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The Green Bike Empire That Can't Pay Its Bills. · The Curve

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Care Weekly, where we read the finance news so you don't have to.
• 0:04
  I'm Vic Harris, I'm a finance professional and I've had a career making money for other people.
• 0:08
  And I'm Sophie Hallwright, I'm an executive producer of Radio Television.
• 0:12
  I was just really sick and tired of not understanding the economy,
• 0:14
  so Vic and I started this podcast.
• 0:16
  Quick thank you before you get into it to our amazing team behind the scenes,
• 0:19
  Emily Rugby, our producer and Lucy Monroe, our social media manager.
• 0:23
  In today's episode we're giving a quick update on the meme stock that's made a bid for eBay.
• 0:27
  We talk about the oil crisis and the scary, scary, eyeword inflation.
• 0:33
  There's two main stories we're looking at today. Firstly, there is a company that from the outside
• 0:38
  looks like they're killing it, but are they actually? This business is about to go public for the
• 0:43
  first time. We're not so sure how positive this is going to be. And secondly, the Australian budget,
• 0:48
  there is some major tax changes happening and we compare this to now how it looks versus New Zealand
• 0:54
  and UK. And don't panic or be bored, tax is important. This is actually really important,
• 0:58
  so definitely stick around to listen to that. But first, a word from today's sponsor.
• 1:05
  This episode of The Curve Weekly is made possible thanks to Pathfinder Kiwi Saver Plan,
• 1:10
  helping you invest alongside your values. We're really excited to bring you the ethical hotline,
• 1:14
  where you can ask all your tricky ethical questions. Each month Pathfinder will answer the most
• 1:19
  interesting popular or poll rising question. To submit yours, follow the link in the podcast
• 1:23
  shown notes. Pathfinder asset management limited is the issuer of the Pathfinder Kiwi Saver Plan.
• 1:28
  A product disclosure statement is available at Pathfinder.kiwi. Guys, I have to admit,
• 1:33
  you know how we talk a lot on our podcast and on social media about how to split your pay and
• 1:37
  how to do this and do that. I have been so naughty the last two weeks and I'm constantly pulling
• 1:43
  money out of my gifts fund or my this fund because I've totally run out of money. That's okay.
• 1:47
  It's like I feel so far gone and today's payday. I feel like you're so far off the bandwagon.
• 1:53
  Like you're like off the bandwagon down the road around the road. Yeah, like the bandwagon or the
• 1:57
  wagon is like now been left in another country. Okay. And I have decided that. That's the right
• 2:02
  is another one coming. Oh, there's another one coming. You can get back on. But that's the thing.
• 2:06
  I'm struggling to get the motivation took because I feel really annoyed about the fact that I built
• 2:10
  up this money in the different parts and now I'm starting again. But that's the thing. You built up
• 2:14
  the money. I'm like disappointed with myself. It's almost like self-hatred mode. Yeah, like,
• 2:19
  no, sorry, not self-hatred. It's almost like I'm trying to punish myself. Like I've bought lots of
• 2:23
  stuff for work. Things are not reimbursed myself. To yourself, like you would if it was a friend.
• 2:29
  What would you say to a friend that had done the same? I would say put time aside this weekend
• 2:35
  on Sunday. Make time for yourself. We all mess up and you know end up doing things that are
• 2:42
  the opposite of what you say you should do. Pause, look at how much is coming in, relook at your
• 2:47
  numbers. You're obviously not quite nailing it. Like maybe you're investing too much. Maybe you're
• 2:51
  putting too much in certain buckets. But just take the time, take an hour. I don't know if you're
• 2:56
  nice to myself. I can even just tell the tone of my voice. You don't take the time. Even when you
• 3:00
  just sit there. No, but I will do that. I will because I'm publicly announcing that I'm doing it.
• 3:05
  So be really embarrassing if I come back next week. Yeah, next week we'll make a note.
• 3:10
  In my upper juice, I'm making notes in the prep sheet to ask Sophie how I'm actually really glad
• 3:14
  you have done that because otherwise you can't ability is great. I actually agree. And I think if
• 3:19
  you're in a similar position, sometimes almost like for example at the moment, I cannot get myself
• 3:26
  in the back in meditation. Like I need to meditate every day. I'm a way better person when I do it
• 3:31
  and I've been struggling too. So I've made a deal with my boyfriend where like he's got a really
• 3:35
  bad back and he needs to straight. So we're basically doing, he's doing his stretches while I
• 3:40
  meditate and then we're sort of like who ever falls off the bandwagon first, we're going to have
• 3:45
  some kind of like accountability thing. Oh, nice. Sorry, enough random chat about my life. No,
• 3:49
  but can I just, this is kind of a really, well, it's kind of a money saving hack. I guess this app
• 3:55
  that I found, it is an app that you take photos of every single item in your wardrobe and it
• 4:02
  generates outfits for you in the morning. No, I know. It's like like Clueless, but like today
• 4:09
  in today's age. Have you even done it? No, but that's what I'm doing this weekend. What's the
• 4:13
  point? It's quite a, like to get set up, you have to take photos of all your clothes and stuff,
• 4:17
  but it's so that you can, you don't have to buy new things. You can be like, oh yeah, that's right,
• 4:21
  that top and it goes well with those shorts and I've never thought to put those combinations together.
• 4:26
  Or you like, hey, I want to wear my brown cardie today. Can you send you some bottoms for it?
• 4:30
  That's actually quite good, but oh my god, we're not going to be using our brain at all in two years
• 4:35
  time. It's all about removing decision making. It can also save you money because there's maybe
• 4:40
  items in your clothes that you forgot, but also it creates like new, exciting combinations to wear.
• 4:46
  You only use like 10% of your wardrobe and it's been crazy. I interviewed someone which is,
• 4:50
  it's coming out in a couple of weeks, her name's Fran and one of the tips she gave was to take photos
• 4:54
  of outfits that you like, save them in a folder and they can be your work outfits. You're going out
• 4:58
  outfits so that when you're feeling like I have no outfits, it's the same kind of premise and I
• 5:03
  started doing it and it's been great. That's coming out not this week, but next week. But what,
• 5:07
  what is the app called? The app is called Wearing with an H. We're hearing. What? Wearing with an H. Yeah.
• 5:14
  W-H-E-R-I-M-G-G. It's really T-C. Wearing. We're link it. We're showing it to anyone that wants to
• 5:21
  download it. Right. Now, speaking of clothing, eBay, we spoke about this last week. It's a pretty
• 5:26
  funny story. So if anyone that's missed it, GameStop was a mean stop that went viral a few years
• 5:31
  ago. They last week did a takeover bid for eBay, which is four times its size. So a lot of people
• 5:37
  kind of laughed. It was this big hilarious. Everyone's just saying, this is obviously not going to
• 5:41
  go through. So we have an update. Yes. So the eBay board has rejected the offer, which was not
• 5:48
  really a shock. No. They said it's neither credible or attractive. So what a funny quote. The board is
• 5:55
  kind of the spokesperson for the shareholders. And they're just like, kind of like absolutely hot.
• 5:59
  And then the GameStop CEO has already come back. They've fired off a letter to the eBay
• 6:04
  chairperson and said, you know, we're going to go straight to shareholders and we're going to
• 6:08
  let them evaluate it themselves. But surely shareholders can see everything going on.
• 6:12
  Totally. So they can see what's going on. But I guess there's more weight if the board is like,
• 6:17
  this is a really great offer you should accept it. Right. You know. So he also went on Piers Morgan
• 6:21
  and said he's he's going to do whatever it takes essentially. I love the asset. It's run by a bunch
• 6:27
  of losers. And it's something that can be a lot more successful. If it was run by an owner that's
• 6:35
  an on entrepreneur that has not just a much larger vision, but knows how to run a business and
• 6:42
  make a lot of money and cares because I have my own money on the line. I reckon he's fueled by a
• 6:48
  no. Do you know what I mean? He's one of those people that you tell me no. I'm going to thrive on
• 6:52
  that. If you think about his previous businesses, he got told no by venture capital to get funding
• 6:58
  for his first business so many times. What was his first business to he? Because they were like,
• 7:03
  well, Amazon delivers pet food. So why do you think you can do it better? Anyway, he built their
• 7:07
  business to nearly, you know, $3.4 billion when it sold. So it was kind of like a big FU to
• 7:13
  get back. So he's just like, I'm going to do it. And he's quite, game start has quietly bought a
• 7:18
  stake. 5% stake. This is actually what I was going to say because I think that firstly, most
• 7:23
  entrepreneurs are found as I imagine a field by now. I feel the same. Yeah. So many times,
• 7:29
  particularly because the finance industry is absolutely not built for women. I mean, think about
• 7:33
  how many times people said you're not going to raise money from investors or it puts fire in your
• 7:37
  belly. I'm going to prove you wrong. So I'm not surprised by this. But yeah, this is really
• 7:42
  interesting. Just the idea that they actually already own a 5% stake. That's a lot. It's more that
• 7:48
  once you've got that 5% stake, you can then call like a special shareholder meeting and you can
• 7:53
  overturn the board. And then you can put in people on the board that will prove the offer.
• 7:59
  So basically he's trying it from all angles. He's doing the takeover. He's bought shares. He's
• 8:04
  going to try and make it happen. I kind of hear for it. And I really hope that he can buy it.
• 8:08
  Yeah. Because eBay is so blah. Like buy it. Do someone call with it. I'm here for it. He also made
• 8:14
  a point when he went to shareholders of eBay calling out the eBay management pay packets that they
• 8:20
  paid a lot. And that's one way to get shareholders on side. Like they hate it when, yeah. So
• 8:27
  the reason to just to explain for anyone that doesn't understand that obviously shareholders are
• 8:32
  kind of funding the business, right? When people put money into a business, whether it's 10 or
• 8:36
  100 million, the money is going to fuel the business to grow. And so a lot of that. And for most
• 8:43
  businesses, a huge amount of spend goes on people. And as soon as people hear someone's being overpaid,
• 8:48
  I mean think about it with Parliament. If you have some president that's being paid a ridiculous
• 8:52
  amount in the country suffering, like the biggest headline you'll see. It's the same thing.
• 8:56
  The line with the risk, and I guess the effort they put in, they've put in to run that business,
• 9:01
  but it is one way to kind of get shareholders up and arms. Now, okay. So oil, we want to show
• 9:07
  quick update on this, right? We talked last week about the 38 days left of oil.
• 9:11
  Yeah. And what's your leisure? What is going on now? We're probably 35 now considering we do this
• 9:17
  podcast weekly. The what we're starting to see now is inflation coming through in the numbers.
• 9:23
  Because remember the war started in April. So we're starting to see April's numbers come through
• 9:28
  now that we're in May. Whereas before we didn't, it was obviously a lag. And in the US,
• 9:34
  inflation's now nearly 4%. And the main driver of that was petrol prices going up nearly 30%.
• 9:41
  Yeah. It's starting to come through. There's headlines in the UK saying, you know,
• 9:46
  brace for a new cost of living crisis, which is just, and I know newspapers have headlines to
• 9:52
  like that to sell newspapers, but it's not good news.
• 9:57
  I think it's to do listen to. No, sorry, I'm so sorry, it's taking a really cute video of me.
• 10:02
  So I think with this, it's kind of similar. How would I explain it? Sorry, your dog is too cute
• 10:09
  right now. She's leaning her like head on my chair and then putting both paws up for me to give her
• 10:15
  a poor massage. Now, the oil situation, you've talked for months and months about the fact that
• 10:20
  this is going to increase inflation. I think it's one of those things where until you see it in
• 10:24
  the numbers or until you start to see things happening, it's the sort of fictional idea. It's
• 10:29
  like global warming. People can't really compute the idea of a future thing happening until they
• 10:34
  start to see proof of it. And I feel like that's exactly what is happening here. Do you feel,
• 10:40
  I was having this conversation with friends in the weekend that I feel like there is just this
• 10:45
  dark cloud, particularly in the UK at the moment of everyone's just talking about the cost of
• 10:52
  shit. I mean, I know a lot of people that are choosing to move out of city centers because
• 10:58
  they can't afford to be in London or in New York or in Auckland or Sydney. The cost of living
• 11:05
  in terms of literally housing is pricing so many people out that weren't priced out before.
• 11:12
  But yeah, I don't know. But it's like, where do you move, right? Because Australia is
• 11:15
  fangling it, New Zealand's fangling it, the US is fangling it, you know, I was looking
• 11:21
  this morning at how I told them the country. No, but I'm like, where are you know, like you have
• 11:25
  to move quite far out to get any reprieve from pricing. Anyway, production markets. So, okay,
• 11:31
  for anyone that doesn't know about production markets, is polymarket a market or are they called
• 11:36
  polymarkets? Okay. Polymarket and Kaleeshie are two of the main platforms. Kaleeshie, Kaleeshie.
• 11:44
  Isn't she like, my milkshake brings other boys? Yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly not, but we're talking
• 11:49
  about here. So, they basically bet on outcomes. So, any thing from election sports whether
• 11:55
  if a celebrity is going to win an Oscar, you know, it's there's been so much chat in the news
• 11:58
  about this. Yes, yeah. And particularly around how do you regulate it? But can you explain the whole
• 12:04
  contracts thing because I don't really understand this piece. Yeah, so this is where there's the gray
• 12:08
  area and we've kind of spoken up this before, but I wanted to dig deeper into like why it has
• 12:12
  got approval and why it has become legal is because when you invest in like a commodity, like say
• 12:19
  you invest in gold or coffee or milk, you don't actually buy, you know, a kg of coffee and they
• 12:26
  deliver it to you and you've bought that. You buy a contract of the price of coffee in say 12
• 12:32
  months or two years. And this is what airlines do with oil, for example. Yes, they buy some of it,
• 12:37
  but they also buy to like lock in a price in the future. It's like energy, isn't it? Yeah, so
• 12:43
  it's like you can do anything like the biggest thing is in commodities. So how these two platforms,
• 12:48
  you know, have dominated in production markets in general is that they are just saying it's exactly
• 12:53
  the same. You're just buying a contract on an outcome instead of a or a price of whatever it is.
• 13:00
  It's the chance of something of something happening. And so if it's like the contract's a price
• 13:05
  like probability. So, you know, if there's a 41% chance of something happening, then it's a 41
• 13:11
  cent contract. That is how like they're kind of framed as these like financial instruments,
• 13:16
  rather than gambling. So say you bought like what's a yes or no production? Is the new road
• 13:23
  peptides lip gloss going to run out within a week of being on sale? Oh, very specific. So you really
• 13:28
  buy one and say you thought yes, it will. And you bought 100 yes shares. Yeah, so for the
• 13:35
  yes contract, not the no contract, the yes contract. Yes, you buy 100 yes shares at 40 cents each.
• 13:41
  So there's a 40% probability that's going to happen that they're going to run out.
• 13:48
  Then you pay 40 dollars. 100 times 40 cents. 40 dollars. Is anyone else getting that?
• 13:55
  No. You buy 100 yes shares at 40 cents each. So you've paid 40 dollars.
• 14:01
  Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then the event occurs. It is you stay do run out. You're like,
• 14:07
  woohoo. Then you receive 100 dollars on top of that 40. So it's like you receive 100 in total.
• 14:15
  So you've made 60. Then you've made 60 dollars profit. If it doesn't happen, you've lost 40.
• 14:21
  Okay. Yeah. But you don't really make a lot. If I put 40 down and then all I get back is
• 14:28
  oh no, I get 100 back. Got you. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. But also multiply that by massive amounts.
• 14:34
  People are putting like crazy amounts down just for context in terms of how fast these prediction
• 14:40
  markets have grown. Last year, there was 1.8 billion going into the platform. Yeah.
• 14:46
  This year, as of April 2026, that's up to 24.2 billion. So that's a huge increase in a really
• 14:54
  short space of time. And when there is that much of an increase, that's when the regulators and
• 14:59
  people go, you know, any product is going absolutely crazy. Like it was crypt over four, you know,
• 15:04
  now it's prediction markets. They're definitely under the microscope. Brazil has banned all
• 15:09
  production markets. They've obviously labeled it as gambling. But over 70% of polymarket users.
• 15:15
  So that's the largest platform. And then Calche is the second largest,
• 15:21
  lose money overall. So to think that you're in the 30% that can make money. And actually,
• 15:28
  when it's like going to the casino, the house always wins. It was one one example is that
• 15:33
  someone on the predicted markets turned $199 to a $21,000 bet by heating a weather sensor
• 15:40
  near a Paris airport with a hairdryer to make the outcome. So people like interfering
• 15:47
  with this. Yeah, I know. I created on how you're making money. There was AI generated rumours
• 15:52
  about Netanyahu's death, which is the Israeli president. There was, yeah, but it was all AI
• 15:59
  generated. And so there was an outcome on that. There's just going crazy now. Oh, yeah. And there
• 16:04
  was a US Special Forces soldier who was indicted and indicted for using classified knowledge
• 16:10
  of a military raid in Venezuela to win over $400,000 on a polymarket. And it's the first criminal
• 16:19
  prediction market case in the US. I think there's going to be so many more of these. I mean,
• 16:24
  the hairdryer example is genius. It's genius, but it's also like if someone's doing that,
• 16:29
  imagine what? Oh, these are the ones that have come to life as well. Like imagine all the other
• 16:33
  roads, the whole peptides thing was a thing. I'd just bet way more than what I would spend
• 16:38
  on buying the entire catalog so that it does sell out and I win all this money.
• 16:48
  Okay, I was about to say we have an exciting IPO happening, but I don't know if this is exciting.
• 16:54
  The reason I found this exciting is because I know the company I use, I was going to say,
• 16:58
  I kind of wanted to keep this as a secret so people can try and guess what we're talking about.
• 17:02
  I use the products. I've fallen off a product. I've injured myself from a product. They're bright green.
• 17:10
  They are a way of getting from A to B. They're good for the environment. They're very good for
• 17:15
  the environment. What else have we got here? They end up in canals. Oh, yes. They've ruined many of
• 17:20
  my clothes because I've had clothes stuck in part of the product. You get sticky hands after
• 17:26
  a year of oil. Lime, which is the bike in London that everyone uses. I mean, I don't know if this
• 17:35
  is super mainstream in other parts of the world yet, but I would say it's particularly common in
• 17:40
  London. I went to a Hackney work which is a small little part of East London that's quite hard
• 17:45
  to get to and I didn't realise there was this enormous constant on with all these young people
• 17:48
  that looked so cool. When you go past 25-year-olds that are cool, they're wearing such awesome
• 17:55
  outfits. I just looked around and it's just seas of line bikes. Basically, they're going through
• 18:00
  an IPO. They're going to be a publicly listed company which means that any of us if we want to
• 18:05
  could buy shares in the business, but it's not really a success story in terms of why they're going
• 18:12
  public, right? No. I think that's why I wanted to highlight it. We do hear a lot of these really
• 18:19
  exciting companies coming to IPO and be public for the first time and they've got these incredible
• 18:23
  growth strategies. But there is also companies that have to go public. They need money, they need
• 18:31
  capital and this is exactly what's limestone. It's interesting because if you zoom out and you hear
• 18:37
  that this company has bikes in over 230 cities, that's a huge amount of the world. There's 29
• 18:44
  countries that it's in and it's had over a billion rides. You would hear those stats and think they
• 18:50
  must be killing it. They must be so successful and they're going public, what a success story,
• 18:56
  but when you look beneath the hood it's actually not that great. They've also got a billion dollars
• 19:00
  of debt that they owe. It's a lot. And about 850 million of that is during the next 12 months,
• 19:07
  so and they just don't have the money to pay that. It's not a success story because if they
• 19:14
  raise that money, they pay off the debt, then they've got a lot more freedom to grow. And I'm sure
• 19:21
  that's kind of the narrative they're going to spend two investors, then they'll be able to continue
• 19:25
  to operate and be even more successful. But it's not really that whole, we're so successful,
• 19:31
  we're going public. By our growth plan, it's a bit more, we either go public or we go under completely.
• 19:38
  It's not that exciting. Although I guess if you look at Uber, who does online?
• 19:44
  They were in debt and not profit making for years and years and years. So you can,
• 19:50
  this can be a way to become quite successful, right? Like a lot of businesses operate in debt,
• 19:55
  and I think that's something that keeps us don't really understand.
• 19:58
  Yes, and they are. The key thing is they've got free cash flow. Free cash flow is a really key
• 20:03
  point because it means that they are generating cash. The company can, it's just the debt side of
• 20:09
  it that is holding them back. But revenue minus expenses, that kind of thing, the operating side
• 20:15
  of the business is still doing really well. They've just got this massive debt they have to pay,
• 20:20
  and it's kind of wearing them down. So once they can raise money, pay that off, operationally,
• 20:26
  the business is doing really doing really well. Revenue is up about 30% last year, so they're not
• 20:31
  burning through cash. They've shown investors they can exist. It's just this debt they took on,
• 20:39
  over the last few years, is now coming to kind of bite them in the ass.
• 20:43
  Do you think the idea that Uber owns line and Uber is such a success story? Do you think that
• 20:50
  that will stand them in quite good stead to go public? And the sense that people look at Uber and
• 20:55
  think, okay, well, they've, they've managed to get out of their debt hole. So we backed line to do
• 21:00
  the same. So Uber wasn't debt. It was cash flow. So it's like when the, obviously, they're,
• 21:06
  their expenses and their, their things they had to pay for were more than the money they were
• 21:10
  bringing in. And that's normal for a lot of tech companies. You get to a point though where you
• 21:15
  become, you know, you're kind of, you're, you're profitable and then you're kind of self-sustaining.
• 21:19
  So Uber owns 10% of line. I actually thought it was the whole announcement. Yes. So they own 10%
• 21:26
  and they've got a really strong partnership there because Uber brings in 14% of lines revenue.
• 21:35
  That's a lot. So if Uber walked away, that's when you'd be like, absolutely not. You know, like
• 21:40
  that is, that is, there's a meaningful dependency there on, on Uber. And if they pulled out,
• 21:47
  they didn't integrate anymore like that would be, that would be hugely hugely disastrous. So it
• 21:52
  will be interesting to see what Uber does when line IPOs, whether they keep their 10% stake or they
• 21:58
  sell as well. If they sold, that would be a big red flag to me, even if they sold some of it,
• 22:02
  because you want them to be incentivized to keep their partnership a lot of partnership.
• 22:08
  Partnership a life. You know, if they don't have skin in the game in, in line, they could just
• 22:14
  cut it at any time. But if they cut it, their 10% stake is going to be impacted too. Do you know what
• 22:19
  I mean? So there's kind of got like double whammy. Yeah. Was that my sense? Was on the back of my
• 22:24
  boyfriend's mobile. Got the day. And we were going past all these lines and I said,
• 22:28
  God, it's a good business, isn't it? Laugh line. I think they're just so, what a genius idea,
• 22:33
  because I use them all the time. And he was like, yeah, but they don't have a huge markup. Like,
• 22:38
  it's like quite hard to make money in terms of the upkeep of those bikes. They are constantly
• 22:44
  breaking down. They're often disgusting in terms of I've had you've recent a flat tire, no seat,
• 22:50
  no pedal, no handle, changing off, like, rubbish everywhere. Like, it's pretty, it's used
• 22:58
  the mind. So there's some kind of psychological like, anyway, what I was thinking was, okay, wow,
• 23:04
  amazing business model. But actually, if you're constantly having to replace these bikes,
• 23:07
  which should not keep surely, they're trying to keep their prices in line with how much it
• 23:12
  costs to get on a bus. It's like a pound 70 or something. They're constantly changing how they're
• 23:17
  doing their their pricing, because last year it was, you know, you get 400 minutes for 35 pounds
• 23:22
  or whatever, now you pay for a ride. Like, they're constantly trying to figure out how to do it. But
• 23:27
  if anyone can do it though, right, it's over. Like, you've got to have scale, I reckon, for these
• 23:32
  bikes. I think the thing that I don't know how they're going to get around this, but I personally
• 23:38
  have had a limestone, many limestones. And I just feel like you see all these people on these
• 23:42
  electric bikes without helmets in one of the busiest cities of the world. It's quite dangerous.
• 23:49
  And I feel like the amount of claims that they're going to get for health insurance for people
• 23:55
  dying on a lime is going to probably take them out of business. Like, I know that's dramatic.
• 23:59
  Yeah. I know I've heard so many stories about that. Yeah. Well, that's why they recently changed
• 24:04
  them in London. They changed the bike because they were getting too too much of what they call
• 24:09
  limelegg, which you've had. Oh my god, I've had a limelegg. Yeah. And there's too many injuries of
• 24:16
  heavy, huge scarf on my lines falling on people's legs and breaking them and injuring them.
• 24:22
  And it's a known thing now. Have you had limelegg? I've not heard the phrase, but I've certainly
• 24:26
  had limelegg. Yeah. Anyway, my point is I do think that this is something that they're going to have
• 24:31
  to look into. If they want to scale and be successful, they have to think about the impacts
• 24:36
  that's going to have on a lot of people. It's funny. We, you know, there's people that go around
• 24:40
  and change the batteries of the bikes to make sure that they're always seen there. Oh, I see them
• 24:43
  everywhere. Oh, they pick up the whole bike all the way here. I see them pick up the whole thing
• 24:46
  and take them away. Anyway, we were at a park the other day and we were, this guy was like changing
• 24:51
  out the batteries and flour man's like, oh mate, well, what do you want for? Of course he does.
• 24:58
  And he had this boot full of batteries. And this guy's like, yeah, he's like, I just go and I
• 25:03
  pick up all these batteries and I go around and change them and find them and say, and how much
• 25:07
  do they pay you? I say, I'm in the market for a new job. It was about two pounds of battery.
• 25:13
  So the more you can do, this guy, the more you can do, the more it's paid. And
• 25:18
  for my man was like, I think I should do that. I was like, you don't have a car. So you've got to
• 25:22
  take out the car higher fee. Like, you're just, I was like, absolutely not. But I love how
• 25:28
  over and in line, but they they use people. Yeah, that maybe have spare time. We want to earn a bit
• 25:37
  who want to earn a bit of extra income. It's quite good. And the whole sustainability element here,
• 25:42
  I think, cannot be ignored. And I think that's why, you know, Uber has used a mobility company. But
• 25:49
  you know, the fact that they are supporting people getting off the roads and biking instead of
• 25:54
  using cars and all of that. I also think, you know, there's a lot of people that work for Uber
• 25:59
  or line. You don't hear reports about them being treated badly or them that, you know,
• 26:05
  whereas if you look at Amazon who have, you know, so many employees and there's so many scary
• 26:09
  stories about how people are treated, I just think that if there's employing that many people,
• 26:14
  whether it's changing batteries, driving the cars, whatever it is, you would think of business
• 26:18
  that big that's employing lots of different contractors that there'd be some stories about things
• 26:22
  coming out, but there's just not. And I think that's hard when you've got so many employees all
• 26:28
  over the world. I think also, I guess they're not employees, though, are that they're contractors.
• 26:31
  Yeah, I also think there has to be some government, I don't know, subsidies or incentives here.
• 26:37
  Like this is a company that's genuinely trying to lower emissions in your country or, you know,
• 26:42
  get more people off the road, etc. reduce congestion. And I just think there has to be some kind of
• 26:47
  subsidies. If Lyme can't make it a success and they're backed by one of the biggest mobility
• 26:50
  companies in the world, we don't know. Okay, coming up after the break, we're going to be
• 26:54
  speaking about the new changes coming in that are going to impact your investments. This is huge,
• 26:58
  this is off the back of what's happening in Australia, but we're going to talk about how this
• 27:02
  and what you can learn from it will impact people all over the world when it comes to how you're
• 27:06
  investing and how much money you're actually making. But first, we have a quick word from today's
• 27:10
  sponsor. A recent study mindful money did found that 50% of New Zealand investors are worried about
• 27:16
  greenwashing. And honestly, I get it. It's really hard to know what to trust these days. And that's
• 27:20
  why we've partnered with Pathfinder Kiwis Everplan because they make ethical investing understandable
• 27:26
  and accessible. The Pathfinder being ethical means avoiding some profitable companies. So, for
• 27:30
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• 27:36
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• 27:40
  Kiwis Everplan and they'll do all the difficult thinking for you about whether a company is ethical
• 27:45
  or not based on their policy. Pathfinder asset management limited is the issue of the Pathfinder
• 27:49
  Kiwis Everplan. A product disclosure statement is available at Pathfinder.kiwis. There has been
• 27:55
  quite a bit going on in Australia. We've had so many people messaging us saying, please
• 27:59
  hand code what's going on. I love that. I love that people are starting to see things sort of
• 28:05
  probably on social media and then they send it to us and I say, please talk about this. There's
• 28:08
  been a lot of non-political, non-financial influences and celebrities in Australia getting
• 28:15
  up and arms about this. Yeah, so we had the Australian budget this week. I know that might sound
• 28:20
  a bit like me. But a budget is actually really important that we pay attention to these. No matter
• 28:26
  what country you're living in, there's always something you can learn. But if it is in your country,
• 28:30
  it's really important. It is an announcement that usually happens once a year. Let me
• 28:34
  be sorry to think about it as your personal finances. You set a budget. What will you spend on?
• 28:39
  What will you not spend on? What will you cut back on? What will you put away and say for a rainy
• 28:44
  day? All of that. That's exactly what a country budget is. It's exactly the same. There's one part
• 28:50
  in the Australian budget that has been focused on this year and that is capital gains tax, which is
• 28:58
  the tax on usually any gain that you make on an investment. You pay capital gains tax on
• 29:05
  very slightly different countries. But back in 1999, Australia introduced a rule that if you hold
• 29:12
  an asset, so property, she is, whatever, for more than a year, you only pay tax. So you only pay
• 29:19
  capital gains tax on 50% of your profit. So half of your profit. The other half, the government
• 29:25
  just ignores. So if you invested in shares and you made $5,000 in gain, so as you're kind of
• 29:33
  profit, you'd only be taxed on two and a half thousand. That's so great. So genius thing. The other
• 29:41
  two and a half thousand you just get to keep. So you're only taxed on 50% of the gain. Is that
• 29:45
  across the board with any investment, property, shares, etc? Gosh, that's so good. So you can think,
• 29:51
  if property investors had held their houses for decades, you're making a couple of mill,
• 29:58
  that's huge. And they only pay income tax or whatever on half of their income. So you may
• 30:04
  3 million on a house and that you'd howard for decades and decades and through certain family
• 30:10
  members, then you only have to pay tax on 1.5 million. I think a really interesting way to think
• 30:16
  about this is in the same way, and I don't know why it took me so long for this to land, but in the
• 30:21
  same way, you pay tax on the money you earn from your job. So there's different tax brackets,
• 30:27
  depending on what amount you're looking at, etc. But the idea is any money that you make, the
• 30:32
  government takes a percentage of to spread and use within their budget to pay for things like
• 30:37
  roads or healthcare or whatever. This is essentially like saying 50% of your income is not taxed.
• 30:45
  Because so many people are making a lot of money. I know that's what I mean. It's almost like
• 30:50
  money makes money, right? Because the people who would have been offended from this is the ones who
• 30:54
  have a lot of money. Because they're like brilliant. I can invest and invest and invest. And only half
• 30:59
  of the amount of money I'm making my income from my investments are getting taxed on. Like amazing.
• 31:04
  So the budget has announced that from July 20th, 2017, so in the next year, that 50% discount.
• 31:13
  So the 50% you don't have to pay capital gains tax on will be replaced by what they're calling
• 31:19
  cost-based indexation. It's essentially it's inflation-injusted and I'm going to explain
• 31:23
  in a second. It just means that will adjust the original purchase price for inflation.
• 31:30
  So you only tax on the real gain. So the profit over and above inflation amount. So I need an
• 31:37
  example. So let's say we have what should we call her? Come up with a fun name, fun name, fun name.
• 31:44
  What about we call her Cecil? Cecilia. Cecilia, gorgeous. Yeah. Cecilia, she's 28. She lives in Melbourne.
• 31:52
  And she has been investing in shares three years ago. I know I can't stop thinking Cecilia.
• 31:57
  Three years ago. Cecilia put $10,000 into an index fund. Yeah. And today it's worth 20,000.
• 32:04
  So she's made $10,000 in profit. Amazing. Now she decides to sell. So she's got
• 32:10
  $20,000 worth of shares and $10,000 that is profit. So under the old rules, she's made $10,000
• 32:16
  profit. She would have only paid income tax on five capital gains tax or five thousand. Yeah,
• 32:21
  exactly. Which is half of the profit. Yes. So under the new rules, that's gone. So we take her
• 32:28
  full 10,000 gain and we adjust it for inflation. So let's say inflation over the last three years
• 32:35
  added about $1,500. So her real gain, so if you take away 15,500, 1,500 from that, her real gain,
• 32:46
  so her kind of ex-inflation gain is 8,500. Okay. So she's tax on that. Oh, shit. So she's actually
• 32:53
  5,000, definitely. It's great if inflation's really high. So say inflation's been super high
• 32:59
  of that three-year period. But she should be honest, it might be in the next five years. But like
• 33:03
  the likelihood of getting up to 50%, you know, I mean, if you held it for over a long period of
• 33:08
  time, it might get there. Yeah. So it's only going to really be in a really high inflation
• 33:14
  environment, would it kind of be anywhere near that 50% discount. Your tax on the whole 100% now,
• 33:19
  but just a little bit is an adjusted inflation, if that makes sense. So if you're an investor in
• 33:22
  Australia, this is not ideal. Yeah. It's definitely your paying more to the government for the
• 33:27
  returns that you're making. Yeah. You're pretty pissed off. And this is not just property.
• 33:31
  This is shares. This is ETFs. This is every asset, really. Who do you think that's going to impact
• 33:36
  the most? Look, they brought it in and the whole preface that the Australian government put it in
• 33:41
  the budget was because they wanted to go after wealthy property investors that had made a lot of
• 33:46
  money over many, many years and sitting on decades of property gains. But they've applied it to all
• 33:52
  assets. So I'm like, hang on, it doesn't actually solve that problem. And younger Australians are
• 33:59
  the ones that are going to be building wealth that are more likely to build wealth in shares, ETFs,
• 34:03
  index funds, because they're kind of forward property. So they're getting penalised. Yeah, I can't
• 34:10
  figure out what they were trying to achieve here. Can we look at the rest of the world? What is going
• 34:16
  on in the UK in relation to capital gains tax? Yep. And just generally, what is standard?
• 34:21
  Is it standard to be taxed on everything or not? Well, the UK's actually got a tougher stance on
• 34:27
  capital gains tax in Australia. So you pay capital gains tax on the full game every time.
• 34:33
  And I guess that's why ISIS are great, because you can put 20,000 into your stocks and shares
• 34:38
  ISIS or your cash ISIS. And those 40 debted. It's less now, isn't it? It's only 12,000 cash.
• 34:43
  Yes, for the cash ISIS. But essentially, that amount for every single person is tax free,
• 34:49
  which I think is quite good because it means that people who are trying to build up wealth
• 34:53
  have the same almost legal as people that have a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. You're giving everyone
• 34:59
  the same kind of starting platform, I guess. And then anything over and above that is tax.
• 35:03
  Which makes, I think that's great. It makes sense. And then in the UK, your main home is
• 35:07
  exempt from capital gains tax. But you know, if you start buying second third homes, they're
• 35:11
  interesting. So and that's the same in Australia, your main home is exempt. In New Zealand?
• 35:18
  No, capital gains tax. There's a bit of a nuance. If you sell the investment property in most
• 35:23
  cases, you know, if you sold it for a million dollars, you get to keep, you know, the full profit.
• 35:27
  That's clear. It is what we call a bright line's test, which is a certain number of years that
• 35:31
  you have to hold the property. Otherwise, you get tax. So that's just to stop the flipping,
• 35:35
  like house appliances. But she is business assets commercial property, like pretty much completely
• 35:40
  untouched. So it's, that is why, you know, we have a lot of wealthy people buying property,
• 35:47
  particular in New Zealand. Not only because it's just such a great country, but because, yeah,
• 35:53
  there's just, there is very little tax. We've got a very attractive tax environment in New Zealand.
• 35:58
  But if we look at that, let's say in five years time, they did bring in capital gains on
• 36:04
  everything. What does it mean for everyone that currently owns it? Did do a lot of people just
• 36:08
  plan on, then they sell it before it comes into play and then, you know, because it's almost,
• 36:12
  I feel in the same way when they raise retirement ages. If you've been planning your whole life
• 36:17
  and you're a tourist hire at 65 and they raise it to 70, there's got to be a grace period, right?
• 36:22
  Yeah, they're usually always with tax changes that we like. Like this one's not coming into for
• 36:27
  another year. So I don't even know what that does in terms of, is there going to be a flood of
• 36:32
  people selling now, selling shares, selling property, you know, before it comes into play.
• 36:38
  But usually there is, yeah, when they raise a retirement age, for example, they say, you know,
• 36:42
  anyone born before ex, you know, like it's not like, it's not like they're going to hit the 64-year-olds
• 36:47
  and be like, oh, you've got to live two years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's hit their hitting the
• 36:51
  kind of the 40-year-olds or the 50-year-olds that have enough time to plan. But it's so hard for
• 36:58
  politicians to change tax or bring in new tax because you're always impacting someone. If you're
• 37:04
  trying to target older generations, like this is what this was supposed to target, but actually
• 37:10
  there was a rule and I might get this wrong, but something to do with any property bought before
• 37:15
  like 1985 or something is exempt or there's, you know, there's some kind of asset. But because,
• 37:21
  and then I've read somewhere that, yes, they're trying to fix like intergenerational unfairness,
• 37:27
  like that was what they highlighted, but they're protecting older Australians because they've got
• 37:34
  the biggest voting power. Like they're the ones that show up and vote the most. So as politicians,
• 37:41
  you've got to be careful that you don't, you know, yes, you can piss off younger Australians,
• 37:45
  very few people turn out to vote in terms of the younger cohort percentage wise versus older
• 37:49
  people. So yeah, it's, there's so much of this going on in the UK at the moment. Everyone's
• 37:55
  really not happy with who's currently in charge and we might have a new UK Prime Minister at
• 38:01
  the time has come down. Yeah, I mean, honestly, the whole, it's really interesting because I would
• 38:04
  normally not be paying attention towards going on, but it's just the idea of you kind of can't
• 38:10
  you know, if someone else goes in and then they go take the country into even more debt, it's not
• 38:15
  I did, you know, I think that seeing stuff like this happen, I guess you don't even really know
• 38:19
  how it's going to impact people until you've given it a few years, but often someone new comes in
• 38:24
  and a few years and then changes it. It's just, yeah, totally. If you bring in exhausting.
• 38:28
  If you bring in a tax change that pisses off enough people, you get booted out and the tax change
• 38:33
  doesn't even make it in because you've lost your job and some other parties in power. So
• 38:40
  and then nobody's going to vote you in if your campaign is to increase taxes. So
• 38:45
  one of the things I think is quite interesting about this is a few, I don't know, this is quite
• 38:50
  controversial, but if you look at China who are obviously making decisions about their entire
• 38:55
  economy in a communist way, you know, it's yeah, but they're also investing in companies in the country
• 39:02
  with a hundred year view. So the decisions that they're making are not short term. While obviously
• 39:08
  there's a lot of complex things that are not ideal when it comes to that kind of set up
• 39:12
  to be building businesses, the economy, making decisions on a long future. The idea of that
• 39:19
  is actually quite clever because I think it's hard though. How do you do that without a dictatorship?
• 39:24
  I know, I know. It's the same with companies, right? You have CEOs that come in for a couple of years
• 39:30
  that want to bring around short term change and then you've got founders that take those long term
• 39:36
  views and it's exactly the same. It would be so amazing if you could find a middle ground between
• 39:40
  not actual communism or dictatorship, but more long term thinking because the stuff that's
• 39:46
  coming out of China in terms of their innovation around what the world needs to see for climate
• 39:50
  changes. Incredible. The stuff they're investing in, but you know, there's obviously all the downside
• 39:54
  of what that comes with. We have a community question, which actually is a really good one.
• 40:01
  Long time listener and lurker, I have a question about hedging. I'm not sure if it has been covered
• 40:07
  or not before. I just can't understand it. Every time I look into it and keep seeing funds or ETF,
• 40:13
  which are hedged versus unhedged, what do they mean? Oh, so hedging is when you're kind of,
• 40:18
  it's kind of like if you're hedging your bets, you know, like you are trying to balance out the
• 40:23
  impact of foreign exchange or like currency impacts. So with ETFs, most ETFs are probably
• 40:31
  investing in US companies, so they'll be in US dollars. So if they're hedged, then that means that
• 40:38
  they are trying to kind of offset the US dollar currency because we're investing from New Zealand
• 40:45
  or from Australia or from the UK. Could you give an example of when some of my hedge? Well,
• 40:49
  sorry. Okay. ETFs, she says, you know, she keeps seeing funds or ETFs which are hedged or unhedged.
• 40:54
  So say I was going to invest in an ETF, the S&P 500 ETF, top 500 companies in US, all of those
• 41:00
  companies are in US dollars because they're listed on US stock exchange. And that ETF was hedged
• 41:07
  to GBP, so to British pound. That means that I don't get the impact of the hedging. I don't
• 41:15
  have to personally take the currency movements. They've kind of done it within the ETF.
• 41:20
  Oh, okay. Does that make sense? So if you're looking at the return on that ETF, you know that
• 41:26
  you're not losing out based on the currency exchange. So if it's a higher return. So but then why?
• 41:33
  So let's say there was a normal S&P 500 ETF that wasn't hedged and then there's one that was
• 41:38
  hedged. Then you should get the impact of if the US, because you're then converting that US dollars
• 41:42
  into into pounds or into New Zealand dollars or into Australian dollars. So if the currency
• 41:48
  moves in different ways and you've got a lot of a lot of your money invested in the ETF, you're
• 41:52
  going to have you're going to have quite a quite an impact. But why what would be a, because surely
• 41:57
  it's just it would net out to be the same, right? In terms of if you aren't hedged and then
• 42:03
  your the currency is like taken into account in terms of the return you get versus one that is
• 42:09
  surely doesn't it just net net in terms of? So the ETF is yes, but the ETF provider is doing
• 42:15
  is doing what we call the hedging. So they're buying kind of future contracts to lock in currency.
• 42:20
  So it doesn't impact. So you could earn more. You could if you took an un hedged or like and
• 42:26
  un you just were like, you know what? I'm just going to like weather the currency impacts and I'm
• 42:32
  not I'm going to buy an un hedged ETF. That means that whatever happens happens in terms of currency,
• 42:39
  you haven't got ETF providers or fund providers and they're trying to offset the impacts. So if
• 42:46
  you're buying an ETF that is hedged or un hedged whatever they're trying to alleviate the impact
• 42:51
  of the currency. So will you pay more for that? Because is it is the is the fee for that going to be
• 42:56
  higher because they're doing more of the work or is it sort of not really? Because ETFs are normally
• 43:02
  really low fees. Like you normally pay locks as computer generators. Yeah. So they'd be
• 43:07
  also be a computer generating that. Right. Those forward contracts to make sure that they're
• 43:11
  locking in the price and like. So I just don't understand why you so would ever be best to just hedge.
• 43:16
  I've got a good example. Okay. It's like airlines. Yeah. So let's say they were like, you know,
• 43:21
  they didn't kind of forward buy any oil and lock in a price. Kind of like a mortgage. You know,
• 43:28
  you're locking in a price for a separate period of time. Yeah. So let's say I was I was an airline
• 43:34
  company and I was like, you know what? Yes, oil is my biggest expense, but you know what?
• 43:39
  Screw it. I'm just going to like weather the movements. Whatever they are. And we're now in this
• 43:44
  environment where oil has gone through the roof. I'm certainly going shit. I should have hedged.
• 43:48
  I should have locked in a forward contract for the price of oil. Yes, when that rolls over,
• 43:54
  then I might jump up to the high part, but at least I've got consistency and I know and I'm not
• 43:58
  like dealing with these volatile movements of this oil price every day. It's kind of like that,
• 44:05
  but with currency. It's a way to try and get a better return because you think like, okay,
• 44:11
  if there's a big movement, maybe I can lock in some of that gain and not be hugely impacted in terms
• 44:18
  of the return, but I'm not a currency. I don't know where the currency is going to go. So for me,
• 44:22
  personally, I'm like, I'm just going to look at what it is. It is what it is kind of that. So annoying
• 44:27
  there's so many things. I think it's one of those things that probably like don't stress about.
• 44:31
  You'll get the gain if the currency falls. It's almost like you get a loss if it rises and then
• 44:40
  you're not converting the US dollars to his lower currency. You know, like you kind of
• 44:45
  unless you really understand currency and how it works, like you're probably not going to,
• 44:49
  you know, I mean, heaps better. And it's also dependent on who is hedging because how good are
• 44:54
  they at hedging? Like that's essentially you're kind of like, if it's a fund, if it's a managed
• 44:59
  fund, you're investing, you know, I could try and hedge as a portfolio manager, but I don't
• 45:04
  if I trust you to hedge it, but you know, like it's more, they've got to be really good and have
• 45:09
  views of all the countries and the movements and their currencies. And we're interested,
• 45:13
  interest rate changes impacts currency a lot, if they're like not expected. And so there's so,
• 45:20
  it's way more economical in terms of taking a view on the currency.
• 45:23
  I'm just going to really wrap this up because I'm so bored of this. Sorry, I'm just like
• 45:29
  hedging, unhidging, not your fault. It's just a kind of a boring thing. I feel like I've got
• 45:33
  there in the, I'm probably talking about it. Sorry, I know you're not boring. My point is this
• 45:36
  whole thing, I'm just like it feels to me complicated for no reason. I think if you, unless you're
• 45:41
  a currency expert, maybe don't worry about the hedging. No, like I think there's options you can
• 45:45
  buy hedged or unhidged. It's kind of like she's saying. So, and I also maybe what we're getting
• 45:50
  here is this is not advice, it's not advice, but like unless you're an expert when it comes to
• 45:55
  understanding whether hedged or unhidged is going to make you better off or you feel confident in
• 46:00
  that, then if you weather the currency exchange, whether it's up or down, it's probably going to
• 46:06
  be similar to dollar cost averaging. If you invest regularly, you're going to be getting stuff
• 46:10
  that's cheaper and stuff that's more expensive, but you know, is that kind of a good... Kind of,
• 46:15
  it's more like... Me, I'm just going to wrap it up and make it simple. I'm obviously not doing
• 46:19
  a very good job of it. Yeah, let's just leave it at that. It's kind of like if you want more
• 46:25
  information on hedging, we can do a... Yeah, do dive on that. There'll probably be about
• 46:31
  two listeners. Yeah. Maybe we'll do a little vote on this episode. If you aren't interested in
• 46:37
  that, let us know. We'll just do a little yes or no. I'm assuming it's going to be a no, but like
• 46:41
  you never know. Oh my god, if that could... Before we wrap up, I do just need to do a little PSA,
• 46:47
  FYI, for anyone that is listening and who is interested in our property podcast. Yes.
• 46:53
  The episode coming out this week is with Holly. She's so great. She's actually a lawyer, but
• 47:00
  this story is not about law. It's about essentially what happened before she knew what she needed
• 47:06
  to protect herself when it comes to buying property or the partner. This is kind of the property
• 47:11
  story from Helen or honesty and it's so juicy. I loved that she was comfortable talking about it
• 47:17
  with us. It happened so long ago that I think she can look back and have hindsight, but she's also
• 47:21
  built her whole business around trying to help other people not ending up in this situation. So
• 47:26
  for anyone that is interested in property, definitely listen this Thursday when that episode comes
• 47:30
  out. Let's play a really short snippet or play just like a little trailer to give you a taste.
• 47:35
  You've had the most outrageous experience with I shouldn't laugh because there's actually nothing
• 47:40
  funny about this story. And we can laugh now. We were literally maybe one month away from finishing.
• 47:46
  Windows were in, walls were painted, kitchen was in. I got a text that day at work for my partner
• 47:51
  being like, is your mum still coming for dinner? And I was like, yeah, it was there and he's like,
• 47:55
  I don't think she should. I was like, okay, that's really weird. I just had this gut feeling.
• 48:00
  I'm nobody saw this coming. I didn't see it coming. I was away for the day with like some girlfriends
• 48:05
  and I got home and one of our friends said, oh, Holly, I don't think we should go in the house.
• 48:10
  Nobody who was meant for me would ever do that to me in my life. So then we face a three year
• 48:16
  court battle over this house. It was one of the most horrific processes I think I've ever been
• 48:20
  through in my life. I've spent tens of thousands on lawyers filing this evidence four years of my
• 48:26
  life for a judge to sit there and look at me and go, I haven't read any of it and it was time to
• 48:31
  move on with my life and realise that there is way more to life than money.
• 48:39
  But have a great week everyone. Why are you laughing? Because I thought you're going to say
• 48:43
  Vic and I was going, thanks. I mean, have a great week. You're too sorry. Have a great week.
• 49:13
  We're also around all week on socials if you're hungry for more curve content and all the links
• 49:17
  are in this podcast store notes. We hope you have a great week and we'll catch you for the next
• 49:21
  episode of the Curve Weekly on mumble.
• 49:31
  Okay, quickly the curve was created to empower and educate you about investing but we are not
• 49:35
  financial advisors. Our platform exists for educational purposes only and it doesn't provide
• 49:40
  personalised investing advice for your individual needs and should not be relied upon to make
• 49:44
  an investment or financial decision and always remember to do your own research before making
• 49:49
  any investment or financial decision. We're here for any knowledge and support you need but
• 49:53
  the final call is always yours and thanks for being here. You got this. Yeah, we know you got this.