the current County Sheriff's office have been investigating. Okay,
4:09
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go first. We had an all star panel
4:13
Speaker 1: superstars in the crime finding world joining me. Mark Class,
4:18
Speaker 1: founder and founder of Class Kids Foundation, who has been
4:22
Speaker 1: a champion in finding missing children. If there's something to
4:26
Speaker 1: know about finding missing children, he knows it. You can
4:29
Speaker 1: find him at class Kids dot org. Kathleen Murphy, high
4:32
Speaker 1: profile lawyer, joining us out of North Carolina at NC
4:36
Speaker 1: Domestic Law dot com. Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists, joining
4:41
Speaker 1: us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold md
4:44
Speaker 1: dot com. Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of the Coalcase
4:49
Speaker 1: Research Institute. Chee's a forensics expert and you can find
4:52
Speaker 1: her at Coalcase Crimes dot org. Special guest joining us
4:56
Speaker 1: from KMGHTV by an weighing before I go to buying baying,
5:02
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us and taking time away
5:05
Speaker 1: from this case and the others that you're reporting on.
5:08
Speaker 1: Mark Klass, you hear what the father is saying, and
5:12
Speaker 1: I know that that circumstance can happen. We were just
5:17
Speaker 1: talking the other day about I believe she was three
5:20
Speaker 1: years old, Samantha running who was in the front yard.
5:23
Speaker 1: The grandmother was looking at her playing with some other
5:27
Speaker 1: children from inside the kitchen, looking through the window, and
5:30
Speaker 1: some perv comes up, grabs her, puts her in the
5:35
Speaker 1: car and leaves before the grandma can even run to
5:37
Speaker 1: the front yard. It was not a very far distance
5:40
Speaker 1: at all. And you know about my incident when my son,
5:44
Speaker 1: my daughter and I they were about three and about
5:47
Speaker 1: two in a baby Warehouse superstore and I was all
5:52
Speaker 1: down looking at the very bottom shelf for organic sun
5:56
Speaker 1: tannelation and I turned around. I can't find it, guys,
6:01
Speaker 1: and there was only Lucy there, and John David had
6:04
Speaker 1: on those crocs that can be silent. And you know
6:09
Speaker 1: Mark class, I screened bloody murder, grabbed Lucy like a
6:13
Speaker 1: football and started running for them to lock the doors
6:16
Speaker 1: to the front because all I could think about was
6:19
Speaker 1: Adam Walsh and what had happened was John David had
6:23
Speaker 1: snuck off to look at toys and was actually hiding
6:27
Speaker 1: as I would run down the aisles and look either way.
6:29
Speaker 1: He thought it was some kind of a game. So
6:32
Speaker 1: it can happen in the blink of an eye. Can
6:34
Speaker 1: it knocked Mark class? Well, it can, and I bet
6:38
Speaker 1: your son never did that again, So no, he didn't. Yeah,
6:41
Speaker 1: we need to put a little context here. California City
6:45
Speaker 1: is absolutely in the middle of nowhere. It's in the
6:48
Speaker 1: Mahabi Desert. There is no large cities around it at all.
6:52
Speaker 1: There is no major roads or highways that go through
6:55
Speaker 1: California City. The population is under fifteen thousand, so I mean,
7:01
Speaker 1: we're really talking about a remote area, and the idea
7:04
Speaker 1: that two little boys left the yard and within a
7:08
Speaker 1: very few minutes were somehow abducted by an opportunistic stranger
7:15
Speaker 1: is a really hard pill to swallow for a couple
7:18
Speaker 1: of reasons. First of all, there's nobody going through that
7:22
Speaker 1: town that doesn't live in that town. It's just not
7:24
Speaker 1: set up that way. Secondly, we're talking about two little
7:27
Speaker 1: children as opposed to one little child, which means that
7:30
Speaker 1: you're going to have a lot more to deal with
7:34
Speaker 1: keeping those kids under control as you're trying to get
7:37
Speaker 1: away with them. Thirdly, there's absolutely no evidence of any
7:41
Speaker 1: kind on CCTV or anything else that there was somebody
7:45
Speaker 1: going through that area that might possibly have picked these
7:49
Speaker 1: children up. So I think I believe it's a pretty
7:53
Speaker 1: suspect story. Well, here's the thing. I'm glad you tell
7:57
Speaker 1: me what you just tell me, Mark Class, because I
7:59
Speaker 1: didn't realize exactly where we were talking about. Let me
8:03
Speaker 1: go straight out to buy on Wang with k MGHTV.
8:09
Speaker 1: You can find them an insta at bayon Wang Bay.
8:14
Speaker 1: I remember taking the twins on one of our many
8:19
Speaker 1: RB trips and we went through the Majave Desert and
8:25
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything alike it. In fact, we got
8:28
Speaker 1: there late in the day and it went dark while
8:33
Speaker 1: we were there, and I was so afraid that RB
8:37
Speaker 1: was going to go off the road. But when I
8:39
Speaker 1: could still see outside, it was cracked dry and as
8:45
Speaker 1: far as you could see, there was nobody, nobody but us.
8:52
Speaker 1: That would be a brutal terrain for these two little
8:57
Speaker 1: boys to get lost in. And I never have understood
9:02
Speaker 1: how a three and a four year old can get
9:04
Speaker 1: that far away unless the dad's out collecting firewood or
9:08
Speaker 1: getting firewood for an hour. Also, by I've wondered during
9:14
Speaker 1: this year about neighbors. Could a neighbor have gotten them
9:19
Speaker 1: and therefore no one would have seen a vehicle by on?
9:23
Speaker 1: You tell me about the neighborhood, especially based on what
9:26
Speaker 1: Mark Class has just told us. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, look,
9:30
Speaker 1: this is a desert city and it's kind of out
9:33
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, but the neighborhood that the
9:35
Speaker 1: boys were reported missing out of its actually maybe like
9:39
Speaker 1: any other neighborhood you would see in a suburban area.
9:42
Speaker 1: A lot of houses, a lot of cul de sacs,
9:45
Speaker 1: a lot of people out in their lines. And during
9:47
Speaker 1: the time that the boys were reported missing, I mean,
9:49
Speaker 1: there was still some day light out, but it was
9:51
Speaker 1: getting dark pretty quickly, so there are people, there were
9:56
Speaker 1: people that were outside, and police have never reported to
9:59
Speaker 1: us that they ever that those neighbors ever saw the boys.
10:03
Speaker 1: The day that they were missing, and you know, officials
10:07
Speaker 1: hit the ground running for a search. They had an
10:09
Speaker 1: infrared uh you know, an opportunity up in the sky
10:13
Speaker 1: with HP helping with the view what well, what with
10:16
Speaker 1: what helping? Well, they had a HP helicopter up in
10:21
Speaker 1: the sky with you know, infrared technology that would detect
10:26
Speaker 1: body heat. Okay, wait, slow down just a second with me.
10:30
Speaker 1: Buy On Wang from k MGH. I didn't know California
10:35
Speaker 1: Highway Patrol chips um. I didn't know that they used
10:39
Speaker 1: an overhead infrared tell me about that buy on. Well, look,
10:42
Speaker 1: the California the City Police Department has you know, staff
10:46
Speaker 1: of maybe under fifteen, so they need help from all
10:49
Speaker 1: their resources you know that they could utilize. So yeah,
10:53
Speaker 1: they HP was pretty quick to respond. Um, they called
10:57
Speaker 1: on the current County Shriff's office search and rest to
11:00
Speaker 1: you that bakers Field Police Department gun involved pretty quickly afterwards,
11:04
Speaker 1: because David, you know California City Police Department, they're small
11:08
Speaker 1: team and for something two little boys missing, they needed
11:13
Speaker 1: all the help they could get, and nothing turned up
11:16
Speaker 1: for them during that church. You know what by Unwine
11:19
Speaker 1: just said, A true words cannot be spoken Mark Class
11:23
Speaker 1: And I know I ask you this a lot, but
11:28
Speaker 1: if you don't mind, could you recount how critical those
11:32
Speaker 1: first three hours, five hours, ten hours, twenty four hours,
11:36
Speaker 1: forty eight hours are when a child goes missing. Well,
11:39
Speaker 1: if it's under a predatory situation, if it's a predatory
11:41
Speaker 1: situation as opposed to say, a parental situation, and the
11:46
Speaker 1: children are going to be murdered, seventy four percent of
11:49
Speaker 1: those kids are going to be dead within the first
11:51
Speaker 1: three hours. Eighty eight point five of those children, percent
11:54
Speaker 1: of those children will be dead within the first twenty
11:57
Speaker 1: four hours. That is why time is absolutely so critical.
12:01
Speaker 1: And that's what the Amber Lard actually is all about.
12:05
Speaker 1: And when you hear Mark Class talking about a parental situation,
12:08
Speaker 1: he's usually referring to something like mom and a dad
12:11
Speaker 1: fighting over custody and one gets fed up and just
12:15
Speaker 1: takes a children in high tails. Sometimes you have grandparents
12:18
Speaker 1: who think they know better and they all jump in
12:20
Speaker 1: and take a child. That's the kind of kidnap where
12:25
Speaker 1: you don't expect the child to end up dead. If
12:28
Speaker 1: it is a predator who's usually in it to rape
12:32
Speaker 1: the child, they'll go on and kill the child. And
12:35
Speaker 1: why is that? Why is that? Mark Class? I can't
12:38
Speaker 1: get into the heads of a predator, Nancy. I know
12:42
Speaker 1: that a lot of them are very twisted individuals. You're
12:45
Speaker 1: dealing with a psychopath. I mean, Pauli's killer had been
12:49
Speaker 1: previously diagnosed as a sexually sadistic psychopath. And I can't
12:56
Speaker 1: go there. I'm sorry, guys. The thinking I believe to
13:02
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, who was dealt with so many parental kidnaps,
13:07
Speaker 1: I believe a sex predator kills a child because they
13:10
Speaker 1: don't want a witness, because then suddenly they see the
13:13
Speaker 1: child in a different way than they did before they
13:17
Speaker 1: molested the child. The child is no longer pure and pristine.
13:21
Speaker 1: It's crying, it's hurt, it's bloodied, it's bruised. They don't
13:26
Speaker 1: want to witness. What are you going to do with
13:28
Speaker 1: a child? What take care of it? I mean that
13:30
Speaker 1: hardly ever happens. Why do they always kill the child, Kathleen, Well,
13:36
Speaker 1: obviously the child could be a witness, depending upon the
13:41
Speaker 1: age of the child. They want to, in their mind,
13:44
Speaker 1: discard the evidence. They don't want that evidence around. They
13:48
Speaker 1: want the pure child to be there. The child no longer.
13:51
Speaker 1: I think he nailed it right on the head. Cheryl McCollum.
13:54
Speaker 1: Jump in, Nancy. This case bothers me right from Jump Street,
13:58
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why. Dad says, I was outside
14:02
Speaker 1: collecting firewood. I go in the house just for a
14:04
Speaker 1: few minutes. I come back out. The children are gone. Well,
14:07
Speaker 1: he's out there. He doesn't report seeing a car or
14:11
Speaker 1: a stranger or anything out of the ordinary. He's only
14:14
Speaker 1: gone a very few minutes. Well, if he's correct, you know,
14:19
Speaker 1: people left a baby in the bathtub for thirty seconds
14:23
Speaker 1: and I came back and it was dead. Okay, that
14:26
Speaker 1: is not true. It never happens that way. The person,
14:29
Speaker 1: the parent, goes and gets on the phone, they play
14:32
Speaker 1: on Facebook, they go go get the mail, they do
14:36
Speaker 1: all sorts of things, and then the baby has drowned.
14:39
Speaker 1: They never leave for thirty seconds. That did not happen.
14:43
Speaker 1: Speaking of what the parents have to say, take those
14:45
Speaker 1: to our cut ten eight, the father speaking at a
14:49
Speaker 1: press conference. It was cold. I was gonna make a fire,
14:54
Speaker 1: so a lot of wood area right here next to
14:56
Speaker 1: our house. I'll end up to that gate I'm throwing,
15:00
Speaker 1: would bring it inside the house. My wife's inside. She
15:04
Speaker 1: was actually wrapping gifts. So we thought it was a
15:06
Speaker 1: good idea that they got our youngest to go outside
15:09
Speaker 1: and played with chalk on the back patio, to not
15:13
Speaker 1: let them go on the dirt in the backyard and
15:15
Speaker 1: keep them close. So it was playing with chalk, and
15:19
Speaker 1: I came to the house. I saw them there. I
15:22
Speaker 1: went the house, I came back out. I didn't see him. Now.
15:27
Speaker 1: I immediately went back in asked my wife, did you
15:32
Speaker 1: see the boys. She said, no, they should be outside
15:35
Speaker 1: playing with chalk. I said, well, I didn't see them
15:38
Speaker 1: so I came back outside and I started searching my backyard.
15:41
Speaker 1: I searched the whole thing. I realized that I left
15:44
Speaker 1: the gate open, and I panicked, came inside the house,
15:48
Speaker 1: searched the house, me and my wife. Once that I
15:51
Speaker 1: hadn't put out, I got in the van. I looked
15:55
Speaker 1: down the street both directions. It was getting dark, getting cold,
15:58
Speaker 1: and I got in the van and I had a
16:00
Speaker 1: bunch of corners. I went down the street, I turned
16:03
Speaker 1: my light on, I searched, I searched, I called their names,
16:06
Speaker 1: talked to a gentleman on the street on the other
16:07
Speaker 1: side over there. He didn't see anything. So then I
16:10
Speaker 1: came home and I took my wife for me to
16:12
Speaker 1: call the cops. He's getting dark and I need help.
16:14
Speaker 1: We gotta get going, so I called the cops. Cops came.
16:18
Speaker 1: First thing they did was tell us to stay in
16:20
Speaker 1: the house so they can get a hold of us.
16:22
Speaker 1: And they had us just sitting there, and we wanted
16:24
Speaker 1: to keep searching. You're hearing the father speaking out about
16:29
Speaker 1: what happened that night. The father goes on to say
16:32
Speaker 1: he realized he left the gate open panic when he
16:36
Speaker 1: had come inside, and then he searched the house before
16:39
Speaker 1: he got in the van and started looking. What does
16:44
Speaker 1: the mother have to say? Take a listen to Jacqueline
16:47
Speaker 1: West and Our cut twelve. I definitely know they're not
16:50
Speaker 1: walking around. They're not that kind. They do not just
16:55
Speaker 1: roam around. You know these patches they I think definitely
17:01
Speaker 1: would have been picked up or something that's that was
17:05
Speaker 1: my son. Have they ever taken off a remote or No, no,
17:08
Speaker 1: it's never taken off. Okay, maybe it's just me, doctor
17:15
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold. But they don't sound upset. I mean I
17:18
Speaker 1: went crazy when I couldn't find John David, he had
17:22
Speaker 1: only been gone two minutes, screaming and crying. It sounded
17:28
Speaker 1: like a siren, and then I realized it was coming
17:31
Speaker 1: from my throat, screaming to lock the doors. My son
17:36
Speaker 1: was missing. I did not hesitate and took off running.
17:42
Speaker 1: They sound pretty hill. Yeah, And Nancy, imagine if somebody
17:47
Speaker 1: accused you and said do you have something to do
17:51
Speaker 1: with your kid going missing? I know you pretty well.
17:54
Speaker 1: I think you would have some choice work for them,
17:56
Speaker 1: and I don't think it would be at a moderate
17:58
Speaker 1: volume either. When I posed the question to the adoptive parents,
18:02
Speaker 1: there are people who think you may be directly involved.
18:05
Speaker 1: We want to be there and give you an opportunity
18:07
Speaker 1: to respond. And so they're saying if they could go
18:10
Speaker 1: screw themselves. They basically just said, yeah, we could understand
18:14
Speaker 1: why that is. We totally understand. They're just very very calm,
18:20
Speaker 1: like Leanna is telling us, Doctor Angela Arnold, very calm
18:23
Speaker 1: too calm. Don't you agree, Nancy? That's why I said it.
18:27
Speaker 1: I don't like the way that they're acting. Now, you
18:31
Speaker 1: know how Mark class, if I had a defense attorney
18:36
Speaker 1: crawled down my throat because I made that observation. Then
18:39
Speaker 1: they go all on about there's no playbook for drama
18:43
Speaker 1: for trauma, there's no playbook for grief b s. They
18:47
Speaker 1: can scream that till they're blue in the face, but
18:50
Speaker 1: a jury knows, a jury knows what doesn't make sense.
18:54
Speaker 1: And these two they don't sound upset to me. And
18:57
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what else you did with that statement
18:59
Speaker 1: or person. She set up the only scenario that really
19:03
Speaker 1: works for them. She said, these boys don't wander. Well,
19:06
Speaker 1: apparently they wandered into the front yard, but from that point,
19:10
Speaker 1: she's basically saying the only way they could have disappeared.
19:14
Speaker 1: Is if somebody had picked them up and kidnapped them
19:17
Speaker 1: and taken them far away. And I mean, look at
19:20
Speaker 1: a mark class. Who would not want these two little boys?
19:23
Speaker 1: They look like two little models. They're just beautiful, and
19:27
Speaker 1: they're just brimming excitement and mischief and everything wonderful about
19:34
Speaker 1: a little boy. So where are they? Take a listen
19:38
Speaker 1: to our cut eighteen David Kaplan Fox fifty eight Trezelle
19:43
Speaker 1: at Jacqueline West End. Their six kids lived at Castlema
19:46
Speaker 1: Apartments here in Bakersfield, across the street from where I'm at.
19:49
Speaker 1: They moved from here to California City in September. This afternoon,
19:54
Speaker 1: around forty people used drones, dogs, trash picker ruppers, and
19:59
Speaker 1: their eyes and feet to look for any sign of
20:02
Speaker 1: Orn and Orson West, the four and three year olds
20:04
Speaker 1: parents say they lost last I saw them in their
20:07
Speaker 1: backyard in California City around five pm on December twenty first.
20:12
Speaker 1: California City police say they have talked to every neighbor
20:15
Speaker 1: on that street whoa stop everything by own Wang joining
20:21
Speaker 1: me Kay and g H. Six children, Yeah, two biological
20:25
Speaker 1: and four adoptive. Orson and Orn West were their foster
20:30
Speaker 1: kids and then they adopted them, and that was just
20:33
Speaker 1: before twenty twenty, so around twenty nineteen. Okay, okay, so
20:37
Speaker 1: they've got six children. Two of them were their natural
20:39
Speaker 1: children were then you got Orn and Orson were the
20:43
Speaker 1: other two adopted children also their foster children at some
20:47
Speaker 1: point they were And the day that they reported Orson
20:51
Speaker 1: or missing, they said that the other four children were
20:55
Speaker 1: at grandparents in Bakersfield, which is about seventy miles away.
21:00
Speaker 1: So just four stayed with the grandparents and then Orson
21:04
Speaker 1: Orne stayed with them. Okay, I'm getting a good picture
21:07
Speaker 1: now by on Wane, go ahead. It was just for
21:10
Speaker 1: that time period they all lived together in California City
21:14
Speaker 1: at home visiting. Got it Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
21:31
Speaker 1: So what did the neighbors notice? Take a listen to
21:35
Speaker 1: our friends and cut seven at twenty three ABC speaking
21:39
Speaker 1: to the adoptive parents was incredibly telling, as for the
21:43
Speaker 1: first time since the kids went missing, they're telling us
21:46
Speaker 1: exactly what happened from their perspective. Now, It's also important
21:49
Speaker 1: to mention that the community here, a lot of neighbors
21:51
Speaker 1: told me that the parents have been virtually absent from
21:55
Speaker 1: all search efforts, raising a lot of concern out here
21:57
Speaker 1: in California City. But the adoptive parents told me that's
22:01
Speaker 1: because they've been busy with the police investigation, and that
22:05
Speaker 1: police told them that they don't need to be out
22:07
Speaker 1: there searching because there's already an adequate amount of people
22:10
Speaker 1: doing so. No, no way in h L I would
22:14
Speaker 1: be searching. I would be searching. Come hell our high water,
22:19
Speaker 1: and we also jump in. It is so important to
22:23
Speaker 1: point this out. The father says, I went out of
22:26
Speaker 1: the backyard and searched the whole thing. Then I got
22:28
Speaker 1: in the van and went down the street this way
22:30
Speaker 1: and down the street that way. He nor the mama, ever,
22:35
Speaker 1: says she searched for them. You know what, You're right,
22:39
Speaker 1: You are absolutely right. What mother in her right mind
22:41
Speaker 1: is not out searching. Take a listen to our friends
22:44
Speaker 1: Alex Bell at twenty three ABC cut five, and the
22:47
Speaker 1: search continues for two tallers from California City who were
22:51
Speaker 1: reported missing on Monday night, and now the FBI isn't
22:54
Speaker 1: involved in the search, as well as the current County
22:57
Speaker 1: Sheriff's office three and four year olds Warren and Orson West,
23:00
Speaker 1: who are on your screen right now. They were reported
23:02
Speaker 1: missing around the five pm yesterday. A search warrant was
23:06
Speaker 1: served at their foster parents' house today in kel City,
23:09
Speaker 1: and the foster parents are still at police headquarters. Why
23:13
Speaker 1: did they need a search warrant to search the parents home?
23:19
Speaker 1: I always use Mark Class as the goal standard. When
23:24
Speaker 1: Mark Class's daughter Polly went missing, he didn't tell the place. Oh,
23:30
Speaker 1: I'd love for you to come search my place, but
23:32
Speaker 1: you know what you need to warrant for that own up.
23:34
Speaker 1: He said, take my fingerprints, take my DNA, come search
23:39
Speaker 1: my place, search my car, search my office, do whatever
23:41
Speaker 1: you want, but let's find Polly and let's find who
23:45
Speaker 1: took her. And ps, can you do it right now?
23:49
Speaker 1: I don't like it when cops have to get a
23:51
Speaker 1: search warrant to search your place when your child it's missing,
23:56
Speaker 1: because minutes count, minutes count, Mark Class, Well, in this
24:02
Speaker 1: case more than minutes counts, actually month count, because the
24:06
Speaker 1: reality is is that nobody in California's They can find
24:10
Speaker 1: nobody in California that ever actually saw these two children,
24:15
Speaker 1: and that includes the neighbors. And they were able to
24:17
Speaker 1: determine that pretty quickly in their investigation as they were
24:21
Speaker 1: doing their neighborhood canvas. Absolutely let me repeat this, nobody
24:26
Speaker 1: ever saw those two boys in California City. What about
24:31
Speaker 1: a Bayon Wang joining me from KMGH. He's been on
24:34
Speaker 1: the case from the very beginning. What about it? Could
24:38
Speaker 1: any neighbor recount a time they had seen the children? Nope,
24:43
Speaker 1: we spoke to a lot of them. Police spoke to
24:45
Speaker 1: a lot of them too, and nobody saw these kids.
24:48
Speaker 1: In fact, the police went to step forward and went
24:51
Speaker 1: to all the convicted sex offender homes. I think there
24:54
Speaker 1: was about a dozen upwards of a dozen of them.
24:56
Speaker 1: They went inside their homes. They're a search and nothing
24:59
Speaker 1: turned up on that from either After they got the
25:01
Speaker 1: search to the parents home, they took a bunch of items,
25:06
Speaker 1: including excuse me, after they took a bunch of items.
25:10
Speaker 1: It was almost immediately after that their other four children
25:14
Speaker 1: were taken into state custody as well. And throughout the
25:18
Speaker 1: entire investigation, the parents were unable to retain custody of
25:23
Speaker 1: their other four kids, Mark Class, did you hear what
25:26
Speaker 1: bayonn Wayne just said that police went and they looked
25:30
Speaker 1: at everybody's house in the neighborhood. Do you remember it
25:34
Speaker 1: so important that cops do that? Because do you remember
25:38
Speaker 1: I always called her the girl in the pink hat
25:40
Speaker 1: because that was my favorite picture of Jessica Lunsford. She
25:44
Speaker 1: was taken from a home and the cops did a
25:48
Speaker 1: very very cursory search, went to the neighbors residences. She
25:55
Speaker 1: was in a neighbor's residence, had been forced into a
25:59
Speaker 1: closet and threatened to be quiet, and they actually came
26:03
Speaker 1: to that home and she was in that closet. She was,
26:06
Speaker 1: of course later buried alive and died after she was right.
26:11
Speaker 1: So these cops did the right thing. Mark class Well,
26:16
Speaker 1: I don't know that they did the right thing in
26:17
Speaker 1: the Lunsford case. I mean they said, oh, well, I'm
26:19
Speaker 1: talking about this. They did the wrong thing in this case.
26:24
Speaker 1: They did they didn't do the right thing. As Bayon said,
26:27
Speaker 1: they realized that they were an understaff force, so they
26:30
Speaker 1: started to call in other resources. And once you get
26:34
Speaker 1: HP and once you get the current county sheriff in,
26:36
Speaker 1: once you get the FBI in, you're dealing with some
26:39
Speaker 1: of the best investigators that exist. This is the team
26:43
Speaker 1: you want investigating your missing child case. Of course, unless
26:47
Speaker 1: you had something to do without yourself. Absolutely, everyone you
26:52
Speaker 1: are hearing verbalized all the questions police were asking, I
27:00
Speaker 1: mean to this all star panel, Mark Class, Kathleen Murphy,
27:04
Speaker 1: Angie Arnold, Cheryl McCollum, Bayond Wang jump in. The parents
27:10
Speaker 1: were pretty darn calm. No neighbors had seen the children,
27:16
Speaker 1: They had not seen them out playing in the yard. Nothing.
27:21
Speaker 1: The story is not really fitting together. So much was
27:24
Speaker 1: wrong with that picture, Cheryl McCollum, Honey, everything and wrong
27:28
Speaker 1: with this picture. And the more law enforcement did, the
27:31
Speaker 1: more it led them to believe that something was just
27:34
Speaker 1: absolutely not right in California City because they kept going
27:38
Speaker 1: back to Baker Still. One thing that happened is they
27:41
Speaker 1: brought in cadaver dogs. Nothing. They brought in search dogs.
27:45
Speaker 1: Search dogs hit on the two boys on the inside
27:49
Speaker 1: of the house, never on the outside of the house. Wow.
27:53
Speaker 1: In the last hours, we have breaking news. Take a
27:56
Speaker 1: listen to our friends and cut twenty one ABC seventeen.
28:00
Speaker 1: Two parents have now been charged with the murders of
28:03
Speaker 1: the case of their missing adopted sons in the Antelope Valley.
28:06
Speaker 1: In December of twenty twenty. Trezzelle and Jacqueline West told
28:10
Speaker 1: investigators four year old Orn and three year old Orson
28:14
Speaker 1: disappeared from their backyard after an extensive investigation, today the
28:19
Speaker 1: current county district attorney revealed the boys have been declared
28:22
Speaker 1: dead and actually died three months before they were even
28:27
Speaker 1: reported missing. This is not the outcome that we and
28:31
Speaker 1: so many had hoped to pray for over the last year.
28:35
Speaker 1: We now realized that the search for the boys began
28:38
Speaker 1: after the real tragedy had already occurred, and there will
28:41
Speaker 1: not be a resolution completely in this case until these
28:44
Speaker 1: boards have brought home. The parents are facing second degree
28:48
Speaker 1: murder and child abuse charges. Bayon Wang explained to me
28:53
Speaker 1: what we just heard, well, what you just heard was
28:55
Speaker 1: the DA basically report of the DA announcing that Worston
29:02
Speaker 1: or in West were believed to be deceased. They are
29:06
Speaker 1: believed to be deceased three months before the parents supported
29:11
Speaker 1: them missing. So they think that between September first and
29:15
Speaker 1: September thirtieth, the boys were killed by the parents. And
29:20
Speaker 1: this is a crucial time period here, because around September
29:25
Speaker 1: is when the parents packed up their bags and moved
29:28
Speaker 1: from Bakersfield to California City. To you, Mark Klass, Why,
29:34
Speaker 1: as Bayon Wang is saying, and I agree with him,
29:37
Speaker 1: by the way, is that such a critical date I
29:40
Speaker 1: mean the September date, because that was approximately the time
29:45
Speaker 1: that the DA said that the children were murdered. So
29:48
Speaker 1: you've got this confluence of little children not having been
29:54
Speaker 1: seen by anybody at basically the same time that the
29:57
Speaker 1: parents moved to another location, vastly populated location that three
30:02
Speaker 1: months later, all of a sudden, the children disappeared from
30:05
Speaker 1: the yard, and I think the parents were just basically
30:08
Speaker 1: trying to trying to justify why the children were not
30:12
Speaker 1: around anymore, not class before we went to air ease
30:17
Speaker 1: the words the word transactional explain well, listen to what
30:23
Speaker 1: we're looking at. Our two parents who obviously are not
30:27
Speaker 1: that concerned about the children, because they don't join in
30:30
Speaker 1: any search efforts. They don't do absolutely they do absolutely
30:33
Speaker 1: nothing but hang out at their house while the children
30:35
Speaker 1: are missing. But at the same time, these are parents
30:38
Speaker 1: that have fostered four different children plus their two owned
30:43
Speaker 1: and that's a transactional situation. The state of California pays
30:47
Speaker 1: foster parents in average one thousand dollars to twenty six
30:51
Speaker 1: hundred dollars per month to help with the expenses from
30:54
Speaker 1: taking care of the child. So I'm suggesting that the
30:58
Speaker 1: only reason they had these kids in the first place,
31:01
Speaker 1: was because it puts some money in their pockets once
31:03
Speaker 1: they got rid and once they've been adopted. I don't
31:07
Speaker 1: know how bad plays out, but I'm sure there's still
31:11
Speaker 1: money involved in it, and they just wanted to keep
31:13
Speaker 1: getting that money. What about it, Cheryl, I think anytime
31:16
Speaker 1: you are making money off of a child, there is
31:19
Speaker 1: the possibility of danger coming to that child because the
31:24
Speaker 1: child is not there because of love and wanting to
31:28
Speaker 1: raise that baby and have that baby be your own.
31:31
Speaker 1: Even in his statement to the media, he says it
31:35
Speaker 1: became ours it. Yeah, I noticed that by On Wang,
31:41
Speaker 1: I believe I hear you jumping and go ahead. Yeah.
31:43
Speaker 1: I mean the big question a lot of reporters on
31:45
Speaker 1: the ground over there had for the DA was, first
31:48
Speaker 1: of all, how do you know the boys are dead?
31:50
Speaker 1: And do you have their bodies? The DA said, we
31:54
Speaker 1: don't have their bodies, but we do have direct and
31:56
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence that leads us to believe that the boys
32:01
Speaker 1: are not alive. Anymore, direct and circumstantial evidence. What could
32:06
Speaker 1: that mean? Buy On? Well, I mean, I think you
32:08
Speaker 1: kind of mentioned earlier on in the show they've done.
32:11
Speaker 1: You know, they've executed forty eight search warrants, collected more
32:14
Speaker 1: than one hundred and fifty items searched for different states,
32:17
Speaker 1: conducted one hundred and sixteen interviews, and that was numbers
32:22
Speaker 1: that we got in December. And they presented all this
32:25
Speaker 1: to a grand jury who returned a true bill. Have
32:28
Speaker 1: resulted in an indictment, and now the parents faced two
32:32
Speaker 1: council secondary murder, two counts of willful cruelty to a child,
32:36
Speaker 1: one count of making a false report of an emergency.
32:40
Speaker 1: If they're convicted of these charges, are looking at thirty
32:43
Speaker 1: years to life in prison. And Nancy, I think most
32:47
Speaker 1: people know you were my prosecutor, but if those children
32:51
Speaker 1: had gone missing in September, you would have told us,
32:54
Speaker 1: go find me Halloween pictures of them, go find me
32:57
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving pictures of them, go find me of Santa clus
33:01
Speaker 1: picture of them. It was four days before Christmas when
33:04
Speaker 1: those children were murdered. Was a string of things that
33:08
Speaker 1: children would have been the center focus of your family.
33:12
Speaker 1: They have no such pictures. As a matter of fact,
33:15
Speaker 1: when law enforcement was saying, hey, they're missing, give us
33:18
Speaker 1: current pictures, the adopted parents had none. Time stories with
33:37
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, you would have thought, at least Kathley Murphy,
33:41
Speaker 1: they would have pictures on their phone. I mean, last
33:45
Speaker 1: night I was taking pictures left and right and the
33:47
Speaker 1: twins just doing a science project. I thought that was awesome.
33:51
Speaker 1: I took videos million pictures a day. And Nancy I
33:54
Speaker 1: watched her interview and they were asking her about the
33:57
Speaker 1: current pictures for these children, and she stubbed, well to
34:00
Speaker 1: all over the words, talked about an old phone, and
34:03
Speaker 1: it was clear that she didn't have pictures, and it
34:06
Speaker 1: was clear that she wasn't prepared to even answer that
34:09
Speaker 1: type of question, although they gave there and then internet
34:13
Speaker 1: and then I may day, sorry, I should say, three
34:16
Speaker 1: or four months after our first interview with them, I
34:20
Speaker 1: got a tip that the parents were in Bakersfield at
34:23
Speaker 1: the juvenile courthouse. I went there, saw the parents. There
34:27
Speaker 1: was no cameras involved. Really just wanted to have a conversation,
34:30
Speaker 1: see if we get pictures. At that time, they said
34:33
Speaker 1: they still don't have their electronic devices back from police.
34:37
Speaker 1: They wouldn't give me their phone number. I even said, guys, look,
34:40
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who want to hear from you.
34:42
Speaker 1: Can you at least issue a statement to me? Nothing
34:45
Speaker 1: on camera? Just tell me a statement that I could
34:47
Speaker 1: get out there for you guys, and they wouldn't not hey,
34:51
Speaker 1: thanks for searching, you know, or anything like that. And
34:55
Speaker 1: they claim that, you know, they've been threatened, you know,
34:59
Speaker 1: the lives have been threatened, and that they have been
35:01
Speaker 1: doing their own price their lives. What yeah, I mean,
35:08
Speaker 1: come on, there was a there was a huge outcry
35:10
Speaker 1: after the first interview we with the did with them.
35:14
Speaker 1: The only interview we did with well, their lives if
35:16
Speaker 1: they were threatened was because they're not doing anything. I mean,
35:20
Speaker 1: why would you not issue a statement asking people to
35:24
Speaker 1: help find your children and thanking the people that had
35:28
Speaker 1: helped find look for your children. I don't understand that
35:32
Speaker 1: I was looking for a statement along those lines. They
35:34
Speaker 1: just they never got one. They wouldn't tell me a
35:37
Speaker 1: single word. But how did they say? No? What did
35:40
Speaker 1: they What was their response? Well, they basically just said
35:43
Speaker 1: right now, no matter how we say it, whether we
35:46
Speaker 1: say thank you you know to the community, whether we
35:50
Speaker 1: say um, you know, please go and search for the
35:53
Speaker 1: kids even more than they think, no matter what kind
35:55
Speaker 1: of adjective now and whatever they would say that someone
35:59
Speaker 1: would find a way to use. Who cares? Bay on
36:04
Speaker 1: who cares? I mean, come on, Kathleen Murphy family lawyer,
36:08
Speaker 1: who cares what people say about you when your children's
36:11
Speaker 1: lives are on the line. Oh yes, I see how
36:14
Speaker 1: parents every single day don't care what people think about
36:19
Speaker 1: their children. They put on these images and they don't
36:23
Speaker 1: really have the truths out there. Meta one of these
36:26
Speaker 1: parents had the truths out there, They're going to put
36:28
Speaker 1: an image in and that shows their sense of culpability
36:33
Speaker 1: with regard to these children that are missing and Nancy.
36:35
Speaker 1: When they were on video, the father, and I use
36:38
Speaker 1: that term very loosely, had his arms tucked under his
36:44
Speaker 1: armpits for over fifteen minutes in a very defensive state.
36:49
Speaker 1: He is clearly in that video hiding something. Guys, I
36:55
Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to the current county
36:57
Speaker 1: district attorney speaking in our cut twenty five this morning.
37:00
Speaker 1: I'm saddened to announce that the investigation has revealed that
37:07
Speaker 1: Orn and Orson West are deceased. The investigation has also
37:13
Speaker 1: revealed that they died three months before their adoptive parents
37:21
Speaker 1: reported them missing. However, I am pleased to announce that
37:27
Speaker 1: this week, the Kerrent County Grand Jury indicted Trezelle and
37:34
Speaker 1: Jacqueline West, the adoptive parents for the murder of Oran
37:41
Speaker 1: and Orson West, to Mark Class founder off Class Kids Foundation.
37:47
Speaker 1: It is exactly as you said. They authorities believed the
37:51
Speaker 1: boys were murdered three months before they were ever reported missing.
37:57
Speaker 1: You know these people, when you have people that will
38:03
Speaker 1: make any excuse for inaction, will do absolutely everything they
38:07
Speaker 1: can to ensure that they don't get involved in the
38:11
Speaker 1: search or have to make a statement. You're looking at
38:14
Speaker 1: somebody that's hiding something, and you're talking that in itself.
38:18
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys are all the lawyers, but that
38:20
Speaker 1: in itself seems like a circumstantial situation where you're going
38:24
Speaker 1: to look at these people and go, what in the
38:26
Speaker 1: world is wrong with these people? What are they doing?
38:28
Speaker 1: I think that the DA did a great job. I
38:30
Speaker 1: think that I think she must have presented some amazing
38:34
Speaker 1: evidence to the grand jury, and I just hope that
38:37
Speaker 1: she has everything that she needs to be able to
38:40
Speaker 1: convict these people in a court of law. What do
38:43
Speaker 1: you think they have, Sharyl McCollum, direct and indirect evidence
38:47
Speaker 1: that the boys were killed three months before. I find
38:49
Speaker 1: it interesting that they come out and say the prosecutor.
38:52
Speaker 1: They were killed three months before they were reported missing.
38:57
Speaker 1: What could she have I think she had a lot
38:59
Speaker 1: of things as testimony from the older siblings, how the
39:02
Speaker 1: treatment was in the house. I think they have cell
39:05
Speaker 1: phone pings. I think they possibly have photographs. I think
39:09
Speaker 1: they've got the statements from the neighbors saying we didn't
39:11
Speaker 1: even know six boys were ever over there. We never
39:13
Speaker 1: saw any boys ever. They've got the evidence that's circumstantial,
39:17
Speaker 1: but from the canines. And they also have two things.
39:20
Speaker 1: A statement from the mamma when she says, well, I
39:23
Speaker 1: know they ain't out there walking around, and then we
39:25
Speaker 1: find out that Orn had a fractured left leg, so
39:30
Speaker 1: I guess she was right. And what does that mean
39:34
Speaker 1: to you guys? A fractured left leg? I mean to me,
39:39
Speaker 1: it says they were horribly abused. I mean, bayond Wang,
39:42
Speaker 1: what do we know about how a little boy at
39:45
Speaker 1: this young age, three to four years old has a
39:48
Speaker 1: fractured leg that takes an awful lot of force to
39:52
Speaker 1: break the leg of a three year old? It sure does.
39:55
Speaker 1: What about it, bayond? I mean that was something we
39:57
Speaker 1: asked an investigator and employees often they wouldn't tell us
40:04
Speaker 1: how that occurred or if that. They would never confirm
40:08
Speaker 1: that with us. We tried to get the information, we
40:11
Speaker 1: never got it. And these two counts a willful cruelty
40:14
Speaker 1: to a child. I would suspect that maybe that has
40:17
Speaker 1: something to do with it. And he read the indictment.
40:22
Speaker 1: They believed that other people were involved in both the
40:28
Speaker 1: cruelty to a child and the secondary murder charge. We
40:33
Speaker 1: asked if anybody else was detained or arrested. They weren't
40:36
Speaker 1: able to confirm. I'm trying to understand what that means.
40:40
Speaker 1: Other people may have taken part in the mistreatment or
40:45
Speaker 1: even the death of these two children. I wonder where
40:50
Speaker 1: are the Bio parents. Do we know that Bion? Yeah,
40:53
Speaker 1: I know the mother is in Bakersfield, and we spoke
40:58
Speaker 1: to her a few times, went in the first month
41:01
Speaker 1: of the investigation, and then she actually started I wouldn't
41:07
Speaker 1: thinking herself, but she wasn't comfortable was talking to us anymore.
41:11
Speaker 1: But as you could imagine for any mother, absolutely devastated.
41:14
Speaker 1: She said she had planned on, you know, getting her
41:17
Speaker 1: acts together, get you know, fixing a few things that
41:22
Speaker 1: may have resulted in the boys being taken. And yeah,
41:26
Speaker 1: absolutely devastated. Mark Class, I just you know, the boys
41:31
Speaker 1: are dead. The DA has told us so. They were
41:34
Speaker 1: dead three months before they were ever reported missing. And
41:37
Speaker 1: now I hear about the bio mom out there somewhere
41:39
Speaker 1: talking about Wow, I really wanted to get my act
41:42
Speaker 1: together so I could, you know, be part of their
41:44
Speaker 1: lives day late dollars short. I've been following this case
41:49
Speaker 1: for a long time and this was the very first
41:51
Speaker 1: time I've heard that one of the boys had a
41:53
Speaker 1: broken leg. And I'm just trying to envision how little
41:57
Speaker 1: tiny child with the broken leg is going to hobble
42:00
Speaker 1: away from his yard and some hell get picked up
42:05
Speaker 1: by somebody. This doesn't make any sense. This is just
42:07
Speaker 1: I heard that the evidence. I heard that the broken
42:12
Speaker 1: leg was two years ago. It wasn't a recent broken leg.
42:17
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't know that, and I
42:18
Speaker 1: still don't know how he broke the leg to start with.
42:21
Speaker 1: But I know this, I mean, I believe that was
42:24
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy to Mark Class. Thinking about that broken leg.
42:29
Speaker 1: There is no telling what kind of hell these two
42:33
Speaker 1: little children went through before they were finally murdered. Their
42:38
Speaker 1: lives must have just been pure hell. And I think
42:42
Speaker 1: we just got a glimpse into that, didn't We One
42:47
Speaker 1: of these two going to get the death penalty while
42:50
Speaker 1: they are being arraigned as we speak right now in Bakersfield.
42:56
Speaker 1: I know they were arrested two days ago in Western
42:59
Speaker 1: current money, and so the thing's going to go straight
43:03
Speaker 1: to trial. Well, we'll have to see. I don't think
43:05
Speaker 1: they get I don't think death penalty is on the
43:07
Speaker 1: table here. I think it's well, you're right by, The
43:10
Speaker 1: death penalty probably is not on the table, even though
43:14
Speaker 1: California does have a death penalty, and more than one
43:18
Speaker 1: body equals mass murder under the law, and you've got
43:22
Speaker 1: children and just three and four. But it's not going
43:25
Speaker 1: to happen. Mark class By on his right, Well, it's
43:27
Speaker 1: not going to happen for a variety of reasons. The
43:29
Speaker 1: governor unilaterally shut down death row. He's transferring all of
43:34
Speaker 1: the death row prisoners into general populations. So one man
43:39
Speaker 1: overrode the power of the law and the will of
43:41
Speaker 1: the people in California, and that means that these two
43:44
Speaker 1: will probably live a long and prosperous life behind bars,
43:48
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, with us paying for it. Three hearts
43:52
Speaker 1: in a cot. We wait as just as Sunfalls, Nancy
43:56
Speaker 1: Grace Crimes story, Signing off goodbye, friend in my Room,